The RIGHT way to measure a Guitar Pickup - Vlog
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- In this video we look at the right way to measure a guitar pickup, Resistance, Capacitance, and Inductance
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You explain some pretty important concepts regarding pickups measurements and explain them to a complete beginner so that I grasp the concepts... Yep you rock 👍👍
Thank you, thank you, I was just trying to figure out what I need to measure inductance.. Yes you rock 👍👍
Yes! This is precisely the vlog I was hoping for!
Hey Dylan, love what you do and I learn a lot from your channel. Please excuse me, but I have to doubt your measurement readings:
Setting the meter to the 200nF (9:55) range and getting 29.3 on the screen should mean 29.3nF, and if you insist on converting this to pF then it's 29,300pF (nano = 10^-9, pico = 10^-12). Either way nowhere near your stated value of 2.9pF. Did I miss something?
Now, in general, pickups' capacitance ranges between 100-200pF [1], which means both values, measures & stated (29.3nF & 2.93pF respectively) are unlikely for a standard pickup.
(In addition, a twisted pair (cabling) adds a few more pF to that, if you really want to scrutinize over the smallest details)
Obviously, capacitance is important for a pickup's resonant peak (LC circuit - I'm simplifying, but please bare with me), and this property is affected by everything that the pickup "sees": pots, caps, guitar cable etc..
So, for 29.3nF, the resonant frequency is ~584Hz, while for 2.93pF it is ~58.5kHz. Both are unacceptable for a pickup, any pickup (usually ranges between 2-10kHz, depending on the pickup type and construction). If I assume resonant frequency = 7.5kHz (typical single coil pickup), then the capacitance is ~178pF (0.178nF), again neither the measured nor stated values of 29.3nF & 2.93pF respectively come close to.
Please consider the meter as unsuitable for a pickup's capacitance measurement (even if it has the desired range and seems able to do so. Range is only one factor). [2,3]
Of course, you already knew all this, but I had to point this out and if you can comment and clear some of this stuff that would be great.
I'm certainly not trying to disparage this video or any of your works! Just trying to get everything right.
Thank you for your time,
Dror
Useful links to back my arguments:
[1] www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
[2] guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8271/measuring-pickups-capacitance-lcr-meter
[3] guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8072/measuring-pickups-lcr-meters
Yes, this meter is not suitable for measuring capacitance of coils ie. with some resistance component. It's clearly stated in operation manual. Just it's the only meter showing at least some capacitance when connected to pickup leads. But it's not accurate reading and not suitable for any statements. That's weird because I have seen this cheap aliexpress multimeter in other pickup makers videos, for example Highline guitars.
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for demystifying pickups.There's enough magic in good ones as it is. 😎
Great explanation on pickups!
Hey man, 2020 had some lows but one of my highs was stumbling on a mentor to teach me electric guitar. I haven’t touched an electric guitar since I was 12 and only new the basics. My teacher is a 70s rocker and is super knowledgeable of all pickups and pots. I get lost sometimes understanding the basics on how these electronics work while he starts explaining all of the configurations. I have really appreciated your explanation of all the the electronics and demonstrating how they work and how to test them at home. I just ordered my first soldering iron and plan on having fun experimenting on my rig. I have subscribed and hit the bell! See you at your next video and thanks for the great content.
This is one of the two best informative videos I watched. I immediately ordered the LCR meter. I sat down with 8 of my guitars, that I'm familiar with the output level. I found the inductance level did reflect the output levels. The resistance does NOT. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
A set with a regular neck, a regular middle and a special bridge pickup with the baseplate and the coil tap would be the most bad ass alternative to any single-single-hum Superstrat. And a kit with just neck and bridge, both of them with baseplate and coil tap would be awesome too. I'd buy one of those kits. One of each of those kits.
This is interesting and I appreciate his desire to make measurements that matter. Unfortunately, he is using a tool that says it is measuring inductance and when he has it on it gives a number. That number is essentially meaningless (except maybe for comparative purposes) because these cheap LCR meters do not account for the frequency of the measurement or the type of circuit it is testing. You really need to plot Inductance vs frequency in the range you are interested in. Inductance of a guitar pickup varies hugely as a function of frequency. Reporting a single inductance number without talking about the frequency or applied current is really a poor way to characterize a pickup. A good strat guitar pickup should have an inductance of 3 - 5 H at 1kHz.
Are there any decent LCR meters that test inductance with variable frequency?
@@deanw8206 Yes. They are available, but they are not all that cheap. I use a laboratory HP LCR meter. There are handheld ones that have variable frequency capability. Search LCR meters and look for available frequency models. How good they are is another question. HP/Agilenet/Keysight are industry standard. The cheaper ones, who knows? Probably ok for comparative measurements, but if you want absolute values, it will cost you.
Exactly, this is pure bs in this video. He also doesn't even mention if that is measuring series or parallel inductance. Those two will be quite different.
This is the most clarity In detail without over complicated science which I do like, but I'm not there yet, so yeah this is encouraging in a way that makes me want to know more, and now knowing that inductance is a culmination of all the component values of a pickup is the most clarification I've had so far, I have just been looking at what the major suppliers put up on the specs as either 6.1k or 6.9 or whatever without letting us know that there's more to it like permeability of the materials like the magnetic poles and how that affects the inductance and ouput and there's more- how the pickups plus the wiring loom setup Inc caps and configuration of everything as a whole right up to the jack and the ts cables, basically everything has an effect on how the guitar will interact with the amp you're using, so I was thinking back to the drawing board but now knowing I can get the information I need to make the guitar end right for the amp I have, for the range of tones I want to hear so I can not just be frustrated after forking out 100s on what I think is good defined by cost, and a little amount of information
Instead there's a way that even back in the 50s they had already figured out what's what and designed everything including the pickups, guitar wiring etc and amp innards, all in one to work together in the best possible way, thank God for Nicola Tesla that's what I say, of course Dylan thank you for all the time, and energy put into being the best at what you're interests draw you to. We need more folks like you who relentlessly dig deep and invest yourself in the math, the science and the kindness of sharing this with us all who want to know the truth, instead of being ripped off because of our ignorance well I can speak for myself on that, I was wondering about a set of pickups that have alinco 3 magnetic poles and how they were pretty good but you know how marketing can be for lack if a better word "photos hopped" in terms of tone using daws and plugins to edit the sound that isn't given the real justice via a mixed down format for media platforms, there's a lot of that going on, it's one reason other than the pure interest I have in guitars and amps and how they work, that keeps me on the real important topics.
There's too much to cover I could go on but most folks havnt the patience to read more, everyone wants it all and they want it now! Instant gratification, without trying to sound condescending I mean. In depth is good, shallow- well its not thar simple. It's mathematical equations but it would be great to read the specs of a pickup that had all the info, big companies have enough to pay someone to type it up once on each pick up it's not like we're still using the enigma machine
excellent. for how many years did we all react to the manufacturers resistance values as the volume/power values. eeesh! Nowadays I also shop inductance and thanks to you I learned even more. Im getting out my electronics station and ordering some magnets, right now. (I have a bunch of pickups leftover from my days building guitars and amps.) always good to see you.. thanks!
Well correct, actually it's the higher inductance that cuts highs, ( inductors & capacitors are used to build crossovers for speakers), and resistors. but by winding on more wire you get a larger inductor but also higher resistance. Problem is most people don't understand how electricity works so it makes it tough to truly understand how res., cap., and induc., AND magnet all work together. Res. can tell length of wire ( assuming same wire size and type ) but by winding diff size and shape coil can create diff inductance. 3pf is basically no cap. A 3 pf cap across the hot to grd could not be detected by human hearing. gotta get closer to 100pf to definately notice. Could be lower but 100 for sure.
I don’t get how inductance and that multimeter work (the settings), but I appreciate that you tried to share all that info
Nice video, with one caveat. I have that same LCR meter (Proster). The capacitance measurement is ok for capacitors but is pretty useless for coils because the test frequency is too low, nor is it adjustable. Dylan mentions capacitances in the range of 2.9 pf for a strat pickup when measured with this instrument. The actual value for strat coils is typically over 100 pf. A meter that is capable of measuring capacitances of coils is in the several hundred dollar range, and has a variety of test frequencies. If the coil capacitance really were 2.9 pf, it would not be a significant measurement because the typical guitar cable capacitance is much larger, in the range of 400 pf.
Really interesting. I'd really be interested to see how these things interplay in a sort of problem/solution approach. For example, starting with a dark pickup, and then (I have no idea what I'm talking about) adding magnetic field or more windings, trying the next possible adjustment, seeing how each adjustment effects the resulting sound, and talking about why you'd pick one solution over the other.
I recently found out that the strat front pick-up sound I had in my head was in fact a front pick-up of a telecaster,,,I would definitely buy a Tele pickup that fits a strat. Great video, I'm going to have to watch it a few more times.
Hi. Thanks for the video. I subscribed recently :). Only one small issue: 24.1nF = 24100 pF (not 2.4pF - this would be close to nothing).
Great video Dylan. I have a multimeter and will check the inductance. I have often wondered why my TV Jones filtertrons pickups with low resistance are loud compared to some PAFs I have with higher resistance.
I think strats with baseplates on the bridge pickup would be great! But then, I am a Tele guy. Haha.
So good Dylan, that's why I like your videos, you aren't doble face like some other CZcamsrs with their reviews,
So to make it clear, lower C, lower Ohms, high Henrys for crystal clear tone (like 80s chorus, or Kiko Cibrián, or Paul Jackson jr)
and the opposite (higher C, higher Ohms, lower henries for muddy , hot mostly humbuckers????
I had a strat once that had basplates on the single coil pickups and i thought they were great sounding had more power for a better lack of a word.
The Proster LCR meter is not well regarded for pickup inductance and capacitance measurement because of test frequency limitations, which affects the measured values. The DE-5000 and the Hantek 1833C are the preferred instruments. They are a little more expensive but not much. See guitarnuts pickup testing forum.
The Test frequencies used on the DE-5000 and Hantek 1833C are from 20Hz to 20Khz? plus the DE-5000 has the parallel LCR and series LCR which is from the winding capacitance. I'm trying to wind a strat pickup that is very glassy, any hints to make pickups very glassy?
Well, that was awesome.
I like the idea of a strat pickup with a baseplate.
Me too
I enjoy your videos, but you've got it backwards: Yes, more resistance reduces power (voltage) output as well as reducing the high frequencies & the high resonant peak. (...luckily, the increased winds, that boost resistance, bring more output than is lost because of that resistance).
But, when it comes to capacitance, it is a case of cutting bass & midrange, more or less depending upon amount of capacitance...not cutting or increasing the highs. Capacitance acts as a high pass filter and when the cutoff level is high, the same amount of "highs" sound like they're increased...but actually that is because the lows were cut...ie: the ratio of highs to lows is greater...and vice versa.
As you yourself have mentioned, except with active (preamp) circuitry, passive components can't add what is not there to start with, only cut it.
On the other hand, the "grease bucket" circuitry does cut highs, while increasing the resonant peak of the "presence" bands (between mids & highs) which people hear as a "midrange boost", giving a fuller, richer but also perceptively bright tone...without screeching trebles.
I hope I was clear with this explanation!
Hi,
Great Videos! I checked all of them and have learnt alot as winding is my new passion ;)
I have a question, how do you know what value of capacitance is good for the pickup (I mean how to judge it is it high or low). I have proster multimeter and it shows 0.007μF for my humbucker, can it be true? I checked Seymour Duncan SH-5, and got 0.01μF. Is that mean my pickup is more "scattered" and might have a little bit more rich "highs" as capacitance seems lower?
I would appreciate your response.
Best,
Szymon
i run a base plate on the bridge pickup of my strat and i dont think i will ever go without one. on the bridge at least
can you make a video on how to test polarity on an SPB-3 seymour duncan quater pounder?
You should probably be aware that your LCR meter is reading a negative capacitance -- which is the meter's way of telling you that you're in the wrong mode. If you want to measure the parallel capacitance of an inductor, you'll need a more sophisticated setup. This also makes me question your theory on hand- vs machine-winding a great deal, since you were never measuring the thing you were trying to...
Correct, and most cheap meters also use low frequency for capacitance measurement, which results in completely wrong readings.
Yes you are correct. The readings he is getting can not be correct. They should be in the region of 100pf for a strat pickup, yet the readings he gets is in the negative nf range. There are some lcr testers like the de-5000 that aren’t expensive that test at a high frequency.
Nice
I'm a firm believer in quantification, but many people think you can't quantify tone quality. So I'm hoping you will find a nasty sounding pickup, and compare with an excellent sounding pickup. First, using quantification, then maybe a sound comparison. Can we prove that quantification is useful in comparing pickups?
That's simply because pickup manufacturers refuse to publish full frequency analyses of their pickups. Like speaker and microphone manufacturers do. People have learned to correlate those data with what they hear. They could do the same for pickups, but they have never been given that opportunity. So how could they know that you can't quantify pickup tone ? The more pickup builders like Dylan start doing these analyses (adding full frequency spectra) along with sound files, the more normal it will become. Currently there is a market opportunity for a builder to take up that mantle.
+@@vw9659
You let a marketer mess with your head --- the pickup simplest construction, just a bunch of wires and a magnet --- nothing magical. Every sound has its admirer.
Check out CBG-community videos.
Base plates seem to work well in strat bridge pickups
I think what Dylan is trying to say is "resistance is futile..."
+Bobby U
Almost everything in this video is futile -- Inductance, resistanse,capacitance, e.t.c.
(no offense to the author).
In pickups, mostly two things are important - the number of turns and the strength of the magnet.
Knowing the gauge of the wire and the resistance - an experienced researcher can estimate the number of turns.
i have read that to measure a pickup's intrinsic capacitances an lcr meter needs to measure it at 100kh. the reason for measuring at 100kh is because a pickup has complete electrical continuity unlike a capacitor. is this idea accurate
? is intrinsic capacitances needed to compare pickups? love your channel. you're one of the reasons I started building/moding/repairing guitars and building pickups.
It is true and it should be measured in parallel mode. If you measure the pickups with low frequency meter your reading will be few hundred times higher than it really is. And the opposite, low frequency should be used for inductance measurements.
Do the pickups have to be out of the guitar in order to measure the resistance? Can I just plug in a 1/4” cable and measure from tip/ring? I’m still trying to understand how one measures ‘power’ (what we ultimately hear)
You can download FREE magnetometers for Iphones or Android
Tele-pickup in strat on bridge - is definetly way to go
100% on the LCR metering.
Does the volume and tone pot have an affect on these measurements?
Baseplate. Yes. My knock-around, pawnshop, strat for the sake of strat Squier is getting new pickups and guts this year. A DTT mod project?
I would consider changing my MFD pickups for that
Yes
Strat pickups with metal baseplates
Getting closer to Tele bridge pickup sound without need for funny drilling
And that is why tele bridge pups have a lot of output 🤔
"Honestly, it's just junk..." I love that. :)
Was Leslie's pickup ever sold or installed in a guitar?
YUUP!
You're on a metal table? While aluminum isn't magnetic, but is conductive, you can induce a magnetic field in it with a magnet/electromagnet. I think I'd be on a non-conductive table.
Doesn’t matter.
Much of what is showed in the video doesn't belong to "the right way to measure a guitar pickup".
There are useful informations, but to get all well and accurate measured the matter is quite more complicated.
Tesla Meter, same one as shown, $120 on Amazon, $90 on ebay.
The Stellar X2 is bad to the bone. The Vintage version should also be great.