Campagnolo Ultra-Torque Creaking Solved!
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- We may not be able to pronounce Campagnolo correctly (nor do we roll our R’s when ordering a burrito at Taco Bell), but we understand exactly why Campy’s amazingly competent Ultra-Torque cranks tend to creak and drop chains. Check out the vid to see how BBInfinite fixed what ails Ultra-Torque to unleash this great system’s true potential.
BBInfinite is here to solve the bottom bracket creaking and squeaking that’s ruining you ride. BBInfinite doesn’t just fix a bottom bracket creak, we deliver the highest spin performance of any BB system out there. Faster and creak-free? Absolutely, with BBInfinite.
Check us out at www.bbinfinite.com
For fast service and quickest responses contact us via Facebook or Instagram messenger, or email at info@bbinfinite.com.
this is slightly more nerdy and family friendly hambini and I very much enjoy it
Well, actually, that would be nerdier, my friend, not more nerdy---as I push my taped-together glasses up the bridge of my nose.
This is truly awesome. I really mean it. The product is well designed. The explanation was logical and the videoing was helpful. Thanks very much.
Campy UT is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
😃@@BBInfinite 👍
Nice detailed explanation of what is causing Campy Ultra Torque bottom bracket creaking.
And, as you went along I was excited thinking that, BBInfinite had produced shim sets to fix the problem...
Still get a thumbs up.
That whole shim thing is doable but completely unnecessary. Use the Loctite method. No trial and error, multi-iteration testing to get it right, like with shims. We've done both.
Installed the BB30 with ABEC 7 bearings for my Campy Ultra Torque crank
set on the weekend. Just completed a century ride and all I can say
to this point is that my drive train is now more smooth, silent and stiffer.
Great product, many thanks.
Thank you for the wonderful feedback.
U NEVER COMPLETED ANYTHING IN YOUR WIMPY LIFE MUCH LESS A CENTURY. NICE TRY. PENELOPE.
So far I rode 12500 km with my Campy and did not have an issue. Good to know what to look at in case of creaking noises and have a viable solution at hand. Thx.👍
But isn’t that why you should use clip on drive side cups? Then there is no movement.
The ONLY thing that checks the side to side, axial movement in a conventional UT setup is the wave washer. The clip on the cup does nothing for the user at all, it is there for the assembly process only, as it's meant to hold the crank half in the bike while the crank is being installed. That is it. It's to keep an expensive crank from bouncing off the floor by a bike mechanic. If it was intended to stop axial play during use, it was an abysmal failure, and redundant to no effect.
Since the 6805N is 6mm tall… and that causes the play in there… would using the 6805 7mm bearing without grinding it down solve the problem?
The picture on the product labels show that the retaining compound is applied to the pressfit side of the bearing which is the inner one. The outer has much more play, so I doubt a little bit that this holds for long…. Or the other way: would you recommend to reapply the compound regularly?
Buen video, próximamente tengo que instalar mi pf30 bbinfinite en ultratorque, gracias
Excelente, gracias. Nos alegra que confíe en nuestros productos.
Awesome solution! can you do both on BSA ultra torque cups? use the compound and also install the wave washer? I've got a record 12 gruppo coming and would like to implement this fix from the get-go
Yes, if you are stuck with a BSA BB it's not all bad. You can do exactly what you say; use our "loctite" method in the BSA or Italian cups in place of any grease. And yes, in this case you must use the wave washer to maintain the allowance Campy builds into their threaded cup UT BB's.
@@BBInfinite Thanks very much for the info! In case you want to remove the cransket after using the Loctite agent, what's the best way you recommend to do so?
@@shrkys4 Loosen the bolt and wiggle the arms. They'll come right out. If the NDS bearing pulls away from the arm and remains in the bore, tap it out with a drift.
@@shrkys4did it work?
@@adrenaline33867 Yes sir it did! it's been silent for about 6k now, I might do a clean and re-lube maintenance as I haven't touched it in some time, but yes, it has been silent!
How difficult is it to remove the crankset after been glued with the loctite ? I decide to do the following. Just put a bit of grease as usual on the drive side. Completly degrase the cup /washer and outside of the bearing on the non-drive side. Put a light coat of silicone in close the bottom of the cup. Reassemble the crank. The idea is that the wave washer and bearing will push the silicone at the bottom of the cup and it will solidify there. The washer/bearing will then rest against the silicon and wont move. Did a 25 km ride next day and no more creaking. Dissasembly should not be difficult. Time will tell if this is a valid solution.
It's not difficult. Remove fixing bolt. Wiggle arms out. The NDS bearing may stay in the bb because it's not a tight fit between the crank and the bearing, and no snap ring like on the DS, so you may pull the naked arm out. Then use a drift to tap the NDS bearing out the bottom bracket module VERY squarely. Don't cock it. I use a dense plastic drift that's 7/8", (22mm) to knock it out. You can substitute with a 7/8" hardwood dowel. Most of the time the bearing just comes out with the arm. Either way it's a straightforward process. From there it's just a denatured alcohol clean up and do the reinstallation according to our instructions.
Very useful. Thank you! Can you share any tricks for freeing the bolt that holds the spindle together? I have been using WD40 and a heat gun, but still cannot unscrew (counter clockwise) the bolt. Many thanks!
If it's a Super Record crank the bolt is left hand thread. If it's any other, Ekar, Record, Chorus, etc, it's right hand thread. Ensure you're attempting to loosen in the correct direction.
Maybe glueing the non-drive side is enough? Than it is easyer to dismount later on.
Do them both as shown. It's never hard to take apart. These are slip-fitted parts---bearing to bore---so it's no big deal. Remove fixing bolt, wiggle arms free. Done.
Ok,thx
Hey. I recently bought a bike (secondhand but it was as new maybe 600 km on the teller) with the Campa Ultra Record EPS group When I held my right foot down in freerun on my very first tour with the bike, I heard a very nasty noise coming from the cranck. I have been looking on the internet where this noise can come from and I came across your video. The bike has press fit bracket. If you glue the bearings into your BB bracket: how can you ever get them out of your bike again? Thanks for a reply.
Removal is easy. Remove the fixing bolt and wiggle the arms free. That simple. Clean up with denatured alcohol.
Why do you not make shims to take up the gap? Then then person installing the cranks can just add the correct spacing shims. It's what I do.
Good for you. We're glad you found a way that pleases you. Our method is more user friendly and doesn't require multiple trial-and-error iterations that generally end in error for the uninitiated. Our method produces the results we want in the simplest way possible.
Serious question, once the retaining compound is applied, how do you get it apart next time to change the bearings?
Retaining compound is not a permanent. You simply need to knock the bb or bearings out.
Great video, I am subscribing ! Question: could the Campy wave washer be omitted and the retaining compound added to the Ultra Torque BB .
If you have a Campy manufactured UT bb, you can use the loctite-the-bearings method BUT you still have to use the wave washer because it needs to be there to set the spacing. Once the loctite sets up the wave washer will have no influence anyway.
@@BBInfiniteow do I then set this spacing with a BBinfinite BB where I don’t have the wave washer?
@@hallodidldu Our Campy UT models do not use a wave washer. Because we use a 1pc, hub style bb, we are in control of the spacing, and are able to make it perfect without the clip or wave washer. Campy has a great crank design, but always had a bad BB design that made the crank look bad. We solved the problems, most of which stemmed from the wave washer.
@@BBInfinite I thought I understood but in your video you show that also with your BB there is a play. Therefore my question, how do I adjust the crank without the wave washer concerning the play in your BBs?
@@hallodidldu Check out our installation instructions, www.bbinfinite.net/Service/CampagnoloInstructions.pdf
What model BB should I order for Colnago 68mm bottom bracket?
68? not 70mm?
What about shiming and eliminating the play with teflon shims of 0.2 0.5 mm thickness?
Certainly, if you can find shims with a 25mm ID and a sub-37mm OD in increments down to more like 0.02mm thick, or less than a thou of an inch. 0.2mm and and 0.5mm would be too thick to dial in the fit to eliminate all but about 0.02mm of axial play. 0.02-0.03mm of axial thrust would be max. They'd need to be stainless because plastic this thin would lack the necessary structure. We spec the retaining compound because all you do is bolt things together and leave it for a bit and it's done. Shimming requires not just the shims, but some trial and error mocking up.
This is what I did (using teflon shims of .25mm thickness on each side - in addition to the retaining compound). It has worked great so far (~1,000 miles). Spin is great for a Campy. If anything it probably needs a little more axial play (shims in the .15mm - .18mm would probably work best. I tested some .13mm shims and felt there was too much axial play). It used to be the case that you could get any size of shim through McMaster-Carr (custom made to order - not sure if this is still an option). It cost a pretty penny though. I've done this for some (auto) racing transmissions and it can be upwards of $50 - $75 for a single (metal) shim (I agree, metal would be better at this thickness). I like the retaining compound route....but for me the shims added "insurance" to the "system".
As far as I know the wave washer is also there to preload the bearing. How is that done with your BB? Damn I was so close to ordering one your bottom bracket shells (out of the pure joy of precision machining) until I saw this video.
I'm glad you commented because we believe the concept of preload is widely misunderstood. Campy BB's use 6805N radial contact bearings, which are self aligning by nature. Bearings this size (considered "miniature") need no preload, unlike much larger (over 100mm in diameter and up) radial contact bearings which do require preload due to other factors that need no discussion here. In fact, preload accelerates wear and prevents free movement of the rotating assembly. The proper setup for tandem radial contact bearings is to have a bushing/sleeve between the inner races to prevent angular loading from internally misaligning the rotating assemblies from their static components. With Campy UT set ups this is accomplished by pressing the bearings onto the spindle (rotating assembly) while the outer races are static. So you see the problem now? If the outer races are floating around in greased bores with a spring (wave washer), this allows the bearings to suffer constant internal misalignments with each pedal stroke. This is why we bond the outer races in with Loctite/Vibratite, so they can't move around to cause misalignments and that classic Campy creak. It's not glue, so when you want to take it apart it comes apart, but won't unless you want it to.
Angular contact bearings require preload because without it the inner and outer races fall away from one another. This type of bearing cannot be used with a Campy UT crank without a shim setup which few people would ever set up correctly.
Campy didn't use a wave washer to add preload, they did it because UltraTorque was designed around threaded cups. UT cranks, once bolted together are a fixed width. The fixed width means that Campy had to cheat the spindle a little wider to compensate for the unknowable final width of the BB shell due to variances in manufacturing and the reality of facing by shops. They had no way of knowing what the final bearings spacing would be. By making the crank wider they ensured it would work out of the box even if the threaded frame BB shell was wider or narrower than is optimal. This left the need to take up the space allowance for this variability, and so they opted to use a wave washer to take it up. We at BBi are in control of the bearing spacing because our BB's for UT are one-piece. We only have to allow for a small variance in crank manufacturing, about 0.005". This tiny allowance would allow the crank to move axially, and so we have the end user bond the outer race in. The results are perfectly aligned inner and outer races with no internal misalignments.
Thank you very much for your detailed answer!@@BBInfinite I guess it makes sense, didnt know that bit about radial contact bearings not requiring preload. Never stop learning! Although all of the youtube engineers always stress how important correct preload on wheelset hubs (not talking about shimano/campy cup&cone) is... The part where you lost me again is on the one hand with the "floating around in greased bores" (probably that´s very much frameset dependent but I just checked mine and there is no perceivable side-to-side-movement at all), on the other hand with the 0.005". If that is the tolerance you have to allow for year-to-year variation, I dont really get why it looks more like a 0.05 movement in the video. And the extra hand: if you fix the outer races in the cup, and the inner races are fixed on the spindle, and the hub shell is a bit wider than the spindle (and the crank therefore has some side-to-side play or clearanace), the bearings are stopping this movement and loaded laterally. Are they designed to do this?
@@aelaeks If your bike is set up with campy brand cups with their setup in place, with wave washer, bores greased, all that. Place your palm on the nds crank arm over the spindle. Brace the frame with your free hand. Push inward. The crank will move axially as you compress the wave washer. Do this and get back to me.
If the system has a spring in it, the system will "float". Rarely would you ever compress the wave washer fully while just pedaling, that's not the point of the above exercise. What it shows you is that there are tiny micro movements which occur as you ride. This is why UT crank eventually creak once the grease washes out. The grease is merely masking the problems.
I happened to catch a video put out by Loctite that brings up a concern. Sheer forces. The retaining compound supposedly does a good job with rotational forces but not the sheer forces. Isn't that side to side play the sheer force? czcams.com/video/Xgn5lEHDE5w/video.html
Its sad that I paid $30K for 2 Colnago bikes with campag and the engineering is faulty. Never again
This is a serious design flaw in an insanely expensive crankset. We literally are putting "glue" in a $900 crankset. Let that sink in for a second. If you bought a new Porsche 911, which is roughly 3-5x more than the average car costs would you be expected to jerry-rig it to work? NEVER. What about when you service the bearings? You would need to rip open some lock-tight? There must be a better way
Think of it this way; instead of grease, just put loctite on it and do the exact same steps. It's all the same steps. Just exchange the substances.
@@BBInfinite Hey. I recently bought a bike (secondhand but it was as new maybe 600 km on the teller) with the Campa Ultra Record EPS group When I held my right foot down in freerun on my very first tour with the bike, I heard a very nasty noise coming from the cranck. I have been looking on the internet where this noise can come from and I came across your video. The bike has press fit bracket. If you glue the bearings into your BB bracket: how can you ever get them out of your bike again? Thanks for a reply.
@@thepetvet4u60 I'm installing a V4 power unit on a bike equipped with super record EPS 12 . Should remove the BB cupset and the cupset were previously pressed with one of these loctite. And its a mess to to remove these cupsets
Totally wrong there should be a clip on the drive side that stops side play.
The Campy design is bad. Why perpetuate it?