Green Glue Nonsense - www.AcousticFields.com
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Glue is not a barrier technology no matter what the color of it is. Its attenuation is limited to small amounts at middle frequencies. It is too expensive for every dB of attenuation you receive. Use mass that has the appropriate density to deal with your noise frequency and amplitude issues.
This guy is always a ray of sunshine and positivity
Thank you for your support.
I used some heavy felt paper glued 2 layers to drywall using cheap latex caulk or construction adhesive and rockwool insulation and worked great
What did this process work great for? What were the frequency and amplitudes of the issues it addressed?
@@AcousticFields I used it to hide noise from mini split lineset inside regular wall 4". This was done inside master bedroom closet so clothes also muffle it plus there is closet door also
Great video, glad I watched it. I need to do some sound proofing in a few bedrooms as my neighbors bass is too loud. Since talking to them it got a little better but still not prefect. A local company quoted me for extra drywall with green glue and promised a 45-50% noise reduction, expensive too. Thinking id get the same results with MLV over the current drywall. Its just the one wall that faces the neighbors. Not sure what else a guy could do? Its a new home, doesn't seem right to removed drywall and start over.
You must measure the frequency and amplitude of any noise transmission issue. The barrier you construct is strictly based upon those numbers.
Whats the material you would suggest at half an inch?
Wouldnt green glue come in handy with decoupling? Like if u separate the sheets only with green glue, you end up with two sheets separated by a material that is resistant to sound wave conductivity?
That was my understanding of it anyway.
T, It depends on the frequency and amplitude of the noise you are building a barrier against. It is not "sound wave conductivity" it is vibration transmission reduction. There is no one solution that fits all.
So glad I watched this and did some research before buying. What is your method with 1/2" drywall?
K, Construction methodology is determined by the frequency and amplitude of the noise you are building a
a barrier to reduce the transmission of.
He didn't have oneb other then just layer drywall...
Regular PL 3000 works just as good! There is nothing in the “green glue “ that stops sound propagation through materials. What does slow down sound is the amount of mass and air gaps that are to totally sealed, that’s why a double wall with an air gap in between works. Yes you can add mlv but it is very expensive and you still need double 5/8” drywall. A properly designed and built double wall works. That’s my experience.😀🇨🇦
It can work above 125 Hz. but takes up too much space.
Wrong
Very informative, thank you. I was ready to commit to green glue when I came across this video. If I live in an apartment building and want the dampen the thumping sounds from my neighbours above (mainly kids running around), what’s a better option?
What are the frequency and amplitude of your noise issue? You must know that before you can design and build the appropriate barrier. If you are renting, it will be difficult to convince the building owner to let you build a barrier. You can not use any wall hanging panel to stop noise transmission.
Typical answer from a convoluted con, what kind of clown acoustician can’t clearly answer what kind of sonic transmission and at what freq common footfall occurs?
I like your video, can you pls provide information on the alternative sheet you referred to?
Best
M, This is the exact issue I am trying to raise. Every situation with noise is different. Is your noise above 125 Hz.? If so, how what is the amplitude or strength of that noise/ Is your noise below 125 Hz.? If so, how strong is it (amplitude) and at what frequencies?
@@AcousticFields I get it that amplitude is a major and vital factor in determining what barrier materials to use But aside from that It seems to me that most studios will be accommodating full frequency range. I mean, if you've got a room that is occupied by drummers, keyboard players, bass players, vocalists and guitarists, you're going to be dealing with frequency ranges from about 28 Hz. to several thousand Hz. In most studios, wouldn't it make sense to base one's choice of barrier materials on the likelihood of full range, unless, of course, one's studio is built specifically for say, vocalists or tuba players?
@Acoustic Fields how would you suggest minimizing the transmission through a standard steel stud wall of about 25 dB at 100 Hz that is created about 9 inches away from the wall by a ball hitting another wall which is made from wood studs and 3/4 inch melamine board? Thanks.
D, I do not believe your problem starts at 100 Hz. It believe it starts at a much lower fundamental and 100 Hz. is just one part of the total problem. With noise you must measure, measure, measure. Guessing with noise is a fool's game. Your example is a good illustration of this. If we treat 100 Hz. but the problem is caused by 50 Hz. then everything you have done at 100 Hz. will not work at 50 Hz.
@@AcousticFields I have measured and the problem is at 100 Hz. There is an increase of maybe 5 dB over ambient noise at 50 Hz but 25 or more dB at about 100 Hz. Just wondering how you would minimize transmission at 100 Hz. If I am wrong with my measurements that would be my problem. But for argument's sake let's say I am right, so how would you construct the barrier for the 100 Hz and 25 dB sound? Thanks.
You have been building, buildings for 40 years. So, what do YOU use, to help reduce noise? Have a downstairs room, converting to a rental. Upstairs is hardwood floor. So, how to keep noise down?? What do I install in the rooms ceiling, vinyl mat?
J, Material type used and the construction methodology employed are entirely dependent on your noise frequency and amplitudes. Noise barriers for noise above 125 Hz. are completely different than noise barriers which must reduce transmission below 125 Hz. You must measure your noise over 7 days and then design for the worst case noise during that time window.
Could you recommend a rubber or polyurethane constraining material that will work great and not break the bank? I cannot find a retailer for the decidamp DC30, but also considered similar rubber. This is for the speaker enclosure itself, not the room. I'm looking for something to trowel on between two 1/2 inch or two 3/4 inch thick pieces of maple plywood.
Audiomute has a product called Peacemaker. Use the 6 mm thickness.
I saw this method on a video and through to myself no way this works. I as well have been in construction for 40 years and never could imagine this working. Glad I watched this. So I have a wall I need to fix. I have an employee who works crazy hours and need to allow him the freedom to do so but he is noisy and the tenants on the other side of the wall are complaining. We have a 2x4 wall, 1/2" drywall each side fiberglass insulation between, horizontal hat channel and another layer of drywall. Its not enough at all. I can build another wall in front of this and have about 14" of space to work with so plenty of room to build something significant. Its scissor trusses and goes from 8' tall on one side and 16' wide and to 10' tall on the other wall. I have watched a bunch or your videos and still not sure what I need to do to fix this problem. The noise is not excessive its talking, phone use so nothing mechanical or high freq. I am thinking a vinyl curtain glued to the existing drywall, 3" of polystyrene insulation glued to that. Build a 2x6 wall in front of this with a 4"-6" air space between the poly and the inside of the wall. The inside of the wall use 1/4" plywood (because I have an excess amount of it and the wall will still be easily stood. What do you suggest inside the cavity of this new wall? I plan to 5/8" drywall over the top. Wanting to drive the STC through the roof and never hear about this complaint again.
Thanks for any suggestions - Steve
First things first with noise. If you have watched my noise videos, I constantly tell people that with noise you must measure it first before you discuss, plan, buy materials, build whatever you build, you must first measure. You say you are not sure what I need to do to fix this problem. The answer is neither do I without noise numbers. With those, anything can be "fixed".
Use the GG. He is clueless
This saved me moving,neighbour hoovering at 1am and we only hear her hitting the skirting board now. Absolutely saved us,like we’re detached. True review from uk
This methodolgy has validity at certain frequencies. However, it takes a lot of space and is a 50 year old approach. The science of noise transmission has advanced and material and space requirements have been drastically reduced in the amount of materials required along with less space.
@@AcousticFields I’m more than happy losing 30mm over a 5 metre wide room,changed our lives. Can’t see how you’d do it with less material than 2 sheets. Super cheap fix too,4 acoustic sheets and 6 tubes of Green Glue.
Green glue does work on hollow interior doors, directly apply plaster board on wood with green glue in between and a few screws around
It works as an adhesive. There are many other adhesives that you can use that are cheaper and will produce the same results. It does not have any "magical" acoustical properties as everyone claims.
think of it this way. it does something, but it's actually the air barrier between the two boards that is doing something. not specifically the green glue. if you put any other liquid adhesive in between it would work just as well. it's the gap between boards that insulates a little, just like a double pane window compared to a single pane. because liquids can't be compressed, the glue creates a gap between the boards. that gap fills with air, and that's your insulation. it's not great, but yes, it does 'something'. so the method does something, not the green glue. if that makes sense.
@@slavesforging5361 The process you are describing is constrained layer mass damping. Air is one material type that you can use as an material type in your barrier design. The issue with this product is people's perception of its "magical powers". It an adhesive. That it all it ever was. That is all it ever will be.
@@AcousticFields good to know the name of it! Thank you. Your channel is awesome and very informative. I completely agree. The green glue is doing nothing. People are getting really confused, thinking the green glue is doing something special or magical, when it's not. It's just a marketing scam.
I'm building a small drum room for practice, and considered green glue or MLV between drywall layers. I'm going to load the room tremendously with SPL. For my inside walls and ceiling I was going to use a clip/channel setup. Do you think 2 or 3 layers of 5/8" drywall will do a decent job on its own, or would I try and use layers of green glue or MLV in between? I'm trying for an STC of 65-70. I am for sure worried about 40-125 Hz not being as effective. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks again for the great videos.
This method will not work for your usage.
@Acoustic Fields, I understand your perspective on this from your experience , but I am curious to know if you've done any testing with Green Glue, or if your opinion is driven by the fact that it doesn't sound believable. I'm asking because I have about to apply sound proofing to my studio space. I've read and seen a lot that is positive about the Green Glue, and I don't want to it if it isn't going to work. So many others that have used it feel that it does. I'm trying to reconcile the competing perspectives.
N, Green glue is just one type of treatment possibilities. Everything depends on the frequency and amplitude of your noise transmission issues. All frequencies and their associated strengths require different approaches with different materials and procedures. Have you measured your noise issues so you know what you are trying to stop? Without noise numbers, you are guessing and guessing with noise is foolish.
@@AcousticFields Thank you. That makes perfect sense. I've been thinking about it from a very broad definition of the problem. When my band plays in the room, I don't want the rest of the house to be disrupted. When I am trying to record a vocal, I don't want the rest of the house to disrupt me. But it sounds like I need to be more specific in my problem statement in order to find the right solution for it. As an example, I need to understand how much the foot traffic from the floor above impact the room below, and solve for that. Is that what you are saying?
Green glue is just an adhesive. It does not have any "magical" acoustical properties. You can usually get much better results by adding another material layer depending on noise frequency and amplitude.
You will notice he didnt actually answer your question. No. Hes just rambling.
@@AcousticFields I'm a big fan of experimental proof. What you say makes sense, but experiment trumps theory.
It would be pretty powerful, and not too hard to make two drywall boxes. One with two half inch pieces of drywall between your studs and no green glue, one with the same, but with green glue. Then put a sound source in the box, and measure how much sound comes out of the two.
We’re building a house and with kids sound barriers are on our priority list. Is there a cheaper caulking that when applied can give some reduction in addition to a 2nd layer of 5/8 drywall? And what about MLV?
Thanks for the video and saving me hundreds.
You must measure the frequency and amplitude of the noise you are trying to reduce the transmission of. Without knowing how much energy you have to slow down and at what frequencies the energy is at you are just guessing about a solution. Guessing with noise never works. Most fall short of their goals and call me wondering how to fix their guess. Most of the time they only have two choices. They live with the mistake or must tear it all down and start over after measurements. Follow the carpentry adage of measure twice cut once.
Your website is showing errors when I try to download the free material.
J, We are working on these issues. Try again to perform your task in a few days.
it was my understanding the benefit of this stuff is _energy dispersion._
the stuff never hardens, so by allowing each sheet to flex, energy is mildly dissipated.
combined with whisper clips & hat channels attached on one side only... the entire wall flexes.
There are a lot of adhesives that never harden. The silicon in the glue allows for the tensile strength flexibility.
YES. If you double up your sheetrock with a soft rubbery substance between, the sound reduction properties will astound you. But that will happen with any soft rubbery adhesive.
No astounding required. Once you have the measurements of the frequency and amplitude of the noise, the correct material types to use will fall into place. There is a large difference in barrier technology with noise issues below 125 hz and above 125 hz. Without noise numbers, you are guessing and guessing wrong with noise which most do, will be expensive. You do not want to spend one dollar more than you have to with noise since you will not get the money back.
@@AcousticFields Mucho appreciate the information. I was actually agreeing with you that Green Goop isn't a major factor here. The "results" that people are claiming are more from adding mass with something between and not said glue brand. But yes... numbers are what ultimately matter.
This man knows his stuff for sure love his videos
Thank you for your support and following.
He’s a con
Thank you for your insights regarding this matter. I was trying to figure out a way to justify the cost of Green Glue for a home studio project and was looking for a possible work-around solution. I was wondering, however, about putting foam (or rubber) weather striping between the sheets in lieu of the Green. Would love your thoughts on this? Thanks again. Cheers!
O, What is the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues? You must know what you are fighting before you build the proper weapon.
@@AcousticFields Thanks mate. Point well made. It's a new build so no issues yet. Since mid to highs are a little easier to mitigate it's my hope I can squash out some of the low-mids down to maybe 30hz (?). I admit I'm not being very scientific here. Isolating one drywall sheet from another just sort of makes sense and weather stripping is by far the least expensive way to go. But will it do anything to trap and soothe bass? I guess I'll find out through a little trial and error. I'll test the room (12X24) before and then after the second sheet is installed. I do get occasional rumbles in my home from a train track approx 4 miles away. Those are probably 4' wavelength monsters :D I don't expect much luck with that.
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues.
@@ontogeny6474 Place tar paper between the dry wall layers? Just use Green Glue or a substitute on the studs before the dry wall?
@@Lughnerson lol
Thanks for your video!!!
Leave the magic to the magicians. No magic here.
Agreed. Tried that product years ago with unsatisfactory results. Far better results came using heavy marine ply (waterproof plywood) Decent Plywood beats the lot hands down IMO. And the FINISHED room sounds way better too. 😎👍
S, Yes, you can not beat mass for vibration and noise transmission management.
Plywood is one of the lightest but most rigid wood panel material. None of these help sound absorption.
If double staggered stud wall separated with acoustic mineral wool between is old fashioned, what is better? What's the 1/2" material you mention? I'm looking to build a house in the UK and require some soundproofing between stud walled rooms.
This methodology is 40 years old, takes up too much space for performance benefits and only works for frequencies above 125 Hz. I do not know why anyone would use it. With noise, you must always and let me repeat that, always measure the noise. Without knowing what frequency the noise is at, how great it is, and at what time it occurs, you are guessing and guessing with noise is foolish. If you guess wrong, which most do, you may have to tear out what is built and start over with the proper construction methodology or live with a failed barrier. We can assist you with the noise measurement process. Contact us at info@acousticfields.com for further guidance.
How can we know which frecuencys are we fighting before build the room? I mean I will have drums on my space, but my space is not built yet. So I can only measure an open and quiet space... But there will be drums and guitar amps in the future
Drums are full range. They are the second largest energy producing source next to a gong. What pressure levels will you be playing at. Most bands play around 110 dB SPL maximum. You will need to measure the ambient noise levels in the rooms that are receiving the noise transmission from the drums. The ratio to how loud you play in your drum room and how quiet the world is around the drum room determines what barrier technology you will use in your walls.
Every instrument type produces a frequency range and within that frequency range, certain amplitudes or strengths will appear.
Hi, I'm building 5mx7m timber construction music room in the garden 20ft away from my neighbours for my daughter who is an acoustic drummer. I'm using 18mm osb, 120mm x45mm timber frame, rock wool slab, 400mm gap, 100mmx36mm timber frame, rock wool insulation, membrane, resilient channel, then 3 lots of soundproof plaster board stuck together with carpet adhesive...
In simple terms do you think this will be good enough?
Thanks
I have no idea without noise numbers. You are guessing with noise which is very foolish. If you guess wrong, you will have to tear it all out and start over.
Building a small night club at home and was hopping that a decoupled wall and 2 layer of 5/8 would help for low frequency from techno music
No, That barrier design is only adequate for frequencies above 125 Hz. It is also a waste of precious space. You need a full range barrier with wall thickness of 8-10".
@@AcousticFields can you send a link or explain a bit better that full range barrier with wall thickness of 8-10"?
I am going to renovate my garage and turn it into a small studio/rehersal space.
Basicaly,after I open up the doors to my garage, i was planning to make another double decoupledwall and a door,for better isolation.
Thank you, my suppositions based on what science I already understood was telling me something smells fishy. I just found a website claiming green glue is better than a 5mm 2lb a square foot sheet of MLV. I am fairly certain people would get similar results to green glue by just using a bucket of high tack non hardening carpet tile adhesive.
Check the ingredients listed on the product and compare those ingredients with carpet adhesive.
@@AcousticFields So I did as you suggested for my own curiosity. I mean I thought my gut feeling was somewhere near the mark but I never expected it to be bang on the money, it's a latex adhesive? seriously?? lol, they are charging 200 dollars for 12 tubes of latex adhesive? and people think a thin smear of this highly expensive latex adhesive between two boards is better than 5mm MLV?, it's nuts.
One can only imagine the green dye is hand crafted by Tibetan monks to account for the 160 dollar price variation vs buying the same product without the dye and branding.
This reminds me of generic over the counter drugs Vs branded. Scientifically proven that generics work just as well for a fraction of the cost yet people go spaff their money on a product that does the same at five times the price because of a logo on the box.
It also reminds me of all the things George Carlin and Bill hicks said of marketing. None of it was in praise thats for sure.
Maybe you should look up decoupling and DAMPING(not dampening🤦🏻♂️) and learn a bit more before you put your ignorance in display, green glue is way too expensive I agree, it also factually works to the degree they claim
@@bonzology322
Maybe you should not presume things of people you know nothing of. I am fully aware of what decoupling is given I have built and used all manner of audio booths to studios over the years and only recently got done soundproofing the house I live in via decoupling.
If you want to spend hundreds of dollars on a green coloured latex adhesive that works no better than two sheets of 40KG Gyproc soundbloc slapped together with a film of carpet tac all for a quarter of the price of using green glue, then by all means you do you, but don't put your head up your arse by both questioning the validity of the science above nor my qualifications in sound engineering nor the evident qualifications and experience of the man speaking above.
Best wishes.
@@Nine-SignsI assume nothing, your ignorance is on full display for any one with an IQ above the outside temperature to glean from, you’ve provided exactly zero scientific evidence to back up your defamatory nonsense, green glue on the other hand has data to back up their claims
So what would be a better realistic (IE: Not just "add another sheet of drywall") alternative? Is it better than nothing? Or no?
J, First, stay away from drywall in critical listening rooms. It can be used as a barrier calculating its density into the room usage. Its usage depends on the pressure level within the room, room size and volume and a host of other variables.
Thank you for this video! It did not make much sense to me but it is promoted on CZcams heavily.
D, Stay tuned. We will be doing another Green Glue Nonsense # 2.
Basically sticking your material with green glue is not reducing sound transmission. I can't speak for the physics behind it, but 10 dB lower would be a perceived halving/doubling in volume. So it's really not doing too much for the noise. I can't speak for math here either, but looks like it's a 3 dB broadband reduction per sheet in the frequencies they measured, and you'd be spending three times as much money, and 3 dB of reduction would only sound about 20-25% quiter to your ears. So your neighbors blasting music and their kids stomping around and banging on stuff would only be slightly quiter if that's the noise source (which in an apartment or condo it probably is). Of generally speaking you can't renovate rentals like apartments, but it's also worth considering for builders. If they can get the same reduction for a third of the price they can also triple up on the cheaper material (I don't think that would result in a 10 dB reduction because there's probably some sort of diminishing return, but it's still better than doing almost nothing).
@@dylanj8676 Lol
Why not make a better product. Seems like ripping your competitors makes you look bad?
You don’t see Pepsi shitting on coke.. they just accept they are not as good
Thank you Sir for the insight. I have a question: I have maximum feasible total thickness for each wall of my diy domestic alto sax booth of 8 cm. Could you recommend the best structure for me? I was planning on doing a double plaster wall on the outside and Rockwell-type material covered with fabric on the inside, all in wooden framing. I know it's kind of junky but the space I am working with I really limited.. thank you!
What is your objective? Is it sound absorption or noise transmission. They are completely different physics and treatment types.
@@AcousticFields My main objective is preventing the old man upstairs from complaining about my incessant practice sessions.. I can hear him cough and sing trough the ceiling so he probably hears me pretty clearly. Mind you, my sax emits hardly any significant sound pressure below 180 hz or so, but nevertheless he can hear me, and the room I am in is fairly asymmetric which is probably why I don't hear any particular note resonating more significantly than others. I know for a fact that he can VERY clearly hear my altissimo range even when playing soft (conversation levels).. thank you for replying!
Well what do you recommend as a cost effective alternative for the walls of a home theater room? I was going to apply another layer of drywall on top of the existing drywall with green glue to sort of 'decouple' the two walls. I'm not working with much space here, as the room is 17' by 15'. I considered using something like MLV in between drywall layers as well, or possibly 'floating' the MLV between two drywall layers.... before you say "it depends on the frequency and amplitute", lets assume we're watching movies at reference levels.. ;P
S, What is the frequency and amplitude of the noise issues you are dealing with? The methodology you are considering will only work for frequencies above 100 Hz.
Its movies dude lol... between 15 and 20,000 Hz... best way to control bass from disturbing neighbors without using too much space in the room?
I live in a block house with drywall. The SVS PB-16 sub laughs at walls..
S, Decoupling walls is a process used for middle and high frequencies. Low-frequency energy barriers require mass and density. When we build rooms from scratch wall thickness approaches 12-14". There is no easy fix for low-frequency issues.
@@AcousticFields Contrary to your video, you just admitted there IS no easy fix for low-frequency noise.
Green glue is not the same as any other adhesive because it remains flexible which allows the the sound waves to be absorbed in between the two layers of sheet rock and converts that energy into a small amount of heat. If you try to use other adhesives they will harden and you will not get the same performance.
F, For what frequency and amplitude are you referring to?
F, There is no energy transformation with glue.
Acoustic Fields Sound turns into heat when air molecules from sound waves go from ordered to disordered movement. The ability of the glue to remain flexible is key because it allows the two layers of drywall to move somewhat independently and air compression which can turn into heat. When frequencies attempt to pass through the layers of drywall and green glue, they get trapped and some frequencies cancel each other out which is the reason for the random application pattern. Im sure there is a better way of applying the glue to more systematically address specific frequencies but for the average builder it makes sense that the current recommended application pattern is the balance between optimal performance and ease of application. if the glue was not flexible it would bind the two layers of drywall somewhat monolithically and be much less sound dampening. I imagine it sort of like a shock absorber on a vehicle. Without that component of flexibility, the vibrations from the road would be transferred to the cab.
Not true. Many adhesives have a silicon base that stays flexible.
@@AcousticFields surprised to see this reply one year later. Lol. Of course some other adhesives have different amounts of flexibility but it’s the degree of which they are flexibly that helps determine their sound dampening quality. That’s why you’ll see some videos testing carpet glue and getting decent results because it has a high amount of flexibility, more than most acrylic or silicone caulks.
Wow. I am glad I saw this.I was about to drop a bundle on green glue. I will use cheaper methods. Thankyou. Any thoughts on Sonopan acoustic panels?
What are the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues? Using material types that you glue together is metodology for middle and high frequency noise. If you have lower frequency noise, this method will not work.
Not that it's very important but where does he get the green glue measurements from?
I can't seem to find it on the green glue website.
That is because they are worthless numbers. Any engineer knows that. Measurements for the sake of numbers has no meaning. It is the application of the numbers that matters. Look at the ingrediants on the product. Compare those ingrediants with standard construction adhesives or carpet glue.
Hello, I am suffering severe impact sounds from the renters above my property. I am planning to take down my ceiling and use sounclips with u-hat channels off of the joists, insulate between joists using 100mm acoustic rockwool slabs, double skin the dropped ceiling in 15mm acoustic soundboard plasterboard. Ideally, I would love to take the floor up upstairs and use an acoustic mat between subfloor and carpet but this is just not possible. Could you help with recommendations to lower the impact sounds from above please?
Without knowing the frequency and amplitude of the noise issues, you are guessing at a fix. Most people guess wrong. You must measure the problem and then we can assist you with the proper barrier design that you can build. We have apps that you can use with your cell phone to measure. We guarantee all of our barrier designs which are based upon noise measurements over a seven day time period.
So Dennis what is this 10 $ sheet you indicate is superior> where do I purchase?
You must measure the frequency and amplitude of all noise issues first and foremost. Choosing a material type depends on those two variables.
Green glue is very effective. I used it in my condo (shared wall). I added green glue to an additional sheet of drywall. I used two tubes per each 4x8 sheet of drywall.
M, What frequency and amplitude were you treating.
Acoustic Fields I could hear my neighbors talking at a normal tone.
M, Now what do you hear ?
Acoustic Fields faint mumbles
M, Using the same material density as you did, you could have gotten rid of those "mumbles". This is the thing with barriers. If you match the material and construction methodology to the noise frequency and amplitude, the noise goes away. No spill over at certain frequencies.
I'm suffering from noisy neighbours and I've invested in alot of drywall and mlv. I've also bought alot of fiberglass insulation. My idea is that to block the noise I need to build a stud wall separate from the party wall and so I'll attach the stud wall to the ceiling,wall and floor one inch from the wall to decouple it. Then add fiberglass insulation between the studs to absorb some sound. Then I'll add mlv over the studs which will be followed by a layer of 15mm drywall, sandwiched with another layer of mlv then topped off with more 15mm drywall! Studs are 4 inches by 1 inch to allow the 100mm fiberglass insulation. I'm sick of my druggy neighbour and her constant noise! I'm so stressed its causing me to have anxiety problems so this is my last resort.
Why are you guessing at the barrier you need to build to stop the noise issue? Using building insulation that was designed to keep your room warm or cold (BTU retention) to reduce noise transmission is never a good use of space or materials. Have you measured the noise you are fighting against? Without noise numbers you are guessing and guessing with noise is a fool's game. You will guess wrong every time. I have been doing this for 40+ years and sometimes I guess wrong in conversation. What chance do you have? Measure twice, cut once.
Using construction adhesive with double layers of drywall will decrease STC from using no adhesive at all. Green glue, however, significantly increases STC value of the wall. Yes it is expensive a but it improves isolation. What is your better/cheaper option?
I'm guessing half inch plywood.
@@brettus9115 well, that doesn't make sense to me. 1/2 plywood has an STC of 3, which is the same as a single layer of drywall. Application with green glue increases that to like 9. For STC calculations only 125hz and up is used because those are the speech frequencies. Averaging in performance at 80hz is misleading because the product never claimed to reduce sound at that frequency.
D, The issue with green glue is that it is promoted as a cure-all for all frequencies when it comes to barrier technology. I receive calls every day from people who have used it expecting that all their noise issues will be resolved. Nothing could be further from the truth. Speech frequencies do not begin at 125 Hz. We design vocal and isolation booths on a monthly basis. Our vocal booths start at 80 Hz. for males and 90 Hz. for females as a result of extensive voice testing. This blanket acceptance by the public of a product that is overpriced, labor-intensive and frequency limited is more about marketing efforts by the company.
D, Sorry, I didn't see your other question. We use a process with our activated carbon similar to the process described in this link which uses graphene instead of carbon. phys.org/news/2019-02-superior-noise-graphene.html. We have to start thinking out of the box and create new technologies just like we have done with our carbon technologies. The days when you stuff a box with building insulation and call it a "bass trap" are over. These companies are going to be extinct, they just don't know it yet.
Hi Darren. I'm doing some research as I am finishing out a vocal booth design for my voiceover biz, and this comment intrigues me. Why would using construction adhesive lead to a decrease in STC vs. using no adhesive? Does "using no adhesive" imply creating a pocket of air instead, or simply something like liquid nails for the second layer?
I have built several small recording studios and i microphone tested before and after.the biggest thing with the green glue is it does not dry hard. it is almost like tacky silly putty.1 can per sheet and screw spacing is also a big factor. spacing is wider apart and is almost floating the panel up off the floor and not touching the ceiling either ,caulked and trimmed.one sheet on another with caulked plywood backing yielded at least 70% of sound transmission. there are other things that need special attention like outlets, doors etc.one small hole from a screw going to far in can bleed sound.it is expensive but in a studio its way cheaper to kill sound than have to fix noise in the mixes. cant polish a turd. and an airlock is needed between the booth and room.
Any silicon based adhesive will stay flexible over time. Green glue is an adhesive, nothing more. Well, I forgot to add, it is a very expensive adhesive.
I was about to order Green Glue when I came across this video. Now I don't know what I should do. I would appreciate any advice:
Our bedroom faces the road and a lot of car/truck noise passing through the road at about 40MPH. The frequency content of the noise is fairly broadband because trucks produce lots of deep tones down to 10's of Hertz and road-noise from cars and bikes can be in the 10KHz range. It can also get pretty loud.
My original plan was to attach noise proofing clips + resilient hat channels onto the existing joists so a new drywall can be installed over it. I was going to apply Green Glue over the drywall and attach another dry wall over that one.
Do you recommend another method?
S, What is the frequency and amplitude of your noise transmission issues?
@@AcousticFields It is right there in my message. I also said it is traffic noise. Are you saying that as a so called 'acoustic expert' you don't know the frequency/magnitude composition of traffic noise? I noticed that you just copy and paste the same question over and over again to every single comment on this video; never actually answering any questions.
Another person asked you about stopping movie noise from a home theater and you asked again what the frequency and amplitude was. You don't know the frequency content of MOVIES?! Jesus, I am starting to see that you aren't interested in actually helping.
S, Traffic noise has different frequencies and amplitudes depending on many variables too numerous to mention. It must be measured for each project. If you don't want to measure then guessing is your only option. I can not assist you with this course of action.
@@AcousticFields Here is an example:
www.researchgate.net/profile/Truls_Gjestland/publication/242515945/figure/fig3/AS:667637692506121@1536188638312/Typical-spectrum-for-road-traffic-noise-25.png
Assume that this is +/- a few dB accurate. So, what is the recommendation?
@@Thesignalpath are you okay?
Im utterly confused to do what to my wall. Every person says something different. Considering tearing my wall out and replacing the fibreglass insulation with safe and sound then using Sonoran. Then people tell me thats useless just use green glue and dry wall. What's the best solution?
Most of the advice on the net is from people who have never built a room in their lives. They just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over. As with any problem, you must define it first and then prescribe the appropriate treatment type, amount, and position TAP. With noise, it is all about frequency and amplitude. What frequencies is your noise transmission at and how strong are they. Different frequency and amplitude issues require different barrier treatment types.
@@AcousticFields Thanks for the response, I am having issues finding anyone who knows anything. I realize every situation is different and its impossible to tell but wondering if I could get your opinion on something. I have a new build townhouse with a party wall with staggered studs, different floor heights, thermo insulation and 5/8 drywall. Does a pretty good job as I usually hear nothing but the TV through the wall. Its a deep bass. Im considering tearing the wall out and putting Roswell safe and sound then throwing on a Sonoran panel and another layer of 5/8s drywall. Think this will make a significant difference and is it even worth it to replace the insulation?
I'm not the most experience in construction but when I saw a video telling everyone to use the green glue for sound proofing I was confused. How? It's just glue. Thanks for confirming.
It has the same ingrediants as carpet glue.
would you ever use sand as a barrier technology?
B, Sand can be used as a barrier technology along with earth. They are both effective at lower frequencies.
B, Yes, we have filled block walls with sand and our carbon technology.
@bentyreman I meet a guy years ago that had a studio/drum room in a backyard shed, I could not believe that I couldn’t here him playing a few feet away from the shed!! I ask him how it was even possible & He told me lots of sand , I wanna say sandbags can’t quite remember for sure it was back in the early 90’s🤘🤘
"Flanking" is sound that is transfered from one space to another by physical gaps between the two spaces.
This product is intended to isolate the sound from one space (room) to another, not for sound treatment in the space (room) you are in.
How well does it work? I dont know, havent tried it myself.
That is exactly what Dennis is talking about` Sound Transmission Loss. He said nothing about room acoustics.
how about using construction glue and NOT using screws, would that help?
Glue rather than screw
I didn't hear an answer to the expense of green glue. What is the $10 comparable fix? I've used green glue and found it worked when all the other sound deadening procedures are followed. You need to cut out around existing electrical boxes big enough that you can get in and wrap them with sound deadening acoustical putty sheets/pads. Move a box that is on the same stud as one in the room your trying to soundproof to another stud. Patch and tape the drywall around any box you had to expose, then follow the instructions for applying the green glue to the second layer of drywall. You should also seal the perimeter of the wall. It may not be the cheapest method but it does work.
B, It works as an adhesive to hold two layers of materials together to keep them from touching each other. If this is your goal then mission accomplished. What it is not is a barrier in and of itself.
Material types are frequency and amplitude dependent. There is no one material type that works in all situations.
@@AcousticFields why do you continue to ignore the "better $10 solution" question?? Myself and multiple people have asked you and you constantly ignore us. This makes you lose credibility instantly in my book!
@@detroyt232323 Because he wants you to buy something from him that has the answers in it.
I plan on turning my detached garage (bare stucco and studs) into a soundproof music/rehearsal space. I am going to do the double wall, double drywall route. I was told that I need to put green glue in between the drywalls. Now I'm hearing that green glue may not be the best thing to use. What should I do? Any tips? Thanks!
A, You must first measure the noise entering the room and leaving the room. Remember there is no such thing as sound "proofing". You must manage the noise issues by first identifying the frequency and amplitude of the noise and then build the appropriate barrier technology. The barrier method you are considering will only work for frequencies above 125 Hz. If its a live room which you describe, you will need a different barrier technology since live rooms are full range.
@@AcousticFields thank you sir. That's the issue. It's full range sound from instruments, so how do I deal with the rest of the frequencies below 125hz?
A, You have to measure the frequency and amplitude over a 7 day time period. Once you have that data, we can design the barrier technology for you and provide you a build drawing that you can build. The design fee is 1,500.00 for this service.
@@AcousticFields the average range for music will be 20hz- 4 khz. An acoustic drum kit would be about 119 db on average.
@@jaredswords3 We use a different range for our studio treatments. We use 30 Hz. - 6,500 Hz.
The cost aside - what's the downside of using that stuff in between whatever insulation (be it MLV or others) you install? Every bit helps, right?
M, It depends on the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues. Does "every little bit helps". No, it does not. With noise, you want to use just enough barrier technology to solve the issues. Spending money and adding material without knowing what frequency and amplitude you are trying to reduce the noise transmission of is a waste of time and money.
Not necessarily. Remember all material types and construction methodologies are all frequency and amplitude dependent.
Maybe the picture they are trying to spread (pun intended) is that with that 1/8 depth layer of green glue acts as a rubber washer (symbolism) & therefore will help prevent vibrations & noise waves from transmitting through the wall... I've never bought or used it btw. But with that principle being applied it does make hypothetical sense.
It is an adhesive with no magical acoustic properties.
It’s not an adhesive and no one claimed it had magical acoustic properties, the only thing more expensive than using green glue is listening to a grifter like this guy
Was almost believing the hype about this amazing magic glue. Thanks for saving me wasting my money
Probably the poorest performing technology with the greatest marketing hype I have ever seen. It rates right up there with foam stops bass, treat the corners of your room, and stuff boxes full of building insulation that cost 1.00 and call it a "bass trap". All utter nonsense.
@@AcousticFields so what is your solution that works better at a similar price point? In one video you mention that you have a "$10 solution that way outperforms Green Glue" but have yet to say what that is. I have seen other viewers ask you the same thing with never responding. Do you have an answer for us? Thanks again
See, he never answers the question. All this guy does is belittle every single proven method under the sun without ever offering up any REAL and helpful advice. What a waste of time.
Still waiting for the answer here @acoustic Fields
@@AcousticFields so what IS the best technology for the price? Will you ever say 🤔
@3:30 you said you can get better numbers with a 1/2 sheet. What was he referring too?
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
@@AcousticFields I have a concrete hollow block garage that I'm looking to insulate and sound proof to convert into a studio. What would be the best 1/2 sheet to use that you are referring to in the video? Are you suggesting I audio test the empty garage before I sound proof?
I just watched a video showing Green glue is more effective than MLV. This did not compute and then watched your video. Thanks!
Its an adhesive, that's it. Are adhesives required in barrier technologies, the answer is absolutely. But we don't need any that claim "magical powers" along with their ability to hold two pieces of solid material together over time.
Can someone explain how he calculated STC difference by using number of octaves and total reduction in 2:02 . Is there an easy way to calculate? As far as I followed, 9 is the number of octaves and 30 is the sum of reduction values in 80-500 Hz. We are working with Rw, Dntw, etc. And basically they are similar but I have never seen this kind of easy method for calculating.
They're not octaves, they're just frequencies that have been measured at. He just calculated the average attenuation at the frequencies reported.
@@narco73 I know that they are the measurement frequencies which are sorted in 1/3 octaves. I am just asking, he summed some differences, reached the 30 and 9 then he calculated sth and said 2.7 to 3 dB. Is it dividing 9/30 and (result is 3.0) then subtract 10% or sth like this.
It is not very accurate but it is useful.
@@akifemekli6993 add up each frequencies reduction value that he stated is on the green glue website. Divide it by the number of frequencies. That's the average reduction across all of those frequencies, which would be the stc value if stc didn't exclude frequencies below 125 for ratings.
whats your thought on Oscar ISO Mount Type 2 for sound proofing ceilings
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
How should I stop neighbors bass coming through party wall in our townhouse?
You will have to first measure the noise and then build the appropriate barrier. You can not treat just the common wall. You must build a new room inside your existing room.
Building a double wall construction with approximately 9” between the outer surfaces of the studs. One layer of 5/8 drywall on one side and double drywall on the other side of 5/8”. The one wall already has R13 pink insulation. Anything else I should consider doing to block out the best range of frequency from high to low? I have read that just regular pink insulation does a better job than something like Rockwool. Should I consider Whisper Clips and hat channel on the double drywall? Much appreciated with any help anyone can provide ! Thank you.
What are the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues? The treatment methodology you are describing is limited in its response and takes up too much space.
Hi, thanks for responding. I actually replied to this exact question from you weeks ago numerous times and you never replied back. I'm a home do it yourselfer if you will. I have a decent stereo system which hits down to 28 Hz and I listen quite loud 95-100 db at times. Just looking for a little direction on how to get the most bang for my buck. I'm not building a super elaborate system here. If you had $500 to throw into 2 walls what would you do? Please help. Thanks so much?
Thanks for ignoring me AGAIN! Wowwww unbelievable
I rather like this video, because after using the stuff in a similar build to one without the green glue - my (admittedly subjective) view is that the sound leakage was not better - nothing I suddenly went wow over. Surely here the problem is that you use it and once you have applied it, you can never know what it really does. I've had more success with an extra layer of MDF, than the huge cost of green glue in terms of attenuation overall. I don't know anyone who has built a structure without it, then replaced a layer with green glue between sheets and measured again. That measurement I'd believe. I have to be skeptical here. Buy new monitors, you hear it - but a very expensive layer of sticky gunge between sheets (and glue seems a good term for it) I just have trouble with.
Hi, just wondering if you are using the MDF or for improving sound in your listening area? Thanks
@@detroyt232323 A trick I did a few builds back in a college. Plasterboard is simply rotten stuff for crashing flight cases into and scuffing from chairs etc - so I added a layer of 18mm MDF to the studio built 6 months before. The extra mass improved the sound insulation and the inner surface takes paint easily. It also has the benefit you can add guitar hangers and other wall mounted things so easily - anywhere. I've used it ever since for the inner surfaces.
@@pauljohnson4590 hi, I'm looking to mainly block sound transmission from a garage stereo through walls into the house. The sub goes down to below 40 db. I've already started tearing out the drywall in the garage and am currently looking for the best, most cost effective ideas on how to approach this. Of course I plan on adding a second layer of insulation and double 5/8". Just don't know if I should incorporate mass loaded vinyl, sound clips or GG. There are so many different approaches and everyone has a different idea on what is best. I have an air gap of about inches to work with. Basically looking for any real world examples of what anybody has done out there. Thanks again!
@@detroyt232323 My experience through adding an extra layer, when I thought I was done, is that it is worthwhile, but green glue has tangible physics, but just subjectively didn't seem to actually work that well, was disgusting stuff and I'm going to never use it again, and if I need more isolation, then that's an extra layer. It also seems less effective on the ceilings because every screw to hold the weight of the panel reduces what effectiveness the soft glue provides - the panels have a path through to the substructure.
@@pauljohnson4590 hi Paul, thanks for answering. Sorry, did you mean the double drywall or GG didn't work? What was the noise source you were trying to keep out. I am building a decoupled wall to keep out a rather large stereo system from going into the rest of the home. Thanks again!
putting a suite in our basement thinking about leaving existing thin carpet in upstairs bedrooms wondering how to finish ceiling in basement. is it worth buying the clips for hat channel is it worth strapping basement suite ceiling is it worth trying to isolate said strapping etc
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
@@AcousticFields just trying to sound proof or dampen as much as possible my basement suite. i am looking at 2 by 12 fir 12 inches on center for my ceiling sounds like i will be forced to use a hat channel and i am thinking i probably should use 5/8 inch fireguard drywall even though i dont have to. wondering about sound dampening drywall and also sono board i think its called which looks to me like donna conna board with holes
QUESTION: I have a VERY rude new neighbor who blasts his TV for hours even after being politely asked not to. It is making me SICK. My plan is to install one layer of 5/8" sheetrock on top of existing drywall and install it on vertical wood beams to create a space between them. Is this enough???? Or do I need to install TWO 5/8" sheetrock on top of each other??? Thanks for any help!!!! PS: What type of caulk do I need to use around the seams???
T, I need to know the frequency and amplitude of the noise issue first and foremost. You can not fight an enemy without knowing how big his guns are or how many troops he has.
Is Green Glue flame resistant?
I'm not so sure after this sick burn!
Our intention is not to burn but to point out that marketing exceeds reality.
How much difference would 2 sheets of 5/8"s vs 1 sheet? Is it worth it? I'm going to do interior soft blankets as well...
We have 4 layers of 5/8 drywall!!
The green glue works!!!!
We soundproofed one room for our baby! We have neighbors upstairs and we can hear the squeaky floor and sounds from their conversation, my sons room is the only room where we can not hear a thing!!!!!! It costs a lot of money to have someone do it, but it was so worth it for us. They did use furring channels and put 4 layers of drywall with green glue!! So worth it...! We wish we could do the whole apt🥺!
ann homyak It’s not the glue, it’s those layers. 4 layers, man.
@@mpelevic lol exactly. although the glue might have helped a little bit
@@levijessegonzalez3629 it helps because it creates an air gap between layers. she basically installed quad paned windows in her childs room. same physics. the price of those materials must've been through the roof, plus over 2" thick of sheetrock without the air gaps the glue would make. it's like the most innefficient and expensive way to do what she wanted. but some people are very happy to pay lots of money for no reason. it makes them feel better i suppose. it's like trying to tell my mom she doesn't need a 3,000 mac book to stream netflix and pay bills online. there's just no point to it. had she used a cheaper/better method, she would've been able to do the whole apartment. and she paid someone to do that to! lol. oh man. got straight hustled, and is thrilled to death about it. oh well.
@@slavesforging5361 wait so your saying glue does indeed help?
Finally I found someone who explain this sht better then me. I’ll show this video to all my builders
There is no one size of materials and construction methodologies that work for all noise situations. This product is nothing more than an over priced adhesive. If you compare the ingrediants you will see that there are no magical acoustical properties.
What’s the product for $10 a sheet, not sure you mentioned it. Thanks 🙏
There are over 100 material types we use in our barrier designs. Every material type and construction methodology is always and must be based upon the frequency and amplitude (strength) of your particular noise numbers. Have you measured the noise numbers for your usage or are you just guessing?
Dennis please prove to us with lab tests that you can truly do this. You are very convincing here, but first off you do put green glue on in a uniform pattern. It is not a true glue adhesive since it works as a damping system. If you claim to get much better results, can you share your lab results for your wall designs? I would be super interested to learn how to get better results. Also how much more money would your design be over using green glue or a double wall system with an air gap and two layers of drywall on each side.
You are using a tactic without a strategy. The double wall system is frequency specific. It only works above 125 hz., and takes up over 10" of space.We attenuate 30 hz. energy in less space. It will not attenuate lower frequencies no matter what the magical powers of any colored adhesive. Compare the ingrediants with any standard construction adhesive.
Amazing, Thanks.
instead of discrediting it completely, perhaps say it's useful when you have the money but dont have the extra 1/2 inch to work with that its a reasonable option for added attenuation. btw appreciate your videos and have watched many
H, The issue with companies that take a material and advertise it as an "acoustical" product is always suspect. I am certain this compound was never designed with "acoustics in mind". This is the problem in the acoustical world. We use building insulation as a sound absorption technology when it's design parameters were BTU retention. We take open - celled foam and call it a "bass trap". Carpet glue becomes a "barrier" technology. The absorption/diffusion treatment of music and voice in small rooms requires more care and concern. Music and voice are different and very special.
H, It does not have any usage when you look at the total sonic strategy for STC. A common belief system is to use it with a double 2" x 4" wall with an air space between each wall. This could be as much as 7-8" of space to achieve an STC of 50 - 55. We typically achieve an STC of 80 - 85 in that space at all frequencies not just above 125 Hz.
@@AcousticFields You don't know what flanking noise is? Hmmm. Exactly how do you achieve an "STC of 80 - 85" in a 7-8" space at all frequencies, not just above 125 Hz? I live in an apartment with a very small bedroom (11' x 11'), near a busy highway. The building is a typical wood-frame structure with brick veneer and fiberglass insulation. I cannot give up extra space. I do not have permission, nor the funds to rebuild the walls with additional studs, resilient channels, or new insulation. The noise I am trying to block is low frequency, high amplitude base music & heavy vehicles which can be heard from blocks away, sometimes causing my windows to vibrate. I'm not trying to build a soundproof recording studio or a theater. I just want a quiet bedroom.
Your video says you can do better than Green Glue with a product that's $10.00 per sheet. But you keep saying you need to know the frequency and amplitude of the sound. Well now you have all the information. Please enlighten us. What is your solution?
@@AB-uc1ft He runs a "business" so I'd be contacting him by email if you are serious. If you are just tyre kicking like 99% of people on here then you more than likely won't get an answer.
My answer to your reply is quality noise cancelling headphones or earplugs and I'm dead serious.
@@brettus9115 Earplugs don't help, and I don't think I could afford his "business". I'm not impressed by his tactics or his claims, and he doesn't seem to be willing to provide much information unless you cough up major $$$. I think he deliberately makes the details sound complex so that he appears that much smarter than the rest of us. I've never met
this guy, but I've dealt with building contractors before -- sorry to say, I don't trust 'em much.
I am about to have a serious conversation with my local officials who seem to habitually ignore the law and let obnoxious imbeciles get away with disturbing the peace 24 hrs. a day. If the government can require that PUBLIC BUILDINGS prevent citizens' exposure to harmful second-hand smoke, why should I be subjected to the harmful effects of second-hand NOISE when I'm in MY OWN HOME?? You want to smoke? You can smoke 'til you croak, but not in my house. I don't care if people blast their brains out with music, as long as they do it SOME PLACE ELSE!
I don't want MY brains blasted, I shouldn't have to spend a small fortune on soundproofing and my income will not permit a move to a "better" location. As I said in my prev. post, mine is more of a traffic problem -- vibrating booms that travel from blocks away, then up and down the street -- huge stereos, trucks, motorcycles, drag racing, you name it. All I want is some peace and quiet. If I can't find that within the walls of my own private residence, what am I supposed to do, live at the library? Sad. . . . .
I can't be sure that anything I say will make a difference. I may continue to get the brush off as I have many times before. Then, I guess it's back to Green Glue! :)
(Yes, excessive noise adversely affects health in many ways, besides just hearing loss. You can read about it at: www.who.int/docstore/peh/noise/guidelines2.html)
I just sold my house and bought another house. The new house is full brick. After a lot of investigation and speaking with people i decided it was cheaper to move house than start a very expensive noise insulation project without any certainty of success. Just an improvement of sound insulation would not be enough and it would have to be stopped completely. Big projects are a huge cost and add no value to your house when selling.
This is another reason you must measure the noise. Noise is expensive and a huge pain. It cost 5-6 times more than absorption and diffusion inside the room. With good numbers, you can select the proper cost effective material types in advance and control costs. No one should spend a dollar more than they need to with noise. Taking the noise numbers, will ensure the proper material selection and acoustic solution. Like you have said, you never get the money you spent on noise back.
Ok I’ll bite, how do you get the better result for $10 a sheet? Please explain because I am in dire need for a low frequency sound solution from an inconsiderate upstairs neighbor that loves to blast their surroundsound system over my bedroom.
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
FYI, this guy does not give you answers.
What's the half-inch of material?
What is the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues?
Thanks. So what us the best option to stop sound entering and saving my room. I have a problem with neighbours doors banging. I can also hear other people's conversations within the house. So I'm probably get to g different frequencies of airborne and vibration.👍🏼✌🏼
B, Barrier technology to reduce noise transmission requires measurement of the frequency and amplitude of the noise and then designing a structure to deal with the noise numbers.
@@AcousticFields thanks. ✌🏼
If you get carpet glue, make sure it's the type that doesn't cure into a solid form, some do and some stay tacky.. Ask the people at the hardware store which one stays tacky and that's the one to get.. Lowe's and Home Depot typically have both types, so be careful. That's if you NEED an adhesive for this type of usage..
People would be better served to not focus on glue but the noise frequency and amplitude issues. Our 14 years of experience with clients and their noise issues, shows us that people dont know what to build or why. They follow blindly with no understanding of why. If you don't know why you will never know what.
@@AcousticFields I know what you're saying.. Here's the reality of what people do.
People fall into 2 or more categories. One does it the right way by going to someone like yourself that's going to charge them for analyzing data from a noise study and giving them the BEST way to build a wall and materials needed to do the job so they don't have to waste time and money failing using another method that's probably not going to work..
The second are those that are just going to go with that is popular and HOPING that it works that costs less money. But what usually happens is it doesn't work and they just found out the hard way that it was going to be cheaper in the long run to do it the right way..
I was just suggesting that "IF" they were to use carpet glue with the double drywall/green glue method, just get the tacky carpet glue and at least save money…. Because unfortunately, some people have to learn by failing first.
@@AcousticFields I just found out that one studio owner has a shared wall against another studio that creates video soundtracks and on the shared wall, they just kept on adding more Drywall hoping that was going to work. I think they're currently at 6 layers of Drywall on one side of the shared wall.
That's how committed to drywall.. You can tell them all day long that Drywall is not the best method, and no matter what you tell them, they won't listen to you…
I'm wondering at what point they're going to realize that Drywall isn't going to stop the energy below 125hz. :-)
@@Oneness100 They do not understand that noise transmission is vibration management. Adding more layers of the same density of material type is not a cost effective approach in money or space requirements. You must reduc e vibrations by forcing them to go through multiple layers that are frequency and amplitude sensitive to the noise that is transmitting.
@@AcousticFields I realize that, they just have a fixation with Dry wall, and it's painfully obvious that it's not working.. I've never seen 6 layers on one side alone, I don't know what's on the other side. I'm wondering when are they going to realize that they need to tear down and start over..
Read on avsfourms that commercial theatres use just double dry wall each side of a 12” air gap between theatres, seems to block everything other than very low bass but even then its hugely reduced. How many times you heard the movie in the next room in a theatre. Dennis is this method work in a home setting?
S, Using a 12" air gap is a waste of space when it comes to low frequencies in smaller rooms. It is better to use mass and density for smaller room volumes.
Acoustic Fields how do they get away with that in commercial theatres?
S, Mass and density over large room volumes requires lots of square footage of materials which increases cost. Using air as a barrier is cheaper but not as effective.
This is triple leaf
So what should I use instead of green glue?
What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues? All materials used within a barrier are frequency and amplitude dependent.
@@AcousticFields how do i find out my amplitude and frequencies?
My thing is for vocal recording booth for mucic creation mostly with one or two singer or an instrument per time!
What's the 1/2" material that is $10/sheet?
There are many material types. What are the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues?
@@AcousticFields I was referencing your comment at 3:26 "I can get you better numbers with 1/2" of material at about $10/sheet." What is the sheet you're talking about?
The product is misnamed - it is not a glue. It is a viscoelastic compound that does not harden, and other construction adhesives (except a very few exceptions) do not stay fluid. There is a lot of scientific evidence that this concept works, and works very well. Because the product does not harden, when a sound (not low frequency sound) meets this layer, it absorbs the vibration and converts it to heat, thus, attenuating the vibration. Like any viscoelastic compound, it works better at certain frequencies and not at others. You could combine different viscoelastic in different layers to maximize sound absorption.
I agree that this stuff is stupidly expensive. There are other options which perhaps work nearly as well, but at a much lower price point. I suggest trying Roberts 3095, which is a carpet glue. It likely is not quite as effective, but costs a lot, lot less. There is a video on the Web which demonstrates the effectiveness of green glue versus Roberts 3095 versus construction adhesive, the benefits are obvious. czcams.com/video/UtxduYYXoVY/video.html
I have watched many of your videos with great interest - this one falls flat....
The benefits of green glue fall flat in comparison to other options for the price.
Better off getting MLV and an extra layer of drywall.
the point of green glue is not to air seal... it is formulated to remain elastic over its life rather than dry hard. This is suppose to decouple the 2 pieces of sheetrock
Any standard, silicon based, construction adhesive will accomplish this objective.
@@AcousticFields horseshit, Green Glue is a damping compound whereas silicone sets like rubber. You talk about it like it is an adhesive or a barrier. Clueless! The fact that you do a video about this material and don't once mention the principle of CLD shows that you either don't know what you are talking about or are deliberately misleading people. Probably a bit of both...
I was using Mono Acoustic Sealant but it leaves a really strong odour. It’s really sticky as well. Green glue smells like school glue and is alot thinner in density. Green glue has been a very disappointing experience to say the least.
Keep up the good work Dennis.
It is just standard construction adhesive that has been marketed to the uniformed as a magic elixer. It is neither magical or a fix that can be obtained with other non magical products. People like easy when it comes to noise. What is easier than a magic glue? No magic here just misinformation.
I've seen on a different youtube channel, explain that the green glue is supposed to work by creating air pockets between the drywalls. (I dont know if it actually works tho).
It is an adhesive, nothing more. You can achieve similar results with standard construction adhesives.
@ Acoustic Fields - you say something very different on your own website. You state that it works, but there are "better" options that you say you use, but won't reveal them haha. I bet you use Green Glue as well
@@AcousticFields it’s not even an “adhesive” I’ve used green glue and doesn’t stick as other caulking, adhesive or not. Green glue stays “gooey” forever (doesn’t harden or rubberize). It wipes off with water very easily even well after curing. Saying it’s an adhesive because their name has “Glue” in it is a perfect example of “judging a book by its cover”
@@yosh1to that proves that it is not an adhesive.
Brilliant Video good sir! I hate the whole "sound to heat" USP they scream about. Absolutely anything in the world that has mass does that! Its a fundamental law of physics.
In my experience the adhesive between plaster boards does absolutely sod all for the money apart from stick the boards together
Its more marketing speak than anything else.
Place simple tar paper between the dry wall layers? Just use Green Glue or a substitute on the studs before attaching the dry wall? Use highly textured paint on walls to break up the sound vibrations?
The science of sound proofing should be a college curriculum with constant testing and analysis.
Every material type and installation methodology is frequency and amplitude dependent. The industry has taken something complicated and simplified things to a point that nothing they suggest will work in most noise transmission issues. We see it everyday. People guess at the frequency and amplitude of their noise issues and then go on the internet and use a methodology that won't work for their noise frequency and amplitude issues even though the company promoting the nonesense states that it will. They then fail after spending thousands and then call us. Most of the time I have to tell them to tear it out and start over. Few are willing to do that and must live with their failure. Why spend thousands to fail. We guarantee all of our barrier designs provided we have a noise time study. A small fee and price to pay for a guaranteed solution. 100 % fixed 100% right.
Great, saved me from waiting to get supply, I can just go the the hardware store to get the ordinary glue.
Use a silicon based construction adhesive. You may not need glue at all. A multiple layered technique works for some noise but not all. Have you measured your noise issues?
I see a lot of people saying that they added Green Glue and a second layer of drywall to the existing single layer...and how the result was a dramatic drop in sound transmission...but why do they think it was the Green Glue that made the big difference?
I would say it was really the second layer of drywall...but no one seems to test it both ways, they just include the Green Glue and assume that was the magic that made it work.
TBH...I have been very skeptical about the Green Glue, and think that if you want to apply some kind of dampening between two layers of drywall...there are other, much cheaper alternatives in a tube. Just go to your local Home Depot. All you need is something that doesn't harden when dry...and there are plenty of those...and that will give you the dampening effect. Sorry...Green Glue is WAY more hyped than its value, considering the ridiculous price/tube...which comes from the hype. Also...anything that is water based will probably dry out as the water content evaporates over time...but how many have ever peeled apart two layers of drywall treated with Green Glue to check this in say...5-10 years time...?
M, Yes, yes, yes. They have elevated an adhesive to the level of a barrier technology. Now, if the green glue layer was 1" thick, we would have something to speak about.
I lived in an apartment complex with 2 layers of drywall between each unit that was supposed to decrease noise transferred through shared walls. I can attest to the fact that the extra layer of drywall did nothing. I could hear everything my neighbors did and said, above, below, and next door.
What was in the walls...between the studs, anything? Most audio wall construction talks about multi-layer mass VS single layer. Just the drywall isn't going to stop all sound, but more mass is better then less mass.
I’m not sure where you got only a -3db attenuation? I just treated our rehearsal room-double 5/8” Sheetrock with green glue in between. I measured bands rehearsing outside of our room and inside our room before and after the work. it used to be single 5/8” on either side and now two 5/8” and green glue. I have 35 dB of attenuation when before I had 10 dB. So it was a 25db difference. This was using C weighted dB meter. The difference is considerable. Could it have also been considerable with other materials? Maybe.
R, What frequencies did you measure?
Acoustic Fields as I said-I was using a c weighted db meter in real world conditions (rehearsal rooms with other bands rehearsing in their own (untreated) rooms. I took measurements in the hall and in my room over several days as the construction was underway. The loudest band would hit 102 dB (!!!) and going in my room would drop it to 65 dB where before construction I was getting down to 85-90 db.
STC ratings mean more than word-of-mouth, right? From this video it sounds like you are saying to just use 1/2” Sheetrock (or from watching your other video-plywood). I’m in a commercial building so I can only use 5/8” type-x Sheetrock. STC rating of single 5/8” and insulation is 44-45. STC rating of doubled up 5/8” and green glue is 55. If you do it right with the hat channel, etc then STC is closer to 65. I’m not trying to troll or anything (I need to go finish putting up Sheetrock in my control room), but I have a hard time understanding where you are getting the poor results you are talking about.
But what frequencies though? I'm sure it helped some with say guitars. But a kick drum? Adding that 2nd layer of drywall for mass helped definitely. The glue, I'm doubtful. 20-100hz is a good test range.
BrysNightWorld nothing except tons of mass and tons of distance does anything at those frequencies. That’s why STC ratings don’t even go below 125hz. Green glue (nor anyone else) is making claims that anything helps those low frequencies (unfortunately). The only way to do anything about that is try and do super thick walls with concrete, rock, adobe, etc, but even that is not going to totally stop stuff unfortunately.
guys help me... The tenant upstairs walks constantly in his living room and the ceiling of my bedroom creaks and the noises rumble. In the last two weeks I have tried to fall asleep with earplugs and drinking herbal teas to be able to fall asleep but the noises continue even after 11 pm so I can fall asleep very late when the noises stop. The noises reverberate and are dull noises
you have to build a room within your room-- walls attached to a new ceiling where none of the sides touch the existing framework. 2×6 construction fully insulated will really help.
Perhaps you could route the vent from your boiler into the ceiling then seal it up with green glue. The upstairs tenant wont be walking around much longer with all that carbon monoxide floating into his living room.
F, Why are you recommending a 6" stud wall without knowing frequency and amplitude of the noise issue? Guessing with noise is a fool's game. Guessing with noise will produce failure rates exceeding 90%. And here is the issue with guessing and building on the guess. You will have to tear it all out and start over when it does not work. All of this guessing can be stopped with noise measurements.
I live in an Apartment Building so I can't do any major attachment to walls to reduce noisy neighbors sound. I saw a relatively effective way of making sound proof panels out of old fluffy towels from Goodwill stapled in layers to 3" x 3" wood frames. It was measurably more effective than other materials. In dry-walled and supposedly insulated interior walls, how could I improve soundproofing? I have been in the NIH in DC and they used White Sound frequencies that were very effective. I am watching your DIY videos and I thinking combination of white/pink/gray sound and carbon material. It's basically just a 16' x 8' dry wall area I really need to keep sound out. Maybe plywood membrane, "free standing" except for a few screw holes.
D, You are confusing barrier (noise) technology with sound absorption technology. Sound absorption panels inside your room will not help with noisy neighbors.
You've been asked several times what method you have that will work better for $10 and no answer. I will ask it a different way to see if I can get to the answer. What product of yours do I need to purchase that will tell me how to better mitigate the transference of walking noise, TV and talking noise from my first floor to and from my basement? I would like to try and dampen those sounds in my basement and had planned on using roxul and 2 pieces of 5/8 drywall with GG which is going to be expensive so I would be willing to purchase one of your products that would show me a better way that costs much less I just need to know which product of yours I need to purchase? I don't need a sound studio or media room I just want to reduce the everyday common noises from walking on wood floors, talking and TV noise is all I'm looking for. Thanks.
And I have said many times and I will say it once again, every noise situation is different. You are looking for a one size fits all and you will never find it. Let me repeat the question one more time that must be answered, what are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
@@AcousticFields How would your average home owner go about measuring the frequency and amplitudes of various household noises?
@@MrScubby65 this does make me a little crazy. One size does not fit all but how many sizes are there? You do not reinvent the process every time. This is very convincing video to not use green glue but with no alternative. Leaves you spinning. We are all dealing with the same range of problems. So just put the two layers of drywall up with nothing in-between? Save the $$ no difference? Not sure...
@@AcousticFields Useless troll. People want to control the noises of everyday life and there are solutions that work.
Sure does trick a lot of homeowners. We drywall and have had homeowners ask us to apply this crap. We simply decline the job. Use heavy guage resilient channel instead.
Yes, a better use of materials and labor at most frequencies of issue within that material type and construction methodology.
Sir you are wrong. I have used it for my home theater and it is VERY effective.
What frequencies was it effective at? We get calls everyday where people are disappointed with the low-frequency attenuation. Did you add materials to this process? Do you have before and after numbers?
Opinions vary
I m sure you didn't have anything to compare, just went right to the green stuff.
Green glue is not an adhesive.
It is intended to dampen sound waves that transfer through Sheetrock .
It stays visco elastic and dampens sound waves through friction of the material between the two panels .
It is a latex polymer .
That stays visco elastic in colder temperatures than any other product.
However, if you live in warmer climates Roberts 3095 is all you need.
There is a noticeable difference when using them .
They are not a use or not kind of thing.
If you use another sheet, you still should use a visco elastic sandwich in your assembly.
You are not trying to create a membrane between the panels.
A continuous membrane would be bad.
It's proven tech.
And easily noticeable when used without.
I wouldn't use it if I lived somewhere that gets cold though.
And where it's warm you only need Roberts 3095.
So in my opinion green glue is only good if you can afford it, where it gets cold. Even then, some months it would do nothing if not warmed up.
It's still a good thing though.
H, Why is it called "glue". Is it limited to dampening "waves" or does it work with "rays" ? Does it only work with sheet rock or will it "work" with other material types?
Acoustic Fields I think it's called "glue" because it was intended to replace Roberts 3095 carpet glue.
3095 / green glue works between any sandwich/ material assembly .
It's not much but every bit counts that doesn't take up room.
The 3095 is dirt cheap.
So in here in Hawaii the Roberts 3095 is perfect for me. Plus it's an actual adhesive, so that's a bonus for me.
Review their tech data for additional information on the green glue, I just was pointing out that some of the things you were stating weren't exactly what the manufacturer is claiming .
I personally detest Green glue.
I've tested it against Roberts 3095 and where it's warm the Roberts marginally beats the green glue.
I have a custom cut trowel for applying.
It's the more HP per dollar for me as shipping and square footage is insane here.
H, Yes, it did replace carpet glue. That should tell you a lot about the basis for this product. You are correct. It is not much and every little bit does not help. The problem with the name and marketing efforts of the company is that it plays upon the ignorance of the naive. Once again, you must measure the frequency and amplitude of the noise you are building a barrier against and then use the appropriate materials to deal with those frequencies and amplitudes. In over 155 builds to date, we have never used it. There are too many other options to consider with much better performance parameters.
Acoustic Fields what materials do you recommend? I’m about to purchase a box of green glue, but if you can tell me what would be better and cheaper, I’m all ears.
U, What is the frequency and amplitude of your noise issues?
I've always been a sceptic of green glue- I've never used it but have worked on several music studios in nyc. I think resilient channel is pretty good though. As long as all the edges are sealed so that there is a true sealed air pocket between layers of 5/8 rock- you are getting best bang for your buck
D, All materials used in any barrier design are frequency and amplitude-dependent. You must use materials that deal with your noise numbers. There is no short cut. You must measure, design, and build the correct structure. There is no one size fits all.
@@AcousticFields most music studios have the same criteria in terms of frequency, your stock phrase for avoiding giving a helpful answer is wearing thing...
It seems like you don't want to give or don't have any answers. Let me ask you this. If you were me and building a home theater where you will get all sorts of frequencies and amplitudes from all different types of movies, how would you sound proof your home theater? Cost is important to most, so assume we are not rich.
M, When you say "all sorts of frequencies and amplitudes" are you referring to full range noise energy from 30 Hz. - 16,000 Hz. ? Let's use this frequency range for noise illustration. My next question is what is the noise amplitude you will have below 100 Hz. ? I need it broken down at 30 Hz. 35 Hz, 40 Hz. - 100 Hz. Every 10 cycles of energy below 100 Hz. must be quantified with numerical values.
Hmm, let me see. Do you want it listed per each movie I will watch over the next ten years. Or something more specific?
@@D-Allen Please don't waste my time with nonsense. Guessing with noise is a fool's game.
@@AcousticFields literally has zero answers
@@maxlee6676 True statement.
Hi, Dennis- My understanding is that the purpose of Green Glue is not only as an adhesive between two panels but also to prevent the two panels from making physical contact with each other, creating a small air space between them to help diminish sound transmission. Also one of your videos, czcams.com/video/ZNZrJKigSQQ/video.html, shows a diagram of a barrier where Green Glue was used. Please clarify both of these points. Thanks.
S, Keeping two layers of materials from touching each other has no use if you do not know what you are trying to stop the transmission of.
@@AcousticFields Another VAGUE reply.
Don't confuse sound attenuation of constant noise and damping. GG creates a constrained layer. Constrained Layer Damping is actually what is achieved with GG in combination with rigid sheets. This video doesn't even mention CLD, a common engineering technique. You don't always need to attenuate continuous pink noise... when dealing with music, especially live music, you have to deal with impulsive noise. If that peek energy dissipates faster, you actually get a significant reduction of perceived noise transmission. This french distributor has done very interesting in house testing with a vibrant pot and accelerators. It shows the result of using GG between plaster sheets : www.akustar.com/tech/147a_i_glue.htm and for more info on CLD : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping
You are missing the issue. No matter what construction methodology and material type you use, they both must be matched to the frequency and amplitrude of the noise issue. None of the materials or contruction methods you are propsing as examples will attenuate much below 125 hz. Most noise we see is from 30 hz. - 8K.
@@AcousticFields You are still confusing insulation and dampening. And you still don't take CLD into the picture.
What's the 1/2" of material you mention at $10 which provides similar results? (is that another layer of drywall?)_
S, You must look at the total frequency and amplitude picture. There is no one answer for all applications.
He wont tell you the answer he just wants to sell things to you.
@@wd41 L, There is no one answer as I have stated before numerous times. If you give me the frequency and amplitude of your specific noise issue then I could assist you. Otherwise, your comments are just noise.
@@AcousticFields I doubt it, there's a bunch of specific questions in these comments that you don't answer, like this one about your "$10 material" and the guy who says he's building a home theatre and you still can't advise him, you fob him off saying you can't answer unless he breaks it down all the movies he watches into 10 Hz bands! Either you have never dealt with a home theatre (unlikely!) or you are just fobbing him off. Just be honest and either don't reply or say "please hire us and we will create a solution"
@@wd41 What are the frequencies and amplitudes of your noise issues? What are the frequencies and amplitudes of your noise issues? What are the frequency and amplitudes of your noise issues?
you are like the Einstein of acoustic sound. Glad i watched this video and saved me a lot of money. I kinda knew even a silicon glue would the same as green glue but im not spending on that green sh$t. Im sticking to my 1/2 drywall and maybe a roxul safe and sound insulation for minor soundproofing. Thank you!
E, Its not a cost effective solution. There are many other methods to achieve better results that will actually increase attenuation at lower frequencies.
Acoustic Fields I do not agree. You name the products that are better and more cost effective and I’ll let you know if you are correct. I bet you can’t. You haven’t answered a single question in these comments. -rolling my eyes- shaking my head...
Einstein never did any practical science and just drew formulas on a blackboard to match what he wanted to believe... so yes this guy IS like einstein.
@@AcousticFields If there are so many other more effective methods, why won't you stop bragging and TELL US WHAT THEY ARE??? WHAT'S THE BIG SECRET??
@@AB-uc1ft Because @acoustic fields is not being paid to do so. You'll have to buy a subscription to his website, buy his ebook, commission a $10,000USD consultation. Dude's a snake oil salesman. Stick with John L. Sayers, John, H. Brant, Bob Katz etc. The dudes who actually know what they're talking about aren't waving their hands talking condescending shit while saying nothing like like con artists, grifters and magicians. They just spit facts directly.
It's a recording studio. I want to attenuate 20hz-125hz. 125hz-20k. Duh. For someone acting like the smartest guy in the room replying to every comment with "it depends on what frequency you want to attenuate" is retarded.
Hi! Thanks for your helpful video on green glue. I'm enjoying looking around your channel at other videos too.
I'm looking to build replacements for (or modify) standard hollow-core doors on the bedrooms in my residence to reduce sound transmission. The main focus is to increase privacy by reducing sound carrying outside the room. The main focus for noise reduction would be conversation and - ummm - lets say other vocal sounds. If the solution also helps decrease transmission of lower frequencies that would be a welcome bonus.
I already know I will be using a drop-down neoprene seal at the bottom of the door, plus a neoprene seal around the perimeter - I'm thinking more door construction technique. Even better would be a way to modify the existing hollow core doors to increase their performance.
I would appreciate any advice, direction or thoughts you can give on this project :)
Use solid core (2) doors with a 1/4" mass loaded vinyl layer between each door. Make sure your seal is air tight.
@@AcousticFields Thanks! I presume you mean I should take 2 solid core doors and attach them together with a layer of MLV in between?
Should they each be bonded to a side of he MLV? Or screwed together?
May I ask for your thoughts on a thinner solution? Something that come to 1 3/8"-1 1/2" total thickness?
Glue and edge band.
Never made sense to me how green glue could do a dam thing
What people don't realize is that any adhesive is just one tactic used towards a barrier design strategy. You measure noise first to identify frequency and amplitude, then you design the appropriate barrier technology to attenuate that specific noise frequency and amplitude.. Adhesive by nature is important to keep the layers together but attributing any noise transmission qualities to it as a single element in the equation is naïve to say the least.