Thank you for making such a subtle and precise test! I have been struggling for a month to choose between foam and wood. After watching your video, I ordered wooden limbs 😉
Great video! I am a data nerd and really appreciate the direct comparisons with real numbers, and who doesn't love graphs! Recently picked up a set of NS-G Foam limbs, and granted my old WNS Delta F3 wood limbs were not really high end comparable, but I did for sure notice that the wood seemed very temperature dependent. In Canada, especially during winter, we get major temp swings. I keep my gear in the garage, even though it's heated (kept around 5C), the gear is cold when I assemble my bow and my groups are erratic until it gets up to room temp. The NS-G's have no such problem and seem to be MUCH more consistent out of the bag regardless of temperature. That could be a big factor for shooters in variable conditions.
Incredible Jake! Two big takeaways: 1. Very surprised with the results as well. Maybe that's a testament to how far these companies have come with their R&D. Can't believe at the end of the day that it might legitimately be a personal preference 😂 2. I've wondered a lot about how to do this experiment fairly, and I think Jake's decision to control the tune (not the draw weight, etc.) is a very smart move. Major props for that.
Always looking forward to this types of information. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Fear Of Missing Out is a big nasty energy. Having evidence that “it’s the same, it’s personal preference” goes a long way to suppress anxiety of “not having the best gear”
Thank you! I'll make more educated decision whenever I'll be looking for new limbs (I wish I could get my money back I've payed to upgrade to mythic foam haha), this was much needed and has so much value for archers community
Awesome testing! I genuinely don't believe in equipment anymore and tests like this just fortify that. I've been out of the sport for 12 years and returned just last May and what I can see: in 12 years there hardly has been any innovation from a mechanical engineering or material science kind of standpoint. There's just an explosion of variation. Basically a rehash of what we've known for years and slight improvements in the technology. I shot a top of the line W&W back in the day as a junior with x10's, best money could buy in 2008. Now I'm shooting a Sanlida with Skylon's at roughly a third of the cost of my old bow. Funny thing; with both I'm able to shoot a 9,4-9,7 on average depending on how I feel. There's probably a bottom line, but equipment is fake. Tune and form are where it's at.
As already mentionned in the comments below, a more consistent foam limb is preferred over a wood limb that gets influenced by moisture and ambient temperature changes.
I've been saying this for a while. Any variation people think they notice is either mental or just quality control (they'd notice it with a different set of limbs regardless of the core). The only measurable difference I've found is sound. Wood and foam do sound different, and I think virtually everyone prefers the sound of wood.
Not gonna lie, I was checking your channel for this kind of comparison video recently. Then you release this video with an archers opinion along with data to back up your findings. Thank you so much
Interesting data and thanks jake! If I am not mistakenusually win@win wood limbs is not as smooth as foam ones during the clicking/expansion stage. One can make the wood feel as smooth as foam if he is pulling through (expanding) more faster and more consistent (so you really have to be on your game). This is what I get from my friends who had competed internationally and some really do prefer the wood over the foam because the can know the different feel when they make good or bad shots especially during the expansion stage which is almost the same thing as you said.
Totally outstanding video Jake! You're an experimental physicist (and I am one by training, so I may say that!). I used to shoot wood carbon limbs and switched to foam carbon. I can relate to what you found about punchy with (high frequency) vibration vs. a powerful "stacky" feeling yet "elegant" and well-behaved! If I'm honest with myself, I only switched because everyone else around me was shooting foam limbs and it seemed fashionable. People said foam had performance benefits and better stability in wide environmental conditions. Now I also feel like switching back to wood limbs, because I enjoy their reaction and sound. Unlike you though, I feel scared to change my setup and re-tune, in case it gets worse, and also because it takes me a long time!
Top video Jake, you may have drained a lil bit of life from the carbon foam limb market, but simultaneously pumping further life into the wood limb market. Its easy to believe that because foam is newer it must be better, but you have busted that myth somewhat. I have bought both types and my most recent limbs are wood, i feel that i made a good choice now because of this video 🏹
Great value in this video! I think most differences in feel of draw and performance are due to the carbon laminate. It's composition, fiber layup, which fibers, resin to fiber ratio and so on. The limbcore is more important damping vibrations after the shot. Just my 5 cents. Best wishes from Germany!
I can't do comparisons on your level, but my experience is also that it comes down to personal preference, especially on high level limbs. I think it is easier to make consistent Limbs out of foam, so with entry level limbs I think foam is slightly better than wood.
Awesome video... really great blend of showing your process, your thoughts, giving a breakdown and also supporting it all with data! Was waiting for this one for a while and you didn't disappoint!
Thank you Jake. I've actually been considering moving from wood to foam to get slightly faster arrows. Your video provided really solid data. Thank you for taking the time and for posting the video.
I ended up going with foams (NS Graphene), simply because of weather. I would rather spontaneously combust than shoot indoors, and have been known to shoot outside in the snow. Obviously, I shoot in the 90's since the weather in Indiana fluctuates. That being said, the more carbon the less difference and while its perhaps to a point where the differences are subtle in the extreme temps, the mental factor and confidence is something that cannot be empirically proven, but also is just as important.
I am so happy to see a data collection of limb performance for a sport where choices are made based on FEEL. I think an important factor for choosing limb material would be climate. Synthetic materials such as carbon, foam, resin could be more weather resistant. Organic ones like wood and bamboo might be susceptible to temperature changes. If I remember correctly, when Hoyt introduced Axia, Brady did mention the importance of climate resistance for archers who travel a lot (cargo is less pressurized and is colder). Which could explain the devastating limb failure of their flagship Velos during Tokyo 2020. But actual data evidence still remains to be seen...
Would be interesting to hear from W&W: are the limbs identical except for the core material, or are there differences in the lamination or core profile to compensate for wood vs foam characteristics?
What I would say is this: Excellent Win&Win riser , SUPERB combination wood-carbon limbs , excellent Win&Win product! Also a (very) good archer , we also have to acknowledge that!
I’ve had both, and found carbon/foam to be far superior. On my xceed riser on max draw weight setting I measured 50lb satori limbs at 46lb, and w&w NS foam 46lb limbs at 52 lb.
Didn't see that coming. Great vid. I own two sets of foam limbs but might now consider some wood. Would like to see you do a comparison now between maple and bamboo.
Very good thorough evealuation Jake as I would expect. I have had some problems with foam limbs and I have found if you leave the bow strung up overnight the foam appears to compress as the barce height reduces, no such issues with wood.
I have always liked limbs with a wood core because I felt this control and smooth, but at the same time I realized that I was losing speed and efficiency. Now, thanks to your review, it can be concluded that the performance of the latest limbs models does not actually differ depending on the core. By the way, there were these limbs in my practice that combine control, speed and efficiency, these are old Win&Win Winex. Maybe it's because of some heavyweight foam in them. P. S. I apologize for possible mistakes, I am not a native speaker.
So it seems like the age old question of foam vs wood is like risers, aluminium vs carbon. It's mostly what you prefer in the feeling of the shot feedback. W&W give you the choice, Hoyt say this is what you'll like. I wonder if the feeling of the limbs differs on a carbon riser like the Meta DX? Perhaps foam limbs on a carbon riser feel more like wood limbs on a aluminium riser.
Thanks for this video! I've been looking for this since i started picking up archery a few weeks back, i know im going to pick up some equipment, and now the decisions between foam vs wood might be down to color preference ! hahahaaha
I think as a beginner I'm going with the wood limbs for the lower price . Most of us are not going to be able to shoot at a level to see any difference . Now find out what the differences are in a 100 to 1,000 dollar wood limbs . At what price limbs do you see the biggest difference in . That would be a great thing to know for all new shooters .
Yet another great vid, Jake, TY As a newbie recurve archer it would be interesting to see some objective data on a few 'beginner' level bows. Many reviews laude the Samick Sage but I wonder if it's somewhat of an echo chamber situation. I went with the advice of my local archery store who set me up with a Core riser and limbs (Apollo/Black Sheep). The mention of the Sage produced rolled eyeballs! As I left the shop they said I should check out your channel, "He's really good and likes his technical details"! Good to know as I'd already come to the same conclusion :-) On a different note, it would be interesting to follow your wife, Heather's, progress as a budding archer new to the sport. It could build into a great series as new skills are learned/mastered in a natural progression. Keep up the great work 👍
hi, always interesting point of view i use carbone foam limbs and my gear dealer adviced me recently to consider wood and carbone limbs would feel more comfortable (i'm 53..) other thing, foam limbs life's shorter because of the material structure... so thank you for the test !
Jake, Just a question. Does the force-draw test measure on the return or on the draw? I ask because, the return is more reflective of what the arrow receives and removes the inherent hysterisis effects from the evaluation. And an observation, the "smoother" feel to the wood core could be because it has a wider range of damping potential due to the natural variations in wood versus the more homogenous nature of the foam, which allows it to damped multiple frequencies of vibration.
Interesting video. I have Samick foam limbs, going to get another set if limbs lighter weight to practice more. Think I’ll stick with the foam limbs love how they draw and shoot.
Thanks Jake, awesome effort. The thoroughness of these kind of reviews takes away all the marketing 'bamboozlement' and boils the decision making down to easy to decipher info... even if it all comes down to feel at the end of the day! Do you know if there's any price point difference between the foam and the wood or is it purely a substrate preference choice?
@@JakeKaminskiArchery hey Jake, my comment above got a reply saying text this number for a prize. Assuming its a fake/scam. If so assuming you would want to know
How about long-term? First limbs I bought were wood second-hand and realised there was a slight twist I could actually feel when I started to shoot consistently. If it deteriorates over time and not much difference with foam, I'd just get foam if it lasts longer. I'm building up poundage so I've been shooting wood-foam and back to wood. Either that or cheaper limbs don't last long generally. When I get to my ideal poundage, I'd be spending more on limbs and I'm not sure whether to go wood or foam either. I learned a lot from your channel since I started again after shooting casually 12 years ago btw so thanks! ^_^
Is there a weight difference between the wood and foam limbs? Physical weight I mean, not draw weight. Just in case someone wants a lighter bow set up and now know there is minimal difference in performance they could just pick the lighter version limbs if it is a noticeable difference.
Actually I was just thinking how I forgot to weigh the mass weight, the foam limbs as a pair, not per limb are 17 grams heavier than the wood limbs. So basically the same. 399 Grams was the pair of wood limbs vs 416 Grams for foam pair.
the question is whether the differences are due to the difference in the materials used, probably yes, the next question is whether the same limbs, the same material, the same strength show differences in measurements ...
Nice to see such a thorough comparison. As you said though it'll be personal preference. I think there may be slight differences in inclement conditions but that also depends on how they were put together and sealed. Even then wood moves with temperature variations. How much would depend 9n what wood was used, and treatment of the wood 😁
For sure, that's my real question, how do the different core materials compare in temp changes or when it comes to consistency... Meaning do the manmade foam cores offer more consistency from limb to limb or set to set compared to wood which have natural grain and compare the consistency of the materials.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery that might make for a good long term test. And torture test as well. Shoot in different conditions over a period of a year, leave both in the rain, cold and sun for a day a piece and then see how the data compares. I expect the graphene would be much the same as this round and the wood will have changed. Sort of a long term condensed video idea for insane archery nerds like myself..... Which I probably shouldn't confess to 🤣
@@cavetroll In my (admittedly limited) experience, temp and humidity seemed to be a big factor for my wood limbs and not so much for my foam. Granted, my sets are not really both on the same section of the performance spectrum, but I have some wood core WNS Delta F3's that certainly shoot differently when cold or warming up vs my foam core NS-G's. The F3's shoot high right when cold and move down and left when they get warm, almost draws a diagonal line across the target. NS-G's seem to be unaffected at all by temp. I'm talking temp difference of just storing in a +5C garage (in the bag) to a +20C-ish indoor range.
@@KentRodgman that is the issue right there squire. I have a handful primitive self bows. They require a warm-up after being strung before you can even nock an arrow
One thing that surprises me is how inefficient these MXT-XP limbs look compared to the MXT-10 limbs in your previous Limb Speed Shootout. Bow eff 79.15% for MXT-10 vs 67.36% for the newer limbs? I know the arrow setup is likely different, but overall it looks like you're shooting a lighter arrow with heavier limbs, and getting a notably lower FPS.
I live in PA and shoot outdoors below 50 degrees. Bow rides in my car to club to shoot indoors below 40 degrees. My question is how do changing temps effect different limb materials?
This was a very interesting test that answered many questions. Since you’re so experienced and knowledgeable, I hope you can answer a question. I have some experience in recreational target archery with a compound bow. I’m planning to try Olympic recurve and trying to determine which weight limbs to purchase. I want it to be fun and not work. I’m an active 69 year old male, 6 feet tall, 188 pounds. I’m not as strong as I used to be due to my age. I’m hoping to only buy one set of limbs for shooting in my yard. I know it’s tough but could you provide your thoughts? Thank you.
Results not surprising in that W/W's management-engineering-marketing are out to sell as many limb 'lines' as possible. So, given that, why would they engineer one style (at a given, specific poundage) to be different than another?
Jake: "I'm not in shooting shape, my shoulder is already stiff, only think I'll be capable of shooting within the 8 ring..." Me: *Can barely keep it within the 8 ring at 18m indoors at my best on the same size face* 🙄
Fantastic content. I'm guessing this data will not tell me as much about wood v foam for my win&win exPower limbs (v exPrime wood) which have been around for well over a decade. The foam version were 'understood' to be faster??
I don't believe that the type of core matters as long as they are good limbs, I've had excellent limbs of both wood and foam and crap of both wood and foam.
I really like technical content. One question: I can see that your bareshafts have something at the rear end, are you trying to compensate for vane weight or you just peel the vane off and leave part of its base? Regarding wood vs foam, my concern is consistency with temperature variation, like you and others said in previous comments.
I just lopped off the vanes and left the base. I don't add tape or bother compensating for the weight of the vanes, I just don't see the need and never saw a benefit when I did.
What can explain the difference in efficiency between these and the MXT-10? These were 67% and the MXT-10 were something like 78-79%. That’s quite a lot.
Lots of different things. I’m not even sure the arrows were the same. Unless every variable except the limbs are kept the same, the efficiency will vary. I am also making adjustments to the rig I am using as the bow press is not rigid enough to keep things consistent enough.
wood does feel better but it's got a very bad rep from the budget limbs. I did contact fivics a while back to ask this question but never got a response. If i can save 30$ from getting wood limbs vs their foam counterpart i'll take it really, wich basically translates as buying 30$ worth of nocks hahah.
The number of archers I know who swear blind that the core material makes a massive difference to the DFC, despite the core providing almost no "poundage", has always made me laugh. Hopefully some of them will see this video.
A disabled archery player I don't have a bow to carry on archery I don't have the means to buy a bow Can you provide me with a bow It would be a great help to me
Jake, You being “off” and shooting those groups at distance is amazing. I’m jealous!
Now do a middle of the range and then a bottom of the range set of limbs. This info is so valuable, hard to trust a brand, easy to trust a Jake.
Thank you for making such a subtle and precise test! I have been struggling for a month to choose between foam and wood. After watching your video, I ordered wooden limbs 😉
Great video! I am a data nerd and really appreciate the direct comparisons with real numbers, and who doesn't love graphs! Recently picked up a set of NS-G Foam limbs, and granted my old WNS Delta F3 wood limbs were not really high end comparable, but I did for sure notice that the wood seemed very temperature dependent. In Canada, especially during winter, we get major temp swings. I keep my gear in the garage, even though it's heated (kept around 5C), the gear is cold when I assemble my bow and my groups are erratic until it gets up to room temp. The NS-G's have no such problem and seem to be MUCH more consistent out of the bag regardless of temperature. That could be a big factor for shooters in variable conditions.
Incredible Jake! Two big takeaways:
1. Very surprised with the results as well. Maybe that's a testament to how far these companies have come with their R&D. Can't believe at the end of the day that it might legitimately be a personal preference 😂
2. I've wondered a lot about how to do this experiment fairly, and I think Jake's decision to control the tune (not the draw weight, etc.) is a very smart move. Major props for that.
This is actually a pretty profound study. I certainly expected elevated performance from foam core. Carbon/wood is a tough combo to beat. Thanks Jake.
This is an excellent empirical series of tests. Thanks!
Always looking forward to this types of information. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Fear Of Missing Out is a big nasty energy. Having evidence that “it’s the same, it’s personal preference” goes a long way to suppress anxiety of “not having the best gear”
That anxiety is so real
Thank you! I'll make more educated decision whenever I'll be looking for new limbs (I wish I could get my money back I've payed to upgrade to mythic foam haha), this was much needed and has so much value for archers community
Thanks Jake. Fantastic comparison. The way you can breakdown the data you compile is so easy to understand even for a newbie like me.
Awesome testing! I genuinely don't believe in equipment anymore and tests like this just fortify that.
I've been out of the sport for 12 years and returned just last May and what I can see: in 12 years there hardly has been any innovation from a mechanical engineering or material science kind of standpoint. There's just an explosion of variation. Basically a rehash of what we've known for years and slight improvements in the technology.
I shot a top of the line W&W back in the day as a junior with x10's, best money could buy in 2008. Now I'm shooting a Sanlida with Skylon's at roughly a third of the cost of my old bow.
Funny thing; with both I'm able to shoot a 9,4-9,7 on average depending on how I feel.
There's probably a bottom line, but equipment is fake.
Tune and form are where it's at.
The STAR Method is pretty innovative, but I've only released limited information. Impressed the heck out of an Olympic coach though.
As already mentionned in the comments below, a more consistent foam limb is preferred over a wood limb that gets influenced by moisture and ambient temperature changes.
I've been saying this for a while. Any variation people think they notice is either mental or just quality control (they'd notice it with a different set of limbs regardless of the core). The only measurable difference I've found is sound. Wood and foam do sound different, and I think virtually everyone prefers the sound of wood.
Not gonna lie, I was checking your channel for this kind of comparison video recently. Then you release this video with an archers opinion along with data to back up your findings. Thank you so much
Interesting data and thanks jake! If I am not mistakenusually win@win wood limbs is not as smooth as foam ones during the clicking/expansion stage. One can make the wood feel as smooth as foam if he is pulling through (expanding) more faster and more consistent (so you really have to be on your game). This is what I get from my friends who had competed internationally and some really do prefer the wood over the foam because the can know the different feel when they make good or bad shots especially during the expansion stage which is almost the same thing as you said.
Totally outstanding video Jake! You're an experimental physicist (and I am one by training, so I may say that!). I used to shoot wood carbon limbs and switched to foam carbon. I can relate to what you found about punchy with (high frequency) vibration vs. a powerful "stacky" feeling yet "elegant" and well-behaved! If I'm honest with myself, I only switched because everyone else around me was shooting foam limbs and it seemed fashionable. People said foam had performance benefits and better stability in wide environmental conditions. Now I also feel like switching back to wood limbs, because I enjoy their reaction and sound. Unlike you though, I feel scared to change my setup and re-tune, in case it gets worse, and also because it takes me a long time!
Top video Jake, you may have drained a lil bit of life from the carbon foam limb market, but simultaneously pumping further life into the wood limb market. Its easy to believe that because foam is newer it must be better, but you have busted that myth somewhat. I have bought both types and my most recent limbs are wood, i feel that i made a good choice now because of this video 🏹
Great value in this video! I think most differences in feel of draw and performance are due to the carbon laminate. It's composition, fiber layup, which fibers, resin to fiber ratio and so on. The limbcore is more important damping vibrations after the shot. Just my 5 cents. Best wishes from Germany!
I can't do comparisons on your level, but my experience is also that it comes down to personal preference, especially on high level limbs.
I think it is easier to make consistent Limbs out of foam, so with entry level limbs I think foam is slightly better than wood.
Awesome video... really great blend of showing your process, your thoughts, giving a breakdown and also supporting it all with data! Was waiting for this one for a while and you didn't disappoint!
Need more flashy graphics and cut scenes… gonna work on that with the switch to full time archery.
Thank you Jake. I've actually been considering moving from wood to foam to get slightly faster arrows. Your video provided really solid data. Thank you for taking the time and for posting the video.
I ended up going with foams (NS Graphene), simply because of weather. I would rather spontaneously combust than shoot indoors, and have been known to shoot outside in the snow. Obviously, I shoot in the 90's since the weather in Indiana fluctuates.
That being said, the more carbon the less difference and while its perhaps to a point where the differences are subtle in the extreme temps, the mental factor and confidence is something that cannot be empirically proven, but also is just as important.
The shooters here in the freezing cold part of the country would love a comparison of the limbs when they're super cold!!
Wow! Thank You so much for doing this in Your free time and sharing this info with us. Simply amazing!
For a right-hand shooter like you and me, the left arrow shows up as stiff, not weak as you said. Great video as always.
I am so happy to see a data collection of limb performance for a sport where choices are made based on FEEL.
I think an important factor for choosing limb material would be climate. Synthetic materials such as carbon, foam, resin could be more weather resistant. Organic ones like wood and bamboo might be susceptible to temperature changes.
If I remember correctly, when Hoyt introduced Axia, Brady did mention the importance of climate resistance for archers who travel a lot (cargo is less pressurized and is colder). Which could explain the devastating limb failure of their flagship Velos during Tokyo 2020.
But actual data evidence still remains to be seen...
Would be interesting to hear from W&W: are the limbs identical except for the core material, or are there differences in the lamination or core profile to compensate for wood vs foam characteristics?
Another awesome video!!! Keep up the great work!! Thank you and a great hug from Brazil!
What I would say is this:
Excellent Win&Win riser , SUPERB combination wood-carbon limbs , excellent Win&Win product!
Also a (very) good archer , we also have to acknowledge that!
I’ve had both, and found carbon/foam to be far superior. On my xceed riser on max draw weight setting I measured 50lb satori limbs at 46lb, and w&w NS foam 46lb limbs at 52 lb.
Didn't see that coming. Great vid. I own two sets of foam limbs but might now consider some wood. Would like to see you do a comparison now between maple and bamboo.
Very good thorough evealuation Jake as I would expect. I have had some problems with foam limbs and I have found if you leave the bow strung up overnight the foam appears to compress as the barce height reduces, no such issues with wood.
Hi Jake!! Thanks for all the info !! I love all of your videos c:
I have always liked limbs with a wood core because I felt this control and smooth, but at the same time I realized that I was losing speed and efficiency. Now, thanks to your review, it can be concluded that the performance of the latest limbs models does not actually differ depending on the core. By the way, there were these limbs in my practice that combine control, speed and efficiency, these are old Win&Win Winex. Maybe it's because of some heavyweight foam in them.
P. S. I apologize for possible mistakes, I am not a native speaker.
I’ll stick with my bamboo limbs. Very interesting video. TY!
Hello Jake, are bamboo limbs in the same category as wood limbs? P.S. Greetings from Poland and thank you for all you are doing for your fans.
bamboo is wood?
Would be very interesting to see the temperature response. Like 10C - 25C and 40C (or higher, not sure what limb temp is on a hot sunny day)
So it seems like the age old question of foam vs wood is like risers, aluminium vs carbon. It's mostly what you prefer in the feeling of the shot feedback. W&W give you the choice, Hoyt say this is what you'll like. I wonder if the feeling of the limbs differs on a carbon riser like the Meta DX? Perhaps foam limbs on a carbon riser feel more like wood limbs on a aluminium riser.
Thank you, great test!!!
Thanks for this video! I've been looking for this since i started picking up archery a few weeks back, i know im going to pick up some equipment, and now the decisions between foam vs wood might be down to color preference ! hahahaaha
I think as a beginner I'm going with the wood limbs for the lower price . Most of us are not going to be able to shoot at a level to see any difference . Now find out what the differences are in a 100 to 1,000 dollar wood limbs . At what price limbs do you see the biggest difference in . That would be a great thing to know for all new shooters .
Yet another great vid, Jake, TY
As a newbie recurve archer it would be interesting to see some objective data on a few 'beginner' level bows. Many reviews laude the Samick Sage but I wonder if it's somewhat of an echo chamber situation. I went with the advice of my local archery store who set me up with a Core riser and limbs (Apollo/Black Sheep). The mention of the Sage produced rolled eyeballs!
As I left the shop they said I should check out your channel, "He's really good and likes his technical details"! Good to know as I'd already come to the same conclusion :-)
On a different note, it would be interesting to follow your wife, Heather's, progress as a budding archer new to the sport. It could build into a great series as new skills are learned/mastered in a natural progression.
Keep up the great work 👍
hi,
always interesting point of view
i use carbone foam limbs and my gear dealer adviced me recently to consider wood and carbone limbs would feel more comfortable (i'm 53..)
other thing, foam limbs life's shorter because of the material structure...
so thank you for the test !
I preferred the incredible stability of foam limbs, when shooting the old 1440 fita over a wide range of varying temperatures.
Jake,
Just a question. Does the force-draw test measure on the return or on the draw? I ask because, the return is more reflective of what the arrow receives and removes the inherent hysterisis effects from the evaluation.
And an observation, the "smoother" feel to the wood core could be because it has a wider range of damping potential due to the natural variations in wood versus the more homogenous nature of the foam, which allows it to damped multiple frequencies of vibration.
Interesting video. I have Samick foam limbs, going to get another set if limbs lighter weight to practice more. Think I’ll stick with the foam limbs love how they draw and shoot.
67% of efficiency is shocking. For top limbs of this price point is woeful! It should be up in the high 80's.
Thanks Jake, awesome effort. The thoroughness of these kind of reviews takes away all the marketing 'bamboozlement' and boils the decision making down to easy to decipher info... even if it all comes down to feel at the end of the day! Do you know if there's any price point difference between the foam and the wood or is it purely a substrate preference choice?
Price is the same.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery hey Jake, my comment above got a reply saying text this number for a prize. Assuming its a fake/scam. If so assuming you would want to know
great video thanks jake 🙂
How about long-term? First limbs I bought were wood second-hand and realised there was a slight twist I could actually feel when I started to shoot consistently. If it deteriorates over time and not much difference with foam, I'd just get foam if it lasts longer. I'm building up poundage so I've been shooting wood-foam and back to wood. Either that or cheaper limbs don't last long generally. When I get to my ideal poundage, I'd be spending more on limbs and I'm not sure whether to go wood or foam either.
I learned a lot from your channel since I started again after shooting casually 12 years ago btw so thanks! ^_^
Ah you got bots commenting
Interesting stuff. Good to know there are 3 kinds of 'Thing' in Archery, just as in the rest of life:
Good Things 👍
Bad Things 👎
Just . . . Things 🙃
Thanks a lot man. It will definitely help me when choosing.
Love watching you Videos. For some german Dude like me, very insightful and understandable.
Awesome Video thank you.
The weight of both would be interesting.
Is there a weight difference between the wood and foam limbs? Physical weight I mean, not draw weight. Just in case someone wants a lighter bow set up and now know there is minimal difference in performance they could just pick the lighter version limbs if it is a noticeable difference.
Actually I was just thinking how I forgot to weigh the mass weight, the foam limbs as a pair, not per limb are 17 grams heavier than the wood limbs. So basically the same.
399 Grams was the pair of wood limbs vs 416 Grams for foam pair.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thanks, so again not enough to be worth worrying about. Interesting stuff.
the question is whether the differences are due to the difference in the materials used, probably yes, the next question is whether the same limbs, the same material, the same strength show differences in measurements ...
to measure is to know
It would be informative if you did a top five limbs in your opinion video and listed why.
Everyone is impressed by your virtue !
Nice to see such a thorough comparison. As you said though it'll be personal preference. I think there may be slight differences in inclement conditions but that also depends on how they were put together and sealed. Even then wood moves with temperature variations. How much would depend 9n what wood was used, and treatment of the wood 😁
For sure, that's my real question, how do the different core materials compare in temp changes or when it comes to consistency... Meaning do the manmade foam cores offer more consistency from limb to limb or set to set compared to wood which have natural grain and compare the consistency of the materials.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery that might make for a good long term test. And torture test as well. Shoot in different conditions over a period of a year, leave both in the rain, cold and sun for a day a piece and then see how the data compares. I expect the graphene would be much the same as this round and the wood will have changed. Sort of a long term condensed video idea for insane archery nerds like myself..... Which I probably shouldn't confess to 🤣
@@cavetroll In my (admittedly limited) experience, temp and humidity seemed to be a big factor for my wood limbs and not so much for my foam. Granted, my sets are not really both on the same section of the performance spectrum, but I have some wood core WNS Delta F3's that certainly shoot differently when cold or warming up vs my foam core NS-G's. The F3's shoot high right when cold and move down and left when they get warm, almost draws a diagonal line across the target. NS-G's seem to be unaffected at all by temp. I'm talking temp difference of just storing in a +5C garage (in the bag) to a +20C-ish indoor range.
@@KentRodgman that is the issue right there squire. I have a handful primitive self bows. They require a warm-up after being strung before you can even nock an arrow
I love how to most people a 1.5% variation is negligible but at the Olympic level its "quite a variation".
One thing that surprises me is how inefficient these MXT-XP limbs look compared to the MXT-10 limbs in your previous Limb Speed Shootout. Bow eff 79.15% for MXT-10 vs 67.36% for the newer limbs?
I know the arrow setup is likely different, but overall it looks like you're shooting a lighter arrow with heavier limbs, and getting a notably lower FPS.
I live in PA and shoot outdoors below 50 degrees. Bow rides in my car to club to shoot indoors below 40 degrees. My question is how do changing temps effect different limb materials?
This was a very interesting test that answered many questions. Since you’re so experienced and knowledgeable, I hope you can answer a question. I have some experience in recreational target archery with a compound bow. I’m planning to try Olympic recurve and trying to determine which weight limbs to purchase. I want it to be fun and not work. I’m an active 69 year old male, 6 feet tall, 188 pounds. I’m not as strong as I used to be due to my age. I’m hoping to only buy one set of limbs for shooting in my yard. I know it’s tough but could you provide your thoughts? Thank you.
Will you ever be able to compare performance in different conditions (hot/cold)?
Hi Jake. Why the limbs are marked "upper" and "lower"? Are they diferent? Have ever tested the limbs in reverse position?
The limbs have more stability giving better feed back ? You can feel the shot better?wood less harsh.
Can you make a video for us comparing the cheap and the expensive limbs . And thanks for you great vedio .
Results not surprising in that W/W's management-engineering-marketing are out to sell as many limb 'lines' as possible. So, given that, why would they engineer one style (at a given, specific
poundage) to be different than another?
A very good video. Thank you.
Jake: "I'm not in shooting shape, my shoulder is already stiff, only think I'll be capable of shooting within the 8 ring..."
Me: *Can barely keep it within the 8 ring at 18m indoors at my best on the same size face* 🙄
THanks, that is so interesting.
Fantastic content. I'm guessing this data will not tell me as much about wood v foam for my win&win exPower limbs (v exPrime wood) which have been around for well over a decade. The foam version were 'understood' to be faster??
bonjour jake et bravo pour ce test, j'aimerais avoir votre avis sur les limbs MK X-core , merci et encore bravo pour vos vidéos
I don't believe that the type of core matters as long as they are good limbs, I've had excellent limbs of both wood and foam and crap of both wood and foam.
Can you please make a 70 meter test video with hoyt Formula XD and Axia limbs?
So the limbs are the same as each other at room temperature. Do wood limbs vary speed more when the temperature changes?
Well baste on your tests not much of a difference in performance but what i do know there is a difference in price
Was there a weight difference in the limbs (mass weight, not draw weight)? Thanks for the video!
Only a small amount, the Woods were 399 Grams for the pair and the foam was 416 grams for the pair.
Awesome, question though. Would it still be better to get the foam since there’s less risk of warping in the long run?
Do you have any video of how to load arrow and how to put arrow on arrow rest and on Which side we face the fletching.
I really like technical content. One question: I can see that your bareshafts have something at the rear end, are you trying to compensate for vane weight or you just peel the vane off and leave part of its base?
Regarding wood vs foam, my concern is consistency with temperature variation, like you and others said in previous comments.
I just lopped off the vanes and left the base. I don't add tape or bother compensating for the weight of the vanes, I just don't see the need and never saw a benefit when I did.
Wow, that is amazing, thanks. Wonder what would Bamboo core show?
I suspect no difference.
@Jake, I'd like to know if the results between core type change in cold ambient temperatures.
foam have seen some issues in high humidity
What can explain the difference in efficiency between these and the MXT-10?
These were 67% and the MXT-10 were something like 78-79%.
That’s quite a lot.
Lots of different things. I’m not even sure the arrows were the same.
Unless every variable except the limbs are kept the same, the efficiency will vary.
I am also making adjustments to the rig I am using as the bow press is not rigid enough to keep things consistent enough.
Hello Jake! Kérdésem hab carbon vagy bambusz carbon! Mi a tapasztalat és a különbség?
Surprised you didn't break a nock, great test, certainly muscle memory on someone a touch rusty. 😉
I did break a nock at one point in the review video.
wood does feel better but it's got a very bad rep from the budget limbs.
I did contact fivics a while back to ask this question but never got a response. If i can save 30$ from getting wood limbs vs their foam counterpart i'll take it really, wich basically translates as buying 30$ worth of nocks hahah.
I bought the foam but the wood won. (Sing three times)
The number of archers I know who swear blind that the core material makes a massive difference to the DFC, despite the core providing almost no "poundage", has always made me laugh. Hopefully some of them will see this video.
Hi Jake, which limbs are better
MXT-10 or MXT-XP?
Yay
Try a Flemish twist string.
Now do bamboo/carbon limbs.
👏👏👏👏👏
For us mortals, bare shafts are finicky all the time.
Limbs LBS?
A disabled archery player I don't have a bow to carry on archery I don't have the means to buy a bow Can you provide me with a bow It would be a great help to me
These are good limbs either way, try doing the same at the budget end.
I don't know of any limbs that are cheaper that are the same model but just different cores. Do you know of any?
@@JakeKaminskiArchery very popular in the UK for beginners Krossen Xenia ILF Recurve Limbs come in wood and foam.
I'll see if I can get them heavy enough