HOW TO TREAT STUBBORN CORDING
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Cording is a really common issue after Breast Cancer Treatment, particularly Axillary Lymph Node Dissection and / or Sentinel Node Biopsy. In my clinic I have always found the best way to START treating Cording is with Neural Flossing which involves a gentle nerve stretch. However! Many people will find that the basic version of nerve stretching only improves their Cording so much. If you have stubborn cording, or cording that has improved but not completely resolved, then this video is for you!
In this video I take you through the Advanced Stretch for Cording. This style of stretching is called Neural Tensioning and is a more aggressive stretch compared to the Basic version Neural Flossing. Even though I use the word aggressive, I do teach you all the steps in how you can safely and effectively 'wind up' the stretch so that it is tailored to you and how much tension you can tolerate on the Cording.
If you are unsure as to whether the symptoms you are experiencing are actually Cording or something different, please seek assessment by your treating Medical Team or General Practitioner. Sometimes Cording is tricky to diagnose, or you may have been told you have cording when it is actually something else such as lymphoedema or scar tissue. If in doubt, seek Medical Advice and ideally advice that is coming from experts in the field of Breast Cancer.
The main aim with this stretch is to improve the flexibility of the Cord (literally meaning improve the range of movement of the nerve tissue in the upper limb and where it connects to the trunk / head and neck), but we do not want you to ache for hours after finishing this stretch. So monitor your symptoms after completing the exercise, and if you do find your arm is quite sore for some time then I show you the ways in which you can modify this stretch so you can tolerate the exercise. I discuss frequency and duration of the Cording stretch.
SO IF YOU ENJOY THIS CONTENT and would like to see more then please subscribe to my CZcams channel which is completely free! Give it a big thumbs up and leave a comment - as I would love to hear from you and find out what Breast Cancer topics you would like to know more about.
I welcome you to ask questions, participate and join me as we explore the intricacies of Breast Cancer and help YOU return to your most optimal health following surgery, chemotherapy and radiation.
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Jen, Great content for us boys without lymph nodes too. Mightily scary when it appeared 3 days after the op until I understood what this cording was. Thanks for clear demos of how to do stretching and massage. You have made my life better one video at a time and you are a wonderful human being for doing it.
Jen words can't express how thankful I am for your Breast Cancer Physio channel. You have shone a light on so much I was not really hearing or understanding. It's two and half weeks after my lumpectomy and I'm wishing I'd found you from day one. What a wonderful contribution to so many woman's paths to recovery. So much appreciation.
Your videos on cording hv been very informational. I didn't know what was happening to me. I got it about a year after my surgery
You are so sweet to care about others enough to put these videos out. Thank you so much for your kindness ❤
Hi Sheila, Thank you for your lovely feedback! I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Fantastic again, thank you Jen. I am sitting here doing the exercises as you are talking, and I have also done your lymphatic drainage approx 30 mins ago. My arm is finally feeling good. It has been such a struggle over the past month since my dmx, and I haven't been given the best advice. The advice I was given was to "walk up the wall" to feel the stretch, hold it for 10 secs., and to do this is repetitions of 10 x 3 times a day. It is horrendous and so painful. I didn't feel like I was getting anywhere. Now, after your lymphatic drainage and cording vids, I feel a million times better. Thank you.
Wonderful to read this Lou!!! I've launched a new Private Group on Facebook - The Compass Community - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with free weekly live education sessions. I will be able to provide more interaction with everyone on this platform. If you would like to join please click on this link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Thank you for posting those videos ! :) highly appreciated
Thank you! Hope you're finding them helpful! Jen
Very helpful Jen. Thank you. I’ll be giving all this a try.
Thanks for your lovely comment Emma! Let me know if you have any dramas with this exercise. Jen x
Thank you so much! This video is really informational and the exercise helps me with my cording.
Very useful information. Thanks so much
Thank you so much for these videos - I've subscribed!
Thankyou Mary! Hope you are finding them helpful. Jen x
I have cording and your videos have helped so much! Thank you!
Fantastic to hear this Alynda! Thanks so much for watching and commenting! Jen x
Thanks for another very helpful video!!
My pleasure Gretchen! So stoked you are finding them helpful. If you don't mind my asking, how did you find out about my Channel? Jen x
I was searching on CZcams for cording stretches. I can’t remember exactly what phrase I searched but your video came up. Going to begin implementing this into my other stretching. Thanks again!
Jen, thank you so much for these cording videos. I’m 5-1/2 years out from stage II breast cancer (bilateral lumpectomy, chemo, radiation, breast reduction plastic surgery) and realized recently that I have cording in my left arm. I was diagnosed with tendinitis in my wrist but on my own I discovered the extreme nerve tightness up my arm. Much appreciated.
That was so helpful. Thank you!
Thank you for your lovely feedback! I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
I feel this one may be good for me Jen, thank you.
Thanks Trish! I hope you get some great info from this video! Jen x
Thank you so much. I discovered your channel half an hour ago after the pain from cording was too much to bear, and it feels so much better already. ❤️
Hi Fiona! So sorry for my very delayed reply. That is fantastic the video has helped so much already! Wonderful to hear! Jen x
I had a lumpectomy 6 days ago lymph biopsy results and will have to radiotherapy. This advice had been so helpful. Thank you so much. Sally S E England
So glad to hear that Sally! Appreciate your feedback. Make sure you're aware of the skin changes caused by Radiation to the breast. I have done another video worth watching (How To Reduce Breast Pain After Lumpectomy & Radiation) that explains Radiation Fibrosis Scarring. Biggest issue I treat after lymphoedema. Message me if you have any questions. Jen x
Louise Price. Hi this was never discussed when I had my mastectomy here in Wales, 2 years ago, and I am so grateful I will be following you site with great interest. thank you.
Hi Louise! So sorry for my delayed reply. Thank you for your lovely feedback. I really appreciate it! Glad this video has helped you. I will be making another video on why cording can persist following mastectomies soon! Jen
I have stubborn cording after a lumpectomy and this stretch really works thank you 😊for your thoroughness
Hi Sonia! That is fantastic to hear! I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Thank you so much Jen for this information. I had a double mastectomy and I’ve been dealing with nerve pain and now cording. I have an appointment in two weeks with the physical therapy but I will definitely start these stretches today. Thank you!
Thank you for your lovely feedback! I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Thank you for your videos. They are the only help I have. I'm so frustrated with this. I had only 1 node removed, but I've had cording come and go every 4-6 months for 4 years. My insurance allowed me to see a physical therapist, but he just showed me a few stretches that didn't resolve the cording or pain. Everyone tells me how unusual this is, and I'm quite tired of hearing how odd I am & that no one knows why the cording keeps coming back or how to resolve it.
Hi Lisa, thank you for your feedback. It is possible for cording to come and go. Cording can reappear when you experience a build up of tension. I had a lady that this happened to when she returned to the gym after a long break. So your situation is definitely not unusual. If you'd like to do a Telehealth with me to go over some specific stretching / treatment techniques please send me an email enquiries@thebreastcancerphysio.com
Even though I am based in Australia I can do international Telehealth. Jen
Thank you so much for your information. As a massage therapist I see cording a lot and many of the breast cancer patients have used up all the insurance allowance for physical therapy and have to seek help elsewhere. I have taken Tracy Walton's class on oncology massage. I would love to find classes to take on cording. If you ever give a course please let me know. I am sending most all of my clients to your channel to watch. Thank you again for being there and giving help! Donalyn Jody Burks LMT , CLT
Hi Jody! Thanks so much for your positive feedback! If you're interested I'm about to launch a new Private Group on Facebook - The Compass Community - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with free weekly live education sessions. I will be able to provide more interaction with everyone on this platform including treatment demonstrations. If you would like to join please click on this link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Thank you for your good, achievable results-based videos, Jen. Had a mastectomy/reconstruction 17 years ago (non-cancerous) which didn't result in cording. Had a mastectomy/28 nodes removed (only breast tissue had an area of breast cancer) in late Dec '21 and the cording was immediate and so frightening. I was referred to a general physio and some of the exercises have helped but the massage and neural stretches you recommend have worked so well. Thank you!
And thank you for explaining/validating cording - that it is a 'thing'. There is huge coverage of lymphoedema while cording was barely acknowledged by my surgeon and my breast care specialist nurse, even when their faces were in my axilla! Thanks for spreading the word - I've recommended your videos to the local prosthesis/bra specialist, too. Have you done anything about 'dog ears'? Cheers from NZ.
Hi Wendy! So sorry for my very delayed response. I really appreciate your comment and for sharing my videos! I haven't done a video about dogs ears but they sure are a pain in the rear end after already a lot of surgery! I will be engaging with a Plastic Surgeon soon and hopefully I can get them on my new online platforms to do some education. I've just launched a new Private Group on Facebook - The Compass Community - a Global Online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with free weekly live education sessions. I will be able to provide more interaction with everyone on this platform. If you would like to join please click on this link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Hi Jen thank you for theses videos! I Live in Canada.
I have the stubborn kind of cording, my surgery was 7 months ago, have had cording since the first month.
I have been wearing a compression sleeve for small amount of swelling , mostly after radiation.
I’ll start with the the first video exercises anyways, and work my way up.
I would like to know if I should always do these with the compression sleeve off or on?
I just found you and, wish I’d found you sooner, I will be recommending
your videos to our online breast cancer discussions!
Thank you,
JoAnne
Hey Jo! Thank you so much for watching and commenting. You can do the exercises with or without the sleeve, but you may want to take the sleeve off so you can feel the tension on the cord as much as possible. The sleeve may mask a bit of the stretch. The more you can tolerate the stretch, the quicker the cording will resolve. Does that make sense? And do you get a Physio to massage it or massage the cording yourself? Jen
This helps thank you
Thanks for your feedback! I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Thank you Jen for these excellent videos. How soon after surgery would you recommend starting these more advanced exercises?
Hi Belinda! I see you joined Compass so welcome to the group! I would wait until all wounds are completely healed prior to starting these exercises. If you're not sure then get clearance from your Medical Team. Typically post surgical wounds are healed around 4 weeks. I hope this helps! Jen
Thank you so much 😊
You're welcome 😊
Thank you very much ♥️
You're very welcome Isabel! Jen x
Always informative..thanks
Thankyou Angie!! x
Hi thank you so much for your comprehensive videos. I believe I have a cord from under my breast to lower rib cage 1 month after WLE and SLNB. Please could you share how to stretch the anterior chest wall and a cord in this area? Thank you
Hi Francesca, I am so sorry for my very delayed reply. I am playing catch up on comments. Do you still have the cording? When it involves the breast and lower rib cage it can be easier to stretch by lying over the side of a bed so you can rotate your trunk and extend your arm over the side of the bed. Jen
I have what I suspect is cording after a mini arm lift. This and your simple stretch just made my arms feel so good, thank you.
Awesome to hear Julie! Thanks for the feedback! Jen x
Thanks very much, Jen. Very clear and helpful. Just wondering how many times to do the stretches each time/session?
Thanks so much Paula! I would aim to do 3 lots of 30 second sustained stretches twice daily. If this regime makes your arm ache too long afterwards then drop back to once a day and aim for 3 lots of 15 second sustained holds.
@@TheBreastCancerPhysio Thanks very much for your help and for replying so quickly. Regards, Paula
Thanks Jen! My ROM so much better but still long ways to go. So will do this stretch.
The chest area above my incision is very tight. Is it safe to start massaging it and if so any tip.
Thanks again and happy new year!
Hey Melanie! You can start massaging your pectoral muscles (area above the scar but below your collarbone). The stretch in this video should also really help the pectoral muscle length. Jen x
Thank you so much for this.The nerve tension makes sense. My cord breaks is it lymphatic fluid that gets released ?
Hi Veronica, thanks for your question. I don't think it is lymphatic fluid that is releasing when a cord 'snaps', but rather (and this is only my theory) similar to when a knuckle or joint 'cracks' which is carbon dioxide going from gas to fluid. Just a theory though! Jen x
Thank you so much for the video. I am on day 7 after bilateral mastectomy with lymph nodes removed from under my left arm. My right side has only a little discomfort and about 85% of normal range of motion. But the left side begins to develop a web of tightness, from under and around the chest wall all the way to my left elbow. I am going to try this advanced stretching technique to see if it will help to improve my condition. Stay awesome!
Hi Caveat! If you're only Day 7 after bilateral mastectomy I would go to my earlier video- How To Reduce Cording After Breast Cancer. This advanced stretch may be top aggressive this early after surgery. Jen x
@@TheBreastCancerPhysio Thank you for the suggestion. The reason I considered doing static stretch is that my left side has extremely limited range of motion compared to the right, also, I could feel the multiple cords around the surgical site, that really scared me. However, I will take your advice to return to go back to flossing. Thanks again.
@@Sourdoughgirl Ok I can see why you chose to go to the static stretch. You can do the static stretch as long as you can tolerate it (i.e. not too painful). Try the flossing for one week and if you're not noticing any progress then go back to the static stretch. Jen :)
I'm definitely adding this stretch on a more regular basis and the back roller for the chest and rib cage tightness that I have. I am one year post radiation and I still have so much tightness down the side of my neck from the radiation. Any particular stretches besides just moving my head up and down and turning side to side and dropping my neck side to side? Thank you for any advice. I have fully enjoyed all of your videos! I appreciate you.
Hey Holly! Thanks for your question. Have you tried massaging your neck? If you're not sure how to do it you could consider seeing a therapist with experience in cancer care. Jen x
@@TheBreastCancerPhysio Jen, thank you so much for the advice! I appreciate you responding and will follow it. Have a wonderful weekend. 🤍
@@hjcb01 My pleasure! It that doesn't help though please let me know. Jen x
Thank you so much. I m from Sri Lanka and just had a mastectomy two and half a week before. Can’t stretch my hand but need to start radiotherapy in two days
Hi Chamila - sorry I just replied to your other comment. I suspect you may have cording if your hand is involved. Have you tried the exercises in my cording videos? And has it helped at all? Jen
I had a mastectomy on December 1st 2022. I never knew anything about cording or exercises, no doctors or anybody mentioned it. I found your channel 2 weeks ago. I'm trying to do some of the exercises in your other videos. But afterwards my under arm is painful for a long time. Seems to make it worse almost. I have a silicone implant and it's always really sore around the margins. I don't want to do the exercises but know I need to. I am glad I found you and will keep trying. What is wrong?
Hi Linda, I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform with issues around cording as well as pain around the implant margins. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
I also offer one-on-one Telehealth Appointments. If you're interested in more information please send me an email enquiries@thebreastcancerphysio.com
How soon after surgery can I start these exercises and massage?
Thank you so much for your videos. I am 4 weeks post mastectomy and 3 weeks post axillae dissection. The cording has really been giving me grief. Am seeing a specialist bc physio and that, combined with massage, is slowly helping. Just wondering if applying a warm wheat bag after massage would help ease the pain?
Hi Sandy, warmth can often help reduce neural pain so as long as the wheat bag isn't very hot and isn't applied for really long periods then yes, however, I'd also be avoiding placing the wheat bag directly on the axilla (armpit region). Rather I'd suggest placing the wheat pack on the arm itself.
Thankyou for the information. I do have a question. My masectomy and axillary clearance has left me with cording from the scar line down my chest over my ribs . I still have a seroma which has been drained X2 but they are reluctant to drain again even though the last had about 200 ml . It's hard to stretch this area and the seroma is getting more solid and painful inhibiting my range of stretching the chest . I am really uncomfortable and unsure what to do Thankyou.
Thanks so much for commenting Deborah. May I ask what country you're in? You may need to push the Medical Team to continue to drain the seroma if the last aspiration was 200mls. That is a lot of fluid. They may not be able to drain anything further if the seroma is turning into scar tissue so push the Medical Team for more information on what can be done. Let me know if the cording stretches and massage don't make enough of a difference. Jen x
Hi Jen. I had an axillary lymph node biopsy in my left armpit in March. I felt a cord that runs from under my left collarbone to my left armpit. My Dr ordered a ultrasound to rule out blood clot. Negative for clotting. I self diagnosed myself with cording in my chest. I see my Dr in a week to follow up and go over next steps. I massage my cord and stretching my pectoralis muscle but it doesn't seem like what I am doing is helping. Do you have any tips for cording that runs from collarbone to armpit?
Hi Mian! So sorry for my slow reply. I will be discussing cording in my new Facebook Private Group very soon! I've just launched The Compass Community - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with free weekly live education sessions. I will be able to answer your questions and provide more interaction with everyone on this platform. If you would like to join please click on this link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Hi, your exercises help me cope with cording, and my arm mobility is 99.9 % better. My problem now is the skin around my big scar is tight and does not stretch. After stretching and applying lotion, the skin is ok but when the lotion dried up, it begins to tighten and I can see the stretch on the skin. Is there a way the skin can adapt? Thanks, again.
Thank you for your lovely feedback. Really pleased to hear your cording and mobility is improved so much. Unfortunately radiated tissue is scarred tissue and requires a lot of ongoing maintenance to stop the condition (known as Radiation Fibrosis) from worsening. Keep applying moisturiser, stretching and if possible get to a qualified therapist who can help treat the tissue.
I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
How long does it typically take for cording to resolve, if one is doing stretches + massage? Thank you.
Hi! So sorry for my very slow reply. Cording can take anywhere from 2 weeks up to 8+ weeks if it is particularly stubborn to resolve. However, persistence pays off and the large majority of people will resolve their cording with time and exercises. Jen
Hi Jen, I don’t have an history with medical conditions and still I’ve got the cords. I have intense workout sensions everyday so can it be a reason for the occurrence
Hi Pranit, strenuous exercise may be the reason for cording but I would discuss it with your doctor. In my experience Cording is not common for people who have not had lymph nodes removed so good to discuss it with a medical professional. It is essentially nerve tension though so it may require you to do more neural stretching with your workouts. I hope this helps! Jen
Can cording occur in the arm that did not have a sentinel node removed? I had one sentinel node removed from my right side but none from the left and that is where I believe I have the cording. Thank you
Hi, to help answer your question I'll need you to send me further information - did you have a lumpectomy or Mastectomy on the Left hand side?
I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
How do I do these stretches if my elbow doesn’t straighten or stretch? It is four weeks since my Axilla node complete clearance. Thanks
Hi Jill! I'll be covering treatment for early cording in my Private Group on Facebook - The Compass Community - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with free weekly live education sessions. I will be able to answer your questions and provide more interaction with everyone on this platform. If you would like to join please click on this link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
I have auxillary cording that when I stretch thru the whole side, I have a spot on my arm that I feel extreme burning pain during the stretch. Is that more nerve entrapment than the cording? I am not able to resolve the according because of the pain when I stretch. Any suggestions? Do I just need to do more of the neural flossing?
Hi Carolyn, cording is nerve tension so the burning pain is most likely part of the cording. I would try massaging that burning area directly (if you can tolerate it). Watch my video on How To Massage Cording. Let me know if this works or not. Jen x
Hi Jen, I’m nearly 4wks post op diep reconstruction. I have so much pain under armpit and feel like I have a cord there? I have numbness in my fingers too. I don’t have a problem with range of movement thought just a slight pull when lifting arm up overhead. The pain I experience is running down the side of my diep flap too which my surgeon says I have necrotic fat there. Until today was thinking itsjust tender/painful breast tissue. Im in the public health system and nobody’s mentioned cording. Is it possible to have cording but still have good movement?
Hi Ellie, thanks for your question. With all of your symptoms I would be seeking a Physiotherapist / Physical Therapist. Are you able to access someone with Breast Cancer experience in your area? If not please message me again and I will see if I can help. Where exactly do you mean when you say 'running down the side of my DIEP Flap'? I do International Telehealth appointments so if you'd like to see me one-on-one please email me enquiries@thebreastcancerphysio.com
I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Can this happen with a breast reduction surgery? I had breast tissue taken out of both armpits as well and my right side has been really tight. I can feel the pull and it’s quite painful.
Hi Kiki! So sorry for my very delayed reply. It is possible for cording to occur following any surgical involvement in the axilla (armpit). Did you end up trying the cording stretches and if so how did you go? Jen
I don't have any such medical conditions and still have coding...can you suggest why.
Usually cording is a sign of tension so it would be worthwhile be assessed by a Physiotherapist or Physical Therapist, or just starting some neural stretching and Yoga (your own balance pending) to see if this helps.
My partner has cording but she’s never had testing, breast cancer or surgery ???
Thanks for your question. Cording is just nerve tissue that has become tight, so theoretically anyone could get cording. Try the stretching technique in this video but I would also try to work out why the nerve tissue had become tight in the first place so you can fix the cause. Jen x
I think I have cording in the breast to the armpit is this still the best neuro stretch for that
Hi, this stretch can be effective for addressing cording from breast to armpit. I have a Private Facebook Group called 'The Compass Community' - a global online Breast Cancer Education & Support Network with weekly live education sessions and Q&A. I will be able to assist you more on this platform. We'll be covering the topic of cording soon. Here is the link if you would like to join: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
I have cording in my armpit and chest.
HI WHEN CAN WOMEN START EXCERCISING FOR CORDING AFTER A LIMPECTOMY.
How do I treat the tenderness in my inner upper arm after my mastectomy . There's also numbness in my armpit
Hi Charlene, I'm addressing the armpit issue in my Private Facebook Group this coming Thursday 31 Aug AEST 9AM. If you can't make the Live a Recording will be posted. If you'd like to join here is the link: facebook.com/groups/breastcancercompasscommunity
Is myofascial release beneficial?
Hi Alynda, yes I did another video on How To Massage For Cording and essentially the technique I use is similar to myofascial release. Jen x
@@TheBreastCancerPhysio your video on cording is what helping me identify it weeks ago and bring it to the attention of my physical Therapist. The first time I mentioned she wasn’t sure I had it. By the next visit she was certain. What I learned from you kept it from getting really bad and it is much improved. Thank you!!
Cording has released in left arm . Now it looks like I have cottage cheese under my skin. What is that?
Hi Karen, I'd have to see a photo of what you're describing to assist further. If you'd like to set up a Telehealth appointment with me please send an email to enquiries@thebreastcancerphysio.com
Are you also on Instagram?
Hi Brenda! I am hoping to be on Instagram soon. I do everything myself so am just a bit stretched to add another social media platform. However, I appreciate a lot of people use Instagram so I have a meeting with a social media expert next week to see if I can get this started as well. Jen x