Apple vs Qualcomm - Friends or Enemies?
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Apple and Qualcomm are two giants of the tech industry. There are many markets where they don't compete, some markets where they are partners, and some markets where they compete. Are they friends or enemies? Let's find out.
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Twitter: / garyexplains
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#garyexplains - Věda a technologie
They are neither friends nor enemies, instead, they are friends with benefits LOL
But Apple always wins even if it loses some benchmark battles !!!! Since Apple is always a step above Android in being a premium product says it all 😎
I was going to say reluctant allies. Apple needs them, at least for now. And Qualcomm is willing to take Apple's money. Apple has tried making their own 5g modems but has not yet been successful according to all reports even after buying Intel's modem division.
@@mattbosley3531 Apple's modem would be coming in iphone 17 and apple gets parts from lots of companies and doesn't mean that they're reliant on them . Qualcomm is just apple's ripoff trying to replicate arm processors similar to apple silicon that to by poaching their former employees .
If Windows made a decent operating system like Apple then Win Arm would be much more popular. The current Windows ecosystem feels like it's trying to sell me something all the time.
Your clock speed comparisons and efficiency per clock aren’t correct, because the ST results on the X Elite (80 and 84 skus) are based on a boosted (+400Mhz) clock speed, not the base clock speed.
Battle of the IT brains ..
Yeah, the video's numbers are definitely *very* wrong. Here is the actual data for 1T perf (GB6.2 pts) / 1T frequency (GHz)
Arm Cortex-X4: 68 Pts / GHz
X Elite: 71 Pts / GHz
M1: 75 Pts / GHz
M2: 76 Pts / GHz
M3: 77 Pts / GHz
M4: 84 Pts/ GHz
I'm rooting for Mediatek to be the underdog that gives balance to the market
Something that's very interesting with the Qualcomm vs Apple is that the SD X Elite and X Pro processors have zero efficiency cores while M3/M4 series of processors tend to have more efficiency cores than performance cores. It's seems to be more apt to compare the X Pro processors (once products based on it become available) with the base M processors and the X Elite processors against the M Pro/Max processors.
That said, I had been using an M1 Max MBP since launch and have recently migrated to a Framework Laptop 16 running Linux. I don't want to touch Windows, especially after they started jacking with Windows 10 and shoving AI stuff with Windows 11. I do look forward to SD X Elite laptops and desktops that can run Linux though!
Yeah, as of now my concern with arm laptop.. is locked bios/ bootloader . Cannot boot other OS wut they come with.
@@SyrFlora Qualcomm said that they would contribute to the Linux kernel and provide tools to get Linux running on the laptops; but, like you, I have concerns with firmware and bootloader, as well as what the support lifecycle would be after they move on to the next generation of processors.
At least with Apple Silicon, the Asahi Linux project has been amazing to watch them make such great progress. I'm looking forward to trying it out on my M1 Max MBP in the near future.
I always love my freedom to choose. To say it differently: if the walls get too high no matter how beautiful the garden may seem, I feel locked up. So, with Qualcomm (or AMD and Intel) I feel comfortable.
Fair to say mate , but the walled garden does have some benefits , just like pc/android has some benefits , in the end it is whatever makes you happy .
For me , I do like the way apple gear for the most part does work very well with its other apple gear , even though like everything it is not perfect.
For example I can have my iPhone in my bedroom charging , and my iPad in the kitchen, my MacBook in the lounge , if I get a phone call on my phone , I can answer it seamlessly on either the iPad or the MacBook , that’s just one example , it’s a small thing , but Apple does seem to make the extra effort to have these nice little touches , to be sure there are some things I’d like to see improved on , but generally I’m happy with my Apple gear.
And one other thing I just thought of , you can run chrome (which I also do )on apple stuff , so in some ways it is really not that walled in .
Having 2 or 3 options isn't free ether, specially because you cannot upgrade a notebook between these 3. So you buy one of the 3 and just change, when buy a new computer. If decide to have a ARM pc, there's no choice if not going with Qualcomm. I think this view is a false illusion of liberty. The other upgrades that pc usually allow like ram and storage I think are more representative os freedom
@@pessoinha56
One option regarding the software is poverty. Combine that with being at the mercy of one supplier for the hardware because otherwise the functionality is affected, that is dictatorship. As I said, I love my freedom. Dictatorship is a bad thing. Especially when the dictator locks you up in his walled garden where the walls are so high that no one can ever escape it.
@@mikldude9376 Sure, for you. Not for me. I will never own an Apple product. Because it limits my freedom to choose.
@@hermanstokbrood i think getting paranoid with the freedom is not good either, you focus too much in having thousands options instead of focusing in the options that get your needs going. Having all the freedom in the world is an ideology
Point of order: Qualcomm supplies a “Snapdragon” SoC to System manufacturers. The use of the “A” word in a sentence containing Qualcomm is expressly prohibited while the courts consider the … umm … licensing discussions with the “A” company. 😂😉
Frenimies?
When you think about it, apple is competing with multiple companies with their products
Like say macbook (apple silicon) vs lenovo/windows/samsung/intel/broadcomm (depending on configuration) yet they are in the top 3 most succesvol companies, showing integration is king
Yet macos only has 25% of desktop marketshare showing ecosystem is king........
Looking forward to see SD 8 Gen 4 as that would be around time I plan to get a new phone sometimes next year or so.
Well explained, thankyou
Glad it was helpful!
Apple can spite Qualcomm by allowing native BootCamp (Windows) on Apple M-Series chips! 😊
That will happen only in your thoughts 😊
lol the x elite goes up to 4.2 to get 2800+ it should go to 4.2 ghz ao i dont really get ur graph @8:05
Mediatek 9200u price matters
I am expecting more competition in the ARM laptop CPU race. Wonder when Intel and AMD will join, as Windows on ARM will be a mature platform x86 support will be unnecessary.
Another good one Gary. I discovered I was no longer subscribed. I don't know how that happened but I am again now. When at DEC and subsequently I was a Windows user. The ex DEC engineer Dave Cutler did a great job on NT and Windows 2000 but I found Windows went down hill after that and switched to MAC. Never looked back. I love the way my current, M1 MAC mini, iPad mini 6 and iPhone 15 integrate with iCloud.
I like your comparison chart between relative performance and clock speed, however I am missing performance per watt comparison as well. Maybe u should add more metrics to consider as described in the end of the vid. Still thx for the vid, great job Gary!
Awesome video ❤
Glad you liked it
i'm definitely not a closed garden fan. having said that, many apple products have an enviably longer support life. did Gary ever finish the new Surface laptop review, i would like to know how compatible the emulator were.
Lose that lame meme of walled garden. It dates back to the 1990s and it was Microsoft dissing Apple back then. The real story (by the way it's 2024 now) is Apple is the only integrated company and the rest of the industry is modular. Samsung/Oppo/Xiaomi don't use their own OS nor do they design their own processors, they just use someone else's. Apple does apps, services, SOCs, SIPs, OSes in other words all the strategic needs of the company.
The problem with being modular is a company like Samsung can come out with a phone and every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the Android world can do the exact same stuff. Nothing different, same old, same old. That leads to race to the bottom in terms of price and very poor margins on their products.
Apple does everything differently, better integration, best stores on the planet, much larger customer base, huge R&D budget which makes them far more innovative. With the strongest customer base the millions of outside companies that plug into the Apple ecosystem pay way more attention to Apple and ignore Android and Windows. The other guys can't compete with them. Small profits at Samsung equals no unique innovation, low margins, miniscule R&D budgets.
I’m fully diversified in my use of technology, but I’m watching with great interest. I was using ARM back in the days of the Acorn A310 until Acorn went belly up, and back then I thought it beautiful in most, but not _all_ ways.
Back then they were doing 26 bit addressing.
I prefer whatever I can actually own, i.e. can run whatever OS I like, install whatever apps I like, repair and replace parts that experience wearing (SSDs, for example). Thus, Apple is out of the question, and probably Qualcomm-based laptops will be as well (as there are some reports of these laptops having locked bootloader, so no Linux).
But if we're only comparing CPUs, I'd like to see a performance per watt comparison. Apple's ARM chips have good performance per watt ("work" done per watt-hour) and absolute performance ("work" done per second). Qualcomm CPUs seem quite up there regarding absolute performance but not sure about power efficiency.
informative!
I am just waiting for Samsung and Mediatek to enter the Laptop CPU market. Qualcomm's exclusive deal is ending by the end of this year
Judging by the Geekbench scores, Qualcomm and Apple are pretty much head to head when it comes to raw numbers. Love the competition, this is beneficial to consumers
In raw numbers..? The M4 single core score is 3800, the X Elite 2700.. X Elite only have 3x more power cores to get closer in multi core score (which is basically irrelevant, 99,9% of the apps are sigle core apps..)
Becaude they used almost the same amount of cores like the M1 Ultra (16 power cores), they are competitive with the 4 power cores, but that doesn't mean they are equal in numbers.. just ask yourself, how they can provide stronger version of that chip, if they already needed almost the same amount of power cores what you can find in M1 Ultra?
@@TamasKiss-yk4st You are literally comparing a 4gen product to a 1gen one. The simple fact that SDE is even comparable to Mx chips is a huge achievement. Let's see in a couple of generations which one is better...
@@raminatoxNot that amazing, considering the guys who designed the M1 cores are the same people to left to start Nuvia, and designed the cores in the SD X Plus/Elite. What’s actually most amazing is their performance per clock has not kept up with what Apple has managed to do with the M2/M3/M4. Yes, Apple had the advantage of lots of money to throw at it, but so does Qualcomm. I mean, they paid ~$1.4B (USD) for Nuvia, and as Gary showed in the video, they’re making about $9B/yr.
The SD X Plus/Elite are impressive, especially for a first release. Huge improvement over prior non-Apple ARM chips, to be sure. Good to see the competition, and their energy efficiency and IPC numbers are good, but they’re going to have to improve on both because Apple and AMD have chips that push those limits, and while Intel’s new Lunar Lake chips aren’t pushing the performance (for laptop chips), they are finally getting pretty power efficient, so they’re not “out of the game”. Apple is clearly leading the charge here, for performance, IPC, and power efficiency, but the competition is getting close on all except IPC.
I have no real preference, I am more involved into the Apple ECO system so to keep it fresh I got a Surface Laptop 7 15". I don't believe in putting all my eggs in one basket. My 11" iPad Pro does a great job for my note-taking, and the laptop is great for consuming media and doing research and writing papers. For work, I am blessed with a 16" M1, so really I got everything I need.
I gel better with Apple's accessibility features and hearing aid integration. Competition is good. It keeps Apple honest.
You presented a very interesting performance comparison, but if we’re talking about these two companies, they are definitely enemies. Apple was suing with Qualcomm and not so long ago they bought Intel mobile modem patents for phones in order to in house develop their own modem for iPhone. As I know, Qualcomm integrates their modems into their SoC, which has efficiency advantages, while Apple isn’t, because they buy them from Qualcomm, that is why iPhone wireless communication generally sucks, especially with that generation they tried to use Intel modems.
They're both respected in their own right.
Been using android since the note 2 , but in the last nearly 4 years I have added apple stuff to my gear , still have a PC and a couple of android phones , but also have a couple of iPhones , an iPad and a MacBook Pro M1 (16 GB), Some years ago if you suggested I use apple stuff , you may have gotten a rather rude comment back , but these days I like the way apple is doing their hardware , and apple software , I initially disliked immensely, but it has grown on me , and it is improving I think , I carry an iPhone these days , also have a pixel 8 pro as a second phone , I certainly wouldn’t be offended if the pixel had a snapdragon gen 3 in it 😊.
Totally agree on your take on choosing the ecosystem that serves oneself, along with some personal preferences for devices! It is possible Apple move into ARM has helped Qualcomm getting more visibility of this architecture as the main vendor. I think end uses benefit of some advances such as longer battery life. It might have helped Microsoft accelerate Windows on ARM which is key to develop this market, I think, and hopefully Intel and AMD can join it so we have more innovation as they compete on computer refreshes. Not easy do to, but let's see what they come up next few years.
like somethings from each company.
switched from windows to Mac about 10 years ago, and would rather do labor job before going back to a windows machine
In terms of laptop chip performance per clock SD X Elite vs M4. Of course, I mean chief architect of M1 at Apple (Gerald Williams) before he left, is literally the founder of Nuvia and now the head of SoC design at Qualcomm, so IPC parity shouldn't be that surprising.
Apple all day !!! no matter what it is m1 or m4 or even m5, m6 in future we simply buy apple as its a premium device and is a better os than windows in terms of UI so doesn't matter even if qualcomm releases some terminator level chip we still get apple 😉
@@sameersheriff7078 I mean, there's Linux support for SD X Elite...
@@LogioTek Cool !!!🙂
What happen to Apple’s 5G modem they bought from Intel? Is Apple still working on it or gave up like the car?
All is business my friend, there are no friends or enemies in business.
Apple SC is still unmatched,
I guess they don’t really like each other. They had issues regarding licensing when Apple tried to develop their in-house modem. Then Qualcomm bought Nuvia which was founded by former Apple workers. So I would say there should be a lot of tension there. But business is business and Apple still depends on Qualcomm modem tech, so they have to cooperate…
Android phones (Google PixelXX), Mac notebook.
Both companies have been suing each other for years over royalty payments and patent infringement. These court cases had tens of billions of dollars at stake and were widely covered in tech and business press yet this video makes no mention of it.
ARM vs Qualcomm - Friends or Enemies video next!!!
I have been a long-term fan of Apple, especially with regards to their hardware. But recently, their operating systems are starting to lose ground with the competition. iPad OS is big disappointment as it misses key pieces of functionality that would make it desktop class. Mac OS UI is beginning to feel archaic because in lacks touch display and stylus support. I've become a fan of Windows 11 arm having experimented with using a Windows Dev Kit 2023 daily for the past 15 months and seen a lot of improvements with the OS culminating with 24H2 update. I plan to replace my 12.9-inch M1 iPad Pro and magic keyboard with a Microsoft Surface Pro 11 Snapdragon X Elite when 5G models become available later this year. In the interim, I will upgrade my Windows Dev Kit to a Qualcomm Snapdragon Dev Kit for Windows 2024 with top sku X Elite when they become available to purchase in the next few weeks.
Couple actually.
GARY !
Why do people keep bringing up the difference in number of cores as if all cores are created equal
Or you pay whit your data, no privacy for windows or Android
Unless you are connected to Internet.... Otherwise forget about privacy
Frenemies.
Qualcomm ❤❤
Got a question, do the new arm laptops have a locked bootloader? I don't care for Apple laptops, I avoid buying apple products
Mediatek looking from a side and mocking...
Really? I don't see that myself.
Snapdragon X Elite ❤️❤️💪✅
I prefer Apple's CPUs. 2024 is already a good year. 👍
I prefer none.
You should have mentioned that Qualcomm bought in 2019 a company called NUVIA. It was founded by CPU engineers from Apple. So Qualcomm basically bought for 1,4 billion dollar the Apple silicon technology.
I guess I should have mentioned that, you are right, but I have covered that so many times in my videos that I didn't think it needed saying any more, but in hindsight you are right.
No money to buy new devices yet
Do you think apple will start building their own cellular Modems?
Apple bought Intel modem business 5 years ago. Maybe Gary knows why they are still using Qualcomm’s? Marriage of convenience?
It's not that easy.... Apple has been trying hard but they can't... Money will get you so far....
You forgot to mention Microsoft.lol
Eh?
@@GaryExplains Microsoft was the most valuable company when Nvidia displaced apple from second position to third position. Instead of calling some oil and gas companies, it would have been right to mention that Microsoft is/ was the most valuable company
True. To be honest that is such a recent thing that it hasn't really registered permanently in my brain 🧠 My bad.
Frenimies 😂
Seeing a lot of disappointment this week about real-world performance from the new Qualcomm chips. Apparently the GPU is terrible.
Well, the Adreno GPU they are using is just an overclocked version of the SD 8 Gen 2, which is a mobile chip. For a mobile chip, the GPU is great, but for a laptop GPU, it's pretty bad. (23,000 OpenCL Geekbench scores).
Lol so falls all over himself to try to make Snapdragon look competitive on CPU (where it barely scrapes and with tons of caveats), meantime on GPU we're seeing now that this thing is finally out, and at a time where GPU matters _much_ more, AAPL is still smacking down in some cases as much as 5x! And the worst thing is that Snapdragon is also a complete hound on compute vs Intel and AMD. I call Snapdragon launch a 6 out of 10 when QCOM were promising for two years we'd have an 11.
I´m an Apple fan, but now have a Pixel 7 Pro + MBP M1 Pro.
When my Mac reaches it´s end, there maybe great reasons to look for a Windows PC now that Elite X shows great promise 😁
Apple all day buddy greatness wont be matched by competition anytime soon as we never bought apple for its performance numbers or benchmarks but rather for what it is which is premium device and I feel its enough said !!!
@@sameersheriff7078😂😂😂😂 lol iSheep
@@sameersheriff7078isheep detected 😂
@@denischiosa4496 Call me sheep but you're the ones who's gonna weep once your android or windows shit device starts actin'up !!!
@@nothing9220 salty ??! for not able to afford one
Windows and Android are more friendly and truthful than Apple. Windows and Android are more compatible with each other and just not with Apple. so can I just say nevah Apple!
prefer Apple , wonder if they'll do something with RISC-V
I doubt it. See my video Apple Won't Be Using RISC-V For The Foreseeable Future - Signs Long Term Deal With Arm -
czcams.com/video/3DNm1Qk7o-A/video.html
Apple it is and always will be no debate !!! don't care about overrated benchmarks as apple always delivers and you'll know if you've used apple products before !!!
@@sameersheriff7078 iSheeps... You are commenting on every comment even when it's not about choosing. I pity you
@@nothing9220 @nothing9220 comparing apple to andriod is like comparing gold to silver no matter how much it shines silver isnt more valuable than gold !!! You don't have to pity me if you can't afford to get one 🤫
Once again the same error over and over.
The Apple M3 is faster than SD X Elite and more efficient.
On synthetic benchmarks it uses only 4 power cores vs 10 of the X Elite. 😂
Once again the same error over and over. On synthetic benchmarks it uses all of the cores regardless of their designation.
Why doesn't Apple ship a CPU with only power cores if it is so efficient?
@@GaryExplains nope. By design Apple's cpu uses ider efficiency or performance core and can't use them all at the same time.
They won't be happy to kill the competition in one go because will ruin their business model overtime. They like to be one step ahead all time laughing at people talking bs about them. Mediatek has a soc made of all performance cores that does well still comparable, kind of, to Apple 4 core soc. yet again Apple does the software as well.
They are at least 10 years ahead of the competition.
Dude, this statement: "By design Apple's cpu uses ider efficiency or performance core and can't use them all at the same time" is simply not true. It was true of the A10 fusion back in 2016. However the A11 (and very processor after) can and does use all cores simultaneously. Your information is 10 years out of date.
Apple dominates guys dont care much about useless benchmarks whatsoever
Let us not forget that Qualcomm has been behind Apple for many years, and only recently have they managed to close the gap:
1/ In the mobile market, Qualcomm copied Apple by ditching the cheap option of using more affordable, inferior Samsung fabs and moving to TSMC. Apple ditched Samsung a decade ago and entered into a partnership by investing in TSMC.
2/ Qualcomm had about ten years of making slow and disappointing PC chips and could not work out how to challenge Apple, so:
A/ they poached Apple engineers to skip over their inability.
B/ They used ARM specifications that ARM claimed they did not have the legal rights to use (*1).
*1 The legal case starts in September and is expected to finish in December. Suppose ARM wins, and they probably will to some degree, and the worst-case scenario for Qualcomm befalls them. In that case, ARM has Qualcomm over a barrel and could, in theory, destroy the Snapdragon X. Of course, it is subject to appeals & an eventual settlement by Qualcomm to save face.
Conclusion: What Apple has done is significantly above Qualcomm, but thankfully, Qualcomm did the right thing and copied Apple rather than ploughing on as a second-rate chip designer. Much like Samsung did by copying the iPhone, both learnt from Microsoft's multi-billion dollar decision to laugh at iPhones and iPads instead of understanding the upcoming game-changing revolution of those devices.
You presented a very interesting performance comparison, but if we’re talking about these two companies, they are definitely enemies. Apple was suing with Qualcomm and not so long ago they bought Intel mobile modem patents for phones in order to in house develop their own modem for iPhone. As I know, Qualcomm integrates their modems into their SoC, which has efficiency advantages, while Apple isn’t, because they buy them from Qualcomm, that is why iPhone wireless communication generally sucks, especially with that generation they tried to use Intel modems.