Bigger castings, melting and making alloy CNC parts with epoxy layer damping
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- It will fill our largest crucible right to the brim, but we are attempting to melt some aluminium in the new waste veg oil furnace, pour it, and make a casting for the large CNC machine. This will be the z-axis carrier plate - the part that travels the length of the gantry and provides a platform for the z’s linear motion carriages, ball screw and servo motor.
See the CNC thrown together and in action here: • How to use a 'Gravity-...
Want to see our experiments with the y-axis gantry? video here: • Experiments in Gantry ...
23 metal casting tips (which is also the video where we make the large z axis spindle plate). • Al Metal Casting: Tips...
The 3D model of the CNC AND a document explaining how to use DIY mixed 'metalized epoxy' to massively aid in machine building are both available for a tokenistic amount in our Ko-fi shop here: ko-fi.com/floweringelbow/shop
If you enjoy our videos, consider buying us a coffee ko-fi.com/floweringelbow
Here's Olfoundryman’s great video about pouring technique • Basin and sprue design...
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Check out our secondary channel "Flowering Elbow 4 Super Nerds" here: / @floweringelbow4supern...
00:00 Intro to the melting and casting project
00:18 Preparing the pattern
00:39 Ramming up the flask with green sand
02:00 The mulling / mixing machine - increasing moisture content
02:13 Harvesting scrap aluminum (alloy wheels are my usual source)
02:42 Improvements to sprue, runner, pouring basin and gating design + a few casting tips and tricks
04:27 Splitting the flask, removing the pattern
06:00 A word on the new waste oil furnace
07:07 The big pour!
08:44 The casting reveal
10:17 Machining the casting’s critical surfaces
11:30 Epoxy damping takes the stage
14:31 Implementing epoxy
15:00 tweaking the constrained layer damping
15:36 dealing with counterbore difficulties
Lets Connect!
Our website: www.FloweringElbow.org
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I can't believe that counterbore trick worked. What a spectacular solution to a weird problem.
been there, done that
Well i think the majority of us have not seen this trick before. So it was really cool to see and i may need to use in the future.
@@jst6757 why didn't you tell anyone?
The home gamer casting is absolutely amazing! I would be so intimidated by that process.
So impressed.
Hey thanks friend. Maybe it doesn't come across in the video, but I was damn intimidated by the whole thing :D
Support your channel ,from indonesia mr 😂😂❤❤
Much respect, this is some next level work! I'm very interested in how this evolves.
Much appreciated Kent, working on it ;) edit: some progress :) czcams.com/video/obR-l7qVhQY/video.html
Love this! I also made a CNC out of cast aluminium. I then used that to make my current one which is mainly cast iron. Cant wait to see the inevitable progression to cast iron melts in the back yard!
Thanks for the shout outs. I must say that after lots of watching turd polishers melt down whatever they find on the side of the road and cast it into ingots that they then polish and put on a shelf it is a breath of fresh air to see someone cast something that they are actually going to use - well done!. There are some interesting things here - the constrained layer damping and that wonderful trick with the counterbores. There were some issues though (as I am sure you haver already worked out for yourself) and I will email you about some of those as time permits. I do have a milling machine big enough to face that part in one go but - alas (for you!) I am a long way from Wales 😊... Martin
PS Boy that is one mother of a machine you are building.
Good day Martin. Thank you so much for watching and taking the time to message. Very much appreciate that!
Shame you're not closer, haha. Yeah, it's constantly surprising that CZcams keeps pushing melting vids where what is being made is an aluminium muffin! Not to say this hulk of a cnc is much better ;)
Will see...
Ps. Any other feedback you have would be more than welcome 🙏.
God knows I need it!
Super rigid cnc mr,amazing your project 😂😂😂❤
Reminds me of the 1800s when my great grandfather cast his own cnc machine.
I'd love to see more of the epoxy damping layer, any papers/guides/calculations that you used If such a thin layer can have a good effect between multiple bolted plates of aluminum, then it would be a nice alternative to making massive epoxy granite castings.
A thousand times, “yes!”. This project is awesome.
LOL. Thanks, Anthony! The next episode of the CNC project continues here: czcams.com/video/CCBsAKCMTME/video.html
Fantastic job! I am so glad I watched this. Thank you for sharing your skills and knowledge.
Hey OJB, Really appreciate all your comments. Nice idea with the welding blanket. We did the next bigger casting to go with the one in this video (the spindle carrier plate, I guess it might be called) . Am just in the process of editing the video in-fact. It was an 'interesting' process and we learned a lot about bigger castings, and got to try out the new crucible tongs for real!
@@FloweringElbow thank you for your kind reply. I look forward to learning more as you plumb deeper into the art snd craft of casting.
Sincerely,
Robert Booth
ojb
Hello friend! That is a thing of beauty. Excellent work.
A guy I used to work for always said "Good experience comes from bad experiences." We appreciate you sharing your learnings.
Well said! I'm gonna use that one :)
so awesome !!!!!
Great to see you again man
Thanks for watching friend! This is all a big experiment for us, and we'd love to hear your thoughts...
If you would like to support us, earn our unending gratitude AND get the 3D CAD model of this CNC to play with, consider making a small donation, go here: ko-fi.com/s/906751d449
Peace n Love,
bongo and sam
Glad to see you post! Catchy title. Will watch tonight.
Hey thanks man! Been a bit out of the loop, great to hear from you. Reminds me I have like 6 months of your vids to catch up on ;)
Nice Done ! .... Amazing patience.....
Good to see you casting again. With the veggie oil furnace you can pour as many iron castings as you want.
Good morning Luckygen. An honor to have you comment on my piffling efforts. I love your castings. Although watching your vids gives me some confidence, cast iron scares me a bit, I must admit.
At the moment, I'm looking for aluminum alloy ones anyway, for the strength/weight ratio... My current challenge is making them big enough ;)
@@FloweringElbow The best way to start melting iron is to make half a sand mold of round bar and then put some iron in a crucible and it does not need to be full for the first time. Just pour the iron into the mold. This is to see how well your new furnace works, a very simple test.
Love your work
Well done man.
Cool! How I envy you, in a good sense. You have a place for a beautiful workshop.
Beauty!
you are learning, i have always counterbored my socket head cap screws as standard practice, i guess that explains why it is the standard they teach in machine design back in the day.
Your counterboring made my day :D :D !
Hey Martin. Thanks 😊
Nice job
2:03 OHHHHHHH! definitely add more moisture...
There's a guy named Ford on CZcams that's a master at casting aluminum and all types of metals he actually has a lot of videos making automotive parts and some of them are huge
Impressive!
glad I have notifications on^^
Absolutely love this! Nicely done. If I’d have come across those capheads hitting the carriage that would of been project done for me 😂😂
Hey Tom, thanks for watching bro, appreciate the encouragement :)
You give up that easily Tom?
thnak ,for your video
Perfect.Thank you
Thanks for watching :)
Absolutely great work, amazing to watch :-) Thumbs up :-)
Hahaha the dead battery mill work play by play was classic 🤣
kepçe ile lastiği ordan çıkarmak daha büyük bir yetenek. İyi çalışma...
Nice work nice machine you built there!
Good day Agapios, thank you 😊 it's far from finished, but getting there...
It was worth wait!
Good Morning James. Really appreciate that, thanks :D
@@FloweringElbow Can't wait to see more! Thank you for making such inspiring projects!
Ficou top. voce é bom, parabens.
nice jobe
There's counter bores that can be pulled rather than pushed, check with aircraft repair suppliers
learn a lot indeed, great video
Thanks Tariq, appreciate that :D
impressive casting, great tips, not seen a spin trap before. epoxy recipie, iron filings., I must try it. , made a moglice type one with molibdmum disulphde and brass powder. Amazing build.
Muito bom!!!! assistindo do Brasil.
Here's a tip to remove the sand from inside the tube once it has been pushed into the packed sand. just take a dowl or anything with a flat bottom that fits down inside that tube and simply repack the sand inside the tube before pulling it away from the flask. You will find that all the sand will stay in the tube.
Look into "reverse counter bores" from your cutting tool supplies. Nice job👍
Good idea for the counter bores. When you machined the casting, you were using a fly cutter. The larger the diameter of cutter you use, the more this will amplify any inaccuracies in the squareness of your head. Rough with the fly cutter then finish with the smallest size of cutter that is practical.
Hi Chris, thanks for sharing your knowledge about the fly cutters, will consider that in future operations.
dude this is immense can't believe the sub count, think you might blow up!
Extension bar for extension bar! LOL!!! :-))))))) And thank for vid! Great and inspiring job!
I love ut so much
Great
You can roll out the putty between the wooden parts of the model with a steel ball from the bearing. Then you won't have to do any additional grinding work.
fiber reinforced cement works as a fantastic weight adder and resonant frequency dampener across many frequencies encountered in cnc designs.
Great point! In fact the steel frame's I-beams are filled with fibre reinforced cement ;) I'll do another video about the frame at some point.
amazing
Thank you! Cheers!
Either go big, or go home," and you went big! Now your champion standing, "way to go dude.". You are the man! Like & Subscribe, and Thumbs up all the way."
LOL Good morning Master-G Big, and thanks man, appreciate that! Just working on editing the video about making and testing the concrete and steel cnc frame at the moment, so your comment is really helping me stay motivated. Peace, Bongo.
this gave me total ignition of that project. i saw the fishbox and thought. boy. you ARE on the east coast. and you KNOW where the clay is. get. some. and make some experiments in the oven.
and get your fxxx dream design and cast yo fx own damn fat and heavy beauty Z-Axis.
Also saw the axis signature on your Pullover, btw. so. just cooking 40 liters of aluminium tins right!!! lol. Id better start smaller. but, zzzz. hell. a project. the project must start!!!
Good luck brother! 👍 Have been using the machine today - very satisfying :)
my dude how are you so fookin clever
but moments later you had to counterbore a part you had already epoxied and I laughed so very hard at you. heckuva macgyver to fix it!! this channel is terrific
Respect
Parabéns.
I always support the bottom of the flask with a board when I'm turning it. I've had one or two drop out on me I the past
Hey Dave. Yeah it's the first time I've done it, so obvious and words well...
I'd love to know what you are doing for epoxy casting in general along with resources on how to do proper epoxy layer dampening. Got any to share?
Hey Thorhian, not got any to hand right now sorry. I will be making vids on the subject in the future though...
your enthusiasm is contagious ahhahahahahahha nice work man
Nice to see you making more stuff from scratch. Shame I am on the other side of the pond. I would take care of milling your part. I am sure you will make a killer machine when done. Good day and peace to you too. vf
This is great! It looks like it takes a ton of work to do all those castings. I'm too impatient so I just buy a big old block of metal and just make the machine delete everything that needs deleting haha. I would help you with the large part machining if you're willing to pay for the international shipping.
Hey Reini. thanks for sharing. Really appreciate your offer too, where are you in the world? I will hold out for UK help (for now at least).
10:27 to 11:10 was probably more enjoyable than watching the actual footage.
Es un excelente trabajo, te agradecería mejor video . Gracias.
look into high power piezo speakers/vibrators. you can setup a rig that attaches to your form. emits a high power frequency and allows you to remove it with far less sticking.
I could see the first sand collapse coming (among other issues, your mold frames are not sufficiently rigid, methinks, and how long did you allow the sand to dry/set before turning) but it didn't stop me wincing in sympathy - it's happened to everyone - I did the same thing when I was learning casting and foundry. Do you have an expansion additive? What is your green sand formula, and which additives are you using? If you have insufficient additives, your sand will NEVER have sufficient strength to hold its own weight. Additives can also dramatically impact surface finish, although that's a tweak for anyone not doing it regularly. As others commented, I'm very impressed to finally see someone doing some casting for functional parts, and not, as you say, "aluminum muffins", LOL. I've already subscribed to the majority of the CZcams Machine Shop Mafia, I think I shall add your ch to my list. Carry on as you were!
Also, speaking as an ex-manufacturing engineer with a reasonable shop and decades of experience, your work ethic and ambition are off the charts! I've never dreamed of going after a project this ambitious. Then too, I haven't the space to put a gantry type machine, but that's kinda beside the point. My hat is off to you, sir.
Good morning Railgap Esoterica. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comment. Much appreciated. The green sand I have been using is very simple - basically sand with ~8% bentonite clay and water... Tell me more about the additives. What would an expansion additive be (be for?)? As you clearly can clearly see I am climbing the steep learning curve here, juts cresting a rise, to see the epic size of the mountain ahead!
Thanks again, Bongo.
Bravo ok
I love how this build is going. I know its a year old, I am quite curious what Spindle your using now!
Hey thanks Savant. 😊 if you have a look at some of the recent vids where you can see the machine going, there is all that kind of stuff in the video descriptions... in some of the vids, I talk about the spindle. Thanks again.
Generally you made a great work for a non professional foundry men. I am advising you the next: 1.The ferrule must not be inside but it must be opening on the air so make-it longer and with a 20% larger in diameter, also usually it is in a conical in shape to contain sufficient aluminium which will be suct in the piece when it will be contracting. 2. The horizontal alimentation channel is much too small for your piece, try to make-it larger let's say approximately 4 times from the actual section. This will give you a faster and continuum filling of the casting form, other way you will have porosity in the final piece. 3. Never, but never use 2 alimentations (vertical end tubes), usually the pouring is made by the ferrule from the middle. 4. Make another supplementary channels on the both ends like the one you made-it from the ferrule to the piece. That way the the mold will be filled evenly in 3 parts, 2 in the ends and one in the middle. The piece is relatively large and if it is not fed correctly you will get porosity and blows (holes) inside. The casting temperature should be approximately 680 degrees for a silicon aluminum which contain silicom and magnezium (Si, Mn) like you are using 5. When you take out the model do not lift it directly, hit it lightly with a hammer at both ends to compact the sand and make room. It will come out without breaking the mold. Good luck !
Really appreciate that advice Catalin. Thank you!
This is fokken cool bro! : D : D : D : D
Can you use the CNC you're building by making some temporary fixes, to mill the sides of the large casting mentioned at the end of the video? It'd be badass to say you used it to build itself!
It's a nice idea. I'll consider this one ;)
Interesting, containing the bearings within the foot print of the next axis bearings is a design element often overlooked but worth its weight in smarties in adding rigidity and constraining the lines of force.
One problem I do see... (you are not the first or last to do it), the gantry rails... take a look at the loading specs, they have different loadings for different directions of force. The maximum strength when being pushed down from above, its a massive number too.. but only minimal strength / rigidity when pulling up... With the positioning of both of the rails facing forward, you will get a discrepency between X+ and X- strength / capability if Z is under or generating a load.
The ideal solution is to have one rail facing up, and one down. Then the strength is the same on X+ and X- while Z is under load, the downward pressure of the spindle hits the side load of the rail which has a far better loading than the botton loading it would see if X- was under load from Z. With this top / bottom setup and the bearing footprint element, shortest possible distances between the "levers" formed by each axis, sub 5 microns accuracy is possible and achievable. (The
This was very painful to watch. I feel your pain. I'm about to embark on the journey of casting engine blocks and heads.
But very nice piece 👍
Thank you kindly for the tip Juan, great to hear from a pro!
G00D！
Ya know with it just being aluminum, instead of using a bigger machine for you long part, You could rough it out to almost spec in 2 or 3 passes with your small mill, then reference and clamp a straight edge to the part for a fence and use a router to make a very small single finishing pass. Before I had larger machines I have done similar operations and it works better than you'd think it would. I've used a regular hand held wood router and bit on 6061 t6 at 1" thickness with no problems. You just have to take VERY small bites and keep steady hands.
Hey rasjase. Thanks for this, I hadn't even considered the possibility of doing it that way. Defo gonna thank about this as an option to play with. Thanks again, Bongo.
I know this video is a bit of a while ago but if it's of any use in future projects I have a Bridgeport. I'm trying to find the enthusiasm to get around to replacing the worn out base, knee, saddle and table with a chrome ways version I have in storage.
Hey Sophie, really appreciate the offer thanks! In the end, I used the metalized epoxy replication technique to make the mounting surfaces for the z rails. I think it would have been MUCH easier on a Bridgeport, but still. Funny that a lot of the satisfaction in getting the CNC half working, is in knowing we could have done this operation on the z plate sooo much easier with it - and we have already done it ;)
Good luck with the Bridgeport chrome way, revamp - sounds like it will be awesome when done.
Thanks to your details info of CNC Machine I'm planning to but I can't find linear guide rail in my town so I checking online and prices look good but the shipping over than equipment as purchase. So miserable.
Hey thanks, Rany. Watched a bunch of your videos. Like what you are doing - some very cool-looking machines you are making.
Now we see info together cause Sb
A great video, thanks for sharing. Can I ask what the name of your y-axis ball screw is? I have seen them in other machine video demos but not ever been able to find them online.
Hi Aaron, It's a HIWIN Ground Ball Screw NNB R20-20K2-FSC-1423-1500-0.018 BSC-I-500
It was ~£200 from a Korean seller on E-bay (new old stock)
Hope that helps, and thanks for watching ;)
@@FloweringElbow perfect. thank you!
@@aarondcmedia9585 welcom
Why not try casting with epoxy granite?
Amazing project. We are lucky to see it.
I have made some parts with EG. It's expensive not as rigid per unit mass as alu. So worth using strategically. .. an update on this project soon
this is quite good work, despite the trouble you've had! Certainly it's far bigger than anything I have cast, and your surface finish looks quite good.
Also I too have and love that sweater; with the dangerous cold here in New England (-13 F or -25 C!) this weekend it served me very well. Do you all on your side of the Atlantic also call it the "wooly-pully?"
also: it has been a year and I am on another continent, but I'd always be happy to put my 'normal sized' Bridgeport to use in service of your excellent projects. The shipping costs are likely to be prohibitive for this in truth, but the willingness at least is there, for whatever that might be worth.
Hi Stripey! Thanks, friend, I appreciate that. The castings got significantly better as I went along and slowly started getting a clue as to what I was doing! Some of the final ones are not even too bad ;)
As to the 'jumper' as we call em, I will be using 'wooly-pully' from now on :D
Did counterbore before, no way of doing it your way ,,putting the shaft though the hole pulling it back I had 52 holes to counterbore in a fibreglass housing for a large laser housing for a Oxford, England university science lab it took two days to do with the resharpening 😎
Once you're confident into casting large pieces, your design skills will be on a whole different level. Also... I would use phenolic resin binder for the sand (also called air-set), it's a game changer.
Awesome work! Have u researched epoxy granite cement? It has amazing rigidity AND sound dampening. I feel like Incorporating it into your project would've made certain parts easier AND probably even more rigid!
Good morning Jacko, thanks for reaching out. Yes, we have looked into epoxy granite (and concrete). In fact we do a fair bit with it on the gantry. There's a vid of that here: czcams.com/video/obR-l7qVhQY/video.html
We also use a kind of GFR concrete on the machine frame, where the excess weight doesn't hurt acceleration any (so we can use loads of it :) You can check that out here: czcams.com/video/cqYJS27aC4w/video.html
Thanks again, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow oops should've watched the whole thing before commenting! I've been searching CZcams a bunch for making my Chinese mini lathe more rigid. And i came upon the epoxy granite. I've done a little forging myself and it's super fun, and satisfying, but the epoxy granite seems so easy! Obviously the whole thing can't be made from it, i guess i was just wondering if u knew off hand of the reasons why metal is better in certain places? Thanks for the response love your channel!
@@theGraphicAutist Well it's tricky to say, metal, well steel at least, is much more rigid, strong and durable than EG, but then it rings like a bell,, depending on what geometric configuration it's in, so can suffer from vibration... EG is great at damping and has some structural properties... Most peeps try and combine to get the best of both..
I work for Leeds foundry w cooks.. Add a few more vents for much faster filling
Hey Pablo, I don't no the specifics sorry, it was salvaged from a CDdrive If you get stuck this is the kind of thing you want goo.gl/mTHpQf . Look for ones with a nice long shaft.
Have not been following along in over a year here. Wth are you building?... looks like the ways to a four axis cnc machine. If not that will be... be one bad ass lathe jig. I watched whilst stuffing my piehole today and answering voice messages. Two devices of course 👂👀
Keep on keepin' on 😎
Haha. Hi Ken, thanks for watching my friend! it's a 3 axis machine, for now at least ; )
Should be good for milling aluminium, well that's the dream anyway. Peace, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow Any more forward progress?
I'm think about something like this myself on tracks to face monster slabs.
Thank you for the great content even though. Its a little over my head. Only thing IV cast. Melted beer cans. In ant hill. Only thing come of that dead ants
Could not dig it up
If you ever have to drive a bit with an extension again, an easier way to do it is to grind a square that fits into the female end of a socket extension and use that to drive it.
Nice tip Siggy. thanks
Hi friend... I don't know if you read these comments... I actually enjoyed your build.... although, I am a designer, and I want to put this into CAD... specifically SolidWorks V2022. And I have a few changes I want to make. I would enjoy to benefit from some of your experience... such as what size your ball screw is, and where you got your parts. What size Servo Motors, and where did you get your controllers and other electronics. I am a mechanical designer, not an electronics guy. That is why I am asking for such information. I hope you can help me. Have you put together a materials list and where to get the materials? Also some tips about setting up and software you are using for your setup. I do have access to CNC Mill, and a nice lathe and surface grinder and other equipment so I can do this project. So... if you would be inclined to assist me I would really appreciate it.
If your willing to assist me... I am willing to provide you with my designs, and also the plans I make. P.S. setting up the electronics is going to be an issue for me. I can put together components to build computers... so I do have some experience with playing with electronics. But I have never worked with controllers and servos.
I can be reached at... I am Leslieallen inventorshaven@proton.me Please contact me. Friend... if you have Signal Messenger it would be a big help, that way we can easily communicate using video or messaging. I prefer video actually. Anyway, write to us if your willing. Thank you. I will post this on each of your pages... so hopefully you will see it.
You are Unique.
And I do have bigger machinery,
And would love to help you,
Live in Wales,
New South Wales
that is..
Hey Carl. You had me there for a moment. No probs though, I'll hop on a plane tonight, see you in a day or two... ;)
Where did you calculate the epoxy damping membrane thickness? I'd like to know, also if you found it in any literature then that would be swell. Btw. nice project, especially forging your own parts, that is amazing.
Hey Christian, I didn't calculate it properly... Just going with an enforced design change really. I suspect it would be a very difficult calculation on such specific geometry.
@@FloweringElbow it would be done in a FEM simulation, but there are analytical calculations for epoxy damping of simple geometries, but everything i could find requires money to purchase literature without a guarantee of it actually covering the subject in the way I'd like.
I think counter sunk flat heads would have been way more rigid and secure than the button heads
круто! но надо типо д16т алюминий- твердый закаленный, а тут получился обычный амг - мягкий!
Хинди Мунз, спасибо за просмотр. Да, он немного мягкий, но работает нормально. Я думаю, что я использовал Al390, который довольно твердый для литейного сплава;)
@FloweringElbow Complete novice here, but could you not do lost foam casting using polystrene or similar? you could allow an extra mm or two for machining for true surfaces
Good morning ChickenNoodleSuper. Thanks for watching and your thought. Indeed I could have! In fact, that's how I cast the two gantry endplates. There are difficulties with both methods - mainly I wanted to try something different.
Hello!
Do I see it right, that the whole gantry of your CNC is made of epoxy granite? I have this idea in my head for a while now, but still not sure, if it has any chance to achieve. It seems, that you found that chance. Would you share some informations about the gantry (material, ratio, etc...).
Greetings
Hi there Dubinek500, thanks for watching. The gantry is a composite construction. It's made from aluminium extrusion, some cast alloy parts and epoxy granite... It feels like it will be very good at suppressing vibration but we still haven't used it for proper machining yet. We will make a whole video on the gantry soon!
@@FloweringElbow Cool, i would really apriciate that :) I will be glad, if you will add some info about weight and steppers/servos etc... :) Keep it up, love your channel!
you don't need metal or money by using combined plates of uhpgc concrete (compressive strength) and unidirectional fiber reinforced recycled plastic (tensile strength). you can make your own rack (with removable top layer with reinforced plastic to replace after wear) and roller pinion systems to avoid expensive screws and linear motion rails
You scared the heck out of me with the battery out sound
Hey Jerenable, thanks for watching. oops, sorry about that ;)
@@FloweringElbow I did think it was quite humourous though
moulding sand needs clay. green sand solidifies using co2
A 5 or 6 blade fly cutter would be far better to produce a good surface and allow higher feed rates. You could run a 3” on that for sure. I have ran 4.5” with R9 spindles for years never had an issue.