The SECRET to flying SOCAL Class B airspace
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- When flying cross country in southern California it can be hard to negotiate the LA class B airspace. Many pilots don't know that there are actually 5 ways to transition this area and at least one of them doesn't require talking to SOCAL approach at all. This route is called the Special Flight Rules Area. This video shows how that process works. Please enjoy The Finer Points!
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Intro Music by Michael Bizar - Krátké a kreslené filmy
This is the most underrated aviation channel. Can't believe there are only 18k subs.
Love the content. Keep it up
Your right with your comment..add one more sub....with a 🔔.
Three years later and there are a lot more, but still way less than it deserves. Every certificated pilot should be subscribed to this channel.
THIS ROUTE IS NO MAN'S LAND. At a flying club meeting in San Diego, a Southern California controller told us that a lot of pilots don't announce in this corridor. So many pilots fly this corridor it will blow your mind!. He showed us radar tracks. Scary, Many are afraid to talk to controllers. The 6500 ft Coastal route transition is much better because the controllers are looking out for traffic and ALL the pilots are talking. I love this route. It's safe and you get to fly right over LAX. Controllers are there to help. Use them. They want to talk to you in this congested airspace. Thank you for your videos. I have learned a lot from watching them.
Frank Andrijeski yeah I was surprised at home many calls we DID hear ... and knew there were probably a lot more than we even knew about using it.
Great video. I agree. I won't fly VFR in the LA area personally, but nice to see someone do it. Every time I'm in LA I feel like my ADS-B unit is going to explode from all the traffic.
I go into Hawthorne and Torrance often. The SVFR route is a no brainer.
My first solo cross country took me from KFUL (Fullerton Municipal) to KCMA (Camarillo) and the I was terrified of the Class B airspace between me and the journey and I avoided it all together by flying to the north towards El Monte and Burbank and avoiding it all together. It was a longer route, but was definitely the right choice for me as a student pilot who had enough to worry about without dealing with the rigors of Class B rules. Would love to navigate that airspace someday though!
Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Jason!
@3:12 the rest is just believing it can be done...
I would add: "...and going out and doing it."
Phoenix, AZ here. Great video. We have a Bravo transition route here in Phoenix. And like you say, it is not that tough but you do have to be organized and have an alternate in case ATC won't let you through.
On my first cross country I did the Mini Route from MYF to LSN. What a treat, and I´m glad I did it while it was still available. The return trip a couple of days later was in the SFRA by night, no one else around. The last time I was there the SFRA was plan B, but the great SoCal controllers squeezed us into the very busy class B taking the Coastal Route. Amazing! As long as one is prepared well and not afraid to talk to ATC it´s a great experience.
Great video as always Jason, You are a great teacher. Always learn a lot from your videos. Looking forward to the next one. Best regards and happy landings.
Great tips and tricks! Another great informative help to CA GA pilots, and a reminder to the rest of us to learn our local areas, and understand any special rules we have!
I am a student pilot with 35hrs at the moment. I love your channel. This was good info as I live in this area and want to fly south from KSZP, my home airport. Thanks for posting this!
Awesome, I just had a friend move down to Anaheim for work and am planning on flying myself down to visit him sometime in the spring once the weather gets a little more consistent!
Great video, thanks for posting it online..
Thanks for another outstanding video. I've thought about flying from las vegas to fullerton and onward to catalina island. California airspace is scary, even for a seasoned pilot. So much air traffic and complicated airspace scenarios. Lots of varying weather and terrain as well. I don't know why this channel is not drawing more subscribers. Keep it up.
haha, I was just getting proud of my 17k ;) ... they will come if you all keep helping me spread the word, thanks for watching and commenting
Great content!
Great Viedo, thanks for the continue learning.
That photo of LAX is shockingly good. Amazing.
Amazing! Please more transition videos.
Thanks for the insight.
Amazing photo of lax
This is AWESOME!!
Another great lesson Jason, I flew the LASFRA for many few Years and in a clear day the view is amazing. You Got to take Us to Santa Catalina Island in one of Your Video and show the world the Island and the Buffalos in the Island including the famous Buffalo burgers.
I was just at Catalina. Rwy is now 3000x60 ft, landing fee now $35, restaurant set to open June 17, 2020. It was my first time flying in. Can't wait to do it again!
Nice video!
Great video!
The jets on that approach shown at the end would be well below 4500 and no conflict. At that distance to the airport on final they would be well below 2000. Could be a different story for departing traffic though since airliners climb at insane rates compared to GA and can reach 4500 very quickly after take off.
Awesome!!!
One time flying from SBA to MYF on the Costal route I heard a plane call looking for a bravo clearance from the north. Had no clue on VFR corridors. The controller read him a series of waypoints to plug into his GPS so he could fly the Coliseum route. 🙄SOCAL was always to great to work with.
Awesome unique airspace.
I put this on a Flight Chops video he did with you in NorCal, but when I was on my solo proficiency checkride as a student pilot, my instructor had me do lost procedures in that jet corridor and the controller went whacko on me. I was completely legal, and as a student I had no idea what I was impacting. It was a crappy day, but my instructor let it all transpire . . .
The cheat to stay on the 128 radial is from 405/Hawthorne Blvd (south entry to SFRA) just aim for the approach end of runway 24L at LAX, puts you right on the 128 radial.
I can't wait for them to re-open the mini route, it's a pain having to climb to 4,500 out of KTOA in a J3 Cub when I fly North
Good stuff. I'm always reluctant to fly with a cold but you seem to be powering through it.
It sounds worse than it is in this video. The bad news is that this flight really made it much worse and I've had a hard time kicking it since. I've had to cancel quite a few flights after this.
I live in the middle of the country, bouncing between KFMN and KPSX, so the likelihood of me needing to do this is low. But, it's one of the "finer points" of aviation and I think that the more I know the better pilot I will be. Patreon subbed...
Thanks Michael, I really appreciate that support. It's a huge help in getting this kind of content out there.
That''s a very nice flight! Just subscribed to your channel sir.
Thanks and welcome!
Nice work! First call North bound is usually Hawthorne & 405 Freeway (VPLSR) Also, the mini route is all but permanently closed due to LAX tower staffing
Coastline Aviation thanks! Ah, that may have been why it was down
The Mini Route used to be a routine thing. Due to ATC staffing, they stopped doing it.
The SFRA is actually my least favorite transition, but I have to use it when heading into SMO from MYF to avoid an even steeper descent into SMO. I'll also use it leaving SMO, to avoid having to go all the way around. For longer distances, I much prefer the Coastal Route or Colosseum Route. The Mini Route has been closed for about a year due to short staffing at LAX and they think it will be about 4-5 years till it is regularly available again.
Btw, going south, you pick up 127.2 for FF and north you usually go to 134.2 - especially when transiting the BUR area.
Great info/video. I have flown the coastal route a few times and it was easy-peasy👍. Controllers were very helpful. I also flew the coastal route in a helicopter twice. Was odd when LAX controller i could cross the departure end over the shoreline if i maintained 50’ or lower! Yes fifty feet. As i crossed the center line a 737 flew over the top of us. Was spectacular and scary at the same time.
@@brianrutledge575 I got to do the shoreline below 150 in a helicopter recently. Quite a kick.
wow, haven't flown in about a year, crazy to hear that the mini route is closed.
You make me lol my brother
Friedrich Nietzsche Quotes. He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying.
Thanks
I don't understand how you knew the mini route is closed during normal hours? I flew up to KSMO last week from San Diego, planned on using the mini route, right before I got there they told me it was closed, had to to use this SFR.... It flustered me slightly as it was not what I had planned, but fortunately I had studied the SFR as well. I just don't know what I missed, because I thought it would be open.
What if I don’t have a for or NDB to pick up the heading, can I just use the GPS to the VOR and take the heading from there? I assume that’s fine as long as you intercept that heading off the VOR?
Was hangar flying the Navajo I'm about to start on and they popped in an all new glass cockpit. Was familiarizing myself and saw this one thing labelled L3. My only guess (cause I couldn't find the old one) was it was the transponder. Thanks for just confirming that haha!
I love those units! Simple, reliable, affordable.
@@TheFinerPoints yeah it's odd seeing an old Navajo with an Aspen avionics glass cockpit and all new Garmin's and radios
Incoming northerly STARs to KLAX 24RL and 25RL use Santa Monica VOR "D&M 3000ft ... reduce speed to 210kts". I hear it all the time on LiveATC, and watch it on FlightAware.
The LA basin is an amazing place to fly. Some of the finest ATCers, real ATC aristocracy, control for KLAX final approach. I've seen the skies loaded with aircraft arriving and departing the 12 airports in a 30mi radius around KLAX, (saturated airspace) and this one FA ATCer gets planes arriving from 6 different directions and gets them marching in to KLAX 25L and 24R like teeth on a zipper. It's an awe inspiring sight, especially when you consider that at the same time, FA ATCers are doing the same for the other International Airports around the basin. It's a wonder there haven't been accidents all over the place ... and there haven't. Yep, the LA basin is a great place to sharpen your chart skills.
I used to fly that environment before I retired from the airline, then did a series of atmospheric research flights in a DC-8 for a CARB contract in 2008. We flew that basin (and throughout California) at 1000’ AGL @ 200kts. Didn’t know whether to look at the TCAS more or out the windshields. What was on the TCAS wasn’t always visible outside. The controllers were extremely accommodating and vital for assisting to make it a safe operation. I was glad when the week was done. It was like stirring up a bee hive, then walking through the cloud of bees.
Regardless of which transition I make these days in my little spam can, I am glad to have ADS-B. In spite of looking outside a lot, I have never seen so much traffic that I haven’t seen before without ADS-B or TCAS.
I like the local knowledge feedback on these TAC routes. That SFRA route looks pretty simple, but perhaps more so during the week and not on a busy weekend.
Manny Puerta - If it isn't passenger heavies, it's cargo (really) heavies. lol It quiets down for a bit z0900-z1300.
Having 4 long parallel runways really helps as does the abundance of good weather. On the other hand, have you been in that airspace during the Santa Annas? Everything is backwards, and it is not nearly so smooth.
John Miller For The effect of Santa Ana’s at KONT, check CZcams for “UPS DC-8 Crosswind Landing” about ten years ago.
John Miller - true. only KLAX, Santa Monica and Hawthorne don't really have as much of a problem, aligned as they are along the wind track of the Santa Anas, as other airports with runways tangent to the airflow. Still, even for these, the tendency to float in an enhanced ground effect is problematic, and even the heavies can suddenly find themselves 50ft higher or lower over the runway when the SAs get gusty rather than steady.-ish. That's why they get paid the "big" bucks.
Face it ... flying IS fun ... when it's within or near the upper edge of one's skillset. Flying a light GA aircraft in Santa Ana winds is just stupid. The only thing that could compare is landing on a carrier deck during a storm; but then that's the military where "I might die" is the default setting. Not even mad dogs and Englishmen would fly GA during the SAs.
Generally you should call out the following points from where you were released from ATC. Long Beach, Mobile Plant, Chevron Plant, South Complex, North Complex, Balona Creek, and finally last call over Santa Monica. Those that do call outs like to give more reports and keep an eye out for quiet traffic and announce them too if they aren't responding. It's a busy corridor now because most of the other routes are always closed now.
Thanks Jacob!
At 5:47 you make your first call and say you’re over Hawthorne (I take that to mean Hawthorne airport). But you’re not really over that airport are you? You’re on the SMO 132 radial correct? If you were really over HHR wouldn’t you be pretty far east of course?
Now here's the rub. Remember that bravo airspace is "clear of clouds", to be VFR. So if you want to land at Torrance or long beach, do you have to file for the climb to the vfr route then depart bravo airspace, it begs the question?
Is LASFRA class B clear of clouds airspace? Then if so when can you deviate off the 132 radial to avoid clouds like you can deviate to avoid traffic? Please include your FAR references. I looked at the FAR refs on the chart supplement and I can’t find the answer.
Can one start there training for a private pilot in a TBM if they wanted to? If not why??
Thanks
I'm not sure it "can't be done" but it is something I would strongly recommend you do not try. Consider that even the air force starts their pilots in more modest airplanes. You must understand the basics if you're ever going to be good at it and a TBM simply moves too fast, and is too capable to be a good "basics" trainer. This isn't to say you can't move quickly in that direction but you should really start in something more modest. I recommend you solo in something like a Cessna or Citabria or something that teaches you some stick and rudder skills, then move to a high performance single like a Cirrus, Bonanza, or Mooney and plant to be there for a couple of years. Then you can move to something that relies heavily on automation (like a TBM) and moves at jet like speeds in the flight levels. It's a little bit like graduating business school and trying to be the CEO of Bank of America as your first job. Can it be done? maybe, by the right person with the right training but failure is highly probable and in this case failure can be fatal.
I understand what the military does because I’m x-military and used to be with a aviation unit. I was talking to a pilot who has been teaching for years and before that he was a air traffic controller. He was going to teach me on a twin prop plain and we moved now to a different state.
So you are saying that there is no law that says I can’t start in a TBM first then? I also used to fly with the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) so I do know some stuff about flying
Thank you
Sure! There is no law that I am aware of but, again, I wouldn't recommend it even if it is legal. You need practical experience. You can't fake hours in aviation. No matter how rich you are, how motivated, or even how talented. Butt time in the seat is butt time in the seat. You must walk before you run.
If you can fly a small plane already, however, (as in your civil air patrol experience) then I'd say move at whatever pace you and your CFI feel comfortable.
When you got the frequency change approval to 1201, was that the tower you were talking too? Is this corridor a bit of a loop-whole to entering Class B airspace without two way comms?
No way to enter B without comm unless its a bona-fide emergency (then you can do "whatever is needed").
The "corridor" is a "hole" through the B, so you're not really in it. Ted is right -- there is no way to actually enter the Class B without two way comms and a clearance.
That certainly appears alot less stressful than the Hudson River Corridor in NYC.
NYC airspace isn't as packed with international airports as LA, nor do any of it's (or LA's) airports handle the raw volume of traffic as Atlanta, but NYC is awfully cozy with lots of landing patterns ... kind of like the San Francisco Bay area (which has nowhere near the volume of the other congested areas.) One has to "slam-dunk" a landing into KSFO, keeping your approach high enough to allow departing traffic from 3 different airports to slide under you. lol
Can't help but say it ... flying is hella FUN !
NYC SFRA can get stressful because of all of the helicopters doing tours, I had around 15 all along the river one time in quite a tight area. Another time had one so far up my rear ADS-B had them on top of me at +0. Throw in the Pres. TFR in there now to add to it. Will agree with you tho still hella fun and well worth the stress!
You are not right about mini route, I almost get it every time I request, weather should be VFR and LAX west band landings. Mini rout is safer in my opinion since communicating all the time.
That's good to hear, happy to be wrong about that. Have you tried it lately? Since "the shutdown"? I have had a bunch of others confirm what I said but related it to the staffing at LAX, maybe that's what SMO tower was telling me?
@@TheFinerPoints , I tried in Dec last time, didn't fly over LAX since then, I'll give it a try next week and update here.
I fly regularly out of Hawthorne and Torrance. As of last October, Hawthorne controllers were saying the Mini Route was ‘permanently’ closed due to staffing. That could change at any time, I suppose. So, I’d have to climb to 4500 to get to LASFR. You can ask for a ‘box climb’ out of KHHR or KTOA to get up to altitude. Basically, you keep flying the normal pattern [crosswind, downwind, base, final, repeat] but continue climbing until you reach LASFR altitude. It keeps you over the runway, in case of emergency, and controllers at these two airports are familiar with the request, so you are a predictable target for them. This isn’t something you’ll find described in any official FAA material. It’s just a local procedure that seems to have evolved out of necessity, especially at KHHR where you’re so close to LAX.
@@TonyCacciarelli Same deal here on a sightseeing flight outta TOA. Ground asked if I had the actual info/chart and I read back the highlights of the procedure. Tower told me about the box climb. Went up the coast then back then NE a bit over SMO/Hollywood, SMO cautioned me about Burbank C (which I was briefed on as well). The towers seem pretty versed at this stuff.
@@TheFinerPoints Updating the thread, I flew last weekend and asked for Mini Route @2500, I was granted permission to LAX Bravo and flew through with no problem, Mini Route is still active and available.
I’m from LA and I’m a golfer, you should definitely play Bel Air if you get the chance. If I’m thinking of the right course its a country club right in the middle of fancy beverly hills. Beautiful course with super fancy homes all around, Elon Musk owns 3 houses overlooking it. If you’re there try to drive up to 924 Bel Air rd., its a house for sale for $150 million. See if you can spot the helicopter perched on the roof. The house has its own website too with detailed pictures worth checking out.
Thanks I will take him up on it for sure now :)
You are not far from KCCR,I am in my 50's working to save some money to get un interrupted training when I do I hope you'll have room for another student.
I hope so too Ari, let me know when you're ready to go!
1201 was the "glider" transponder code until several years ago.. Now the glider code is 1202.
Have you learn of anything affected by the government shut down. ? Thank for the update. Thumbs Up.
Folks have said the "mini route" has been all but closed due to the staffing issues at LAX tower.
Who's the student? This guy is my clone. Looks and sounds exactly like me!
That's Rob. He's the CEO of 729solutions here in the bay area. I guess everybody has a doppelganger! I wonder who mine is ... hmm .... ?
That looked do-able.
Yes I found that it was easy. The hardest part was actually believing you could penetrate the LA X surface area without talking to ANYBODY
Not much of a secret. Its right there in the terminal area chart..
Yeah, that's a fair point. You'd be surprised how many people don't know where to look ... and it just sounded cooler to me than "an EXAMPLE of flying through the Class B airspace". Creative license? :)
@@TheFinerPoints I'm all for creative license when it is accurate. Pilots just need to read the flaps on their charts. Lot's of info.
Nice video! Keep up the great work. If you have a second go have a browse of my account 😁🤘