O'Rourke got his patties in a bunch, sorry but people wanted legit dual sport not street legal dirt bike, wr or 450x can easily be made street legal, I not going to change oil every 2 weeks and do monthly valve cks, cuts into ride time
@@jackh3522 easily made street legal in every state except California where they require the emissions, ie the bike has to be designed for on-street use from the beginning
@Bill Madd The DR-Z400S is around the weight of the CRF250L. The close-ratio 5spd is its major downfall, but aftermarket gearsets are available now. The carb isn't a dealbreaker for somebody like me. The DR-Z400S can also be shaved in weight and built to around 60WHP. The CRF450L should have been built with the CRF450X's enduro engine, not the R's MX engine. OR, Honda should have designed a long-interval 450 engine that could easily be built from mild to wild. The 450L also doesn't have passenger pegs. Even the DR-Z400S has passenger pegs. $10K and I can't even use it around town with a passenger, while I'm cringing about adding more mileage to it the whole time? I know it sounds like whining, but c'mon. I'm no marketing specialist or engineer, but these should be pretty commonsense things for a 450 dualsport. They already make a 450 race enduro, and even the 250L has passenger pegs. Even the Grom has passenger pegs.
The issue here is people confuse the term dual Sport with enduro bike. The CRF250L is a dual Sport. A WR250R is a dual Sport . A DRZ400 is a dualsport. A wr450F Is an enduro bike. A KTM 525EXC Is an enduro bike. THE 450L IS AN ENDURO, NOT A DUALSPORT A dual Sport is a bike designed to be used both on and off road. Low maintenance intervals. An enduro bike is essentially a race dirtbike, high strung engine high maintenance, that has been made street legal to legally ride between trails Honda promised us a 450 dual Sport. What they gave us was a 450 ENDURO BIKE that is slightly better on the road.
This is the one that most people can't understand for some reason, is that dual sports are supposed to be low maintenance bikes for street and dirt, not plated track only bikes.
@@E2Moto Thing is for a little more weight ( some heavier motor parts and more oil capacity)you can have a high strung motor with lower maintenance intervals.
@@stimpsonjcat26 weight is often a trade off factor for reliability. It's really hard to call the CRF450L a dual sport because of low mileage maintenance which makes it almost unsuitable for street riding. You can easily rack a LOT of miles when you commute, and then on top of that, maintenance becomes more frequent, making it more expensive as it adds up. If I were to own a CRF450L, that bike only be ridden around my town and in nearly dirt roads, and will never see highway rides. I would also never recommend this bike as first bike.
@@E2Moto I am not disagreeing. I just think if honda would have sacrificed a little (probably only a couple) on hp and put some heavier longer lasting parts in the motor it would have made more sense. That said the price is still way too high. This is the real reason companies are having a hard time selling bikes. This and the price of insurance.
I agree 100%. I bought a 2016 250L and haven't looked back. I love the bike. Brings me everywhere I want to go (as a novice - intermediate rider) and gets me home every time. Little to zero maintenance. The only issue was the battery died in year 3. So I spent $40 bucks for a new battery. Done. That's it. The thing is bulletproof. I love that I can keep it in my garage, start it up, rip out my driveway and hit the dirt roads and trails within 15 minutes from the street (I live in Vermont). Fun, pure joy and simple. Easy living and always ready to ride at the push of a button. For $5K it's a no brainier.
I had purchased my Rally and 6 weeks later the 450 was on the showroom. I was a little perturbed until I dug and found the service interval on the 450. I’d still like to ride the 450, but as for owning, not so much. Glad I have the 250.
I agree, my 17 250l is my second, very customizable and all kind of parts and upgrades. I paid $4,744 out the door with a $400 gift card, I used that money towards exhaust, hand guards, EJK, and black paint for the wheels. It looks and sounds great for under 5k that’s unbeatable.
I was thinking about selling my 2018 WR250R Nd getting th new 450L but after watching this video I decided to keep my WR. 450L is too much maintenance.. Great Video!
Build your own. 434 bigbore with an FCR will get you 45 hp ACT wide ratio transmission with the the additional power of the BB will stop you from trying to shift to 6th. A well setup FCR is as close to FI as any motorcycle carburetor ever got. If you still want FI that has also been done. The LTZ400 is FI and basically the same core engine as the DRZ. See Thumpertalk.com for additional details.
i hope!! one day!! i think the best bike would be a drz400 6 spd fuel injection BUT! weigh @ 250lbs ABS that can be switched off when you hit offroad that would be the best bike in my opinion
I have the 450L and so far, LOVE IT! It eats tires for breakfast! Wheelies are so much fun. I've gone from street bike to dirt bike and even owned 4 brand new Harley's, my last was totaled last summer. I'm going to be 56 years old and this is one of the funniest bikes EVER!
Had a 250L EJK, full exhaust, gearing change, LED conversion, full front and rear suspension done by RaceTech, airbox mod....the works. Was disappointed with its offroad performance so eventually went supermoto, loved it for the street. Eventually decided I wanted more power and potential so I sold it for a 21' 450RL. It's been terrible lol, at 5'8 I feel like I'm going to die on the street...the seat is worse than my 2002 CR250R, the throttle and clutch are extremely touchy, no tach, gas gauge, gear indicter, etc. So I spent the $$ on the usual mods Vortex ECU, Yoshi exhaust, mini gauge from 12'Oclocklabs, throttle tamer. Bike is night and day from stock now...but it still just doesn't feel right, gives me no confidence on the street or trail unless it's a wide open dirt road or fire trail. I wish I went with the 300L or a different brand, always owned Hondas though. Again it's so much better uncorked but now I feel like I'm stuck with a 10K+ bike I'm iffy on. Not great on trails, and not great on street....but I guess this is the nature of dual sports. I'd say people are better off just getting a dedicated offroad bike and street bike in the end.
The CRF250L is a good little trailie. When I was a young man working in Tokyo in the early 90s, I used to rip across the city on the way to work on a Suzuki DR250SH. Now that really was a good bike.
We needed an updated XR with a license plate. We got a KTM that talks funny. It looks like a GREAT performer, but I'd take 35 horse that only takes the occasional oil and tire change. The bulletproof Honda do-it-all middleweight is a thing of the past I guess.
I have an XR600R (Do not confuse it for an XR650L) that is dualsported, and I agree, to a point. We really needed everything in the dualsport world updated thougj. Everything is old as shit. XR600R engine with a CRF450R chassis/suspension, and a 6 gear transmission. That would be something really special if they could keep it light weight.
Excellent point. $10-$12k for a crf450L.. buy one of these crf250l new , a decent used Suzuki c50 or c90 street bike ($3000 where I live) as well as a used Camry or civic. All transportation covered
I remember when I took a 200x motor out of a three wheeler and put it on a Yz 250 frame.Everything came out perfect and it was fast.Hondas use to be affordable for the regular rider.I Sincerely hope the 250s don’t go up in price
I had a 2013 250L awhile ago but had to sell it, then last year picked up a used 2014 250L with the EJK, Fmf pipe with cherry bomb intake and new shocks. Only $4k and it's been an absolute DREAM to use
Absolutely agreed, maintenance is a huge deal I would say with most dual sporters. Most don't want to change oil every 10 hrs. We want decent power and low maintenance intervals. Kinda like the Suzuki DRZ400s.
That’s what I love about the WR and CRFL 250’s. Nice long maintenance intervals. I’m guessing the 300 will be the same since it’s basically the same engine. The 300 will be a gun once they start hitting the used market. But that 450 has a valid spot in the line up.
Why can't Honda build what amounts to a CRF250L with somewhat better suspension and a somewhat bigger motor? CRF350L? I'd pay more for that bike. NOT $10k, but more.
I think a CRF250L/CRF250 Rally with a re-tuned (for lower-rpm peak torque) CB300 engine, real suspension, and CRF450L wheels/tires would be the perfect bike. I really think that if I could have that bike, I could sell my Rally Raid CB500X and my TW200 (nah, I'll always have the TeeDub) and only ride one bike.
You can use a CBR300 crank and a 305 big bore and get 349cc's with a 450r injector. there's a combo that's 320cc's that you can use the stock fuel system. Honda wont make a 350L because they sell the crap out of these all over the world and alot of countries penalize you for anything over 250cc's(kinda like the 50cc limit on scooters).
I have to especially agree with your closing statement. Just get on it and ride with no worries. Enjoy your day. That's what it's all about. I've got the 2016 and can't wait to get on it and just get lost.
Just a note I put the Ractech spring kit in my fork and got an Ohlins fully adjustable remote reservoir shock for the CRF250L. Shock was custom valved and sprung and sent to my door for $675. Night and day. Sold the CRF250L as I’m dirt only now, but you can spend a little and get a tremendous suspension upgrade on the CRF250L.
My 07 crf 450x lasted for 12 years - never opened the motor until this year and is was running awesome. Cylinder was reused as it was fine. The 450L will last a long time even if you neglect it. The 450 is way more bike than the 250L. The 250x is much more of a bike than the 250L too - but no plate and thousands more. The 250L is a great for bike for the money.
I'm not giving up on the CRF450L, but I will be in 'wait and see' mode for at least 2 years. Honda has the winner, I believe they know it but just need time to react to market forces. Hopefully adjustments will be made in favor of the consumer! The after market is already working on upgrades and mods. Seeing this may nudge Honda in the direction we want. Your commentary is spot on.
How other companies respond? Yamaha and KTM have been doing it for over a decade already in other regions, they just need to do it in the US. Yamaha is a better example as the WR is cheaper than the 450l new, why they don't plate it in the US from factory like they do here is beyond me.
I bought a KLX 250 for $4,300.00 with a bunch of aftermarket add-ons went and look at the CRF 450L and like you just couldn't see spending that money for something with more maintenance and more expensive parts great video
Great video! Your assessment of both bikes is accurate. I love my CRF250L for what it is. And it's a truly great little dual sport bike. I love the power of a 450 but if I'm spending that kind of money and putting up with the much higher maintenance, I'm buying a KTM. For pure fun and worry free riding enjoyment I voted (with my dollars) for the CRF250L. Keep up the great work! Love your channel.
As others have pointed out, the CRF250L is a trail bike that looks like a dirt bike, the CRF450L is an endure bike that is street legal. Sure, you can keep up on well-groomed trails in the Midwest. Come and ride the West on your 250L and you'll be left behind at the trailhead. The 450L exists for a reason: so that Western riders can legally ride forest roads between the parking lot and a trail head, or to ride the forest roads between trails on a dirt bike, legally. It's for the West, not the Midwest. Not knocking the 250L, but it's 50 lbs heavier with less than half the HP and it simply doesn't have the suspension to ride single track or the whoops at speed. It was meant to be a street legal trail bike for casual riding. I have a CRF230L, a better trail bike than the 250L, but, again, not at all in the same class as the 450L which really is meant to compete with the KTM street legal enduro 4 strokes.
As a professional technician and enthusiast, both are great bikes in there own way. Things I don’t like about 250L basically a cbr250 engine, the first time you take the front forks apart and realize how small the dampers are, and you can put the oil filter in backwards (customer thought he would do his own service and will remain un named). Only bad about the 450 is high maintenance and price but hey you want a sports car you buy a sports car right? As well that valve adjusts on a single cylinder are very easy only about 1.5hr labor and a shim kit (maybe a gasket if it’s been re used or around to long). Great enthusiasm and glade you dig your bike👍🏻 2 wheels for life
I am big Honda Fan, but the 450L is nothing but hype. I have ridden it and while it's fun it certainly by no means a beast. My 1985 XR600R can smoke it. Like AD mentioned you can buy a great dirtbike and streetbike lightly used for that kind of money. Not trashing it by any means, it's just all it's cracked up to be.
You are spot on about spending your money more wisely! I to was hot for the 450L but cooled of fast when I seen the price yikes! There are new 2018 250L's on the internet for$3995 (DeLand FL) wow what a deal! My local dealer had a 450L used with 50 miles on it I took it for a ride. I thought the engine had a unusually load mechanical noise. This could be normal??? I will stick with my old 1999 Yamaha XT350 for now. A dealer in Antigo WI has told me they will be getting 450's from Kowasaki that they will be selling at a much better price. This dealer sell new Honda Grom's out the door for $2795 no freight or set up! Two recent gently used purchase 2015 FZ09 four months old with 700 miles $5000 and he threw in the go pro too! 2016 BMW RNineT one year old 1100 miles for $10,500
Well, that's exactly what I was thinking about the CRF450L. I am a proud owner of a 2017 CRF250L ABS (owned the 2014 model before) and I do own two Honda Hornet (599 and 919) as well. I spent 7000 EUR for all those bikes together plus another 1500 EUR for a 1986 Yamaha TY250 Trial bike. That's 2000 EUR less comparing to the 450L, but I got four really genious bikes for that! In Germany, only 25hp would be street legal for the CRF250L, just as much as with the 250. There would be absolutely no reason for me to spend so much money for the 450L. Plus, as mentioned, the service intervalls are just ridiculous if you're into dual purpose bikes. That's what you would expect from a moto cross bike (okay, a 2-stroke Gas Gas needs to be maintenanced every bunch of hours, but hey, that's a competition bike). So...I have to admit that I'm in love with that slow, chubby 250 which is doing exactly what I had expected. 130 kilometers per hour, city traffic, commuting, riding trails and much, much more.
Exactly the type of video I need to see. I'm in a mental struggle...450L or 250L? Thank you. I'm about 6'3", and I was concerned I'd look like a clown on a 250L, but after hearing you say that you're 6'4" and it's good...well you made the decision that much easier for me. Much appreciated. I'm not much of a biker at all. I've had my full license for a decade and hardly rode, but I just love the thrill and thought of hopping on a bike and just cruising. I think now that the 450L is more than what I need as a very seldom rider.
I definitely agree with you about the price. It’s crazy that you can buy 2 new CRF250L’s and still have money left for the price of the 450L. And yes I was like you, I wanted a 450L but in reality l wanted a bike that was like the 250L, low maintenance and bulletproof only in a 450cc. That in my opinion would be the perfect dual sport !
It's 900 less than bikes in the same Class. I have a crf450x and a KTM 500EXC. The Honda is certainly a good deal if the KTM is. I love them both. If changing oil is too hard for you, get an electric bike.
I have a 250l but I don’t think the 450l is over priced. Most 250l owners put a couple grand in the bike just to get a COUPLE more horsepower! You are at 7000 with a 25 horsepower bike. For 4K more you can get right at 50 hp. When you look at it like that, it’s not overpriced. I’m use to changing oil every 600 miles, I have been doing it on my four wheelers my whole life, oil is cheap. With that being said, I love my 250l stock and it’s all I need.
I paid $2,700 for my 14 250L with pretty much all of the necessary mods done to it. I'll keep the other $9,000 and if I want a more powerful road legal dirt bike I will plate a wr450f.
Dang man I didnt even think about the maintenance part of it. You make a very good point with that. Yes 450L would be a bad ass bike to own but 250 will do alot for price tag and maintenance. Good video man
Thats exactly right: when the price of a single cylinder dirt bike is the same as a new supersport ... I turn around and walk away. And yeah, for 12 grand you can buy a big bore cruiser, a sportbike and a dirt bike and you might even have 2-3 grand left over in some states!
Agreed! People just have money to blow I guess, I value my money too much to go and spend 12k on a dirt bike😂 Glad we are on the same page, thank you for watching!
I don't get why people are so hung up on the maintenance. An oil change on the 450L takes less than 15 minutes. IMO for a street legal dirt bike with the power it has is well worth it. It's by far the most fun bike I ever owned. The 250L is a great bike but to say it's better is crazy. I'd much rather do more maintenance & have more power, but that's just me. Ride safe everybody!
Mike Mooch yeah its not the time about the oil change, more like the price. And the problem whit that is the 450 l is not a race dirt bike you can’t take it to a track and expect it to be a resonable bike there because its a dual sport and thats the biggest thing in my opinion. If they could sell like crf R -s strret legal everyone would jump on that who whould like to ride offroad isntead of the L series
Crank service at 15-20k? no thanks, I don't mind adjusting valves or the oil change but myself and 90% of others were hoping for a more refined 250L with 200 more cc's, not a plated dirt bike.
Attention Deficit I gotcha. As someone who bought the bike to ride around my city, I’ll never see that kind of mileage. I just wanted a sick, street legal dirt bike.
I’m happy with my 450l your getting a 450rx with an extra gear and a plate. I don’t know why anyone would think Honda would sell the 450l with more features for less than a rx when there pretty close to the same bike. I went out the door at 10,500 after tax/ title. Very happy with the bike.
I would love to own one! Myself personally can't justify paying that much for a plated dirt bike, I see where you are coming from and definitely agree.
Exactly my take on 450l, insane amount of maintenance required so I bought 250 rally added muffler,ejk,air box mod and 13t sprocket bike rips, half the price, to bad honda didn't make 350 same weight, would sell like hotcakes, they refuse to make what we ask for
Had an 84 xl600. 327 pounds if I remember right. It cut out at stoplights but on the open road or trail it was pretty unstoppable. After watching this video, I now realize what a great and irreplaceable bike it was.
Good review, I wanted the 450 Honda, ice I read the specs and price.... I don't think it is as good as a KTM 525. same upkeep. I would love an XR650R. today I think the best dual sport if they will make it will be a WR450 with WR250 upkeep.. This guy is correct it is a high maintenance bike.. The WR250r is very low even lower than the 250 Honda. If Yamaha would make a Wr450R it may be the best choice.
I have been waiting on Yamaha for years to answer our prayers but I just don't think it will happen. Thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
I bought a 450L, my riding partner has two 525's ... for what you can pick a used 525 up for, they are better value. But my partner has rubber mounted bars, and the vibration is crazy. The 450L has the 525 crushed ! when it comes to how smooth it is.
Not to belittle this cat’s opinion but..........The Crf250l is an entry level dualsport that is under powered, poorly suspended, over weight and struggles to go 70+ mph. The motor is rock solid, gets around 60 mpg, is smooth and makes a great commuter. At about $6000 out the door in California it may seem affordable until you want to make it more dirt worthy then the cost goes up. Suspension mods, pipe and muffler for starters can set you back $1500. Now you have $7500 +or- in it and you now you have an overweight still under powered badly suspended bike you think is off road worthy that isn’t. The Crf450L I purchased was a 2019 and was $10,400 out the door. That’s $3000 more than the modified 250L. The difference is the 450 goes fast enough to scare most people. It’s suspended well enough to handle more than most of us are capable of ourselves. It’s about 40lbs lighter at 280 compared to 320 for the 250. Trying to go fast over rough terrain will end tragically on the 250. On the 450 it’ll put a grin on your face. Another way to look at it is how much is it worth not to crash? What’s it cost if you break any body part? Miss work? $3,000 doesn’t go very far when it comes to medical care.
I have the 250 Rally ,that I love ,wish it had more hp ,but still a great bike.The 450l ,though probably an awesome bike ,seems to miss the dual sport mark.
The 250L weighs a ton and is slow, but if you want a bike to put around town on it’s ok.... if you don’t want a bike with any balls. And idk about the 450L, but I bought a 450X and made it street legal for less than $5k and it is a freakin rocket ! Can hardly keep the front wheel down ! Love it and it would own the 450L
Honda already did this in the late 80's. The NX line- overweight plastic piles of sh/t. 125, 250 and 650 if I remember right. Lightweight rallys are for gay boys. Good for nothing.
Totally agree with you about the 450l, Honda missed out on huge potential sales ignoring the droves of people crying out for a true 450 version of the 250L. To add insult to injury here in Europe we are getting a 24hp version , can't imagine they will sell a single one, KTM exc f's are currently being sold for less. I'm same size as you which has put me off getting the 250L but you are talking me round. Cheers for the vids.
Thank you Olof! Sorry you guys got screwed over with that hopefully there is some way to un-cork it, my height has definitely been an advantage when riding the 250L so I'd say it is a prefect fit!
Your point about buying 4-5 gently used bikes is super solid. The 450L is nothing new, it's just a street legal 450R or X. We wanted something similar to the 250 with more CC. Maybe we will get it from Kawi this week? Hard to say.
I agree about the 450L being way overpriced, like you said after taxes and all the other fees they tack on your looking at close to $12,000, ridiculous.
The CRF450R costs $9300. This bike has the same platform, but a lot of added durability and comes street legal. So it costs $1000 more than a CRF450R. Its built off of a CRF450R. You expected it to cost less than a CRF450R? Think a little harder.
I am with you here. Had plenty dual sport and enduros...all with their own good and not so good features. I am fabbing up my own upgrades to improve this giant killer. Lowering the weight. The rest is relatively easy.
@@AdventureDaily , In simple terms I am a minimalist. A true dual sport/adventure bike must be good on and off road. I am going to 19" front and rear tires/wheels, with Vee Rubber flat track tires in street compound. (You can get knobbies in 19" for both ends) I will fab carbon fiber where it makes sense. (I do my own, so far) The big ticket items are a 12 liter fuel tank under the seat (alum) and a carbon fiber air box where the tank is. Room for the box and extra storage. Maybe a carbon sub-frame in the works too. 275 pound primary goal, but I will shoot for less.
The 250 is better because its heavier. The 250 is better because it has less horsepower. The 250 is better caus it has less torque. The 250 is better caus it is slower. There is no category in which the 250 excels! The only thing is the price. Get real.
Yes!!I said the same thing bout the price...they doubled the 2017 model price for a few goodies...lol...I agree 100% on ur thoughts of it...great vid bro...
thank you so much for that in depth , to the point, and great review showing all the points of both.. if everyone did comparisons like this the internet world would be better off... lol...
Totally agree with you on the 450L.. It would have been nice to see it have a maintenance schedule similar to their 250 and have fuel injection, better horse power #'s but maybe leave room for upgrades that people who can afford them make on their own dime and leave us with a bike costing in the $6500-$7500 range but still be a great bike. Honda basically made a KTM or Husky which most guy's can't afford or want to spend the money on as they need more then one bike or other machine in their riding arsenal.
Florine, I watched quite a few reviews and comparison's with the new 450L and Husky 501 for example and the only thing the Husky had over the Honda was better tuned suspension for offroading straight from factory. Other then that the Honda had less vibration and the Husky and KTM's in this category are buzzy as hell on the road.The Honda did just as well offroad and suspension can be dialed in for whatever riding you do.. HP does not make a great bike btw.. 🙄🤨 For Honda's first year in this market, sounds like they did a bang up job and I'm sure they can iron out any issues over the next couple years.
CRF450L is the only true dualsport. They made it as good on the street as they could without neutering its off road abilities. This is a dualsport for guys that come from a dirtbike background. Not ADV guys. Not streetbikers. This Bike is for a young wealthy man who will not accept sub par off road performance. Thank you Honda.
I come from a dirt bike background but value my money too much to pay 12k for a dirt bike, I'd much rather spend $3k and plate a wr450f, but I see where you are coming from, thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
@@AdventureDaily Well comparing bikes in the used market to brand new bikes... we're comparing apples and starfishes lol. True though. I always buy used.
@@AdventureDaily thats probably fine in oregon but in CA you cant plate anything without going through sketchy legal loopholes that may or may not work. The only plated bikes here are factory plated, and your only options until now were ktm husky or beta which are up there too in price. If you dont want to spend the money whatever but I dont see why you would give an opinion without firsthand experience, maybe you should ride one lol
I can’t be the only person that hates the look of the 250L, I don’t know why it just looks goofy. 450 looks nice although the front light could use some work…
I love the 250L mines perfect for me I just wish it was a little faster and stronger as I slipped on a muddy spot and my handlebars bent, no big deal but it is a pain
People need to realize it’s a dual sport. Not a hard core off-roading machine. It is a compromise. You can’t have everything. You pick a bike that fits your needs best. I have a 250l and love it.
@Chris Dadigger I have a CRF250L, CRF250F, and a CRF230F. All street legal. The closest one to a race bike abilities is my 230F, second is my 250F. My 230F has inverted forks, uncorked, relocated foot pegs, and a up graded shock. It has the same reliability as the 250L. The best dual sports are Honda's 230F and 250F. Only one prob...you must do the conversion.
Nailed it. To add ADV is getting huge and for those who don't want the big ADV bike, dual sports are the option. The most popular dual sports are all TRAVEL CAPABLE! I put down 1000 miles just getting to where I want to off road, last thing I want is to be doing valve checks and oil changes mid trip. We want dual sport MOTORCYCLES. Not dual sport dirt bikes. I am impressed tho with the 450L in that it still is much more reasonable than most it's enduro competition as far as maintenance, but I'd hate to drop anything worth that much money in the dirt.
WR250R... 1st valve adjustment @ 26,000 miles, oil changes every 3,000, and smoke any CRF250L or KLX250 and way better off road and at highway speeds than a DRZ.
Well said. Maybe your title should have been, comparing value? I agree the 450L is way over priced. I just rode one 2 weeks ago. I loved it! But the price is way out of line. It is the bike for me, and fits my needs perfectly but, I can't see how Honda got to they're price point. If it was in the 7-8k range there would be no discussion! I don't know anything about your 250. Haven't ridden one. But I do have an old XR200R, XR650L, XR250R and CRF250X. That I ride regularly. Maintenance intervals are a guide that reflect what the manufacturer thinks will keep their product life in line with the competition.
I like the red accents. I have a 450L and i love it. If you love your 250L thats what its all about. I believe in changing oil often so thats a non issue but valve adj will suck unless i do it myself. I am used to 650s and a litre bike(160 hp) so i got the 450 but the wr250 and your ride rocks.
Good thing its not a dirt bike, its the first japanese made 450 dual sport. Getting a 450 race motor to pass emisions is the reason why its 10k but you can get them new for $7500. For most of us riders a 250L wont cut it
@@danielschurr6817 yeah 250l is just a little underpowered on the freeway and if you're going up some crazy terrain but for probably 80 to 85% of what most ppl are going to ride I think it works very well. To be perfectly honest I really think if you absolutely want to offer and capability a dirt bikes the way to go, it just sucks that you can't always ride them on fire trails especially in California where they want you to have an on highway vehicle
absolutely agree, there's no cure for horse power syndrome, not that it's a bad thing but boy, 8k and16k miles between oil and valve adjustment is simply too good to pass on. Yes a little underpowered, but it does the job. A lightly used 250 rally isn't a bad budget option either, a couple of grands on upgrades on suspension, seat and fuel capacity and you can go around the world on it. Looks awesome too.
I’m not in the dual sport market at the moment. I sold my xr650l a couple years ago. Probably going to pick up another 650l sometime next year. Huge ground clearance and the reliability and maintenance is not far off from the 250l.
I did a lot of trail riding in the past and have rode many bikes from 125s to 450s and this bike was the best trail bike I have ever ridden hands down. I rode with guys who had KTM 690 enduros and the 250l in the woods blows them out of the water
Our dreams of a company making a cheap, lightweight, durable, low maintenance, 6 speed dual sport with 400ish seems impossible. I was looking at the husqvarna fe350, that seems like a pretty good bike but for a shit load of $$ and probably too much wrenching for my taste.
Great video man! Agree with everything you're saying! The 450L is SUPER over priced. Wait about 3-4 years and they'll be on CL for $4-5K, then it would be more of a buy. But yeah, the 450L has some nice specs, but it's just too much $. 8,000 mile oil change? Holy shit, that's insane, no way I'd go that long!
Thank you Stangz! I would definitely love to get my hands on one but don't ever see myself justifying it. I have heard of people doing it but not me haha, thanks for watching!
I have a 2017 crf250l, great bike but yeah the suspension is too soft and the power is lacking. What we wanted is the same bike with a more powerful engine. What we got was a wr450f. I can already buy that.
So you basically wanted them to make another crf250l? The 450L has different intents and purposes. We wanted a legit street legal dirtbike that had a 6 speed and lower maintenance than a straight up dirtbike. Thats exactly what a crf450l is. All the stuff yall are wishing for ALREADY existed. It doesnt cost that much more than a 450 dirtbike, and its way more reliable than a KTM 500EXC. Sounds to me like you wanted a DRZ400S. That already existed. We didnt need honda to make another one. We needed lighter weight andmore power, which will always always cost more. But the only option we had before was plating an MX bike, which was around the same price, and had way less durability than the crf450L. Its a dirtbike that can take more street miles than any other dirtbike. 600 mile oil changes? Well its only 1 quart and it takes 10 minutes to do it so idc.
Not exactly, if I wanted a plated dirt bike I would buy a $3k wr450f and plate it. I wanted them to make a dual sport with 450cc, not an Enduro bike, simple as that.
As said before, give us a 40-45 hp, FI, 6 speed DUAL SPORT. Not an enduro. KTM does that better. What KTM doesn’t have, and what Honda forgot is there mantra, is friendly maintenance intervals, and a lower initial cost. If it was 8K, with 42 HP and a subframe suitable for a rack and bags, that’s the winner.
@@TheJumpn They literally built a 40-45hp dualsport with a beefed up subframe, beefed up crank, mild cam, cush drive sprockets, EFI, and 6 speed. Dualsport, not a fucking street bike turd. You want streetbike maintenance, buy a streetbike or ADV bike, NOT a dualsport. Dualsports are off road machines that have been adapted to be as street friendly as possible without greatly sacrificing off road performance.
@@TheJumpn I think you street bike guys dont understand real dirtbikes. If you think this bike is too high maintenance, its because you're comparing it to streetbikes instead of dirtbikes. You guys seem to just want a better version of your streetbikes that you call dualsports. But some of us come from motocross and woods racing backgrounds, and we want a low maintenance dualsport (CRF450L is extremely low maintenance compared to a dirtbike) that comes set up to ride street daily. Its not a fucking adv bike like you're asking for. Its a legit off road bike.
What i wished is that honda made upgraded CRF250L. An aluminium frame, better suspension, lighter engine and slightly more power and possible keep the same seat height. Yes it would raise the price a bit but it would be much more worth it. So if Yamaha left the WR250R and maybe upgraded to a wr300r there would be any crf450l , people complained that it was expensive for a 250 but proved to a great dualsport and a proper e adventure bike if needed.
I was the same oh yeah im getting that😎 but the service intervals really stuffed it for me and yeah the price also played into it. I don't mind changing oil frequently but the valve checks are way too often for my liking. Im into riding not servicing 😆 I'll be sticking with my rock solid Crf250rally👍
absolutely man it makes no sense that the WR250R can have valve checks at 26,000 and the CRF450 is 1,800. That's bullshit. Doesn't a true 250cc motocross bike put out like 45 HP? And you have the 450 putting out 45 HP...shouldn't be over-stressed to require maintenance like that.Plus I heard you need a new piston or something at 16,000 miles. Bull. SHIT for those of us that can't afford crazy expenses like that.
Love this kind of content. You do it very well.
Thank you I really appreciate that!
O'Rourke got his patties in a bunch, sorry but people wanted legit dual sport not street legal dirt bike, wr or 450x can easily be made street legal, I not going to change oil every 2 weeks and do monthly valve cks, cuts into ride time
@@jackh3522 easily made street legal in every state except California where they require the emissions, ie the bike has to be designed for on-street use from the beginning
@Bill Madd The DR-Z400S is around the weight of the CRF250L. The close-ratio 5spd is its major downfall, but aftermarket gearsets are available now. The carb isn't a dealbreaker for somebody like me. The DR-Z400S can also be shaved in weight and built to around 60WHP.
The CRF450L should have been built with the CRF450X's enduro engine, not the R's MX engine. OR, Honda should have designed a long-interval 450 engine that could easily be built from mild to wild.
The 450L also doesn't have passenger pegs. Even the DR-Z400S has passenger pegs.
$10K and I can't even use it around town with a passenger, while I'm cringing about adding more mileage to it the whole time?
I know it sounds like whining, but c'mon. I'm no marketing specialist or engineer, but these should be pretty commonsense things for a 450 dualsport. They already make a 450 race enduro, and even the 250L has passenger pegs. Even the Grom has passenger pegs.
The issue here is people confuse the term dual Sport with enduro bike. The CRF250L is a dual Sport. A WR250R is a dual Sport . A DRZ400 is a dualsport.
A wr450F Is an enduro bike. A KTM 525EXC Is an enduro bike. THE 450L IS AN ENDURO, NOT A DUALSPORT
A dual Sport is a bike designed to be used both on and off road. Low maintenance intervals.
An enduro bike is essentially a race dirtbike, high strung engine high maintenance, that has been made street legal to legally ride between trails
Honda promised us a 450 dual Sport. What they gave us was a 450 ENDURO BIKE that is slightly better on the road.
Exactly my point! Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from.
This is the one that most people can't understand for some reason, is that dual sports are supposed to be low maintenance bikes for street and dirt, not plated track only bikes.
@@E2Moto Thing is for a little more weight ( some heavier motor parts and more oil capacity)you can have a high strung motor with lower maintenance intervals.
@@stimpsonjcat26 weight is often a trade off factor for reliability. It's really hard to call the CRF450L a dual sport because of low mileage maintenance which makes it almost unsuitable for street riding. You can easily rack a LOT of miles when you commute, and then on top of that, maintenance becomes more frequent, making it more expensive as it adds up. If I were to own a CRF450L, that bike only be ridden around my town and in nearly dirt roads, and will never see highway rides.
I would also never recommend this bike as first bike.
@@E2Moto I am not disagreeing. I just think if honda would have sacrificed a little (probably only a couple) on hp and put some heavier longer lasting parts in the motor it would have made more sense. That said the price is still way too high. This is the real reason companies are having a hard time selling bikes. This and the price of insurance.
I agree 100%. I bought a 2016 250L and haven't looked back. I love the bike. Brings me everywhere I want to go (as a novice - intermediate rider) and gets me home every time. Little to zero maintenance. The only issue was the battery died in year 3. So I spent $40 bucks for a new battery. Done. That's it. The thing is bulletproof. I love that I can keep it in my garage, start it up, rip out my driveway and hit the dirt roads and trails within 15 minutes from the street (I live in Vermont). Fun, pure joy and simple. Easy living and always ready to ride at the push of a button. For $5K it's a no brainier.
They are amazing machines full of cheap, reliable, fun. Thanks for sharing!
The 250L’s price to fun ratio is damn good. I fully modded a 2013 model and still spent less than a brand new one.
I agree! I paid $2,700 for my modded 14 and couldn't be any happier.
I bought one a 450L and out the door was 10k.. well worth it I think.. it's a great bike.
It is definitely a great bike! I'd love to own one.
doesn't sound convincing when u have to think about it
did that include tax and tags?
@@TarmacBlackIX yes.. price was 9400
bombidude nice. Thanks man. Ill try to bring this ppl down. Anything below 10 otd is deff worth it (in my opinion)
I had purchased my Rally and 6 weeks later the 450 was on the showroom. I was a little perturbed until I dug and found the service interval on the 450. I’d still like to ride the 450, but as for owning, not so much. Glad I have the 250.
I love the look of the Rally I think you made the right choice depending on your riding style!
I agree, my 17 250l is my second, very customizable and all kind of parts and upgrades. I paid $4,744 out the door with a $400 gift card, I used that money towards exhaust, hand guards, EJK, and black paint for the wheels. It looks and sounds great for under 5k that’s unbeatable.
Now that's a great deal! Glad you can see where I am coming from. Thanks for watching!
This is the dude who later bought a 450L and called it his dream bike right?
That's what I thought too!
He got it for cheap
Yea and then later turned back to the 250l
I was thinking about selling my 2018 WR250R Nd getting th new 450L but after watching this video I decided to keep my WR. 450L is too much maintenance.. Great Video!
Good choice! Thank you for watching 😁
With you 100% on every word. “The Swiss Army Knife of dual sports”; that’s pure gold.
so true, DRZ 450please, 6 spd, FI, 45 hp, low maintenance. mmmmmmmm
dreamin
Now that would be something! We can only hope.
Build your own.
434 bigbore with an FCR will get you 45 hp
ACT wide ratio transmission with the the additional power of the BB will stop you from trying to shift to 6th.
A well setup FCR is as close to FI as any motorcycle carburetor ever got. If you still want FI that has also been done. The LTZ400 is FI and basically the same core engine as the DRZ. See Thumpertalk.com for additional details.
@@troybolton4055 Agreed on the FCR. They work just as well as EFI in every way.
i hope!! one day!! i think the best bike would be a drz400 6 spd fuel injection BUT! weigh @ 250lbs ABS that can be switched off when you hit offroad that would be the best bike in my opinion
6th gear is all I could wish for my DRZ, and the carb can stay.
I love the space-age space comments and all of your points are extremely valid. Keep the good content coming!
Thank you I appreciate it!
I have the 450L and so far, LOVE IT! It eats tires for breakfast! Wheelies are so much fun. I've gone from street bike to dirt bike and even owned 4 brand new Harley's, my last was totaled last summer. I'm going to be 56 years old and this is one of the funniest bikes EVER!
The maintenance piece alone is a key selling point
Had a 250L EJK, full exhaust, gearing change, LED conversion, full front and rear suspension done by RaceTech, airbox mod....the works. Was disappointed with its offroad performance so eventually went supermoto, loved it for the street. Eventually decided I wanted more power and potential so I sold it for a 21' 450RL. It's been terrible lol, at 5'8 I feel like I'm going to die on the street...the seat is worse than my 2002 CR250R, the throttle and clutch are extremely touchy, no tach, gas gauge, gear indicter, etc. So I spent the $$ on the usual mods Vortex ECU, Yoshi exhaust, mini gauge from 12'Oclocklabs, throttle tamer. Bike is night and day from stock now...but it still just doesn't feel right, gives me no confidence on the street or trail unless it's a wide open dirt road or fire trail. I wish I went with the 300L or a different brand, always owned Hondas though. Again it's so much better uncorked but now I feel like I'm stuck with a 10K+ bike I'm iffy on. Not great on trails, and not great on street....but I guess this is the nature of dual sports. I'd say people are better off just getting a dedicated offroad bike and street bike in the end.
Wow. I couldnt agree more!!! A man that values dollar and has good advice. Great video!
Thank you Cole! Glad you can understand where I am coming from, Honda Financial will make loads off of this bike😂
The CRF250L is a good little trailie. When I was a young man working in Tokyo in the early 90s, I used to rip across the city on the way to work on a Suzuki DR250SH. Now that really was a good bike.
That's awesome!
Great comments and really valid. Low maintenance is a BIG bonus.
I have been riding dirtbike for 40-plus years. I have a modified 2013 Honda CRF250L & I love it! Nuff said.
Nice I love mine!
We needed an updated XR with a license plate. We got a KTM that talks funny. It looks like a GREAT performer, but I'd take 35 horse that only takes the occasional oil and tire change. The bulletproof Honda do-it-all middleweight is a thing of the past I guess.
I agree! Glad you can see where I am coming from.
I have an XR600R (Do not confuse it for an XR650L) that is dualsported, and I agree, to a point. We really needed everything in the dualsport world updated thougj. Everything is old as shit. XR600R engine with a CRF450R chassis/suspension, and a 6 gear transmission. That would be something really special if they could keep it light weight.
Glad I got my xr650r a few years back. No one wants to get rid of them anymore.
How about an street legal XR 400 with a magic button and wide range tranny, and long range fuel tank. C'mon honda🙏
@@trevfirefy8179 I just converted my xr400 to estart and it's freaking awesome! I grin Everytime I start it.
Excellent point. $10-$12k for a crf450L.. buy one of these crf250l new , a decent used Suzuki c50 or c90 street bike ($3000 where I live) as well as a used Camry or civic. All transportation covered
I remember when I took a 200x motor out of a three wheeler and put it on a Yz 250 frame.Everything came out perfect and it was fast.Hondas use to be affordable for the regular rider.I Sincerely hope the 250s don’t go up in price
I had a 2013 250L awhile ago but had to sell it, then last year picked up a used 2014 250L with the EJK, Fmf pipe with cherry bomb intake and new shocks. Only $4k and it's been an absolute DREAM to use
Absolutely agreed, maintenance is a huge deal I would say with most dual sporters. Most don't want to change oil every 10 hrs. We want decent power and low maintenance intervals. Kinda like the Suzuki DRZ400s.
Exactly! Glad you can understand my views, thank you for watching!
That’s what I love about the WR and CRFL 250’s. Nice long maintenance intervals. I’m guessing the 300 will be the same since it’s basically the same engine. The 300 will be a gun once they start hitting the used market. But that 450 has a valid spot in the line up.
Why can't Honda build what amounts to a CRF250L with somewhat better suspension and a somewhat bigger motor? CRF350L? I'd pay more for that bike. NOT $10k, but more.
Agreed! Glad you can understand where I'm coming from.
I think a CRF250L/CRF250 Rally with a re-tuned (for lower-rpm peak torque) CB300 engine, real suspension, and CRF450L wheels/tires would be the perfect bike. I really think that if I could have that bike, I could sell my Rally Raid CB500X and my TW200 (nah, I'll always have the TeeDub) and only ride one bike.
I'd pay $10k for a CRF450L of it was an actual L. Lol not a X.
Many Asian countrys have a 250cc limit before huge taxes. And Asia is the biggest market
You can use a CBR300 crank and a 305 big bore and get 349cc's with a 450r injector. there's a combo that's 320cc's that you can use the stock fuel system. Honda wont make a 350L because they sell the crap out of these all over the world and alot of countries penalize you for anything over 250cc's(kinda like the 50cc limit on scooters).
I have to especially agree with your closing statement. Just get on it and ride with no worries. Enjoy your day. That's what it's all about. I've got the 2016 and can't wait to get on it and just get lost.
Thank you and I hope you enjoy it! I sure have loved mine so far.
I've been thinking about getting the updated klx250... Honda makes very reliable bikes, but the camo Kawi just speaks to me.
The camo is definitely sweet, I was hoping they had a response but it looks like they could care less for now.
I like the camo a lot, you can also camo the CRF250L but the Kawi kinda just looks nicer, I think it's a slight bit taller too
Just a note I put the Ractech spring kit in my fork and got an Ohlins fully adjustable remote reservoir shock for the CRF250L. Shock was custom valved and sprung and sent to my door for $675. Night and day. Sold the CRF250L as I’m dirt only now, but you can spend a little and get a tremendous suspension upgrade on the CRF250L.
Nice that's awesome!
Such a disappointment. I agree the 250L is the better option, plus the service intervals. 250L is bulletproof
Glad you can see where I am coming from! I was hoping for a more refined 250L with 200 more cc's.
These are solid 250 lumps
My 07 crf 450x lasted for 12 years - never opened the motor until this year and is was running awesome. Cylinder was reused as it was fine. The 450L will last a long time even if you neglect it. The 450 is way more bike than the 250L. The 250x is much more of a bike than the 250L too - but no plate and thousands more. The 250L is a great for bike for the money.
I bet you never even rode one!
Thank you, finally a review that addresses the maintenance and cost factors. Well done!
I'm not giving up on the CRF450L, but I will be in 'wait and see' mode for at least 2 years. Honda has the winner, I believe they know it but just need time to react to market forces. Hopefully adjustments will be made in favor of the consumer! The after market is already working on upgrades and mods. Seeing this may nudge Honda in the direction we want. Your commentary is spot on.
I agree Glenn! Like I said I can't wait to see how other companies respond, and what changes will be made. Thanks for watching!
How other companies respond? Yamaha and KTM have been doing it for over a decade already in other regions, they just need to do it in the US. Yamaha is a better example as the WR is cheaper than the 450l new, why they don't plate it in the US from factory like they do here is beyond me.
Well. I know it’s more expensive but Ktm makes the best street legal dirt bikes. Worth the money.
KTM's are awesome. I will definitely in another someday.
I bought a KLX 250 for $4,300.00 with a bunch of aftermarket add-ons went and look at the CRF 450L and like you just couldn't see spending that money for something with more maintenance and more expensive parts great video
Great video! Your assessment of both bikes is accurate. I love my CRF250L for what it is. And it's a truly great little dual sport bike. I love the power of a 450 but if I'm spending that kind of money and putting up with the much higher maintenance, I'm buying a KTM. For pure fun and worry free riding enjoyment I voted (with my dollars) for the CRF250L. Keep up the great work! Love your channel.
Thank you Dan I'm glad you enjoyed it! The 250L is a great bike people just like to complain.
As others have pointed out, the CRF250L is a trail bike that looks like a dirt bike, the CRF450L is an endure bike that is street legal. Sure, you can keep up on well-groomed trails in the Midwest. Come and ride the West on your 250L and you'll be left behind at the trailhead. The 450L exists for a reason: so that Western riders can legally ride forest roads between the parking lot and a trail head, or to ride the forest roads between trails on a dirt bike, legally. It's for the West, not the Midwest. Not knocking the 250L, but it's 50 lbs heavier with less than half the HP and it simply doesn't have the suspension to ride single track or the whoops at speed. It was meant to be a street legal trail bike for casual riding. I have a CRF230L, a better trail bike than the 250L, but, again, not at all in the same class as the 450L which really is meant to compete with the KTM street legal enduro 4 strokes.
Agreed.
Great video! I sincerely wish Honda will make 300cc version of CRF250L while keeping the price tag close to the current model.
We can only hope.. Thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
As a professional technician and enthusiast, both are great bikes in there own way. Things I don’t like about 250L basically a cbr250 engine, the first time you take the front forks apart and realize how small the dampers are, and you can put the oil filter in backwards (customer thought he would do his own service and will remain un named). Only bad about the 450 is high maintenance and price but hey you want a sports car you buy a sports car right? As well that valve adjusts on a single cylinder are very easy only about 1.5hr labor and a shim kit (maybe a gasket if it’s been re used or around to long). Great enthusiasm and glade you dig your bike👍🏻 2 wheels for life
I agree with all of those things and I appreciate you seeing where I am coming from, thank you for watching!
I am big Honda Fan, but the 450L is nothing but hype. I have ridden it and while it's fun it certainly by no means a beast. My 1985 XR600R can smoke it. Like AD mentioned you can buy a great dirtbike and streetbike lightly used for that kind of money. Not trashing it by any means, it's just all it's cracked up to be.
Agreed! Glad someone agrees with me who has actually ridden it, thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
You are spot on about spending your money more wisely! I to was hot for the 450L but cooled of fast when I seen the price yikes! There are new 2018 250L's on the internet for$3995 (DeLand FL) wow what a deal! My local dealer had a 450L used with 50 miles on it I took it for a ride. I thought the engine had a unusually load mechanical noise. This could be normal??? I will stick with my old 1999 Yamaha XT350 for now. A dealer in Antigo WI has told me they will be getting 450's from Kowasaki that they will be selling at a much better price. This dealer sell new Honda Grom's out the door for $2795 no freight or set up!
Two recent gently used purchase 2015 FZ09 four months old with 700 miles $5000 and he threw in the go pro too!
2016 BMW RNineT one year old 1100 miles for $10,500
Sounds like that dealer has some good prices! Thanks for the comment Glenn!
Well, that's exactly what I was thinking about the CRF450L.
I am a proud owner of a 2017 CRF250L ABS (owned the 2014 model before) and I do own two Honda Hornet (599 and 919) as well. I spent 7000 EUR for all those bikes together plus another 1500 EUR for a 1986 Yamaha TY250 Trial bike. That's 2000 EUR less comparing to the 450L, but I got four really genious bikes for that!
In Germany, only 25hp would be street legal for the CRF250L, just as much as with the 250. There would be absolutely no reason for me to spend so much money for the 450L. Plus, as mentioned, the service intervalls are just ridiculous if you're into dual purpose bikes. That's what you would expect from a moto cross bike (okay, a 2-stroke Gas Gas needs to be maintenanced every bunch of hours, but hey, that's a competition bike).
So...I have to admit that I'm in love with that slow, chubby 250 which is doing exactly what I had expected. 130 kilometers per hour, city traffic, commuting, riding trails and much, much more.
I am glad you can see where I am coming from! Sounds like an awesome lineup you have! I was hoping for a more refined 250L with 200 more cc's.
Exactly the type of video I need to see. I'm in a mental struggle...450L or 250L? Thank you. I'm about 6'3", and I was concerned I'd look like a clown on a 250L, but after hearing you say that you're 6'4" and it's good...well you made the decision that much easier for me. Much appreciated. I'm not much of a biker at all. I've had my full license for a decade and hardly rode, but I just love the thrill and thought of hopping on a bike and just cruising. I think now that the 450L is more than what I need as a very seldom rider.
I definitely agree with you about the price. It’s crazy that you can buy 2 new CRF250L’s and still have money left for the price of the 450L. And yes I was like you, I wanted a 450L but in reality l wanted a bike that was like the 250L, low maintenance and bulletproof only in a 450cc.
That in my opinion would be the perfect dual sport !
Thank you for understanding where I am coming from, I enjoy your channel Woodzman! Looking forward to more adventures.
It's 900 less than bikes in the same Class. I have a crf450x and a KTM 500EXC. The Honda is certainly a good deal if the KTM is. I love them both. If changing oil is too hard for you, get an electric bike.
It does exist now! GPX FSE450R
I have a 250l but I don’t think the 450l is over priced. Most 250l owners put a couple grand in the bike just to get a COUPLE more horsepower! You are at 7000 with a 25 horsepower bike. For 4K more you can get right at 50 hp. When you look at it like that, it’s not overpriced. I’m use to changing oil every 600 miles, I have been doing it on my four wheelers my whole life, oil is cheap. With that being said, I love my 250l stock and it’s all I need.
I paid $2,700 for my 14 250L with pretty much all of the necessary mods done to it. I'll keep the other $9,000 and if I want a more powerful road legal dirt bike I will plate a wr450f.
Im with you on this. I thought I would run to the dealer when they came out with a 450. Until I realized I already had my favorite bike , the 250L
Thank you for understanding my point! I was hoping for a more refined 250L with 200 more cc's.
Honda needs a 350 again.
Dang man I didnt even think about the maintenance part of it. You make a very good point with that. Yes 450L would be a bad ass bike to own but 250 will do alot for price tag and maintenance. Good video man
It really isn’t that bad but definitely not for everybody. Most people will do just fine with the 250L, thank you for watching!
I have the 250 L and I love it, I took the 450 for a test ride, so much power and feels much lighter....The price is too heavy though
Thats exactly right: when the price of a single cylinder dirt bike is the same as a new supersport ... I turn around and walk away. And yeah, for 12 grand you can buy a big bore cruiser, a sportbike and a dirt bike and you might even have 2-3 grand left over in some states!
Agreed! People just have money to blow I guess, I value my money too much to go and spend 12k on a dirt bike😂 Glad we are on the same page, thank you for watching!
I don't get why people are so hung up on the maintenance. An oil change on the 450L takes less than 15 minutes. IMO for a street legal dirt bike with the power it has is well worth it. It's by far the most fun bike I ever owned. The 250L is a great bike but to say it's better is crazy. I'd much rather do more maintenance & have more power, but that's just me. Ride safe everybody!
Mike Mooch yeah its not the time about the oil change, more like the price. And the problem whit that is the 450 l is not a race dirt bike you can’t take it to a track and expect it to be a resonable bike there because its a dual sport and thats the biggest thing in my opinion. If they could sell like crf R -s strret legal everyone would jump on that who whould like to ride offroad isntead of the L series
@@attilakovacs1727 You literally could take this to the track and ride legit motocross with it.
Science Militia1 i dont particularry know these bikes but from what i heard this is my opinion
Crank service at 15-20k? no thanks, I don't mind adjusting valves or the oil change but myself and 90% of others were hoping for a more refined 250L with 200 more cc's, not a plated dirt bike.
Attention Deficit I gotcha. As someone who bought the bike to ride around my city, I’ll never see that kind of mileage. I just wanted a sick, street legal dirt bike.
I’m happy with my 450l your getting a 450rx with an extra gear and a plate. I don’t know why anyone would think Honda would sell the 450l with more features for less than a rx when there pretty close to the same bike. I went out the door at 10,500 after tax/ title. Very happy with the bike.
I would love to own one! Myself personally can't justify paying that much for a plated dirt bike, I see where you are coming from and definitely agree.
this guy has completely missed the point with this bike. To say the 250L is a better bike in anyway is just ridiculous
Exactly my take on 450l, insane amount of maintenance required so I bought 250 rally added muffler,ejk,air box mod and 13t sprocket bike rips, half the price, to bad honda didn't make 350 same weight, would sell like hotcakes, they refuse to make what we ask for
Glad we can agree, I love the 250L just wish it was a bit lighter. Hopefully someday they will answer our prayers.
Excellent video and some great points. It was a shame Honda couldn't just bolt the 450 engine to the CRF250L chassis.
Thank you! Glad you see where I am coming from, I think the 300r in the 250L frame would be awesome!
I love that the 450L is more dirt worthy!
Had an 84 xl600. 327 pounds if I remember right. It cut out at stoplights but on the open road or trail it was pretty unstoppable. After watching this video, I now realize what a great and irreplaceable bike it was.
I really want to get my hands on one..
Good review, I wanted the 450 Honda, ice I read the specs and price.... I don't think it is as good as a KTM 525. same upkeep.
I would love an XR650R. today I think the best dual sport if they will make it will be a WR450 with WR250 upkeep.. This guy is correct it is a high maintenance bike.. The WR250r is very low even lower than the 250 Honda. If Yamaha would make a Wr450R it may be the best choice.
I have been waiting on Yamaha for years to answer our prayers but I just don't think it will happen. Thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
I bought a 450L, my riding partner has two 525's ... for what you can pick a used 525 up for, they are better value. But my partner has rubber mounted bars, and the vibration is crazy. The 450L has the 525 crushed ! when it comes to how smooth it is.
Not to belittle this cat’s opinion but..........The Crf250l is an entry level dualsport that is under powered, poorly suspended, over weight and struggles to go 70+ mph. The motor is rock solid, gets around 60 mpg, is smooth and makes a great commuter. At about $6000 out the door in California it may seem affordable until you want to make it more dirt worthy then the cost goes up. Suspension mods, pipe and muffler for starters can set you back $1500. Now you have $7500 +or- in it and you now you have an overweight still under powered badly suspended bike you think is off road worthy that isn’t.
The Crf450L I purchased was a 2019 and was $10,400 out the door. That’s $3000 more than the modified 250L. The difference is the 450 goes fast enough to scare most people. It’s suspended well enough to handle more than most of us are capable of ourselves. It’s about 40lbs lighter at 280 compared to 320 for the 250.
Trying to go fast over rough terrain will end tragically on the 250. On the 450 it’ll put a grin on your face. Another way to look at it is how much is it worth not to crash? What’s it cost if you break any body part? Miss work? $3,000 doesn’t go very far when it comes to medical care.
I have the 250 Rally ,that I love ,wish it had more hp ,but still a great bike.The 450l ,though probably an awesome bike ,seems to miss the dual sport mark.
I love the look of the Rally! Thanks for understanding my point exactly, hope you stick around here on the channel!
The 250L weighs a ton and is slow, but if you want a bike to put around town on it’s ok.... if you don’t want a bike with any balls. And idk about the 450L, but I bought a 450X and made it street legal for less than $5k and it is a freakin rocket ! Can hardly keep the front wheel down ! Love it and it would own the 450L
I have definitely done a lot more than put around on mine, check out my 250L playlist!
Honda CRF250L Rally is the go
Henry Higgins lol yeah let's make the 250L heavier and give it the same power
@@OgreMoto but now it looks cool as fuck! so being even slower than slow is fine
Rally is upwards of a 1000 bucks more than the standard 250L.........and all you get is more plastic!!!!!!
Honda already did this in the late 80's. The NX line- overweight plastic piles of sh/t. 125, 250 and 650 if I remember right. Lightweight rallys are for gay boys. Good for nothing.
dave xs .. you get a bigger gas tank too. 2.7 gal.
100% agree with you. In Canada we'd be dropping 13000 on this and is be afraid to dump it offroading after spending that. Too stressful.
Thank you Shane! People just like wasting money apparently😂
First thing any 250L owner should do is get one of those fancy Seat Concepts seats you got. That factory seat will tear you a new one.....
That is definitely a must! Honestly one of the main reasons I love that bike lol.
Amen, I've got a 2017 CRF 250L Rally. It does everything exactly like you say + it routinely gets 75 MPH.
Glad you are enjoying it!
Totally agree with you about the 450l, Honda missed out on huge potential sales ignoring the droves of people crying out for a true 450 version of the 250L.
To add insult to injury here in Europe we are getting a 24hp version , can't imagine they will sell a single one, KTM exc f's are currently being sold for less.
I'm same size as you which has put me off getting the 250L but you are talking me round.
Cheers for the vids.
Thank you Olof! Sorry you guys got screwed over with that hopefully there is some way to un-cork it, my height has definitely been an advantage when riding the 250L so I'd say it is a prefect fit!
Your point about buying 4-5 gently used bikes is super solid.
The 450L is nothing new, it's just a street legal 450R or X. We wanted something similar to the 250 with more CC. Maybe we will get it from Kawi this week? Hard to say.
Thank you for understanding my logic! Hopefully the Green team pulls through for the people👍🏻
The 450X is street legal
I agree about the 450L being way overpriced, like you said after taxes and all the other fees they tack on your looking at close to $12,000, ridiculous.
i know a guy that paid 18,000$ for a husky 450 sumo
We pay $11,000 for the 250l
Exactly, this is what I just paid for a new 2017 Africa Twin!
The CRF450R costs $9300. This bike has the same platform, but a lot of added durability and comes street legal. So it costs $1000 more than a CRF450R. Its built off of a CRF450R. You expected it to cost less than a CRF450R? Think a little harder.
Yeah I just can't justify that, then again I don't buy new anything lol.
I am with you here. Had plenty dual sport and enduros...all with their own good and not so good features. I am fabbing up my own upgrades to improve this giant killer. Lowering the weight. The rest is relatively easy.
Awesome! Glad we can agree, I would love to hear about some of the mods.
@@AdventureDaily , In simple terms I am a minimalist. A true dual sport/adventure bike must be good on and off road. I am going to 19" front and rear tires/wheels, with Vee Rubber flat track tires in street compound. (You can get knobbies in 19" for both ends) I will fab carbon fiber where it makes sense. (I do my own, so far) The big ticket items are a 12 liter fuel tank under the seat (alum) and a carbon fiber air box where the tank is. Room for the box and extra storage. Maybe a carbon sub-frame in the works too. 275 pound primary goal, but I will shoot for less.
In my country you need to pay $12,000 for CRF250L, I wonder how much it will cost for CRF 450L hmm..
Sonam Sherpa your whole left arm
What country are you from?
You have told the right things
What to look for in a bike
Why not to spend more on something which is high maintenance
Thanks
You are welcome!
The 250 is better because its heavier.
The 250 is better because it has less horsepower.
The 250 is better caus it has less torque.
The 250 is better caus it is slower. There is no category in which the 250 excels!
The only thing is the price. Get real.
Always love hearing from you Chuck!
Less maintenance don't forget that
Yes!!I said the same thing bout the price...they doubled the 2017 model price for a few goodies...lol...I agree 100% on ur thoughts of it...great vid bro...
Thank you Pat I'm glad you agree!
thank you so much for that in depth , to the point, and great review showing all the points of both.. if everyone did comparisons like this the internet world would be better off... lol...
No problem I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Totally agree with you on the 450L.. It would have been nice to see it have a maintenance schedule similar to their 250 and have fuel injection, better horse power #'s but maybe leave room for upgrades that people who can afford them make on their own dime and leave us with a bike costing in the $6500-$7500 range but still be a great bike. Honda basically made a KTM or Husky which most guy's can't afford or want to spend the money on as they need more then one bike or other machine in their riding arsenal.
Glad you can see where I am coming from! A refined 250L with 200 more cc's would have been a dream come true!
it has fuel injection ... and it makes 45hp at the crank with an emmision pipe. Comments on this board are hilarious
CRsportfishing.ca Wow, it’s wonderful...🙄 Dude, if one has the money to buy a Ktm/Husky Enduro bike, won’t even remotely consider a Honda...ever.
Florine, I watched quite a few reviews and comparison's with the new 450L and Husky 501 for example and the only thing the Husky had over the Honda was better tuned suspension for offroading straight from factory. Other then that the Honda had less vibration and the Husky and KTM's in this category are buzzy as hell on the road.The Honda did just as well offroad and suspension can be dialed in for whatever riding you do.. HP does not make a great bike btw.. 🙄🤨 For Honda's first year in this market, sounds like they did a bang up job and I'm sure they can iron out any issues over the next couple years.
CRF450L is the only true dualsport. They made it as good on the street as they could without neutering its off road abilities. This is a dualsport for guys that come from a dirtbike background. Not ADV guys. Not streetbikers. This Bike is for a young wealthy man who will not accept sub par off road performance. Thank you Honda.
I come from a dirt bike background but value my money too much to pay 12k for a dirt bike, I'd much rather spend $3k and plate a wr450f, but I see where you are coming from, thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
@@AdventureDaily Well comparing bikes in the used market to brand new bikes... we're comparing apples and starfishes lol. True though. I always buy used.
@@AdventureDaily thats probably fine in oregon but in CA you cant plate anything without going through sketchy legal loopholes that may or may not work. The only plated bikes here are factory plated, and your only options until now were ktm husky or beta which are up there too in price. If you dont want to spend the money whatever but I dont see why you would give an opinion without firsthand experience, maybe you should ride one lol
@@ColoradoForestBeings What the fuck are you even talking about? You sound like a fucking streetbike pussy who just got offended
I can’t be the only person that hates the look of the 250L, I don’t know why it just looks goofy. 450 looks nice although the front light could use some work…
I love the 250L mines perfect for me I just wish it was a little faster and stronger as I slipped on a muddy spot and my handlebars bent, no big deal but it is a pain
Me too they are awesome bikes that just put a smile on your face. Definitely need some aftermarket bars!
People need to realize it’s a dual sport. Not a hard core off-roading machine. It is a compromise. You can’t have everything. You pick a bike that fits your needs best. I have a 250l and love it.
@Chris Dadigger I have a CRF250L, CRF250F, and a CRF230F. All street legal. The closest one to a race bike abilities is my 230F, second is my 250F. My 230F has inverted forks, uncorked, relocated foot pegs, and a up graded shock. It has the same reliability as the 250L.
The best dual sports are Honda's 230F and 250F. Only one prob...you must do the conversion.
You expected hate and ended up with love! Great overview. I fully agree. The only reason I'd have a 450L is if someone gave it to me for free.
Thank you Jay! Glad you can see where I am coming from, and yeah me too lol.
I would buy a CRF450L if I found one for cheap. Idk I'd probably pay like $5,000 at most or something like that give or take in new condition.
Nailed it. To add ADV is getting huge and for those who don't want the big ADV bike, dual sports are the option. The most popular dual sports are all TRAVEL CAPABLE! I put down 1000 miles just getting to where I want to off road, last thing I want is to be doing valve checks and oil changes mid trip. We want dual sport MOTORCYCLES. Not dual sport dirt bikes. I am impressed tho with the 450L in that it still is much more reasonable than most it's enduro competition as far as maintenance, but I'd hate to drop anything worth that much money in the dirt.
Thank you for understanding my point! Hope to ride together someday!
Word man, I'm hitting a back road discovery route next year if your up for some distance lol
WR250R... 1st valve adjustment @ 26,000 miles, oil changes every 3,000, and smoke any CRF250L or KLX250 and way better off road and at highway speeds than a DRZ.
The wr250r is definitely the best option👍🏻
Well said. Maybe your title should have been, comparing value? I agree the 450L is way over priced. I just rode one 2 weeks ago. I loved it! But the price is way out of line. It is the bike for me, and fits my needs perfectly but, I can't see how Honda got to they're price point. If it was in the 7-8k range there would be no discussion! I don't know anything about your 250. Haven't ridden one. But I do have an old XR200R, XR650L, XR250R and CRF250X. That I ride regularly. Maintenance intervals are a guide that reflect what the manufacturer thinks will keep their product life in line with the competition.
Thank you T Bahr, I'm sure it is a great bike but not what most of us wanted, glad you understand my point, all great bikes you have,, enjoy them!
I’m a Honda guy but when I can spend $300 bucks more on a ktm exc 350 which i literally do not have to do anything to, i’m going to buy the ktm.
I like the red accents. I have a 450L and i love it. If you love your 250L thats what its all about. I believe in changing oil often so thats a non issue but valve adj will suck unless i do it myself. I am used to 650s and a litre bike(160 hp) so i got the 450 but the wr250 and your ride rocks.
Thanks! I agree, definitely planning to upgrade soon still haven't decided what it will be though. Thank you for watching!
10K is an ungodly amount of money for a dirt bike. even a 400, even a new honda.
For sure!
Good thing its not a dirt bike, its the first japanese made 450 dual sport. Getting a 450 race motor to pass emisions is the reason why its 10k but you can get them new for $7500. For most of us riders a 250L wont cut it
@@danielschurr6817 yeah 250l is just a little underpowered on the freeway and if you're going up some crazy terrain but for probably 80 to 85% of what most ppl are going to ride I think it works very well. To be perfectly honest I really think if you absolutely want to offer and capability a dirt bikes the way to go, it just sucks that you can't always ride them on fire trails especially in California where they want you to have an on highway vehicle
ive had my 250L 10 months, 10k miles plus. No headaches; plenty of mods with all service done on time. Bike is bulletproof! FMF pipe for the win lol
Great video. We get seriously screwed in the EU with the 25hp version 😂
Thank you! And yes you really did.. That's just wrong lol.
absolutely agree, there's no cure for horse power syndrome, not that it's a bad thing but boy, 8k and16k miles between oil and valve adjustment is simply too good to pass on. Yes a little underpowered, but it does the job. A lightly used 250 rally isn't a bad budget option either, a couple of grands on upgrades on suspension, seat and fuel capacity and you can go around the world on it. Looks awesome too.
Glad you can see where I'm coming from, the 250L is a great value for money! Always puts a smile on my face too.
and you bought a 450L later on...:)
I’m not in the dual sport market at the moment. I sold my xr650l a couple years ago. Probably going to pick up another 650l sometime next year. Huge ground clearance and the reliability and maintenance is not far off from the 250l.
Love the 650L! Such a legendary bike, I hope you end up getting another one!
Why not WR250R?
That's a known fact😂
I did a lot of trail riding in the past and have rode many bikes from 125s to 450s and this bike was the best trail bike I have ever ridden hands down. I rode with guys who had KTM 690 enduros and the 250l in the woods blows them out of the water
Our dreams of a company making a cheap, lightweight, durable, low maintenance, 6 speed dual sport with 400ish seems impossible. I was looking at the husqvarna fe350, that seems like a pretty good bike but for a shit load of $$ and probably too much wrenching for my taste.
Maybe someday.. We can only hope🙏
Great video man! Agree with everything you're saying! The 450L is SUPER over priced. Wait about 3-4 years and they'll be on CL for $4-5K, then it would be more of a buy. But yeah, the 450L has some nice specs, but it's just too much $. 8,000 mile oil change? Holy shit, that's insane, no way I'd go that long!
Thank you Stangz! I would definitely love to get my hands on one but don't ever see myself justifying it. I have heard of people doing it but not me haha, thanks for watching!
I bought a mint 2014 crf 450x and a real low mileage k6 Suzuki gsxr 1000 for the price of that 450L🤔
Exactly! Glad you can see where I am coming from.
I have a 2017 crf250l, great bike but yeah the suspension is too soft and the power is lacking. What we wanted is the same bike with a more powerful engine. What we got was a wr450f. I can already buy that.
Thank you for understanding my point!
So you basically wanted them to make another crf250l? The 450L has different intents and purposes. We wanted a legit street legal dirtbike that had a 6 speed and lower maintenance than a straight up dirtbike. Thats exactly what a crf450l is. All the stuff yall are wishing for ALREADY existed. It doesnt cost that much more than a 450 dirtbike, and its way more reliable than a KTM 500EXC. Sounds to me like you wanted a DRZ400S. That already existed. We didnt need honda to make another one. We needed lighter weight andmore power, which will always always cost more. But the only option we had before was plating an MX bike, which was around the same price, and had way less durability than the crf450L. Its a dirtbike that can take more street miles than any other dirtbike. 600 mile oil changes? Well its only 1 quart and it takes 10 minutes to do it so idc.
Not exactly, if I wanted a plated dirt bike I would buy a $3k wr450f and plate it. I wanted them to make a dual sport with 450cc, not an Enduro bike, simple as that.
@@AdventureDaily So basically a drz400s.
As said before, give us a 40-45 hp, FI, 6 speed DUAL SPORT. Not an enduro. KTM does that better. What KTM doesn’t have, and what Honda forgot is there mantra, is friendly maintenance intervals, and a lower initial cost. If it was 8K, with 42 HP and a subframe suitable for a rack and bags, that’s the winner.
@@TheJumpn They literally built a 40-45hp dualsport with a beefed up subframe, beefed up crank, mild cam, cush drive sprockets, EFI, and 6 speed. Dualsport, not a fucking street bike turd. You want streetbike maintenance, buy a streetbike or ADV bike, NOT a dualsport. Dualsports are off road machines that have been adapted to be as street friendly as possible without greatly sacrificing off road performance.
@@TheJumpn I think you street bike guys dont understand real dirtbikes. If you think this bike is too high maintenance, its because you're comparing it to streetbikes instead of dirtbikes. You guys seem to just want a better version of your streetbikes that you call dualsports. But some of us come from motocross and woods racing backgrounds, and we want a low maintenance dualsport (CRF450L is extremely low maintenance compared to a dirtbike) that comes set up to ride street daily. Its not a fucking adv bike like you're asking for. Its a legit off road bike.
Interesting points. Never considered the price difference nor the maintenance cost of the 250. Good video, my friend!
Thank you Gabriel! Glad you enjoyed it😁
Get a 450 x 👌🏻
I'd love one!
What i wished is that honda made upgraded CRF250L. An aluminium frame, better suspension, lighter engine and slightly more power and possible keep the same seat height. Yes it would raise the price a bit but it would be much more worth it.
So if Yamaha left the WR250R and maybe upgraded to a wr300r there would be any crf450l , people complained that it was expensive for a 250 but proved to a great dualsport and a proper e adventure bike if needed.
Agreed! Glad you can see where I am coming from.
You're right - CRF450L is 'way' overpriced.
Glad someone else can agree!
I was the same oh yeah im getting that😎 but the service intervals really stuffed it for me and yeah the price also played into it. I don't mind changing oil frequently but the valve checks are way too often for my liking. Im into riding not servicing 😆 I'll be sticking with my rock solid Crf250rally👍
Agreed! The 250L / Rally is just such a hassle free bike, just turn the key and go. It is a lot more capable than people think, thanks for watching!
absolutely man it makes no sense that the WR250R can have valve checks at 26,000 and the CRF450 is 1,800. That's bullshit. Doesn't a true 250cc motocross bike put out like 45 HP? And you have the 450 putting out 45 HP...shouldn't be over-stressed to require maintenance like that.Plus I heard you need a new piston or something at 16,000 miles. Bull. SHIT for those of us that can't afford crazy expenses like that.