The eight fights of Monster Hunter
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- There are frequent arguments over who's a good or bad fight - but really not all fights should be judged by the same criteria when they have different roles in their maps and rosters. So join me in an attempt to categorise the 8 main fights of the Monster Hunter series.
Patreon : / unnaturalhistorychannel
There's actually only 2 kinds of fights in MonHun: fights that I can beat, which are well designed; and fights that I can't beat, which are awful and the worst thing ever
Y’know, i dont like saying because its rude but, you genuinely have a skill issue.
Underrated comment right here🤣
I’ve not beat Alatreon, I feel like he’s over designed, I feel like the worst monsters are still beatable, leviasoth feels like there’s something wrong with his design
Narcacuga in world has many shit zones
Hate alatreon so much. Can't beat him, nit even the weaker of the two quests. There is just so much overdone bullshit, also seems that every attack save for the weak ass claw swipe one shots me.
@@will6671 he punishes rocksteady mantle too much, and has a rajang style one hit where he explodes after flying, his side swiping fire breath has inconsistent one shooting
The 8 Styles of Monster Hunter:
1. Missing every charged attack
2. Decapitation of teammates ankles
3. Speedrunning the Monster
4. Speedrunning yourself
5. Watching others fight
6. Buffing teammates without doing damage because you have zero clue on how to fight this Monster
7. Purposely screwing up teammates because you thrive on the salt.
8. Not gitting gud
"Diablos is the AK-47 of the roster" I love the lines you come up with
The Playstation Dualshock controller of monsters
The... alligator body plan of monsters--
21:09
The only time UHC will *ever* throw Magnamalo a bone.
Rip great girros forgotten as the first monster to have combo moves with its pack
Edit: I meant in mainline, so excluding Frontier with hardcore cephadrome and guanzorumu
Deserved tbh
No one likes him lol. He's especially bad in Now lol
I was gonna say Great Girros is the most forgettable World monster but then I realized I genuinely forgot about Tzi Tzi. It's pretty close though sadly
Technically Hardcore Cephadrome was the first one in Frontier's G3 update from 2013. Predating even Guanzeromu in the G10 update from 2016. Which also predates Great Giros from World in 2018.
@@beedrillbot121 lmao I forgot about them just like how great girros gets forgotten
Feels inconceivable that you, of all MH channels, specialized in ecology as you are, were able to best sum up the fight design philosophies while still imprinting some interesting ecological details.
A while back I said that I really wanted a fight with a proper pack - IE, not one powerful monster with a bunch of lesser underlings, but a coordinated group of monsters all on about the same level.
That footage of the "mob boss" fight from Wilds looks a hell of a lot like I'm getting my wish. Here's to hoping a finger hasn't gone down on the monkey's paw.
So nervous about wilds
Yeah a proper pack fight would be pretty cool, hope capcom manages to pull it off well
@@giran4914 why? it looks brilliant
@@mydrillasanjay5397 the monster designs we’ve seen feel more like generic slop than usual, tho the railgun dragon gives me hope
@@giran4914The only monster design we've seen from Wilds so far that I'd consider generic is doshaguma, but even doshaguma has great details in its design to further its ecology.
your commentary on puzzlebox monsters reminded me of they saying that the weakest part of the lock is the lock, where the lock is defeated simply by breaking it with force instead of picking with finesse.
Haven't heard that one before, but I like it!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel It's basically McNally's videos. Or in SWAT videos or Military, a shotgun with breeching load/ammo is used for same effect.
as a gs,gl,cb user, i too usually just hit the lock with multiple nukes until the only thing NOT broken is the keyhole.
@@unnaturalhistorychannelcan you please do a video series on underutilized speculative evolution ideas?
HAHA as an amateur locksmith you’re absolutely right, in most cases finesse is the last of a moderate list of things to try to get a lock open. Most would just save time, drill it out, and sell the person a new lock.
Also hey, why break the lock when you can break the window way easier? Think about that
To be fair to the "puzzle box" archetype going extinct: some puzzles, like Barroth's mud armor being weak to Water when Barroth itself is _not,_ derive from the intrinsic difference between solo and multiplayer designs -- if two players hunt a Barroth, one can bring a Water weapon (for the mud) and another Fire (for the damage) and trade off according to how the battle progresses, but a solo player (especially a Blademaster) is forcibly locked into a single element for the entire fight (5th gen aside) and therefore has _zero_ ability to engage this "puzzle box" as intended, pretty much at all. A similar argument occurs with Alatreon (both in and prior to World).
Oddly, I am also reminded of a very specific boss from indie game _Cuphead,_ where this boss initially presents you with 3 weak points: Each target you destroy disables one of the boss's attacks, but doing so prompts the boss to reveal/resort to new attacks so it never actually makes the fight "easier", just "different".
In MH's case, I would enjoy seeing monsters with something like this: we know that slicing off a Rathian's tail nerfs the range on it, but seasoned hunters know very well how to exploit the large opening left behind whenever she does that flippy thing of hers (to such degree we actively watch/wait for it). So a Rathian without her tail should essentially forego using that attack at all (perhaps after one or two "misfires" to demonstrate the loss) and prioritize her remaining attacks instead.
It may also be something I enjoyed about World Lunastra: her biggest elemental weakness is Ice, sure, but if you bring Water element you gain the ability to actively extinguish the embers she's scattering about the area (before they become a problem), or if you bring Dragon element you can exploit Dragonseal to your advantage. None of which completely breaks the difficulty of her fight.
World actually solved the problem entirely with the slinger.
The areas where Barroth roams in the Wildspire Waste are littered with Puddle Pods, which deal water elemental damage when fired. If you bring a fire weapon, you can simply pick up puddle pods and use them to clear his armor before going in for your bonus fire damage. They're honestly even more efficient that bringing a water element weapon just to clear the mud, as they one-shot the mud armor on any body part they hit.
Lavasioth had the same treatment - Fire Pods will soften his lava armor and allow you to deal full damage with your raw or water element weapons.
The main problem with both monsters is that their difficulty got nerfed to the point that people were rarely asking for help on them, and so the use of the slinger as your own bag of tricks never really got widespread.
MHWilds now has a fix for that given that the Seikret has a pouch for a second weapon
@@TsulaAngenati2292 It will be interesting to see if they reprise the idea with Wilds allowing the hunter to bring two different weapons (often with different elements).
It would be MORE interesting if the idea involves more than just the numbers game with how much damage your weapon does. For example, we know that by default, elemental power is just a damage buff to select monsters, but what if -- for example -- it functioned not as a damage buff but as an equivalent _sharpness_ buff, meaning a favorable element could allow a weapon to strike certain parts that a neutral/non element weapon at the same sharpness would bounce?
@@Stratelier That would be fantastic
@@Stratelier Elements getting a bigger gameplay component than just a number would be fantastic. Sharpness is a great idea, but they could be so much more.
I made a little category for monsters that reward the player for playing aggressive. Like gore magalas frenzy state if you hit his head enough you'll be rewarded with a knock down. Or velkhana if break enough of her ice parts she'll be knocked down, even magnamalo and Malzeno have that gimmick, if you hit their glowing parts they'll be knocked down. Started noticing that recent flagship monsters follow that trend.
Worth mentioning Gore's frenzy virus doubles down on encouraging aggression, where if you play too passively you're hit with a debuff, but if you go in and take risks to continue getting hits you're rewarded with a buff. Frenzy monsters getting this effect across the board really hammers it home too!
To be more precise, let's call this a "special knockdown", since concentrating attacks on a monster's head (or other weak point) will cause a stagger/knockdown even under ordinary conditions making it difficult to actually spot a difference.
Gore Magala, for example. Even back in MH4U, you can tell when its Frenzy state is about to end because its frenzied glow is less intense and oscillating, and basically the next knockdown that triggers -- regardless of where or how -- results in the special knockdown that returns it to its non-frenzy state.
@@Stratelier that's exactly what I was talking about! I think gore magala actually kinda started the trope since his whole gimmick with thr frenzy virus was to reward you for being aggressive and punish you for being passive.
Though I have been noticing that the flagships have been adopting this same style to a lesser extent. I would hope the wilds flagship does something new. Maybe being a "Bag of tricks" monster.
holy shit someone else remembered velkhana existed???
This also applies to all the afflicted monsters of Sunbreak's endgame.
I always saw Gypceros as having the characterization of a cowardly scrapper using whatever cheap tricks and tactics possible to get an advantage no matter how small that advantage may be. For me it made it more satisfying when I finally took him down and learned how to counter all his cheap tricks.
As a kid I hated gypceros because all the tricks were really obnoxious and it was the first monster to triple cart me in mh4u village, but once I learned how the fight fully worked and especially with the power of hindsight, it's now a silly charming monster, it's not exaclty the most fun thing in the world, but it's like a "this sucks"/affectionate
"you can't just brute force a gravios fight"
*Laughs in 36 gunlance full blasts to the face*
"remember Doodle, Stabios the Gravios"
500 shellings
14:41 I very much agree; the MOMENT I found a third Effluvium Resistance gem, Vaal Hazak was reduced from Elder Dragon to large monster.
21:11 Rare UHC complimenting Magnamalo moment. XD
You can hear the disgust in his voice lol
"And I guess Magnamalo"
Quick, find where they're hiding him! He's obviously being forced to say this against his will! With Lagia and Anja and other similar monsters, I think a 7th group can be made called the "Jack of all Trades" monsters
I hereby classify Dalamadur as a Bag-of-tricks monster due to his 1. Head and tail independent attacking, 2. Meteors, 3. Moving around the map, 4. Shrinking the map with attacks, 5. Paralysis tongue
With Wilds allowing you to bring a second weapon on hunts, perhaps monster design will lean into harder puzzle monsters since solo hunters will now have the ability to bring multiple elements to a hunt
that thought dawned on me not too long ago.
now that we can switch weapons - and assuming Agnaktor or Lavasioth return - players can switch to a weapon that can melt the magma armour, and one that takes advantage of the monster's weakness.
now the question is will having 2 weapons at once be a core feature like the Slinger? hope so, honestly.
This just dawned on me by reading this comment so be proud of thinking this you two.
"You can't just brute force Gravios"
Watatsumi users: "Hold my goldenfish brew and blessed wine stew"
Going to be honest. I never knew hitting Agnaktor with fire would undo the armor when it cooled. I would just bash away at the soft part I wanted broken for the cooling phase. Or use water. To be fair, I was also like 12-14 when I played Tri.
fire weapons only started softening the armour in portable 3rd onwards, so maybe thats why you didnt notice
@@bobdawyers2229 Ah, thanks for that. Yep, that makes sense.
As a lance player, there are 5 types of monsters:
- pushover
- guard 3/+1
- guard 5/+2
- guard 3/+1& guard up
- guard 5/+2 & guard up
I always love how despite the fact I don't really have much of an investment in the games themselves you always manage to make the monster hunter stuff interesting and entertaining. Maybe its just a product of the fact Monster Hunter is at its core a game so of course it has systems and stuff we as actual people interact with but I really enjoying hearing the mix of things like ecology, evolutionary biology, and history that you mix in with the monster deep dives. Plus the talk about mechanics, balance, and other game stuff is always really useful as someone who plays a lot of TTRPGs and likes do home brew creatures for the settings I run. I came here from the Kong Skull Island Video and stayed for the quality of work! Can't wait for the next vid!
I disagree 28:27. Qurupeco's theme is literally being a trickster monster. Both ecology and intro show it tricking jaggis. The mucus it spells reduce defense and greatly increase fire weakness, the monster element, fire attacks go from being a nuissances to an actual threat, the fact that the status debuff is visually discrete even makes it more like a deception. Peco uses their mimicry to summon other monsters, and even buff / HEALS them.
TLDR: Qurupeco is a low entry trickster with being a prankster their main theme.
Never forget the Delvijho summon surprises at high rank.
Idk if I've been playing too long or what, but sometimes the monsters get a look on their face and I know what attack or move they're gonna do next. Like the ✨ Rath Shuttle Run✨ you can see it on their faces.
I would argue that Iceborne Alatreon is an “apex tier” bag of tricks monster. It is probably the most gimmicky monster in the series.
Maybe they shouldn’t count, but Ancient Leshen and Behemoth arguably fit into the category as well.
Leshen is definitely a major bag of tricks due to just being so wildly different that everything it does feels like a trick. It's so out of place beyond just "I'm from another game"
Behemoth's has a few tricks but honestly when fighting it feels more like a Tank. Charybdis is a true trick, protecting the Comets for Meteor later on definitely screws with your head. I'd consider the aggro mechanic more of an anti-trick though.
Hilariously, Rathalos becomes a "bag of tricks" in FF14 because of the "I'm from a different game" gimmick. I fought it with a friend who never played monster hunter before. Imagine the movement difference of a light vs heavy bowgun set to its max. Then laugh as the heavy bowgun black mage dances around Rathalos and the light bowgun bard gets bowled over time and time again.
I'd say behemoth is a puzzle box disguised as a bag of tricks which considering it fights like a mmo raid boss for obvious reasons makes sense
@@krysmphoenix6010 I don't rember any movement mechanics in the rath fight..?? Although doing it as a sage the first time made for quite the surprise when it entered phase two
Awesome video! I really think there hasn't been enough analysis of how the range of monsters play off of one another to shape the gameplay experience, on top of the fantastic ecology and themes integrated within so many aspects!
I think it's easy to overlook the amount of work and thought put into the mainline's roster and how the fights tend to build on each other, not helped by overall decrease in difficulty over time or a good chunk of the playerbase understandably putting more attention on the Ultimate/G expanded releases that tend to bloat the rosters and loss a bit of focus.
As a Capcom head I quickly started seeing MH as taking notes from Mega Man's structure of staging an array of bosses with strengths and weaknesses the player can map out their own progression through, with bottlebecks that double down on features the next tier of monsters will leverage. As I've gone through more of the games and go back to vanilla versions a lot of these elements stand out and contrast eachother more in really neat ways.
While all the games are far from perfect it's always thrilling to see how the devs iterate and redefine the experience and see all the intricate ways they build on the series, so here's hoping Wilds gets to really blow us away!
On my birthday?!? Unnatural, you shouldn't have,!
Happy birthday!! 🎂
Happy Birthday! I hope it's been good!
Happy birthday 🎉
Happy birthday!
I think Barrioth could partially be considered a "Puzzlebox" monster with how his fight starts off with rapid attacks that gradually slow down as you break its parts.
I love bag-of-tricks monster fights because I mainly use SnS, with a carefully curated loadout giving me a funky bag of tricks aswell. So it kind of feels like two idiots throwing everything and the kitchen sink at one another.
I would like to add a category that encapsulates a few different monsters, the endurance test monster. That constantly applies pressure somehow, Rajang and iceborne barrioth fit this description perfectly, as well as a few more like espinas and ruiner nergi. Always doing something, you either keep up or pay with your life.
What I love about Bloodbath Diablos, is that they took a simple, straightforward fight..... and cranked it up to a 1000 😂
As usual I can't help but disagree with the statements about Zamtrios. I think the pivot from 'cool ice armor' to 'goofy balloon mode' enhances the fight by way of a surprise. No one expects the legged shark with cool ice armor to suddenly balloon up and roll around. It feels like a mixture of both the cool and goofy aspects of monster design in one. You could argue it hurts the fight overall, but unlike Gypceros' playing dead, the surprise doesn't completely invalidate the fight as a whole. I will agree at least that Tigerstripe is a better fight on it's own overall, and that the armor mode should get a fight dedicated to it as well.
Overall though, good video that I think hits the major fight categories of the series pretty well overall. Though it is somewhat ironic that the category of Siege fights goes unmentioned when that's the most recognized kind of fight in general, though I get why.
If I were to pick a favorite category, it just might be Speedsters. Maybe it's just because I'm a Dual Blades main, but matching the speed and dodging of a Speedster myself is just really smooth and satisfying. It's why Odogaron in World is some of my fondest memories of it, as well as even Exotic Nargacuga in Frontier, which I think is about as perfect as Nargacuga can get.
I do believe Siege Monsters are a subcategory of the tank monsters. Large health pools and easy to dodge but heavily damaging attacks sound pretty siege-like to me
I feel like lunagaron is the realization of the armor mode as its own fight
For me odo was horrible especially on my second playthrough. In retrospect charge blade/hunting horn and greatsword were probably the worst 2-player team for odogaron as in my first playthrough my friend and I both went HBG but still
There's something poetic about Dodogama being the last monster in the video
He literally doesn't miss
deviljho video was an l
@@newsavefile in what way?
@@Sara3346 he tries to completely avoid the given ecology of deviljho in monster hunter lore and instead of trying to justify it with ingame logic says it wouldnt work in the real world.
You said something good about Magna
Time and Space will now collapse
I see wallgliding as more of a feature and not as a defining role. Most of them are seen as speedsters by the community
Edit: It's like taking every monster whose gameplay feature revolves around eating (such as congalala or great jagras) or are characterized by their voracious appetite (such as deviljho or tigrex) and attributing the "glutton" role to them. Another would be taking monsters known for starting turf wars (like aknosom, magnamalo, or rajang) and giving them an "aggressor" role.
I think the point of that category was less the gliding itself (meaning that they named it poorly) and more the environmental interactions (meaning that despite the lack of gliding Odogaron should've probably been put into this category)
now it could be argued that there's a lot of overlap, maybe even enough that the categories should be merged, but at least for now some of the older speedsters are lacking in environmental interactions. there are also a couple of environmental interaction monsters that might be able to fit into other groups but certainly aren't speedsters (specifically Uragaan (a tank with environmental interactions), Radobaan (a tank with environmental interactions), Gigginox (a bag of tricks with environmental interactions) and Nerscylla (a bag of tricks with environmental interactions)
one could argue that all of these monsters belong in other groups so the environmental interactions doesn't fully warrant a category of its own, I'd personally argue that *all* monsters (even ones only found in special arenas) should have at least some kind of special interaction where it uses its environment to its advantage, but for now the group of monsters that actually interact with their surroundings in a meaningful way is still small enough that I'd say it's valid as its own group. however that group should not be called "gliders".
I would say that monsters that specifically seek out other monsters for fights and turf wars should also be its own category.
For me the fights mostly serve the purpose of pulling things like the monsters echology and enviroments together
I will say that I like how zamtrios' mode shifting gives the fight a shifting pace, by delineating the mvoeset into distinct modes/phases it adds variety to the fight whilst reducing how much you have to keep in mind at any given moment. (and also has the humour and surprise factor too)
Oh yes, the fight against Raging Brachydios with your Palicos, loveable. And NOT having any Brachydios Armor yet.
Love these comments: Having Problem against these Monster? Try it again with his armor or even a higher lategame armor -.-
Like...how? Also playing as a 4 Party is incredible easier then hunting solo.
Also in terms of categories I'd add boss fights and "sieges" or whatever you'd call the various tower defense fights. They would of course have alot of overlap with these ones like Ahtal-Ka being a bag of tricks or Allmother being an element monster. And I guess something like Fatalis would be mostly a bossfight with not much focus in other areas (maybe Iceborne version is more element focused with maybe some tank for all gens).
sad that you didn't mention my favorite monster type, the siege monster, but solid video over all
Duramboros is my favorite, I was so scared and excited when it first helicoptered me in 3U all those years ago hahaha
As an experienced hunter it is a very easy fight and could use some more variety or aggression but it was still quite the spectacle as a new hunter
I want the helicopter boi to come back! Or maybe not, living in my memory it is perfect and would maybe be disappointing if it came back. I love the design of its armor and hammer though
There are two kinds of fights. A monster, and a Plesioth.
People bemoaning the loss of stuff like Gravios' armor bouncing all your attacks until it broke forgot how fucking dogshit that mechanic was. Some things go away for a reason.
Such a well-made and interesting video!
Saying "sunrise" instead of sunbreak and mispronouncing every name is making me explode
Glad you mentioned how much easier combat became from MHW onwards. I know they said they’ll make Wilds more difficult, but I can’t help but be a bit worried considering the player base the previous two games cultivated.
Excellent video as always man. I do feel that there is one more category of fight which should be mentioned. That being spectacle fights. These are usually huge monsters like zorah, dalamadur, the sand whales and Nakarkos. They are usually exclusive to one game since they need special arenas and often exist outside of the typical monster hunter gameplay loop. There are some exceptions of course (kulve, xeno, and safi resemble traditional fights and are only different due to their size ). These fights usually exist to be a cool moment in the story, giving the player a sense of awe as they get to fight a truly enormous monster. Their difficulty is all over the place as it’s often a secondary focus. Zorah is an excellent example of this. His difficulty is laughable if you even remotely know what you’re doing and this makes replays of his fight boring. He like most monsters in this category exists to be a fought only a handful of times. All that being said I can see why you don’t mention them, since they don’t usually resemble many other fights and as such all they have in common is the fact that they don’t fall into the traditional categories.
Barroth didn't get neutered in World because "they ruined his mud gimmick", Barroth just got the speed and damage cranked way the hell down. It's an absolute textbook example of a "Tank" type monster, frankly I see it as Tri's take on a sort of alt Diablos. Did you not know you can knock the mud off with just raw damage and you didn't need Water element?
His mud gimmick is still half what it used to be.
Watermoss also just deletes the armor in like 2 shots
This kind of shit is why I fell in love with Malzeno the instant I fought him, and then fell for Primodial Malzeno all over again when he came out. The style, the pizzazz, the fact that this monster is intelligent enough to spook you and trick you while also not being a gimmick fight, the fact that he will teleport around for a few seconds just to get close to you and *roar* in your face to scare your pants off. And then the *ROYAL* badassery that Primordial gives off in his opening cutscene, combined with the fact that he's secretly one of the ones trying to stop the Qurio same as the player, just so fuckin regal and cool. And then finally, after the story and his pseudo-fight where he's not going at you with full strength cuz he's not trying to kill you, when you do fight him one-on-one he's a three-phase *MONSTROSITY* that requires sheer focus and will to beat. Then when you fight him again in the hazard quest he's a walking nuclear bomb of a creature. Ready to wipe you off the face of the Earth in a blink of his eye.
SO fuckin cool
To the point you make at the end, of players sort of "missing the point" of monsters as far as their role in the general pacing of the game goes, I do think the 4th & 5th gen games do kinda make this worse with the now standard "end game powered-up-state grinds", like tempered and afflicted. At that point every monster does just become fighting it over and over again and it's placement in the game overall kinda goes away, and the monsters do have to stand on their own two feet and don't always do a great job of it.
Also an aspect of the puzzle-box monsters that I've never liked is the fact that there's never really much of a figuring-out process for them. Even as early as Dos you get free poison knives in the box for Kushala, and Sonic Bombs for Cephadrome in MH1. Granted if they didn't then the process of figuring them out would be pretty awful, especially since 1st&2nd gen crafting requirements for armor and weapons were so steep a lot of the time. High commitment doesn't encourage experimentation from the player, hence why a lot of dedicated puzzle games let you try different solutions freely and easily. For Monster Hunter though it's always felt like instead of making better puzzles they just give up and hand you the answer.
I feel like the best way to handle puzzle monsters would be to lean into the ecology. Let's take the example of how Kushala works. It has the wind effect which makes the fight harder but can be neutered with poison. Rather than just giving you poison knives or requiring you to look it up online/trial and error, have this hypothetical poison susceptible monster be attacked by a poisonous predator both out in the world and in a cutscene at some point to show you that this is a thing. Or perhaps have it attack a prey animal that uses poison to drive it off.
This shows the player the weakness organically and reinforces the ecology, but that's not all. Because the poison is an established factor in the ecology, that means that you can use it during a hunt. Drawing the monster into the area where the poison using counterpart exists, or by harvesting something like slinger ammo, or steeping the weapon in poison from a slain monster for an element boost. Tie the ecology into the fights and options available and it serves double duty as tutorial and toolbox.
@@ASpaceOstrich That's basically what they did with Odogaron and Paralysis. He doesn't have a turf war or cutscene with the Girros, but they're pretty likely to run into each other at some point in a hunt.
@@Huntereeno Exactly. And Odo is also the only one I actually know about off the top of my head as a casual player. For that exact reason.
I feel like locking the puzzle behind a specific element or item also kinda runs the risk that it’s more inconvenient than fun to do. Barroths mud armour didn’t really click in my brain as a puzzle to find a solution for. I just kinda assumed that you break it off the same way you break monster parts, so being able to actually continue without that mistake stonewalling progress in the early game sounds much better than being stuck not understanding why the first monster of area 2 is so much harder.
I do remember a couple of points in iceborne where the handler yells some advice on the specific story fight you’re having. Seen as wilds looks like you’ll have a handler again it’s probably the best way to communicate why they come with you into the field, a base of research knowledge, familiarity and good intuition to observe weaknesses.
In terms of actual puzzles though I wonder if there’s a way to do something more environmental over elements. Maybe that’s how the whole separate the alpha-from-the-pack will feel
Thats why i hate monsters like nimbelsnarf so much in GU, they give you sonic bombs but you never know thats hes only vulnerable to them in 1 specific move, they give you barrel bombs and expect you to know that he will swallow them so you can FISH HIM UP FROM THE SAND, Hoe does anybody learn this?
I think Chameleos is definitely a solid example of a high-tier "Bag of Tricks" monster.
Poison, invisibility, and item stealing all fit his personality and design very well, but otherwise are very separate and distinct abilities. And the latter two are definitely meant to catch new players off-guard
(You could also argue Alatreon is THE example of a high level bag of tricks, but I think it's more accurate to describe him more as a stance switching monster like Tetranadon or Teostra)
I think it's quite interesting to note how the least ecologically-sound Monsters are often some of the better fights around. Things like Magnamalo, Malzeno, Goss Harag, etc., tend to be much more beloved to the average Hunter based on vocal minority opinions.
I would disagree with the first point. I think there are several overly flashy monsters I'd consider mediocre fights, and out of that lineup I don't think Goss isn't hugely grounded.
And many such monsters are beloved due to their designs over their fights. Many just don't want to admit that for some reason.
Dodogama is beloved, but its fight is more than mediocre. People rave about Rise's Zinogre, even though its hitboxes are dogshit ( though at least not as bad as Narga's). Design and theme, if they have one, plays a huge part in community appreciation. The fight has to be incredibly bad to undo all that.
Both Malzeno and Magnamalo have a hefty amount of style and great themes going for them, not just their fights. They're a whole package, that's what makes them so good (ᵃⁿᵈ ᵏʰᵉᶻᵘ ˢᵒ ˢʰᶦᵗ)
Correction Teostra and Lunastra do get hampered by poison like Kushala does.
Basarios and Gravios are monsters that get some freebies to break their chest only at the lava areas though by using the explosive rocks in certain areas.
Hard to use though but can help in a pinch when you get it to work by letting them run over it or just bring mega barrel bombs to easily break the chest.
Ooh new video
I'd love to hear your theories on wilds before you know too much to make guesses. I know your videos are great in research and educated guesses. But a video like that is time limited. And can age well in showing how theories can change over time.
I subbed to your channel because you discuss the things no one else was discussing.
"How does this monster's design make sense in a real world" and
"How does real world ecology inform our understanding of fictional ecology"
I could find dozens of people on YT alone who will discuss weapon match up, pacing, gimmics, 'who's best at', sure win strats, ect. but you look at the things that matter, the things that make monster hunter different to other 'fantasy slayer' genre games.
Thank you.
Id love to see you try to explain Shen Gaoren.
I'm surprised Mizu wasn't mentioned for the element style of fighting. They have their element style of attacks while plenty of their own physical attacks.
*busts down door* SORRY IM LATE! IM HERE NOW 🏃🏻♀️
"his normal Jagras are essentially useless in combat" tell that to the Leshen fight. Hardest mob boss ever.
24:56 Isn't that literally fishing?
Baiting a fish to bite the hook and reeling them in as they fight against you...
I speak as a fisherman, fishing is not fun in a game.
Absolutely blown away that Rajang wasn’t mentioned at all in this considering it’s probably one of THE best overall designed fights and holds up just as well if not better than diablos.
my kind of fight is something like Anjanath: a blend of a few things that he does well. not necessarily an expert in any of them, but he does them well enough - a jack-of-all-trades, basically, and a fairly powerful one, at that.
the kind of monster to have this type of role is either an Elder Dragon or a Leviathan. i don't care if it can fly or swim, make it challenging and give it fire breath.
i'm essentially asking for "Anjanath if he was an ED/Leviathan", especially the fire breath.
Although i don't 100% agree with the classifications suggested in this video, i gotta say that i just love when people are trying to lay the groundwork for analysation of the series.
And i quite like this theorie. Its a fun way to approach roasters in the games and see were your favorites fall into
I wanna shout out phase 1 Kulve Taroth for being a wild play on the catch monster, despite bring gigantic. Needing to use terrain to stop her or get good attacks in makes for a really interesting dynamic or a fun diversion and warm up. Which then makes the phase 2 section a wild shift from initially feeling "ha, now youre trapped with me" to getting slammed in the face of "oh no, im trapped with her" its so good
I guess it goes without saying, but Siege Monsters are their own category too, with ones like Kulve Taroth offering examples that are a mix between siege and tank.
28:45 Anjanath is also memorable for just straight up being a T-Rex design wise
I feel that this video will probably split as many hairs as the monster design videos (at least for those outside your audience)
i think rakna kadaki is also a good example of a puzzle box monster that also accomodates the players new toolset by utilizing its own eccology to essentialy match the wirebugs
Still gotta love brute wyverns story and ecology wise. They are a good test to how the body design of actual real world creatures stand in a world filled with fantastical and anime styled creatures and the unique monsters they manage to make with the body design like Brochydios and Glavenous (I’ve likely spelled those wrong) while still fitting into and still feeling not to fantastical in the world is neat to me
17:00 ok but what abut Blood Bath Diablos ?
Really great video, nice seeing a look more at the gameplay portion of the series, but still incorporating how ecology and design ties into the individual fights. I think one other potential category that suits some of the monsters shown in the video, as well as one type of fight completely omitted, are Walls. Walls, or Damage-sponges more accurately, are monsters designed to take hits with very slow but still hard hitting and punishing attacks. On the smaller end of the spectrum are some of the largest non-elders which include Duramboros, Gammoth, and Gravios, which notably have hard to access weak points you need to work towards (breaking parts on Gammoth/Gravios, tripping Duramboros during its spin), and on the larger end of the spectrum are siege fights and certain end-game bosses, such as Ahtal-Nesto, Fatalis, and Dalamadur.
Still looking forward to whatever comes nest.
Mob monsters have a representative sitting all the way up in the highest echelons of power, that being Guanzorumu and his army of Egyurasu from Frontier.
i love analysing how animals fight, seeing gorillas use proper wrestling techniques, like one i saw do a snapdown. funnily enough the 1936 king kong has just about my favourite fight scene in a movie, we see holmes do a single leg takedown. bears can also be seen wrestling, however their fights arent always as clean or technical and certainly dont last long normally, but when we see the longer fights you can tell whenever decent enough wrestling is used, at least coincidentally as i think gorillas are more concious about their wrestling techniques
Dude sounds exactly like the Haunted Mansion butler. Great video though!
I wouldn't call it a category as such, but I feel like there's is a small group of monsters I like to call "clumsy." The main entries here are Gypceros. Yian Kutku, Kulu-Ya-Ku and Chameleos. They are monsters that somewhat regularly trip over their own feet and have _some_ erratic behaviour. They are often on the goofier side too. They rarely ever are difficult and you can easily cause and exploit large windows through their clumsiness and erratic behaviour. That's why I still. yes, like Gypceros. It's has an old and tired gimmick, but it all fits into a complete whole for me. Even if its parts have been brought to better points in other monsters.
Two categories you missed are the "sensei" and "wall" monsters.
The iconic monster for the sensei category is kut-ku sensei from the original monster hunter. He taught you many extremely vital aspects of the game in how to use items like sonic bombs, ears being indicators for breakable parts, how to track flying monsters and how flying wyverns movesets affect the way you fight them. The only other monster that people think of as iconic in the sensei category is great maccao in the way his fight is designed in line with his ecology while teaching you how the dance of monster hunter functions later on with more difficult fights.
The wall category doesn't really have a monster uniquely tied to it like other categories,but a iconic wall of 5th gen monster hunter specifically would be anjanath. He shows you just how aggressive and persistent later monsters get while simultaneously showing you openings which you can exploit when doing enough damage during certain phases of the fight. This type of monster in later gens however became muddled as the second minor purpose for their existence diminished significantly when making the series more accessible. That purpose is to literally wall off players from the series through difficulty spikes due to how differently players play the games they buy. If your playing the game as a time waster, hack n' slash and or aren't willing to engage with the mechanics in a meaningful way, then these walls basically give you the boot and have you question whether your doing something wrong or have you quit the game entirely. Those people either never have anything to do with the series again or after seeing a video, post, comment, different game or word of mouth try picking up the series again to love it dearly to this day reguardless of which generation you personally hail as the best. This type of catagory can best be sumed up in this 43 min video as well if you want a more in depth look at said category.
m.czcams.com/video/E3FqBhPYVxA/video.html
It seems that wilds will try to make pack based fights it’s main gimmick for monsters and I suspect that half of the new monster roster and some older monsters may get retooled into “pack fights”
Lao shan long type : taking a stroll
I think one thing youre missing is that the games didn't get easier. Especially in world, those puzzle monsters remain. They just changed. Like barroth requiring watermoss to wash of it's mud. I think including rise in this conversation is a mistake
My first diablos was quite the experience. He was a big roadblock for me and when i got to other such roadblocks like kushala i was so frustrated by the gimmicks much more than diablos cause diablos is just a good fight plain and simple. There are other tough monster that are fair (like deviljho) but none were as outstanding as diablos.
Elderfrost is an absolute menace tank monster
I dunno man that quest for the Great Whetfish Duel Blades kicked my ass
I like most of these classes a lot, and i think they work well to categorize the monsters in an interesting way.
But I don't think the gliders deserve their own category, imo they're just speedsters, perhaps with a bit more flavour and a leaning into the "catch me" archetype.
Instead, i think an allrounder class should be acknowledged, like anjanath or zinogre, which imo deliver some of the gratest fights.
Okay buddy, 5th gen is easy, but I've gone back to play 3u and 4u, and outside of 4u gravios, 4u high-rank rathian, seregios, monoblos, and ceadeus cuz of time limit, I did everything first try
yo! you should make videos on wingdrakes and lynians, just suggestions.
Wait wait wait third gen's pack monsters are cool what
Great Jaggi calls in lesser Jaggi like Blangonga does with Blango, and will call upon them to dance around and create chaos (at least in Tri, been a long while since I've fought him in 3U or 4U), which is especially chaotic in Tri where more small monsters can be in an area at once
Baggi only use their sleep spit when the Great's around, throwing you for a loop if you're unprepared
Great Wroggi doesn't actually have any pack mechanics to my knowledge except that iIrc it can also call in Wroggi but his fight does have a really cool design with the contrast of its slow-moving, slowly dissipating poison mist contrasting with the poison spit of the Wroggi to make you think carefully about your approach
Qurupeco doesn't really have any control over the monsters it calls but in Tri it can call in small monsters in addition to large ones, and even buff them when it buffs itself (which afaIk is also Tri-exclusive)
And then you talked about Gigginox
Then 4U has Seltas Queen and Desert Seltas Queen which granted don't actually have any control over the Seltas and Desert Seltas unless they've already connected to them, but I do think are at least worth mentioning
They probably neutered basarios because it was genuinely impossible to break his chest with how bunched-together the hitboxes are :/
I'd also argue that 5th gen actually made elders like teo and kush more difficult by not tying their puzzle to staggers and ailments. in 2nd gen those guys were essentially a joke because you could simply repeatedly stagger their heads to neuter their auras for the entire fight
i have a suggestion for a future video: what if you tried to make sense of the creatures from medieval bestiaries?
you read their descriptions, and then you try to make sense of their ecology - only the fantastical ones, though (like the Dragon, Monoceros, etc.).
Dodogama was made to be a good boi, and they succeeded.
24:24 "the pissing wyverns" correct pronounciation :)))))
My hands always ends up shaking when I beat a monster in grank.
I think specifically the fated four (mizu, astalos, glavenus, gammoth) are all great fights in terms of enjoyment, and except for gammoth also in challenge.
My personal categories of monsters.
Punching Bags: Starter monsters. Generally the first beasts you face in game, but there are some oddballs that show up as the "starters" of high or master rank as well. Generally slow to attack, with lots of opening to hit them.
Speedy Boi: Small to medium sized monsters that tend to hit fast and die fast. Narga is my classic example. A monster that, while it won't kill you in one hit, will instead rip you apart in a barrage of attacks while being very vulnerable to getting crunched itself if you catch it. Some of the stronger ones have a single nuclear level attack they occasionally throw out that often leaves them vulnerable if they miss it.
Da Mario: Monster that is just decent at everything. Rathalos and Lagi are both examples. Most Elder Dragons are this, but on steroids. If this was a PvP game these boys would probably be the Meta characters. They have no glaring weaknesses and have attacks that cover pretty much every range you try to engage them at.
The Powerhouse: He's big. He takes hits like a champion. He'll knock your lights out with a single well placed strike. What he isn't is slow, instead their attacks tend to a notable flaw (easy to avoid, heavy telegraph, long recovery, etc) to balance out their sheer power. Beast like Grav and Tigs or some of the bigger Elders fit this. Essentially a a freight train in the form of a monster and you're always on the tracks.
The Gimmickmancer: A monsters whose threat comes almost entirely from some odd effect. Be it a status or some oddball trick they use in their fight. Think things like Nerscylla (as a status user) or Almudron (for it's terrain morphing and mud).
The Berserker: The hellish cross of a Speedy Boi and a Powerhouse, but given a key weakness to compensate. These beasts hit hard, hit fast and often even their flinch animations come back with attacks. To make them manageable they usually have a kryptonite factor that if handled properly makes the fight much more survivable. Examples: Deviljho whose hunger means it tires quickly and will eat tainted food mid fight. Rajang, whose tail is a crippling weak point that can knock it out of it's power up. Usually a near end game fight, but occasionally shows up as a mid game challenge such as Anjanath (whose flame breath can be made to back fire by smacking it in the throat). These guys tend to be the nastiest things in the game outside the last catagory I have.
The Spectacle: A boss whose only purpose is "wow" factor. These tend to be easy battles, but done right can be very impressive. Generally become boring extremely quickly if you have to grind them because they are very scripted. Dalamadur, Jhen Mohran, Ceadeus, and Lao-Shan Lung are examples.
The Destroyer of Worlds: The big boys. The end game. The monsters whose equipment tends to describe them with edgy poetry. Fatalis. Amatsu. Primordial Malzeno. Dire Miralis. Gogmazios. Safi'jiiva. Just to name a few. Usually both the toughest and most amazing fights in their game. Anything that is a variant of a Berserker, but with it's weakness disabled (or even just lessened) counts as this too (Savage Jho, Furious Rajang, etc.)
9:00 Nercylla is really weak to flash bombs , you can get her from almost any angle so the flash may be a defense mechanism for that
When speaking about pack monsters, I feel you ignored the jaggis entering a hyped up state when Great Jaggi roars, making it more dangerous to ignore them and harder to keep track of.
I disagree with the puzzlebox monster thing. No one I've talked to likes gravios and basarios, because its just not fun having to chip away at shit like that for ages. As for barroth, using a water weapon would mean losing all your damage the moment that mud comes off. I can understand having a little puzzle to make the fight easier, but when its the entire gimmick, it's just a slotg of a fight that you don't want to repeat once you're done with it
I’d consider Chameleos a high tier bag of tricks fight. Hell, he’s quintessential in the role of you ask me
i think the closest to a puzzlebox in modern mh is Alatreon with the escaton stuff
Yo big man, how about some Elden Ring Ecology???
Is that even possible to make?
@@limaoatmosferico2975 i mean technicaly, just don't do logic, it won't work
@@-.-K._. without attempting to root it in logic, isn't that just a basic lore video?
@@siegwardinspirit technicaly but he could make it work im sure