Understanding Pre And Post Fader Sends
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
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I was working last week and I was changing a mix from post-fader to pre-fader, and I thought that might be a nice skill to share with you
Pre-fader and post-fader sends to mixes or auxes is a super important part of mixing, if you don’t know how to switch between them then you run the risk of running into a difficult situation.
If you’re not really comfortable switching between pre and post-fader sends, or just wonder how I think about them, then this video is for you.
In this video, we’ll take a look at:
The difference between the two and examples of where you might use them
We’ll have a walkthrough on a Midas M32 and I’ll show you how you change them on that mixer.
00:00 Christmas Sale
00:15 Introduction
00:55 How faders work on a mixer
02:20 What are pre and post fader sends?
05:09 Basic pre and post fader example
07:18 How to set pre and post fader sends on m32/x32
11:52 When to use pre or post fader sends
You videos are so good, you have no idea how much I have learnt from them. Could you please do a video on understanding routing or a series from a clean setup to subgroup and matrixes etc. I'm struggling to understand how to setup a mix with my buses and whether my subgroup should go to my buses, so confusing right now
You sir, are an absolute legend! Thank you for that explanation.
You're very welcome!
Excellent. Most articles or videos on this miss the crucial fact - the pre-fader signal comes from directly the pre-amp and is independent of the channel fader of the channel you are wanting to affect. You made that point very clearly and it certainly cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had - largely drawn from other sources attempting to shed light on this subject.!
Awesome! Glad it was helpful!
Honestly thank you now i understand a little I just need to watch the vid again. Your explanation is way more explicit than many vids I have seen.
Thank you
So Glad it helped!
Hi Andrew, your videos and logical explanation are truly helpful! I now work with better confidence, thanks!
Great to hear! Thanks for the comment.
I mix sound from stage for my band and for my solo acoustic shows.
For the band, all aux mixes are pre-fader. Changes to any individual channel level are not significant enough for effects levels to pose a problem. However, if I did opt for post-fader auxes, volume increases to my monitor wedge from ANY adjustments to main channel faders would DEFINITELY cause a problem.
For my solo shows, I DO use a post-fader aux setting.
Why? Because I can't walk out front of FOH speakers while performing to hear the mix as I can with my band. For one thing, my acoustic guitar would most likely go into howling feedback. Plus, without my vocal I can only evaluate half the mix.
So I opt for sending the FOH mix to my monitor wedge so I can hear the same thing the audience is hearing.
I use a pair of QSC K10.2 powered speakers. One is on a stand for FOH. The other is my wedge.
I set all in-use aux 1 channel sends to unity and switch aux 1 to post-fader. And, of course, I adjust the aux 1 master fader to a much lower volume than FOH.
This way, I can mix FOH and my monitor simultaneously.
I do carry a dual 31 band EQ in case I encounter a stage prone to feedback-causing resonant frequencies I can't control with volume management.
So far, though, I havn't needed it.
Hallelujah! Pre fader sends to IEM monitors? Yes please! I have worked both as a performer on stage and as the FOH mix engineer depending on need. When working FOH mix my job is to serve the musicians first, audience second. It is critical to get the IEM mix right during sound check so the musicians can all hear each other for cues and inspiration. Once this is handled, then I need to lock it in and work on the FOH mix.
The simplest way to do this is to use pre fader sends to the IEMs on all channels. I will also usually run a parallel channel for vocalists that is post EQ and FX so they can get that juicy goodness in their ears as well as a dry signal. Then they can mix their vocal channels as they wish.
Now I am free to dial in the FOH EQ, FX, compression, and work the fader levels without screwing up the musicians IEMs which might cause missed cues or simply suck the inspiration out of the room because they can no longer hear each other well. It’s a pretty big deal and if you ever want to work with a band twice, make sure they have good, constant, unwavering mix in their IEMs. Pre fader monitor sends for the win!
Brilliant, unpretentious logical and takes his time to guide you through rather than hammer you to death with technology
Ah you're too kind. Thank you
I am trying to learn more about sound boards, as I run the orchestral tracks for our high school musical. One of the ongoing issues over the years is my need to have the monitors separate from the house. When the whole group is singing, and especially when they are tap dancing, I need to be able to turn up the monitors so that they can hear on stage. The house is small, so to compensate (and so not to blow the audience out of their seats) I then need to be able to turn the house down. Does that mean that I need the sound going out to the monitors to be post-fader, on a different channel than the main house? How would you recommend setting that up? I think my main problem is I don't know the vocabulary well, so it's hard to communicate what I want.
Great question! Short answer: use a pre fader send. Long answer: when you connect a mic to a channel you use the gain dial to increase the volume to a level that the mixer is comfortable working at. Now when you turn up the fader, that channel goes to the master, then to the speakers. This is you setting a mix for the audience. Now if you use a pre fader send, you send a copy of the signal to another bus, basically another master, which then goes to the stage monitor. Because it's prefader it is complete independent of the mix you set for the audience. It even has its own master fader (the bus master). So you can use pre fader sends to build a mix for the stage. If you turn the main (audience) mix or master fader down, then the monitors will still have sound because we took a copy of the signal before the main fader (pre fader). So the main mix doesn't affect them. Hope that made sense and helped.
Great vid Andrew and have subscribed for all info on your mint channel, but i am going to have to watch it a zillions times before i "get it" this is the subject i seem to struggle with lol, i have aTF3 mixer and waiting for my NY64-D network card to work with my new Dante digital stage box, digital audio is the way to go
I'm glad it was helpful! I know we don't master these things over night. Hopefully it's a good reference and helps you on your journey. I've got a few videos on Dante as well where I use a Yamaha mixer. Unfortunately not a tf 3 but it they might help a little.
At the last event, I encountered exactly this. aux is directed to the recorder, post fader. as a result, the mix is spoiled. Thanks for the clear explanation
Glad it was helpful! Hope your recording survived.
Is there a way to change the pre or post fader setting on mix busses using X32-edit, or does it have to be on the console?
Yeah, just click sends at the top of the screen and you'll see it. Ther's an icon on the left to make the change across the whole bus or just the channel you have selected
Can you make some channels post fader and some pre fader when sending to a mix BUS? Or do all channels sent to a BUS need to be one or the other? Thanks
They can be done independently on Behringer x18 x32
You can. You select the channel you want to change and then page over to the sends and change individual sends using the rotary controls
This guy is a good teacher...your explanations are exceptional sir...
Thank you very much
Rad sweater
Thanks! I got it for Christmas a few years ago.