I wish every instructional video had clear concise details like this on their subject matter. Thank you for using your clearly vast knowledge to make something complex understandable to a layman like me!
I am really enjoying these videos I find them extremely helpful. Living and working out of my van, I am finding it hard to restore the amount of amp hours I use each day. I having been looking at Lithium because you can charge at a higher amperage which would allow me to install a higher amp DC-DC so I could restore more AH with less overall driving. I have somewhat eliminated solar as a option since I often park in shade or I am dealing with cloudy weather, and many of the portable options are too low wattage to supply enough amperage to be worth the storage space in my van. Jason
Hi Jason, thanks for your message and for sharing the thoughts on your energy setup. If I would be in your situation I would probably consider similar options. I know of several others who travel by water & road, and who have chosen for lithium-based batteries in combination with high capacity charging equipment [eg. generators, alternators]. This often works really well and once they got it set up, they wouldn't want it any other way. It's pretty magical to fully recharge your battery bank in 1-2 hours :). PS Not to overstate the obvious, but renewables & on-demand power options don't exclude each other. Most of the systems I described above still top-up and/or are assisted by solar/wind. Good luck & enjoy! Jesse
@@LivingHouseless With Li-Ion batteries you do *NOT* have to worry about PSOC = Partial-State-Of-Charge. That is a huge benefit. But the up front cost of Li-Ion is much higher. If you plan on keeping the Li-Ion Batteries for 10 YEARS, then Li-Ion should be considered. If you can't afford brand new Li-Ion, then purchase good used Li-Ion. If you do not have a large enough PV array to recharge, then what are you using?
Thanks for the discussion on specsmanship, particularly regarding degradation. And weight can be totally unimportant in stationary solar power systems.
Hello Leathley! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video. And you are definitely correct, this video 'zoomed in' on the Performance Comparison only; If you are interested in the financial comparison, then the video about "The True Cost of LiFePO4 batteries" might be off interest to you. Here is the link, have fun! czcams.com/video/xyTI1vGK4-I/video.html
It's not true when you say you can typically discharge a lead acid battery only upto 50%. You can discharge them all the way. Also lead acid can deliver very high current when required. Jump starting a car, for example. If you don't have space or weight constraint, tall tubular flooded lead acid is still the best choice. You just keep adding distilled water to it once a month, calculate your battery bank so that you don't go beyond 80% depth of discharge and they will last for 15+ years.
Now here is a man who knows what he is talking about! Great feedback, thanks Rajarshi. You are absolutely right about the 50% DOD: These videos have very specific topics [eg. Lithium Vs. Lead Acid], and in order to keep the content short, it is often necessary to generalize certain information. It might actually be a good idea to share a separate video on this, in order to 'debunk' the 50% DOD topic. And thumbs up for the tubular FLA, these are industrial muscle-batteries. Thanks for your contribution to the channel. Jesse.
Hi Jesse I m enjoying for teaching I learned a lot from this video.please can you post a formula to calculate how many batteries must be install if the load is 100A
This is great and all correct but.....Lithium is used for cars because of weight and charging speed and discharge power. I still believe that Lead Acid is better and cheaper in a solar set up. My trojans have a lifespan of 17 years or 12500 cycles @80% or 10 years, 7500 cycles @50% This must be about total cost of ownership and Lead Acid is way better. Lithium batteries are also cylindrical so are not very good with A/H vs size. Two of my Trojans 6V have 600 A/H at 12V and the equivalent with Lithium in A/H over size are 5 times larger but the Lead Acid are way heavier
But the BMS can / will SEVERELY limit the Discharge Current from a Li-Ion Battery. In most cases, the Lead Acid battery will provide more Discharge amps.
Hello Mark, thanks for you message. It's good to hear you enjoyed the video. Great suggestion! I will upload a series on system calculations soon. All the best, Jesse.
How and why do we "balance" LA batteries? I have 18 AGM 100AH very high-quality batteries. I have them in series parallel (12 VDC X3 = 26 volt). I hear a million different ways I am supposed to wire them and charge them. What is the real way?
What I don't like about lead, is that you shouldn't go bellow 50% and that you shouldn't leave battery at that SoC for too long (LFP don't like that too but are less sensitive to it). And this is exactly what happens with Solar - you charge during day and discharge during night. Other thing is, when sun shines for short time, charging lead from 80% to 100% is very ineffective and you may end up loosing lot of energy and end up with available discharge from 80% to 50%. But looking at some new carbon Lead acid, with 15 years lifetime, 4000 cycles at 40% discharge ... it actually is 1/2 of the LFP price per discharged kWh. Thanks for interesting input!
Trojan 12 Volt @ 472 Ah costs $1,100 and provides 3,600 CYCLES @ 50% DOD. Battle Born 12 Volt @ 100 Ah costs $1,000 and provides 3,600 CYCLES at 100% DOD Li-Ion still can not compete with Lead Acid ...
Thank you for a great video. Good information and very well structured. Do you think you can also cover something about the earthing system of an off-grid project? Is it really necessary to have a separate earthing point for your solar panels than the one of your house? The battery negative should be connected to an earthing system?
An excellent suggestion, thank you Mihai. I will most definitely make a separate video on this, and will I will let you know once it is online. It's also good to hear you enjoy the [structured] format of the videos, thanks for your feedback! All the best, Jesse.
Looking for a mixed solar panel calculator. I have not been able to find a calculator that allows me to enter different panels with different specs and then to compare the outputs, parallel vs series, to a single charge controller (1 array). I know how to calculate this on paper, just wish a spreadsheet expert would design this tool.
I have found, especially in my country South Africa, that the use of a Lead Acid "Continuous Monitoring System", is exceedingly rare. The main reason for this seems to be price. Do you have any information or statistics about the advantages of using a BMS system that measures each battery in a string and how the active management of these batteries can improve the life expectancy and performance of the batteries? There does not seem to be much information from the BMS suppliers on the web. Thanks for the great videos and information. Regards, Geoff
How do these compare to heated water storage? 90% of our house energy use is for heating. I also miss recycling options. How to EV/LA compare in how good they can be turned into new batteries.
Find your video today.. looks clear.. almost no one matters the bms which is needed for controlling each cell.. a lot of electronics, which also have to do the whole warranty time.. Also 80 % of the lithium battery,s are from china,, so sometimes the expected lifetime, capacity, will be on the high side, so compared to the best brand of lead battery,s in europe ( like hoppecke or bae ) this will be more stable and confident in stationairy systems.. Also the risk of fire..with lithium.. but with lead acid you need proper ventilation.. (with stationary not so difficult) And if you have a larger capacity in your battery bank,, your soc can be easily more than 70 % which expands the lifetime substantially ..
The C rating describes an amperage relative to the batterie's capacity. You can find C ratings with the number before and after the C. When the number is before the C, that means x times the capacity, for example you can discharge a 100Ah battery with a 3C rating with 300A. This variant is usually used to describe the maximum charge/discharge current. If the nuber is behind the C, that means capacity divided by x, for example if you would discharge that 100Ah battery with 5A, that would be at C20. This variant is often used to describe the effective capacity at different discharge rates for lead acid batteries.
hi Sir - great content as always and much appreciated. Please can you settle a discussion we are having - is it advisable to mix different brands of LiFePO4 batteries together?
Can I hook up 2 100watt panels in series (to satisfy 24v battery bank)and add 1 more in parallel (to get a few extra amps as well) ??? For a series/parallel system? I have tracer4215bn charge controller.( my system is : 2 - 12v 100ah batteries in series for 24v and 3 -100watt panels, 3000watt 24v inverter and tracer4215 bn) Thanks for sharing 🍸
No, you would need 4 100-watt panels to do that. Panels in parallel have to have the same voltage, and panels in series have to have the same amperage.
Thank you for message and question: I think you have a valid and excellent question there, worth a separate video! I will let you know once I have shared it on the channel. Thank you, Jesse
@Solar Solution .thanks for your information ... can you please clarify as to are the better "quality " lead acid batteries construction would be ...so that viewers can distinguish them in the market place .
@@SolarSolution Maybe he means the internal resistance of two parallel battery,s which is slight different, so one of them "pulls" to the other.. in charge or discharge modus..
I wish every instructional video had clear concise details like this on their subject matter. Thank you for using your clearly vast knowledge to make something complex understandable to a layman like me!
Glad it was helpful!
I am really enjoying these videos I find them extremely helpful. Living and working out of my van, I am finding it hard to restore the amount of amp hours I use each day. I having been looking at Lithium because you can charge at a higher amperage which would allow me to install a higher amp DC-DC so I could restore more AH with less overall driving. I have somewhat eliminated solar as a option since I often park in shade or I am dealing with cloudy weather, and many of the portable options are too low wattage to supply enough amperage to be worth the storage space in my van.
Jason
Hi Jason, thanks for your message and for sharing the thoughts on your energy setup. If I would be in your situation I would probably consider similar options.
I know of several others who travel by water & road, and who have chosen for lithium-based batteries in combination with high capacity charging equipment [eg. generators, alternators].
This often works really well and once they got it set up, they wouldn't want it any other way. It's pretty magical to fully recharge your battery bank in 1-2 hours :).
PS Not to overstate the obvious, but renewables & on-demand power options don't exclude each other. Most of the systems I described above still top-up and/or are assisted by solar/wind.
Good luck & enjoy!
Jesse
@@SolarSolution thanks Jesse
@@LivingHouseless With Li-Ion batteries you do *NOT* have to worry about PSOC = Partial-State-Of-Charge. That is a huge benefit. But the up front cost of Li-Ion is much higher. If you plan on keeping the Li-Ion Batteries for 10 YEARS, then Li-Ion should be considered. If you can't afford brand new Li-Ion, then purchase good used Li-Ion. If you do not have a large enough PV array to recharge, then what are you using?
Jesse, well done on your clear, concise and credible information, and in an understandable format. Thank you for sharing your learning and knowledge.
Thank you Nick, that is a great compliment you just gave me. I am glad to hear you enjoyed the video. All the best, Jesse.
I love how straightforward this guy is.
Also, Trojan batteries have an insane cycle life, nipping at the heels of lithium.
Thanks Edward! I agree with you on Trojan's cycle life, especially the industrial 2V's.
Thanks for the discussion on specsmanship, particularly regarding degradation. And weight can be totally unimportant in stationary solar power systems.
Thanks for your message BearChow, it is good to hear you are enjoying this content on the channel. Jesse
Excellent video, thanks.
Although you avoided the most important comparison factor for a lot of people...
....Cost...
Hello Leathley! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video. And you are definitely correct, this video 'zoomed in' on the Performance Comparison only; If you are interested in the financial comparison, then the video about "The True Cost of LiFePO4 batteries" might be off interest to you. Here is the link, have fun! czcams.com/video/xyTI1vGK4-I/video.html
@@SolarSolution Thanks for that.
Thanks for that information. Very concise and easy to understand. Thanks a lot!
Glad you enjoyed it!
It's not true when you say you can typically discharge a lead acid battery only upto 50%. You can discharge them all the way.
Also lead acid can deliver very high current when required. Jump starting a car, for example.
If you don't have space or weight constraint, tall tubular flooded lead acid is still the best choice. You just keep adding distilled water to it once a month, calculate your battery bank so that you don't go beyond 80% depth of discharge and they will last for 15+ years.
Now here is a man who knows what he is talking about! Great feedback, thanks Rajarshi. You are absolutely right about the 50% DOD: These videos have very specific topics [eg. Lithium Vs. Lead Acid], and in order to keep the content short, it is often necessary to generalize certain information. It might actually be a good idea to share a separate video on this, in order to 'debunk' the 50% DOD topic. And thumbs up for the tubular FLA, these are industrial muscle-batteries. Thanks for your contribution to the channel. Jesse.
to many claimed unbiased comparison's out there Will wear on a person, thank you for this and your other videos
You are so welcome!
You are a great teacher thank you for sharing your knowledge .
You are most welcome Dimitris, thank you for your kind words. All the best, Jesse.
Thanks for your shearing such knowledge
You are welcome Bash, thanks for your message.
Thank you!
You're welcome Luis!
Very good video .
Glad you liked it Nicu!
Hi Jesse I m enjoying for teaching I learned a lot from this video.please can you post a formula to calculate how many batteries must be install if the load is 100A
This is great and all correct but.....Lithium is used for cars because of weight and charging speed and discharge power. I still believe that Lead Acid is better and cheaper in a solar set up. My trojans have a lifespan of 17 years or 12500 cycles @80% or 10 years, 7500 cycles @50%
This must be about total cost of ownership and Lead Acid is way better. Lithium batteries are also cylindrical so are not very good with A/H vs size. Two of my Trojans 6V have 600 A/H at 12V and the equivalent with Lithium in A/H over size are 5 times larger but the Lead Acid are way heavier
But the BMS can / will SEVERELY limit the Discharge Current from a Li-Ion Battery. In most cases, the Lead Acid battery will provide more Discharge amps.
Thanks for sharing! BMS systems can indeed limit the discharge / charge currents.
Great video, can speak to how calculate the number of batteries required for a off grid system. Thanks
Hello Mark, thanks for you message. It's good to hear you enjoyed the video. Great suggestion! I will upload a series on system calculations soon. All the best, Jesse.
How and why do we "balance" LA batteries? I have 18 AGM 100AH very high-quality batteries. I have them in series parallel (12 VDC X3 = 26 volt). I hear a million different ways I am supposed to wire them and charge them. What is the real way?
What I don't like about lead, is that you shouldn't go bellow 50% and that you shouldn't leave battery at that SoC for too long (LFP don't like that too but are less sensitive to it). And this is exactly what happens with Solar - you charge during day and discharge during night.
Other thing is, when sun shines for short time, charging lead from 80% to 100% is very ineffective and you may end up loosing lot of energy and end up with available discharge from 80% to 50%.
But looking at some new carbon Lead acid, with 15 years lifetime, 4000 cycles at 40% discharge ... it actually is 1/2 of the LFP price per discharged kWh.
Thanks for interesting input!
Trojan 12 Volt @ 472 Ah costs $1,100 and provides 3,600 CYCLES @ 50% DOD.
Battle Born 12 Volt @ 100 Ah costs $1,000 and provides 3,600 CYCLES at 100% DOD
Li-Ion still can not compete with Lead Acid ...
Thanks for all your contributions to the channel,
indeed Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries still require relatively high upfront investment.
Great video thanks very much. 🇬🇧
You are welcome!
Thank u giving us unknown information 🇵🇰
It's my pleasure
Sir, I am from Bangladesh,, how to make 24v 100AH battery for my Solar system. What type of battery is best for me Lithium ion or Lithium fosfet?
Thank you for a great video. Good information and very well structured. Do you think you can also cover something about the earthing system of an off-grid project? Is it really necessary to have a separate earthing point for your solar panels than the one of your house? The battery negative should be connected to an earthing system?
An excellent suggestion, thank you Mihai. I will most definitely make a separate video on this, and will I will let you know once it is online. It's also good to hear you enjoy the [structured] format of the videos, thanks for your feedback! All the best, Jesse.
Can you replace a lead acid battery in a UPS with a lithium battery of the same output?
Looking for a mixed solar panel calculator. I have not been able to find a calculator that allows me to enter different panels with different specs and then to compare the outputs, parallel vs series, to a single charge controller (1 array). I know how to calculate this on paper, just wish a spreadsheet expert would design this tool.
Great idea!
I have found, especially in my country South Africa, that the use of a Lead Acid "Continuous Monitoring System", is exceedingly rare. The main reason for this seems to be price. Do you have any information or statistics about the advantages of using a BMS system that measures each battery in a string and how the active management of these batteries can improve the life expectancy and performance of the batteries?
There does not seem to be much information from the BMS suppliers on the web.
Thanks for the great videos and information.
Regards, Geoff
How do these compare to heated water storage? 90% of our house energy use is for heating. I also miss recycling options. How to EV/LA compare in how good they can be turned into new batteries.
In an off-grid situation WEIGHT is not a big factor. It might be a factor for an an RV. And probably is a factor for a boat.
Thanks for your message. I agree with you that for most land-based off grid power systems, the weight of batteries is off lesser concern.
I am getting ovr temp battery alarm on an offgrid system
What happens to different types of batteries when their life ends? Which can be recycled & which end up in landfill 🤔
When you say lead acid batteries are you also including sealed AGM or gel style batteries in that?
Yes Sir!
Find your video today.. looks clear.. almost no one matters the bms which is needed for controlling each cell.. a lot of electronics, which also have to do the whole warranty time..
Also 80 % of the lithium battery,s are from china,, so sometimes the expected lifetime, capacity, will be on the high side, so compared to the best brand of lead battery,s in europe ( like hoppecke or bae ) this will be more stable and confident in stationairy systems.. Also the risk of fire..with lithium.. but with lead acid you need proper ventilation.. (with stationary not so difficult)
And if you have a larger capacity in your battery bank,, your soc can be easily more than 70 % which expands the lifetime substantially ..
Can you explain the "c" rating in life po4 batterys?
Hello Easyji, thank you for your excellent question. I will dedicate a single video on this, and let you know once it is online. All the best, Jesse.
@@SolarSolution thank you.
The C rating describes an amperage relative to the batterie's capacity. You can find C ratings with the number before and after the C. When the number is before the C, that means x times the capacity, for example you can discharge a 100Ah battery with a 3C rating with 300A. This variant is usually used to describe the maximum charge/discharge current. If the nuber is behind the C, that means capacity divided by x, for example if you would discharge that 100Ah battery with 5A, that would be at C20. This variant is often used to describe the effective capacity at different discharge rates for lead acid batteries.
hi Sir - great content as always and much appreciated. Please can you settle a discussion we are having - is it advisable to mix different brands of LiFePO4 batteries together?
Can I hook up 2 100watt panels in series (to satisfy 24v battery bank)and add 1 more in parallel (to get a few extra amps as well) ??? For a series/parallel system? I have tracer4215bn charge controller.( my system is : 2 - 12v 100ah batteries in series for 24v and 3 -100watt panels, 3000watt 24v inverter and tracer4215 bn) Thanks for sharing 🍸
Does anybody have an answer for 3 solar panels 2in series and then one connected in parallel
No, you would need 4 100-watt panels to do that. Panels in parallel have to have the same voltage, and panels in series have to have the same amperage.
Any chance you can do a comparison of Lithium and NiFe batteries?
Thank you for message and question: I think you have a valid and excellent question there, worth a separate video! I will let you know once I have shared it on the channel.
Thank you,
Jesse
@@SolarSolution On thinking about it it may be worth doing NiCd as well.
Thank you for the addition, I will add this in the same video as well.
Course trailer and Coupon Code: czcams.com/video/VKa_yBiu728/video.html
@Solar Solution .thanks for your information ... can you please clarify as to are the better "quality " lead acid batteries construction would be ...so that viewers can distinguish them in the market place .
He is sharp
Thanks Craig!
Wrong. Batteries stored in parallel fight.
That is an interesting piece of feedback. Would you care to further explain your perspective?
@@SolarSolution Maybe he means the internal resistance of two parallel battery,s which is slight different, so one of them "pulls" to the other.. in charge or discharge modus..