If you are interested this is a updated video with more questions answered and another generator test > czcams.com/video/9jkmp7-HMd4/video.htmlsi=xXySY1eyuubViBwX
Where I work we are required to shut the main breaker off at least once a year and run the generator under load once a month. They would rather know about problems in a controlled environment. Great video.
Yeah that is effectively the same test as this whether you turn the main breaker off or not it just affects the Non-Emergency loads if you turned the main breaker off but it has no difference to the generator and transfer switches
@@nics-systems-electric I think a lot depends on your environment. I could see there being some environments where it was useful to test not only that the emergency equipment itself worked, but that the correct loads had been connected to the emergency supply such that organisation could cope with the emergency.
@@petermichaelgreenyou mean, it depends on the personel not connecting any bs to the generator. I did a lot of generator controlsystems for banks, hospitals, telecom and public buildings. There are two waysx to prevent the user from connecting unnecessary stuff to the generator: Don't allow the user to make any connection to the emergency panels without permission. Install a big enough generator, to run everything like normal. That's what we did at a bank. 350kW generator, 700 liters of diesel in the generator frame plus an additional 5000 liters in an external fuel tank. Enough fuel to run 70hrs on full load and nobody knows why - probably because they just had enough money 😅 So there was no need to exclude anything from the emergency power, although they did.
@@TheATVboy17 no need for that. And load cb's wear out, when disconnected under load. Depending on the brand, you will have to send them to reman after a few houndreds up to 5000 cycles. That's why they are available as plug types for easy replacement. GFCI should be tested regularly. You are not supposed to switch them off, but to use tge test button instead.
In USA hospitals believe the NEC only requires 10 seconds before an emergency generator starts and transfers power. All beds in ICU, NICO & other critical loads had UPS'S to prevent lost of power. Hospital that I retired from had 4 natural gas generators for halve the building. Even after they spent a million dollars to rebuild the 4 generators and new controls they were PIGS. Could not run them at 90% power using load banks ( purely resistive load ) especially in warm weather. They had to install 3 starters along with 3 sets of 1,500 CCA batteries to get these at least one of these pigs started & on line before 10 seconds. Never had that problem with the 12 Diesel gen sets thru out 6 buildings.
A company, I used to work for, built a new 6 story building complete with generator, etc. , a huge CAT diesel. The first full test of the system was about 6 months after everybody had moved in. Everything was going according to plan and suddenly the generator quits. In all the prep work someone failed to fill the fuel tank(s) for the generator, seriously. The second test, a few weeks later happened without incident.
I know exactly what you mean. You do absolutely everything by the book, double & triple check everything but sods law, something that's so basic always gets over looked. I always ask questions but no one ever listens to me and when they realise I'm right, I've never gotten a "well done for pointing it out" etc, etc n the boss always gets the credit unless I'm around so they make sure that doesn't happen. I don't like having the ₽!$5 taken out of me, just because I like and enjoy my job. Even though it's something I'll never be able to do again because of a life changing bike accident which took my leg of up to the groin. I'll also never be able to wear a normal "cup type" prosthetic leg because my pelvis was smashed to bit's. I need a very specific operation if I'll ever have a chance of walking again because as it stands (no pun intended), I use my crutches to get about for everything n use my mobility scooter if I wanna go shopping or a walk for example. I miss being a sparky Soooo ducking much but all I wanna do is to find another job that I like doing, contribute to society, bench work job (because that's all I'll ever be able to do for the rest of my life unless they grow me another leg) and that pays well enough so I'm better off than being on benefits for the rest of my life which I ducking HATE with a passion. There's a stigma being on benefits as they look at me, judge me n think to themselves "Of COURSE you can work you lazy €ÛñT! Get off your crippled @₹$€ n stop scrounging off the benefits as I'm working my bum off all day for you to do duck all all-day you lazy piece of $h💩!t! 😡" which is something that I REALLY dislike as you can probably image. I was so happy before my accident as I had the best boss n job going and I could see how the rest of my life was going to end up and it was going to be amazing. I'd have a gf who's got a decent job, an right car, who's only had long terms relationship, with a low body count, who's happy, doesn't want kid's, doesn't want marriage and who's doesn't want drama and enjoys looking after our home. Buuuuut I ducked that up by hitting a lamppost and no bleeding out at the scene. My life's gone to $h💩!t because of my accident and that's only going to change once I get my life back by getting another job I enjoy that pays just as well or even better. I just can't stand how much sparky's are earning these days as it's such a kick in the nu🥜ts! 😪😔😞
I've worked in places where they replaced all the 11KV switch gear and 3 new genny's with a big old slab of steel that's connected to the genny's so there constantly spinny and as soon as the powers lost they start instantly. As soon as the engine's are stable they switch over which takes less than 5sec n there's 3 of them. I'm pretty sure their 5MW each at 415/240V which goes into a 11KV transformer that goes into all the 11KV switch gear. That place was just a random bog standard building in London but it's actually a BT center where all the phone lines go in. I took some pics on my 3 phone and the battery bank was ducking HUGE n it was on 5 floors. The batteries must of been around 1.2m height by 1m wide and 0.8m thick n the plastic was clear so you can see inside them n they were all lead acid. I did count but can't remember but there must of been well over 250 of them n they were for the UPS's. I've never seen buss bars so big in my life! The 11KV cables came from the sub basement and went to all 5 floor and they went into a dry 11KV - 415/240V transformer with 3 400x4mm SWA's (Steel Wire Armoured) coming out into a panel with a 4000A main switch. That's when I found out JUST how much money there is in scrap copper as I accidentally threw some of it in the skip. It was the boss that told me to never touch someone else's scrap copper and I'm pretty sure they go it out the skip as I must of thrown away at least a couple hundred quids worth in the bin without even realising it. I was green so I never even knew and I through I was just helping them get rid of their rubbish 🤦🏻♂️
@@deepsleep7822 that's why generators are never used directly to power computers no generator will start fast enough for electronic equipment to not experience a delay that is why just like in this video there is always a UPS to cover the generator starting
Great informative video and systems test. With the upmost respect and a piece of humour, you dont even look old enough to leave school however your knowledge, qualifications and presentation skills are highly commendable
In the early 90's one summer I worked in the maintence department at one of the major Drug Store chains (who later got bought bout by CVS). I got to go the one week with them to "test the generators" (there were 3 total between the two buildings). I was first amazed as the size of the engines on them. Then I asked how they run the test. He goes over to a big rocker switch, says "see this? Is the main cut off for the building." Then he simply shut it off. I thought they would do some "simulated" test of getting it to startup.
We were taught to take in a deep breath & ho!d it while operating circuit breakers or safety switches. Reason being if an arc fault occurs you would not breath in air as hot ad 10,000 degrees & burning your lungs. Also taught to stand on one side of a breaker or safety switch while operating. Our chief electrician wanted us to wear our tinted face shield and rubber gloves on while switching anything over 100 amps. In the US we loose an electrician every day thru electrocution, arc fault or an arc blast incident. You stated that you only use two minutes for cool down. All of the 16 generators that we had in 6 buildings had a 5 minute cool down. We had to test run generators every week for 10 minutes and once a month on load banks to prevent wet stacking on diesel gen sets.
Thanks for posting. I wish I would have done a video of the generator system at the hospital I used to work at. I got to watch them do a manual transfer once, but didn't record it. I have two videos of them running on this channel, but it's them running from the outside. Those generator actually give the hospital 100% generator power during an outage which isn't typical. The hospital I work at now they have two generators, but it's just the red plugs and certain lights which is more common.
Ha, just tested our emergency generator today lol. It's a 6 KW unit: if the power gets cut for some reason, we lug it on the balcony to power our servers and, if need be, our satellite uplink. We're a small-ish IT company, but we got our emergency procedures locked down. We'll keep our uptime contracts, even if the rest of the city goes to hell. There just ain't no rest for the wicked.
At a datacenter I work at there's twelve 2MW generators and a UPS bank large enough to support full load for 15 minutes. When cutting over the lights and AC units go partially/mostly out for around 10 seconds just like in this video. it's kinda scary when it happens unexpectedly while working on the DC floor as lights and DB levels drop by 50%. But the critical load (75% of the load I guess) cannot go out, ever. They do a full cutover at least 4 times per year.
I’m surprised they don’t have emergency lighting that should switch on when the power is gone, each fitting has its own battery (usually recommend a two of them close to each other, just in case one of them fails, and don’t place them too far away from each other)
@@SuperSpecies : the battery system we had was rated for 15 minutes. It was to give the generator time to spin up and come online. We had a critical clock that if the generator failed, we had time to start shutdown procedures for the equipment. Some equipment doesn’t like to abruptly loose power.
Nice video. Really like that you took the time to identify some of the code requirements around emergency power and system separation. Well done, thank you!!
Nice clean installation. Instills confidence in client. After looking at the one line diagram, I will make the following suggestion. Add SPDs (Surge Protective Devices) on the load (output) of the transfer switches. The diagram does show a 200kA TVSS (Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor). The industry changed the nomenclature of TVSSs to SPDs about 20-years ago. A 200kA SPD is fairly beefy and a good choice. 200kA means the the SPD is capable of taking one 200,000 transient amp. “Spike” without failing. My recommendation is based on 40-years of industry experience. Once the transfer switches transfer to the generator, there is no protection for the critical loads. The loads are then exposed to whatever transients (spikes) or high-frequency noise the generator may produce. One of our clients generator’s voltage regulator failed and produced an overvoltage which damaged equipment in their data center. One SPD on PNL ED1 and one on PNL EB. We want to protect the front end UPS electronics from being damaged from switching transients from the transfer switch. We also want to capture any reactive spikes that may be generated during an outage when the transfer from generator to utility. Think of a coil (same as a transformer) in a car with the points opening on the primary side and the high voltage spike on the secondary which fires the spark plug. We have seen damage to UPSs and other facility electronics. Quality UPSs have internal bypass switches that wrap-around the guts of the UPS if the UPS senses an internal failure and the utility source is available. We have seen front end spikes “confuse” the UPS Bypass logic and put the UPS into bypass even though the utility is not available or it flickers right after power is restored. Finally, glad to see that there is a delay once the transfer from generator to utility starts. We have seen a push towards high-speed transfer switches. There have been instances where there is stored energy in the electrical distribution, but it is decaying in voltage and frequency. When the utility closes, the two sources are out of sync. This can trip breakers and cause physical damage. Additional SPDs may be warranted on critical equipment. Such as the fryers in the kitchen. We know that the students will get grumpy if they can’t get their fries.
I wished we had 600 volt here in the US. Higher voltage is always better. Motors start so much more efficiently, current is lower so you can use a smaller wire.
Thanks to your boss (I'm assuming) for allowing you to take time out if the day to make these videos, you're awesome man! Are you an apprentice or finished already? You're going to be next level when you start your own business or take over.
Thanks I appreciate it. I am currently an apprentice, I am grateful to have a journeyman who allows me to show some of the work such as the testing like this that are supposed to be done monthly on CZcams. Thanks for your comment
@@nics-systems-electric I'm left wondering why code requires two transfer switches when you are also driving a UPS with the generator. Also, the transfer switch should juggle phase so when it goes off of generator and reconnected the mains to the UPS there isn't any phase jitter from MAINS/GEN/MAINS again to the UPS. I had some electrical work done and the guy crossed the phases, eg: 1,3,2 instead of 1,2,3, and wouldn't change it back saying his work was correct and the prior was not. We had to do an emergency shut down since our UPS was only good for about 30 minutes, and the phase change required a power off for the load side. Fortunately, I wrote programs to do just that on the servers except the E-911 which had to be shut down manually. (It was E-rate, they didn't let us do anything to E-rate stuff much.)
running it like this while the grid is up from my own experience is also useful when the utility company asks for some loads to be shed or turned off. also means if the grid does go off during a time when they do call for such that those critical loads are already on generator or even solar for those who can use it
This was actually implemented here in the Philippines (Interruptible Load Program). Those businesses that have sizable generators can enroll into the program and be reimbursed for the fuel used. They will be called upon by the power company during peak hours to disconnect from the grid and use their own generators.
@@markarca6360 It's not exactly the same but in Massachusetts if you have a supported grid-interactive battery backup system (like Tesla PowerWall) you will get paid handsomely for discharging into the grid at times of peak load. It's all automatic on the customer's side.
Cool to see a Douglas Lighting Control system in that school. Super clean install. Have you had any issues with the system? Ive found them to be quite a good system. It's too bad their parent company shut them down last year. So many great installs all over Canada and even into the US.
Definitely a good idea. Every full system generator system test that I did we found something wrong. Generally, things that were connected to generator power that weren't supposed to be, and vice versa. In one case we found that the actuators that allowed fresh air into the generator room weren't fed from the generator, so it would have been just a matter of time before the generator overheated and shut down.
Yeah absolutely that's definitely much easier to find in a power outage too. Just much more obvious what isn't on generator. But you definitely find things that make you wonder what thought process was to not put things on emergency power.
@@nics-systems-electric Like the job I was on where we found that the entire heating system was backed up by the generator...except for the boiler controls. What I couldn't believe was how many times someone fed all the battery packs from the EM panels. It's not only a Code issue, but also dumb. When the power goes out so do all the regular lights, but the battery packs never turn on because their 120V never dies. Augggh
@@ghost307 the battery operated emergency lights in this building are on generator circuits but that's fine because they will still operate during the switchover time of no power it would be different if they were on the UPS panel then they would never come on
@@nics-systems-electric We must be working under different codes. In the jurisdictions that I work in the code (USA NEC 700-12E) requires them to be fed from the same branch circuit as the regular lighting in the same area.
@@ghost307 our emergency lighting is required to be on other a lighting circuit or with exit signs it's fine for it to be on generator power as if the generator is running so will the normal lighting that is also emergency lighting during a power outage. Should the generator fail and you lose your emergency lighting fixtures then the battery back up will come on this building only has it in the electrical room and generator room
This was very cool to see, Nic! I really like to hear this generator start up! Just one question, being that this generator runs on diesel, does it have to use Diesel Exhaust Fluid? Commonly referred to as "DEF"?
In the video You can see that the exhaust comes out of the turbo and then goes directly into the muffler, which is then piped through the wall to the outside. Most older generators do not have a DEF system because they run very little and therefor produce very little pollution. Unless the generator is being tested, as it is in this video, it just sits around waiting for the power to go out.
@@nics-systems-electric in the states it's starting to become required, some of us are starting to gobble up as many ole Detroit's as we can get our hands on. In a pinch I don't want to worry about DEF and weather or not the system is plugged or some other random issue. 2 strokes just do it better.
A bank I worked at scheduled a offline load test for its generators. They were in part of an underground car park 😮 and they wheeled in the load bank and started the test. Forgot about the sprinkler system... Fire brigade got a nice practice callout to turn off the water...
Hey I’m new here and been going through your videos since I subscribed and was wondering you a electrician or fire alarm technician? Are you licensed in fire alarm and if so what books did you study? Or are you just a licensed electrician that works on fire alarm?
Considering that the school is used as a shelter, you should have two generators, breakdown redundancy and during service on number one. Other than that, it's a great setup.
That would be required if it was direct life safety such as a hospital where it could be life and death if you lose power. the schools that are used for shelters do not require a secondary generator same as the fire departments and other similar buildings that is not directly keeping someone alive.
We already have this, it’s great and has paid itself off, running most house appliances for 8 years. 118kwh of lead acid batteries previously used in a cell tower UPS system, and when they’re low, can be charged off a generator. We still have the grid connected most of the time. but it can last about 24-36 hours with no solar/grid connected at all. With solar connected it’s self sufficient and never needs grid most days. As we had super bad unreliable power.
@@ItsYaboiiZacTelecom batteries, these are tall batteries, primarily used in cell towers. They are sealed lead-acid, particularly AGM (absorbable glass mat) type. You should maintain at least 50% to 55% of reserved charge capacity with this type of battery, because it will degrade over time with excessive discharge. Lithium-based batteries minimize these reserve capacity degradation.
It’s neat to watch when everything works as it should. I’ve been involved in a couple where it didn’t and that usually means I’d loose a few more hours on another weekend.
Interesting the random things you editing software decided to dither, the Scotchlite in your jacket, and some of the text on the fire alarm panel. Will there be some sort of protective cage, or thermal blanket for the exhaust manifold, turbo housing and flex pipe?
Nice vidio nic. I love your vidios. When is the vidio abaout the replesing the fire alarm in the school comming out? And damm that generator sounds! Hope you are doing moree vidios on this school.
Very interesting video!!! I live right off a main power corridor. Rarely lose power. Last week power issues. On and off up to a dozen times in 30 mins. My home UPS performed as expected..but how does a system like in this video react to main grid pulses...from as little as 3 secs to 5 minutes and variant on/off times?
Modern building systems are wild. Fire alarm integration, automatic lighting integration, all the vent systems. I am curious why it forces lighting on? Or is that because you assume the lighting controller will go down?
It's because your emergency lighting needs to turn on to ensure proper egress as other lights will go out that could potentially be what is keeping the space illuminated
Find these interesting. When the fire alarm goes off at this school does it shut down all air handlers and condenser systems? (HVAC). At mine which was built in 2020, we have a chiller and boiler system with air handlers for each room, all of that shuts down when the fire alarm gets activated. Johnson Controls (York) brand. Source: the company I work at does maintenance for the school
Only units that provide air to multiple zones which aren't many there's no point of shutting down chillers it would be the same as shutting down gas boilers which is pointless as that doesn't have any effect on the air containing smoke travelling through multiple fire separations
@@nics-systems-electric yeah I guess they did that because I believe it’s code in my state to shut off all sources of heating & cooling. The boilers also use propane (LP) so that would be kinda bad to be running while there’s a fire
It seems like the transfer switches take a while to switch from emergency to normal source, almost like the transfer switch is staying in a neutral position for a few seconds. Im talking about the period when the battery backup emergency lights are lit.
It needs to wait a second it can't be instantaneous or it can be damaging to any large motors running off of it if you have a sudden frequency change without a interruption
@@nics-systems-electricYes, this is the correct reason for the no-power delay before re-transfer. This delay can be eliminated on some transfer switches with the added optional "in-phase monitor" which waits until the generator and utility phases (due to slightly different frequencies) are exactly the same and then does an instant "slam over" type transfer, so the lights don't even blink!
Not quite this is a diesel most cars are gasoline and this is equipped with a block heater that is constantly circulating hot water through the cooling system and this has to go straight to 1800 RPM there is no time to idle first
What's the high-pitched whine I hear in the generator room before the generator starts up? You can listen to it as soon as the power goes out and your timer reaches 0
@@nics-systems-electric ahhh, well it had a LED Light on it, so i figured it was something important :) good work though, i love your absolutely clean construction.
I'm looking at getting a Generator for Power failure to keep my Servers / Data Center online without any downtime, I have battery backups UPS's that can run up to 30mins on battery. Could you tell me what would be needed and another question, What happens to the Power from Generator when the grid power comes back online? I am in the UK our AC voltage is 240v but if the Generator is running and the Grid Power comes back online that is 480volts right there I am a bit worried of pupping 480volts into two UPS's and the rest of the kit. I am guessing that the Transfer Box handles this? Thanks
You need generator and transfer switch. When utility power is restored both power sources will be present at the generator transfer switch but it will still be powered off generator for a short period of time until it decides the utility power is stable and then will switch over to utility power and disconnect from generator power
Thanks for the reply. I will have to do some research. Any of those Generators you work on able to do SMS or Email Notifications? @@nics-systems-electric
Doesn’t seem like that generator is under much of a load, was there just not much load to run that day, or does is it deliberately oversized? If it’s not running 70-80% do you have to periodically load bank it to keep it cleaned out?
@@nics-systems-electric That makes sense, it just wasn’t clear, or at least to me during the test if it was running it’s normal load during an outage or if the function test was at a lesser load than normal.
I really really really hope those vents did not auto open... I hope someone opened them by flipping the switch AFTER it started and is known to be safe... Thats a big safety thing if they are auto opening, could let outside air in and that will end up killing ppl...
I explained in the video that it is legally required to be there because it's a community emergency shelter and the fire alarm system still has to work in a power outage
I used to work in a high school theater that also rented the space for profit, and we once lost a leg of the 3 phase during one of those non school related shows. It triggered the generator to run which switched the relays for some of the audience and stage work lights to come on. We had to figure out how to get the relays to switch back off and also move some of the front stage lighting to working circuits on the other legs so it wouldn't disturb the show any further. The show actually never stopped, and the audience wasn't even aware of a partial power outage. They just thought some yahoo messed up lighting cues. Whenever I was in the main electrical room, I had to fight the intrusive thought to push the trip button on the huge main breaker.
Are you apprenticing or just helping? It sounds like you know a lot for someone your age! (I think you told me you're 17 in another reply...I miss my youth!)
@@nics-systems-electric Great stuff, reminds me of myself when younger. Could have gone either the electrical route or the IT route. Did the latter and occasionally regret it now, but dare say I'd be saying the same regardless of which way I went. In any case, I always feel like some of us were just made to do jobs like this and just pick things up very quickly, and you definitely seem to be one of those. Cheers man, hope you go far.
I don't have a choice with these MCCB's you have to flip and hold up the lockout tab. Kind of the same as some manual transfer switches where you have to push the tab while using the handle to switch sources.
I wanna flip the giant breaker... Besides that, is _all_ the emergency lighting run off the generator? When I was in high school we had one outage where the generator failed to start. IIRC a handful of the hallway lights were running on battery.
The big breaker just does the whole service it's not as exciting to flip as you might think lol and generator powers all emergency lighting. But there is still battery back up units in specific areas
When I worked in a theater of a school, and I had to go into the main electrical room, I wanted to hit the main so bad. It had a big knob on the end of it ,too. It was asking for it.
some of those generators are built so that they can run for 3 years without shutting off, as long as the oil is changed. can buy 5000 gallon fuel skids
@@nics-systems-electric of all things, i got a 7000 watt dewalt generator out of a scrap bin for $50... and i have a short plan to weld and bolt some joints to the crankshaft on the cars 4.6L V8 triton engine thru its old differential to turn it at 75hz not 60hz, with the actual engine hardly braking 1500rpm... it does not have a voltage regulator and does have a self magnetizing core... but its odd what voltages i might get out of it as it is a combined 3 phase 240 volt unit at 60hz with a 240v 24amp main braker... think the wire was 600 volt but if 75hz pushes it to 280 volt with a peak of 408 volt on the wave... for having a welder plugged into it, that should make holding and arc easy because of the line voltage but its a 6kw main braker so it might trip a lot. been about 10 years sense i was in a school, but that's a lite end project that could end up fixing something on a larger end of things if it did go out. would not be the V8 triton dropping off like the 380cc single cylinder but if it's amperage alone that trips a braker the peak on that 280 volt would look like 13KVA momentarily 530 volt with the 1000 volt frequency shift. not concerned with burning it out, it has a braker switch. think some power grids were 75hz so they had to make those generators able to run that, tho the little engine they come with cant keep up. think some people use them portable units to back feed power into there house thru a welder plug and it just trips the small panel braker when the mains come on... if the meters have digitized enough to realize there back feeding the grid or not? the spiny disk spins one way...
They are in some schools but not this one. elevators are a massive load. you aren't necessarily stuck though as modern elevators have battery back up to provide enough power to platform them and open the doors
Block heaters are generally hooked to utility power keeping the engine close to operating temperature at all times. Grid heaters are generally controlled by whatever device is responsible for startup, but generally a redundant feature seeing as the engine would already be close to operating temperature due to the block heater.
If power is out they will still cancel school. It's just that some buildings need to have a generator because some of the critical life safety systems have to have power to operate
When I was in school if power went out (happened a couple of times) we would just have stayed there, sure it was when we did use blackboards and paper, maybe now that we have digital blackboards is more of an issue. The issue back in the day was that the bell couldn't ring, and thus you did not know when the lesson did finish. Anyway a power outage rarely lasted more than a couple of minutes, at best hours. I think that critical systems are powered by UPS anyway (red sockets) and emergency lights/fire alarm are usually battery powered.
Can only wonder what this costly extravagance cost the taxpayers, homeowners and elderly homeowners struggling to pay the high property taxes on their SS checks
This is Canada so our school taxes do not change on where you live. Schools are equally funded regardless of the economic situation of the community. It is important to have safe schools with functioning life safety systems during a power outage.
8:50 Potentially a real noob question but, are the damper actuators fail-safe? I.e. if the solenoid/motor/whatever it is fails, the damper opens and fault codes until someone can attend to replace it? I can imagine that the people using the place as an emergency shelter wouldn't be able to identify this simple fault in a pinch, especially if it became dangerous to enter the generator room due to hazardous atmosphere.
I don't believe it is fail safe as one has failed before and the room did get extremely hot however the generator did not mind or have any extra high temperatures as it still seems to pull air over the radiator just fine however the room temperature was not comfortable at all for humans if it was a air cooled generator it would be much more of a problem I would think
If you are interested this is a updated video with more questions answered and another generator test > czcams.com/video/9jkmp7-HMd4/video.htmlsi=xXySY1eyuubViBwX
Damn, that’s one hell of a nice high school
Some high schools get designated as emergency shelters because generally they are reasonably suited for it.
Where I work we are required to shut the main breaker off at least once a year and run the generator under load once a month. They would rather know about problems in a controlled environment. Great video.
Yeah that is effectively the same test as this whether you turn the main breaker off or not it just affects the Non-Emergency loads if you turned the main breaker off but it has no difference to the generator and transfer switches
@@nics-systems-electric I think a lot depends on your environment. I could see there being some environments where it was useful to test not only that the emergency equipment itself worked, but that the correct loads had been connected to the emergency supply such that organisation could cope with the emergency.
@@petermichaelgreenyou mean, it depends on the personel not connecting any bs to the generator.
I did a lot of generator controlsystems for banks, hospitals, telecom and public buildings. There are two waysx to prevent the user from connecting unnecessary stuff to the generator:
Don't allow the user to make any connection to the emergency panels without permission.
Install a big enough generator, to run everything like normal. That's what we did at a bank. 350kW generator, 700 liters of diesel in the generator frame plus an additional 5000 liters in an external fuel tank. Enough fuel to run 70hrs on full load and nobody knows why - probably because they just had enough money 😅 So there was no need to exclude anything from the emergency power, although they did.
I have heard that you are suppose to exercise your breakers especially the main.
@@TheATVboy17 no need for that. And load cb's wear out, when disconnected under load. Depending on the brand, you will have to send them to reman after a few houndreds up to 5000 cycles. That's why they are available as plug types for easy replacement.
GFCI should be tested regularly. You are not supposed to switch them off, but to use tge test button instead.
In USA hospitals believe the NEC only requires 10 seconds before an emergency generator starts and transfers power. All beds in ICU, NICO & other critical loads had UPS'S to prevent lost of power. Hospital that I retired from had 4 natural gas generators for halve the building. Even after they spent a million dollars to rebuild the 4 generators and new controls they were PIGS. Could not run them at 90% power using load banks ( purely resistive load ) especially in warm weather. They had to install 3 starters along with 3 sets of 1,500 CCA batteries to get these at least one of these pigs started & on line before 10 seconds. Never had that problem with the 12 Diesel gen sets thru out 6 buildings.
A company, I used to work for, built a new 6 story building complete with generator, etc. , a huge CAT diesel. The first full test of the system was about 6 months after everybody had moved in. Everything was going according to plan and suddenly the generator quits. In all the prep work someone failed to fill the fuel tank(s) for the generator, seriously. The second test, a few weeks later happened without incident.
I know exactly what you mean.
You do absolutely everything by the book, double & triple check everything but sods law, something that's so basic always gets over looked. I always ask questions but no one ever listens to me and when they realise I'm right, I've never gotten a "well done for pointing it out" etc, etc n the boss always gets the credit unless I'm around so they make sure that doesn't happen.
I don't like having the ₽!$5 taken out of me, just because I like and enjoy my job. Even though it's something I'll never be able to do again because of a life changing bike accident which took my leg of up to the groin. I'll also never be able to wear a normal "cup type" prosthetic leg because my pelvis was smashed to bit's. I need a very specific operation if I'll ever have a chance of walking again because as it stands (no pun intended), I use my crutches to get about for everything n use my mobility scooter if I wanna go shopping or a walk for example.
I miss being a sparky Soooo ducking much but all I wanna do is to find another job that I like doing, contribute to society, bench work job (because that's all I'll ever be able to do for the rest of my life unless they grow me another leg) and that pays well enough so I'm better off than being on benefits for the rest of my life which I ducking HATE with a passion. There's a stigma being on benefits as they look at me, judge me n think to themselves "Of COURSE you can work you lazy €ÛñT! Get off your crippled @₹$€ n stop scrounging off the benefits as I'm working my bum off all day for you to do duck all all-day you lazy piece of $h💩!t! 😡" which is something that I REALLY dislike as you can probably image.
I was so happy before my accident as I had the best boss n job going and I could see how the rest of my life was going to end up and it was going to be amazing. I'd have a gf who's got a decent job, an right car, who's only had long terms relationship, with a low body count, who's happy, doesn't want kid's, doesn't want marriage and who's doesn't want drama and enjoys looking after our home.
Buuuuut I ducked that up by hitting a lamppost and no bleeding out at the scene. My life's gone to $h💩!t because of my accident and that's only going to change once I get my life back by getting another job I enjoy that pays just as well or even better.
I just can't stand how much sparky's are earning these days as it's such a kick in the nu🥜ts! 😪😔😞
That is one surprisingly fast transition from utility power to the generator springing to life in just 12 seconds! 😮
I've worked in places where they replaced all the 11KV switch gear and 3 new genny's with a big old slab of steel that's connected to the genny's so there constantly spinny and as soon as the powers lost they start instantly. As soon as the engine's are stable they switch over which takes less than 5sec n there's 3 of them. I'm pretty sure their 5MW each at 415/240V which goes into a 11KV transformer that goes into all the 11KV switch gear.
That place was just a random bog standard building in London but it's actually a BT center where all the phone lines go in. I took some pics on my 3 phone and the battery bank was ducking HUGE n it was on 5 floors. The batteries must of been around 1.2m height by 1m wide and 0.8m thick n the plastic was clear so you can see inside them n they were all lead acid. I did count but can't remember but there must of been well over 250 of them n they were for the UPS's. I've never seen buss bars so big in my life!
The 11KV cables came from the sub basement and went to all 5 floor and they went into a dry 11KV - 415/240V transformer with 3 400x4mm SWA's (Steel Wire Armoured) coming out into a panel with a 4000A main switch.
That's when I found out JUST how much money there is in scrap copper as I accidentally threw some of it in the skip. It was the boss that told me to never touch someone else's scrap copper and I'm pretty sure they go it out the skip as I must of thrown away at least a couple hundred quids worth in the bin without even realising it. I was green so I never even knew and I through I was just helping them get rid of their rubbish 🤦🏻♂️
12 seconds is 11.9 seconds too long sadly
@@glitter_fart : agreed: for computer equipment, that’s an eternity.
@@TheManLab7telehouse?
@@deepsleep7822 that's why generators are never used directly to power computers no generator will start fast enough for electronic equipment to not experience a delay that is why just like in this video there is always a UPS to cover the generator starting
Great informative video and systems test. With the upmost respect and a piece of humour, you dont even look old enough to leave school however your knowledge, qualifications and presentation skills are highly commendable
Thats for sharing my dude. It's awesome to see videos from places most don't get to see.
Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed
In the early 90's one summer I worked in the maintence department at one of the major Drug Store chains (who later got bought bout by CVS). I got to go the one week with them to "test the generators" (there were 3 total between the two buildings). I was first amazed as the size of the engines on them. Then I asked how they run the test. He goes over to a big rocker switch, says "see this? Is the main cut off for the building." Then he simply shut it off. I thought they would do some "simulated" test of getting it to startup.
We were taught to take in a deep breath & ho!d it while operating circuit breakers or safety switches. Reason being if an arc fault occurs you would not breath in air as hot ad 10,000 degrees & burning your lungs. Also taught to stand on one side of a breaker or safety switch while operating. Our chief electrician wanted us to wear our tinted face shield and rubber gloves on while switching anything over 100 amps. In the US we loose an electrician every day thru electrocution, arc fault or an arc blast incident. You stated that you only use two minutes for cool down. All of the 16 generators that we had in 6 buildings had a 5 minute cool down. We had to test run generators every week for 10 minutes and once a month on load banks to prevent wet stacking on diesel gen sets.
Yes for sure standoff to one side and look away
Thanks for posting. I wish I would have done a video of the generator system at the hospital I used to work at. I got to watch them do a manual transfer once, but didn't record it. I have two videos of them running on this channel, but it's them running from the outside. Those generator actually give the hospital 100% generator power during an outage which isn't typical. The hospital I work at now they have two generators, but it's just the red plugs and certain lights which is more common.
I retired from a large hospital that had 4 2,000KW & 3 760 KW generators and could handle the 22 elevators but less then valve of normal.power loads.
“Usually your fuel doesn’t go up from running it” implies that occasionally it has haha😂😂😂
Thanks for filming and posting these types of videos.
Yeah, it doesn't just refuel itself out of thin air, you would violate almost every known law of physics lol
You definitely pass my examination, great job and understanding of things .
Ha, just tested our emergency generator today lol.
It's a 6 KW unit: if the power gets cut for some reason, we lug it on the balcony to power our servers and, if need be, our satellite uplink. We're a small-ish IT company, but we got our emergency procedures locked down. We'll keep our uptime contracts, even if the rest of the city goes to hell. There just ain't no rest for the wicked.
At a datacenter I work at there's twelve 2MW generators and a UPS bank large enough to support full load for 15 minutes. When cutting over the lights and AC units go partially/mostly out for around 10 seconds just like in this video. it's kinda scary when it happens unexpectedly while working on the DC floor as lights and DB levels drop by 50%. But the critical load (75% of the load I guess) cannot go out, ever. They do a full cutover at least 4 times per year.
I can only imagine the 15 minutes of that backup UPS is just for hand off for the back up generators. lights go out systems stay online yea?
I’m surprised they don’t have emergency lighting that should switch on when the power is gone, each fitting has its own battery (usually recommend a two of them close to each other, just in case one of them fails, and don’t place them too far away from each other)
Those cutovers are high pucker factors every time. I never will get used to them.
@@MrPartyWafflebigger DCs use rotary UPSes which only last for 18 seconds :)
@@SuperSpecies : the battery system we had was rated for 15 minutes. It was to give the generator time to spin up and come online. We had a critical clock that if the generator failed, we had time to start shutdown procedures for the equipment. Some equipment doesn’t like to abruptly loose power.
Nice video. Really like that you took the time to identify some of the code requirements around emergency power and system separation. Well done, thank you!!
Wow this is a great simulation of the generator test, Nice content here Nic!
Thank you!
Nice clean installation. Instills confidence in client. After looking at the one line diagram, I will make the following suggestion. Add SPDs (Surge Protective Devices) on the load (output) of the transfer switches.
The diagram does show a 200kA TVSS (Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor). The industry changed the nomenclature of TVSSs to SPDs about 20-years ago. A 200kA SPD is fairly beefy and a good choice. 200kA means the the SPD is capable of taking one 200,000 transient amp. “Spike” without failing.
My recommendation is based on 40-years of industry experience. Once the transfer switches transfer to the generator, there is no protection for the critical loads.
The loads are then exposed to whatever transients (spikes) or high-frequency noise the generator may produce. One of our clients generator’s voltage regulator failed and produced an overvoltage which damaged equipment in their data center.
One SPD on PNL ED1 and one on PNL EB. We want to protect the front end UPS electronics from being damaged from switching transients from the transfer switch. We also want to capture any reactive spikes that may be generated during an outage when the transfer from generator to utility. Think of a coil (same as a transformer) in a car with the points opening on the primary side and the high voltage spike on the secondary which fires the spark plug.
We have seen damage to UPSs and other facility electronics. Quality UPSs have internal bypass switches that wrap-around the guts of the UPS if the UPS senses an internal failure and the utility source is available. We have seen front end spikes “confuse” the UPS Bypass logic and put the UPS into bypass even though the utility is not available or it flickers right after power is restored.
Finally, glad to see that there is a delay once the transfer from generator to utility starts. We have seen a push towards high-speed transfer switches. There have been instances where there is stored energy in the electrical distribution, but it is decaying in voltage and frequency. When the utility closes, the two sources are out of sync. This can trip breakers and cause physical damage.
Additional SPDs may be warranted on critical equipment. Such as the fryers in the kitchen. We know that the students will get grumpy if they can’t get their fries.
Thanks for the comment I appreciate your insight you have highlighted a lot of important details that are often overlooked.
Nice system setup! Awesome test!
I wished we had 600 volt here in the US. Higher voltage is always better. Motors start so much more efficiently, current is lower so you can use a smaller wire.
Honestly the nicest part about 600V is for motors generally your HP is your A. Makes really convenient sanity checks
That was pretty cool. I saw inside an old cinema inlet once from the 1930s and it was fascinating.
I've never once seen one of these tests performed, that was very cool!
I didn’t hear the generator sound change at all when the load switched on. Pretty cool.
I heard it for both events. When the generator went online, then offline.
Yeah you can hear it slightly but it's only loaded around 30% so it's not a significant change
Nice video, I like it, the generator looks nice. I like the work you do it’s very informative 👍🏻.
Thanks! 👍
Love the video I always find the generator videos so interesting
This was awesome to watch Nic
Nice demo. Here in the US the total time limit for power backup from the genny is 10 seconds.
I used to work in a computer backup protection center. Very similar setup.
cool demo! 💪
Thanks to your boss (I'm assuming) for allowing you to take time out if the day to make these videos, you're awesome man! Are you an apprentice or finished already? You're going to be next level when you start your own business or take over.
Thanks I appreciate it. I am currently an apprentice, I am grateful to have a journeyman who allows me to show some of the work such as the testing like this that are supposed to be done monthly on CZcams. Thanks for your comment
@@nics-systems-electric I'm left wondering why code requires two transfer switches when you are also driving a UPS with the generator. Also, the transfer switch should juggle phase so when it goes off of generator and reconnected the mains to the UPS there isn't any phase jitter from MAINS/GEN/MAINS again to the UPS.
I had some electrical work done and the guy crossed the phases, eg: 1,3,2 instead of 1,2,3, and wouldn't change it back saying his work was correct and the prior was not.
We had to do an emergency shut down since our UPS was only good for about 30 minutes, and the phase change required a power off for the load side.
Fortunately, I wrote programs to do just that on the servers except the E-911 which had to be shut down manually. (It was E-rate, they didn't let us do anything to E-rate stuff much.)
Very interesting video! 👍
running it like this while the grid is up from my own experience is also useful when the utility company asks for some loads to be shed or turned off. also means if the grid does go off during a time when they do call for such that those critical loads are already on generator or even solar for those who can use it
This was actually implemented here in the Philippines (Interruptible Load Program). Those businesses that have sizable generators can enroll into the program and be reimbursed for the fuel used. They will be called upon by the power company during peak hours to disconnect from the grid and use their own generators.
@@markarca6360 It's not exactly the same but in Massachusetts if you have a supported grid-interactive battery backup system (like Tesla PowerWall) you will get paid handsomely for discharging into the grid at times of peak load. It's all automatic on the customer's side.
i noticed filaments of the fluorescent lamps glow for a moment when the power switched back on. neat.
Cool to see a Douglas Lighting Control system in that school. Super clean install. Have you had any issues with the system? Ive found them to be quite a good system.
It's too bad their parent company shut them down last year. So many great installs all over Canada and even into the US.
Not too many problems
Definitely a good idea. Every full system generator system test that I did we found something wrong. Generally, things that were connected to generator power that weren't supposed to be, and vice versa.
In one case we found that the actuators that allowed fresh air into the generator room weren't fed from the generator, so it would have been just a matter of time before the generator overheated and shut down.
Yeah absolutely that's definitely much easier to find in a power outage too. Just much more obvious what isn't on generator. But you definitely find things that make you wonder what thought process was to not put things on emergency power.
@@nics-systems-electric Like the job I was on where we found that the entire heating system was backed up by the generator...except for the boiler controls.
What I couldn't believe was how many times someone fed all the battery packs from the EM panels. It's not only a Code issue, but also dumb.
When the power goes out so do all the regular lights, but the battery packs never turn on because their 120V never dies.
Augggh
@@ghost307 the battery operated emergency lights in this building are on generator circuits but that's fine because they will still operate during the switchover time of no power it would be different if they were on the UPS panel then they would never come on
@@nics-systems-electric We must be working under different codes. In the jurisdictions that I work in the code (USA NEC 700-12E) requires them to be fed from the same branch circuit as the regular lighting in the same area.
@@ghost307 our emergency lighting is required to be on other a lighting circuit or with exit signs it's fine for it to be on generator power as if the generator is running so will the normal lighting that is also emergency lighting during a power outage. Should the generator fail and you lose your emergency lighting fixtures then the battery back up will come on this building only has it in the electrical room and generator room
This was very cool to see, Nic! I really like to hear this generator start up! Just one question, being that this generator runs on diesel, does it have to use Diesel Exhaust Fluid? Commonly referred to as "DEF"?
No DEF I think as it's emergency power it doesn't need to comply with the same emission regulations
@@nics-systems-electric Oh okay, that makes sense.
In the video You can see that the exhaust comes out of the turbo and then goes directly into the muffler, which is then piped through the wall to the outside. Most older generators do not have a DEF system because they run very little and therefor produce very little pollution. Unless the generator is being tested, as it is in this video, it just sits around waiting for the power to go out.
@@nics-systems-electric in the states it's starting to become required, some of us are starting to gobble up as many ole Detroit's as we can get our hands on.
In a pinch I don't want to worry about DEF and weather or not the system is plugged or some other random issue.
2 strokes just do it better.
8:56 You still look pretty good there. 😊
A bank I worked at scheduled a offline load test for its generators. They were in part of an underground car park 😮 and they wheeled in the load bank and started the test. Forgot about the sprinkler system... Fire brigade got a nice practice callout to turn off the water...
Yes you definitely have to be mindful every time we do a load bank test we have to be conscious of sprinkler heads and heat detectors
Hey I’m new here and been going through your videos since I subscribed and was wondering you a electrician or fire alarm technician? Are you licensed in fire alarm and if so what books did you study? Or are you just a licensed electrician that works on fire alarm?
Electrical apprentice
I work at a hospital and we have many generators of all sizes and they are tested monthly.
I have Generac at my house that has one smaller transfer switch box that is powered by propane that was just used in a 10-hour blackout
We have a 30 second delay on our back up generator. The only ones with no delay are powering elevators
Wait for normal is called TDEN (time delay emergency to normal), and cooldown time is called TDEC (time delay engine cooldown)
Considering that the school is used as a shelter, you should have two generators, breakdown redundancy and during service on number one. Other than that, it's a great setup.
That would be required if it was direct life safety such as a hospital where it could be life and death if you lose power. the schools that are used for shelters do not require a secondary generator same as the fire departments and other similar buildings that is not directly keeping someone alive.
@@nics-systems-electric You will notice that I wrote "should have" and not "must have".😁
7:31 Sec Is Fredonia Orange Bowl Generator Starting
that stuff is actualy really intresting
I think the fuel sensor records what the last running level was
I’m actually gonna have my own workshop/party barn and still be running off solar power so that I don’t have to rely on the unreliable power grid
What are you going to do if there is a long period of cloudy, overcast winter weather and your solar panels don't keep your batteries charged?
Better have a ton of batteries.
We already have this, it’s great and has paid itself off, running most house appliances for 8 years. 118kwh of lead acid batteries previously used in a cell tower UPS system, and when they’re low, can be charged off a generator. We still have the grid connected most of the time. but it can last about 24-36 hours with no solar/grid connected at all. With solar connected it’s self sufficient and never needs grid most days. As we had super bad unreliable power.
@@ItsYaboiiZacTelecom batteries, these are tall batteries, primarily used in cell towers. They are sealed lead-acid, particularly AGM (absorbable glass mat) type. You should maintain at least 50% to 55% of reserved charge capacity with this type of battery, because it will degrade over time with excessive discharge. Lithium-based batteries minimize these reserve capacity degradation.
This was very interesting to watch. Thank you!
What is that big lever for in the center of the panel where you disconnected the utility power?
Main breaker
The "you're fired" switch.
I like the generator videos so much that I watched it 2 time
3rd time watching it lol
It’s neat to watch when everything works as it should. I’ve been involved in a couple where it didn’t and that usually means I’d loose a few more hours on another weekend.
In the US blue/green diesel is on road. Off road (non road-taxed) is dyed red. The hillbillys call it "red dye diesel".
My welding shop being older still runs 480 its a 800 amp transformation
Interesting the random things you editing software decided to dither, the Scotchlite in your jacket, and some of the text on the fire alarm panel. Will there be some sort of protective cage, or thermal blanket for the exhaust manifold, turbo housing and flex pipe?
Some things are blurred to maintain privacy. No there is not any guard from the hot surfaces
Sounded like a car engine starting lol. Was expecting air started diesel generators like on ships
Neat!
Love it nic my school does k-12 and has a 2000v gen
2000 V or 2000 KW? 2000 V is not a common system. there is 120/208 and 277/480 347/600
@@nics-systems-electric he probably meant either 2000 KW or 2000 KVA
its a 600v my bad@@whodatSean
they have muitable out put sources on fire the k-2 then the 3-5 the the mideel school the high school the early childhood center and a house
Nice vidio nic. I love your vidios. When is the vidio abaout the replesing the fire alarm in the school comming out? And damm that generator sounds! Hope you are doing moree vidios on this school.
Thanks. Not sure it could be a while
Hey mate we need more videos it’s been a while 🤩
cool generater test two cool ass
Very interesting video!!! I live right off a main power corridor. Rarely lose power. Last week power issues. On and off up to a dozen times in 30 mins. My home UPS performed as expected..but how does a system like in this video react to main grid pulses...from as little as 3 secs to 5 minutes and variant on/off times?
There is likely a set voltage parameter of a acceptable level it would all be in the transfer switch as far as how it determines useable utility power
Modern building systems are wild. Fire alarm integration, automatic lighting integration, all the vent systems. I am curious why it forces lighting on? Or is that because you assume the lighting controller will go down?
It's because your emergency lighting needs to turn on to ensure proper egress as other lights will go out that could potentially be what is keeping the space illuminated
@@nics-systems-electric It seems so obvious now that you say it. Thank you.
Looks like the setup for a bunker.
Find these interesting. When the fire alarm goes off at this school does it shut down all air handlers and condenser systems? (HVAC). At mine which was built in 2020, we have a chiller and boiler system with air handlers for each room, all of that shuts down when the fire alarm gets activated. Johnson Controls (York) brand. Source: the company I work at does maintenance for the school
Only units that provide air to multiple zones which aren't many there's no point of shutting down chillers it would be the same as shutting down gas boilers which is pointless as that doesn't have any effect on the air containing smoke travelling through multiple fire separations
@@nics-systems-electric yeah I guess they did that because I believe it’s code in my state to shut off all sources of heating & cooling. The boilers also use propane (LP) so that would be kinda bad to be running while there’s a fire
Nice
I love stuff like this.... I take it you have a company come in annually to service this generator and then give it a 2h Load bank test?
Yes we do I have a video of it
Damn you guys need to simulate a power outage here at least 5-6 hours a day we see power outages 😂😂😂😂
i wish ohio had more schools this nice
It seems like the transfer switches take a while to switch from emergency to normal source, almost like the transfer switch is staying in a neutral position for a few seconds. Im talking about the period when the battery backup emergency lights are lit.
It needs to wait a second it can't be instantaneous or it can be damaging to any large motors running off of it if you have a sudden frequency change without a interruption
@@nics-systems-electricYes, this is the correct reason for the no-power delay before re-transfer. This delay can be eliminated on some transfer switches with the added optional "in-phase monitor" which waits until the generator and utility phases (due to slightly different frequencies) are exactly the same and then does an instant "slam over" type transfer, so the lights don't even blink!
It’s basically a like when you cold start a car engine😂
Not quite this is a diesel most cars are gasoline and this is equipped with a block heater that is constantly circulating hot water through the cooling system and this has to go straight to 1800 RPM there is no time to idle first
@@nics-systems-electric true true man thanks for the info.😊👍
Like a car engine!
What's the high-pitched whine I hear in the generator room before the generator starts up? You can listen to it as soon as the power goes out and your timer reaches 0
More than likely a VFD - Variable Frequency Drive. It is controlling motor load(s). It will convert AC to a pulsed output to regular speed.
Hey Nic, 11:05 whats the junction box with the GREEN LED behind you.
Access control/door opener power
@@nics-systems-electric ahhh, well it had a LED Light on it, so i figured it was something important :)
good work though, i love your absolutely clean construction.
I'm looking at getting a Generator for Power failure to keep my Servers / Data Center online without any downtime, I have battery backups UPS's that can run up to 30mins on battery. Could you tell me what would be needed and another question, What happens to the Power from Generator when the grid power comes back online? I am in the UK our AC voltage is 240v but if the Generator is running and the Grid Power comes back online that is 480volts right there I am a bit worried of pupping 480volts into two UPS's and the rest of the kit. I am guessing that the Transfer Box handles this?
Thanks
You need generator and transfer switch. When utility power is restored both power sources will be present at the generator transfer switch but it will still be powered off generator for a short period of time until it decides the utility power is stable and then will switch over to utility power and disconnect from generator power
Thanks for the reply. I will have to do some research. Any of those Generators you work on able to do SMS or Email Notifications? @@nics-systems-electric
You look exactly like an ex. student we had in sweden back in 1992, is there maby a Tom or a Dartanjang in your family?
Doesn’t seem like that generator is under much of a load, was there just not much load to run that day, or does is it deliberately oversized? If it’s not running 70-80% do you have to periodically load bank it to keep it cleaned out?
It's running around 30% because it Hass to be able to be able to run the very power demanding smoke control system
@@nics-systems-electric
That makes sense, it just wasn’t clear, or at least to me during the test if it was running it’s normal load during an outage or if the function test was at a lesser load than normal.
I really really really hope those vents did not auto open... I hope someone opened them by flipping the switch AFTER it started and is known to be safe... Thats a big safety thing if they are auto opening, could let outside air in and that will end up killing ppl...
Of course they are auto opening you can't run an auto generator with manual operated vents
he got that unltd fuel mod on that genny
Looks very expensive. I'll bet the school taxes in that area are through the roof.
This is Canada so our school taxes don't change by area all schools have equal funding it is not dictated by the economic situation of the area
Meanwhile every kid in america has a phone with a flashlight app.
Every phone I've had has a flashlight built in you don't need an app. Not sure how that is relevant to the video though
What’s the estimated runtime on generator power with a typical load before all power is lost?
Seems to get around 22 hours possibly
Who the hell needs a power outage generator at a high school??
I explained in the video that it is legally required to be there because it's a community emergency shelter and the fire alarm system still has to work in a power outage
I used to work in a high school theater that also rented the space for profit, and we once lost a leg of the 3 phase during one of those non school related shows.
It triggered the generator to run which switched the relays for some of the audience and stage work lights to come on. We had to figure out how to get the relays to switch back off and also move some of the front stage lighting to working circuits on the other legs so it wouldn't disturb the show any further. The show actually never stopped, and the audience wasn't even aware of a partial power outage. They just thought some yahoo messed up lighting cues.
Whenever I was in the main electrical room, I had to fight the intrusive thought to push the trip button on the huge main breaker.
Are you apprenticing or just helping? It sounds like you know a lot for someone your age! (I think you told me you're 17 in another reply...I miss my youth!)
Using my hours at school District for first year electrical
@@nics-systems-electric Great stuff, reminds me of myself when younger. Could have gone either the electrical route or the IT route. Did the latter and occasionally regret it now, but dare say I'd be saying the same regardless of which way I went. In any case, I always feel like some of us were just made to do jobs like this and just pick things up very quickly, and you definitely seem to be one of those. Cheers man, hope you go far.
@@mikeprice2311 : went the same route as well, but was involved in some of the electrical. Working for small companies has its advantages.
I would not recommend touching multiple grounds while throwing switchs. Stay safe out there bro!
I don't have a choice with these MCCB's you have to flip and hold up the lockout tab. Kind of the same as some manual transfer switches where you have to push the tab while using the handle to switch sources.
@@nics-systems-electric I hear ya, grab some good resistant gloves trust me haha
Do like to share this video please.
I wanna flip the giant breaker... Besides that, is _all_ the emergency lighting run off the generator? When I was in high school we had one outage where the generator failed to start. IIRC a handful of the hallway lights were running on battery.
The big breaker just does the whole service it's not as exciting to flip as you might think lol and generator powers all emergency lighting. But there is still battery back up units in specific areas
When I worked in a theater of a school, and I had to go into the main electrical room, I wanted to hit the main so bad. It had a big knob on the end of it ,too. It was asking for it.
some of those generators are built so that they can run for 3 years without shutting off, as long as the oil is changed. can buy 5000 gallon fuel skids
Absolutely the duty cycles on some of the diesels are pretty impressive
@@nics-systems-electric of all things, i got a 7000 watt dewalt generator out of a scrap bin for $50... and i have a short plan to weld and bolt some joints to the crankshaft on the cars 4.6L V8 triton engine thru its old differential to turn it at 75hz not 60hz, with the actual engine hardly braking 1500rpm... it does not have a voltage regulator and does have a self magnetizing core... but its odd what voltages i might get out of it as it is a combined 3 phase 240 volt unit at 60hz with a 240v 24amp main braker... think the wire was 600 volt but if 75hz pushes it to 280 volt with a peak of 408 volt on the wave... for having a welder plugged into it, that should make holding and arc easy because of the line voltage but its a 6kw main braker so it might trip a lot. been about 10 years sense i was in a school, but that's a lite end project that could end up fixing something on a larger end of things if it did go out. would not be the V8 triton dropping off like the 380cc single cylinder but if it's amperage alone that trips a braker the peak on that 280 volt would look like 13KVA momentarily 530 volt with the 1000 volt frequency shift. not concerned with burning it out, it has a braker switch. think some power grids were 75hz so they had to make those generators able to run that, tho the little engine they come with cant keep up. think some people use them portable units to back feed power into there house thru a welder plug and it just trips the small panel braker when the mains come on... if the meters have digitized enough to realize there back feeding the grid or not? the spiny disk spins one way...
Ppl in the school be like: Ah, nic is here again.
It seems like the fuel level sensor is wired backwards if it's a 3-wire potentiometer
It seems to more often than not get stuck around 60 to 70%
Surprised it didn't even bog or drop any RPM. Thing must have like 10% load from just lighting.
About 31% load around 14,000 KW if you listen carefully you can hear a slight change in the engine
Im thinking, Elevators should be on generator power too. Because if you are in an elevator when the power goes out then you're stuck.
They are in some schools but not this one. elevators are a massive load. you aren't necessarily stuck though as modern elevators have battery back up to provide enough power to platform them and open the doors
Was that a grid heater or block heater for the first 3 seconds of the transfer to the Diesel engine?
Probably the pre-lube pump to create oil pressure prior to cranking
Block heaters are generally hooked to utility power keeping the engine close to operating temperature at all times. Grid heaters are generally controlled by whatever device is responsible for startup, but generally a redundant feature seeing as the engine would already be close to operating temperature due to the block heater.
A block heater that turns on 6 seconds before you start it isn't of much use.
None of my schools ever had a generator power outage = go home. Someone ran into a telephone poll to get out of school
If power is out they will still cancel school. It's just that some buildings need to have a generator because some of the critical life safety systems have to have power to operate
When I was in school if power went out (happened a couple of times) we would just have stayed there, sure it was when we did use blackboards and paper, maybe now that we have digital blackboards is more of an issue.
The issue back in the day was that the bell couldn't ring, and thus you did not know when the lesson did finish. Anyway a power outage rarely lasted more than a couple of minutes, at best hours.
I think that critical systems are powered by UPS anyway (red sockets) and emergency lights/fire alarm are usually battery powered.
The generator isn't there because it's a school, it's there because it's an emergency shelter.
You must do more of these videos
I do have other ones on the channel doing generator tests
I watched all of them including this
Can only wonder what this costly extravagance cost the taxpayers, homeowners and elderly homeowners struggling to pay the high property taxes on their SS checks
This is Canada so our school taxes do not change on where you live. Schools are equally funded regardless of the economic situation of the community. It is important to have safe schools with functioning life safety systems during a power outage.
6:50
8:50 Potentially a real noob question but, are the damper actuators fail-safe? I.e. if the solenoid/motor/whatever it is fails, the damper opens and fault codes until someone can attend to replace it? I can imagine that the people using the place as an emergency shelter wouldn't be able to identify this simple fault in a pinch, especially if it became dangerous to enter the generator room due to hazardous atmosphere.
I don't believe it is fail safe as one has failed before and the room did get extremely hot however the generator did not mind or have any extra high temperatures as it still seems to pull air over the radiator just fine however the room temperature was not comfortable at all for humans if it was a air cooled generator it would be much more of a problem I would think
@@nics-systems-electric sounds good - as long as CO makes it out of the space you're golden.
Nic will ù be doing a video of all what happened in 2023
how fuel do they have on hand to run something like that?
I believe around 22 hours
Imagine he did that test then the power actually went out