5 Reasons to Your Keep Historic Wood Windows
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2020
- Full Video from Brent Hull - buildshownetwork.com/blogs/5_...
Brent Posts a video EVERY SINGLE MONDAY at buildshownetwork.com/go/brent... make sure to tune in every week!
WHY we should restore our windows instead of replacing them.
The first of 2 videos on window restoration. This one explains WHY we should keep our historic windows. Brent talks about historic character, wood quality and longevity, cost, ease of and of course energy efficiency. Understand the reasons why historic windows are longer lasting, better designed windows than new windows.
Follow along behind the scenes at / thebuildshow
Thanks. I decided to keep my 1990's single pane plus energy panel by marvin thanks to this video. While they are not historic my late father put the windows in. so they are historic to me ❤️
I'm a woodworker and build historic wood windows. I like everything you said but I'd add that we can actually build an old style wood window like these with insulated/double pane glass and exactly in the same style as these. They have the same classic look but have the insulative qualities of modern windows. Thanks for the video!
how would the cost for one of your custom made windows compare to an Anderson or Marvin wood window?
Love this! I’ve restored all the sash windows in my house here in Detroit and the open upper sashes during Summer make for superb ventilation. I made matching storms w/ low cost DIYer machines from Harbor Freight, a used mortiser and recycled 2x4s from abandoned houses. This wood is phenomenal! Growth rings up to 500 years sometimes on studs thicker than 2”. The expensive part was the router table set up, but unquestionably worth it. It’s all about The stability and beauty of this old lumber is truly remarkable.
Just bought an old, 2 story, bank that was built in 1914. I’ve been researching how to improve the windows and this was an excellent video for me! Thank you!!
Just started my 1921 bungalow remodel and was about to tear out the double sash windows... This videos timing is perfect.
@@Fetecheney Great, now your house will leak forever!
@@ryanroberts1104 because I'm keeping the old windows? I have 30" overhangs and my main floor is 36" above ground. Moisture hasn't been an issue at all.
@@Fetecheney I'm not talking about water. Your house has leaked air forever, and if you don't get rid of those windows it will never stop.
@@ryanroberts1104 oh yeah, that's true. I'm hoping the storm window helps, but at some point an old house is just an old house...
My 1914 Minnesota craftsman had its original screens and wooden storm windows which hang on the outside hinges and cover the sash windows and most of the outside trim. I spent a couple of hours changing them in spring and fall. Some I left in all year. The prior owners kept them in perfect condition. At 100 years old they were ready to run another 100 years. My house had heating bills seriously lower than those of my friends similarly sized modern houses in the suburbs.
Now I live in the southwest in a modern house with modern dual pane windows which I would describe as shit. Cold, leaky and in winter I can lay a hand on a window pane and know exactly what the temp is outside.
Lived in a house built in 1840, in Ohio, parents never did any upgrades to the windows and I froze. When I moved out , my mom had them rebuilt, low and behold my old room was nice and comfy. Then again a proper fitting storm window made a heck of a difference
They just wanted you out 😂
did they change them to new windows or just repaired/restaurated them
I built our house in 88 and insisted on a "historic style " window. I chose M&W with grids that are at their smallest point 7/8 of an inch. I had to put storms on but builder said after a while you won't see them. True. I had issues with brick moldings and added bull nose treatments. Now with pvc=no more rot. The attic window which catches a lot ended up with a pvc bull also. I read all the repair issues with name brand replacement windows. One company now says "you may need new windows even if you bought them as little as 7 years ago. If doing it today I would go the same way. Oh, those early issues were do to poor calking by original painters.🦇
My first home was a cottage style built in 1929. Lath and plaster with the original windows. If I recall they all worked with not rot. Real 2X4's on 24" centers. Living in So Cal did not use the heater and the blankets and sweat shirt did their job.
Perfect! Just what we needed 👌🏽
Shutters and screens are key here. Hope there is data coming with this example about comfort and efficiency.
Cant believe this info is free, cant wait for part 2
Carsten - Part 2 and way more are available for free at buildshownetwork.com/go/brenthull
@@BuildShowNetwork I'd love to see how you go about fixing a window that the jam is racked so the meeting rail doesn't come together. Do you cut the sash to fit, or somehow cut the jam and square it up? Inside my house I've cut the jam on doors to square them up so the door hangs perfectly, but I'm a little nervous to do that on an exterior penetration like a window. Many guys just say to cut the bottom of the sash, but it seems like that would look weird.
Your editor might need to clean that interesting music bit out of the video at @9:22.
You're keeping me awake at night with your 5 reasons to your keep historic wood windows video is worded.
In my childhood bedroom I had an early 80’s Andersen double-hung. Loved that I could open the top sash or both too and bottom.
As an adult, every single apartment and now my own new home have single-hung. I miss the top sash being able to open.
I think get the best windows money can buy for a tight-house. For an older or standard-build, save the old ones and restore like this video shows or go with a more standard window to offset dozens of years before ROI.
They still make double hung windows the same as others, maybe cost a tad more because there is more functionality. The windows in my house were replaced about 10 years ago with vinyl double hung double pane windows. They aren't high end windows by any means but they are nice. And they fit right in where older windows were with some nice original woodwork around the sills.
Very interesting points.
Though it definitely goes against Matt's most recent video about priorities for building and remodeling. If the most critical issue is air sealing, how do you achieve that goal with the sash weight cavities being so air leaky and completely uninsulated?
I have 40+ very large windows in my historic 1888 built WI home, and my current windows are so incredibly leaky it leads to a lot of discomfort. So information on how to renovate an old double hung window to a better level of air sealing would be a great help.
I cut a piece of 2" polyiso and put it in the weight pocket. Still plenty of room for the weight. Spring Bronze weather stripping all around and it'll last 100+years
The only way to seal up an old window is to cover it with another window.
Great visual
Thanks for making this video. We just bought a 1930s home, and you convinced us not to replace them. Looking at restoration videos, it looks tedious but straightforward.❤
I have had all 22 windows in my 1903 house tuned up and weatherstripped. I have had wooden storm windows with swappable inserts made for six of them so far, and intend to make the other 17 myself.
Matt: You should consider a triple pane window
Brent: Hold my beer
Matt is correct. Triple pane window have a lot more comfort. Sound, cold spots. and so on. And this type of windows i don't like they leak. Use mashies to ventilate.
Triple storm panel 🤣
@@72strand unfortunately, there are many more factors are at play: enclosure, climate zone, mechanicals, your budget, etc. The short answer like Peter Yost like to say, "it depends". Generally for a retro fit, I would like to say, adding a triple track storm is a much better investment than replacing the old leaking window with a much expensive european windows.
Great video! It’s amazing how the quality of old windows or better than new windows and they didn’t even use power tools
Nothing about that window is better than new. He's trying to compare them to the cheapest garbage windows available, and that is not a valid comparison.
1980 built house, wooden windows, metal framed storms. Going to do repairs and keep. Have already replaced outside window seals which drain down. The bottom storms are about 3/8 inches short. Need an extender ??
Very interesting claim. It goes against everything I have heard but maybe that’s all marketing. I would love to see more data supporting this. And can you restore a window to be double paned?
It goes against all common sense and there is no "data" to support anything. The only thing Brett is trying to say is they look good and he wants to make love to old windows. Even that is an opinion, not data. Energy wise, they are the worst thing you can have other than just a hole in the wall.
There is a paper that shows the pay back periods. I'll find it once I am on a pc
@@shahsmerdis a month later we're still waiting on those numbers Bardia! 😆
@@eddienolan7129 So sorry Eddie, REALY SORRY ! forum.savingplaces.org/HigherLogic/System/DownloadDocumentFile.ashx?DocumentFileKey=80dc79b4-3814-59ac-9abe-842685e77747&forceDialog=0 Here ya go!
Credit geos to the person who posted it when I asked about it here few months ago www.houzz.com/discussions/6025761/how-much-better-are-new-high-end-window-vs-old-windows-storm
from my own diy window repairs: yeah double paned windows can be made if someone is handy, but generaly the thing is plastic windows last shorter... but seal tight. A personal example: one of my houses is a twin house i.e. it had an exact copy buukt next to it in 1912, the other half was renovated after a smaller house fire in the 60s, and then again in 2019 and the new plastic windows seal so well that the house is having moisture, mold and smell issues... as the 60+ cm thick brick and mud walls have not been hydro isolated nor does the neighbour ventilate the house as per needs... still at winter their house is not hoter nor are their bills that much smaller. (we both use gas convetors) but my house is not yet renovated, i.e the windows are still untouched 1912 windows (my repairs run into a halt during the pandemic)
Really nice! -- QUESTION -- Brett, what about the weight pocket and insulation? Is there a strategy for insulatting that space in cold climates? Also, I am trying to get my girl brain around the way that the weight system works... Is there a way to make both the upper and lower sash use the same exact weight? It might be possible with a small pully attached to the top of the weight and looping to the upper sash.
I have a 1913 in Michigan. Restored two windows in one room. Complete, reglaze, fresh paint/stain, spring bronze, ton of work! Result, still drafty. They are getting replaced. I tried.
Great video, I know you said that the next video is going to be talking about glass. But can we get a video that shows the restoration process?
Kyle you can watch all of Brent‘s content at buildshownetwork.com/go/brenthull
@@BuildShowNetwork I thought I had seen all of them already... Wierd. I'll check it out
¡qué grandes ventanas!
I have old windows, my house was built in 1918. My question is, what do you do about them being single pane? I have condensation issues every morning in the whole house being here in Indiana where it is hot and humid. I run a dehum all of the time but it can't keep up. Wouldn't double pane windows provide an insulative barrier to help that? I know I just need to try and air seal better, I'm in the middle of a remodel, but I've been planning on replacing all of my windows until watching this video so now I'm not sure what to do. Anyone have any thoughts?
Yes, the only way to deal with condensation is double pane windows. Even storm windows rarely fix that.
@@ryanroberts1104 Ok, thanks for the reply.
He sounds like warren Beatty in his role in the movie Heaven can wait.
millions of old houses that retain original wood sashes and casement housing
The trade is passed down from the old guys to the younger crews and remodeling companies that take up where the old guys left off,,advantages of wood windows,,,wood is fibrous with millions of air spaces and oils which if properly treated insulate against cold hot,drafts and noise from outside,also they are mechanically more simple in function,repair and maintainence,,linseed oil turpentine,small hand tools,glazers pumice or cerium oxide to make glass polished ,clear, and squeaky clean of grit dirt and film.inside and out. 100 year old window sashes and window trim, can be made to last another 50 to a hundred years,
also correct seating of the glass in a thin uniform bead of oil putty sharp edges sanded..
down means the window will take hard slams without shattering or cracking,
I am upset of people who replace windows. I have historic windows and I am happy with them.
I believe that your premise is true FOR HOUSTON! I’m up here in Wisconsin, building zone 6. Trust me, you do not want to hop in the shower at 7:00 am (the coldest pre-dawn hour) in front of an antique R1window while stark naked and dripping wet! My decision to use modern triple glazed European windows is a choice for comfort-not an economical choice. And before you get to it -yes my window is R7. I am a 5’3” grandmother. Putting storms up (while. balancing precariously on a ladder) also has zero appeal. I admire your zeal for old millwork, sometimes there are other considerations!
You do know storms can be installed from the inside and on the inside as well?
No. I did not know that. My Craftsman Cottage is setup for exterior storms. How do the interior storms work?
More importantly, how do I adapt cool antique Craftsman windows for interior storms?
@@lindacgrace2973 the most basic of DIY is the plastic film and tape box kit from the big box store. Its double sided tape that goes on the window trim than a plastic film that you stick to that. Or the same as in the video where he changed the screen for the storm that can be on the inside. Everyone with double hung windows thinks the screen or storm window is always on the outside but if you have casement windows (crank open) the screen is on the inside.
If you watch again imagine he is inside the house placing the screen or storm facing the interior.
@@timothydillon6421 I used the film, which helped with the draft (the old windows rattle in their sashes). But, I didn't get nearly as much improvement as I got from upgrading to R7 window in the bathroom. Also, the plastic is visually unappealing. Thanks!
But what’s the 15% yellow piece of the pie?
I love my 20 old double hung traditional windows in my 1914 high desert mansion house. I just finished removing, sanding, priming, re-roping the counter weights and reinstalling them. They do act like convention coolers to flush the house with cool and fresh night time air all night long. They are beautifully awesome!
You know they still make modern double hung windows that don't leak and require constant maintenance, right? Brent is an idiot if he is trying to tell people double hung windows no longer exist. Not only are they still around, they are much better than before because they have no counter weights.
Do your horrible old windows have any screens?
I don't know about constant maintenance...I painted them 8 years ago and then properly refinished them all this year. Some of them had broken old cotton ropes so now they all have new poly ropes tied to their counter weights. None had rotten sashes just lots of paint and caulking preventing the top sash from moving. All now freely move with ease. I also replaced some of the missing metal side gliding gaskets tightening up the sashes. With R80 attic insulation and R25 floor insulation, beneath the whole house, the interior is warm in the winter with my electric heated tiled floor slabs emitting silent and gentle heat. In the summer the insulated thermal mass of the house holds onto the night time coolness all day even when it is 95 outside!
@@aaronvallejo8220 Any window that needs to be painted is significantly more maintenance than a modern window. These stupid old windows with the tiny little panes are even a bigger pain in the ass - requires an enormous amount of tape or an enormous amount of skill to correctly paint them. Usually people just end up painting half the glass and then painting the window shut.
And as for refurbishing the windows, something Brett never mentioned is that any 100 year old window is most likely CAKED with lead paint.
For those who advocate modern windows over old windows: look, as an owner of a 200 year old house I agree good modern windows are more efficient and work better than old windows. But there is an aspect about owning an old, historic house that isn't factored in here. There is something to be said about retaining the original features of a historic house - the floors, woodwork, chimney, mantles, shutters, windows etc. Once these are gone, they are forever gone. It about retaining history for future generations of owners, a belief that we should be stewards of antique properties. (I get that people had over time updated their houses - old multi-pane Federal period windows were often updated during the Victorian period to 2 over 2 or 2 over 1 windows. I'm not talking about those "modernizations").
I've seen this situation and the owner ends up buying very expensive new windows (only the more costly ones look good at all). However the cost would probably be the same in this case. We need people knowledgeable in working on the original windows. Otherwise the contractor will not touch them, and the only option would be searching out a renovation specialist. If more local people knew how to do this, it might become less costly.
The voids with the sashes leak so much air. Weather stripping fails.
Spring Bronze Weather stripping can last for 100+ years. We have some in our house that is 136 years old and still works great.
@@indyregen Very rare and unlikely. Modern windows are still double hung and don't need the stupid weights.
@@indyregen I got it too, but metal is a good conductor and if you did a thermal test I'm sure it would show, as well as the metal frames on storm windows, they conduct heat. The bronze is very attractive and serves as effective windblocks and bug and vermin protection
I need like twenty single glazed wood windows. Can anyone help? I'm in LA
lead paint
I love my double hung windows :)
Yep - the kind they never stopped making. Not sure why people in the comments or Brett think this is something to brag about. Even the cheapest vinyl windows come in a double hung variety.
@@ryanroberts1104 I think we just like historic double hung windows. There isn't anything wrong with having personal preferences or sharing what you think is valuable with other people, that isn't bragging it's passion.
@@TylerDickey1 In the video Brett makes it sound like they don't make double hung windows anymore, and some commenters seem to think that.There are a lot of misleading things in this video.
If you like them that's great, I do too, but nothing inherently historic about it.
@@ryanroberts1104 I think your comprehension skills are a little off.
@@TylerDickey1 No, my comprehension is just fine. You have obviously missed the point entirely.
For once I'm going to have to disagree with build show network. Sure if you have old windows that are air tight, keep them as long as you can. Modern windows are better in so many ways.
Modern windows are plastic and the insulation will always fail. There's a reason you replace them every 30 years if not sooner, and far sooner at that. Meanwhile traditional wood windows are often still rocking at over 100 years old. They also look way better than the plastic/metal types.
Reasons I wouldn't want an old window - 1 - leaky - feel the cold when near it. 2 A lot of work to put in the storm window. 3. the counterbalance often gets stuck. 4. Wood rot 5. New windows have many options - built in screens that auto retract so you don't have to take them down in the winter, Triple pane, film to protect in a hurricane, film to block solar heating, chromatic - electronic glazing to give privacy at the touch of a button. Don't get me wrong, wood looks nice but it isn't the ultimate be all end all.
One solid reason to keep the windows - great fire fuel.
Help who can redo the 55 year old wood windows with an arch
Dude it's called argon gas ... read it
Reason #1 they’re made out of lead paint
What on earth? no. just. no.
This will likely get censored for sensible use of math and science. Somebody save a copy. 🤣😂🤣
Single pane is stupid no matter how you look at it. Those are going to have condensation on the outside all summer and on the inside all winter. It's not just about energy efficiency. Also the few days we have where I don't need heating or cooling my house averages about 6kwh per day - if it's hot or cold I use about 15-28kwh per day. I monitor the bill very closely. Heating and cooling is way more than half of it. I don't have a very large house. It's hardly worth upgrading if your windows work just fine, but if they're old and falling apart like most 100 year old windows then it's not just about energy.
Even if you had them restored to brand new condition, they are far inferior to modern windows, which can be purchased made from nice quality wood. You will constantly have to paint these things, think about what a pain in the ass that is! And you will have to constantly reapply the glazing putty.
Plus you can still get quality wood double and triple glazed windows! I have a rental house with some really nice wooden dual pane double hung windows from the mid 80s and they're still in great condition. Vinyl and aluminum don't warp or rot either. The idea that today's wood is all garbage is all bullshit. Yes, they do make some low quality cheap windows. You can also buy better quality windows with wood just as good or better than the old shit.
I love to see original windows in really nice historic places...otherwise dump 'em. They make great shooting targets.
matt risinger please fire this guy. everyone knows new windows are sooo much better than high maintenace wood windows. this video is a joke.
Unless you paint with Linseed oil paint, your finish is petroleum based plastic paint with a 7 to 10 year lifespan not 100 years. The wood quality is almost irrelevant with linseed oil paint. 100 and 200 year old windows are still around because for the majority of their life they were protected with breathable linseed oil paint. Wood window rot is mostly due to petroleum based paints which are not breathable, not the wood quality. Old wooden windows were typically made from soft, inexpensive woods that best absorb linseed oil. Decay resistance is of much less importance with linseed oil paint as the paint breathes and does not promote wood rot, regardless of it's decay resistance. The tight wood rings were mainly important to have a stable wood that assists in keeping the frames straight. Old tight grain wood frames will twist though when painted with petroleum based paint as it keeps in the moisture. A large part of your presentation of wooden windows and restoring wooden windows is wrong as you do not use linseed oil paint. You can use any breathable plant based paint, it's just that linseed oil paint has always been the least expensive with very good characteristics. You should also use linseed oil glazing putty. Linseed oil interior paint or linseed oil wax is best for the interiors of wood windows as it's again breathable and handles interior glass condensation. WOOD DECAY is not due to BAD WOOD it's due to BAD PAINT! Linseed oil paint pigments are also natural mineral based with useable pigment through the entire paint thickness. Linseed oil paint also needs no primer. 2 or 3 coats of linseed oil paint can last 30 years with minimal maintenance, never peels, is all natural and has no VOC's. If you need any other details about using linseed oil paint, feel free to contact me.
This is just awful. No, old windows with that awful glazing putty, storm windows have rotted so many sills where they caulk the bottoms and theres these two pin hole drain holes what a joke. Those old storms are a struggle to operate.
Or interior storm windows?
@@timothydillon6421 Still going to be leaky and need putty replaced all the time.
@@ryanroberts1104 lol, glazing putty usually lasts at least 50 years if done correctly. So if 50 years is "all the time"...
@@indyregen No, glazing putty does not last 50 years, LOL! There is a reason they don't use it anymore...and it's not because window manufacturers want your windows to last more than 50 years. And I forgot to mention - you'll be painting those fucking things ALL THE TIME! What a pain in the ass! Modern windows don't even require paint...even if they did it would be simple and easy. All those panes...huge pain in the ass!