Which Is Better? Mouse & Keyboard OR Controller (ULTIMATE DEBATE)
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- čas přidán 20. 01. 2024
- Which is better mouse & keyboard or controller? Today we settle this debate once and for all and breakdown which is truly the better input.
In today's debate we had @Leamonhead @Draynilla @hollow_o @ChiefGuapee @Dazs @VioletLex
Timestamps:
01:11 initial thoughts everyone
11:35 impression farming
18:48 Controller VS MnK
23:36 Visual Clutter
27:48 Configs good or bad
33:14 Controller support
38:34 too many top players on controller
40:55 final thoughts
#apex #apexlegends
We covered in great detail the following topics - which is better mouse & keyboard or controller apex legends, which is better controller or mouse & keyboard, which is better controller or keyboard, keyboard or controller, apex legends controller vs keyboard, keyboard vs controller debate, which input is better?, which input is better on apex legends?, which input is better on apex, what's better mouse and keyboard or controller, apex mouse & keyboard vs controller, controller vs mouse & keyboard, and mouse & keyboard vs controller - Hry
1) Nerf aim assist to .2
2) Separate competitive inputs between MnK and Controller
that would ruin matchmaking gang
honestly i think they're so many mnk player waiting for a separate competitive that there will not be any matchmaking issues (many mnk players will come back to the game)
@@TRUEINGG
O.2 your smoking crack that's less than kbm
@@TRUEINGGthat would make matchmaking better
@@TRUEINGGif a game can't survive without input independent lobbies then it's already dead.
I just dont think people with controllers and MnK should ever be in the same lobbies while aim assist exists. Aim assist defeats the purpose of an FPS when some people get it and other don't. Configs are ridiculous, it is just straight up cheating
Yes but pc/mnk is like a lot better got alot more advantages. N .4 is still hella good n tape trafing on controller is gone now
@@2HYPED.if mnk is the higher ceiling input then just let it be instead of making controller better artificially by pumping aim assist into it.
@@joseandresjulienbarriere8786that’s a stupid take, Aim assist is 100% needed to some extent. Without AA it’s not even that Kbm have a higher skill ceiling KBM would have a higher damn bottom floor. There’s a difference between a nerf and making something almost unplayable. I’ve seen absolutely terrible terrible terrible controller players and I don’t want to imagine them without aa.
@@user-kb1xy7tr5h stupid is having an ai basically moving the crosshair for you. (And yes, I perfectly know how aim assist works, this is why I’m saying it). A new mnk player will always be worse than a new controller player, I’ve seen people with just a few hours of experience one clipping enemies…… that on mnk is unthinkable. But I’m ok with having it easier for new players what is not correct is that as a rule of thumb a roller player will always be better than an mnk player just because aa. I’ve played with controller bro, you basically just shoot in the right direction and the damage gets done, you don’t even have to aim, compensate and pay attention like you would have with mnk.
@@joseandresjulienbarriere8786 that on Mnk is unthinkable? I literally can do it lol. It took like an hour dude. Point and click while strafing bam recoil gone. It’s only idiots that struggle with learning. You seem to be ignoring why aa is a thing entirely a controller. Without aa controller is outright WORSE then mnk. Literally multiple joint aiming vs singular at that point.If you don’t like aa as a concept go play val.
i play alot of FPS games on pc and ps4 and for some reason it feels like aim assist on apex is alot stronger than other games, plus going from controller to MnK made my k/d really drop.
i went from shooting in his general direction on controller to actually having to really aim on MnK
I agree, give us option for crossplay, or buff MnK so we would have same amount of recoil, aim punch, screen shake, and we still would have to deal with visual clutter.
Lemonhead was spot-on with the fatigue. I play controller and MNK and 100% agree with what he said. I get tired much quicker when using MNK. On controller, I can be awake for 24+ hrs and still perform pretty well on any game I play.
Shout-out father Hollow
Casual mnk player here who just changed to controller. Controller is just much better and easier when you aren’t that good on mnk, I changed because I was getting frustrated about losing majority of close range “need to win” fights. I’m still not good but have a decent chance of doing well in close encounters now.
That’s the thing. I have over 1k hours on apex plus another 1k on other fps games. I have trained just to be good at it and I’m coming into 1v1 with controller players who obliterate me because of aim assist, and I can notice is that…. R99 shots are just to hard to hit with mnk, specially if I’m moving around.
@@joseandresjulienbarriere8786the r9, though nerfed, is still a monster with controller. When strafing and with the .4-.6 aim assist the r9 doesn't move. There is no need to control recoil because you will stay on target regardless. I got melted by it yesterday and couldn't do anything on MNK with it, so I plugged in my controller and it's a monster. It's so easy to 1 clip with. And since the dps is so fast, it's near instant on the other player's screen. Every gun within 20 meters becomes the "insta deleter" if you know how to abuse the aim assist (strafe and don't overcorrect, barely use the right stick).
The hero we all needed.
Great vid
Never played controller as much as mnk. I was supreme master guardian at best in CS and masters in apex legends with mnk. I spent hundreds of hrs in kovaaks. I got to that level. Then roller caught my attention. I would say about 5k hrs on fps games total. 3k recorded on my steam. I have to mention that i played a lot of rollers when i was a kid in halo and what not. Then i was like why not just try it for a week. I took my wack ass ps4 controller that costs like 30 dollars. Without bumpers or anything, just learned how to play with claw grip on my controller. Took me like 2-3 days to make it feel good. OFc not as smooth and it still feels a bit weird at times, but very consistent with the aim assist. . It was disgustingly weird at first, but every kill i got i felt the potential for roller just better and better. Now i play with a 30 dollar roller and i almost feel like i am as good as i was in apex a few years ago when i played on mnk. We already know people switch cause its better, but to be able to change a input, a 30 dollar roller play for 2 days to almost be as good as i was on mnk when i played for several thousand of hrs. That is literally just crazy, mnk vs rolller shouldnt even be a thing, best argument ive heard. Impossible to balance two different inputs especially when aim assist aims for you and just corrects the human mistakes/errors people do like over aim over shoot. The consistency is out of this world. This conversation ends when a roller player can just play as good as a guy that has played the game for several thousand hrs. Like...
I use Kbm for any fps games especially competitive but for some single player games or driving games using a controller is chill
If m&k is the higher skill ceiling then m&k should be the superior input. It does not make sense that a pro player with 5000 hours on an uncap/ceiling input gets obliterated by a controller player with 100 hours into the game… that is just stupid! I’m not pro player but I like to train and get better, I’ve expended tons of hours on kovaks and the firing range just practicing and I just get obliterated without a chance and it feels sad and frustrating because I know the other person is not better than me, it just feels like he is cheating, I’m sorry but that is what it feels like.
If you don’t want to nerf aimassit, which you should, Just let me play on m&k lobbies PLEASE 🙏🏻
Just because you have a shit ton of hours into a game it doesnt mean you can be undefeated, thats like saying the number 1 player in the world cant lose because he is the best, everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes you get defeated because you made a mistake, AA does not have such a big impact, if you arent good it isnt going to be good, you NEED to be good for it to have a positive effect
@@benja_324 1.0 aim assist is aim lock. you objectively do not have to be good to take advantage of .4-.6 of your tracking being done by a program with 0 ms response time. like you literally have to be out of touch with reality or lying to yourself to not understand that.
@@ApexChrisHansen dude, i can tell you from my own experience that aim assist does not accurately track enemies for you, it pulls in their direction but thats it, you cant depend purely on aim assist to be good, you NEED skill. It happens a lot to me that when the enemies start strafing left to right i miss almost all my shots, because i need to practice my tracking skills, if it were true that anybody can just be good due to aim assist being op then we wouldnt have bad controller players and I wouldnt miss up close. Please use a controller once and see for yourself, it will not be as strong as everyone makes it to be
@@benja_324 the fact that you just said “it doesn’t track for you” and “it moves in their direction” is literally all I need to say. Are you incapable of accepting an objective fact if it hurts your ego?
@@benja_324 your own skewed experience doesnt make the way the game is coded go away lmao
Mnk and controller should never be in the same lobby as for competitive there is no competitive integrity when you have 2 completely separate inputs it’s quite a simple soloution input matchmaking and separate comp for each input problem solved . Remember how aim assist was never an issue until crossplay Became a thing … funny that huh
I’m switching back to controller from mnk since I’m a truck driver and can’t set everything up properly and let me tell you this is hard asffff I used to have godly controller aim back in the day even in games with no aim assist like r6 siege but now I’m a potato🥲😂
Hot take from in mnk player: configs are good, controllers should be able to tap strafe but only in the direction they look. This might force players to turn up their sens, which i believe high sens roller is not over powered.
Also, mnk on apex is way harder than any other game.
This is one take I don't hate. Not my style tho
@@athan1281 tracking is harder than flicking. That’s why
What is high sens?
@@frostylol-zn9vg for me I think 6 and up is high sens on roller.
I think that Apex needs to push a new meta, i think having movement legends and focusing on close range battles SHOULD BE ONE TYPE OF PLAY-STYLE,
UNFORTUNATELY i think it dominates 95% of the game and theres basically nothing to do but get some shots or just BUM RUSH a squad and zip around shooting everyone at point blank range. Itd be so much better if ranged battles held more weight
There is no debate. All the pros have played thousands if not tens of thousands of MNK games, from cs, ow, fortnite, you name it. They played controller for a couple hundred and decided to make a complete swap.
i have about 300-400 hours on console and about 100 hours on pc (crossprog moment) so i have a good amount of time on both. i honestly prefer m&k because i like the movement SO much more. aim is much easier on controller though (i play warzone on controller)
One way to balance MnK and controller would be to remove almost all muzzle flash from MnK input players. This is a major reason why controller is so strong up close, muzzle flash doesn't effect the tracking of a controller player at all...
I plan OW2 9n PC with a wiimote. Best way to play it undoubtedly.
I thought of a way to fix the aim assist issue as a stress test system:
- Lower the aim assist value to 0.2
- Have something that detects whether or not a player is on controller (should be easy because aim assist only kicks in on controller) and the opposite to happen on mnk
^ stock these numbers as 1v1s only in controller vs mnk fights
- See how many of these fights are won by each over a period and I mean every single one (even the dumb 3rd parties)
This would let them balance aim assist and also still keep it in the game
Visual clutter and overall visibility in apex HAS to change, we need much more advanced visual settings, apex is very visualy straining and it does not even have a contrast slider, only brightness.
Give us the option to tone down effects on bullet hits, explosions, shield effects exetera. Also we need a fix for crosshair, wich is not fixed to the centre of the screen and is very confusing.
If Lex says "I feel like" one more time im going to go insane
rotational aa 0ms reaction to strafes, aim punch, screen clutter, bullet slow, cfgs are all the main things that hinder mnk from being the preferred input. take away cfgs to have "mnk movement", add some delay to rotational so the human has to react to stay locked in target, remove bullet slow so the stuck in mud free one clips become way less, remove punch and clutter. I think that will be as close to balanced as we can get and possibly see a climb in more mnk players again.
This was supposed to be a conversation about Input, but went to a conversation about feelings pretty fast 💀, and it kinda sucks because there's so much to say and none of it was really talk about.
It is sad the state the game has come to so yeah I think it’s good for it to become a conversation about feelings
Bruh, what? Lmao. They brought up many valid points. Just because they used the words "I feel" doesn't mean that their points aren't valid. People often use "I feel" instead of "I think," but use them interchangeably. Would your opinions change if they said "I think" instead? If so, you weren't listening to what was being brought up.
As a lifetime mnk player since the dialup days, I never ever ever ever wanted to have "crossplay" or controllers in my lobbies ever. EVER. Elitism sure, I don't care. PC master race. I'll take 10 min. queues over ever having to deal with controller players and their down syndrome aimbot.
I thought it was going to be a good thing and since mnk is the better input I never thought the were going to pump controller with the aim assist like this.
It is just dad the state of the game right now
@@joseandresjulienbarriere8786dude. You’re crying hard in these comments because of your lack of skill. If aim assist was broken. Everyone would be on roller. Statistically 60% of the player base is on roller. The majority of players exist on console. The only reason so many pros complain about aim assist is due to the fact that the majority of the player base is casual and can’t aim for shi. Y’all are mad you can’t farm Timmy easily compared to a fast paced shooter like cod. But sure, let’s blame aim assist instead of hitting the nail on the head.
@@pubplays368 where did you get that 60%? I am really interested on knowing. Because I’ve seen 75 to 80 of the actual player base been on controller.
And you can keep up your whining all you want but if you want to test my skill let’s jump and have a 1v1 inside Bangalore’s smoke…..
And no, neither I have Timmy’s skill neither the time to get as good as him. That’s his job. I do not want to grind 50 hours a week to be able to keep up with your lack of skills and overuse of software.
@@joseandresjulienbarriere8786 you can find player inputs on steam charts and add consoles player count to get a percentage. Reading doesn’t seem to be your strong suit so I’ll dumb it down for you. Timmy in this context means casual player. Do you realize the average kd in apex is 0.6? If the average kd is .6 and 60% of the player base is on roller. What do you think would happen if you nerfed reticle friction? They would all quit. The game would die. You also seem to think aim assist aims for you. Reticle friction slows down the reticle over targets. Nothing about it aims for you. And yeah we can 1v1 all day. I’m a 6.91 kd player with over 100k kills on rev. I’m a hybrid player who will smoke you on mnk or controller. You’ll never catch me crying about nerfs due to a lack of skill. That’s for the crybaby’s.
@@pubplays368 Timmy is the most watched streamer on apex so you should reconsider your word choices.
They should remove aim assist and allow them to have movement
What about scripts, the full hand movement that's significantly quicker and more accurate? What about tap strafing?
@@daytondavis1860I don’t care really. The frustration comes from aim assist not neo strafing, I die to that once every 100 games… anyways, obviously scripts should be remove. Just let controller tap strafe without scripts. Let them have movement and low the aim assist to .1 so level 10 lifelines don’t one clipped me
No rotational aim assist for both Controller and M&K, 35% AA and 200ms delay of AA, Controller ability to loot by using D pad
people buy a pc, CHOOSE to play controller, and are somehow entitled to aim assist. console players still get aim assist when they turn crossplay off. how are both of those things "about fairness" ? its about retaining lazy/untalented players plain and simple.
Make mnk accessible on console and turn off aa if you use it
MnK and roller on console are night and date. Roller on pc with config files is unfair and cheating.
Controller in console y harder than controller on pc, on console you only have the AA , you don't have things like tap strafe.
Its crazy to me that the controller is not being innovated at all. If you have to give players training wheels to use the input, then its just a bad input. I really thought gyro aim on controller would have been standard by now. Would have been no need for aim assist.
gotta keep em separated
If AA went away people wouldn't be bad at the game thwy would just be completely out moved by players that can move (AND AIM) 2x faster 99% of the time
Grab a controller play the game the game and turn off aim assist. Also that use to be a thing back before aim assist the worst kbm is no diff the best roller players
Drumbum 100% correct
Side note. Just have ranked via input one season. 2 different pred pools, one sticks, one keys. Problem solved.
controller vs mnk is like bikes vs cars.. don't hate cars if they have abs dsc and 4 wheels... pros and cons all the way... so in my opinion this topic is redundant
configs are such a broad spectrum, neo strafing, auto super glides etc are definitely cheating imo, but binding a simple tap strafe so you can slide and jump round a corner while you heal is fine, as A. you have to give up another bind to do it (unless you have paddles) and B. you are still doing the each individual input yourself
Like, they can’t be complaining about tab strafing while aim assists exists. Hey cool, m&k players pls go spent 5hrs learning a movement tech while I‘m still one magging you cause aim assist exists
Its not that hard. Just separate the lobbys. MnK and Roller should not play together. Simple as that.
first of all none of these people play only on controller so the debate is already biased, also quit complaining about aim assist and plug a controller into your pc, recoil control is significantly easier on m & k as well.
The fact that a competitive game can take itself seriously and allow an input that requires a fucking handicap is insane. Get this controller trash out of my shooters, please. Make skill great again.
I play apex purely for the movement It’s the way it should be played. Strategy and super aim goes against the essence of the game. Strategy is a statistical metric why would you play a game that is pure statistics? That basically makes the game a game of who can be more of a robot. And a game is suppose to be fun and unpredictable at its core. It makes the point of it being a game obsolete. Mouse and keyboard is OP compared to controller just accept the facts.
Movement??
Rainbow
Gears
Condemned
Bf3
Literally no aim assist
Check history the 1st and only fps games were all m&k only 🤔🤔but whatever what do i know 🤷🏾♂️
I'm just here for the comments section.
My opinion, Womp Womp just use controller to win.
Okay I have played on both inputs controller is Easier to use and aim assist only helps with smgs and configures shouldnt be a thing and controller aim assist isn't over powered m and k let's you do more and you use the input you want so stop complaining controller player can't do m and k movement and m and k is more fun
Fortnite balanced the inputs
Controllers should not be able to be used on PC, allow cross play to be enabled or not. If you use a controller you have to be on a console and don't get all the advantages of configs and higher rez ect. Then if you don't want to play against other inputs then turn cross play off. I'm controller on PS5, play 90% of my games in PC lobbies with my buddies on PC. When I only play with other console players the games are much easier. I chose to go into the PC lobbies to play with my friends, but also to get better. That is a tell tale sign that controller on console is not OP. We get nerfed in every aspect of the game except close range hip fire fights. Controller on PC is a whole different story, that should not be allowed. Also, FPS were created for controllers on gaming consoles.
Eyyyy
M&K is better but I’m not out here competing in tournaments nor do I care to sweat my ass off for kills, controller is the best way to play if you just want to chill and play
Controller is better.
controller is smooth? bullshit u have aim assis doing 90% of the work...
5:12 like im sick of MNK crying like bro look at wtf hes doingggggg you cant do thaton roller like ur jst salty
Go pick up a mouse and keyboard and do it then. You won't because you can't. The difference is you have to put lots and lots of time in range just to get a feel for it. After that you have to spend intense hours of trying to do it in the game while being shot at and chased by 3 or 2 people. You can still use "and won't get banned for it" third party software to get controller cfgs for perfect strafes still?
dude aim assist on this game is too much? guess u haven't played warzone.
Facts lol
It’s 2x worse, Apex Aim Assist is doable
At least cod is always been a console game. Apex legends had more mnk players on the higher ranks at the beginning
Pro controller players turn aim assist off because it fucks up aim.
trust me, it's a lot harder to play on controller😂
No they don't lol
No they do not bro, no pro alive has ever done that
That's because to you anyone who plays anything other than fortnight could never be called a Pro
@@Kryptonicx7x Try RainbowSix where there is NO AA
@Kryptonicx7x put some respect on Jynxzi bro
Bottom line, I play with a controller because 1) I’ve used them my entire life and 2) it’s more comfortable. All I hear from Kbm players is whining, they act like they have to use kbm.
If m&k is the higher skill ceiling then m&k should be the superior input. It does not make sense that a pro player with 5000 hours on an uncap/ceiling input gets obliterated by a controller player with 100 hours into the game… that is just stupid! I’m not pro player but I like to train and get better, I’ve expended tons of hours on kovaks and the firing range just practicing and I just get obliterated without a chance and it feels sad and frustrating because I know the other person is not better than me, it just feels like he is cheating, I’m sorry but that is what it feels like.
If they don’t want to nerf aimassit, which they should, Just let me play on m&k lobbies that’s it.
And I don’t play with controller because I just don’t enjoy it, I like dark souls, fighting games, assassins creed on controller, but fps just does not make sense to me, I’ve used mnk all my life. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve tried it, but I just don’t have fun.
If its so easy to use a controller, stfu and use a controller lmao, but you wont. I've used both. Controller is so clunky and shitty. The only positive is a little bit of aim assist.
And perfect tracking through muzzle flash. I think the best way to balance the game is to remove 80-90% of muzzle flash for MnK players.
BTW they're not arguing that the controller is easier, they're arguing that it has some advantages that are controlled not by a human but by the CPU.
This guy is the worst interviewer 😂
Aim assist isn't as strong on pc as these guys are making out
I need to let TSM know that some random no name in the crowd has it figured out.
It should still be half of that on both pc and console. And now, why is it different on console and pc? It makes no sense
1) MNK mad it can be matched.
2) MNk still mad it can be matched.
3) Talk to reg players not Content Creators, all they do is complain from My content is sucking stand point
Bro diamond and up lobbies are flooded with rollers on pc. MNK players have watched pro MNK players swap off of MNK and win because rollers are so overtuned.
More than MNK guys complaining there are complete shitters tying their ego up with their input and they get mad defensive because one line of code can completely destroy their "Skill".
@@tehtehkhantengames8580 idc for ranked...
reg players hardly have a gauge for why its balanced or not. higher skill on both inputs will say pretty much exactly what was all stated here.
A bunch of cry baby kb&m players most are hacking anyway
That’s why you should have your own servers 😊