Nvidia RTX Super Pricing? Will GPU Pricing Ever Be 'Normal' Again? December Q&A [Part 2]
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00:00 - Welcome to Hardware Unboxed
00:20 - Ad-Spot
01:05 - Nvidia Super Series Pricing?
05:44 - The Limits of PCIe 3.0?
07:14 - Will Frame Generation make testing games difficult?
11:04 - Most exciting upcoming release?
15:30 - Does Tim get PAID? :D
24:32 - Does HDR hurt frame rates?
25:57 - Do consumers care about AI features?
28:51 - Will we ever see 'normal' GPU prices again?
33:24 - Where is our Meteor Lake review?
35:30 - Will we see a 7500 XT?
37:08 - Outro
December Q&A [Part 2]
Disclaimer: Any pricing information shown or mentioned in this video was accurate at the time of video production, and may have since changed
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. We may also earn a commission on some sales made through other store links
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Outro music by David Vonk/DaJaVo - Věda a technologie
![Worst Refresh Ever? GeForce 20 & Radeon RX 5000 Now End Of Life? October Q&A [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_jcripEJVI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Worst Refresh Ever? GeForce 20 & Radeon RX 5000 Now End Of Life? October Q&A [Part 2]](/img/tr.png)
I think it will cost a super amount of money.
You'll pay for the "Super" (an additional $50-100 per letter)
@@buggerlugz6753 that's almost as much as any extra "X" in the model name.
Yes. I hope they get booed at CES
@@towncrier9944 if the prices suck then yeah I hope they boo them hard
I remember when us poor people could get excited about replacing a $150 gpu with a new $150 gpu three years later that was twice as powerful. Fun times
Used market is fantastic. Friend just picked up a $200 3070,
@@RadialSeeker113well most ebay listing's are past $300 so your friend is lucky!
After staring at GPUs for five years I replaced my CPU instead and was shocked that a motherboard, RAM and CPU was cheaper than than a midrange GPU and easily over triple the power of an old 7600k.
Yes but then we where almost always aiming at ~60fps in new demanding games. Now we aim for 144 if possible. Prices now are high but the money has de-valued overall. Also how PS5 makes 60fps 4k gaming - by using upscaling and other software tricks - so same must be done with PC gaming to reach similar price points with GPU.
Now we buy a $500 GPU... 3 years after launch
In Spain, the RTX 4080 is around 1300€. It's just absolutely stupid. They said that with the end of gpu mining prices would go down. They are now laughing at those insulting gpu miners.
Socialism price for ya
In Norway the cheapest 4080 card is 1400 $
in poland about 1400e if u want strix or aorus 1600e
1400€ in Sweden....
@@reahs4815 That's nuts. 1400 for 16 gb vram is crazy
the only way to prevent high prices is to not buy anything. then they'll make discounts, and if u stay calm, they will panic when nobody buys
Last time the supers came out I got a 2070 super from gigabyte for 350$. It's insane how much has changed. Takes the excitement out of everything.
Nvidia is a steaming dog loaf now. Greed above all.
What are you smoking? That card launched at $499, which is like $550 after inflation, if not $600. Are you talking about used prices? Clearance prices on 3 year old hardware? How is historically revisionist misinformation like this getting upvoted? Pretty sure the 4070 Super will be $399 as well... 2 years after launch when the next-gen comes out, just like your 2070 Super.
@@eugkra33 it wasn't used, granted it was a great deal but you could get deals like that then. It was 350$ brand new
2070 Super for $350 was a great deal at the time!
A Hardware Unboxed video a day keeps the greedy PC companies at bay.
Full respect to both of you for being so transparent about your business that’s quite incredible, it’s this kind of honesty why this is the best hardware channel, please never change. Perfect partnership.
Its basically a co-op (IMHO the best type of business model)
Agreed, they could have covered that question in less than a minute and moved on, but they were really open and discussed the topic for around 9 mins. Major respect.
With NVIDIA having no competition in the high end for the next generation, it is pretty much certain the next GPU will be just pushing anything faster than the 4090 at about 2000 MSRP.
@@chuckycheeser AMD will not do top-end chips next generation.
Those past 4 years have killed pc gaming for me. Plain and simple. It is simply not financially sane to build a pc for gaming. Especially when you don't live in the USA and get hit with priced increased by 20-30-40% in Europe for some components. I am sorry but at this point buying a console is in my opinion a better choice. I will keep my PC alive but only on life support if someone break now, not worth upgrading anymore.
I'm in EU too and yeah, I have a 3080 12gb and it's enough for now. Problem is, many AAA games these days are so unoptimised that it doesn't matter what PC you have, it will still run terribly.
But in a couple years, I will just get a PS5 Pro which will totally come out at that time, probably around GTA VI launch so that would be a good time for it. It will be great for their exclusives and for the latest AAA games which would struggle on my 3080.
I’m new to pc gaming, I got a 7900xt in the U.S. for $700 although that’s still expensive I feel like gpu prices have leveled out in a sense now that amd has become competitive with entirely anti-consumer Nvidia
Im from the Netherlands and gonna upgrade my pc soon to a 7800x3d and 7900xtx. The total build on pc part picker is gonna set me back 3.2k euro including monitor. It will be my first upgrade since owning my gtx 960 way back in 2016
Rip us retailers to retailers
Well its people's problem they are too afraid of used market.
3080s are 400€
3070s 250€
RX 5700 XTs 120€
On the low end 1060s are like 50€ already
Hardware Unboxed is awesome, both of you guys contribute so much and make the markets for us customers better!
I have a lot of respect for Steve for being forseeing and not greedy to get this channel build with Tim the way they did. (Ofc also for Tim, but he Steve did the initial plan, is how it seems to me)
Greetings, thx for a good year
Great Q&A! Mirroring other comments, it's amazing the level of transparency you guys are comfortable with. You don't owe it to anyone at all but it's cool to see.
Here in Hong Kong the 4080 is the same price, but unlike Spain, we don't have taxes for consumer products which means sellers are even more greedy
24:42 HDR is insane if you ask me. It can make a huge difference to every scene in a game, and it doesn't cost any performance either. It's a way bigger impact than turning on ray-tracing for some better shadows and/or reflections.
Lg g1 65 HDR is ALWAYS on. It's insane how good hdr is. Now i need only a good new vr headset with hdr, but only VR headset with oled is the beyond... and it has no eye tracking
@@Daniele858585 It's great when it works, but ALWAYS on? Do you only play new AAA games with native HDR support? Like 90% of my library doesn't support HDR natively. And then probably 80% of it also doesn't work right with Auto HDR and has no gamma adjustment in game to make it look good. Many games with great HDR on console simply don't have it on PC. I look up the game I'm about to play to see what the support is like before and play with it on if I can.
HDR is still too immature, especially on PC. Lifespan and performance of HDR monitors is questionable, and OS support for HDR and weird OLED subpixels is patchy/nonexistant.
You nailed it!! A real HDR display is the single biggest upgrade one can make today I think. You would be surprised how many people have great PCs but pair them with potato monitors.
tell it to the guys playing 1080p no HDR saiyng its enough and they dont see any difference comparing 4K HDR :)
Y'all are hilarious. I enjoy all the longer vids that I can listen to, great for commuting.
Everyone keeps saying the super cards will be the price of the ti cards. I think they are releasing them to fill the price gap. So 70ti super £950-1000 and 80 super £1300-1350
my favorite tech channel. you guys do a great job.
thanks for all your benchmarks in 2023 - yours is the best channel for us HW peeps - cheers both and looking forward to your content in 2024
Its simple. The companies got greedy. So what will happen next is - for the next 5-10years gaming on the PC master Race will stagnate to such a degree that the companies componnents will sit on shelves while gamers extend the life of their old systems as much as possible.
All the people who wish to upgrade their systems will learn to upgrade once every 5-7 years.
I know i am still rocking a GTX 1070 and will keep using it until it completely dies.
Im not buying a GPU more than 500$. Companies will learn, once we stop buying expensive BS. Just tough out the shortage.....
Bro weve been upgrading once per 5-10 years on average since 2013 already. Its not anything new. All correct though.
Many people dont share this mentality unfortunately. Otherwuse we would not be in this bs predicement in the first place. People cant vote with their wallets.
All new chips are much harder to make. Do you realize that a new chip factory in Arizona is like dozens of billions and it is not the most technologically advanced one?
The last time i was excited about pc hardware was when the 3060ti was launched and being faster than the previous generations 2080 super, but for $400.
@@nat99997 who gets excited about 15% increase in performance worth hundreds of dollars more? Companies know we wont upgrade every year and cant deliver that big leaps forward. Next leap forward may be a national security concern given the ai capabilities of the chips , they dont have that much of an incentive to make big progress now.
Wow, that was a nice surprise seeing my handle at the bottom of the screen for a bit! Thanks for the answer.
Looking forward to the new year !!!
The segment about whether or not tim gets paid is really interesting for me. Don't know if you've ever done a video like this but a "history of hardware unboxed" video (or just a long question answered in QnAs like this) would be interesting.
I think i know exactly how this new Nvidia Super situation is gonna go. 4070 moves down in price to $500-$550, 4070 Super takes over the $600-$650 slot. 4070ti takes the $700-$800 slot and the 16gb 4070Ti/Super variation takes the $800-900 slot. 4080 drops to $1000-$1100 and the 4080 Super takes the $1200-1400 slot. The 4090 is already selling like hotcakes at $2000 so i can imagine a 4090Ti variation coming next year at some point for like $2500. Nvidia isnt lowering prices. Thry have no need to at all. They are pretty much just filling out their higher end offerings in $100 increments instead of having the big gap between 4070 and 4070ti. Im sure lots of people went with the 12gb 4070 over the 12gb 4070ti just because the gap seemed huge money wise but certainly wasn't feeling worth the extra $200+ for the Ti.
U 2 Rock, keep on rolling because what you are producing is 1st class! Thank you.
Great q&a!❤
With the RTX series nvidia and amd realised that they dont have to compete or be reasonably priced compared to consoles.
Yes, this. You can't expect AMD to keep Nvidia under control anymore. AMD joined Nvidia. AMD realised it during previous crypto period, that it's more profitable to corner market and let impatient money people drive the prices up.
@@Steel0079 There's a reason people will spend 10x more than a prius for a lambo and 10x more than a lambo for a Bugatti. The richest people don't give a fuck and are extremely profitable. The same applies to a PS5, RTX 4070 and RTX 4090. Nvidia could drop a $5K GPU and if it has reasonable performance scaling from the $500 one, people would still buy it.
The 3090 taught me that lesson. The 3080 was a card that was less than half the cost (1500 vs 700) and there were still MANY people who spent more than 2x for 10% more performance in gaming. Today, a used 3090 is around $500 and a used 3080 is around $400, much more reflective of their real world performance.
cant blame the company when amd share overall is only at 16% compared to nvidia and intel.
Is this not the perfect moment for AMD to shine and try to take over the market with good priced gpus instead of pricing similar to nvidia? Or maybe AMD is not able to lower the prices much more?
@@viking9442 it's always been perfect moment for AMD. But AMD is too incompetent
I've completely lost interest in GPUs. Not even sure why I'm commenting to be honest.
love your channel guys !! greetings from Argentina!
Appreciate the honesty and transparency for the behind-the-scene's bit. IMHO monitor's unboxed is the definitive place for monitor reviews, nowhere else gives me that level of detail and cold hard numbers on monitor performance. Also like the style of hardware reviews, GPU pricing updates, hardware news & discussion here. You lads have earnt yourselves a sub here today, well done!
The HDR performance issue was definitely with pascal GPUs. I had thought it also a smaller hit with turing GPUs as well, but could be remembering incorrectly.
NVIDIA is not a gaming company anymore, so if their gpus arent sold to individual customers, they will be sold to AI buyers.
The prices will probably only get higher.
It still doesn’t make any sense because if 99% of their revenue is from AI, how is overcharging for the gaming gpus going to make any tangible difference to that last 1%? I think it’s just plain stupidity and lack of company resources provided to the consumer division.
I also don’t think the gaming gpus can be repurposed for AI. The architecture of the AI gpus is far more optimised for just AI and nothing else. The cuda cores aren’t efficient enough in AI for the silicon required to be worth it.
If I were nvidia shareholders I would just shut down the whole gaming division.
@@Jwellsuhhuh Their gaming gpus can be used for AI and also productivity workloads. They own a monopoly not just over AI but also over video editing, graphics design etc. So even on that they can set the price at whatever they want basically. AMD doesnt use CUDA so it's basically useless for anything other than gaming. It's sad, but true.
And even if gaming cards couldn't be used for AI, they can just put them at a price point that the few they do sell, sell at whatever price they want. Because the rest of the silicone they sell for AI products. And they can choose how much goes towards AI and how much to gaming. And people who make money with products they buy will be much more willing to pay a lot more for them. Besides them having an absolute monopoly on this.
The only viable GPU for “AI” is the 4090-hence the ban on china imports.
Unless people pivot to GPU AI “mining” and buy a bunch of higher end GPUs to deploy as nodes to the Render Network no AI lab would touch a gaming GPU.
H100, A6000s are needed for training runs not Timmy’s 4080.
Only demand for gaming GPUs might come from people with local installs of Stable Diffusion or some small “lab” fine tuning an open source model. This could change if there’s a powerful AI Video open source model and small teams decide to develop their own model and snap up gaming GPUs.
But the GPUs most of us want are not powerful enough for AI training runs.
(An HGX H100 is 296,000)
I remember when GPUs used to be somewhat a slight premium over a console in the mid life of a console, sometimes cheaper. The problem is that if people are willing to pay for it, there's probably an algorithm like Wall Street's renter algorithm that allows them to charge insane prices because of this
Thank you for all the information. I appreciate especially the answer to the PCIE 3.0 question. Been wondering about that myself as I am also considering buying a 4070 or 7800xt
I'm running a 7900 XT on a x370 board from 2017 without any issues too.
In reality we might get 5% more performance and 50% in price increases.
No.
Can’t wait for the next version - RTX 4080 Ti Super Superb.
They're starting to sound like mattress names 😂
Super Prices 😂
I am upgrading my computer to a 7800X3D whilst listening to this based on all the benchmarking from this awesome channel!
Edit: It's up and running!!
7800X3D so juicy
Nice! Such a good feeling when a new upgrade fires up congrats!
Nice, this will be me soon. Upgrading from a 3600
What are your full specs?
@@chuckycheeserI built my 7950x3D/4090 rig in April… my first AMD rig since the Athlon XP 1800+ with GeForce 3 back in 2001. 😂 Don’t know if I’ll ever go back to Intel.
Wow the ad spot is for the GPU I bought last October 😄
The only thing that would lower the prices IS: the consumers.
Stop buying overpriced crap... Prices goes down... Simple.
I think the major problem like everything at the moment is wages have pretty much stagnated yet everything has gone through the roof which doesn’t help when amd and nvidia decided to hike prices sky high
It just would not be the same without both of yous guys.. cheers and Happy New Year.
Nvidia should be shipping a oversized wallet with all 40 series cards. They already know their market
Knowing Nvidia the pre existing cards won't change in price.
I have a question. Why are graphics cards priced £ = $?
If MSRP is say $500 why do we then pay £500 in the UK when we should pay £393
US prices dont include taxes. And in Europe they are around 20%
@@Radek494 Damn. We really do get shafted lol
You pay both import tax and sales tax. It's also infuriating in Poland
The US prices don't list sales tax, but Americans do pay it still. But its usually less and there is also still a gap from a profit margin, which is probably because the companies know that we are willing to pay more.
20% VAT mate
Love you boys keep it up
Such a good video and good answers ! i'll live happy when I'll be able to have a 21/9 4k 240 hertz monitor (oled glossy) and a pc that can run games at that quality/framerate without me downing all visual settings.
I am really excited about the iGPU development during the last few years, and the growth of energy efficient chips for ultrabooks with gaming capabilities. Sure, these are not even close to low tier dedicated GPUs from the current or even last two generations. But to be able to play modern games on a 2lbs notebook that can also last for ~10h under normal productivity loads for very affordable prices is a game changer for the industry. I've seen laptops on sale with great screens and 680m/780m chips going for $600 dollars. And those have similar performance to a 1060/1650.
If one factors in that these chips have essentially reinvented the mobile handheld console market as well, I think it is a very exciting development, particularly now that Intel has a competitive architecture. It brings gaming to a much broader market base, even if one must use lower settings.
I don't know how far we can expect these technologies to develop, but I'd love to see a similar "race to the bottom" in GPU technology.
Currently, the Radeon 780M (which is the best iGPU right now) still doesn't match the GTX 1650 Max-Q Laptop on average due to lower memory bandwidth (you need LPDDR5-7500 or better to match it). Even a normal GDDR5 GTX 1650 Laptop is above the Radeon 780M.
Despite matching the GTX 1060 in pure raw performance, the memory bandwidth is its weakness and, if you want to play remotely recent games on it, you wouldn't want to have 16GB RAM in these laptops as the iGPU will take 2 or 4GB away. 32GB becomes almost mandatory.
Battery life will still be an issue, as some games aren't optimized for battery life on laptops for some reasons. My Ryzen 5 5600H+3060 and Ryzen 5 3550H+1650 laptops only last around 1 hour and 20 minutes on osu! when on iGPU, despite having 60Wh and 52Wh (detected as 42.5Wh in HWInfo) batteries respectively. The battery life drops to 1 hour if using the dGPU instead.
That said, this development is a good thing for handheld PCs/consoles.
iGPU is the future, its pointless thinking about bothering with current GPU's, when its far better, easier and offers some value for money to grab a console instead.
Nice idea but iGPUs from intel and amd cost too much, got a bad performance ratio, consume too much energy and are not upgradable.
Maybe the revolution will come with arm and risc-v based systems.
This markets been min/maxed so hard now, that there's not really any products that are "better value" than others any more.
Every product is priced to fit exactly into its performance point. You basically just have to pay more for more performance, there's no more dark horses these days.
The value to be had is in the second hand market.
I have a question about monitors: is there a difference in "speed" or transitioning frame to frame between the different colors? I think I have a memory of Tim mentioning something like "The slower red phosphorus (...)" in a monitor review. Does that make sense? Thanks for the content, and a happy new year!
there is if iam not mistaken
I actually appreciate your answer on why you stopped laptop testing. I've been wondering for the longest time. I personally find laptop engineering more interesting than desktop, but I understand why testing laptops would be frustrating.
I found your channel back when Nvidia was giving you guys a hard time. This channel does a lot of good stuff that always get mentioned by at least 5 other well known CZcamsrs that i follow. Thanks Nvidia😁
I have given up on the whole 40 series graphics cards pretty much a year ago because of prices and specs which seems not worth the naming they have given them. I am still convinced they are selling a 4060 as a 4070 and a 4070 as a 4080 with even heavily inflated prices. Even AMD seems to inflate their prices which is also disappointing. Covid, scalping and shortages are way behind us but it seems NVIDIA and AMD didn't got the memo.....
50 series will be even worse than 40...
4070 is 600€ minimum and it has shitty 12gb VRAM what a joke that card should have 16gb ,4060 is even worse joke 8gb vram for 400+€ card hahaha good one NVIDIA 4060 is absolute useless if u wanna run max textures even at 1080p at many games past 2-3 years
Shout out to Tim calling for workers to sieze the means of production! Respect, comrade.
Just make sure you're the entire factory.
really enjoyed the business talk, would of wondered what the actual split was but i understand why you didnt want to say.
wait what? 1600$ for an RTX 4090?? In Spain the CHEAPEST RTX 4090 is 2200€ , around 2400$. Are you kidding??
1600 is closer to MSRP and what it was before the recent jump in price.
I got mine last year for 1650 USD after tax. But that same card right now is like 1850 before tax
I'm still rocking my 1080 gpu, why? because im terrified of how much these cards cost now! they've skyrocketed so much (not as much as the bitcoin farming thank gosh) but eventually ill have to bite the bullet and get a 2 series........maybe a 3 series card. I always go the gen prior unless the newer gens have some crazy new technology (dlss etc) to help performance.
I too have the beastly old 1080. It holds up.. I play 4k 120 upscaled with fsr balanced and it is a pretty lovely experience still getting over 100fps in my games. On my local market I recently went on a hunt and found a 6800 for $350, 6800 XT for $400 and 6950 XT for $450. None of these prices are better price to performance than I got my GTX 1080 for 3.5 years ago so I never pulled the trigger. Hopefully post holidays people will start selling off their old gpus and I've heard there may be a bit of an AI crash so we may see at least a 25% drop on used market in a couple months.
@@christophermullins7163The 1080 is an ancient fossil lmao. Games look like complete garbage at FSR balanced 1080p upscaled to 4k.
@@ZackSNetwork thank you 🙏 I appreciate your valuable comment. Very helpful.
FYI.. for 4k gaming the 1080 is faster than the rx 6600 which people currently buy for new builds. You probably do not even have a 4k monitor nor have you any idea which games I play which is vital. FSR does not look good in every scenario but with a 4k monitor in racing games.. FSR looks as good almost as good as dlss. Again.. it is the optimal scenario for fsr. I'm sure you've never experienced this. FSR performance is upscaled from 1080p.. not balanced. FSR balanced on a 4k monitor is unquestionable better than 1440p native.
What really has me puzzled is.. why you get value from a posting a comment that only brings ppl down and provides zero information? By default, the only explanation is you're bored and also a bad person.
very cool. thanks for answering my pci3.0 question
It would be great if there was an IGP solution with the performance level of a 3060 for 1080p gaming. But I guess there are too many boulders in the way. It would probably end up in something really big and hot. like a chiplet for the GPU, a couple of chiplets for the ram, then the CPU plus maybe additional cache chiplets.... etc...
I will be happy if for this new GPU's 4070 get a hack down in price or i will go with my Red team
I really don't like it when in video ads contain words that blur the line between ad and editorial statements, it raises questions with regard to the reviews being independent from advertiser influence.
I mean words like "...is one of the most affordable... it's powerful..." is high praise and when they are spoken by a team member, is it then words from the company wanting to sell their stuff or from the team wanting to be nice. And if the later is the case, then how can reviews be trusted?
I would love to hear what you think Battlemage would need to do as far as price and performance in order to help shake up the GPU market?
Before going into retirement, make sure that the channel will still publish quality contents like now
These prices are ridiculous.
I'm still most excited for Arc Battlemage. I'm really hoping for it to be a big improvement over Arc, which is already really good for a first generation product. If it's good and priced properly it could have a real impact on graphics card prices. And since AMD seems to not have an RDNA4 halo product planned, they'd both be battling it out in the midrange so that seems exciting.
CPUs really don't excite me all that much in general. For gaming, you can get by really well with pretty old CPUs generally and for productivity, I don't think one generation to the next really is that much of an increase to be worth actually getting excited over and see that more as a sober business decision on whether or not the cost of a newer CPU is worth the cost for the improvement. The more interesting part of new CPU generations for me is new platforms and their capabilities. I heavily bought into AM5 (and one LGA 1700 one) for the sheer amount of m.2 slots they now support to get rid of all the SATA stuff and its cables so all my non-SFF systems now have 4 NVMe SSDs and I'm super happy with that.
I've been thinking about this a couple of days and came to the conclusion that gpu scalper prices got so bad during the "historical event" that Nvidia's new MSRPs seem cheap by comparison. Whats worse is Nvidia and AIB's ALLOWED the scalping by making it so easy for scalpers to buy up the stock. EVGA was one of the few places trying to prevent it by creating a purchasing queue and now they're suddenly not making GPUs anymore. It's a lot to think back on isn't it?
And here i am happy with my 700 bucks 6950xt...
While i do understand regarding gpu prices what Tim is saying (people won't buy new GPU with stagnating cost per frame) the truth is that Nvidia got people hooked on DLSS, RT and Frame Gen like drug addicts. They just compensate stagnation with features to rake in the money like they are doing it now.
The reality is that is that yes lots of people will just not bother to buy their overpriced GPUs, it 100% has an noticeable impact on their sales that they don't like. But if their margins are high enough to compensate it's not worth it for them to get those sales numbers back up. I'm sure they would like to keep their current prices and have everyone love them and buy all their GPUs, just means even more money for them. But the bottom line is most important at the end of the day, sales and good will are only worth so much to them.
it is ridiculous that even the fastest card cannot handle AAA titles on native res maxed.
The 4070 Ti Super will probably be priced to compete with the 7900 XTX since it currently has no competition in its price range due to the 4080 being considerably more expensive despite offering the same performance.
4080 same performance yes, but also actually usable features and 40% less powerconsumption at1440p ultra gaming. So there you go.. 7900xtx already has its competitor.
I think that the 4070 ti is going to be $800, and the 4080 $900
@@narfsc26577900 xtx more perf, 8gb more vram, usable features? I guess fsr 3 is not ussble or RT wich is at the level of the 4070 ti unless you also activate the frame gen in the driver, but how would you know, you never touched an Amd product and just stick with what others say.
@@narfsc265716gb vs 24gb.... So no competitor
@@narfsc2657 What use is that to someone with less than 1000 USD to spend on a gpu?
9:38 The Finals also forces an upscaler to be active
I’m not sure if the reason for addressing the topic of GPU prices from the sidelines is to maintain some neutrality with business partners, but community-wide, the definition of “normal prices” is unanimously agreed upon: We want a return of new GPU prices across the full hierarchy to what they were in 2017, when the 1080 Ti released. That was the last “normal” we had, and you could apply that too to when the 3000-series and 6000-series launched in 2020, if you were just talking about MSRP. But at a community level, we don’t talk about it, because we within the community had near-zero real-world access to any of those GPUs at MSRP for a full year and a half.
We want flagship GPUs back to $700, and everything scaling down from there.
Nope will always get ripped off because people are still buying them it’s basic economics
An item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If you keep buying these expensive cards, you're just telling them they're worth that much. If you don't want mid tier cards to cost $600, stop buying them. Simple as that. WE control prices by opening our wallets.
*This*. It's hilarious that the pcmr can't understand basic economics.
@@rocstarang5747 a lot of people in general don't understand basic economics. 🤷🏻
If you consider both cost AND power requirements for GPU's over time, what trends do you see? Is value / frame stagnating from both a monetary and power perspective?
I got a new metric for you guys to calculate in your benchmarks. Anytime that you get frames below 30 frames per second, that would be considered unplayable. Quite frankly, I can consider anything 40 or less on playable though. But what I'm getting at is that you can have a percentage of playable frames and non-playable frames. Just an idea.
Call me cynical, but considering the past generation price hikes and the fact that NVIDIA is willing to hold back supply to keep pricing high, I am not convinced NVIDIA will lower prices on the Super cards or even keep them at the same pricing bracket. Even when the supply chain issues got better, cards still stayed at inflated prices.
I believe NVIDIA will continue to sell through their current supply of 4070, 4070 Ti, and 4080 cards at their current MSRPs and introduce the Super cards anywhere from $50-$100 more expensive. Even though Moore’s Law Is Dead is leaking the 4080 Super might retail for $999, I think they’ll try to find a way to justify a price increase to $1299, considering more VRAM and the very minor performance increase expected.
I would absolutely love to be wrong, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what next month brings.
The 4080 Super does not have more vram it’s still 16gbs. You have no clue what your talking about.
@@ZackSNetwork Thanks for pointing that out. For some reason, I thought the rumors were pointing to 20GB VRAM in the 4080 Super, but I should’ve double checked
In BattleMage we trust…
Not causual users tbh
Yes, the current pricing are unreasonable.
With regards to the 7500XT, what if it were a PCIe v5 x4 device?
It will never be the same due to greedy price gouging. Some will always be willing to pay for these ridiculous prices and that why companies do this.
750$ is still to high of a price for the 4070 Ti SUPER... 699 is barely acceptable
I'm hearing the 4070ti super will have close to a 4080 performance, so if that is true $750 is decent.
@@DwaynedaGamer that would make the 4080 super obsolete, if its close to a regular 4080
@@DwaynedaGamer Nah it´s not decent due to the fact how all the GPU prices are super inflated past two gens.
@@Gankaito I think the super cards are going to take a big L to be honest. I can't see them selling well. There is no reason to get a 4070 super, it will still have 12gb and even though there will be a slight performance increase it will still fall short of a stock 4070ti, might as well get a 7800xt and overclock it to get similar performance. The 4070ti super if at $750/800 is the only one I see selling, especially if rumours are true about a similar performance to the 4080. With the 4080 super getting closer to the 4090. But knowing Nvidia I can't see a $750/800 price. I think the 4070 super will be $600/650, 4070ti super $900/950, 4080 super $1400-1500.
@@Hombremaniac they are inflated, but Nvidia fans keep falling for the hype, that is why these manufacturers especially Nvidia keep doing it. That is why I'm team red. I have the 7800xt overclocked and I'm not far off a stock 4070ti performance. Also the argument of better ray tracing performance is a big overreaction. The 7800xt and 4070 for the most part have similar ray tracing performance, frame gen saves the 4070, as well as fluid motion saves the 7800xt and the performance difference is probably 10fps and in some games even less. So I don't understand over paying for 10fps more.
I just bought a brand new rx6800 msi model gpu for $300! Got it from a local guy, was selling it on marketplace. Thought it was a great deal, card was still sealed and never used. Works perfectly. Gonna keep it until the 50 series and 8000 gpus come out and look at my options.
just ordered an upgrade from 11400 to amd 7600 cpu. im looking forward to actually being at "the front" of the "platform longevity" train.
Just stop buying nvidia crap and price will go down. Happy user 7800XT here.
honestly.. if the 4080 would be around 800$, 4070ti 600$ and 4070 at 450-500$ range, the prices could be considered reasonable..
Current pricing is insane and nVidia wants to keep the scalping train going and I absolutely hate it.
Unless prices drop significantly, will not upgrade to 40 series.
The pricing really is the big question.
Wasn't there recently a leak of some MSI super cards where they were the same price as the old ones they're replacing.. so exactly what I expected would happen
The economics of the situation are very simple for me. Five years ago I spent €250 on a GPU. In these last five years my salary has not quite kept pace with inflation. I now have about €300 to spend on a GPU. If I can't buy a GPU that offers a significant performance uplift for the same relative amount of money, I'll just wait until I can. If it takes another five years, then so be it. It's up to nvidia to decide if they want €300 from me once every three years or every six. Yes, I'm aware there are other manufacturers. That's not the point I'm making.
13:06 same here. If that happened, I would instantly grab all the money under my mattress and buy one. I keep hardware for around 5 years, so I'm not spending my money on overpriced crap.
buy and sell 2nd hand. You get way more for your money to upgrade every 1-3 years instead. Especially when you are in no hurry, you can buy a good deal and sell old one at higher price
5 years your still buying into their trap. I had dual SLI 660 TI's to a Titan XP then to a 3080TI. I won't be upgrading till at least the 7xxx or 8xxx series releases.
Emotional support club!
The question about "will Nvidia GPUs ever go back down to normal pricing?" could have been answered quickly by saying:
Only if AMD and Intel become competitive with then on price /performance. Intel is vital because we need them to succeed as a third player in the market to have any hope of price reductions, and we need cards performing much nearer to the high end Nvidia cards, but priced at "normal" prices.
You get that, and Nvidia will have to lower their prices. (Funny how Hardware unboxed didn't mention Intel GPUs again?)
Mid gen refresh is always a hard sell. It's around a year away from the 50 series release, so the value on these new GPUs will likely diminish very quickly. The buyers would have missed out on a year's worth of high/higher end gaming as well.
Im stuck in limbo with a 1080ti its good enough to get by so I keep postponing an upgrade. Maybe 50 series will be worth?
@@viking9442buddy do you have any single player games that are sub 60 fps? 1080 Ti is old and might die on you any day now. I'd personally grab a 4070 and coast if you want a x3 uplift with the DLSS and new tech and upgrade from there. You'll be holding on every year if the 5000 series will be shit price to perf or another mining boom
@@viking9442The 40 series was worth it even high end Ampere over a damn 1080ti lol. If you don’t want to upgrade you never have to.
@@ZackSNetwork i see even the 4090 struggling in some recent games like cyberpunk and makes me want to wait a bit longer but thats with all the settings turned up.
Hmm, that card is pretty old but it's still capable. Depends on your circumstances. I guess it depends on the resolution you play at and the games you currently play/want to play. If the games aren't hitting the frame rate target you want or don't feel smooth then it might be worth the upgrade. If the games still feel smooth enough for you then hold out for next gen.
The main issue right now for me is efficiency as well. AMD is cheaper per frame at hardware price, but nvidia saves at the frame per watt enough that over a year or two the price difference is easily overcome. But the prices are shit anyway. And buying used is no solution, as the efficiency of the 30-Series isn't great as well...
If you all had to build a pc that is going to run 4k 60fps and 1440p with 120fps what would you build? I'm trying to build a pc but all the pricing for gpus has me struggling to choose
Depends on the game tbh but 4k 60fps without dlss is 4080/rx 7900xtx Level in demanding new games, 4070/7800xt Level in older games. If power draw and heat output is important buy nvida if price/Performance anf vram is more important get amd.
It is just great to have some Aussie presence online. I feel like it is hard for Aussies to break through or we dont even try much here on CZcams from Aus?
There are loads of massive Aussie YT channels. We punch well above our weight!
@@Hardwareunboxed my algorithm seems to hide them from me, I guess I need to do more searching
"I don't think its particularly great price"
You guys are trying really hard not to offend nvidia by mincing words.
When did that happen? Lets be real for a second now. 800$ for a graphic card? What?
That's cheap. 4090 is $2000
For a high performance card thats not really that expensive. Enthusiast PC gaming isnt really a thing for brokies anyway
Tbh, the only way we can stop this crazy pricing is not to buy them
5:44 I wish he would have mentioned both of the cards the guy mentioned in the question are 16x cards (7800XT / 4070 super). 16x cards will take less of a performance hit on PCI-E 3.0 systems. There are games that even in HU videos have shown have quite the drop in performance with Doom Eternal being one of them. This was when testing more budget orientated cards like the 6600XT that are 8x cards. Those 8x cards take bandwidth penalty when running on PCI-E 3.0 like their 16x older brothers but because they are half the lanes at 8x it takes a 2nd performance hit. Basically halving the bandwidth capability once on 3.0 boards and halved again when only 8x. 16x only get a single halved bandwidth hit where 8x cards get two.
With the used market and open box market I don't know why people don't simply take good pictures of the board running and then it boxed up. It will usually sell for $50-100 depending on the used board. Then go buy a X570S/X570/B550 open box or used for $70+. I did that on 5 PC's in my house and most were only $20 max out of pocket. X570 is nice when you want to run multiple NVMe drives without taking a bandwidth hit like on B450/B550.
27:45 but it would be nice to have A.I. tools that are localized and make use of the powerful computing hardware we invested in than having to rely on some centralized hosted server doing the task requiring that you always have to be online, worse pay a subscription to use their service.
The higher prices are here to stay until the market is flooded by cheap Chinese GPUs. That reality is still 15 years away.
Wtf are you talking about?
@@ASS_aultChina is starting to enter the GPU market, currently it sucks a LOT for gaming, and it’s something usable for productivity (only its government uses it).
So, it will take time but probably it will reach the same quality while being cheaper.
This already happened to a lot of tech industries, like EVs .
15 years is a lot. But i also think that not less than 7-10 years
@@joaogabriels.f.5143 why do you think it would be cheaper though?
@@ASS_ault is just a guess based on Chinese products in general. For this topic, I’m basing more cases of tech products like cellphones and EVs.
They are normally cheaper, mostly because of the production/labor cost of China.
Including tech fields, because they are backed by government incentives (like taxes, subsidies, etc).
The argument for why Tim shouldn't only earn a wage, and should be a co-owner of the company, sounds surprisingly similar to Karl Marx's argument for the importance of workers owning the means of production!
Yeah, but this example makes sense as the worker is everything.
Except you're missing the fact that a worker doesn't know the logistics of running and operating a business in most cases. Employees should be compensated based upon their work and performance. Also of course leaving out how Marxist ideologies has lead to the genocide of countless innocent lives.
oh❤
25:00 HDR does impact FPS, I enabled it on Tiny Tina's Wonderland's and saw a 10 FPS hit on a 4070 ti
One thing about HDR. It is impossible to use HDR with black frame insertion. So you have to maje your choice.