The disturbing facts about FAKE and SUBSTANDARD cables - UGLY Twin and Earth, light weight flex
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 07. 2024
- The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - coming to an electrical installation near you.
Are all cables created equal? From the outside, they may look similar but we find some shocking discoveries as we peel away the insulation on twin and earth cable (T&E) and artic flexible cables.
How can you trust the cables you use in electrical installations. In this video, you'll witness some of the tricks disreputable cable manufacturers use to achieve a lower price.
See the difference between the UK manufactured Basec approved cable from Doncaster Cables and an unbranded Basec cable - the country of origin unknown.
đ TIMESTAMPS đ
======================
00:00 Fake and sub-standard electrical cables
00:23 Why is this cable so lightweight
04:11 Okay it's we think it's aluminium and not copper
04:50 Check the number of strands might be missing
05:05 The cost of copper - vs - aluminium
05:30 Sub-standard Twin & Earth cable (T&E)
06:01 High-quality cable should be easy to strip
08:51 Comparing resistance of sub-standard T&E cable
11:00 Checking the copper conductor diameter
13:00 Does the sub-standard cable run hotter
15:20 How to tell if your cable is sub-standard
16:34 Work with a trusted manufacturer
======================
================================
đSUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL
eFIXX is here to help electrician's, electrical contractors, building services engineers and electrical apprentices. Watching our videos, you'll discover new products, explore new applications and find answers to your technical questions. So if you've been on the tools for years or just starting your electrical journey, then please subscribe. We'll help you stay up to date with the latest regulations and developments in the electrical industry.
czcams.com/users/efixx?sub_con...
================================
đș NEW TO THE EFIXX CHANNEL
Watch our essential videos playlist
âą NEW TO eFIXX - ESSENTI...
================================
đ„ CATCH UP ON THE LATEST VIDEOS
czcams.com/users/efixxvideo...
================================
đ ELECTRICIANS' TOOL REVIEWS
âą Electricians' tool rev...
================================
đ§Č EFIXX NEWSLETTER
Sign up to find out about our live events, competitions and product giveaways.
www.efixx.co.uk/sign-up
================================
đ APPRENTICE HUB
If you're an electrical apprentice, retraining as an electrician or looking to refresh your knowledge, then please check out our apprentice hub. It contains thousands of multiple-choice questions to help prepare for electrical installation exams.
www.efixx.co.uk/apprentice-hub
=================================
SOCIAL
â INSTAGRAM - See our behind the scenes action.
efixx_insta...
â LINKEDIN - Latest electrical news and trending content.
/ efixx
==================================
â This content on this channel is for electrical professionals.â
==================================
đŠ Presented by
Gary Hayers - Editor eFIXX
Gordon Routledge CEng MIET - Technology Editor eFIXX
#efixx #morepower #cables - VÄda a technologie
Australian here - we had Chinese cables that crumbled and became fire hazards after a few years. The cable was made by Infiniti cables - who decided to go bankrupt immediately after they were caught. They deliberately stripped the dimensions of the conductors, and also stripped out the UV and stability compounds from the plastic. End result - 2 people dead and about 30 significant house fires. There's still thousands of Km out there installed - and zero warranty protection from the company.
And they were only $38 cheaper than Olex - the Doncaster cables of Australia.
Wow - tragic lessons learned!
Yes that happened here a few years back, if the authorities don't keep a watch out it will happen again, I have seen similar short cuts in other industries, plumbing pipes (PVC) , star pickets, Form board, Insulation for homes, the list goes on, we all know who the Installers are don't we, they are Importing low grade products from their own country to undercut local trades and industries. This has to stop, peoples lives are at risk.
Iâve seen a similar problem with fiber optic cables, we use a lot of a specific metal free buried cable, and we got a really good deal on an equivalent cable, name brand as well, so somebody bought and subsequently buried 50 km of it. When it came time to splice them however, I started getting calls from the field techs that wanted to have a word with whoever bought that junk. Now, in fiber optic cables you basically get two kinds, separate tubes for 12 fibers each, or one big tube with bundles of fibers. In the center tube cables, thereâs a yarn wrapped around the bundles color coding the different bundles (fibers are 0.25 mm thick, and only color coded up to 12, so this is quite important). Well, this new cheap and cheerful cable had two bundles, but to save money, they only yarned the second bundle, and to save further, the used so little yarn that you had to peel back the cable 5 meters before you could find the yarn and separate the bundles. All to save on whatâs essentially sewing thread. But hey, we saved maybe 10 cents per meter on that deal, itâs not like the fiber guys charge us 65 euros an hour to strip back cable.
Great stuff. I had contractors install data cable into a large retail unit. 6KM of it. I was there at the termination and testing. The testers couldn't work out why it was failing. I grabbed one of the boxes of "CAT5e" and sliced the cable with a knife... copper clad aluminium. They had to rewire the whole store.
Great comment đ
Clad makes it sound âsubstantialâ - but really itâs only microns thick.
Ouch
Copper coated is probably a better description!
@@leewinters606 It was sold as CCA so the wholesaler was not at fault. The purchaser at the contractor went for the cheapest option not understanding the impact.
I have seen this big time in appliance testing. I have been caught out at home with a water distiller bought from eBay with aluminium wire in kettle lead. The element failed burnt out the earth cable so when I grabbed the unit it ended up with burns and bad shock. Being an electrician NEVER had an incident close to this. Well it teaches me to test the crap I buy from eBay or similar sources even new.
Had some fake blue arctic flex before, it was as rigid as SWA! Nearly impossible to bend or strip, YET the inside was real copper... so they had skimped big big time on the insulation / plastic.. yet used real copper... the mind boggles
Iâve used Doncaster cable since 2011. Iâve had numerous problems stripping it over the years. In 2019, I had another poor batch, I telephoned Doncaster cables technical, who fobbed me off. I was really disappointed with their reply, now I just use whatever the supplier has in stock. Itâs got plenty of powder stripping is great.
Same here with Doncaster cables, and IDH, even to the point where the different insulations have melted together, and as usual the problem was only discovered after the walls were fully plastered.
Wow! First comment. đ
I am German electrican and buy only good cables made in Germany here in Germany. It is same UK I think, have marking the producer with fully adress, with fully marker of VDE/BS, size, kind of cable, CE-Marker, some better cable have date of birth and lengh-marker of a 1 km roll. Same of every electric cable, e.g. LAN, WAN, telephone, broadband, signal. Of course on non-electric cables (e.g. fiber) or water pipes too.
I see the crack often at products with build in cables (in example lamps) from chinese companies. If it build in HK, Thailand, or Viet Nam it is follow very often the rules of european countries.
So forbidden the chinese government produced export goods to resell in china (execpt HK/Macao) since around the 80's.
I hate it that the EU (and the UK) allowed private imports from non-reseller from electric cables without tests from TĂV (or other test lab).
In Germany the electricans talked it "Baumarktkabel" (DIY-market cable) but every Aldi, Lidl, OBI, Hornbach, Tesco, etc. let test all things before sell it. They loose her face if they sell crack - see at the fire of the skyscraper at the outside wall.
Date of birth on the cable - very good đ
@@efixx Do you know it self with cable for outside or specially places e.g. sauna. It can go older only for stay around and wait for resell or put on wall. Only wiskey go better if it very old - but never rubber, plastic, copper, aso.
You got me wondering. I'm going to check the Romex I used to add an outlet in the attic for a n air compressor. It's been a while since I bought it, but, I'm pretty sure I bought genuine SouthWire. I remember it stripped nice with my Romex tool.
I was wondering why the cable was stuck together when I was stripping it...substandard.
Stripping some 3C&E Prysmian today and it's absolutely crap, wouldn't have thought it with Big P but my god it's dire.
The very first resistance test seems a little inconclusive, since it's different by only one count, might just be somewhere on the margin of device sensitivity, would have been much improved with twice the length. The thermal test however on the same cables is super conclusive - not only is the electrical conductivity of copper somewhat higher, but thermal as well, and you got an excellent measurement margin on there.
That's insane. Guess people just like a bargain which turns out to be a false economy.
Really useful video. I have occasionally rolled out a new drum and measured it after unexpectedly running short, but with nothing to show for it. Mostly with red FP200. And there is one brand that is a bugger to strip - it's like fighting with a Rotweiler. Now I know what extra checks I can do to back up my suspicions.
I do like that phrase "If you're proud of it you put your name on it".
Really enjoyed this oneđ
Fan out those fine strands and hold them in a flame. Copper and aluminum melt/burn very different, and with fine strands all you need is a lighter.
Great tip - we will give that a try
Fake network cables are everywhere. I even found one bundled with mit glass fiber modem from the ISP. It had tiny CCA conductors and was marked with a good AWG.
Fake cable now i'am worried, will be checking the two drums I have in my shed. Nice one guys thank you
Back in the early 2000âs LSF twin was the absolute pits to strip. There will be tons of installations where the outer sheath is split down the middle and goes right up to the terminal because it was welded to the insulation of the cores. Not had to use it in a while but it still gives me nightmares!
Quality content and thank you for sharing your knowledge it means a lot.
đ
I had a couple of rolls of 2.5mm Prysmian cable from screw fix, came to 2nd fix and it wouldnât strip, the answer from screw fix and Prysmian direct was take it back to screw fix for an exchange. They couldnât understand it was plastered in walls in 100 pieces đ
Do you have a link for that T&E stripping tool? Thanks.
That was very interesting đ. I do remember year's ago bicc doing alcumic cable in PVC/PVC and MI cable . Because of the copper shortage.
Inside the GDR it was typical to use alu cables then they not have a copper mine. Same many countries use in the both war times specially after they loose the colonies with copper mines too.
But now we have 2020 and all houses should be new or sell on market again - okay exept the palace and castle of the rich. But do you can buy world-wide copper and copper cables. Do you should check every product! đ
So should no house more have old cables inside UK! And our electricans make a gold nose of change the old alu cables to new copper cables on place of the ex-GDR.
Ya buy cheap, ya get cheap...
Speaking of which, did Gary get that 'tache from wish?? đ
Iâve personally used a cable that was that hard to strip, massive job new build 6 blocks of 14 storey apartments.
I was only a subbie then, cable was branded something like âKablo somethingâ
Had a 3 core and earth cable from a wholesaler with the cores occasionally twisted up inside the sheath.
Gorgeous comprehensive video. Funny, on point and educative.
Thanks
We all love Gaz đđ
Brilliant video. Thanks a lot Yorkshire chuckle bros
Quite worrying that fake cables could be sold and installed around houses đł
Have had dodgy 2.5 before didnt find out it was dodgy untill i came to do second fixđ, i always strip a metre of the wire now before i use it to save any future ball ache, have caught a few dodgy rolls by doing this over the years.
#TopTip đ
Where did you buy the dodgy cable?
@@electricery cant remember now it was back when i had started working for myself, i think it was from cef? I've found a solid independant supplier now though so ive not had any more dodgy wires, i used to just bounce around suppliers but i found its better to build a good working relationship with a select few suppliers
@@tarodchaoslord thanks for reply, I was wondering if you bought from reputable supplier or âget from anywhere maybe onlineâ . I would have thought CEF would have genuine source of supply. Good tip to strip some first, not something I have ever deliberately done but will from now on
@@electricery no problem, i dont think that cef was knowingly selling dodgy wire it could have been a one off i think ive only come across 3-4 instances of dodgy wire its mostly been a mix of big reputable suppliers and independants, ive never had a problem returning them for a good roll though. I would never buy wire online, thats asking for problems.
I work a lot with stranded flex cables of all sorts. Shielded, mixed and some cables with up to 48 cores. I would love to see some videos for us industrial guys with hints, tips and tooling.
On it - we are starting soon with some big stuff for panel builders.
@@efixx magic, panel builders,
I have a bit of a rookie question: Does a cheaper cable with higher resistivity generate more power losses? so if we save on cable few pounds at the beginning that means that over the years we will pay much more by slighty higher energy bills?
Yes it would result in higher losses, so you pay đ° in the longer term.
If it's aluminium, are you able to suitably derate the the current rating and still use the cable? Or just double up on the cross-sectional area. I know aluminium has issues with mechanical creep and spring loaded terminals are preferred to screw terminals. In the past when I've used crappy copper coated aluminium cable, I've twisted the strands together and tinned with a bit of solder(this is very common in the electronics trade to prevent corrosion). I have found the copper coating, on the copper clad aluminium turn black! (could be a galvanic reaction due to dissimilar metals). Unfortunately due to the cost of copper rising this might have to be an option in the future.đ„đ€
As Sponsored by Doncaster Cables đđđ
Just for comparison, a 2.5mm square cable equates to a diameter of approx 1.78mm. So the substandard cable line/neutral conductors are only 2.14mm square! Would have to consider de-rating that I reckon!
Perhaps in the colder climates the higher resistance wires can be marketed as secondary in-wall heating. Probably more expensive and less efficient than other forms of heating, though.
It's not just electricals. Marginal short cutting at every part of a process may be within acceptable tolerance for each element but, taken together, the effects on the whole can be disastrous but never measured - until done in retrospect after the disaster. Assuming each element being acceptable means the whole is good can be very misleading about the whole. I used to see this in social care investigations, including child protection.
Had a 25mm 4 core armoured cable that i couldnt get the bedding off.. hours taking it off with a Stanley and taped up the mess. From A proper wholesaler and i bet alot of this cable is sold by big name companies
Had about 30 4mm and 6mm 3 core armoured cables to strip and terminate into the board with same issue. Had the boss on the case wondering why it took me 3 day to do it!!! Should not have bought cheap cable in the first place.
Great video efixx team , sub standard products are a major concern in the industry but the BSI and HSE do not seem interested .
No money in it, unlike giving different tickets to jobs that don't need it, does not highlight or get rid of the cowboys,
Like gold cards, cscs, whatever, while the undermarket keeps undercutting the legit market, pay tax, etc,
Like the electric meter installers that are agency staff, told step by step what to do, like ikea flow diagram charts, then left to carry on with it, yeah yeah, bollocks, it happens, a guy in the pub I know well, has a job like that for a few months, eleven fifty an hour, he worked in a admin office for like twenty years, then go that gig, he was asking me question, like can I get a shock and die, etc, he left as he could not do the meters fast enough, the number increased, over time, he had around seven mins to do one, circa 2017,
I once bought 100m T+E for a rewire from a small independent wholesalers, unbranded.... After doing first fix and second fix with everything plastered and painted etc did IR test and got 20Mohms. Split the cable in half (Was a ring final), got about 30Mohms on both legs, even tested from CU to first socket and was about 70Mohms.
I know its acceptable but for me those readings on a brand new circuit that you expect will have to last possibly 50-60yrs I was not happy, effectively had to rewire the place again. I was not trying to save money on the cable... Lesson learnt always just buy Prysmian cable from screwfix now, not the cheapest but never had a problem with it and always plenty available from my local screwfix which is only 50yrds from my house.
Wow - painful đŁ experience
50 yrs from your house? I hope you meant yards
@@barrybritcher well well, yer all over you! Voc forum, vouk group... Im sure ya stalkin me đ
Great video, Wheres the link for the stripping tool. Thanks
Here it is - looks like they have an offer on ATM - idealindustriesemea.selz.com
Thanks guys, your videos are great and helpful.
are Rists cables still around used a lot of it years ago
Can someone tell me how a 1.5mmÂČ cable is supposed to feel. I have 2 different cables both pure copper but one is much stiffer than the other one and the cores, including the CPC appear to be thick. I don't suppose they would make it thicker than it should be so what's going on? Is the other cable smaller than it should be?
Look on the side of the cable to find the manufacturers details and perhaps ask them - could be an interesting trail.
Maybe one is Low Smoke or LS.
Oooooow yes. I Definitely remember the time when the college had a pallet of 1.5, 2.5, 4 & 6mm T+E. Someone at the factory must of fallen asleep at the wheel because there wasn't ANY french chalk as far as the eye could see (if you get my drift đ). Pretty much EVERYONE (myself included) refused to use it as no matter what you did. You just couldn't strip it without cutting your finger off.
I've got NO IDEA where they got that cable from but they couldn't even spell "Electric" correctly đ€Šđ»ââïž I mean how the duck can someone not even spell the word "Electric" right!? đ€·đ»ââïž
I can sorta understand where the college is coming from, as they only have a little bit of money which needs to be spread out very thinly âșïž
I'm sorry for going into a rant. But thinking back, there HAVE BEEN a couple of jobs where I've had to use the supplied cable and it only had the tiniest little trace, of French chalk in it. I did have a cheeky wee chat with the customer n told them that cable was cheap for a reason. It did show the number of core's and how many were in there. But if they couldn't even spell the word "Electric" correctly.
Then I really haven't got much hope that the size of the cable printed on, is probably just some numbers they really liked đ FFS đ€Šđ»ââïž
Iâve tended to use Prysmian cable over the years.
I bought two extension cords off Amazon both of them were supposedly UL listed, the application I was using them for required me to cut the end off both of them one was copper and one was copper clad. guess which one didn't come with a UL sticker on it?
Itâs definitely buyer beware in the marketplace!
@@efixx Yeah itâs just sad you have to buy an extra and cut it apart to find out.
Great demonstration, and I will continue to digress.... feel free to ignore it.
Thankfully for what I was using them for itâs a short distance and low draw circuit, but I was going to keep everything rated at 12AWG 20A as much as I could. code frowns upon having extension cords tied into fixed wiring.
What I did with them I do not recommend unless you know what youâre doing. Anti-DIYer warning.
In my basement there are small windows that donât get much light and during my rewire I separated half the basement lights out to a junction that drops to a plug to go into a UPS. I also put a socket up near the ceiling Above the panel for the cable internet booster, antenna booster and that drops down on the other cord.
I have one UPS running lights and one running the router I mean rooter.
This way both the Internet stays up and the basement lights stay on during a power outage, itâs great having emergency lighting by the electrical panel (cu) itâll be even better when I switch from florescence to LEDs.
I had a cable that was difficult to strip just like in your video. It was 1.5mm T+E from Screwfix and it was branded Prysmian. Normally a brand I trust.
I've noticed Screwfix Prysmian is usually good but can vary with bad batches. Same with other Screwfix brands. My local electrical supplier is better more consistently, especially their plastic conduit, but only discovered them after having a lot of work done on our house
Quick way to know if you are being diddled on a reel is to weigh the cable reel, you should know what a good 1m of 1.5 / 2.5 weighs so makes it easy to work out and yes i would reject a reel if it was less then what i paid for, end of day its money out your pocket.
Great Content as Always. Is the a standard stating you cant terminate Flex Cable within a CU. Not something i have heard before?
Not that I've ever heard of. If it existed, such a regulation would not permit singles in conduit to be terminated into a distribution board.
In a previous video Gaz you mentioned that the mains supply cable is a concentric cable which has an aluminium line conductor and an outer copper that is the combined earth and neutral conductor, so why is the flex in this video a problem? Or have missed something? Surly if aluminium is ok for the DNO supply cables then itâs ok for other cables.
Fantastic video as always đđâ€ïž
Aluminium isn't inherently 'bad'. The issue is aluminium being used to substitute copper but pretending to still be copper.
As long as correct cross-section cable is used for the load tou could wire it in 100% aluminium if you wanted. The Grid side of distribution (so the extra-high, and ultra-high transmission lines on pylons and undersea DC interconnects) use aluminium because its just so much lighter than copper so less sagging between pylons as the cable heats up and droops due to gravity etc).
You could design the entire UK regs to use 100% aluminium cables perfectly fine if you wanted, but it might not make any real difference price wise over the long term.
Are you familiar with Ozler cable (made in Turkey) on ebay described as 6243Y but significantly cheaper than most retailers for both T&E and 3C&E
As youâll have seen in this video - if itâs significantly cheaper - there is usually a reason - does the eBay âofferâ mention BASEC approved?
@@efixx Just checked on ebay and it does not state BASEC, but having bought 100m two weeks ago I have now checked the reel and there is a BASEC sticker on the reel and indeed BASEC is embedded in the grey outer sheath... My suspicion was raised because when I stripped the outer sheath it also took the sheath off the brown conductor (but blue remained in tact) Hmmm ..bit of a quandry, cheap made in Turkey but is BASEC...
Of course there could only be 90m on the reel :-) Great video btw
It was Basec standard on the day they did the factory audit and everyone was on best behaviour.
A GBU on MF connectors would be good; Wago, Ideal, those ones you pick up from Toolstation with little to no info on them and of course China's Finest.
Interesting information, when working on reasonable size jobs, usually the cable provide is not well known brands, made in Turkey & really you find names I would recognise that I have used & seen in the wholesaler or Screwfix or Toolstation
Another interesting video
Thanks đ
I remember BICC cables also coloured strands in flex cable. O was told the colours were to identify the manufacturer of the cable.
The best cable ....or was it đ€
I checked the area of the wires. Doncaster 2.46 mm2, other 2.14 mm2. More than 10% difference.
The 1.63mm diameter cable corresponds to US 14AWG wire diameter and is the size used in US domestic wiring. Perhaps someone (in China perhaps?) is manufacturing the same wire for US 15A cable and UK 2.5mm2 cables.
i had some 10mm twin just like that once the grey stayed on haha
Great informative vid some poon tash that lol
Am I seeing things or is Gaz sporting some mutton chops? Channeling the inner Lemmy there Gaz? Interesting video.
đ #movember đŠŸ
@@efixx would explain it. I rock a chin crittee all year so đ€Ł Beards are for life,not just for Movember đ
Iâll be stripping and checking the cables in the merchant next before I buy the cable, sure they wonât mind
How well does copper coated aluminium last in the system ? - Galvanic reaction ?
This is my favorite comment
Beware of cheap tripple extention.
should have included a length of proper all copper in this testing.
Well damn now I have to worry about electric cable thank you for the heads up
Knowledge is power
Wording about Doncaster Cable, I would say they guarantee 100M of USABLE cable!
Super video. Just in time for me installing an EV charger! Cables need to be to spec.!
Great video. Doncaster and Prysmian, they're the two brands I've been using for my rewiring job.
That prysmian cable is pure crap used it ones never again Screwfix shite
When i worked at a (now bought-out) electro-technical wholesaler back in the early 2000's, they too sold various branded and unbranded cable. The one that used to be perilli (now Prysmian) was the most popular. But the unbranded was very popular, i'm sure it came in from China. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole myself though. Stick with a well known Brand, that way you've covered your a**e.
Had this before from main suppliers aswell lack of chaulk I think it was rubbish 30 downlights oh dear ;(
Currently 2nd fixing 200 new build flats and been using prysmian low smoke twin and earth and went itâs cold itâs incredible hard to strip. Also some of the batches of cables has a yellow tinge of the colour to them and itâs impossible to strip with automatic strippers.
LS cable is a challenge to work with at the best of times.
Its easy get the earth and rag it up
I have seen a picture online of a prysmian cable that had 6mm2 written on the jacket and 4mm2 on the inner conductors.
moustache competition who is going to win
#movember great work Gaz and the other guy đŠŸđđ
Gaz đ€Ł
You know what they say:
"Buy cheap...............
Yeah we associate cheap will be in better and throw no care of that cheap can also mean cheaply made.
Hi I have been having a problem with 2.5mm twin and earth cable bought at screwfix the name on the cable is PRYSMIAN this cable is dated 2022 I also have a piece of the same make and size but made in 2021 this cable has no problem with it.
Prysmian is a well known brand - take it back and complain.
@@efixx Hi I did take it back and the guy said he would replace it but as I had the same problem two weeks before and I needed the cable to finish the job I just asked him to report it, it just took a bit more time to strip the cable, he was saying the bigger rolls seem to have no problems?
Worse cable Iâve ever had to deal with is 50mm 5 core ho7 on flight simulator.
Is aluminum (or aluminium) copper disguised wire really that common over there? Here in America it's not completely unheard of but I've never run into anything I've ever really had doubts about. Or is it mostly when buying online? I really only get my wire from direct suppliers or reputable hardware stores.
Subscribed also.
No, but it happens and you should always double check both the material and the diameter of the cable to make sure it makes sense, sometimes you get cables that are actually smaller in diameter but do double-thick isolation to mask it, so on the outside it looks exactly the same, until you actually strip them and notice there's far less copper, be paranoid and trust nobody some people seem to be deliberately trying to start house fires sadly
The fake copper wires are a definite safety hazard. A few extension cords i had were like that, copper plated aluminum, spot welded to brass contacts. đ©đ”đ”đ”
Doncaster? Is that a bloke that casts dons?
Atom Kablo...
El bueno, el malo y el feo. Saludos
Apologies, Resistance is specified as a maximum but can be related to a minimum diameter..
I guess Aluminium could be used for house cables . Copper is probably used because of tradition and because it solders , but in house wireing there's no soldering . Not only is it much cheaper per tonne , but it's less dense ( Al 2.7 , Cu 8.9 ) so the mass would be one third that of copper for same size wire . Aluminium has only 61% conductivity of copper so 2mm2 copper would be replaced by 3mm2 for same load bearing , then you would be paying ONE SEVENTH the cost for the metal involved
Not impossible at all. Just needs to be appropriately rated. Issue here isn't aluminium in of itself, more that its being used to substitute copper whilst still pretending to BE copper. Hence all the copper clad aluminium wires are totally undersized for the UK wiring regs which are written with the safety and ratings math revolving around the assumption of 100% copper conductors.
How ductile is an all aluminium cable compared to copper ( ie gow many flexs before strands break due to fatigue etc?)?
Aluminium is used heavily on the HV distribution side simply because of its physical weight characteristics compared to similar sized copper cables
There's nothing wrong, inherently, with all Aluminium wiring, it would be potentially cheaper ( although price would rise due to the extra demand, copper prices would fall etc..), but its just a case of all regs being adjusted to accommodate it.
@@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you Ductility, how prone to dreakage after repeated bending is an issue , I think aluminium is not so good in this department , (multi strand overcomes this ); but ring main cable , once positioned does not move . I don't think this extra usage would increase price per tonne much . But this changeover will likely not happen , the existing (copper) wire manufacturers won't want it , and politicians don't understand these things . It could realistically alow ring main cable to be a third of it's present price.
What about Chinesium cables, made with the metal of the day?
Metal of the day đ
I'm a bit late to the party with this video. But are you sure that the "fake silver cable" isn't Copper Cladded Aluminium cable? It is a proper cable and I have (unfortunately) had to use it a few times many years ago. If my memory serves me correctly there is a section in the Cable Size Calculation Tables at the back of the Regs for Copper Cladded Aluminium. You should retry your experiment with the proper Regs taken into consideration.
You can get CCA - but this cable was sold as pure copper and found in a dangerous condition within a live installation.
@@efixx My apologies. I thought you said in the video that it had been found on a building site and sent in to you. If it is CCA and is being sold as copper cable then it is definitely at fault. That's why I always try to buy from reputable electrical wholesalers.
@@Alan_AB It can be zinc or steel in real bad chinesium cables. Silvery wire insides don't mean aluminum.
@@randacnam7321 In a lot of places it does make a difference. Here in the U.K. the Wiring Regulations BS7671 state that the current carrying conductors can only be made of copper or aluminium. There are very rare occasions when copper coated aluminium can be used but these are mostly obsolete now.
In the U.K. zinc or steel would never be used in fixed wiring cables. They would never be allowed to pass Building Control Regulations otherwise.
@@Alan_AB We treat copper clad aluminum the same as straight aluminum wire current capacity wise.
Copper clad steel/zinc is in bottom of the barrel chinesium garbage that has never been within a country mile of a test lab.
We do use copper clad steel in some utility applications (the copper cladding being a decent proportion of the conductor cross sectional area) and for antennas where the RF electricity is only on the surface of the conductor anyway.
Thank goodness its not copper claded steel. I haven't seen anything like that in power cables, but see it all the time in coax. Have to pay attention not to use the CCS cable and make sure its 100% pure copper.
Copper clad steel - a new one for us to watch out for.
Had a lot of cw1308 telecoms cable that was copper clad steel, one of the the big wholesalers got scammed in the late 2000s. Causes terrible broadband problems.
@@smd-tech There is/was a telecoms cable called drop wire, copper clad steel I believe designed as the aerial 'drop' wire to the subscribers house. The steel was for strength.
copper clad steel is standard in RG-6 cable (the RG-6 standard defines it as such) because they are for RF applications, where the signal only travels outside the conductor (skin effect). Making it pure copper has no benefit, in fact power RF cables are hollow tubes instead of a solid conductor.
@@83hjf Pure copper does have benefits, and is required when powering downstream equipment via the coax as many things are done today that way. Because CCS and even CCA (copper clad aluminum) have higher resistance they can get hotter over time when remotely powering devices. The CCS is harder to bend, and CCA can fracture easier as well. Granted I haven't seen any CCS in power cable, its just something to keep an eye out. Yeah I have worked with 6" copper hard line at radio stations that use 2.5" copper pipe center conductor. They use hard drawn copper outer and inner pipe with PTFE disk insulators between then. If I recall correctly it was rated for about 8,000kw at 20kv if I recall correctly, again as you mentioned its at RF frequencies not, 50 or 60 hertz. đđ
Those twin+E are not the same cross section unless its an optical illusion.
I have seen copper that appears to be bumpy not smooth you can see it with your own eyes after itâs stripped
This is why I cringe so much at SY cable - even more so when someone tries to justify it on some basis that you can follow âmanufacturers instructionsâ.
Donât get me wrong, some manufacturers make excellent SY cable. Which is why it should only be used if the design BOM specifies the manufacturer and not merely the type of cable. But many wholesalers sell generic stuff and good luck getting a datasheet.
Ultimately the trick with any cable is to know who made it - and to know that if it fails and burns down your customers property then theyâve got a UK director who will be stood next to you in the dock.
The math proves the physics. 50% more resistance = 50% more heat, which also reduces efficiency and increases consumption per watt/hour. Those paying the electricity bills should certainly be concerned.
They really didn't use a long enough length of the flex for the resistance test. Yes the change in displayed value was 50% but it was only one "unit in last place", so it could have been anything from a tiny change to a near doubling.
Aluminum weighs a third of what copper weighs so you should be able to tell the difference on the weight.
Is the unbranded cable sold by tlc ???
We didnât buy the cable and itâs almost impossible to find out itâs origin.
A lesson learned. I had no idea, but I should have known better. Iâm wondering if the higher resistant cable leads to higher electric bills. I will be more wary in future and stick to trusted brands like Doncaster.
Why are they quicker to striptease twin ?
would thicker aluminium cable be the same as copper and still be cheaper
In theory yes - but then itâs much trickier to work with bigger reels etc
Yes, Central and Eastern Europe is full of it and electrical probelms are relatively rare.
I really doubt it's aluminium. While scratching it should break. I guess it's steel. I've seen many fake steel cables in copper layer but never aluminum ones.
Another test for aluminium stranded cable is to fray it and use a lighter - the aluminium burns!
So does copper and any other metal!
cca and ccs are at s**t. cables rots we use for doing power gates .alarm, cw1308 bt cable ,cat 5. have started using cat copper cores.
So the ugly cable wastes energy. I wonder over the lifetime of the installation how much extra that costs.
No harm in buying cheap, but issue is they thinking getting the same item but they not.
I am for Quality at reasonable price, my guess business people only think profits that could get away. Mind you the + and - give these peopleâs going - to get profits which is a sad world.
I been past the year of British stuff usual over engineering a bit, nowadays with the money people coming in moving the mark. Just like German car what they used to be and now...
*The top three cable manufacturers are for T&E are?*
Prysmian and Doncaster Cabkes are the only UK producers. The rest is imported and branded from manufacturers in Turkey, India or China.
@@efixx Pitacs?
@@stupidlogic2987 Pitacs (and their other brand "Time") supply cable from various manufacturers. All of the T&E I have had from Pitacs is Turkish (usually Seval Kablo). Flexes are often Turkish but sometimes Hong Kong or China (especially rubber flex).
Yeah,my " Honda " 5 kw generator,made of red painted Aluminium ,% 100 looking out like coper.Fake.I have melted it with a small lighter,in seconds.
When I quote a job from my wholesaler I alway spec my cable, I get the job then ask for the cable quoted there always a crying match that they canât get the cable because itâs not what they have in stock (usually vomite was cable cause it cheap). Iâd love a wholesaler that keeps the good brand stock on the shelf for guys that actually want the put the good cable
OK
You didn't mention the purity of the copper, which might be a major factor in resistance.
Chinese probably
Or
Russian
What brand are those Strips