The Wanda Discourse
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2022
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#ScarletWitch #WandaVision #DoctorStrangeInTheMultiverseOfMadness - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I love wanda, great character. But she did enslaved a town for days, maybe months, while strange just made a simple spell to help a friend and when things went south he tried to fix it
The Hex was up for 6 Days :
Ep1 is Day 1, Ep2 is Day 2, Ep3 is Day 3
Ep4 takes place during the Ep1-3
Ep5 is Day 4, Ep6 is Day 5
Ep7 Ep8 & Ep9 is the final day. Day 6
That's very true. Strange wanted to help a friend making his life easily, wanda just enslaved people technically separating them from their beloved ones just because her robo-boyfriend died. Some people would say "But because of that strange almost destroyed the multiverse reality", but that's not true. All of that was peter's fault not strange's (Sometimes is very frustrating how people want to justify a psycho with lame arguments)
Wanda did something to benefit herself and Strange did something to benefit someone else, that alone proves how different the situations are
@@santievolution3843 and even then that was unintentional and they both went to great lengths Immediately to try and remediate the situation, Peter wrecked his life far harder than when he got into it even exactly so things would get better
That’s exactly the problem. She’s a sick character but for people to be calling her a hero is just mad considering her actions are fucked
Wanda doing villainous acts is pretty true to her OG comic counterpart. It’s just bizarre that stans treat her as a yass queen for all the actions she’s made in Wandavision. Even Monica in the finale sorta swept the brainwashing an entire town (including her) bit under the bus.
Exactly, this says more about the stans than the show itself. I think they were actually trying to interpret her as more villainous but people didn't take it the right way
@@MazeDaGr8 exactly no one has a problem with her being the villain if they are going that route but the way they just have Wanda doing evil acts yet they try and make her a hero is just dumb imo
That's exactly why they treat her like that.
She can do anything she wants with her power, even dragging innocent bystanders, and will meet no consequences for her actions.
Lack of accountability + power is what the "yasss kween" crowd wants.
All the power, none of the responsability.
@@MazeDaGr8 nah, that moment OP mentioned sets the tone.
And here, they could just try to paint her in a "awww, no Wanda, Strange is just as bad! You did nothing wrong queen!"
@@denkerbosu3551 Meanwhile, Peter Parker has to suffer every consequences of his own actions. May died, nobody remembers him.
What’s the point of “With great power, comes great responsibility.” if Spider-Man was the only one who had to take it to heart while the other “heroes” can be reckless as much as they want without having to face the consequences?
Remember when Wanda mind controlled hulk to attack a city of innocent people
Man, if people are defending MCU's Scarlet Witch's evil shit. I dont want to imagine them defending Comic Scarlet Witch
Man if they ever find out about “no more mutants” they’d just fucking die!
They never would defend Comic Wanda cause they don’t read Comics.
I love comic book Wanda, truly an icon, especially the no more mutants moment, such a powerful Queen 👑😌
P.S. I'm also not really deluding myself into believing she's a hero, so that's probably why I love comic her so much as well. I quite enjoy villainous characters 🤷🏽♀️
Good Lord, the comic versions of most marvel characters minus Spiderman are just absolutely terrible people and That's why I love their comics
You think that's bad. Tried getting annoyed by Tom Holland Fans and their stupid lectures, all because somebody says something bad about Tom and his role as Spider-Man. Or get annoyed by MCU fans who death threatens you, all because we're critising or ranting on a MCU film or show that has a bad moment, or how bad the film or the show's episodes are. This happened to me when I was critising on No Way Home. Now even though I like No Way Home I do have a lot of problems for it, but the fans keeps saying that I know nothing about the film or Tom and that I haven't seen the film (Even though I legimately said I did see it... in theaters the day it was released). This also happened to me when I hated on the What If series, as that was the point where I actually commented on how bad the show is for every episode, but some Troll thinks I was lying (when in reality I wasn't) and he thinks that my comments are false bcuz it doesn't makes since (Which my comments does makes since) It's a long story. I'm planning to make two new videos on No Way Home and the What If series, but these videos are gonna have to wait, as I'm currently writing and recording on my latest video.
Can't people just accept that she's a "villain" now?(or an anti-hero) She's definitely done horrible things in Wandavision to solidify herself as a "villain". And I personally like this direction for her. But I guess people think Wanda being evil = she's now a bad character(?) Again, I like Wanda. And I like the struggles and hardship she goes through in Wandavision. But enslaving a whole town/blocking out the military is definitely a villainous act. Which, I'm down for her character going in this power hungry fantasy direction XD
Me as well. Her being a villain isn't a bad thing. And if she is heading in that direction I like that she's a pretty sympathetic one...
I agree though I hope she’ll just be an anti hero and not a full blown villain.
I'm stealing your soul as we speak, SonicHaXD.
You will hear about me again.
A villain actively continually seeks to cause harm. Someone who has done something terrible, particularly by accident, is not a villain. They are just someone with a lot of bad kharma to deal with. A volcano might wipe out an entire city, but it is not "a villain" after that point for having done so.
It doesn't help when the show itself still tries to make her a full hero with the line of "they will never know you sacrificed for them". I mean come on.
I love Wanda but when she said that I was like “Er, well girl you accidentally enslaved an entire town out of grief…..”
Accidentally?
@@slashthejackal8558 Yes
@@DanFDTR I thought she did it intentionally.
@@slashthejackal8558 The initial creation of the hex was an accident. However once she figured things out she still chose to continue enslaving the town which is bad, but I don't think she knew how painful it was for them until the finale when Agatha set everyone free from her control.
@@DanFDTR Ah, I see.
Finally! Someone defends Tony for once. The guy is flawed and the MCU acknowledged this multiple times. And each time Tony tried to make up for it. To varying degrees of success, but still he was trying.
The weird part is, the MCU itself has plot lines centred around punishing Tony for his mistakes. Civil War depicts him falling apart because of his mistakes and losing his best friend for it.
Wanda also made up for it? she was there fighting just as much as him, she killed vision to save the world.
@@maddiejung974 after that she enslaved an entire town.
She'll have to go through another redemption arc
@@maddiejung974 But she failed, Thanos got the stone off vision lmao. Wanda is pathetic.
@@user-xr3ul2xc1l anonymous mask, how fucking cringe.
I seriously hope that either Doctor Strange or the Illuminati (that is if there in MoM) call Wanda out on her crap.
For gawd sakes; did anyone remember when Monica retorted by saying "The only lies I told you were the lies you put in my head!" ?
She kills the entire illuminati 🤣
I remember that. That's also the *SAME* thing as gaslighting! Marvel needs to get their shit together!
I tell myself that too much time in the Hex brainwashed Monica into pitying Wanda.
@@dreamwclker yep. And the Illuminati was too busy punishing a Doctor Strange from another universe to stop her. I swear to god..
My problem with the whole thing is that Wanda states that Strange is called a hero and Wanda is called a villain.
.... *By who? Who calls them that?*
Wanda's actions in Wandavision aren't really punished. She just walks away scott free and is told "no one will know what you sacrificed".
Strange gets nothing for what does. In his own debut movie, he dies hundreds of times to save the world from Dormammu and all he gets for it is just getting yelled at by Mordo. Hell, in the trailer for Doctor Strange 2, it looks like he's getting *arrested* and is having to face the consequences of his actions. That's the exact opposite of being called a hero, I would think.
So... what the hell is Wanda even talking about?
(Disclaimer: I haven't really seen the recent MCU stuff after Endgame. This is just what I'm getting from what people are saying.)
All Board the "Not Enough Context we'll have to watch it to know before we can argue" Train
THANK YOU!
@@romeoiiihidalgo9516 except it wasn't Agatha who Free the Westview citizens, it was Wanda herself after she saw how much it was hurting the Citizens.
I am here after watching the movie multiverse of madness and stans are still defending her 😂
@@XENOY30 oh you mean the movie in which she was brainwashed by the Darkhold, the Same thing that happened to Agatha, Sinister Strange and Doctor Strange himself?
21:41 Exactly. Protagonist just means main character and antagonist means their main opposition. There are anti heroic, morally grey or ambiguous and villain protagonists and hero antagonists. Most people understand that but there are some who think protagonist means hero and antagonist means villain and think main characters actions are justified by them being the main character when they aren't.
Thank you. It's called Protagonist Cenrered Morality.
Why can’t people just let characters be bad people??? I love Wanda and yes she is a flawed person who on the tipping point of full evil. I enjoy that shit
Its not 'characters'. Wanda is a cute white woman. So by default everything she does is right and just. You're not allowed to criticize or place that class of people in a bad light. That's misogyny.
@@Ergeniz I wasn’t gonna say that cause I didn’t want to go back in forth with a random Stan but you’re 10000% right. The babyfication of white women is just so insufferable
The issue is that the Writers, and the Narrative don't recognize it.
If the story properly recognized her committing a major fuck up, and she had to grow past that, it'd be great for stories, and her character.
But if the narrative can't recognize that, there can be no progress, because the writers are Pretending there's no progress needed.
I really liked Wanda. My second favourite moment in Endgame was her exchange with Thanos. ("Avengers assemble" is too iconic not to be my #1)
But Wandavision kinda ruined that. Maybe the Doctor Strange movie will fix that, but I have low expectations of anything Marvel anymore. Ever since Endgame dropped the ball entirely on multiple characters (Hulk's massive character arc happening off screen, Thor's struggles being played for laughs and discarding all the build up of his earlier movies being about him becoming the ruler Asgard needs, Captain Marvel existing, Thanos becoming a boring 1 dimensional badguy...)
Too many shippers in fandoms who think villains are poor victims who'll magically turn good after sex with the right person.
@@TheGoldenAlchemist86 THANK YOU!What makes it more insufferable is the fact that WOC wouldn’t get away with any of the bs that everyone lets white women get away with.And it’s worse considering the fact that in the comics,Wanda’s not even white,she’s Romani and Jewish,but in the movies,she’s played by a white woman.And I already know that if she was actually played a Romani actress,and she wasn’t a white woman,everybody would hate on her
Why are people more forgiving to female characters than to male characters? Like one female villain in resent masters of universe does so many awful things and one of them is destroying heaven or something, and all she gets is a banishment. Or in Raya and the last dragon, the conflict in the movie is caused by a villain who is a woman and yet she saves the world only because she could die with everyone else if she didn't and she never apologizes for any of her bad actions against the main characters who attempted to make a peace with her.
Wanda definitely did villainous things. She's the one who made Tony see what he saw to make Ultron. She's the one who corrupted the minds of the other Avengers including the Hulk which resulted in so much destruction and loss of life. Most importantly she's the one who Purple Man mind raped a whole town of people and didn't let them go the first time she had the chance.
I think you nailed it on the head where Tony was constantly scrutinized for his mistakes and you see he feels guilty and does try to correct his makes even sacrificing his life to defeat Thanos and save the universe. Wanda to some extent knew she was controlling people pretty much enslaving a town and tried to push away that topic until reality grabbed a hold of her. It’s like if I get drunk because of a breakup , I mean absolutely smashed and then I killed a family in a drunk driving accident it’s my fault cause I shouldn’t have been driving while under the influence. she’s not a bad person but she did a bad thing and it shouldn’t be defended because feelings
And based on MoM trailer, she own up to her misdeed. The problem is no one confronted her about it
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec maybe that happens in the movie but who knows, we have to wait and see. Wanda stans though gotta stop defending her like all she did was spill some milk
@@kryptonianotaku4975 Me I just hope she seek her own redemption even if neither Dr Strange or the other Sorcerer Supreme addressed it.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec As long as the movie doesn’t pull Amber or Teela bullshit about how what she did was right like how Monica said in WandaVision. Seriously she was also enslaved and felt what the others did she shouldn’t have said that
Another issue with the argument for 'Tony made Ultron' is that he kind of didn't. Tony was attempting to extract data in the form of what he believed to be an AI from the Scepter housing the Mind Stone. The AI then broke free of his control and containment. Tony was reckless and negligent, and he set the pieces out to allow Ultron to come into being, but it was entirely fallout from unforeseen consequences.
I am an MCU Wanda stan but I recognize she's done bad things. I am here for it though. She 100% should go full villain in Dr. Strange too. Like, become the best Disney villain.
On another note, WORST part of Wandavision was the end where Monica tried to say, "they'll never know what you gave up for them" like trying to paint her as a tragic hero. No, she was a villain. She enslaved and tortured that town. Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss
What was weird was for most of Wandavision the writers seemed to get that despite being traumatised by the things that happened to her that didn't make her enslaving the town OK. Only to pull a 180 in the last episode where they started treating her magically created kids like they were real, having Monica act like Wanda freeing brainwashed innocents was some heroic sacrifice and Wanda getting away.
Yea that line of dialogue was just dumb.
Can't Wanda just go and get her children and vision back anyways WITHOUT putting a town through all that Bullshit?
@@justbny9278 Yeah, can't she just pop a ring/hexagon around a house and have her little fantasy. Hell, white vision is still out there, so she can have that atleast.
@@saloz9483 And uncomfortable as hell!
Wanda also made Banner go berserk in Africa in AoU. The film later says scores of people died but Wanda is never punished for it. The MCU just ignores Wanda and Pietro are mass murderers. Marvel has real problems having their heroes act like flat out villains but insisting we still root for them.
I guess it could be argued that it’s not just Marvel with this issue, possibly the entire entertainment industry nowadays.
Yeah, later in the movie banner expresses hatred for her (the line “I could choke the life out of you and never change a shade” shows just how much he hates her for what she made him do) yet nothing really comes of that. To be fair tho they never interact really after this
Marvel also love to make “villains” actually saving people’s lives, like Agatha Harkness freeing civilians from Wanda or John Walker killing a terrorist and saving a falling truck while giving up his quest for revenge.
@@nont18411 That's different. That's just giving the bad guys depth so they're not one-dimensional puppy kicking monsters.
@@wdcain1 except that John Walker is never a bad guy. He is just an emotional trainwreck who got shat on by the show and the fans more than he deserves.
I can already imagine the tons of Wanda stans coming to this video and disliking it!
I actually got attacked on Facebook because of what I said about Wanda not being a villain! People need to look past the whole "she's POWERful wahmen!" bullshit card!
@@wiinterflowers4277 Fr.They use that argument every time,as if some women don’t hate or dislike Wanda,or at least see that her actions aren’t justified or okay.
@@magikphoenix140agreed they are basically Wanda's simp they justify her evil actions and making an excuse by saying "oh she was feeling with grief she losts the people who she loss so much" and also says that she is the most powerful character in the MCU who could beat anyone including the Cosmic Beings which is really dumb and completely so stupid, and if there's a video of her fighting other characters and that character wins they would get angry and cannot accept of Wanda's defeat just because she is the Scarlet Witch who has reality warping bla bla bla which is dumb.
@@magikphoenix140 she was corrupted
Oh boy, back from watching MoM and I'm sure this movie will make Wanda stans WAY more insufferable.
Oh, man, hopefully this movie culls their numbers a little bit.
Though, that's probably just wishful thinking on my part.
@@pedroportela6476 I heavily doubt it, but hope you're right. They are without a doubt, the most annoying and toxic part of any superhero "fandom"(and that's including the prep time Batman fans)
Man I see then everywhere it gets so annoying.It’s not even funny.I want to like Wanda but really can’t with how many there are repeat the same things over and over just argue with people every comment section
Hey 👋🏻 2 months later and yes you were absolutely right. They annoy me so much!
Agreed Wanda Stanz are annoying and sucks they tries to excuse of defending and justify Wanda's actions and act she didn't do anything wrong. "Muhhh Wanda was feeling with grief", " muhhh Wanda loses her family", "muhh Wanda didn't do anything wrong, " muhhh she was corrupted by the Darkhold". It shows how much disgusting, pathetic, and completely so stupid of how desperate toxic Wanda stanz tries to convince us that Wanda didn't do anything wrong or her actions was justifiable, they are basically just as worse as Wanda is
Honestly this is arguably one of the most frustrating things since people in universe are defending Wanda. Wanda enslaved a entire town in a semi-sadistic way.
Wanda is played by an attractive actress. Of course she gets defended. If she was a icky man he would be called out on her actions justly.
The most Wanda should ever get from those in universe regarding the Hex is the benefit of the doubt that in a moment of weakness she subconsciously created it and even got herself caught in the spell until something external temporary snapped her out of it like everyone else within it nothing more nothing less.
@@Ergeniz John Walker killed only one person (who is a terrorist) and the actor received numerous death threats from a fan. Just because he is not as attractive or cool as Chris Evans.
I think there's a lot of leniency there: She's made mistakes, but in universe she's "one of the good ones", and much like redemption for doing evil takes work it takes a lot to convince people that the person who put their life on the line multiple times defending the earth from aliens and killer robots has somehow turned bad. It makes sense that she's being given the benefit of the doubt until the situation is better understood.
Naturally, this doesn't justify *the show's* framing of wanda here, and I absolutely think it needs to be addressed in further properties involving Wanda.
All for the sake of a dead toaster, and two fake kids who aren't even her own children
Even taking out motivation factors Ultron was made with good intentions an planetary defense AI that gained sentience it was an accident Wanda fucking kidnapped a town out of grief
It's kinda like having a kid hoping they'll be able to do some good when they grow up,
But the second the kid is born it goes to the internet and on it's Own decides that Yeah Humanity can go F*ck itself, then picks a Joker We Live On a Society pfp and goes Berserk
Wanda sounds like an Anti-Villain at best now.
Her mentality of “I had to do something for you, be grateful” reminds me of Evil Cole in Infamous 1 calling people ungrateful for still not liking him for his prior actions (player determinant but since I’m saying *Evil* Cole they must not have been heroic) to saving a train car of people.
I think the Wanda Stans see her as so much of a victim that they want to justify her actions… a scary mentality as that’s what turns abuse victims into abusers themselves. However I don’t want to dwell there for long as that’s a dark subject matter above the paygrade of YT comments.
The “stans” are, mostly, just lusting after Wanda’s actress mostly. So it’s not as dark as you’re thinking.
@@AlonzoTompkins you have a sick twisted and insulting view of Wanda if that's what you think she is. Westview was an accident and she was suppressed and in denial. The darkhold corrupted her in MoM it wasn't her.
@@AlonzoTompkins or... we just understand the character and you don't
The difference is that Tony did something with the intention of protecting people and it went horribly awry.
Strange tried to do a favor for a friend and it went horribly awry (and Peter kept screwing with the spell, so he has as much blame as anyone else)
Wanda ENSLAVED an entire town, maybe she didn't know the full extent of how she was torturing them, but they were literally begging for death before she finally decided enough was enough and let them go.
imo robbing someone if their identity or free will in ANY way is always more horrifying than anything. Death, torture, rape, everything just suddenly pales as soon as you strip away that person's identity. The fact that she KNEW they were all essentially trapped in unresponsive bodies and knew what was going but couldn't speak makes it worse and she imprisoned the only other witch who could stop her to that same fate. I don't care if the movies or simps treat this as a noble sacrifice of Wanda choosing to free people she, herself enslaved. The moment she found out what was happening but chose to continue regardless without learning a single thing makes her a villain.
I think that the way MCU tires to portray Wanda is that if at the end, she does one good thing, all of her previous bad actions are forgotten.
They are torn between "we want to adapt the comicbook story that involves her being a villain" and "we want her to be seen as misunderstood hero".
I like her story as it is now, I like the way she's not perfect and does bad things, but just don't try to convince us that everyone in-universe who is critical over Wanda's action is wrong and must be an actual villain.
She's still one of my favorite MCU characters
As for the direction that the MCU could take Wanda, I think they should go with your idea of mind battle between Wanda and her Scarlet Witch persona, specially with the rumors that the villain will be Nightmare. The film could end with Wanda defeating her evil-self but still recognize that she did bad things. Then she could return in a New Avengers movie (or series) with the group being made of Captain America (Sam Wilson), Hawkeye (Clint Barton), White Vision, Shang Chi, Captain Marvel and Moon Knight (think of it as mix of West Cost Avengers and the team's second formation from the comics with Cap America, Wanda, Pietro and Hawkeye). All these members (except for Sam Wilson) are all heroes who made mistakes in their past, making their whole trilogy about they trying to find redemption and live up to the legacy of the original avengers.
She may have abandoned villiany, but villainy never really left her.
Also Multiverse of Madness worsened it.
What makes Wanda unique is that she is neither a hero or villain. She's just a person with her own struggles and circumstances who happens to be the most powerful person in the universe. She is clearly mentally unstable, which makes sense, but calling her a typical villain is stupid. Wanda shouldn't be held down by all these labels, she is just a person who has lost everything and wants her damn children back. That's probably why people stan and root for her.
Wanda is still a villian though just because you have traumatic past doesn't excuse her actions. The problem is fans think because we followed her POV and was a hero in the past she can't become a villian which is not true.
No one is calling her typical villian though I'd argue she is because nearly every villian now in last several years produced by Hollywood has been hit with the freudian excuse troupe (sympathic backstory) or has goal that's well intentioned and understandable. Sometimes they combine both.
@@Temujin18S Villains do things with intention, not by accident. Wanda literally manifested a whole new power she didn't know how she controlled. I don't know why people are acting like Westview was some grand plan. Did they even watch the show?
@@jaylan7847 Doesn't matter at no point was she remorseful for her actions holding an entire town hostage and brushed off Vision concerns about what she was doing. Mostly likely in future gonna double down on what she does. Just because she's has tragic backstory doesn't excuse her actions.
Problem is people think you have to justify a character's villiannous actions in order to like said character.
@@Temujin18S How do you know that she wasn't remorseful? Accidentally doing something harmful doesn't make someone evil, even if they still need to face justice. You could accidentally shoot someone and face jail time, doesn't mean the shooter is evil. So again, maybe you should read the dictionary on what a legit villain actually is.
@@jaylan7847 Wanda may have accidently set up the hex, but she had some idea of what was going on. She blasts Monica out of the hex because she had a sword symbol on her necklace and for bringing up real world events, she exits the hex to antagonize the sword agents (granted they tried to blow her up but the fact is she acknoledges the situation and then tells them to leave), she straight up acknowledges she's controlling people when Vision says something like "you can't control me like the others" and she replies with "can't I?" And even after all of that she refuses to lift the hex and free all the townspeople when her children and vision are disappearing.
Also, she doesn't even stay to face the punishment she deserves, she runs away from the authorities when they show up in the end.
You found out the main problem when you talked about Tony. The films DO point out his character's flaws frequently, while Wanda gets excuse after excuse from the same media. If whomever is in charge of the MCU didn't want this type of discourse to surround her, they should have either done the same amount of flaw calling out as Tony received, or just not have her do things like brainwash a town and ignore it as long as possible.
She was mind controlling the town not brain washing it.
@@rabbitseason7537 🤣Bruh that's semantics if I ever saw it, nor does it change that Wanda did awful things to the town at all.
@@rabbitseason7537still bad
So I'm going to comment after seeing Multiverse of Madness. I won't go into much detail right now because the thing is brand new. But I just want to say Snake was completely right that Wanda's terrible actions and Tony's terrible actions are not comparable and every mentally 15 year old with a Wanda pfp should apologize for throwing actual personal attacks at the man for seeing a flaw in the bullshit they spew, just to protect fictional characters. They won't though.
The rebuttal SHOULD be "well we didn't know this was the direction they were taking" but the reality is, these people are bloodthirsty and morally fickle so they're happy she even has screentime. But let's address the hypothetical argument that 4th snake was only right in hindsight.
Before this movie, Wanda had blindly helped a genocidal robot. Okay let's say Ultron wasn't going to destroy everything. What was her plan then? Destroy the Avengers, and take Ultron back to HYDRA? Speaking of, she joined HYDRA with only the vague excuse of "we wanted to change the world" which either means she was okay with plans such as "Wipe out 20 million and rule with an iron fist" or she once again blindly trusted people. She then mind controlled the Hulk to destroy anything and anyone in his path. It's not even like Bruce did anything to her or Pietro by that point. There is no excuse at all for that Hulk moment and Johannesburg
is never addressed.
Then simply Wandavision. I will say I disagree with Snake on one thing, but after Multiverse of Madness, his side has much more merit. I truly believe what Vision said. That Wanda initially making the Hex was entirely subconcious at first. We've seen it with superhero media in the past. Some of these heroes do not know how to control their powers, and psychic powers are some of the most unstable in fiction. She was not Comic Wanda insane, but for a moment in her life, she snapped...HOWEVER, while she didn't mean to make a town of slaves, she eventually did realize what was happening and kept on going. That part is irredeamable. Her "sacrifice" at the end of Wandavision pales in comparison to what she's done and I highly doubt Monica is ever going to follow up on that line in the MCU after what they just had Wanda do in Multiverse of Madness. You won't see me defending Tony's past, but at the end of the day, his sacrifice literally revived trillions all while spending years obsessing over how to save everyone. It's hard to beat that in terms of redeemable actions.
And I know someone's going to be like "What about her being the Nexus, Agatha's prophecy, that whole rubble scene in her mind?" Frankly, I know she's still going to play a part. But to anyone trying to suggest she isn't in control of her actions, no one told her to take that book to begin with. And if she is truly a hero but forced into this role, once she gets control again, she will be completely broken at the sheer weight of all that she's done. Anything remotely less and it's not genuine.
Spoilers:
I agree. Even if Wanda pulled a Darth Vader somehow and shook free of the Dark hold and redeemed herself, that still doesn't excuse the awful things she has done like assist Ultron, release the Hulk, not taking the Hex down asap, and basically all of Multiverse of Madness.
I think the best course for her character is to either have lean farther into her villainous/Scarlett witch side and eventually be killed or sacrifice herself, or have her go through an arc that makes her reconcile with what she has done throughout the mcu until she redeems herself (I have no clue how she could do that, but I'm sure some writers can)
@@redgoggles5531 also spoilers:
She saw her children with other other universe Wanda and then after a few minutes, she changed her mind about being tempted by the dark hold and decides to destroy it. Like how tf did she change that quickly? I don’t think sinister strange couldn’t get out of his corrupted state and he remained that way. Plus wouldn’t that undermine the darkhold’s ability in being this ridiculously powerful book. And then she just dies which really is not even that much of a punishment considering she was literally going on a killing spree brainwashing the evil wanda.
Basically, what I am tryna say about her redemption or “supposedly” was just rushed and didn’t really feel like a redemption arc. Now we don’t know if she is acc dead in the 616 universe
I could be wrong about some things so please do correct me on some things if that’s the case
@@nabilahmed579 I'm pretty sure Wanda is still alive because Elizabeth Olsen has a year contract I've heard so she could still redeem herself because like you said she hasn't redeemed herself yet. Also, I think Wanda was able to shake off the dark hold so easily is because she desired her kids and seeing her kids (from another universe) freak out at the sight of her was a big reality check. Sinister Strange in my mind was much more evil, using the Dark hold just to kill other Stranges because he was depressed or something
She didn't know the darkhold corrupts the reader. She took it to understand her powers so that something like Westview never happens again, then she got corrupted. She wasn't herself. And she also didn't even know that hulk would jump to a populated city. In age of ultron she fought for what she thought was right. Hydra didn't even present themselves as hydra to her, they were shield at the time confirmed in the prelude comic.
I think Wanda stans are the NEW worst thing that has invaded the MCU.
Agreed these wanda are shortsighted, oblivious to her Wanda's crimes and has no sense of justice.
She literally came into the mcu as a villian and they’re mad we’re acknowledging it? In civil war I genuinely felt bad for her cause it wasn’t her fault the bomb went off in wakanda and she got blamed for it. In Wanda vision tho what she did isn’t excusable I get it’s grief but she mind controlled a whole town, she isn’t a villian but she also isn’t exactly a “hero” either.
All defense is thrown out the window when you realize when Wanda found out that it WAS her holding the town hostage and creating a fake reality she didn’t do anything to stop it. Remember she came to terms with the fact she was doing it arguing with Vision but it took Agetha to let the people speak for themselves about how bad the situation really was. In between, Wanda was just moping around the house and playing pretend. It’s dumb.
She was confused and in denial. It's not as simple as just removing the hex. She had to go through the process. It's normal. She didn't even know she was controlling them.
Nothing braver than a person who spits their opinion at you then blocks you. There should be a medal for these courageous souls.
Ultron saw the internet and then wanted to destroy the world? Ha. So believable.
Jokes aside. I do hope people can learn to listen and talk to each other more rather than occasionally talking at each other and reaching for whatever label is most convenient.
I see the criticism towards Wanda the same way as the reaction many anime fans have towards Ichigo from Darling in the Franxx (and I mean the "real fans", not the ones who decide to send death threats to the creators and Ichigo's voice actress) in which a character made mistakes with understantable intentions, however her reasons don't excuse the gravity of her actions and how she handle them. In the case of Iron Man vs Wanda, at least Tony despite the mistake he made was quick to realize that he did wrong and tried to fix before things escalate. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't dumb or completly self-righteous. Wanda turn entire city into her slaves and spend most of the series refusing to listen to them. Even Vision called her out on her actions and she refuse to listen until things went out of control. The longer a character takes to realize his/her mistakes and redeem him/herself, the higher shall be the price he/she will have to pay in the end for this redemption.
Never knew it was possible for a video to age like spoiled milk and fine wine at the same time, but here we are.
Can’t wait for Sam rami to come back to direct a marvel movie.
Agreed Sam Raimi did a great job with the horror elements on it.
Honestly her turning into comic accurate scarlet witch in doctor strange makes a lot of sense. Moving on isn’t always forever especially when she still kinda believes in the false reality that she created with her kids and vision still being alive.
Tony’s thought process was far better explained and his journey throughout all the movies was about him learning from his mistakes. Wanda’s fans make excuses. Tony fans accept his shortcomings as a part of him and his growth. Something tells me the people excusing Wanda are feminists. It’s very in-character for them to make mistakes and expect the rest of the world to ignore it.
Also fearing Armageddon versus losing your boy toy. Hmmmm
You’re right.They’re “feminists” except they don’t really acknowledge that the writing of Wanda’s character isn’t good,and that she’s not a good role model for feminism.But they aren’t ready for that conversation.But also,part of comes from Wanda’s white women tears.
If Wanda said what she says in the trailer to me, I would be terrified cuz she’s crazy if she can't see how obviously wrong she is. Does she think it's ok to treat innocents like that just because you're super sad?
Yes. Because she’s mentally unstable. That’s why she has that mindset.
So you have good reason to be scared. Even she didn’t have powers.
she was crazy anyways tho after that stunt on the townsfolk.
Westview was an accident and psychosis. Then she got corrupted by the darkhold. That book made her like that. She was not herself.
@@anotherrandomguy8871 no
@@themultiverseproductions8492yes
As someone I've watched said you can't put one character on a pedestal ignore all there flaws and then demonise another character for doing the exact same thing or less
"Tony created ultron, in part, BECAUSE WANDA FUCKED WITH HIS MIND!"
Fucking thank you!
Exactly if Wanda hadn't fucked with Tony's head, Ultron would never have been created in the first place, her home Sokovia would never have been destroyed for the greater good, and her brother would still be alive.
Can’t wait for your next video: In defense of John Walker.
This guy got overly hated by the fans for the tiniest crime possible.
As for Tony building Ultron thing. He admitted it makes him feel like a monster afterward and because of that he choose to side with the Sokovia accord.
Funny how this video needed to be nearly 40 minutes to have to explain something to Wanda stans I love it
Yall just do not understand the character at all.
One thing I never liked is that Wanda released the Hulk into the city killing who knows how many people, and it was never addressed.
Remember when Bruce said "I could choke the life out of you right now and never change a shade." That was pure hatred coming from Bruce. Hell, it was one of the main reasons Hulk said "screw it!" and left the planet.
I was excited to see what would happen when Bruce came back to Earth and faced Wanda again. But nope! Imagine Bruce being civil with Wanda but making it clear that he absolutely despises her.
Plus she should totally be in jail or some kinda pysch ward for the crimes she committed in Wandavision. I mean, very sad backstory, Wanda. Still an absolutely heinous crime.
I mean if that's the case every single one of them need to be in jail somewhere🤷🏽♀️
@@queeniryb8449 Not exactly. The only people who willfully committed crimes were Wanda, Natasha (pre joining Avengers), and Bruce (if we're counting his involvement in Ultron's creation.
Wanda willingly released the Hulk into the city. She knew what she was doing. Ironic because it's basically the equivalent of dropping on bomb on them. She willfully enslaved an entire town. You could argue in the beginning she wasn't 'aware' of what she was doing, but after episode 5 or 6, she has no excuse.
At least with Bruce one could argue he was trying to do some good. Natasha gets no excuse. But she was repented like Tony and tried to make up for it.
@@Butterism it doesn't matter whether or not it was willfully committed, nor does it matter if it was purposeful. A crime is a crime, even when accidental.
@@queeniryb8449 That's true, but I'm having hard time thinking of the rest of the Avengers willfully (or accidentally) commiting a crime. The only thing that comes to mind is Steve and his faction refusing to sign the Accords. Which I found them to be faulty for a multitude of reasons.
Other than that, I can't really think or anything. Feel free to add examples. 😅
Yeah my friend got dozed by wanda stans cause she had the audacity to say that wanda enslaving a town, joining hydra, making the hulk rampage and kill a bunch of innocent people isn’t the same as dr strange accidently messing up a spell.
Like this is my core issue, from day one she’s been a villian and never held accountable for her actions like, she joined hydra willingly then in civil war complains about how everyone fears her cause of her powers.l like she signed up for that??. Am i just crazy for feeling no sympathy for something she caused herself???. It would be different if she was experimented on by hydra against her will and all that tragedy wasn’t her fault but from day one she’s been causing problems. Yes her parents died, thats sad but??. How does joining hydra solve anything???
She never felt like a hero, i don’t even get why she was even an avenger cause half the time in the movies she only cares about her boyfriend and no one else
And before anyone comments on tony stark, the difference is tony from day one has taken steps and efforts to be held accountable and he’s also a hero who deals with ptsd and trauma HELL WANDA LITERALLY TRIGGERED HIS PTSD AND ANXIETY WHICH CAUSED ULTRON
This is such a dumb comment “UWU WANDA TWIGGERED TONY’S PTSD 🥺🥺” did you even think about any of this comment before writing it. Or do you even process information that is presented to you? I can accept the argument that Wanda might be a bad person but this comment was so hard to read hahaha
@@seanschaller553 Dude, OP opened the comment with his friend got fixed because they dared disagreed with Wanda stans!
@@seanschaller553 dude my point is, wanda as a Character from day one has been a villian and that’s okay? But the fact my friend was sent death threats and doxxed by wanda stans all cause they didn’t agree with wanda’s actions. And if marvel’s intentions as to create a complex sympathetic hero they missed the mark cause she’s never been a hero, and I don’t think the movies have done a decent job at her atoning/redemption for age of ultron so the whole thing of seeing a hero fall into villianay doesn’t work well,
maybe they’re doing a dragonball and copying vegeta’s character arc onto wanda and after dr strange 2 wanda will become a hero but until then rn she’s a villian like she’s always been in the mcu.
@@seanschaller553 Seems like we have another Wanda Stan on our hands, fellas.
Also strange tried to fix his mistake. Yeah he sent out Peter to primary handle the villains that he and strange let lose, but after that Dr Strange tried to bring those villains back to their respective universes. The reason why the main universe was getting more and more messed up was because Peter trapped him onto the mirror dimension, so strange couldn’t finish the job to finish and fix his mistake and Peter then released all those villains to try and help them.
I blame both Peter and Strange for the events that happened in the movie, and I blame Wanda for what happened to the townsfolk since she didn’t try to stop it once she was made aware that the townsfolk were suffering, and didn’t she mind warped vision when he tried to help them out and tell Wanda about the situation?
I didn't even know people tried to defend her? I've been naturally cautious of her since Age of Ultron because one of my favorite comics is Avengers Disassembled. She was bound to go rogue eventually and nothing can possibly justify enslavement of a town
Wanda is one of my favorite characters in the mcu. She’s been through tragic things lost her parents as a kid, her only remaining family is dead, and now the love of her life (to her knowledge) is gone. But that’s not an excuse for the horrible things she’s done, she’s not evil per say but is in a very bad place and needs guidance to get better mentally.
6:43--I think you're thinking of when Wanda wiped out a Wakandan slum in Civil War.
I stepped away from the MCU after _Endgame_ mostly due to my loathing of Disney but how parts of its fanbase rabidly constantly made excuses for attractive people's villainous actions was definitely part of it too. The same goes for the resulting "ideological" clashes that quickly get uncivil, if they ever were in the first place. That was/is my biggest pet peeve with fandoms--the (horny) belief of "Beauty Equals Goodness"--in general though, which is part why I always rolled my eyes when people downplayed or even outright ignored MCU Loki's villainy even if he always had genuinely sympathetic aspects; after the show _Loki_ I can only imagine that's even worse now--ugh.
In a bit of irony, this is precisely a large part of the reason why I enjoyed _Civil War_ the movie. Seeing a large part of the MCU fandom tear itself apart over their believing either Tony was 100% in the right and Steve was 100% in the wrong or vice versa was--and still is--fucking *hilarious.* Even more so when neither side still seems to realize that they were *both* wrong and at best doing *some* right things during that movie for largely selfish if understandable reasons, e.g. Tony's constant guilt and Steve's constant time-displaced isolation.
It's almost like the vast majority of people are bad at understanding nuance and things that aren't "black or white", i.e. basically nothing. Who could have seen that coming given the whole of human history? /s
Its a combination of the tropes "Beauty equals goodness" and "The fairer sex". Might want to throw in "I have boobs you must obey" as well.
@@Ergeniz If we're talking about (the MCU version of) Wanda, then, yeah, I'm sure Elizabeth Olsen's huge "tracts of land" and beautiful face & figure play a (huge) part in the defense of her among a lot of fans.
If we're talking about in general with this particular "Draco in Leather Pants" type of thing, however, then not really since basically most of the examples I can think of are *male* and thus neither are "the fairer sex" nor possess obey-boobs, especially if we're just limiting ourselves to comic book movies here. In fact, off the top of my head, the only other female instance of villainous actions I can think that gets excused along the lines of "(s)he's sexy, so (s)he and their actions can't be _that_ evil" in (those type of) movies is from that dumpster fire _WW84_ where Wonder Woman basically rapes an unconscious guy.
Since the mostly male defenders are *so* thirsty for Gal Gadot, they can't seem to contemplate that someone might not want to sleep with her--gasp!--even if they're "normal", much less if they'd be completely unconscious during it. To me, that example is actually (way) worse than the apologists for Wanda's worst actions, as annoying as said apologists can be, since at least with Wanda, her worst actions barely have any real world equivalents. Meanwhile the _WW84_ defenders (of that scene) basically admit they'd condone rape if a hot enough woman does it, including Patty Jenkins herself since she doubled down on it, which killed any respect I still had for her after punishing myself with that movie.
Hell even in the comics she have done a lot that would put her as a villain big time, one that always come to mind is the "No More Mutants" after the House of M that pretty much killed a lot of mutants. Even tho House of X brought a lot back, but hell Wanda not having control both showing here and in the comics.
Killed a lot of mutants? I thought she just depowered them.🤔
@@Hillthugsta more like she snapped reality so they wouldn't have powers
Wild af
@@Hillthugsta A lot of them died from the result of the depowering. From some using their powers during a event then get depowerd and some who lives was depended on their powers.
And don't forget a whole story prior, she murdered Scott Lang and Jack of Hearts, turned Hawkeye into a suicide bomber and even used her own husband to attack the Avengers. Wanda's always been fucked in the head
@@connorharnage6697 yep and you are not wrong as that happen in the comics
I’d argue she’s more intriguing going through this villainous phase and trying to brush it off and ignore her actions makes her far more bland.
1:02
TheSphereHunter did a pretty good video about DmC in Retrospect about the controversy surrounding the game.
TheGamingBritShow also did great constructive criticism comparing DmC with Metal Gear Rising in terms of gameplay, story and presentation.
Im sorry, I know this is very off-topic, but somehow that dead horse is more interesting to me than the MCU by this point lmao.
To be fair I blame this on the dissonance between Elizabeth Olsen's Wanda and the writers' Wanda. Elizabeth plays Wanda like a grieving woman slowly losing her grip on sanity; the writers' Wanda is someone who is justified in what she's doing simply because she's grieving.
22:23 - 22:54
THIS! This point right here is my ultimate problem with modern Marvel writing.
...
I grew up with Marvel innovation and witnessed their efforts to improve both their stories and characters to many different degrees, but I remember when the multiple reboots started up and ended up with REALLY REALLY bad writing (the Ultimates series comes to mind when incest and pedophilia reared ugly heads) and the damage was irreversible, and revealed something much worse.
Marvel stopped caring about actually giving us proper characters and good stories. They care about Checklist Marketing, making sure they could use the Marketed Brands to appeal on all levels that had potential consumers.
You like butts and boobs? They got it. You don't like butt and boobs? Here's "your version" to have. You like "non-Woke stuff"? Here's your feed from that well-known-to-be-right-wing Author that they hired just for that. You want blacks? You got blacks! Oh, you want them front and center? Well, sure, but you'll get the diet version where they HAVE to come along with one of the popular white characters or they can't deal with the Purist Fans (*cough*MilesMorales*cough*). You want "childish stuff"? Let's make it, but prove why that's never a good idea. Here's the first African-Asian-Latino-Mediterranean-Southeastern-Irish-Danish-Scottish superhero that they'll spend only so much unless it trends for more than a week.
And it got worse when sociopolitics got involved (whether it mattered or not), and they went out of their way to appear "a spicy neutral," which came with those uncomfortable moments like with the "Anti-Woke Endgame cut" (which someone proved Marvel tailored to accompany "anti-woke fanbois" or the "Captain Feminist versus Average-Flirt-Dudebro" (which got cut out after the writers were sent death threats over it).
Marvel barely addresses these issues as they consider it "brand engagement" and just basically says "just get excited for more of the same drama and remember that we will kill off a character or 10 if we need your attention".
So, the moment when these longtime characters have these nuanced arcs that the writers CLEARLY never intended to go this route, but too late it's public, they can never follow up properly because it stops being about doing so to the respect of the character and the audience, and more about "well, we can fix it in the next installment or forget about it to allow fans who seem to care more than we do". Ironman's arc is actually being constantly tweaked by upper Management because he's consider "a US Military Propaganda Character", and must always be portrayed as a "decent guy".
My point is I don't trust Marvel writing to properly resolve these things anymore, because it'll just be undone or lack impact other than more "brand engagement" for Marvel to capitalize on... I'm tired lol
I love your videos
Strawmen always gotta be ruining the fun in the entertainment world.
@@breaksystembse I'm contributing because I agree with the rest on what you just said with character assassinations, using SJW and feminism as a gimmick rather than a quirk, just to name a few.
@@the-point-bearer6689 Oh, my bad. The Internet got me a bit snappish. Wholeheartedly agree.
I really like Wanda and I really did enjoy the Wandavision series but yeah facts are facts she did mind-controled an entire town and that's fucked-up & Wrong. Although, a lot of people do say she got off too easy, I kinda interpret it as she'll get what's coming to her later as just because karma doesn't strike you immediately, doesn't mean it's not gonna strike you at all.
Also and I'm probably reading too deep into this but the comparisons between Tony and Wanda's actions (which is a dumb comparison to begin with) I think kind of plays into that real-life dumb double standard where most of the time if a man does something wrong people call him out & reprimand him for whereas, when a woman does something people tend to be more forgiving and try to justify it, Again I could be wrong.
All in all the Multiverse of Madness film does have a lot of potential but hopefully it addresses certain issues as well and sticks the landing.
I hope so, cause this Doctor Strange/Scarlet Witch movie is gonna probably delve into the Horrors of their Actions just like how Hawkeye addressed Clint’s issues with being Ronin and how he was ignorant of his own actions out of Grief.
Redemption is a hard concept to properly do, and when doing it you have to take in Every detail that happened. Every episode and every appearance that they appeared in that features them adds up, and needs to address the problems and the complications of their actions.
Hopefully it’ll be addressed once the movie comes out. But redemption is a process, so there’s no telling how long it’ll take.
@@danielramsey6141 At least Hawkeye pulled off his arc. My only grip was Yelena and Kate's bickering. And I liked Echo's arc.
She changed after Cosmo left
Steve Rogers: I understand that reference
This sounds like the whole Edelgard debate again…
I think Wanda's line refers to something more we haven't seen yet, either from in-between Wandavision and Doc Strange or from in-movie stuff related to the multiverse shenanigans, so I'm mostly on the "lacks context to tell wait up til the movie's out dummies" train
Spider-Man truly was a menace all along he shattered the multiverse, "lol what a dumbass"
Funnily enough a kid cartoon from idk the 80s where the good guys are paragons of virtue Also wouldn't have entirely pure evil villains who are the Absolute Worst Lowest of the Low because that would be too extreme, at most you can have'em implications
Kinda out of topic, but I kinda wish they hadn't retconned Wanda's powers to have come from bloodline, rather than it purely coming from Stucker's experimentations from what turned out to have been The Mind Stone. Cause then you've could have made that as a jumping-off point for when (or if) they do Mutants in the MCU, by retconning their powers stemming from Humans being mutated by the Infinity Stones, and getting abilities based on their properties. So Space Stone= Nightcrawler's Teleportation, Power Stone=Scott's Lazers and Jubilee's "Fireworks", Reality Stone=Colossus's Metal Skin, and Mystique's Shape-Shifting, so on and so forth. And after the Spike in Cosmic Radiation after the Snap, people all over the planet are suddenly developing powers, Governments start taking these individuals to camps around the country for what they say is their good, and the safety of the public, making the MCU's variants of Magneto and Charles act in their way based on their views of how Mutants and Humans should coexist (or not, in Magneto's case), Classic X-Men stuff. But now it turns out She already had powers to start with, despite it being said they came from the experimentations, and she just forgot about it cause of Trauma I guess. Sure there's Pietro, but I feel like it would've been a stronger connection between the two if we had a pre-established character still kicking for reference.
Also I don’t know how much this will play into it but Wanda was reading the Darkhold.
Wanda gets defended more because of her gender..But yeah..what she did was WRONG but what Strange did was too..tho IF peter would had just Shut up from the start the spell would had worked.In the END Peter did a right move tho and i guess Wanda will be too..Her being more of a background Mystic in the Next Avengers or some other team would help a lot and in time she can get her mistakes somewhat forgiven or she atleast Helps save the world
The way he spiraled into an existential crisis after stating his true points.
I really can't understand why wanda stans are like this.
I'm pretty sure people who agree with Wanda also agree with Amber heard lmao
Sickening to even compare Wanda with such a person. She was corrupted by the darkhold and Westview was an accident and psychosis.
Wanda: Brainwashing Tony causing him to created Ultron and enslaving almost 4000 civilians for weeks because she missed her dead husband -> Still getting praised by the fans as a tragic “hero”.
John Walker: Killed one person who is a super soldier terrorist that had a hand in his best friend’s death and tried to kill him a minute before -> Became the most hated character of the entire Marvel Universe. Fans call him a “genocidal white supremacist war criminal psychopath”.
people have problem with Walker but they don,t care about awful lines like "you should do better senator"? Suddenly every villian can be saved with some bullshit excuse, but the guy who KILLED one person and had his reason is evil. It,s sad that many people forget about great Rocket line from " GotG" - everybody has dead people - that's something Wanda should hear.
While some people are saying that Wanda got of to easily, I interpreted it as "she will get her consequences later".Karma dosen't always strike immediately remember.
Reylo. Please don't give me that memory
Wanda stans are so fricking annoying like how can you still call her the victim after what she's done
You are all annoying for not seeing why she is still a victim. She was a victim to her powers that accidentally made the sitcom world, she was suppressed and in denial, suffering from psychosis. It was not that simple. Then she got corrupted by the darkhold. A victim to its hold on her mind. She didn't even know what it does to people.
@@themultiverseproductions8492she was not a victim and didn't you see she's enslaving the entire town to do her selfish fantasy desires even Vision confronted her about the HEX situation and in Age Of Ultron she mind controls Hulk to attacking innocents civilians, you says she is the victim who didn't do anything wrong then no wonder you Wanda stanz are denial. You only excuse of "oh she was corrupted by the Darkhold" but in WandaVision she didn't corrupted by the Darkhold and she do it on her purpose then after WandaVision instead of taking punishment and faces the consequences of her actions, she ran off and instead of redemption she read the Darkhold. And then in MOM came out she tries to dreamwalk to kill his other variants to replace to her variants kids that did not exist on her universe and killing countless people, so she could dreamwalk to do another her selfish desires of she cries "muhhh my boys". If you says she's corrupted then what about the scene where the Darkhold gets destroyed she still wanted to Dreamwalking and threaten Wong to give the information of Wundagore or else she kills the other sorcerers or what about the scene where 838 Wanda's kids scares of her demon variant version of their mother, she legit snapped and have redemption by destroyed the Darkhold. She cannot be talk no jutsu by Strange, Mr Fantastic, Wong, or America Chavez but yet she gets to surprised and realize of what she's doing after her variants of her kids scares of her. This explained that Wanda wasn't fully corrupted it was her intention even 838 Strange was when using the Darkhold he wasn't even fully corrupted and have some sense of humor and takes responsibility of his actions after dreamwalking and causing incursion.
@@themultiverseproductions8492And you Wanda stanz are delusional and way annoying. Its you-you're the problem, you defended Wanda because you're just the same as Wanda stanz. She wasn't corrupted by the Darkhold but it was herself doing and she was the one who read it in the first place. Wanda loses her family so what ? Other sentient being in the MCU has lost their loved ones but they didn't turned evil like Peter Quill, Tony, Peter Parker they accept their deaths unlike Wanda did. Just because she lost her loved ones doesn't mean she justifiable her actions by enslaving the people on Westview.
@@dimazfantasy5252 anyone who has the darkhold, gets completely corrupted by it. And she took it to learn and control her powers so that something like Westview never happens again. Don't try to diminish the effects of that book because of a hate boner for a fictional character. Westview was accidental and she was suppressed in that world herself. That whole debacle lasted for 12 days, and we only started watching it on the 9th day. Yes the first episode takes place on the 9th day of the incident, where she was STILL not even remembering her life prior to it. So it took her from the 9th day to the 12th day to let the people go. It was always gonna be a process.
@@dimazfantasy5252 YOU are the bloody problem
Tony created ultron to help, he was trung to help the world, tony created vision too(with bruce, the lady scientist and thor help).
Don't defend Wanda, just accept she is a flawed character who has done bad things. Her choices have been driven by emotion and she is impulsive. Wish for her to be better, wish for her to improve as a person.
Fans acknowledge the wrongdoings and mistakes of their favourite characters. Obsessed fanboys and fangirls on the other hand think not pretending their favourite characters are perfect somehow means they're not fans.
Most cared about her beauty and powers lol. That's why they're crazy as fuck.
@@Xehanort10 If that’s the case,they don’t like the character.They like their own made-up perfect version of this character they created in their head,and disguise it as liking the character
@@mr_mattsz You are so right!Thats the only reason they have.Because they only talk about her powers,her looks,or her trauma,because that’s all she really has going for her.Because,she(in my opinion at least)isn’t actually that well written and she has a lack of development.She also has zero personality besides powers and trauma,which aren’t even real personality traits.
The Age of Ultron discussion also doesn't mention the fact that Wanda and Pietro's motivation make no sense.
They want to kill Tony because some terrorist used one of his weapons and it killed their parents. They didn't kill the terrorist, but, they'll Tony for making the weapon.
Imagine if Batman didn't take down Joe Chill, but, instead he goes after whoever owns Smith and Wesson.
Or Batman could kill the guy who sold/gave the weapon to Joe. What you wrote kinda reminds me of scene from Civil War, with mother of kid that died in the beggining, when Avengers tried to stop terrorists. She blames Tony, asks who will avenge her son, but did she thought for a while how many people could die if Avengers were not there? Sure, Rumlow had a beef with Captain America, but he was hydra for somt time anyway and he had no problem with helicarriers prepared to kill 250 000 people few years before.
@@Endru85x Her son died in Sokovia, not Lagos. But, I understand.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed it.And the writers tried so hard to make it seem like they were some sort of complex villains.That’s like you’re loved ones getting shot but instead of blaming the psychopath who shot them,you blame the person who made the gun.
Then tony is complete idiot to attack Bucky in the end of civil war
@@SA_586in Tony's case i don't blame him for tries to attacking Bucky even Bucky was mind controlled back then. He saw the footage of his parents die and the killer is beside him, its natural for Tony to get angry and wanted to kill the man who killed his parents. If someone kills my parents i would be really pissed as well
Really hope the new strange movie doesn't try to bring strange down to make Wanda look better but the trailer isn't giving me hope.
Laughs in Loki and Hawkeye.
@@nont18411 haven't seen those so Ill just assume things went to shit
@@HunterForHire422 Loki was replaced by a female version of himself.
Clint Barton has way less screentime than those of Kate Bishop.
@@nont18411 figures
@@nont18411 Also Kingpin was turned into a joke.
Wanda was introduced as an agent of Hydra. The fact that Steve didn't kill her on sight is bafflingly out of character.
Honestly I love having a character like Wanda around. She started as a villain and the person she ended up clinging to was taken from her which she cannot handle. She was in pure denial and never intended to hurt anyone but it's a lesson that hopefully she learns throughout her run in the MCU where her actions, despite being good intentioned, were selfishly inflicted on an entire town of people just to keep herself from accepting the death of someone she loved. It's awesome seeing characters like Tony and Wanda who both have struggled with their moral compass and their actions have reflected that. The movies often include these complex characters dealing with the consequences of their actions and the story isn't just about subjectivity or motives, it's about actions impacting as many as thousands of people and these characters trying to deal with the burden of being morally obligated to use their abilities to do the right thing while also trying not to ruin their own lives in the process.
I could listen to Snake talk Marvel all day ^__^
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences" Homer
She also made Hulk go rampent in age of Ultron were he probably killer a lot of civilians. But let's just forget that
Anyways Wanda solos
Strange Supreme and Infinity Ultron laughs
How do you write Disney Wanda?
You write Doctor Strange, and remove Reason and Accountability.
Your ideas for Multiverse of Madness sound way more interesting than the trailers make it out to be, for me. I kinda see Wanda as a villain now, after enslaving an entire town and stopping the military from getting in. Redemption *could* be done, but it’d have to be handled carefully.
She was corrupted by the darkhold
I like this video. Especially the 2010 era green screen effects 😄better than what i can do! Anyway keep making awesome content!
I'm so glad that the MCU completely ended with Endgame, and no media came out after to shit all over multiple characters I loved, like Loki and Wanda.
Though Endgame already was shitting on a few of them...
How they character assassinated Wanda has created such a toxic fan base
@nexus being wym
@nexus being And if your talking about the whole Scarlet Witch thing than that doesn't excuse her character not being remorseful or guilty for what she's done she only gets emotional when the people of Westview call her out it's definitely a character assassination
They should just let wanda be a villian like damn man. CHARACTERS CAN ARE ALLOWED TO BE TERRIBLE! That does NOT make them a bad character. Furthermore I just want to see House of M come to life in some way!
Wanda is one of the best characters in Marvel comics and these obnoxious Wanda fans (and MCU writers to an extent) refuse to acknowledge that she's constantly switching between being a hero/villain due to her mental health and is meant to be a morally chaotic neutral character. Folks defending her actions in Wandavision are clearly missing the point in that she's intentionally being set up to be the next big bad.
Unfortunately "mental health issues" is becoming a popular excuse for people doing wrong in real life. Usually used by people with none to manipulate the type of people who blindly believe anyone who says they have mental health problems whether they do or not.
Wanda is a villain and I love it
She enslaved an entire city, end of the story.
And we dont know what kind of shit she will pull off in Dr Strange 2.
On the other hand, she might have the biggest character arc in the entire MCU.
*Town
Only watched for abit but so far I agree with your points and it made me realize how she wasn't fully unaware, she was aware to some extent ie I forgot which episode where she said no and time reversed and when she kicked Monica out
Great video
Snek: "... Of course, Ultron's actions were driven by something he saw on the internet, which has nothing to do with anybody."
I'd argue it has something to do with EVERYBODY. The internet is sort of everybody's social Australia
I don't find the "she enslaved a whole town" argument to be particularly compelling, at least not in the way it's framed most of the time. Her powers ran on autopilot and she *(initially)* was among its victims. If you don't believe me watch the dinner scene from Episode 1 where her and Vision struggle to recall any details of their past life beyond "We are happily married and here now" - she has no idea what happened pre-Westview.
Now, she IS the villain and did do some very, very evil stuff during the show, but I wouldn't necessarily say she's the villain because of the initial enslavement. The fucked up thing she is actually responsible for is *continuing* after realizing she had unknowingly enslaved the town.
Same thing goes for the "torture the townsfolk after they beg her to stop" thing. Her powers went on autopilot during the confrontation without her knowledge - which is why she immediately stopped, apologized, and let them go.
Finally a comment on this video that makes sense lmfao. People seem to of forgotten or are choosing to ignore the fact Westview was an ACCIDENT out of uncontrollable grief, Wanda never went out her way to take an entire town hostage...
@@dreamwclker yeah. And again - her continuing the mind slavery from episode 3's "I'm a twin" scene onward (what i believe is the moment she realizes what's happening/remembers what happened before the series, based on the acting, first reference to the past, and how, after throwing monica out, she sees vision in corpse form for the first time, though it's never made clear) is understandable, but evil/villainous. And her running away from the authorities isn't a good look either.
However, it's extremely unfair imo to blame someone for their powers doing something on their own accord that they didn't even know they could do while they're under intense stress, especially when they didn't know what was happening until after the fact. It is, of course, also unfair to compare that to dr strange's spell in no way home - as that was much less severe and, if anything, peter's fault for trying to change the spell midway through 5 or 6 times.
Each times a see wanda the characters is more interesting but those toxic groupies damn
Ultron was created by Tony and Banner, yet people only mention Tony, I wonder why
Because Marvel forgot to make Banner a compelling main character. His character was never fully fleshed out. That’s why everyone remembers that Tony snapped in Endgame (to wipe out Thanos) but forgets that Hulk was actually the one who brought everyone back.
Yeah Banner did as well but he was only peer pressured by Tony to do so. In addition, people find Tony more accountable cause it was his whole idea in the first place.
@@nont18411 MCU Banner sucks as both himself and The Hulk. He had potential in the solo Incredible Hulk film and first Avengers but was randomly paired with Black Widow in Age of Ultron. And Merged Hulk who in the comics is Bruce's intelligence and Hulk's strength was made a joke in Endgame.
I would refer you to James Somerton’s video titled “The Scarlet Witch and Outsider Trauma” published yesterday.
12:45 Tekken fans explaining why Heihachi and Jin arent actually evil.
People recently seem to think that addressing your fav character has done horrible things equals bad writing or a bad character, and make the argument of "___ did nothing wrong" when bad actions being done in character can more often than not make them more interesting.
SLAY KING
I really hope they turn her into somewhat of a villain in Doctor Strange 2
You got your wish and more
@@nabilahmed579
But sadly not the way I wanted it
@@captainamedeus7047oh so what side is it then? people want and need her to be the worst most evil villain in the mcu because it’s her character apparently but then when they do it everyone hates it 🙄
@@DarkDeeds47 It’s more so that I wanted the book or her powers to take a hold of her. Like the experiments that granted her powers probably. Maybe it’s something from all the trauma she’s endured.