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An afternoon with MBL's Jürgen Reis
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2019
- [Part 1 of 2]
MBL's chief engineer Jürgen Reis introduces us to the omni-directional 101 Radialstrahler loudspeaker before discussing what measurements do and don't tell him when designing the German manufacturer's Reference power amplifiers and pre-amplifier.
Part 2: • More from MBL's Jürgen...
More info: www.mbl.de/?lang=en
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Another fascinating point of view. Keep these coming. As an engineer, I would like to ask Jurgen if he ever measures the impulse response of his products and model circuits? I have a fantasy that impulse response has much to do with "what it sounds like." Almost all of the measurements we commonly take are relatively steady state, that is not measuring the response to a one-time impulse of varying rise time and duration. While impulses don't occur so much in nature, they tell us much about what amplifiers and reproducers do with the signals they are fed.
My curiosity (and the mathematics) indicates that this type of measurement MIGHT shed additional light as to why things 'sound different' when they measure the same. Impulse response tells us much about rise time, ringing, phase angles, latency, sustain, and recovery of a waveform -- all of which cannot be measured or even observed with approximately steady state techniques. The technique MIGHT shed light on the effects Jurgen mentions of component types. And it's something that can be done with each stage, chained combinations, and even the full reproduction system, end to end.
Thanks for these interviews. These are not PR guys, and that is important.
P.S. I can only imagine what enormous impact the listening room has on an omnidirectional speaker.
(Sorry for the length of this.)
After more than 30 years experience in amplifier design i totally agree to Mr. Reis: the standard measurements can't tell you the absolute soundquality of any product. Not all changes show up in different measuring results. Thanks John and Jürgen for your passion to music!
Both Jurgen Reis interview were brilliant John. I like very much when talented and influencing engineers are sharing their knowledge, ideas and ars poetica.
I didn't know you were allowed to touch the driver petals until I saw Jurgen do it. 😂
I listened to these at Axpona last year and was blown away. I now understand what holographic imaging means.
Yes, I heard them many years ago when they first hit the market and they sounded incredible. The only thing I wasn't able to do was listen to a wide variety of music. They were playing a jazz quartet in a live setting,. But I don't know how well they do rock music. Classical they probably do well.
I heard them in Tampa, FL at our first audio show a few weeks ago and was blown away with the imaging and depth. Should NOT have listened to them on the first day as it spoiled me for everything else that weekend! ;-)
David Arnold I have heard these and the bigger ones in a large room at UK Hi-fI show. Yes they are magic . I seriously thought it was a real piano playing when I first walked in the room I could see the singer mentally I was not like listening to a stereo, it was like virtual reality
The gold trim makes it all look very prestigious, like a Lexus from 1990.
FASCINATION!
Thanks for sharing!!
Quarter million for the speakers, yes. But you still need 4 power amps, which would cost another $200k if you go for the 9011 ;) so more like half a million for the entire 101 extreme system.
But still - absolutely amazing. Ive actually never listened to their system even tho I live in Berlin too. I would love to take a listen to the extreme setup. Must be an absolutely fantastic experience.
Been looking at MBL 101 for a long time now, but i got a question: Will the MBL 101 E work with the naim 500 amp/preamp set up??
Great products! Love my MBL!
I wish I can afford it, they are the Best!
Nice interview John!
I saw video of the MBL at some audio convention (? 2016?…it’s on CZcams),…They were spinning Anne Bisson on R2R …and Anne was in the room, literally in awe, claiming she’d never heard her music in such an amazing display. I became an instant fan and am now in trouble-land vacillating between MBL or Wilson Audio as a major purchase.
mbl vs. Wilson?
Wow. Two entirely different sounds.
If it was truly a toss up I'd suggest your room and application would determine which one.
Easy solution; get both
saw the same video. It was United Home Audio R2R with a $600 recording. She said that the MBL sounded like her own studio live recording of the album. I urge you to watch the 1 million dollar system on youtube which consists of both United Home Audio R2R and MBL 101 speakers. Truly amazing stuff.
So are the amps internally ‘tuned’? Or tone controlled and set?
I am curious about that point about the types of componets such as the type of resistors that you use. Can anyone explain or point me to a change that that can make to a sound? I am making something myself at home and would use an advice on the type of component as I am unable to find a comment that asked a similar thing before. Thanks.
You posted this a crazy long time ago so idk if you were still interested in an answer. Carbon and carbon film resistors inject noise into the system, usually it’s a hiss that won’t go away. They also drift over time and they do not have a tight tolerance (value). Metal films on the other hand do not add any noise and can be made with a tolerance down to 1%.
Is this BBC study Jürgen mentions at ca 7:00 on the frequency content publicly available?
Will they make you wiggle your bottom and click your fingers?
It is interesting/strange to see omnidirectional speaker toe-in ...
Might have to do with the ports.
Why a 360 degree speaker when you only listen from one direction? Nonetheless, very cool looking stuff!
Michael assuming trying to replicate an acoustic instrument
Why omni, when you only listen out front?
Really good question
Short answer; manufacturers have their own approach to a pleasing experience, this is mbl's (they're not the first to offer an omni design, but likely the best).
An omni sound sources can create an incredibly believable 3d stereo image.
Typical box speakers radiate in 360 degrees, except they don't do it uniformly by frequency.
Typically speakers radiate low bass evenly into all directions. This is due to the radiating surfaces (and the speaker itself), are small compared to the low bass wavelength.
Higher in frequency, output becomes more directional, beaming the sound again because the radiators size relative to the smaller wavelengths of the higher frequencies.
Pocket protector geeks that study such things consider "uniform directivity independent of frequency", theoretically ideal. This constant directivity, or controlled directivity, isn't just for omni designs. It's most often found in pro audio designs.
Legendary D.B. Keele brought us Constant Directivity in the 70s. Now he's developed CBT, that has uniform output off axis, but also SPL output on axis independent of listening DISTANCE!
It's amazing and sounds great.
I participated in a private shootout blind comparison between 4 loudspeaker design greats. Keele's CBT design by Selah held it's own up against Tom Danley's Synergy, Mark Seaton's Catalyst, and Jeff Permanian's Noesis.
Yes, the Selah CBT faired very well up against the significantly bigger and more powerful heavyweights.
I know... ridiculously way off topic, and tl:dr... I know,
...but for those interested here's the loudspeaker shootout;
www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1512849-january-18th-loudspeaker-gtg-results-thread.html
With any speakers you hear the speakers and the room no matter where you listen. A speaker's radiation pattern affects how it interacts with the room and has a huge effect on how we perceive the sound. Omnidirectional speakers radiate sound evenly in every direction and interact with the room the way many instruments would. They producd a very realistic and coherent sound that other speakers don't.
Clever guy
He can hear the difference if the potentiometer has plastic components or carbon.
How does he do that. This must be an Unbelievable revealing system or he wear a t-shirt with a big S underneath.
🤪 Say what !!
Goed interview John
A similar philosophy to Andrew Jones, and Bill Duddleston.
He talks just like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Ja.
Nice video. Very interesting speaker design...
Nice video, thx a lot ...... I really appreciate all the content you make and please continue doing stuff like this :-)
but I wonder why Jürgen claim that it’s face coherent while I beleive it is obviously not... looking at the step response (figure 6.) from a measurement of another product, it is clearly not the case www.stereophile.com/content/mbl-radialstrahler-101e-mkii-loudspeaker-measurements
But I guess amazing speakers....
John if you had this Mbl gear permanently in your home you would never be talking about Shit sorry Schitt audio ever again🤣
I absolutely would! Very, very few manufacturers can match Schiit on value for money.
@@DarkoAudio Fair enough.
r a d i a l s t r a h l e r
Thanks this was very interesting. Those speakers are particularly interesting. There's a good video here on CZcams about how they are made.
czcams.com/video/RrNOq41LGjs/video.html
nah !!!