Top 10 Questions: Structural Adhesives
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Shawn Collins, 3M Senior Technical Services Engineer, answers your top 10 adhesives questions.
1: How are 07333, 08115 and 08116 different? (00:28)
One’s a structural adhesive, two are panel bonding adhesives. Here’s how they’re similar. All three are epoxies that handle heat well. All contain glass beads to guarantees a minimum bond line thickness. And all have corrosion inhibitors.
But there are important differences. Structural adhesives should be used only where the manufacturer says to. Panel bonding adhesives are used for outer body panels, not on structural panels (except for the 08115 on the Ford F-150). Always follow the OEM recommendations.
2: When do I use 08115 vs. 08116? (04:15)
08116 was designed to meet General Motors and Chrysler specifications for mode of failure. They wanted cohesive failure for better corrosion protection. Follow the OEM recommendations for when to use, but know:
• Chrysler wants 08116 used for all its bonding operations.
• General Motors specifies 08116 only for door skin bonding operations - for all other bonding operations, GM recommends the structural adhesive.
3: Why do we need to equalize and purge the cartridge? (05:58)
To get a good flow of material, you need to remove air pockets from the plungers in the cartridges and pull out anything that’s dried up inside the ports on the cartridge. Then you have to purge some material out after you’ve equalized the cartridge so it mixes thoroughly and cures properly.
4: Do I have to remove the e-coat or galvanized coatings? (09:19)
Follow OEM recommendations. Many OEMs defer to the adhesive maker’s instructions. Always track down and follow the proper instructions.
5: Can I use heat to force cure? (11:25)
Yes. The epoxy chemistry handles heat very well. Always observe the max temperatures. We recommend about 150 degrees for 40 minutes for close to a full cure.
6: Can I refrigerate the product to slow down the cure? (12:23)
Yes, but we recommend something less aggressive like an air-conditioned room. Watch how cold it gets, it shouldn’t freeze. It will thicken as it cools, so be sure not to force it out too hard or it may not mix thoroughly.
7: What do I do when I see equivalence in a repair procedure? (13:11)
A procedure may list a product, then say “or equivalent.” This is tricky. It’s very difficult to know if another product is an exact equivalent. To avoid any liability issues, we recommend always using the product listed.
8: Why do we weld bond? (14:04)
There are lots of benefits:
• The adhesive prevents corrosion by completely sealing the joint
• With impact-resistant structural adhesives, the part will collapse more predictably and absorb energy as it collapses
• The adhesive gives a continuous bond for great lap shear strength
• The weld prevents the adhesive from peeling
9: Can I weld through cured adhesive? (15:16)
3M does not recommend welding through the adhesive after it’s cured. It’s important to finish welding within the work time on the adhesive cartridge. The liquid adhesive helps with conductivity, but once it cures, it acts as an insulator and inhibits conductivity.
10: How do I keep my bonded flanges from corroding? (16:03)
Sometimes during a panel replacement you might lose some of the corrosion-resistant adhesive. Insurance against this is to follow all bonding operations with Cavity Wax Plus, making sure to get into any areas that might be exposed.
Bonus: How long will a cartridge last after it’s opened? (17:25)
Sometimes people throw away a cartridge that’s only been used once, even if it’s half full or more, because they think it’s no good. Not true. If you leave the nozzle on and let it harden and seal the cartridge, it should last close to the stated shelf life.
Important note:
There are of course many factors and variables that can affect an individual repair, so the technician and repair facility need to evaluate each specific application and repair process, including relevant vehicle, part and OEM guidelines, and determine what is appropriate for that repair.
Products used in this video:
3M™ Impact Resistant Structural Adhesive 07333
www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-u...
3M™ Panel Bonding Adhesive 08115 & 08116
www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-u...
For more advanced tutorials, check out 3M Collision Repair Academy:
www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision...
You’ll find courses that will expand your knowledge, deliver practical procedures you can use right away, and in many cases earn you I-CAR credits.
Website: 3MCollision.com
Instagram: 3MCollision
Facebook: 3MCollision - Auta a dopravní prostředky
These explainer videos are super helpful especially to those of us non-professionals doing DIY projects in our garages who don't have access to trade reps. Really appreciate it!
08116 is amazing on this kit car I'm building.
The kit is normally assembled with rivets, but use some of that stuff and the rivets are just holding it together until it cures.
When you tap on one of the installed panels after it cures, it reverberates thru the whole car as if you just magically welded aluminum to steel.
Helpful video, about to panel bond a roof skin on my 62 C10.
Awesome Information Shawn.
Very informative and well explained, thks.
Great information in this video.
Simply excellent explanations. Great job. Thank you!
Thank you for your feedback! We're glad you found the explanation helpful.
I use 08115 on plastic door handles on toyotas. It works perfect and that way i dont have to paint a new door handle to match. I even take door handles apart that havent broke yet and fill around the thread inserts to beef them up. Its game over and they dont break ever after that.
Excellent
Which would fix polypropylene to fibreglass and how would it be prepared for paint?
Ok once installed if you ever have to do a repair how do you separate the panels if this has it
Very informative
do you have to purge when using again?
Can't concentrate to you due to loud background music
Can I use these products on aluminum materials?
I'm still assembling my fiberglass kit project, and I put one fender on last night. The thing is, it's 42° Fahrenheit in the shop.
I would guess that I should probably leave it clamped together for a few more days if possible over the recommended time?
Most products, paint and primers are best used at no cooler than 70°F room temperature. If working with metal, keep in mind the metal temperature is around 10° colder.
What's the tensile strength on your scotchweld 460?
Can I use 07333 on 66 VW beetle floor pan. Originally they were welded, but I m in process of restoring one and instead of spot welding I want to use adhesives.
I watched a video where this was done and explained why its okay. I used panel bond for a battery tray replacement on my 66 and liked the procedure. Its been two years, what did you do?
Can copper be epoxy coated?
On a rust replacement panel, how much overlap do you recommend? Also, can you go wrong using the structural (7333)on panel replacement? Thanks.
We don’t recommend using this adhesive for patches in cosmetic areas. The physics of the coefficient of thermal expansion may result in ghosting or mapping issues. It’s just the nature of adhesives no matter which you use. We know this is done in the industry but the guys that have success try to bond in a feature line area so if it does ghost it isn’t noticeable. Using a reinforced filler over the seam also may help.
I want to cover the opening in my 1969 Camaro’s firewall, from where I have removed the original AC system. Detroit Speed Equipment makes a cover panel that covers the opening and approximately 85% of the passenger side of the firewall. Can I use one of your adhesives for this, and should I use a structural or panel adhesive? Which one would you recommend?
I would use a epoxy based seam sealer instead in case you ever change your mind and want to remove that cover the seam sealer is easier to get apart without so much heat. Did this on a 72 Blazer for the same area.
Can you use the panel bond on the entire edges of a roof cap without welding or riveting the front and rear pinch weld flanges..
It is critical to follow the OEM body repair manual procedures to ensure structural integrity and safety. OEM procedures will vary by vehicle make, model, year and part.
Before 3M took these products over there used to be a "T" pin provided but 3M stopped including the pin and raised the price.
I made fiberglass door skins for a drag car. I want to bond the door hinge to the door before fiberglassing over it. Whats a recommended product?
I would use the 07333 with 1/4" rivets if possible for extra strength.
How do you keep unused 08115 from drying out in mixing tube?
Get extra mixing tubes
have you ever done a test on differant glue like noton and fusor compared to 3m
Which panel bond is most recommended for bonding aluminum bracing to fiberglass?
I've used the 8115 with no issues on both. Just make sure to rough up both parts.
Can I plug weld screw holes shut after panel bond has cured?
It will burn the adhesive. Most of the time you need to weld while wet, which causes the adhesive to rapid cure. I had to learn this through experience.
How do you remove the panel after it has been fixed
Thanks for your interest in 3M products. To remove the Panel Bond Adhesive, you would need to use heat - 400 degrees. Hope this helps!
Can you use any of the products to glue a car spoiler?
Much blessings and appreciate your response.
Thanks for your interest in 3M. All three of the adhesives could certainly be used to attach a spoiler. If you are choosing not to use bolts to attach the spoiler, our 3M Super Strength Molding Tape (03614) is most commonly used for attaching spoilers to vehicles.
@@3MCollision ty for you response
😎😎👍
Question 11: Leave the nozzle on, but how do you remove it when it's time to use it again? It's not going to be glued??
Dan, you throw the nozzle away and use a fresh one next time. 2 nozzles are included with the adhesive and more can be purchased separately. Thanks for the question.
@@shawncollins5821 Thanks for replying. I meant, not that it would be glued as "clogged". But glued that you wouldn't be able to remove the old nozzle.
Dan L. The nozzle will come right off. The adhesive at the base of the nozzle will not cure because it’s not mixed.
@@shawncollins5821 OH, It's not mixed! Thanks, it makes sense now. Thanks a LOT! I was hesitant to buy these expensive glues, for just a "one time use", but now it's a relief.
Just use a cap to create back pressure, instead of wasting product?
Will this work for plastic to plastic bonding
Thanks for your interest in 3M. It will depend on what kind of plastic you are bonding, and also what adhesive you plan to use.
I have used the 07333 , and I like the way it bonds, that being said ,im currently modifying my vehicle , and the rear qtr panel skin will be cut, leaving the inner skin, which essentially is the wheel well exposed. Ill be flushing that part of the well to the uncut portion of the qtr panel and do some spot welds and also applying one of these adhesives. I wanted to know which one of these 3 could I use? Or could I just stick with the 07333? Looking forward to your response.
These products aren’t designed for custom panel sectioning or patching. They’re designed to bond factory attachment flanges for collision repair, not to create a new seam in the cosmetic area of a panel. Any adhesive joint in the middle of a panel is likely to ghost or map as a result of thermal expansion and contraction. I’m not exactly clear on what you are doing.
@@shawncollins5821 what do you mean by ghost or map?
Ruben Robles you may see the outline of the seam or a line develop at the seam. The coefficient of thermal expansion between the steel and adhesive during hot and cold cycles will sometimes cause that faint line to become visible. It may or may not occur but we can’t guarantee it so we don’t recommend a seam in a cosmetic area. If the seam is covered with a reinforced filler it may not show but no guarantee.
@@shawncollins5821 ok. Dont realy care for the cosmetic, since it will be covered. As far as the joint, itll be a lap joint. Not sure if Ill do by weld, but either weld or rivets and adding the adhesive.
Ruben Robles Thanks for clarifying that it will be covered. No problem then as far as appearance. Please just understand that we can’t recommend altering the original structure for safety reasons.
i need to bind loose (dry) rice particles arranged in a design manner together so the design holds up as a picture. See Gahuli on youtube and see what a gahuli is. I need to spray something on a gahuli positioned on a nice strong paper or cardboard backing. This backing paper should not be falling apart by this spray. Please respond. Thank You,
Pee use pee
Can structural adhesive be used to fill rotted A pillars.
Unfortunately, rotted parts should to be replaced. There are no OEM procedures for filling corroded structural parts.
@@3MCollision how about laying a matching gauge patch over a not-large floor pan hole and using this around the perimeter lap joint.... in lieu of welding in a patch? Afterward, I'd probably coat from topside and underside with cosmoline and then follow with woolwax and then annual woolwax reapplications. This an upstate NY 2007 civic with 400,000 miles on it at this point. Runs great, rest of frame seems ok. I'm constantly maintaining it.
having ti listen to the music is distracting
Get rid of loud music can't understand you
Shawn, excellent content but I'm sorry they destroyed your presentation in post production with unnecessary and extra loud music. Subtracts from the ability to absorb the information.
OMG…kill that music…
Ya know, after about ten minutes that crap background music gets REAL annoying 💩
holly smokes with the safety stuff overkill