Noah Lugeons has Gone Super Saiyan! | Dean - North Carolina | Talk Heathen 03.02
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- čas přidán 16. 01. 2019
- Talk Heathen 03.02 for January 13, 2018 with Eric Murphy & Noah Lugeons.
Call the show on Sundays 1:00-2:00pm CDT: 1-512-686-0279
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The podcast may be found at:
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
CONTACTS & SOCIAL MEDIA
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Twitter:
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NOTES
TalkHeathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
Copyright © 2017 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
"Hey Dean how you doing?"
"Well it depends on your definition of the word 'doing'. In the ancient Greek for example, the word "doing" meant "in the process of", or "in action". So if I'm in the action of DOING something, I supposed I could be "doing" as you say in the English language. However, most people in America aren't using this word properly. And there needs to be proper education..."
Dean Meadows lmao!!
Jordan Peterson fanclub
@@jackylaibach2351 Yeah, J. Peterson did/does this often too. I get most of what he's saying, he's saying a lot of sensible & reasonable stuff, but whenever his positions are actually contested he goes to word salad.
🤣 🤣 🤣
Dean: The original Greek definition of "faith" is different than how it's used today.
Hosts: Okay but that doesn't really matter because we're talking about the modern English definition.
Dean: Okay but the original Greek definition of "faith" is different than how it's used today.
Hosts: Okay but that doesn't really matter because we're talking about the modern English definition.
Dean: Okay but-
Dean explained many times that he thinks the modern definition is not quite right and that even most Christians are not understanding it quite right. The way to solve this is to go on with the definition the caller proposes. Anthony Magnabosco does this all the time. And since Dean's definition was all about evidence, go on to discuss evidence then, that's the important thing anyway.
@@leslieviljoen it's hard to, "go with the definition the caller proposes" when the caller's entire purpose was just the definition of the word faith. His entire goal in the conversation was literally to reach that starting point.
@@MrZaborskii yeah. I guess you could then say "thanks for your input!" and go to the next caller. I object to hosts freaking out though.
@@leslieviljoen that's a really good point. This wasn't my favorite Talk Heathen episode. You've definitely helped me figure out why.
@@MrZaborskii this was my favorite. I already knew why.
The good book is a good book because the good book says it is a good book
Even if people have mistranslated or misunderstood what "faith" actually means in the Bible, it still doesn't get us any closer to proving that any gods exist.
How long was this call? Then tell us what "faith" actually means and if you think "faith" is the wrong word then what is the word or the definition of it. Otherwise you are just wasting time by saying "God is real and people should believe in God because of Siqu-mack" btw I have no ability to define Siqu-mack nor can anyone else so let us just agree that God is real.
Exactly. There was no need to dispute his desired translation. If they had gone ahead and used it, it would be easy to show exactly how that still leads nowhere. THAT would have been a lot more interesting.
Also, at 20:02, nice to see some balls displayed on this show.
Noah: “YOU NOT DEALING WITH THE AVERAGE ATHEIST PODCASTER. I HAVE ACHIEVED THE LEGEND!”
He has!
Noah's Podcasts are now bookmarked permanently on my phone. Laughing as I walk home from work every night this week 🤘
Drew Woznicki Noah’s shows are great.
I think dean wants the word faith to mean truth, in his deluded mind.
I would say deceived mind. Remember, these people are usually indoctrinated
He doesn’t have evidence for his claims, so he appears to be trying to define some into being.
He wants it to mean truth in Greek and then retcon all modern believers to actually be meaning that version of the word.
His "translation" seems to be a "Deus ex machina" for his story board.
But you see, the word disaster means bad star, so the evening news is saying all those fires are from astrology.
LOL!!!!
Lol Im surprised by this
I love when they cling on some minutiae like translation or definitions as if that's the whole cause of friction. No man, it's because if you describe faith accurately, people who have it look stupid
21:22 - "My goodness! I'm seeing it live" - awesome.
"If you had evidence you wouldn't need faith."
-Matt Dillahunty
1,000 internet points to anyone who edits this with DBZ music and Super Saiyan aura around Noah
Well, I happen to be Greek. Dude was obviously playing a word game that he doesn't even understand because he has no actual idea of the greek language. In greek, the word faith and belief have the exact same translation, which is "πίστη" and this is where the confusion occurs. This could be "I believe i am a human" or "I believe a god exists", it's the exact same word for both situations. The term "belief without evidence"(as in faith) is not really a thing in Greece, because of the strong convictions religious people have here. In Greek, if you wanted to say that someone believes without evidence, you would call them a generic term like "παραπλανημένος", which translates to "misled". But faith in Greek never means "believe without evidence", the word just doesn't translate to that. There's just no difference in faith and belief in Greek, it's all in the context. They both come down to the verb "πιστεύω", which in daily spoken language is the exact translation of the word "believe".
Noah is on fire . I'm jelly of that gorgeous hair.
The Bible is the perfect, complete, literal Word of God...
until it isn't.
What He REALLY means is...
@@talkaboutitdean
... and then dishonestly and disingenuously trying to imply that *_THAT'S_* what today's Christians _really_ mean whenever they use the word?
That's what it looked like.
@@talkaboutitdean, no. The Greek definition is IRRELEVANT to the discussion. Take for instance the original usage of the word "atheist". Romans used it to mean anyone who didn't believe in THEIR gods, not anyone who didn't believe in ANY gods. We're not going to fuck around and try to argue that today's atheists only lack a belief in the Greco-Roman pantheon, are we? No, because that would be pointless and dishonest. So we're going to argue what TODAY'S theists and atheists mean using TODAY'S definitions.
We're NOT fucking doing this, chief.
@@talkaboutitdean think about it. If someone called in saying " I'm gay" and you spent any time at all saying "gay means happy, see look at the root word and how it's been used blah blah" then you can't have a conversation. So if someone says " by faith i mean xyz" then you go with their definition , EVEN IF IT'S INCORRECT IN YOUR EYES.
....He's got a basket ready to do some cherry picking.
@@stickiedmin6508 "trying to imply that THAT'S what today's Christians really mean whenever they use the word?"
Nope. He's claiming that's what they SHOULD mean, He claims christians should use the word "faith" to mean "knowledge" despite the word not meaning that. It also would leave English without any word to mean what faith means....
In the book of Eric it says the righteous live without faith.
Eric:
We could have done so much more for this guy.
This episode was a perfect opportunity to explore WHY he wanted a different definition of the word “faith” and get into his emotional needs. There was a goldmine of psychology right there!
For example: after conceding to his definition, you could ask him what the major difference was. That’s the heart of the matter. Ask him point-blank why he likes his definition better, and get him to say it succinctly. Give him a 20 word cut-off.
Lead him to admit, or if he doesn’t then prompt with leading questions to spell out, the obvious: HIS definition FEELS better to him, because it puts his belief on a more solid foundation, sounding less naive and superstitious. He wants to convince himself that he’s not a fool, that he can keep his faith but still be called ‘rational’, and he needs your validation to do that. We needed to get him to admit all of that, or at least get the information out there.
Please please please please pretty please invite as a guest co-host some day, a psychologist or psychiatrist or some kind of counsellor who can pick up on these issues and confront them.
If we can help callers to understand what is is that they’re searching for, we can help them fill an unrequited need they never realized they had! Self-awareness and the joy of learning will boost confidence and improve lives!
P. B Amygdala I agree. The host getting emotional and causing Dean of being dishonest was a huge missed opportunity. Dean was not wrong or dishonest in his point. He was just barking at the wrong tree.
YOu're under the misconception that they would listen. Their programming is designed to shut down their mental capacity when they start doubting what they've been told. If Dean has been raised this way since birth, it's basically a genetic defect at this point, with little to no way out of it for him. So the only thing you can do is point out where his thinking is flawed, out in the open, so that at lease someone somewhere would see that what he believes is flawed to the point of doubt coming up regardless of what they've been raised with. If you can't help the individual, sometimes you wind up helping the bystander.
They have Anthony Magnabosco on sometimes and he's perfect at this. He gets his interlocutor to define their terms and then just uses them without batting an eye.
The definition of frustration =Dean!
Unlike Matt, it takes a lot to make Noah mad, but when he gets mad, he really gets mad, LOL
You might say he goes even further beyond.
I beg to differ. Noah lives off his anger.
Its very amusing to me that theists are now trying to redefine the word faith . Its almost as if its now recognised to not be a good thing.
@@talkaboutitdean *at the time of translation surely.
But as they said, the discussion was not about what the Christian document states.
It was about the general use of the word faith.
Noah wasn't trying to redefine faith. He literally looked up the meaning of it live.
The caller was trying to change what the discussion was about.
The Bible is an authority in defining the word "faith" as much as it's an authority in defining the word "marriage": not at all.
Actually, the word 'faith' hardly accurs in the Old Testament at all. The word 'belief' is the one used. One site I found had to couple the two words 'faith' _and_ 'belief' together to get a word count of 501 instances (5th in NT) Faith is a very late word to use - _NOT_ Greek, but Latin and Old French to English: Fides -> Feid -> Faith.
Bloody well spoken Noah! Let him have it 😂
Who was it again, who said: *_"It's called faith, cause it isn't knowledge'_* ?
That would be Christopher Hitchens.
I like when they point out the etymology of the Greek word for "faith", when the Jesus guy should have spoken Aramaic and was a jew...
Except Greek was a more universally spoken/written language in those areas at that time. The timeframe in which the documents that would eventually become the New Testament wasn't very long after the end of the Hellenistic Age in the Middle East and Egypt, after all. Rome only just conquered Egypt circa 30 BCE. The various documents that eventually became the New Testament were written in Greek so as to be able to be understandable to the highest number of people. It was also the language scholars used in those areas at the time, not unlike how scholars in Europe wrote many of their works in Latin for centuries.
@@notbot2648
Okay, Mr. Akhchsually. But were any of those Greek speaking fucks Jesus the alleged dying/resurrecting godman? If not, it doesn't matter what they spoke. If this religion was real, it wouldn't matter what some lying sack of shit like Paul said in any language. Only the suicide cult leader's words would matter, in the language he spoke.
Omg, this was one of the most frustrating things I had to endure!
I want to have a conversation, but we need to amend all the definitions you have been taught so that they line up with my revised versions making me more correct.
Scathing Atheist diatribe brought me here. I'd previously stopped this clip early and yelled and swore at my cat.
I'm very happy angry Noah showed up!
"Ridiculous ideas, by definition, can expect to be ridiculed."
Super Saiyan starts around 20:50
I'm with Noah on this one.
I think he wanted to change peoples view on the word faith so that when people read the Bible and see someone had 'faith', he wants people to think they had 'knowledge from a reliable source' instead. Basically, make it look like the people in the Bible had good reason to believe, as if that is a good reason for others to believe, and ignore the fact that no evidence is offered in the Bible.
Sorry Dean, you can't try to retroactively add credibility into the Bible by making it sound like the characters were somehow well informed (yet never recorded the knowledge themselves). It doesn't matter how convinced they were.
Just started this video, read the title, and saw Noah for the first time. If he goes super saiyan, that's gonna be some even more epic hair.
Eric's gonna lose an eye...
I keep coming back to this video to rewatch 20:44 - 21:36. Oh, Noah.
It's the best part in the video.
Noah looks like an 80s heavy metal rock star, LOL
Or at least the bassist
@@catnerdadrian7601 He speaks in full sentences, so he's probably not the bassist.
Keld Frøslev shots fired😂
@@LightHalcyon It's not like any bass players are ever going to read this.
As a bass player I can say...not wrong lol
23 minutes of nonsense from Dean
Yo do you like Aphex Twin and Boards of Canada type music
Dean came to play a game of chess. Then he spent half an hour trying to argue that his choice of colored pawns translated to "I win the game". Then declared it a draw and left...
The caller is trying to be slick, controlling the definition, rather than addressing the usage. Which always exposes the utter futility of faith as tool for knowledge.
The caller is introducing or using the reification fallacy, as well as the etymological fallacy (subtype of genetic fallacy).
He wants to avoid the explicit definition of faith, which was given IN the bible, because he knows it's inherently misological and undermines his argument and desire to make christianity sound reasonable/rational instead of being predicated on a foundation of gullibility -- and I can understand (at least) that motivation.
You people have a very lengthy vocabulary to say we just don't believe because we haven't seen or heard anything to convince us of God. So your game plan is to live out your lives till the end and that's it. Perhaps man will a cure for aging and you will live forever. Is that your long term hope or plan?
@J w incorrect and a dishonest portrayal of how Matt addresses definitions.
@@johnhaslett6714 what kind of nonsense statement is this? There is no evidence of a god so we don't believe. Where does curing aging come Into it?
@@Tezwah my point is you pass from this world. Then what? Your life could pass any hour, day, or minute. That was my point. Is your consciousness going to just float around forever or is that simply the end of story? Just curious.
Good for you Noah; you calling him out for ignoring you and repeating his talking point ad nauseum needed to be done.
Fun fact: Theism used to have a second definition in the Oxford Dictionary:
Third
edition, 1933, Oxford: Clarendon Press, sv.
Theism is a “morbid condition” “caused by excessive tea-drinking”
So by his "logic", he doesn't believe in God, he just really likes tea. :)
I got a tea bag for him.
(Office...Micheal Scott) "The dictionary defines wedding as the fusing of two metals."
😂😂😂
Well that's bullshit I drink tea every day! But it would explain why so many are theists in the south. Tea is everywhere
Wait... I like tea......
oh no.... 😱😂
Green Tea
21:00 ... and we have lift off!
So faith is justified knowledge. Just don't ask him to justify it.
The right question to this guy would have been: "Why are you telling to us that christians are using the wrong definition of faith? Go talk to them, convince them!"
The hermeneutics of the Marvel cinematic universe.
Every time I use the word "faith" I explain, or expound via diatribe, to the person, i.e. human, known as homo sapiens, that when I use the word "faith", I am actually referring to shoes. So, that when someone tells me you have to have "faith" in God I get confused and have to ask them to clarify, "What the hell, why do you have God taking care of your shoes"?
Then they look at me like I'm crazy and stop preaching their bullshit at me.
Then they go into a loop about shoes and soles. XD
Gave me flashbacks of that call with Ron and Matt lol
You could tell Noah was getting ready to pounce 😊 oh the restraint...
I honestly cracked up when Noah went berzerk! :D
Find you someone who looks at you the way Eric looks at Noah when he’s on an angry rant.
I'm a huge fan of the GAM podcast, and this is honestly not at all what I pictured Noah looking like, but I love it so much.
Wow... That was just so sad. I was cringing the whole time, begging him to understand.
Oh my God I'm going to set myself on fire
OMG he is just wasting time.
Christian filibustering. He needs that goalpost moved.
No, he isn't.
Dean was trying to give his definition of faith, based on the original Greek text (which I assume he holds truer than the English translations), which the hosts asked for, but he wasn't being allowed to give, because.....reasons.
The hosts wasted everyone's time with this one and I'm both a fan of the show and an ardent atheist.
And for a point of reference, check out 13.35 in the video. Dean hit the nail on the head.
@@IanD-ut4dy "based on the original greek text, which the host asked for, but he wasnt being allowed to"
Bullshit.
Literally only 2:10 in, they let him give the definition, and then again at 19:10
The word 'Faith' in the New Testament comes late - from 3rd & 4th century mainly. _NOT_ Greek, but Latin to Old French (Middle Ages) and hence into English:- Fides -> Feid -> Faith.
I always wonder how callers like Dean can be so intellectually dishonest and still actually believe in the ideas they're espousing. Are they really able to fool themselves so thoroughly?
Ive been watching atheist experience since day 1 or so...I can't believe just how awesome the speaker's mics sound now. The audio engineering department there needs a HUGE round of applause! Unbelievable improvement over the years. What mics are those BTW?
The word faith is clearly defined in the Bible. Says "Faith is..." And so that definition is how the Bible defines it and it doesn't match Dean's definition.
Actually, it's worse. Depending on where you look, the Bible defines faith differently. It's a huge mess
He wants them to agree to substitute the word faith for a Greek word meaning truth. In essence, tricking them through etymology into saying the bible is the truth. It's no misunderstanding and no mistranlation. It's bait and switch. These people love to say they have read the "original" bible. Even though there are no originals.
Dean tries to move the goal post for over 10 minutes.
This was awesome to watch live!
The ancient Greeks called Christians Atheists as they only believed in one of the gods offered. Real glad this guy found his fellow Atheists to have an argument on etymology and modern language.
In a perfect world, Dean would be under medical supervision.
I hope your not serious
@@perry3438 no! Seriously..
Noah mentioned this on Scathing last week and I thought he had misinterpreted the argument - Noah was saying the caller claimed atheist use the wrong word, but my impression was that he accepted that other Christians used the word the way the hosts meant and that other Christians were using the wrong word. So I figured I’d rewatch
Either way, not only was the caller wrong, but even if he was right about the meaning of the word “Faith” it doesn’t add anything useful to the argument.
I forgot how much I appreciated this call. I found it cathartic without being impatient or mean. It was just honest frustration.
"I don't want to defend my belief, I want to argue definitions."
How did I miss this episode! Go Noah!!!
Love Noah!
Dean is living in his own world
Brilliant ending!!
Oh my Glob…
Dean! It doesn’t fucking matter! Just because you personally define faith in one way, doesn’t mean I have to assume that’s what literally most Christians mean!
Goddamn!!! Noah rocks!!!!!
The way to possibly get through to Dean might have been: accept his definition, talk about his faith and what it is based on.
@Kibate True. And they would have needed to be both patient and persistent with Dean... No easy feat
They did accept his definition, and Eric tried to ask him why the bible was reliable according to Dean's definition, and fuckin Dean ignored/danced around it.
ACA: Why can't we talk about this without having to apply faith as the tool?
Theist X: ...faith.
I've only seen Noah in a couple of videos and he's already one of my favorites
Catch his podcasts. God Awful Movies is my fave.
Well you got the audio synced on this clip. Good. Did you sync the original stream and re-up?
12:10 - faith in Greek is faith in English. Same definition.
THE WORLD NEEDS A SCATHING ATHEIST CALL IN SHOW!!!!!
WOW!!!! The guy is using a far-fetched definition of faith because he doesn't like the general definition. The bible is NOT a reliable source nor it is an informed intellect.
BTW, if you have a reliable source, then you have evidence, NOT FAITH.
I like that you put in extra effort to have a productive conversation.
It's incredibly flustrating how much Christians want to argue over definitions and then freaking swap them out as it suits their narrative.
Oddest thing about it.... I think anyway.
Is the fact 1Tim & 2Timothy both....Paul repeatedly tells Timothy (Christians by extension ) NOT TO engage in pointless arguments about words! 🤔
I sometimes feel more "Christian" as an atheist than I ever did as a Christian. So Pascal's wager was one of the first pointless apologetic arguments I called BS on. 😂😂😂
Thanks for doing the show its helped a lot to keep the peace and reason with family. 😊👍
Whats throwing him off is they keep driving him off his script !
Shouldn't Dean go talk to the Christians who are misusing this word?
4:00 ...have diven, have dove...
Dear theists: Instead of trying to redefine faith, why don't you tell us why *your* blind faith is true, while everybody who also has faith, but who use said blind faith to come to vastly different conclusions, are *not* right. You see, there's a very good reason that the greek word translated as "faith" was translated as "faith…" That's why the christian demigod was so hung up on _blind_ faith when thomas was intent on seeing evidence after the mythical crucifiction.
You see, on the outside, faith in xenu looks just like faith in yahweh, or faith in Pete's Dragon, or Hobbes the real and not at all stuffed Tiger, or faith in zeus. It all looks like people believing what they want, regardless of evidence for the contrary.
Dude... how'd you make the bold text?
Dope. Thanks!!
@@detryckvondoom4350 *test*
Hope & Faith are synonymous to me and I learned long ago that Hope is delayed disappointment.
Dean is either really stubborn or very dim.
Damn Noah is him
Caller: My point is you atheists wont buy into my word games!
Who else got here from the last AXP clip with Dean calling in to Matt and Shane?
if i did have a soul, Noah destroyed it with that stare at the beginning :D
The caller is "term"inal.
What was that word at 2:20?
18:30 - Noah had enough 🤣
"Well, if I redefine the word trust, then aliens are the masters of all hamster life"
"Ok, I will use your definition, however it doesn't follow"
"Well, it does because if I redefine the word trust, then aliens are the masters of all hamster life"
"You know, that's not how words work"
"It's because you're not using the correct definition of the word trust"
Noah became Matt 😱
FUCK YEAH NOAH
Oh, Noah! ❤
Arguing definitions is the grown up equivalent of "I knew this one with apples."
The word "pistos" translates as, faithful, loyal, in English and last time I checked there is no "biblically exclusive" definition of the word.
dean says gibberish 4 23.23, fecking hell
That was the most painful 23 minutes OF MY LIFE
Dean: There hasnt been a proper education and understanding within the Christian community about the definition and usage of that word...
Aquinas: Hold my mead...
"O, ye of little fistis."
I was listening to this at 1.25 speed. As bad as it was listening to Dean drone on and on at that speed, it must have been so much worse for these guys listening to him live.
I'd have jumped out a window.