Sydney's Lost Western Suburbs Tram Lines
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 03. 2023
- The Western Suburbs Tram Lines were a significant part of the Sydney System. And they were also probably the most complex. Not only did they run in non direct routes due to the topography of the harbour and its bays, but they also crisscrossed each other, changed service patterns over the years and were interconnected with lines from other depots.
The Western Lines, also known as "The Red Lines" after the colour of the destination symbols and also "The George Street Lines" because they ran from Circular Quay, Millers Point and Fort Macquarie down George Street and once past Railway Square the lines then fanned north and west to various destinations.
Note: At 2 mins in the video I did say the lines went north to Lane Cove. I misspoke. I meant to say "north to Ryde". Later versions have edited this comment out.
As always, videos on this channel are not meant to be 100% accurate historical records. Having said this, we do try to ensure they are factually correct by using multiple sources from what we think are credible books, websites, blogs and articles.
It's worth nothing that Sydney's original tramlines didn't use colours (or even route numbers) to denote lines - instead they used the 'termini' of each line as their names. In the route animations we have arbitrarily selected colours to differentiate the lines visually on the maps. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I’m enjoying your content :)
Glad you enjoy it!
Thank you so much for this episode, as it is especially interesting to me as I grew up in Balmain. The reason for the Birchgrove line was to provide transport to the nearby coal mine and later the Morts Dock shipping precinct, which was nearby. The area was also quite densely populated with miners' cottages and terrace houses. Thanks again for this video and indeed the entire series.
Thanks. Makes sense that there must have been more going on there once to warrant building of a tramline. Be good to do a follow up just on the Birchgrove line as it sounds like it has an interesting past.
@BackTracks.Channel Look into the suburb itself as it is very interesting. The Birchgrove Oval was used for Rugby League prior to Leichhardt Oval. The Tasmanian Ferry Terminal was nearby and the dry dock at Mort Bay. The coal mine had a shaft near where Birchgrove Public School is now, which went under the Harbour. There are many reasons for the tram line, but sadly, it was short shunted to the intersection of Darling Street at Balmain Post office long before the line closed in 1958.
@@backtracks.channel Birchgrove Park / Oval is quite historic being the home ground of NSWRL foundation club Balmain Tigers in 1908. The famous Balmain baths, since renamed Dawn Fraser Baths, were also extremely popular with inner west population.
Politicians are always giving us their speil (OKA bullshit) about how well they are treating us today but, quite frankly, yestterday's population had it better with all these trams AND buses.
Thanks for this interesting history about our Sydney trains. You really taking us back in our past. I worked in one cafe at Glebe Pt for almost 3 years and walked there everyday knowing before it has tram line and the first getting run by electricity.
Thanks for posting. Really interesting!
Nicely done. I live on Darling St and my 80+ yo neighbour loves telling me about the days she would ride the counterweight dummy at the end of Darling St as a kid (which sounds perfectly safe)
I know right.. imagine a huge metal object in the middle of a busy road these days...
Sydney had the best tram system in the world!
I love these videos. Gives me something other than politics to talk to my dad about
I'm just old enough to vaguely recall crossing the harbour bridge in a toast rack tram. There was a gust of wind which of course blew through the open seats and all the blokes in their trench coats had to grab their fedoras. Odd how trams ended up being banished because they disrupted car traffic (at a time when this was a blossoming manufacturing industry, a huge Australian success) and now cars are banished from George Street which is reserved exclusively for trams (and Australian car manufacturing died out).
Thanks Tim for the memory. I did read an old Sydney Morning Herald historical article about hats being blown off on approach to Wynyard when trains were passing. they had to cover over the cross passages to stop that. If that was the biggest issue of of the time.. lucky them :)
Great video. I was born in 1960 & grew up in Wareemba, so missed the trams by 2 years, so I fell in love with the buses, eventually driving them between 1999 & 2012.
I've lived in Sydney all my life, but have never been to some of these areas. Time to venture forth, I think.
Enjoying this content, always wanted to know more about the Sydney Tram routes being a Sydneysider myself. Hoping you can cover the Ashfield>Mortlake line at some point - seems an odd/disjointed route compared to the other city routes. Thanks.
Seconded!
Assumed it serviced the mortlake old gas works ?
Thanks. yes would be good to do one the Enfield / Ashfield / Mortlake lines... it was one of the 'isolated' systems like Rockdale.. and yes it had a bit of an odd route as it went south from Ashfield to Enfield then headed back north to cross the railway line at Burwood continuing through Concord to Mortlake and Cabarita.
I live there now, so I'd love to see what I could've had. Loving your videos BTW!
Thanks for making your series it's very interesting how we had a great system that they ripped up now they are re building.
I was on New Canterbury Rd Petersham while they where doing road works and was supprised that the tram tracks are still there.
I was in a pub opposite the old Wallsend Tram station just yesterday, and told a mate all about your channel. Newcastle had quite a large network of trams, but, like Sydney was not well coordinated. Great video today. Lovely integration of old photos with current street views.
P.S. The counterbalance/ funicular thing was fascinating!
I know that counterbalance thing is amazing.. don't 100% know how it did work.. but a lot of engineering to get a tram down 400m of hill. and what a waste to have dug it up.
And yes while researching these videos.. Newcastle trams keep popping up. It's on my future list of lines to cover (but so many to do near where I live first).. have gone on the new Newcastle tram.. but didn't take video as was before I thought of doing BackTracks...
@@backtracks.channel Yes, funiculars use the same principle. In fact old fashioned lifts always used counter weights so that the motor does very little work.
Hi Marty, I’ve really enjoyed watching all your tram videos. A few years ago, I worked at the Tempe bus depot (formerly a tram depot) as a bus driver, and also at Leichhardt depot. I now live in Perth, but when I visit Sydney, which I do regularly, I’m always reminiscing of the old Sydney trams as I love public transport history. There are still so many rosettes, tram tracks and other infrastructure that can be still seen today all over the Sydney city and the inner suburbs. I am looking forward to viewing more videos as soon as u upload them. Love your work. Cheers 👍
Thanks Craig for your share. It's great that the Tempe Depot building is pretty much as it was. But I read the ANZAC memorial has moved to Sans Souci.. I need to go and see that.
I’m not too sure where the location of the memorial is today. It was still at the Tempe depot when I was there last back in 2018. Tempe depot still remains very original from its old tram days.
The wide road in these places, especially Abbotsford on the way to the car ferry, always through there was a reason. The counter weight system at Balmain that's pretty much a funicular right? Been a great series.
The 428 bus basically went along the old Canterbury line from the CBD. Addison road has that classic tarred over central strip.
I'm positive trams ran on Crystal St Petersham. If you type in 27 Crystal St on Google maps you can see where the center of the concrete road has been replaced. I'm 70 so I was only 6 when trams stopped but I seem to recall them there.
Hi Peter, think you are on the money! Yes according to maps I have seen, trams ran from Parramatta Road down Crystal St to Petersham and onto Canterbury.
They definitely did.
I also vaguely remember seeing trams running in Fort Street Petersham, as my grandparents lived there at the time and I regularly visited them with my parents.
Yes they did between Crystal St and Railway St.. great memory...
@@backtracks.channel ah, interesting, in my previous post I asked about the Crystal Street line. Still there in the 1950s.
Some lines closed very early like the tram to the town square outside Erskineville station via Burren Street in 1933 or the one that terminated very close to Harry's Cafe De Wheels in 1936.
Great content and presentation. So much goes into making a legible and watchable video like this!
Yes my daughter helps.. (she is a wiz on the editing) but does take time... but I am enjoying it... I am learning as well about the trams in Sydney.. I thought I knew a lot but i didn't know the half of it before researching it more...
Also, the Ryde line was extended to West Ryde station in 1914.
Hi Marty, I have just found your channel and have subscribed. I live in Melbourne these days, but I grew up in Marrickville in Sydney. I remember the Sydney trams very well and was sad to see them go in 1961. I remember on one occasion riding a toast-rack tram in Illawarra Road in Marrickville with my mum and the conductor was knocked off the tram. Fortunately, he wasn't seriously injured and wound up sitting on the roof of the car that had knocked him, by driving past just a bit too close to the tram. I also remember riding trams across the Harbour Bridge from Platforms 1 & 2 at Wynyard, on to Milson's Point tram station and on past there to the northern suburbs. Anyway, wishing you the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Great memory.. I read somewhere, but can't recall now where that on average a conductor was getting knocked or of injured every day on the tram network in the 1930s and that the union (rightly so) was promoting the R and R1 class trams.
And for all the subscribers in Sydney.. I just heard today the there is a VIVID light show in the old tram tunnels at Wynyard from last week of May. I have bought tix already.. May see you then. But in any case a great chance to see these tunnels that are mostly closed now to public
Hey Marty, love your videos , great to see someone talk about the trams that used to be in Sydney, would love to see something on the 'Pansy' tram of Campbelltown to Camden (I know it's was primary a standard gauge line but it did use a pair of Baldwin steam motors for Initial service before realising that the power of the trams was insufficient for the grades of the line).
Thanks TB.. I have not ever heard of this.. thanks! Great to know there is so much heritage rail / tram to cover..
@@backtracks.channel And don't forget some of the now scenic tramways that started out as industrial ones e.g. Katoomba scenic rail / tramway.
I'm pumped to see your video about the Southern lines (the part of Sydney that I live in)
I grew up on the south side of Sydney as well.. but not as many trams down that way.. Cronulla, Dolls Point, Bexley and Sans Souci all had lines.. would be good to do videos on these one day.
This is a superb channel!!
Hey thanks. I don't have a heap of followers - as it's a pretty niche topic - but I enjoy making the videos as I learn a heap of history I didn't know before I start making each one.. So great to get nice feedback. Thanks.
sandgroper here: maybe consider doing smth on the WA rural passenger trains? they're really fascinating to read about, towns thatre basically dead nowadays used to have tens of thousands of people in the goldfields or Pilbara. would be interesting to talk abt imo
Thanks AS.. great to hear this history.. love to do it.. but my channel is about me being able to do before and after shots and knowing about it (enough anyway) to make a video.. you may need to "wait a while"
I was waiting for the line to Dulwich Hill, via Marrickville road and terminated at the junction of New Canterbury Rd. But like the rest, that line was also closed down sadly. And replaced by the 426 bus.
Thank BM, yes the line of the main system were pretty interlinked.. So I thought I would over the Dulwich Hill line in the South Western Lines (if when I make it :) ).. I believe it was serviced from Tempe and / or Newtown at the time.. But good to hear any other history?
Marty, you set of videos on Sydneys tram network is extensive and well put together. However you don't seem to have mentiones ths western extension to Dulwich Hill?, or have I missed it in one of your other videos? Well done, many Sydneysiders have no idea of the extent of the system or even that there were trolley bus sections.
Good point. Thanks. The video did skip over Dulwich Hill. It was on the line between Canterbury and Balmain. I have not done enough research yet on that part of the system, but I thought I could cover Dulwich Hill when I do a video on the South Western Lines that ran out of Newtown / Tempe depots (plus do more on Canterbury and Hurlstone Pk).
I always loved that ugly little counterweight tram, great video as always! Excited for what's next!
Ha, could you imagine how many drivers would crash into it these days
Your videos are excellent. Enough detail to be accessible to the general audience. The “story line” is clear and the animation really helpful. Comparing “now and then” images is great and your voice over is clear and really easy to listen to. I live at the intersection of Henson street and Junction Rd at Summer Hill but being born in 1958 means I missed seeing them. My Dad’s first job in Sydney around 1956 was in the Small Parcels office in Railway Square - a building you pointed out in the video. Worked for the GPO etc for 40 years.
Thanks William, yes you have it spot on.. trying to balance appealing to general transport enthusiasts and trainspotters.. and yes I only like to report on places I have visited first hand to film.. that may restrict videos I can make as I can't go everywhere (apparently there 2,300 tram systems now and in past) but its a good encouragement for me to see as many as I can.
I guess the good thing is that these areas are services by ferries and buses plus lightrail is coming back.
Incredibly interesting & i am not even a tram fan in general. You have 1 new subscriber.
Welcome aboard!
Sydney used to be a gorgeous city. Man has it gone downhill.
Ha, agree.. but one thing I can say is now we have so many more trees, gardens then 50 years ago.. that is good.. (but bad if you are backtracks and trying to take THEN and NOW photos :)
3:26 Ultimo Power Station is today the *Powerhouse Museum* and well worth a visit when you come to Sydney. I've been there a few times myself.
Yes it's a great museum. Love that it has 'full sized' trams, trains and one of the original Central Station destination boards there...
@@backtracks.channel Yeah, that destination sign is *HUMUNGOUS!* It sits up in a prominent position in the transport section of the museum. I want to get down there again some time this year. By the way, you may note I've subscribed to your channel. Good stuff you've got there.
@@top40researcher31 What's that got to do with trams?
@@neilforbes416 nothing really
I used to live on Smith st. Summer Hill in the early fifties and even though the tram service had ceased, the tram lines and overhead wiring still remained. The line ran from Summer Hill station to Hurlstone Park up Prospect road, where it terminated. I'm not totally sure when the service ceased, probably in the early fifties I think.
I think it was probably in 1958 when that line closed... but good to hear any other people who may have a more accurate closing date.
@@backtracks.channel I remember when I first moved to Summer Hill. It was early 1953 and even though the lines and overhead wiring was there, no trams operated on that line. My old uncle told me (I was only 10 at the time) that they had ceases the previous year. I remember that the wiring was the same as the trains.
The old 1881 Gladesville Bridge replaced many years before ,the original route NW and continuing North which was situated at the end of Great North Road at Abbotsford, Parramatta River. There was a Fort situated ther Called Bedlam because
of the congestion at that point waiting for a punt/ferry to cross the river, up a road to Victoria Rd (then called Great Northern Road) which continued along to Ryde Road onto Blaxland Road a continue North to where ever
Love the story behind the name Bedlam. Thanks for the share.
Another great episode. Hope you do the lines for the Liverpool/Camden and Campeltown area one day.
Thanks for watching. Yes that would be good to do agree.. . need read up about these lines and then take a day trip to do filming one day.. not a bad way to spend a Sunday :)
Thank you for all your videos. Gladstone Park really has the vibe of a tramway terminus, although it is hard to put your finger on it exactly.
Do you know why the cross suburban service from canterbury to darling streen wharf came into existence.?
Agree.. after starting to make these videos I am getting a bit of a '6th sense' of streets / locals that seem wider or longer than they need be for today... and agree Gladstone Park is one of them (Nth Bondi is another).. Specifically why Canterbury to Darling Wharf.. no not sure.. but unlike today there are some cross city bus routes that cut across the main city out lines just to service the non CBD related services..
Really well presented, thanks very much. While it finished in the 1930s, the extension from Ryde to Ryde station (now West Ryde) is interesting because trams were moved on the railway to or from St Leonards station via Hornsby so they could move to the North Shore lines. Also are you counting the Leichhardt line elsewhere as well as the Enfield system to Mortlake and Cabarita?
thanks for the share.. yes I went up there to film that small extension.. but I couldn't recognised the current road layout.. so will need another trip. And thanks for the info on tram transfers. I didn't know that. Something I could include in a video done on the Lane Cove line that passed St Leonards. and I should have included in the North Sydney lines video... the more we learn and share.. great stuff.
Very interesting. Thank you. There was a line going up Crystal Street Petersham/Stanmore. So I’m wondering if that’s a south-westerly extension of the inner west line that went out from Leichhardt to Abbotsford etc.
Thanks for the good question. I just did a bit of investigation and it looks like that was part of the cross suburban line that ran from Gladstone Park in Balmain through to Canterbury railway station. While it was sort of the in the South West, I believe it was operated as part of the Wester Suburbs lines out of the Rozelle Depot (and not Newtown or Tempe as other South West lines were operated). Thanks for watching. Cheers.
@@backtracks.channel thank you - and thank you for a wonderful series. Born in 1950, I have fond childhood memories of the trams, in the eastern suburbs, and particularly the ride up from Bondi Beach to the city. A neighbour in Stanmore remembered hopping off the tram in Crystal Street - hence my question.
Great memories. Thanks. I am working on a video on both the Bondi Lines (out of Waverley Depot) and also one on the South Western Lines.. I have just been trying to find historical books on both the Systems (as the internet doesn't have enough facts and I try to get it as accurate as I can).. I have both books now so now just need the time to edit them... promise by end of 2024!
Hi Marty, I don't know if you noticed but around the corner of Glebe Point Rd & Bridge Rd there are tram track in the road surface. I have no idea if they're original or not but cool none the less.
Thanks for the heads up. I believe they are the original tracks apparently. Not many bits of track showing anywhere these days :(
Will you cover the isolated steam lines ?
I would like to.. but I am learning a lot about the lines before I make a video so a lot of electric lines to cover off first.. and one thing about the steam lines is that there is not many images or video of them and info on line.. so makes it a bit harder to make a video on them.. but definitely the Cronulla and the Bexley lines are on the wish list...
The Sydney Tramway System actually had its very last trip in 1961.
Thanks Neil. Yes a shame we even had to say the system ever closed... My thought if the trams had lasted in some form by the late 60's we'd still have them today. As attitudes about public transport and cost of oil / cars / congestion changed in the late 60's.
@@backtracks.channel Though Sydney could've, and *should've* retained their tram network, the same *CANNOT* be said of Newcastle, particularly the lines from Parnell Place, west along Scott Street, and Hunter Street, from Telford Street west to just past Perkins Street. It would've been smarter to terminate the trams into Newcastle at Darby Street, and have them start from Darby Street corner(but not go along Darby Street as the street is too narrow between Hunter Street and Laman Street, or it was in those days), out to the suburbs. This is where Hunter Street is at its widest, with four traffic lanes(two in each direction, east or west) and the trams could occupy and share the inner lanes with "rubber-tyred" vehicles. Parnell Place should *NEVER* have been a tram layover, the tram depot should've been exclusively at Stewart Avenue, Hamilton. The section of Scott Street east of Perkins Street is narrow, having only enough room for two lanes of traffic and two parking lanes either side. Slow-moving trams would impede traffic flow. We're seeing that now with these pathetic dinky-toy trams sharing the road space along Scott Street, from Pacific Street west to Bolton Street. The trams are slow and if you're caught behind one.... And there are sections of Hunter Street that have lost parking spaces due to sections of the street where these pathetic trams have taken the centre lanes of the street all to themselves. It was a *TOTAL BRAIN-FART* to reintroduce trams to a city where a tramway was an ill-fit in the first place(1923 to 1950 is when the last electric trams ran in Newcastle).
@neilforbes416 fast forward sixty two years later with a newer type
Hey BackTracks, I was wondering if you have a business email of some kind. I found a map of the tram network back in 1921, but there are a few bits and pieces that’s a bit confusing. I was wondering if you could make heads or tails on it?
Hi TMD8, thanks for the note... backtracks.channel@gmail.com. just saying I am an amateur tram enthusiast like most of us... Not an expert like someone such as John Cowper. But would love to have a look at it and chat more.
@@backtracks.channel heyo! Sorry for not replying earlier, I was busy with school and I didn’t see this reply until now. I’ll email you the details in the morning!
My mum grew up at Abbotsford Point. She had many memories of the trams. Sadly she suffered from motion sickness so, some memories good and some not. 🔱🏳🌈
I never got to ride on Sydney trams but I can imagine they were pretty rocky so I can appreciate your mum didn’t enjoy it.
Btw I’ve lived in Sydney much of my life but I hadn’t been out to this part of Sydney until I made this video. What a great part of Sydney. and a place that would be great to have light rail running there now.
So what happened to them?
Did you say the western lines reached to Lane Cove?
Thanks. No Lane Cove was only reached by the North Sydney lines. I may have misspoke in the video by saying Lane Cove when I meant Ryde - as they were both the north west extent of their respective systems and I have got them mixed up.
what tram line do you think would be the most beneficial to sydney today?
What a great question.. Lets get the discussion going... having started to get to know some of the original lines pre 1961.. even if the system survived I couldn't see some line surviving (judging on the Melbourne Systym today). So to kick of the discussion.. I think the Ryde (to West Ryde station) would be a key line in today's Sydney Transport Network.
been thinking about this a bit more... and i think today light rail would best serve to complement the existing heavy rail / metro rail... has to be pretty heavy passenger corridors... Like I just had occasion to drive much of the Enfield line today and that basically connected suburbs north and south of firstly Ashfield and Burwood train stations. The new Parramatta light rail basically delivers against this.
Glebe point rd
Why not discuss the Canterbury line and Burwood depot?
Thanks for the suggestion. yes these videos are just a hobby for me so would love to get around eventually to the Enfield systems which went from Ashfield then to Burwood and onto Mortlake / Cabarita and Canterbury was part of the South Western lines operating out of the Newtown and Tempe depots and at times from the Rozelle depot. That was a really long line so lots of history there. Thanks!
Enfield depot and lines please!
yes been reading up on that isolated system. Could be a good one to do.
The idiot government scraps the trams they were in the pocket of the bus industry no pollution with the tram good people mover i remember riding on them and seeing them destroyed by fire at the end
If only 'vested interests' were a thing of the past... one thing I think we can agree that transparency in government decision making is much better now.. and I think that hardly any public transport systems have been cut in the last decade or so... even regional rail.. Ok Newcastle was cut back.. but then the tram was reinstated... anyway a good debate eh...
👍👍👍👍💯👏🍺