Instead of replying to everyone individually, for anyone wanting to comment along the lines of; "The Enclave is evil" - You can join the Legion - You can blow up a town with a nuclear bomb or poison the water with FEV and many more incredibly evil things already "You can't join the Enclave because they don't allow mutants or outsides" - Fallout 76, the currently supported game takes place 25 years after the war, the Enclave hasn't even developed a dislike for mutants yet. - Before their destruction, the Enclave in Fallout 76 expanded their numbers by recruiting a military unit from D.C. - Fallout 2's Enclave has an anti-mutant policy set by the leadership, but as you find out by interacting with the citizens of the Enclave there's a wide range of opinions on the matter, this is further reinforced by the remnants in New Vegas. - By Fallout 3 the entire conflict within the Enclave is based around this, Colonel Autumn defies Eden's plans to poison the water. - Outsiders have joined the Enclave in Fallout 3 such as Stiggs and Anna Holt. - In Fallout 3, the army the Enclave uses to take control of D.C. is almost exclusively young men. It's very unlikely this could be achieved with out recruiting outsiders.
Saying the Enclave (as an institution) isn’t more evil than the Legion is like saying the Nazis aren’t more evil than the Romans. The show has confirmed that the Enclave was willing to start war themselves, or at least let most of the country burn in nuclear fire. The Enclave only took over Project Purity not DC, and they didn’t have a large army. Last and most important despite their cool gear and organization skills, the Enclave as an institution has no redeeming traits (Legion at least had honor).
I think a reasonable explanation of why you can't join the enclave in fallout 1,2 and 3 is because new vegas wasn't made at that point, so bethesda wouldn't have thought that being the villain would work in a game, but after they saw the success of new vegas they added a villian faction to fallout 4. Although not as evil as the legion or enclave, because of how complex fallout 4's story is.
Oh, so it *is* a video about a fasch that wants a joinable faction in Fallout, thanks for clarifying that with a pinned comment. I thought it was a based video about how Enclave really should've been destroyed already, but keeps popping up, because Bethesda is creatively bankrupt.
@ys5pj couldn’t join them in Fallout 2 either, so it isn’t just Bethesda pal. The Enclave is objectively the evil and ill redeemable major faction in the Fallout franchise, since the Institute and Legion at least had some redeemable traits.
@ys5pj colonel Autum was still a evil fascist prick who didn’t care at all (publicly or privately) about helping most of the wastelanders. Just because someone is more moderately evil doesn’t mean that someone still isn’t evil.
@@Bob-fh4ht DON'T HAVE ANY? YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIVE THAT, MAGGOT? THE TRUTH IS YOU LOST AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF ARMY-ISSUE EQUIPMENT. THAT SUIT IS GOING TO COME OUT OF YOUR PAY AND YOU WILL REMAIN IN THIS MANS ARMY UNTIL YOU ARE FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY FOR A MARK II POWERED COMBAT ARMOR YOU HAVE LOST! REPORT TO THE ARMORY AND HAVE A NEW SUIT ISSUED TO YOU, THEN REPORT BACK TO ME, PRIVATE! DISMISSED!
@@Mimikkyudayo The truth is you lost an expensive piece of army-issue equipment. That suit is going to come out of your pay, and you will remain in this mans army until you are five hundred and ten years old, which is the number of years it will take for you to pay for a Mark II Powered Combat Armor you have lost!
Caesar’s was done so poorly. It isn’t ever really shown much of, so it inevitably gets such a harsh rap. Heck the main goal isn’t known to what I’d argue is 99%+ if the player base. Caesars is a means to an end. To destroy the NCR and all forms of governance that follow the old world doctrine, so a new one, built by and for the wasteland would rise in its place. Unironically, they have a good point, and Caesar even knows that it isn’t built to last.
@@markjacobs3232pretty sure most of the legion content/backstory was cut due to time constraints from Bethesda's strict launch window for Obsidian. ofc they are evil but they probably would've been much more interesting
@@markjacobs3232 he doesn't have a good point, you really missed the main theme of the entire Fallout franchise if you think this, which is that humans will bring conflict with them where ever they go. Caesar is not a special case, and he certainly gives us absolutely no reason to believe that day-to-day life in the wasteland will be better under his rule than NCR's or House's. you also didn't read anything about Roman history and about how that nation turned out. the guy is basically a college student that read one book about politics and is now posting on 4chan about how smart he is. no idea how anyone thinks he's supposed to be a good choice. he doesn't even realize that even if he achieves his goal he has no guarantee that he will not be killed in a military coup (as has happened many times in Roman history) for simply dictating that all of his soldiers must now give up their former way of life to settle down and farm. even if a minority of soldiers mutiny, it won't matter if most of the loyal ones trade swords for plows
@@CrizzyEyes He does give good points through his actions. Do you know why his territory was the easiest to cut for content due to time constraints? Because as a player it would be BORING. The roads are safe, more than can be said for most of the game. No raiders, bandits, slavers, deathclaws, geckos etc. It is actually almost unique, bar some of the previous 1 and 2 games in limited areas. Also, his point, as I must reiterate, is NOT TO BUILD. His goal is to destroy the NCR as he sees it as the last vestige of the old world, and a toxic growth that failed. He believes it should be snuffed out, and when it is, then finally a new governance built by and for the wastes can take over. And NO NOT HIS. He acknowledges his nation is build entirely around him, and when he dies, it will fold. The goal is not to build the new civilization built for the wastes, but to remove the old cancer that is failed bureaucracy that put the world into this state in the first place, to give that new future a chance. Basically, if you hate the old governance, and want a different future, and are willing to let people get hurt, a lot of people, for that potential future, you side with Caesar. He's evil due to his callousness with the lives of others, but he does have an argument, especially when you learn that the NCR is more a semi-oligarchical monarchy, with feudal lords known as Brahmin Barons, that takes and demands from others regardless with they agree or not. That is why the game is good. It starts where you see NCR as the good guys, Caesars as the bad, and by the end if you pay attention, they each have their own points and goals, and it's ultimately up to you which future you want.
Bethesda: "You can play as the BoS, but you have to kill the entire underground railroad" Also Bethesda: "No you can't play as the scary guys in sexy Power Armor, they're EVIL! They want to oppress you!"
@@femmemachete A vault dweller would be much more likely to be accepted im since they are not a muttie, if the enclave is not genocidal and you help them, why would they not accept you as some kind of special agent like the brotherhood does? A character like Nate would have been even more likely to be accepted also.
Everyone forgets Hawaii. It's a perfect Enclave headquarters. It's a perfect local for a fallout game. A beautiful place with a military bases and city's totally forgotten by pretty much everyone in the wasteland.
Well, in the Fallout fanon there is a Enclave presence in Hawaii, but they are considered peacefull and lightly armed and have near to no connection with the mainland Enclave. But I support the idea, would be a cool game.
I could see Hawaii, or at least a small part of it like Pearl Harbor being a DLC location or a final boss location comparable to the oil rig, but I dont see Bethesda making a whole game out of Hawaii
Bruh the issue is Hawaii would've been absolutely glassed to destroy the naval base, like just completely annihilated. This was a war with China after all
This is why I love the “Enclave Reborn” sub-mod to the “Old World Blues” mod for Hearts of Iron IV. In a nutshell, after the fall of the Rig and Navarro Sergeant Dornan manages to rally the survivors and lead them east to a military base just north of New Reno. While Dornan was content to lead the survivors until they were safe he is adamant that he has no desire to lead the Enclave indefinitely (he’s a sergeant, dammit, he works for a living!) so the Enclave must elect a new President and the choice is down to two candidates with vastly differently ideologies: Franklin Anderson, an Enclave scientist that is a strong believer in that the Enclave *must* cleanse the wasteland (and the world!) of mutants in order to ensure the survival of the human race and that the ends to achieve this goal justifies the means. The other candidate is Douglas Granite, son of Sergeant Granite from Fallout 2 (and *maybe* the Chosen One…), a man that is more open to the idea of compromising with (and maybe even incorporating!) the Wastelanders into the Enclave if it means restoring America to its former glory. Each side is shown to be not entirely good or evil and playing as one side is vastly different from playing the other. :) Sure it’s a just a mod but it does a hell of a better mod fleshing out the Enclave than many of the actual Fallout games does!
Completely agree, not to mention the added realism the mod authors added to this mod, like, after taking over the NCR and choosing Granite, you actually have to deal with the completely overextended system that you have before the legion attacks
@@kermer1017 They just dropped a massive new update redoing the NCR, BoS, and that general area and also adding a bunch of new countries to Montana and Western Canada.
Just let the Enclave die. They went for the gold in California and again in DC. They went bust and faced total obliteration twice. The state of the Enclave in FNV is exactly how they should be: old veterans and their kids trying to put the past behind them and integrate into other communities.
My idea of Fallout 5 in terms of story in which the villain returns to be the enclave and you can join them, in the good ending they would be destroyed and in the bad ending they would win, what differentiates it from the others is that in this one the canon ending is the bad, canon ending is that the enclave wins and becomes an influential power in the wasteland.
Bethesda split the Enclave into three factions in Fo4 The Brotherhood: Power armor wearing zealots trying to destroy mutants The Institute: high technology and living underground and the "only pure humans" The Minutemen: Patriots devoted to restoring old world order and government
I never got the Brotherhood complaint, how many damn Mutants and Feral Ghouls do you have to put down in the game just playing normally. Makes sense to wipe them out the drooling noobs.
Oh, interesting. Smart Move Bethesda I'd like if Enclave bases become akin to haunted houses, there's a funny meme about it Seeing as the wasteland is normality, seeing a perfectly functioning Enclave base would be the real horror story wdythink
@@jamesgoldring1052 I think so, doe I would love if a Enclave Base was turned into a Trap Gauntlet like that one parking lot in Fallout 4. Real sweet reward, a ton of traps and very little wriggle room.
@@Subject_Keter Awesome idea Maybe the Enclave purposefully makes their base spooky to ward off tribals and naredoowells If I were the enclave, i would've traveled to Canada but yeah
@@Subject_Keter the brotherhood is a bland faction that is nothing like the original. They were extremely reclusive, as well as violent amd merciless against those who had tech and weren't willing to hand it over. They didn't have plans for conquest or taking over anything. Destroying mutants isn't even their main point
Personally, I hate the idea of a ' good ' Enclave. I feel like the Enclave works best as a more developed antagonist. Not villain, but antagonist. They should be developed to show their humanity and their good parts as well. The Enclave should embody the phrase, " The Ends Justify The Means ". The games should make it clear that if the Enclave succeeded in wiping out all muties, ghouls, abominations, other humans, etc, then the world would quickly rebuild to rival it's pre-war glory. But the player should ask themselves whether the chance of a better future is worth sacrificing the lives of millions and destroying years of humanity's progress. I feel like the Enclave is the most interesting this way. People who advocate for a reformist Enclave literally just want the NCR with Power Armor. The Enclave should still be human, they are still people, it's just the leader's plans which are considered evil. The Enclave are the true government, they are America, just not like the one we remember.
A "good" Enclave does defeat the point of the faction, I still want them to be a playable faction, just with the stupid removed, and wanting to kill everyone who isn't you is stupid. It's sort a problem that Fallout 4's poorly written Brotherhood was portrayed as more like what the Enclave should be; an authoritarian military that brings swift justice (poorly in the Brotherhood's case) and exterminates the abominations of the wasteland. The Enclave should protect the people of the wasteland because by God they're still American citizens.
Completely agree but I would still like a playable enclave. Similar to caesars legion in new vegas a faction you can side with that are clearly worse than the other ones
I think the player should be given an option to align with them, if not being directly in their faction. The Enclave aren't completely averse to outside help/dealings (IE the Salvatores in Reno in Fallout 2) and if the player proved themselves capable enough I don't see why they wouldn't, *especially* Autumn
To be fair, the Enclave ARE villains. I still wish we could join them, but I don't want some good guy version of the Enclave, because that's not the Enclave
@@istvanbera9893 Yeah, at the end of the game right before the credits, and your decision doesn't really affect anything in the DLC because the BoS just clean the water up again.
Villians never fit into Fallout Narrative, especially now that they grow out of black and white. The only villains are bandits, raiders, and fiends. A faction needs to be controversial. and have a gray area worth discussing. Heck, you can be evil and side with NCR in Fallout NV, you can prioritize NCR farm over the lives of people from Vault 34 and Westside, you can choose to wipe out The King and throw Freeside into chaos, and you can solve missions in an evil way. You can intimidate, threathen others to do what you want. If Enclave is just evil then the player freedom would be greatly diminished.
@@manofbree6739 Then just don't make them a major faction. Nobody wants to join the Enclave as their end game faction but realize that it's some morally grey lesser version of the ACTUAL Enclave.
@@Bizz4r2m0ke but Nate is a soldier born before the bombs dropped. He’s not irradiated and there is a link between the enclave and Vault tec. He should be the exception
Enclave, Galactic Empire (Palpatine did nothing wrong), Imperium of Man, etc, etc. All the best factions are the supposedly "evil" ones, doesn't matter what piece of fiction you're looking at.
I would’ve liked to see an expansion on 3’s half-hearted civil war, choosing to side with the brotherhood, Eden’s enclave or Autumns enclave could’ve been an interesting story, coming to a three way war over the purifier with the lone wanderer choosing whoever would best fulfill his family’s dream
I agree, it would be cool to join the enclave but have them divided internally. You could choose between full evil enclave and all that or you could maybe overthrow the leadership and maybe have some redeeming qualities and not just kill everyone who isn't enclave 🤣 I'm not saying make them all friendly and happy, but less dickish and more open to people joining them and having reason to do so
My only issue would be given how nitpicky people are, what is the % and the straw that would break the Camel back. It would be cool if you came to them kicking so much ass that both of the Enclaves try to recruit you so you dont rekt them. Only way imo they would even bother with a normie.
Autumn's Enclave are pretty much the best option.... Distributing water to the wastelands without taxing everyone and segregating the water to specific people... Like the Brotherhood....
I've always wanted to join the Enclave in the fallout games. Restoring America and taking back territory from random pop up factions seems like it would be a great time. Fighting hordes of different types of enemies with your smaller, better equipped, better trained group of "American soldiers" would be exciting. Also doing occasional hearts and minds type missions to incorporate vault dwellers or other settlements back into the Enclave would have fleshed it out a lot. They don't even need to be "good guys". Just as ambiguous as the other factions.
You do understand that the enclave would, at best, view you as a slave, and at worst, view you as a crime against nature and shoot you on sight? This is like Jews saying they'd like to be Nazis. You are actively trying to join a faction that wants you dead, and it's a question of whether they shoot you now or work you to death in a factory instead.
This actually aged like wine considering the recent fallout show and subsequent retroactive addition of the enclave onto fallout 4 through an update that no one could’ve ever predicted 😂
I would have thought that in Fallout 4, instead of getting the brotherhood, we would have gotten the retreating remnants of Fallout 3's Enclave and the soul survivor could have helped them rebuild in the Commonwealth and maybe even ally with the minutemen or gunners
The “shadow government” description comes from the fact that the enclave has been repeatedly explained to be the organization that was pulling the strings of the pre war government before the war.
But if the president and his cabinet were actually part of the Enclave, then it is not really a shadow-government anymore. That's why the term "shadow government" seems a bit out of place.
@@robbetorfs4093 An organization like the Enclave would never truly answer to the President and would have members who are more or less free to do whatever they want with little to no oversight. In my opinion that still makes it a shadow government as there are parts of the Enclave that have zero scrutiny from anyone.
@@robbetorfs4093 Yeah it is weird. Shadow government pulling the strings? No, it IS the government, sure maybe they’re pulling the strings in other branches and taking complete control, but that’s just corruption, not a shadow government.
I think Bethasda was misusing the term "shadow government" when they really meant "secret society". They're typically depicted in fiction as both but in reality are not necessarily the same thing.
@@robbetorfs4093 I think the reason why it's called a "shadow government" in this case is because the organization itself was not publicly known and therefore was able to build its bunkers in scrutiny while the rest of the world struggled to prepare for the bomb. Just because the organization held high positions in government (that they used as leverage to further their plans) does not mean that it represented the whole structure of the pre-war US govt.
My favourite factions are the Shi and Enclave, and I think a big reason that they don't get much love is their technological advancement. Bethesda refuses to let their world grow and change after 200 years, with perpetual radiation, pipe pistols, scavenging, and shanty towns. Enclave and Shi are a wrench in those gears, relegated to the periphery of the world instead of becoming interactive on a faction level.
You may thank Bethesda for the Shi faction. Obsidian originally wanted to establish as canon that San Francisco was blow up by an atomic bomb. However, Bethesda refused this and told Obsidian ti keep the Shi alive
@@larckpack1692 I would rather the creators of fallout put that pony out to pasture after telling an engaging story that utilized the location and characters, than Bethesda make another post apocalyptic Far Cry-telltale game with San Francisco as the backdrop: specifically because I liked that faction.
Fallout games where meant to be post post apocalyptic games Bethesda made fallout four seem like it took place 15 years after the bombs rather then over 200 years why are they so many gouls why are so many raiders why is they only one city why can the player just build towns why wasn’t sanctuary already full of people due to it being in a safe area
I really think the Enclave Schism should’ve been elaborated on more. You should’ve been able to help Autumn overthrow Eden and work to reform the Enclave. Maybe in a future installment we’ll see a fractured Enclave where we can join the remnants that follow Autumn’s ideas or the ones that follow Eden’s as an optional split side faction.
That also raises an interesting question, for me at least. Who was right? Eden or Autumn. There was no real way for them to go into that more unfortunately but I'd definitely take something exploring that over Point Lookout.
@@twinzzlers Well Autumn was probably more right because he was not going to kill everybody by lacing modified FEV into the purifier. Autumn just wanted the purifier so he could gain influence over the capital wasteland.
@twinzzlers Eden, definitely Eden, even if just from a pragmatic standpoint in the fact that it wanted to actually remake a pre-war America, whilst Autumm was closer to the West Coast's ideology.
The original fallout creator has a youtube channel and he explains what he wanted to do with the enclave and it was so cool. I would check Mr. Cain out !
Could you tell me which Tim Cain video that was in (where he talked about what he'd have liked to see with the Enclave)? I've watched a lot of his stuff (awesome channel), but don't think I've seen that one.
I think the main problem is that Bathesda is creativelybankrupt and feels the need to bring back old staples of the series even when thye make no sense with estabished canon. They rely on old, recognizable concept and factions like the Brotherhood, the Enclave and the supermutenants even when that completely contradicts the lore because the current writers have no good ideas of their own, and even if they did they would be squashed by marketers who want recongizable elements that the fans can feel nostaalgic about. So they are forced to rehash ideas created by the much more talented writers of the first two games forever because any change risks alienating the fanbase and Bethesda, lacking any artistic integrity, will just try to recapture what could be popular with no intention of inroducing any new, creative idea. It's a garbage company which, in my opinion, hasn't made a genuinely good game before or since Morrowind.
Daggerfall deserves some praise for its incredible technical achievements for the period. I've also heard that the reason why Morrowind was so unique is because the designers had to coerce Todd into accepting their designs by priming him with even weirder, more alien designs, so he would settle for their already weird and alien designs.
@@CrizzyEyes Todd was a quest designer in Morrowind, so whatever you heard is wrong. Also Daggerfall was horrible because of the huge randomly generated dungeons, as an RPG is was unplayable. Arena was amazing though.
I've always felt that the reason that the Enclave is portrayed as evil is because of the fact that they're led by a genocidal or megalomaniacal leader. If they had a guy like someone in the Enclave Remnants in New Vegas, they could be seen as a morally grey faction. I've always seen the Enclave as more of a faction that's as good or as evil as the man behind the faction.
the whole point of them is that the pre-war values that defined the United States is what destroyed the world in the first place. They are doomed to fail because they have not learned from the end of the world.
Because genocide is definitely below slavery. Or blowing up a small town for fun. Or killing an entire race of people in a town. The list goes on. But please explain why THIS particular evil is extra bad compared to every other evil in the series that we are allowed to commit. And that's just on the premise that they genocide people when they don't. They accept recruits. Eden wanted to genocide for some fucked up reason. Autumn wanted to just control water distribution. In 2 they didn't genocide either. Granted yea not exactly the most moral group but which faction isn't a little tainted in a way? It's like people forget the whole phrase of this series. War never changes. Why wouldn't we want to experience it from all the factions pov?
Honestly it's probably because the Enclave represents a real life nation and could be seen to be encouraging extremism if they paint them in anything but a negative light. Video game companies also tend to be very left leaning and are the type to range from disliking patriotism to disliking their country itself.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Dude the enclave is literally based from the deepstate, it literally was always meant to be evil, its based of from all the long list of bs that some federal branches were up to, 14 years prior to fallout's 2 release the MK ultra had been publicly admited by the CIA (and had been floating as a conspiracy theory long before), 5 years prior (1993) the CIA had been involved in the case of what publicly was promoted as a red of child exploitation and satanic ocultism (more especifically in the case of the finders, the CIA full on sabotaged and cancelled the FBI's investigation which would latern end in the FBI's and public demand of the CIA at the start of this century), the federal government in our real and in fallout's world is full of bs, the point of how terrible fallout's pre-war world was is that imperialism and ultra-capitalist politics are never to be supported, they end up in the resource wars and well war, war never changes.
@@Snavels Yes, but no, the thing with joining Caesars Legion being that empty, is that while obsidian wanted to add more, their dates with Bethesda and their own greed (mainly the first tho) didn't allow them to complete them, the Legion is one of the things with the most cut content in NV, and we are talking NV that game has quite a lot of cut content
@@KirbyKitten Don't even bring Bethesda into this, they had a date that Obsidian fully acknowledged and agreed to. Bethesda contracted them to have a game between Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Bethesda couldn't have given them more time even if they wanted to. Obsidian has made it very public that Bethesda is not to blame for this, so don't fucking even.
I totally agree, the thing is personally i'd be alright with keeping them as villains but i'd at least want them to have differing agenda's instead of it just being 'poison anyone who isn't us'. An example would be that a new division of the enclave in a new location would simply want to have themselves as a ruling class and the wastelanders doing the dirty work instead of killing them. I just want something that diversifies the faction.
That's pretty much the reason why we want to see them as playable factions. It's not because we support "fascist paramilitaries", it's that it would be a good opportunity to hear how they would present their side. The "villain monologue" is a trope for a reason, it's to present the audience a full introduction to the antagonist. The audience could disagree with their convictions all they want (in fact, that's what antagonists are for), but with the right amount of effort in the writing, we could at least understand why they should be taken seriously. Fallout 2 had this moment with the Enclave at the very end, pretty much depicting a sheltered, bureaucratic, and corrupt society that callously throw away the lives of wastelanders as collateral damage for their clean-up of the continent. Is the Enclave wrong for wanting to purify the wasteland from post-apocalyptic wastes? No, of course not. Should the Enclave give the wasteland a chance despite all the misery and death in it? I'd say no, but it's not a clear answer. Is the Enclave wrong for killing and actively sabotaging surviving communities in the wasteland in order to pursue their goals? Absolutely. So, why do they do what they do? They want to purify the wasteland and rebuild America. Do they have something to justify it? Yes, they want to make the wasteland actually habitable again. And why should we stop them? They'll rebuild America under the graves of people trying to rebuild their own communities in the wasteland. And boom, there's your well-written antagonist. Through these small introductions, these little banters between two sides of an argument, you established both the ruthlessness and intimidation of the Enclave and the bravery of the BoS, NCR, and the Chosen One for standing up to it. We simply don't get that in modern Fallout when it comes to the Enclave, as they're oftentimes presented as unquestionable malevolent forces repeating the same old goal of "muties bad". At that point, they're not a faction to be taken seriously. They're a generic placeholder, a backdrop of an evil, omnipotent force you have to overcome, when in reality, they really are just plain, unapologetic bigots. And that just sucks. Without this metaphorical discussion between the faction and the audience, the Enclave would remain exactly the way they are in Fallout 2. No progression, no nuance, no character.
@@wojak-sensei6424 I mean its a 50/50 on what the community wants (in the case of this comment), some do be suggesting the same you do of the enclave mantaining its inherent evil that it was designed to hold, others seem to actually support the massive genocide part (which is really not getting fallout at all)
@@wojak-sensei6424 I always viewed the Enclave as it was originally presented as the elite class from pre-war US basically continuing to do whatever the fuck they want, which in this case is ridiculous science experiments (intelligent Deathclaws) and mass murder based on the weird assumption that no one in the wasteland is redeemable except Vault dwellers. They're kind of stupid, but that is intentional, because the pre-war US government was kind of stupid, which is why we're in this mess to begin with. They're living almost purely off of resources set aside for them before the war even started, enabling their own stupidity. But those are only the leaders. The rest of the Enclave are there because they're just cowards who want to live in pre-war levels of comfort and safety and are willing to give up pretty much anything for that. If you talk to any Enclave members other than the scientists or the President, they always talk about mundane shit, or the task they're currently doing. They don't really act like a cult, never talking about how much they want to kill mutants or how good it will be when the wasteland is "cleansed" so they can re-settle it. They don't take security that seriously, as evidenced by Dornan and Camp Navarro. They also seem to take their resources for granted, since Dornan tells you to just get a new suit of APA and report for duty. I always interpreted it as a statement of what evils ambitious people are capable of when everyone else is a simpering coward who just wants to be safe.
If the Enclave was the be brought back again, I would hope it's in the form of a group that wants to play the long hual. Each Enclave appearance so far has been trying to take America back by force, I'd love to see an Enclave group do what the NCR has done and actually build up communities and gradually tame the lands. Imagine them like Vault City but larger in scale.
That goes against the Enclave's plans of purging irradiated DNA out of the human genepool. Legion slaves would be safer than Enclave slum citizens unless the Enclave decides to fail their eugenics quest.
See that sounds like something the enclave could do, and a logical one at best, just the only thing they have to worry about is when the ncr and the Bos hears about their survival , as long as the enclave can get enough support from the community’s they built and protected they can form a defensive line that will truly hold
@@HighSentinel Given that the Enclave is the Federal Government, this Enclave would likely demand that the NCR reaffirm the state of California's membership of the US and thus the Enclave, so that would likely be a good source of conflict.
If it were to be brought back, I think it would be similar to the NCR but far more brutal to achieve results but also more efficient. Perhaps this version is a splinter group that left because they thought that the virus was too extreme or where just isolated from the start.
This here lies the problem, and probably the reason we've never been able to join the Enclave... By the time we first encounter the Enclave in every Fallout game, we have succomed to the ways of the wastes... There ought to be a Fallout game where the Enclave inflitrate a Vault and kidnap Vault dwellers to train into soldiers for their cause... And you are one of them. (At some point you can choose to defect from them)
Did you say the Enclave wasn't evil in Fallout 2? The organization that killed literally anyone who isn't part of the Enclave? Fallout 2s entire story is based around the Enclave being evil
Some people are actually bad and don't deserve a redemption arc. Nazis weren't some secretly deep and potentially nuanced org, they were dicks. The narrative value of the Enclave comes from positioning the former US government (the government most of the playerbase live under) as antagonists - painting a very different picture than current and past US propaganda dictates. Trying to shoehorn in some value to them undoes the original value of them being an enemy hiding in plain sight.
@@TheSkullPanda Nazis were formed on idea of their superiority. Enclave was formed on idea of restoration of lost civilization. I'm not saying Enclave as a whole has to get this new chance. We could only see a small group resist aginst this authoriatarian idea, even though they are endangering themselves. It could show us there are still good men in bad enviroment and you can still fight evil even if you are encircled by it.
@@The-Enclave The first game to feature the Enclave demonstrated this better than any sympathetic lens could. In Fallout 2, we meet cooks and engineers, rank and file members who are themselves blind to the evils of the organization (which are fundamental to it, not some bad apples, but i'll get back to that). When we do encounter someone within the organization who can finally perceive just how awful it is, Dr Charles Curling is literally willing and able to about face and destroy the enclave with you. Even knowingly destroying those low rank and civilian members. This is because, for centuries, even before the FEV dosed everyone on the continent, the Enclave was not an organization that cared about the people there. The framing of wastelanders as "mutants" was a ploy to dehumanize people who were judged in the way of the Enclave. Where the master had sought perfection in mutant survival, at the expense of most of humanity, the Enclave sought isolation and narrowing bands of human purity. But they were from the outset also intent, not on mass survival, but on the autocratic control and wellbeing of a few elite masters. They were never about restoring civilization, they preceded its destruction and may well have participated in it. They're about the restoration of *their* power, *their people*. One race, one goal. Sound familiar?
@@TheSkullPanda Are you saying founders of Enclave in 2070s came up with this pure human ideollogy? No. It was created from isolation and moral deterioration of leadership during following decades. Further more, if FO2 Enclave succeeds in releasing of the FEV, their members in Continental America would die too. This only shows that none of purity was original pre war plan of the Enclave, but result of rogue elements.
I'm always really bummed out at how the Enclave basically exists to die because I really love the inherit message they present through their mere existence. Especially poignant in New Vegas, but I absolutely adore the idea of the Enclave being the great reminder. An antagonistic force that very rarely operates on a grand scale across the Wasteland but serves as a punishing reminder that for as bad as it is out there, you're never going to encounter soldiers and people more qualified to ruin you than remnants of one of the most powerful governments ever to exist in the lore of this franchise. Speaking of Remnants, the Enclave Remnants absolutely smearing Legion like a shit stain across the pavement in New Vegas is my favorite example of this. All the barbaric cruelty and monsterous eugenics of the Legion all amount to boys in the yard playing with sticks once *real* soldiers come out to play and while it's cool and heroic in context, it also demonstrates why the Enclave are so scary. On almost every level, the Wasteland stands no chance which is why Lyon's chapter of the Brotherhood taking them down is so substantial. (And only happens because of us, mind you.) I hate that this faction is just *gone* nowadays, even moreso since Fallout 4 basically turned the Brotherhood into the Enclave but worse in every way. The Brotherhood of Steel has always been a more... let's say "blunt" faction to understand yet the spotlight they get suggests that they have as much depth and potential as the Enclave when I genuinely don't think that's the case.
Lol how are the enclave anymore scary than the master or father Elijah? Sure they created the scorced and FEV but the fact they failed to keep hoth of these under control just shows they're more incompetent and lackwitted than terrifying
I love this channel solely for discussing my favorite faction. Still pissed that the Autumn route wasn't available in fo3. I want the Enclave to be in the next Fallout series particularly A major faction that is neutral in morality. Something like a phantom haven in the wasteland for everyone to join. A haven for redemption. Mostly made up of Veterans and their son's and daughters. Hardened enough without the power armor and not dependent to guns. There should be new enclave rendition who keeps hunting old world technology to use it for the good of humanity. Instead of hoarding the technologies like what the BOS does. They would actually use it for the good of the wasteland. Secretly distributing supplies to small factions and towns. Secretly punishing criminals by hitting them at night. Leaving raiders and strong mercenary factions to be scared shitless. Sticking to the shadow government title. Think of it having a scout ranger regiment. The enclave at this point is both brutal and effective. As they commit war crimes at times to send a message on an opposing faction. Then unfortunately the enclave will be hunted by the NCR or BOS for having a "bad history" and the power to compete against them. They should also have a route to help them rebuild a part of America.
Using technology for the good of humanity is a Followers of the Apocalypse thing. The Enclave are dicks, from the 21st to 23rd century, there really isn't much worth maintaining there.
Hopefully we can get a decent Enclave story dlc for F76 at some point. Also i hope F5 will have the Enclave as a joinable faction with it's own story line and a cool companion. Lol when will F5 even be released? Maybe in 10 years probably.
I have a an idea for a fallout that takes place in Detroit. The factions include, The brotherhood (since there technologically savvy enough to handle a building that has a laser mounted on top), a sort of NCR type government, called the “Monroe, Detroit Government” (localized in the town of Monroe south of Detroit) A raider gang called The Iron Roadhogs, who utilize the machines that gave Detroit its nickname of “The Motor City”… for reference look at the mad max game. And, of course, a NON-VILLAINOUS Enclave that after surviving in Alaska for over 200 years flies from Alaska to Detroit to take control of the Laser attached to the Renaissance Building to keep it from falling into the wrong hands. (There are not connected to the mainland Enclave, or the ones that were on the oil rig and are still following their initial mission to retake, and save Post-War America). I would also love to make this an actual fan game (like fallout London) but A: In a teenager, B: Can’t Code, C: Don’t Have the drive to make it a reality.
Honestly, ive stumbled into this video but as a avid Fallout fan since at least decades, this content has been one of the best ive encountered in weeks, good work at long live the enclave
First of all, Congrats on 30k. Secondly I love your content for 2 simple reasons. First. You actually talk about the Enclave with reasoning and a clear perspectiv. Secondly you actually put a lot of effort and work into the videos. Like the last one that had a million choices. Very entertaining.
Fallout 4 would've been a great game to join the Enclave too. You literally play as a pre-war soldier with combat experience, who is untouched by the radiation from the war (Literally the reason why Shaun gets kidnapped by the Institute to make synths). You remember the America that was, have military experience, and are a "pure" human, it would have been perfect.
tbh I kinda like the X-01 but my main issue with the APA is *who's fucking jaw fits in that?* Is everyone who works for the enclave literally Gigachad?
Hopefully Bethesda takes the lesson they learned from 76 and apply that to the Enclave in the future. That lesson being it’s boring as hell to “larp” as a member of a dead faction. Actually let their be npc members that we can interact with, agree/disagree with. Makes us question the faction and our own beliefs.
I think fallout needs to move forwards each game. The Enclave were defeated, let them be defeated. Make a new threat, something that shows the changing world or a new area. Then you can show how the previous games actually mean something. If nothing changes, then it makes the journey of the previois protagonist meaningless.
Well it's hard to replace the Enclave, it has so much potential and also it is probaly one of the best factions in Fallout why ruin them like this? The BoS appears on every chapter and honestly is quite annoying considering how everything goes in their favor.
I remember when I played fallout 3, I followed Eden’s plans and was extremely disappointed. I wasn’t a huge fan of the aftereffects of the poison but I was like “screw it why not, I like the enclave” and proceeded to get slammed down by the game for the entire ending screen basically telling me I’m evil and my character was evil and everyone died because of me. This is why I honestly kind of hate f3, in fnv, no matter what choice you make you don’t get judged by the game. Everything’s morally gray and I like it that way, it gives me choice. I play games to enjoy them, not to get slammed for making the wrong decision in a game about giving you your own decision.
@McGusse don't even bother the fallout community has become a walking hypocrisy. They just love picking on F3 cuz it's the cool thing to do but when it came out it was all they talked about. I played both and I love both but being so negative towards a game for the sake of sounding like a smart ass really turned me off from the community 😒
@McGusse Remember, the Legion is quite bare-bones and somewhat shallow simply by virtue of New Vegas being as rushed as it was. Perhaps we could see civilian life in the Legion beyond that one Arizona caravan worker at the Fort, but that guy is all we got and will get.
OId comment but I don't think it's true that FNV doesn't judge your actions. Sure the ending slides don't outright state you are evil, but some definitely have much sadder tones than others. Also, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure there is an ending slide that outright calls the courier a monster or something. An evil karma legion character with caesar dead maybe? Okay I just checked and yes, bad karma side with legion caesar dead gets you this: "The Legion marched over the Hoover Dam with the help of one who was as brutal and merciless as the worst of them: The Courier."
I had this same feeling with the Thalmor in Skyrim honestly. They seemed so important yet you couldn't work with them in any way whatsoever. It would of been quite epic if you could have, had them weaved into the Dragonborn quest line, as a double agent working for the Thalmor, betraying the Blades after the Dragon problem was solved, and then trying to undermined the Empire by aiding the stormcloaks just enough to keep the war going as the Thalmor planned. It would of been so much fun.
Honestly, as nice as it would be, the Thalmor we did get was alright. Like it got the point across, and they also strike me as very much elitist. If you roll a High Elf yourself, they still think you're beneath them. Plus, they're elves. Like I'll take any excuse to go Whitestrake on their arses and finish what Ysgramor started. A fleshed out Thalmor that we can find SOME empathy in would've been fucking cool, but I don't mind them being just utterly remorseless. No apologies, just straight up smug elves waiting for an axe between the eyes.
I feel that one big reason on why the player can't join the Enclave comes down to the fact that they'd only allow 'pure humans' to join their number, the only Fallout Protags to fit that bill would be the Vault Dweller from the original Fallout, the Sole Survivor from Fallout 4(which notably lacks any Enclave presence), and maybe the player characters from Vault 76 in that game.
Even Colonel Autumn had problems with that, and he was open to recruiting outsiders and use clean water as a bargaining chip for people to join the Enclave.
People like playing as the bad guys, because being the bad guy is both bad ass and cool. But theres a difference between being the bad guy and being the *"BAD GUY"* .
Controversial opinion (maybe?): I liked Lyons' Brotherhood. A lot. His ideals of wanting to use the technological and military superiority of his chapter to actually help the citizens of Maryland pacify and rebuild the state along with purify the water supply made me want to fight for him. iirc there's many Brotherhood members who act with mild to moderate superiority towards wastelanders, but the Lyons are my kind of paragons.
It's good to want to help. Project Purity will significantly reduce the number of ghouls. However, Lyon should eventually charge caps for things. Interference can actually harm, it's not like the brotherhood is in the business of setting up governments. Plus doing things for free would undercut the local security economy.
Fallout 4 is my favorite brotherhood. They help people but are very clear that they will do it in their way and will ask for something in return (food). For the most part I did not like fallout 4 but that was pretty good.
Fallout 5 should maybe be the recalling of all remaining (How little there is) Enclave Outposts, hideouts, and bases. So this will finally be the LAST of the Enclave, raising the stakes. They will recall to a state, maybe further east where you could meet a defeated (or prospering) Legion, that want to kill the Enclave and continue their expansion East. While the Enclave want to finally, after all of this time, effort, and mistakes, want to actually help the people of the Wasteland by not fucking murdering everybody. Also some other new factions to make the game spiced up and fun, maybe splinter groups of the bigger factions or new, location-based factions, like tribes of people that want to join the Legion or are at war with the Legion. Thanks for reading my ideas! Edit: Also, of course you can join the Enclave and try to help them enact their plan to truly free the East Coast from all anti-American ideals and people. It will be a strong enthusiasm with nationalism, and you can go off the deep end and become sort of facist with the Enclave, insuring safety with little individuality. Or you can go Democracy, insuring freedom and choice with less of a focus on safety. Have pros and cons to make each decision matter. And PLEASE have a reputation system, there's nothing more immersive then consequences. Edit 2: And a joinable Legion faction, because True to Caesar!
Maybe they could make it like Telltale games. Say you get the 4th chapter of TWD Seasons but you don't have the previous 3. Before you start your game you get asked questions in regard to what you would have done in some important situations and then the game builds off that. So they could do the same and that way we could get a prospering legion, defeated legion. Same for the NCR and so on.
This is why the Whitehill path for America Rising 2 is the best course for the Enclave. They may still not be saints per se, but with Whitehills direction, they can help rebuild society and possibly work peacefully with certain factions (eg The Minutemen)
Joining the Enclave would be an interesting (and awesome) idea, but I can only see it as the “Kill everyone” path, the enclave wants to control America, and the wasteland is in the way of that, so the only option is to destroy the wasteland so you can have America all to yourself, so why help wastelanders or other factions if they won’t be apart of the new America anyways. It’s the coolest way to cleanse the wasteland, but it doesn’t leave much room for anyone but the Enclave.
It would be cool to see a future game where instead of starting as a vault dweller or some random mailman, you could start as a brotherhood initiate or enclave private, completing various objectives for the respective faction, maybe getting a promotion or two, until a major threat shows up, maybe a reformed super mutant army or some new advanced faction. Then, the player can choose to go multiple routes: Destroy the new threat under the banner of their faction, betray their faction and join the rising threat, or maybe, meet up with brotherhood/enclave (depends on player's faction) and negotiate an alliance, and we can finally see the two most advanced factions in the wasteland fight side by side
In Fallout 2, in the Poseidon Nuclear Reactor within Gecko, multiple other locations are pinged on “Posidonet” when querying about them, including Iron Mountain and NORAD, implying these are other Enclave bases across the country. Now, it is notable that both appear to be “offline,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re dead, just that they might not be open to Posidonet. Plus, the fact that it doesn’t query a place like the Whitesprings or Raven Rock is interesting as well. While in the real world this is simply because the developers of Fallout 2 didn’t know these locations would ever exist, in-universe it could mean that certain Enclave/Poseidon Energy stations only had access to certain other stations. The Whitesprings may simply be cut off from querying other bases beyond Raven Rock and the Oil Rig.
Exactly. The Enclave, as a thematic representation of the fascism and authoritarianism that drove the United States to its ruin, was set up from the start to be a problem that comes up again and again and again; just like real fascism. Saying "we have finally defeated fascism once and for all boys" is always the moment when fascism is handed the ability to regroup and rebuild, and that is exactly what the Enclave is meant to represent.
or...you know, Poseidon energy had a huge reach pre-war? The Gecko powerplant wasn't an Enclave base. The Enclave being everywhere actually spoils them as a faction. If they were so dispersed they'd have all evolved uniquely/separately and wouldn't even be remotely similar 200 years after the war.
wouldnt it be cool if fallout 5 could have a dlc where you play as an enclave soldier escaping the rig as it blows up and the afterward encounters and battles
They should make the Chicago outpost and the Enclave Navy canon. A game taking place in Illinois would be fun, or with ship the Enclave could pop-up almost anywhere there’s enough coastline.
The Enclave is the villian we all want to be the good guy. Because they are effectively the old world rebuilding. I'm very sad we have never had a good cannon Enclave perspective game or story dlc.
Fallout is (well, was) about how _new_ civilisations grow out of the ashes of the old. The Enclave is the old; the longer it hangs around, the more it muddies the tone. They were fun, they were great antagonists and the Remnants were interesting ripples, but it's really time to let them go and move on in terms of new content. I agree with what you said at the end, the series (creatively) needs a reset. I personally wouldn't mind seeing more tribal stuff, more of humanity reaching that "ancient civilisation" level. More in the vein of the War Boys from Fury Road, less wastelanders cosplaying as the US Army. Always thought the beast masters from Tactics were a criminally under-utilised idea.
I agree - Obsidian's FO3 (Van Buren) really kept going that way and has major themes of building railroads for instance. Fallout should be a "wild west" feel and not "the bombs just fell" type world.
Perhaps, or they could still exist in other forms. I'm thinking that they could be a secretive faction inside a place like the NCR. They are descendants of shady government bigwigs after all, why not keep with the tradition of subverting democracies through corruption. They could even be a good explanation as to why the NCR is so stagnant and incompetent in New Vegas. The rot of this Enclave-Illuminati faction might be poisoning the NCR from the inside.
I wouldn't mind a Renaissance-style wasteland involving convoluted states and ornate design, where wastelanders feel safe enough to start exhibiting a distinct culture without having been shielded when the bombs went off.
I'd like to see a Fallout game exclusively set in a dense postwar urban city-state instead of a lawless frontier-esque wasteland. Maybe in one of the NCR's cities, or a remote part of the US that wasn't as damaged from the bombs and recovered quickly but was still isolated from the rest of the country.
Something Ive always wanted is an enclave faction witha more progressive leader, someone with good ideas, a faction that would actually try to rebuild the wasteland similar to the NCR
That, or an aggressive Enclave more concerned with territorial control than mutant extermination, that would butt heads with the NCR, demanding that it relinquish territories outside of the state of California to the remnants of other state governments, and that the NCR accept US statehood.
Independent modders have handled the Enclave far better than Bethesda. Though I shouldn't be surprised seeing as how little thought they put into understanding their own lore. I thank God for the America Rising mod in FO4 so I can larp to my heart's content
I love how they are just ready to do what they want to do. Too many stories have villians that wah wah wah, I want a big bad who enjoys being evil for whatever reason.
Why 4? There is nothing redeeming about 4 at all. 3 was bad enough, but it was still enjoyable. 4 is all the bad things about 3, multiplied, and all the good things removed.
@@equalityforever302 Personally i cant even look at 3, it makes my eyes hurt and thank GOD they fixed the Repair and Speech skill in NV Even the Enclave dont want to be in /that/ game are screaming for release.
Fallout: a monstrous, deformed creature warped by the horror of the wasteland with a core of humanity within should players be able to reach it Fallout 2: a monster even before his mutation, emboldened by the FEV and warped into an unstoppable psychopath completely set on his mission Fallout 3: some guy
The longer the series and the canon continued, the more the Enclave were redeemed for extreme methods. At first, of course they seemed the "villains" because it was our first introduction to the world and its problems. However, seeing the way everything has continued to decay without them, it is bound to make us wonder if their methods might have been necessary.
That's only because the writing has gotten progressively worse. The whole point of the original games is that the world CAN get better. The Enclave want to return to pre-war society, and repeat the mistakes that ruined the world in the first place. That's the tragedy of their ideology, they are too obsessed with their memory of the old world to recognize the potential of the world as it is. The Enclave desired one last war to clean the slate and fix the world, but they will inevitably fail because war never changes.
Because the new games suck. In the first 2 the post war world was rebuilding, there was hope for that future beneath all of that despair. The NCR forming in fallout 2 is a testament to that. They take place far earlier on the timeline and already show that growth and progress to rebuilding the broken world, but bethesdas games show a world that is just what you'd expect immediately after the war. Their dogshit writing is why the enclave seems tragically right, when the initial intent was that they were tragically wrong
@@samuelbishop1701 are you looking for moral high ground in a setting where humanity destroyed itself over ideals in the first place... and where whats left is on the brink of extinction? I don't think the average denizen in the FO universe really cares all that much about whether their "justified" in how they acquire their one can of beans to feed off for a week.
Definitely need a better bad guy for Fallout. The Enclave are a great example of the old world Evil and incompetance. Bethesda has done a decent job keeping that true.
I think it would have been better for the Institute to be some branch of the enclave. It would be fairly easy in lore to do since the institute is a prewar faction. You can pretty much say they were some science division and made the original bunker after the rest of the enclave began heading off shore. And then have remnants of the enclave from the capital wasteland be there as well. It’d give more reason for the brother hood from the capital wasteland to show up and take such individual interest in the institute and make them pretty much “finishing the fight” instead of making them just show up to show force and fuck over the institute
I think Fallout 5 should be in the Midwest with Enclave having a hidden presence and you can put them in power over the areas surrounding Chicago. I have a plot that I thought of that uses parts of Fallout Tactics and also that line about ED-E trying to find a Chicago Enclave base. Basically, the story is that after Fallout Tactics the Midwestern Brotherhood took heavy casualties getting to and fighting the forces of the Calculator which ended up resulting in a split that has one Brotherhood in Chicago and another in St. Louis. Then when the Enclave forces fleeing east pass by some of their forces stay in Chicago with the base there and the rest move on west. Now the Chcago Brotherhood knows they are there but don't know where. Then when Lyons goes through to the east the Midwestern Brotherhood isn't very nice to them and forces them onwards which leads to the idea of a rogue Midwest Chapter. Then when the game happens you get to pick the St. Louis Brotherhood, Chicago Brotherhood, and the Enclave. The St. Louis Brotherhood want control of the Midwest, the Chicago Chapter wants to hide away, and the Enclave wants to start rebuilding America out from Chicago. They also have infiltrators that are inside the Chicago Brotherhood and the player can either use them to destroy them or to put the Enclave in control of that Chapter. Then you go on and take on the St. Louis Chapter.
@@the-letter_s because I'm a fan of the Enclave from the old fallout games and I wanted to hear omegas take on what's what with them. You say that like old fallouts don't exist lol
@@Herrenvolk1933 i don't see what liking the older games (i do too) has to do with not wanting any more fallout releases. could just say "i don't want another fallout from betheshit studios".
Honestly I think a Fallout game set in Middle America where the core plot point is the Brotherhood fighting the Enclave for the remaining nuclear sites sounds like a good time. Introducing us to a less politically affiliated Enclave faction opens the door for them to become more altruistic being lead by US military remnants rather than politicians.
It feels like the enclave if it were in a new fallout game would be a small force you effectively wipe them out 3 times. First the oil rig second raven rock and lastly the mobile destroyer. It feels to me that the enclave is on its last legs.
Here's an idea, introduce some new factions! The Brotherhood was a tiny group of soldiers who deserted in Califronia just before the bombs dropped, they shouldn't be found enmasse or flying Vertibirds around Appalachia. The Enclave hid on the Poseidon Oil Rig, founded a base at Navaro as a stop over to refuel their Vertibirds, again they don't even have the logistics to be on the East Coast...Then we've Super Mutants who shouldn't exist outside of California, maybe neighboring states, their creation required multiple unique circumstances beyond "FEV"...Bethesdas biggest problem is a lack of imagination!
Here's an idea they could do: A place where the Enclave has won, specifically in one of the games have a territory controlled by the enclave, the enclave can be joined if you want, but the enclave are extremely authorization, they make the rules and you follow them or you die. But the area controlled by the enclave is also the safest area of the map as the enclave haven't been fucking around and have been going out and eliminating threats, they can even offer missions to clear places out or arrest people. If you side with them the enclave will begin crushing the other factions and assimilating their territory, by force if they refuse to submit. If you beat the game while sided with them the slide show will tell how the enclave over the next few years will strengthen their hold over the territory they've claimed before beginning to expand outward at a slow but steady pace. There philosophy in this game will be a "Bring back America" type ideology but their interpretation of it.
Based on your point made at the end, I also agree that the interconnected story that started with 3 and seems to keep going in 76 should come to an end. I've long wanted to see a Fallout game set in another country, and I think Canada could be a really interesting region. The chance to branch off and use new environments and locations, factions and characters is really interesting. Lore wise it will be fun seeing these new stories and how the area was effected in depth. It's just something I have personally wanted to see.
A fallout taking place right as the nukes going off and within that time window would be sweet place to finish the enclave, by having a bit of an introduction. You work with your fellow soldiers weeks after the earth is cleaned in fire, establish a foothold in some critical facilities and infrastructure for communications etc. before the bottle caps, the mutants, the ghouls (maybe some), and before the mutated creatures. A world full of absolute strife, crazy weather from the nuclear winter settling in, and your simple mission of repairing some communications infrastructure just got a whole lot more interesting. Idk, space stuff, re establishing their presence, maybe political drama within, obtaining research, there is so much that can be done in this era.
I've always wanted something like that, like maybe just a DLC where you're a soldier that lives through the great war and you just see society crumble around you as you try to maintain order. I think it would have been way cooler if Fallout 76 was set like 5 years after the war of something. Thank you, you've rekindled an idea that maybe I can make into a video about down the line.
I've always found it weird that Bethesda never does this and instead seemingly tries to shoehorn a Fallout 1-esque atmosphere of "shortly after the background radiation has subsided enough to be habitable" into a timeline that is extremely late for that.
I actually had an idea for a Fallout 5 that would include the enclave as a playable faction. The year is 2309, after a costly war the Minutemen have driven the increasingly imperialist Brotherhood of Steel out of the Commonwealth, uniting it under a new CPG and expanding their influence to the crown jewel of the east coast: the Empire Wastes of New York City. The brotherhood would hold JFK airport with a damaged Prydwen, the Minutemen Liberty Island, and a reformist Enclave would be based out of a bunker in the Empire State Building.
I mean, New York has never been in a fallout game yet it’s mentioned several times. In the fallout 4 beginning it is said in the news news that it was one of the sites of the nuclear explosions. It was basically like Boston who had a nuclear explosion right next to it. It’s a giant city that deserves a game of it’s own in my opinion. So yes I think your game idea would be good.
@@HeWhoComments1 I actually had an idea to explain why NYC isn't just a radioactive hellscape: The bomb went off in the Hamptons, hitting all the rich people and turning that area into basically the Glowing Sea but with radiation geysers.
I think to sum up the enclave, they were never meant to be considered varied or good, the enclave at it's core is always meant to represent the reactionary remnants of old america and serve as a mirror to that society and their leaders (supremacist ideals, ends justify means, all that). While the brotherhood is more of a conservative faction, they are also focussed on the past (in their case tech), but they move with the times, for them it's always about a general idea of what they wish to preserve, but they can change according to their world. The enclave on the other hand is meant to always take pre war america as it's core aim and never strays from this ideal. A case can definitely be made for a lack of philosophical nuance when dealing with the enclave, but I think making the enclave be less varied than the brotherhood is a deliberate decision.
@Mastercraft Mainframe I don't find it ironic at all, to think yourself an elite you assume a position of power in which you do not question your legitimacy and therefore fail to adapt and evolve, leasing to a philosophical decay as all you ever known is a status quo that needed no adaptation.
Accept the fact that the entire lore of The Enclave is that they are the US government they're not some faction made after the bombs fell they're the US government remnant that survived on an oil rig offshore and then after the bombs fell came back to the mainland to retake the country not to mention that Fallout 1 and 2 already saw their West and East Coast bases being completely destroyed by the Brotherhood of Steel so of course they're always the big bad who is everywhere and nowhere at the same time they're the government and the reason that we're not allowed to join them is because since they survived on that oil rig and avoided the radiation they see themselves as a more pure form of human and everyone on the mainland as less than them that's why they call everyone a Muti even if they're not actually a mutant
One complaint I've had about the enclave is the name. Enclave. It sounds like they would operate in a similar manner to the brotherhood chapters with *Enclaves* of pre-war civilization. Like the Vaults or Covenant, it sounds like they're a collection of isolated pockets of actual pre-war America- with all its flaws and shortcomings, mixed with a health dose of the apocalypse. Instead, as you mentioned, they're just generic boogiemen. They exist wherever you can imagine there's a bunker, their leadership is.. AI now? And their ideals are whatever we can cook up that sounds evil enough today. I love the enclave and this franchise has done them dirty from start to finish.
They haven't been the villains since Fallout 3. Fallout 76, you could actually join them. In New Vegas, you could recruit them. And they only made the Enclave the villains in Fallout 3 because of it being a holdover from Fallout 2.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Dude, that's been the case since Fallout 2. They've been always painted as the bad guys. That, and the last time that they were a faction that you can fight was in Fallout 3.
Instead of replying to everyone individually, for anyone wanting to comment along the lines of;
"The Enclave is evil"
- You can join the Legion
- You can blow up a town with a nuclear bomb or poison the water with FEV and many more incredibly evil things already
"You can't join the Enclave because they don't allow mutants or outsides"
- Fallout 76, the currently supported game takes place 25 years after the war, the Enclave hasn't even developed a dislike for mutants yet.
- Before their destruction, the Enclave in Fallout 76 expanded their numbers by recruiting a military unit from D.C.
- Fallout 2's Enclave has an anti-mutant policy set by the leadership, but as you find out by interacting with the citizens of the Enclave there's a wide range of opinions on the matter, this is further reinforced by the remnants in New Vegas.
- By Fallout 3 the entire conflict within the Enclave is based around this, Colonel Autumn defies Eden's plans to poison the water.
- Outsiders have joined the Enclave in Fallout 3 such as Stiggs and Anna Holt.
- In Fallout 3, the army the Enclave uses to take control of D.C. is almost exclusively young men. It's very unlikely this could be achieved with out recruiting outsiders.
Saying the Enclave (as an institution) isn’t more evil than the Legion is like saying the Nazis aren’t more evil than the Romans. The show has confirmed that the Enclave was willing to start war themselves, or at least let most of the country burn in nuclear fire. The Enclave only took over Project Purity not DC, and they didn’t have a large army. Last and most important despite their cool gear and organization skills, the Enclave as an institution has no redeeming traits (Legion at least had honor).
I think a reasonable explanation of why you can't join the enclave in fallout 1,2 and 3 is because new vegas wasn't made at that point, so bethesda wouldn't have thought that being the villain would work in a game, but after they saw the success of new vegas they added a villian faction to fallout 4. Although not as evil as the legion or enclave, because of how complex fallout 4's story is.
Oh, so it *is* a video about a fasch that wants a joinable faction in Fallout, thanks for clarifying that with a pinned comment.
I thought it was a based video about how Enclave really should've been destroyed already, but keeps popping up, because Bethesda is creatively bankrupt.
@ys5pj couldn’t join them in Fallout 2 either, so it isn’t just Bethesda pal. The Enclave is objectively the evil and ill redeemable major faction in the Fallout franchise, since the Institute and Legion at least had some redeemable traits.
@ys5pj colonel Autum was still a evil fascist prick who didn’t care at all (publicly or privately) about helping most of the wastelanders. Just because someone is more moderately evil doesn’t mean that someone still isn’t evil.
The closest I ever got to joining the enclave was in Fallout 2 when I decided to stay at my post guarding the Vertibird Hangar in Navarro…
WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOUR!!?
@@EnclaveChad Uh... Me not have.
@@Bob-fh4ht DON'T HAVE ANY?
YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIVE THAT, MAGGOT?
THE TRUTH IS YOU LOST AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF ARMY-ISSUE EQUIPMENT.
THAT SUIT IS GOING TO COME OUT OF YOUR PAY
AND YOU WILL REMAIN IN THIS MANS ARMY UNTIL YOU ARE FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD
WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY FOR A
MARK II POWERED COMBAT ARMOR YOU HAVE LOST!
REPORT TO THE ARMORY AND HAVE A NEW SUIT ISSUED TO YOU, THEN REPORT BACK TO ME, PRIVATE!
DISMISSED!
@@Bob-fh4ht DONT HAAVE ANY? YOUEXPECTMETOBELIEVETHATMAGOT
@@Mimikkyudayo The truth is you lost an expensive piece of army-issue equipment. That suit is going to come out of your pay, and you will remain in this mans army until you are five hundred and ten years old, which is the number of years it will take for you to pay for a Mark II Powered Combat Armor you have lost!
"Oh you can't join the Enclave, they're evil!"
*meanwhile mofos joining Caesar's Legion in FNV*
Caesar’s was done so poorly. It isn’t ever really shown much of, so it inevitably gets such a harsh rap. Heck the main goal isn’t known to what I’d argue is 99%+ if the player base. Caesars is a means to an end. To destroy the NCR and all forms of governance that follow the old world doctrine, so a new one, built by and for the wasteland would rise in its place. Unironically, they have a good point, and Caesar even knows that it isn’t built to last.
@@markjacobs3232pretty sure most of the legion content/backstory was cut due to time constraints from Bethesda's strict launch window for Obsidian. ofc they are evil but they probably would've been much more interesting
@@markjacobs3232 he doesn't have a good point, you really missed the main theme of the entire Fallout franchise if you think this, which is that humans will bring conflict with them where ever they go. Caesar is not a special case, and he certainly gives us absolutely no reason to believe that day-to-day life in the wasteland will be better under his rule than NCR's or House's. you also didn't read anything about Roman history and about how that nation turned out.
the guy is basically a college student that read one book about politics and is now posting on 4chan about how smart he is. no idea how anyone thinks he's supposed to be a good choice. he doesn't even realize that even if he achieves his goal he has no guarantee that he will not be killed in a military coup (as has happened many times in Roman history) for simply dictating that all of his soldiers must now give up their former way of life to settle down and farm. even if a minority of soldiers mutiny, it won't matter if most of the loyal ones trade swords for plows
@@CrizzyEyes He does give good points through his actions. Do you know why his territory was the easiest to cut for content due to time constraints? Because as a player it would be BORING. The roads are safe, more than can be said for most of the game. No raiders, bandits, slavers, deathclaws, geckos etc. It is actually almost unique, bar some of the previous 1 and 2 games in limited areas.
Also, his point, as I must reiterate, is NOT TO BUILD. His goal is to destroy the NCR as he sees it as the last vestige of the old world, and a toxic growth that failed. He believes it should be snuffed out, and when it is, then finally a new governance built by and for the wastes can take over. And NO NOT HIS. He acknowledges his nation is build entirely around him, and when he dies, it will fold. The goal is not to build the new civilization built for the wastes, but to remove the old cancer that is failed bureaucracy that put the world into this state in the first place, to give that new future a chance. Basically, if you hate the old governance, and want a different future, and are willing to let people get hurt, a lot of people, for that potential future, you side with Caesar. He's evil due to his callousness with the lives of others, but he does have an argument, especially when you learn that the NCR is more a semi-oligarchical monarchy, with feudal lords known as Brahmin Barons, that takes and demands from others regardless with they agree or not.
That is why the game is good. It starts where you see NCR as the good guys, Caesars as the bad, and by the end if you pay attention, they each have their own points and goals, and it's ultimately up to you which future you want.
@@markjacobs3232"No raiders, bandits and slavers" this is basically like saying the Great Kahn had no raiders attacking him
Bethesda: "You can play as the BoS, but you have to kill the entire underground railroad"
Also Bethesda: "No you can't play as the scary guys in sexy Power Armor, they're EVIL! They want to oppress you!"
It wouldn't make sense for some random vault dweller to join the Enclave though. The same can be said for the Outcasts.
Purging the "railroad" is good option. These degenerates are flooding the world with bioengineered abominations.
killed the railroad for the minutemen with preston easy pickings
@@femmemachete A vault dweller would be much more likely to be accepted im since they are not a muttie, if the enclave is not genocidal and you help them, why would they not accept you as some kind of special agent like the brotherhood does? A character like Nate would have been even more likely to be accepted also.
Yet they let you play with Caesars Legion in New Vegas which imo is more fun and gratifying than siding with NCR
The Brotherhood is just the post war ATF: Change My Mind
I can never side with the brotherhood again.
The ATF? The BoS was formed as a rebellious military unit that rejected the US Government's actions.
Sounds pretty anti-federalist to me.
that's why they hate enclave the ATF wasn't allowed into the enclave
Dogmeat did not like you joining the BoS
Damn... I guess it'll be 'On Sight' from now on.
Everyone forgets Hawaii. It's a perfect Enclave headquarters. It's a perfect local for a fallout game. A beautiful place with a military bases and city's totally forgotten by pretty much everyone in the wasteland.
Well, in the Fallout fanon there is a Enclave presence in Hawaii, but they are considered peacefull and lightly armed and have near to no connection with the mainland Enclave. But I support the idea, would be a cool game.
Enclave in Hawaii would be super cool, Enclave in mount rushmore would also fit.
Everyone forgets about Puerto Rico, and that it could be a great spot for the enclave
I could see Hawaii, or at least a small part of it like Pearl Harbor being a DLC location or a final boss location comparable to the oil rig, but I dont see Bethesda making a whole game out of Hawaii
Bruh the issue is Hawaii would've been absolutely glassed to destroy the naval base, like just completely annihilated. This was a war with China after all
This is why I love the “Enclave Reborn” sub-mod to the “Old World Blues” mod for Hearts of Iron IV. In a nutshell, after the fall of the Rig and Navarro Sergeant Dornan manages to rally the survivors and lead them east to a military base just north of New Reno. While Dornan was content to lead the survivors until they were safe he is adamant that he has no desire to lead the Enclave indefinitely (he’s a sergeant, dammit, he works for a living!) so the Enclave must elect a new President and the choice is down to two candidates with vastly differently ideologies:
Franklin Anderson, an Enclave scientist that is a strong believer in that the Enclave *must* cleanse the wasteland (and the world!) of mutants in order to ensure the survival of the human race and that the ends to achieve this goal justifies the means.
The other candidate is Douglas Granite, son of Sergeant Granite from Fallout 2 (and *maybe* the Chosen One…), a man that is more open to the idea of compromising with (and maybe even incorporating!) the Wastelanders into the Enclave if it means restoring America to its former glory.
Each side is shown to be not entirely good or evil and playing as one side is vastly different from playing the other. :) Sure it’s a just a mod but it does a hell of a better mod fleshing out the Enclave than many of the actual Fallout games does!
i like that mod too its realy refreshing. thoug they kinda don't seem to update it
Completely agree, not to mention the added realism the mod authors added to this mod, like, after taking over the NCR and choosing Granite, you actually have to deal with the completely overextended system that you have before the legion attacks
How is Franklin Anderson supposed to be "not entirely false"?
I mean he literally wants to game end all of wastelanders, that pure evil
@@kermer1017 They just dropped a massive new update redoing the NCR, BoS, and that general area and also adding a bunch of new countries to Montana and Western Canada.
@@kermer1017 Bro they just did
todd saw this and was like ,,YOU WANT MORE ENCLAVE IN FALLOUT4???''
And you can’t join the enclave still
@@migmagson tbf you seal their X-02 so I doubt they'd be accepting of you with open arms.
Just let the Enclave die. They went for the gold in California and again in DC. They went bust and faced total obliteration twice. The state of the Enclave in FNV is exactly how they should be: old veterans and their kids trying to put the past behind them and integrate into other communities.
Exactly, we destroyed them way too many times. Give them a break
@@youcefbou8078 or let the FUCKING WIN FOR ONCE
My idea of Fallout 5 in terms of story in which the villain returns to be the enclave and you can join them, in the good ending they would be destroyed and in the bad ending they would win, what differentiates it from the others is that in this one the canon ending is the bad, canon ending is that the enclave wins and becomes an influential power in the wasteland.
Bethesda split the Enclave into three factions in Fo4
The Brotherhood: Power armor wearing zealots trying to destroy mutants
The Institute: high technology and living underground and the "only pure humans"
The Minutemen: Patriots devoted to restoring old world order and government
I never got the Brotherhood complaint, how many damn Mutants and Feral Ghouls do you have to put down in the game just playing normally.
Makes sense to wipe them out the drooling noobs.
Oh, interesting. Smart Move Bethesda
I'd like if Enclave bases become akin to haunted houses, there's a funny meme about it
Seeing as the wasteland is normality, seeing a perfectly functioning Enclave base would be the real horror story wdythink
@@jamesgoldring1052 I think so, doe I would love if a Enclave Base was turned into a Trap Gauntlet like that one parking lot in Fallout 4.
Real sweet reward, a ton of traps and very little wriggle room.
@@Subject_Keter Awesome idea
Maybe the Enclave purposefully makes their base spooky to ward off tribals and naredoowells
If I were the enclave, i would've traveled to Canada but yeah
@@Subject_Keter the brotherhood is a bland faction that is nothing like the original. They were extremely reclusive, as well as violent amd merciless against those who had tech and weren't willing to hand it over. They didn't have plans for conquest or taking over anything. Destroying mutants isn't even their main point
Personally, I hate the idea of a ' good ' Enclave. I feel like the Enclave works best as a more developed antagonist. Not villain, but antagonist. They should be developed to show their humanity and their good parts as well. The Enclave should embody the phrase, " The Ends Justify The Means ". The games should make it clear that if the Enclave succeeded in wiping out all muties, ghouls, abominations, other humans, etc, then the world would quickly rebuild to rival it's pre-war glory. But the player should ask themselves whether the chance of a better future is worth sacrificing the lives of millions and destroying years of humanity's progress. I feel like the Enclave is the most interesting this way. People who advocate for a reformist Enclave literally just want the NCR with Power Armor. The Enclave should still be human, they are still people, it's just the leader's plans which are considered evil. The Enclave are the true government, they are America, just not like the one we remember.
A "good" Enclave does defeat the point of the faction, I still want them to be a playable faction, just with the stupid removed, and wanting to kill everyone who isn't you is stupid. It's sort a problem that Fallout 4's poorly written Brotherhood was portrayed as more like what the Enclave should be; an authoritarian military that brings swift justice (poorly in the Brotherhood's case) and exterminates the abominations of the wasteland. The Enclave should protect the people of the wasteland because by God they're still American citizens.
Fallout 5: Invasion of the Moonclave
Reformist Enclave could be and option in Enclave civil war scenario.
Completely agree but I would still like a playable enclave. Similar to caesars legion in new vegas a faction you can side with that are clearly worse than the other ones
I think the player should be given an option to align with them, if not being directly in their faction. The Enclave aren't completely averse to outside help/dealings (IE the Salvatores in Reno in Fallout 2) and if the player proved themselves capable enough I don't see why they wouldn't, *especially* Autumn
To be fair, the Enclave ARE villains. I still wish we could join them, but I don't want some good guy version of the Enclave, because that's not the Enclave
Well, in Fallout 3 you can role play as an Enclave agent by infecting the water and destroying the Citadel.
@@istvanbera9893 Yeah, at the end of the game right before the credits, and your decision doesn't really affect anything in the DLC because the BoS just clean the water up again.
Villians never fit into Fallout Narrative, especially now that they grow out of black and white. The only villains are bandits, raiders, and fiends. A faction needs to be controversial. and have a gray area worth discussing. Heck, you can be evil and side with NCR in Fallout NV, you can prioritize NCR farm over the lives of people from Vault 34 and Westside, you can choose to wipe out The King and throw Freeside into chaos, and you can solve missions in an evil way. You can intimidate, threathen others to do what you want. If Enclave is just evil then the player freedom would be greatly diminished.
@@manofbree6739 Then just don't make them a major faction. Nobody wants to join the Enclave as their end game faction but realize that it's some morally grey lesser version of the ACTUAL Enclave.
with the TV show just dropping, this aged beautifully
Thing is, I wish this would have aged like milk T-T
Forget the show, they're making a DLC to add the enclave to fallout 4 and its tomorrow
@@TheVenomousBeetleyou still can’t join them. That’s all I ever wanted
@@dancalvano8702you have to be born into the Enclave. The Enclave started to continue the government.
@@Bizz4r2m0ke but Nate is a soldier born before the bombs dropped. He’s not irradiated and there is a link between the enclave and Vault tec. He should be the exception
The Enclave is my favorite faction in Fallout I think that's how I wound up here ha...
Omega always has the best theory vids
I always end up in Galactic Empire related content.
Enclave, Galactic Empire (Palpatine did nothing wrong), Imperium of Man, etc, etc. All the best factions are the supposedly "evil" ones, doesn't matter what piece of fiction you're looking at.
femclave!!!
Me and NCR arizona ranger: welp time to kill ANOTHER enclave.
I would’ve liked to see an expansion on 3’s half-hearted civil war, choosing to side with the brotherhood, Eden’s enclave or Autumns enclave could’ve been an interesting story, coming to a three way war over the purifier with the lone wanderer choosing whoever would best fulfill his family’s dream
I agree, it would be cool to join the enclave but have them divided internally. You could choose between full evil enclave and all that or you could maybe overthrow the leadership and maybe have some redeeming qualities and not just kill everyone who isn't enclave 🤣 I'm not saying make them all friendly and happy, but less dickish and more open to people joining them and having reason to do so
My only issue would be given how nitpicky people are, what is the % and the straw that would break the Camel back.
It would be cool if you came to them kicking so much ass that both of the Enclaves try to recruit you so you dont rekt them. Only way imo they would even bother with a normie.
Autumn's Enclave are pretty much the best option.... Distributing water to the wastelands without taxing everyone and segregating the water to specific people... Like the Brotherhood....
Autumns enclave every day
I would jump onto autumn's enclave like a Fiend jumps on jet
I've always wanted to join the Enclave in the fallout games. Restoring America and taking back territory from random pop up factions seems like it would be a great time. Fighting hordes of different types of enemies with your smaller, better equipped, better trained group of "American soldiers" would be exciting. Also doing occasional hearts and minds type missions to incorporate vault dwellers or other settlements back into the Enclave would have fleshed it out a lot. They don't even need to be "good guys". Just as ambiguous as the other factions.
Play the America Rising 2 mod, it just released.
this wouldnt make any sense for what the enclave actually are
They dont have to be the good guys
No faction has to be
It should all be who do you side with or whos ideology or morals macth with
That would require decent writing, which contemporary game studios are basically incapable of.
You do understand that the enclave would, at best, view you as a slave, and at worst, view you as a crime against nature and shoot you on sight?
This is like Jews saying they'd like to be Nazis. You are actively trying to join a faction that wants you dead, and it's a question of whether they shoot you now or work you to death in a factory instead.
This actually aged like wine considering the recent fallout show and subsequent retroactive addition of the enclave onto fallout 4 through an update that no one could’ve ever predicted 😂
I would have thought that in Fallout 4, instead of getting the brotherhood, we would have gotten the retreating remnants of Fallout 3's Enclave and the soul survivor could have helped them rebuild in the Commonwealth and maybe even ally with the minutemen or gunners
Well, maybe it's better we didn't get the Enclave in that game.
Good thing there’s a mod for that, bud.
@@DevixianTheOriginal I have not heard of it.
@@TheOmegaInitiative maybe, but I hope there is another faction out there in the wastes that can fill the void of the Enclave
@@gabrielaldworth7476 maybe descendants of the local military
The “shadow government” description comes from the fact that the enclave has been repeatedly explained to be the organization that was pulling the strings of the pre war government before the war.
But if the president and his cabinet were actually part of the Enclave, then it is not really a shadow-government anymore. That's why the term "shadow government" seems a bit out of place.
@@robbetorfs4093 An organization like the Enclave would never truly answer to the President and would have members who are more or less free to do whatever they want with little to no oversight. In my opinion that still makes it a shadow government as there are parts of the Enclave that have zero scrutiny from anyone.
@@robbetorfs4093 Yeah it is weird. Shadow government pulling the strings? No, it IS the government, sure maybe they’re pulling the strings in other branches and taking complete control, but that’s just corruption, not a shadow government.
I think Bethasda was misusing the term "shadow government" when they really meant "secret society". They're typically depicted in fiction as both but in reality are not necessarily the same thing.
@@robbetorfs4093 I think the reason why it's called a "shadow government" in this case is because the organization itself was not publicly known and therefore was able to build its bunkers in scrutiny while the rest of the world struggled to prepare for the bomb. Just because the organization held high positions in government (that they used as leverage to further their plans) does not mean that it represented the whole structure of the pre-war US govt.
*looks at fallout show* *sighs*
My favourite factions are the Shi and Enclave, and I think a big reason that they don't get much love is their technological advancement. Bethesda refuses to let their world grow and change after 200 years, with perpetual radiation, pipe pistols, scavenging, and shanty towns. Enclave and Shi are a wrench in those gears, relegated to the periphery of the world instead of becoming interactive on a faction level.
Which is a shame considering the entire point of fallout WAS showing how the world adapted and grew out of the worlds greatest tragedy…
You may thank Bethesda for the Shi faction. Obsidian originally wanted to establish as canon that San Francisco was blow up by an atomic bomb. However, Bethesda refused this and told Obsidian ti keep the Shi alive
@@larckpack1692 I would rather the creators of fallout put that pony out to pasture after telling an engaging story that utilized the location and characters, than Bethesda make another post apocalyptic Far Cry-telltale game with San Francisco as the backdrop: specifically because I liked that faction.
I'm actually surprised the shi was at least mentioned in fallout 4 but that's really it
Fallout games where meant to be post post apocalyptic games Bethesda made fallout four seem like it took place 15 years after the bombs rather then over 200 years why are they so many gouls why are so many raiders why is they only one city why can the player just build towns why wasn’t sanctuary already full of people due to it being in a safe area
I really think the Enclave Schism should’ve been elaborated on more. You should’ve been able to help Autumn overthrow Eden and work to reform the Enclave. Maybe in a future installment we’ll see a fractured Enclave where we can join the remnants that follow Autumn’s ideas or the ones that follow Eden’s as an optional split side faction.
That also raises an interesting question, for me at least. Who was right? Eden or Autumn. There was no real way for them to go into that more unfortunately but I'd definitely take something exploring that over Point Lookout.
@@twinzzlers Well Autumn was probably more right because he was not going to kill everybody by lacing modified FEV into the purifier. Autumn just wanted the purifier so he could gain influence over the capital wasteland.
Enclave electoral college
@twinzzlers Eden, definitely Eden, even if just from a pragmatic standpoint in the fact that it wanted to actually remake a pre-war America, whilst Autumm was closer to the West Coast's ideology.
@zwilder1 Autumm wanted control over the purifier in order to kill everyone non Enclave.
The original fallout creator has a youtube channel and he explains what he wanted to do with the enclave and it was so cool. I would check Mr. Cain out !
Could you tell me which Tim Cain video that was in (where he talked about what he'd have liked to see with the Enclave)? I've watched a lot of his stuff (awesome channel), but don't think I've seen that one.
@@SabiJDi think its his one about the vault experiments.
I think the main problem is that Bathesda is creativelybankrupt and feels the need to bring back old staples of the series even when thye make no sense with estabished canon. They rely on old, recognizable concept and factions like the Brotherhood, the Enclave and the supermutenants even when that completely contradicts the lore because the current writers have no good ideas of their own, and even if they did they would be squashed by marketers who want recongizable elements that the fans can feel nostaalgic about. So they are forced to rehash ideas created by the much more talented writers of the first two games forever because any change risks alienating the fanbase and Bethesda, lacking any artistic integrity, will just try to recapture what could be popular with no intention of inroducing any new, creative idea. It's a garbage company which, in my opinion, hasn't made a genuinely good game before or since Morrowind.
Daggerfall deserves some praise for its incredible technical achievements for the period. I've also heard that the reason why Morrowind was so unique is because the designers had to coerce Todd into accepting their designs by priming him with even weirder, more alien designs, so he would settle for their already weird and alien designs.
@@CrizzyEyes Todd was a quest designer in Morrowind, so whatever you heard is wrong. Also Daggerfall was horrible because of the huge randomly generated dungeons, as an RPG is was unplayable. Arena was amazing though.
Well said
They really are just the post apocolypse siths at this point
And just like Siths they've been done dirty by the "canon lore" because the writers are lazy hacks.
dick richardson is the senate
Except in KOTOR you could actually side with the Siths.
I've always felt that the reason that the Enclave is portrayed as evil is because of the fact that they're led by a genocidal or megalomaniacal leader. If they had a guy like someone in the Enclave Remnants in New Vegas, they could be seen as a morally grey faction. I've always seen the Enclave as more of a faction that's as good or as evil as the man behind the faction.
the whole point of them is that the pre-war values that defined the United States is what destroyed the world in the first place.
They are doomed to fail because they have not learned from the end of the world.
So… just like almost every faction then.
Because genocide is definitely below slavery. Or blowing up a small town for fun. Or killing an entire race of people in a town. The list goes on. But please explain why THIS particular evil is extra bad compared to every other evil in the series that we are allowed to commit.
And that's just on the premise that they genocide people when they don't. They accept recruits. Eden wanted to genocide for some fucked up reason. Autumn wanted to just control water distribution. In 2 they didn't genocide either. Granted yea not exactly the most moral group but which faction isn't a little tainted in a way? It's like people forget the whole phrase of this series. War never changes. Why wouldn't we want to experience it from all the factions pov?
@@orrorsaness5942 Effectively.
Very true, the enclave has so much potential. Its leaders are out of touch from reality.
I loved Arcade Ganon's quest in F:NV
It was so heart-warming and the armour is sick.
6:41 You cant join them because they are Evil!
*Ceasars Legion exists*
Honestly it's probably because the Enclave represents a real life nation and could be seen to be encouraging extremism if they paint them in anything but a negative light. Video game companies also tend to be very left leaning and are the type to range from disliking patriotism to disliking their country itself.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Dude the enclave is literally based from the deepstate, it literally was always meant to be evil, its based of from all the long list of bs that some federal branches were up to, 14 years prior to fallout's 2 release the MK ultra had been publicly admited by the CIA (and had been floating as a conspiracy theory long before), 5 years prior (1993) the CIA had been involved in the case of what publicly was promoted as a red of child exploitation and satanic ocultism (more especifically in the case of the finders, the CIA full on sabotaged and cancelled the FBI's investigation which would latern end in the FBI's and public demand of the CIA at the start of this century), the federal government in our real and in fallout's world is full of bs, the point of how terrible fallout's pre-war world was is that imperialism and ultra-capitalist politics are never to be supported, they end up in the resource wars and well war, war never changes.
For the sake of fairness, should be noted the Legion is easily the most boring faction to join with the least amount of things to do
@@Snavels Yes, but no, the thing with joining Caesars Legion being that empty, is that while obsidian wanted to add more, their dates with Bethesda and their own greed (mainly the first tho) didn't allow them to complete them, the Legion is one of the things with the most cut content in NV, and we are talking NV that game has quite a lot of cut content
@@KirbyKitten Don't even bring Bethesda into this, they had a date that Obsidian fully acknowledged and agreed to. Bethesda contracted them to have a game between Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Bethesda couldn't have given them more time even if they wanted to. Obsidian has made it very public that Bethesda is not to blame for this, so don't fucking even.
I totally agree, the thing is personally i'd be alright with keeping them as villains but i'd at least want them to have differing agenda's instead of it just being 'poison anyone who isn't us'. An example would be that a new division of the enclave in a new location would simply want to have themselves as a ruling class and the wastelanders doing the dirty work instead of killing them. I just want something that diversifies the faction.
That's pretty much the reason why we want to see them as playable factions. It's not because we support "fascist paramilitaries", it's that it would be a good opportunity to hear how they would present their side. The "villain monologue" is a trope for a reason, it's to present the audience a full introduction to the antagonist. The audience could disagree with their convictions all they want (in fact, that's what antagonists are for), but with the right amount of effort in the writing, we could at least understand why they should be taken seriously.
Fallout 2 had this moment with the Enclave at the very end, pretty much depicting a sheltered, bureaucratic, and corrupt society that callously throw away the lives of wastelanders as collateral damage for their clean-up of the continent. Is the Enclave wrong for wanting to purify the wasteland from post-apocalyptic wastes? No, of course not. Should the Enclave give the wasteland a chance despite all the misery and death in it? I'd say no, but it's not a clear answer. Is the Enclave wrong for killing and actively sabotaging surviving communities in the wasteland in order to pursue their goals? Absolutely. So, why do they do what they do? They want to purify the wasteland and rebuild America. Do they have something to justify it? Yes, they want to make the wasteland actually habitable again. And why should we stop them? They'll rebuild America under the graves of people trying to rebuild their own communities in the wasteland. And boom, there's your well-written antagonist. Through these small introductions, these little banters between two sides of an argument, you established both the ruthlessness and intimidation of the Enclave and the bravery of the BoS, NCR, and the Chosen One for standing up to it. We simply don't get that in modern Fallout when it comes to the Enclave, as they're oftentimes presented as unquestionable malevolent forces repeating the same old goal of "muties bad". At that point, they're not a faction to be taken seriously. They're a generic placeholder, a backdrop of an evil, omnipotent force you have to overcome, when in reality, they really are just plain, unapologetic bigots. And that just sucks.
Without this metaphorical discussion between the faction and the audience, the Enclave would remain exactly the way they are in Fallout 2. No progression, no nuance, no character.
@@wojak-sensei6424 I mean its a 50/50 on what the community wants (in the case of this comment), some do be suggesting the same you do of the enclave mantaining its inherent evil that it was designed to hold, others seem to actually support the massive genocide part (which is really not getting fallout at all)
@@wojak-sensei6424 I always viewed the Enclave as it was originally presented as the elite class from pre-war US basically continuing to do whatever the fuck they want, which in this case is ridiculous science experiments (intelligent Deathclaws) and mass murder based on the weird assumption that no one in the wasteland is redeemable except Vault dwellers. They're kind of stupid, but that is intentional, because the pre-war US government was kind of stupid, which is why we're in this mess to begin with. They're living almost purely off of resources set aside for them before the war even started, enabling their own stupidity.
But those are only the leaders. The rest of the Enclave are there because they're just cowards who want to live in pre-war levels of comfort and safety and are willing to give up pretty much anything for that. If you talk to any Enclave members other than the scientists or the President, they always talk about mundane shit, or the task they're currently doing. They don't really act like a cult, never talking about how much they want to kill mutants or how good it will be when the wasteland is "cleansed" so they can re-settle it. They don't take security that seriously, as evidenced by Dornan and Camp Navarro. They also seem to take their resources for granted, since Dornan tells you to just get a new suit of APA and report for duty.
I always interpreted it as a statement of what evils ambitious people are capable of when everyone else is a simpering coward who just wants to be safe.
What you said was literally what Autumn and human enclave members were trying to do in F3
If the Enclave was the be brought back again, I would hope it's in the form of a group that wants to play the long hual. Each Enclave appearance so far has been trying to take America back by force, I'd love to see an Enclave group do what the NCR has done and actually build up communities and gradually tame the lands. Imagine them like Vault City but larger in scale.
That goes against the Enclave's plans of purging irradiated DNA out of the human genepool. Legion slaves would be safer than Enclave slum citizens unless the Enclave decides to fail their eugenics quest.
See that sounds like something the enclave could do, and a logical one at best, just the only thing they have to worry about is when the ncr and the Bos hears about their survival , as long as the enclave can get enough support from the community’s they built and protected they can form a defensive line that will truly hold
@@HighSentinel Given that the Enclave is the Federal Government, this Enclave would likely demand that the NCR reaffirm the state of California's membership of the US and thus the Enclave, so that would likely be a good source of conflict.
The Enclave should re-establish the family structure and focus on breeding for labor.
If it were to be brought back, I think it would be similar to the NCR but far more brutal to achieve results but also more efficient. Perhaps this version is a splinter group that left because they thought that the virus was too extreme or where just isolated from the start.
Isn’t the enclaves whole things hating “mutants”? Why would they let someone from the wastes join?
No one here actually understands the faction apparently, so your guess is as good as mine.
This here lies the problem, and probably the reason we've never been able to join the Enclave... By the time we first encounter the Enclave in every Fallout game, we have succomed to the ways of the wastes... There ought to be a Fallout game where the Enclave inflitrate a Vault and kidnap Vault dwellers to train into soldiers for their cause... And you are one of them. (At some point you can choose to defect from them)
Did you say the Enclave wasn't evil in Fallout 2? The organization that killed literally anyone who isn't part of the Enclave? Fallout 2s entire story is based around the Enclave being evil
One only needs to watch the intro of Fallout 2 to understand the Enclave
@@Chraan This is why I hate nerd culture sometimes,you get decades and people forget the messages of old that still apply
I hope in the future, Fallout 5/whatever Fallout is next will ACTUALLY give us a full Enclave experience.
It would be interesting to see how they became evil
I hope that Bethesda will stop reusing Enclave/BoS as their main or secondary factions and will create something original.
My hope is that the Enclave kidnaps the MC’s sibling in FO5’s intro.
@Acrolon Easy answer for the Enclave is that though they’re isolationist, they already existed across the country before the Great War.
@Acrolon they're two sides of the American military,itd make sense that they exist across the states
You perfectly summed up my thoughts about Enclave. They are only treated as stereotypical 80s action villan who is bad just becouse he has to be.
Some people are actually bad and don't deserve a redemption arc. Nazis weren't some secretly deep and potentially nuanced org, they were dicks. The narrative value of the Enclave comes from positioning the former US government (the government most of the playerbase live under) as antagonists - painting a very different picture than current and past US propaganda dictates. Trying to shoehorn in some value to them undoes the original value of them being an enemy hiding in plain sight.
That's all they ever were though. Including FO2
@@TheSkullPanda Nazis were formed on idea of their superiority. Enclave was formed on idea of restoration of lost civilization.
I'm not saying Enclave as a whole has to get this new chance. We could only see a small group resist aginst this authoriatarian idea, even though they are endangering themselves.
It could show us there are still good men in bad enviroment and you can still fight evil even if you are encircled by it.
@@The-Enclave The first game to feature the Enclave demonstrated this better than any sympathetic lens could. In Fallout 2, we meet cooks and engineers, rank and file members who are themselves blind to the evils of the organization (which are fundamental to it, not some bad apples, but i'll get back to that). When we do encounter someone within the organization who can finally perceive just how awful it is, Dr Charles Curling is literally willing and able to about face and destroy the enclave with you. Even knowingly destroying those low rank and civilian members.
This is because, for centuries, even before the FEV dosed everyone on the continent, the Enclave was not an organization that cared about the people there. The framing of wastelanders as "mutants" was a ploy to dehumanize people who were judged in the way of the Enclave. Where the master had sought perfection in mutant survival, at the expense of most of humanity, the Enclave sought isolation and narrowing bands of human purity. But they were from the outset also intent, not on mass survival, but on the autocratic control and wellbeing of a few elite masters. They were never about restoring civilization, they preceded its destruction and may well have participated in it. They're about the restoration of *their* power, *their people*. One race, one goal. Sound familiar?
@@TheSkullPanda Are you saying founders of Enclave in 2070s came up with this pure human ideollogy? No. It was created from isolation and moral deterioration of leadership during following decades.
Further more, if FO2 Enclave succeeds in releasing of the FEV, their members in Continental America would die too. This only shows that none of purity was original pre war plan of the Enclave, but result of rogue elements.
I'm always really bummed out at how the Enclave basically exists to die because I really love the inherit message they present through their mere existence.
Especially poignant in New Vegas, but I absolutely adore the idea of the Enclave being the great reminder. An antagonistic force that very rarely operates on a grand scale across the Wasteland but serves as a punishing reminder that for as bad as it is out there, you're never going to encounter soldiers and people more qualified to ruin you than remnants of one of the most powerful governments ever to exist in the lore of this franchise.
Speaking of Remnants, the Enclave Remnants absolutely smearing Legion like a shit stain across the pavement in New Vegas is my favorite example of this. All the barbaric cruelty and monsterous eugenics of the Legion all amount to boys in the yard playing with sticks once *real* soldiers come out to play and while it's cool and heroic in context, it also demonstrates why the Enclave are so scary. On almost every level, the Wasteland stands no chance which is why Lyon's chapter of the Brotherhood taking them down is so substantial. (And only happens because of us, mind you.)
I hate that this faction is just *gone* nowadays, even moreso since Fallout 4 basically turned the Brotherhood into the Enclave but worse in every way. The Brotherhood of Steel has always been a more... let's say "blunt" faction to understand yet the spotlight they get suggests that they have as much depth and potential as the Enclave when I genuinely don't think that's the case.
It wouldn't be half as bad if they were written as good villains, apart from New Vegas they're always dumb, weak or both.
Lol how are the enclave anymore scary than the master or father Elijah? Sure they created the scorced and FEV but the fact they failed to keep hoth of these under control just shows they're more incompetent and lackwitted than terrifying
They were menacing because you didnt see them, just their actions
Doesn’t work cause you still see too much of them
I love this channel solely for discussing my favorite faction. Still pissed that the Autumn route wasn't available in fo3. I want the Enclave to be in the next Fallout series particularly A major faction that is neutral in morality. Something like a phantom haven in the wasteland for everyone to join. A haven for redemption. Mostly made up of Veterans and their son's and daughters. Hardened enough without the power armor and not dependent to guns.
There should be new enclave rendition who keeps hunting old world technology to use it for the good of humanity. Instead of hoarding the technologies like what the BOS does. They would actually use it for the good of the wasteland. Secretly distributing supplies to small factions and towns. Secretly punishing criminals by hitting them at night. Leaving raiders and strong mercenary factions to be scared shitless. Sticking to the shadow government title. Think of it having a scout ranger regiment.
The enclave at this point is both brutal and effective. As they commit war crimes at times to send a message on an opposing faction.
Then unfortunately the enclave will be hunted by the NCR or BOS for having a "bad history" and the power to compete against them. They should also have a route to help them rebuild a part of America.
Using technology for the good of humanity is a Followers of the Apocalypse thing. The Enclave are dicks, from the 21st to 23rd century, there really isn't much worth maintaining there.
Hopefully we can get a decent Enclave story dlc for F76 at some point.
Also i hope F5 will have the Enclave as a joinable faction with it's own story line and a cool companion. Lol when will F5 even be released? Maybe in 10 years probably.
@@Mestari1Gaming Indeed imagine a sentry bot companion.
Well hello there you handsome man
That'd only be able to happen in a pacific or Midwest setting unfortunately
I have a an idea for a fallout that takes place in Detroit. The factions include,
The brotherhood (since there technologically savvy enough to handle a building that has a laser mounted on top),
a sort of NCR type government, called the “Monroe, Detroit Government” (localized in the town of Monroe south of Detroit)
A raider gang called The Iron Roadhogs, who utilize the machines that gave Detroit its nickname of “The Motor City”… for reference look at the mad max game.
And, of course, a NON-VILLAINOUS Enclave that after surviving in Alaska for over 200 years flies from Alaska to Detroit to take control of the Laser attached to the Renaissance Building to keep it from falling into the wrong hands.
(There are not connected to the mainland Enclave, or the ones that were on the oil rig and are still following their initial mission to retake, and save Post-War America).
I would also love to make this an actual fan game (like fallout London) but
A: In a teenager,
B: Can’t Code,
C: Don’t Have the drive to make it a reality.
I know this probably won’t happen but, I wanna know your opinion on this take on the Enclave there Omega.
@@PerpetualAgonizingTorment Its really interesting i gotta say.
@@PerpetualAgonizingTorment Sounds like they could just do this in Chicago.
@@TheOmegaInitiative
(If you don’t mind me asking)
Why Chicago?
@@PerpetualAgonizingTorment Because there's already an established Enclave and Brotherhood presence in the city/region.
Of course you cant play as the enclave, why the fuck would the enclave want some random mutie as their ally?
"I don't understand how these two ideas overlap and therefore it is shit and Bethesda should retcon established lore since Fallout 2."
Bold stance.
nah nah I'm sick of seeing the Broterhood of Steel everywhere
edit: Okay you made a pretty good point as to why BoS isnt that repetitive
I absolutely love the enclave and it is a terrible shame how they’ve been treated in the lore.
I just wanna be able to actually join the enclave and have an enclave ending
Honestly, ive stumbled into this video but as a avid Fallout fan since at least decades, this content has been one of the best ive encountered in weeks, good work at long live the enclave
The real problem is lack of new and well developed factions and retunring to Enclave and BoS all the fucking time.
First of all, Congrats on 30k. Secondly I love your content for 2 simple reasons. First. You actually talk about the Enclave with reasoning and a clear perspectiv. Secondly you actually put a lot of effort and work into the videos. Like the last one that had a million choices. Very entertaining.
Fallout 4 would've been a great game to join the Enclave too. You literally play as a pre-war soldier with combat experience, who is untouched by the radiation from the war (Literally the reason why Shaun gets kidnapped by the Institute to make synths). You remember the America that was, have military experience, and are a "pure" human, it would have been perfect.
There is a mod called America Rising 2 for fallout 4 which is exactly what you are describing and its decent
Well they kind of are just evil. They want to eradicate all mutants and they see everyone but themselves as such...
As a non mutant I see that as a commendable goal.
tbh I kinda like the X-01 but my main issue with the APA is *who's fucking jaw fits in that?* Is everyone who works for the enclave literally Gigachad?
Yes
*If everyone is Gigachad, then no one is.*
Hopefully Bethesda takes the lesson they learned from 76 and apply that to the Enclave in the future.
That lesson being it’s boring as hell to “larp” as a member of a dead faction. Actually let their be npc members that we can interact with, agree/disagree with. Makes us question the faction and our own beliefs.
Too bad Bugthesda usually writes all their characters kinda bad and evil loving groups get splattered.
You people larping as a dead faction member all the time and now you complain about Fallout 76 having a dead faction?
This was a pretty good essay, just earned a sub
I think fallout needs to move forwards each game. The Enclave were defeated, let them be defeated. Make a new threat, something that shows the changing world or a new area. Then you can show how the previous games actually mean something. If nothing changes, then it makes the journey of the previois protagonist meaningless.
Well it's hard to replace the Enclave, it has so much potential and also it is probaly one of the best factions in Fallout why ruin them like this?
The BoS appears on every chapter and honestly is quite annoying considering how everything goes in their favor.
I remember when I played fallout 3, I followed Eden’s plans and was extremely disappointed. I wasn’t a huge fan of the aftereffects of the poison but I was like “screw it why not, I like the enclave” and proceeded to get slammed down by the game for the entire ending screen basically telling me I’m evil and my character was evil and everyone died because of me. This is why I honestly kind of hate f3, in fnv, no matter what choice you make you don’t get judged by the game. Everything’s morally gray and I like it that way, it gives me choice. I play games to enjoy them, not to get slammed for making the wrong decision in a game about giving you your own decision.
@McGusse don't even bother the fallout community has become a walking hypocrisy. They just love picking on F3 cuz it's the cool thing to do but when it came out it was all they talked about. I played both and I love both but being so negative towards a game for the sake of sounding like a smart ass really turned me off from the community 😒
@McGusse Remember, the Legion is quite bare-bones and somewhat shallow simply by virtue of New Vegas being as rushed as it was. Perhaps we could see civilian life in the Legion beyond that one Arizona caravan worker at the Fort, but that guy is all we got and will get.
@@Nagafan I never got the hate for fallout 3. I'm having more fun with that game than new vegas.
@@007megaoof yeah they both bring something to the table for me. So I love them both!
OId comment but I don't think it's true that FNV doesn't judge your actions. Sure the ending slides don't outright state you are evil, but some definitely have much sadder tones than others. Also, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure there is an ending slide that outright calls the courier a monster or something. An evil karma legion character with caesar dead maybe?
Okay I just checked and yes, bad karma side with legion caesar dead gets you this: "The Legion marched over the Hoover Dam with the help of one who was as brutal and merciless as the worst of them: The Courier."
I had this same feeling with the Thalmor in Skyrim honestly. They seemed so important yet you couldn't work with them in any way whatsoever. It would of been quite epic if you could have, had them weaved into the Dragonborn quest line, as a double agent working for the Thalmor, betraying the Blades after the Dragon problem was solved, and then trying to undermined the Empire by aiding the stormcloaks just enough to keep the war going as the Thalmor planned. It would of been so much fun.
Honestly, as nice as it would be, the Thalmor we did get was alright. Like it got the point across, and they also strike me as very much elitist. If you roll a High Elf yourself, they still think you're beneath them.
Plus, they're elves. Like I'll take any excuse to go Whitestrake on their arses and finish what Ysgramor started.
A fleshed out Thalmor that we can find SOME empathy in would've been fucking cool, but I don't mind them being just utterly remorseless. No apologies, just straight up smug elves waiting for an axe between the eyes.
They just needed a black and white Nazi-esque villain for you to fight
@ogre7699 what ysgramor started? Bruh I be putting down elves like my Yokutan ancestors be doing
@@darthrevan5609bro I be killing elves to avenge my nedic ancestors
edgy
I feel that one big reason on why the player can't join the Enclave comes down to the fact that they'd only allow 'pure humans' to join their number, the only Fallout Protags to fit that bill would be the Vault Dweller from the original Fallout, the Sole Survivor from Fallout 4(which notably lacks any Enclave presence), and maybe the player characters from Vault 76 in that game.
Even Colonel Autumn had problems with that, and he was open to recruiting outsiders and use clean water as a bargaining chip for people to join the Enclave.
People like playing as the bad guys, because being the bad guy is both bad ass and cool.
But theres a difference between being the bad guy and being the *"BAD GUY"* .
Controversial opinion (maybe?): I liked Lyons' Brotherhood. A lot. His ideals of wanting to use the technological and military superiority of his chapter to actually help the citizens of Maryland pacify and rebuild the state along with purify the water supply made me want to fight for him. iirc there's many Brotherhood members who act with mild to moderate superiority towards wastelanders, but the Lyons are my kind of paragons.
People just ignore his flaws, and the literal civil war in the brotherhood, just to shit on them. It's annoying.
That's why the east coast chapter is so good, I think Maxson learnt a lot form Lyons
@MrMadre Holy shit, a west coast fan also likes the east coast?
It's good to want to help. Project Purity will significantly reduce the number of ghouls. However, Lyon should eventually charge caps for things. Interference can actually harm, it's not like the brotherhood is in the business of setting up governments. Plus doing things for free would undercut the local security economy.
Fallout 4 is my favorite brotherhood. They help people but are very clear that they will do it in their way and will ask for something in return (food).
For the most part I did not like fallout 4 but that was pretty good.
Fallout 5 should maybe be the recalling of all remaining (How little there is) Enclave Outposts, hideouts, and bases. So this will finally be the LAST of the Enclave, raising the stakes. They will recall to a state, maybe further east where you could meet a defeated (or prospering) Legion, that want to kill the Enclave and continue their expansion East. While the Enclave want to finally, after all of this time, effort, and mistakes, want to actually help the people of the Wasteland by not fucking murdering everybody. Also some other new factions to make the game spiced up and fun, maybe splinter groups of the bigger factions or new, location-based factions, like tribes of people that want to join the Legion or are at war with the Legion. Thanks for reading my ideas!
Edit: Also, of course you can join the Enclave and try to help them enact their plan to truly free the East Coast from all anti-American ideals and people. It will be a strong enthusiasm with nationalism, and you can go off the deep end and become sort of facist with the Enclave, insuring safety with little individuality. Or you can go Democracy, insuring freedom and choice with less of a focus on safety. Have pros and cons to make each decision matter. And PLEASE have a reputation system, there's nothing more immersive then consequences.
Edit 2: And a joinable Legion faction, because True to Caesar!
there is technically a fallout 5 coming soon, but it's based in Britain, so I highly doubt there will be the enclave there.
@@sukaira9334 that's a mod made by fans, not an official Fallout game,
Maybe they could make it like Telltale games.
Say you get the 4th chapter of TWD Seasons but you don't have the previous 3.
Before you start your game you get asked questions in regard to what you would have done in some important situations and then the game builds off that.
So they could do the same and that way we could get a prospering legion, defeated legion.
Same for the NCR and so on.
@@sopadumacacoumadelicia5 thats a pretty decent idea actually
Too bad bethesda will probably never do it.
This is why the Whitehill path for America Rising 2 is the best course for the Enclave. They may still not be saints per se, but with Whitehills direction, they can help rebuild society and possibly work peacefully with certain factions (eg The Minutemen)
Joining the Enclave would be an interesting (and awesome) idea, but I can only see it as the “Kill everyone” path, the enclave wants to control America, and the wasteland is in the way of that, so the only option is to destroy the wasteland so you can have America all to yourself, so why help wastelanders or other factions if they won’t be apart of the new America anyways. It’s the coolest way to cleanse the wasteland, but it doesn’t leave much room for anyone but the Enclave.
It would be cool to see a future game where instead of starting as a vault dweller or some random mailman, you could start as a brotherhood initiate or enclave private, completing various objectives for the respective faction, maybe getting a promotion or two, until a major threat shows up, maybe a reformed super mutant army or some new advanced faction. Then, the player can choose to go multiple routes: Destroy the new threat under the banner of their faction, betray their faction and join the rising threat, or maybe, meet up with brotherhood/enclave (depends on player's faction) and negotiate an alliance, and we can finally see the two most advanced factions in the wasteland fight side by side
Fallout tactics, you're a brotherhood initiate
"a major threat shows up"
Some maniac in a Vault suit on an idiosyncratic quest all over the wasteland. Takes one look at you and starts shooting!
G damn that actually sounds like a good trama, specially compared with others in this comments
In Fallout 2, in the Poseidon Nuclear Reactor within Gecko, multiple other locations are pinged on “Posidonet” when querying about them, including Iron Mountain and NORAD, implying these are other Enclave bases across the country.
Now, it is notable that both appear to be “offline,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re dead, just that they might not be open to Posidonet. Plus, the fact that it doesn’t query a place like the Whitesprings or Raven Rock is interesting as well. While in the real world this is simply because the developers of Fallout 2 didn’t know these locations would ever exist, in-universe it could mean that certain Enclave/Poseidon Energy stations only had access to certain other stations. The Whitesprings may simply be cut off from querying other bases beyond Raven Rock and the Oil Rig.
Exactly.
The Enclave, as a thematic representation of the fascism and authoritarianism that drove the United States to its ruin, was set up from the start to be a problem that comes up again and again and again; just like real fascism. Saying "we have finally defeated fascism once and for all boys" is always the moment when fascism is handed the ability to regroup and rebuild, and that is exactly what the Enclave is meant to represent.
or...you know, Poseidon energy had a huge reach pre-war? The Gecko powerplant wasn't an Enclave base. The Enclave being everywhere actually spoils them as a faction. If they were so dispersed they'd have all evolved uniquely/separately and wouldn't even be remotely similar 200 years after the war.
wouldnt it be cool if fallout 5 could have a dlc where you play as an enclave soldier escaping the rig as it blows up and the afterward encounters and battles
They should make the Chicago outpost and the Enclave Navy canon. A game taking place in Illinois would be fun, or with ship the Enclave could pop-up almost anywhere there’s enough coastline.
The Enclave is the villian we all want to be the good guy. Because they are effectively the old world rebuilding. I'm very sad we have never had a good cannon Enclave perspective game or story dlc.
Perhaps one day they'll become good guys and make America what is used to be.
@@matthewpatrick7964 A rapacious imperialist power, ravaging the world in a desperate attempt to carry on its unsustainable consumerist lifestyle?
Fallout is (well, was) about how _new_ civilisations grow out of the ashes of the old. The Enclave is the old; the longer it hangs around, the more it muddies the tone. They were fun, they were great antagonists and the Remnants were interesting ripples, but it's really time to let them go and move on in terms of new content.
I agree with what you said at the end, the series (creatively) needs a reset. I personally wouldn't mind seeing more tribal stuff, more of humanity reaching that "ancient civilisation" level. More in the vein of the War Boys from Fury Road, less wastelanders cosplaying as the US Army. Always thought the beast masters from Tactics were a criminally under-utilised idea.
I agree - Obsidian's FO3 (Van Buren) really kept going that way and has major themes of building railroads for instance. Fallout should be a "wild west" feel and not "the bombs just fell" type world.
Perhaps, or they could still exist in other forms. I'm thinking that they could be a secretive faction inside a place like the NCR. They are descendants of shady government bigwigs after all, why not keep with the tradition of subverting democracies through corruption. They could even be a good explanation as to why the NCR is so stagnant and incompetent in New Vegas. The rot of this Enclave-Illuminati faction might be poisoning the NCR from the inside.
I wouldn't mind a Renaissance-style wasteland involving convoluted states and ornate design, where wastelanders feel safe enough to start exhibiting a distinct culture without having been shielded when the bombs went off.
I'd like to see a Fallout game exclusively set in a dense postwar urban city-state instead of a lawless frontier-esque wasteland.
Maybe in one of the NCR's cities, or a remote part of the US that wasn't as damaged from the bombs and recovered quickly but was still isolated from the rest of the country.
I want Fallout: Gobi.
Let's what's going in in China, and fill their Vault equivalents with Maoist socialist kitsch.
“X-01 looks terrible compared to the advanced power armor” could not have said it better myself my friend 💯📌
Something Ive always wanted is an enclave faction witha more progressive leader, someone with good ideas, a faction that would actually try to rebuild the wasteland similar to the NCR
That, or an aggressive Enclave more concerned with territorial control than mutant extermination, that would butt heads with the NCR, demanding that it relinquish territories outside of the state of California to the remnants of other state governments, and that the NCR accept US statehood.
Independent modders have handled the Enclave far better than Bethesda. Though I shouldn't be surprised seeing as how little thought they put into understanding their own lore. I thank God for the America Rising mod in FO4 so I can larp to my heart's content
Don't forget America Rising
@@captainbrad9866 that's actually the one I meant, I got the name wrong. Thank you for pointing that out
I love how they are just ready to do what they want to do. Too many stories have villians that wah wah wah, I want a big bad who enjoys being evil for whatever reason.
Why 4? There is nothing redeeming about 4 at all. 3 was bad enough, but it was still enjoyable. 4 is all the bad things about 3, multiplied, and all the good things removed.
@@equalityforever302 Personally i cant even look at 3, it makes my eyes hurt and thank GOD they fixed the Repair and Speech skill in NV
Even the Enclave dont want to be in /that/ game are screaming for release.
3:44 in all fairness that is like, half the factions in Fallout.
this is one of the reason i love the Fallout New California mod for Fallout New Vegas, it lets you join the Enlcave as a faction.
Fallout: a monstrous, deformed creature warped by the horror of the wasteland with a core of humanity within should players be able to reach it
Fallout 2: a monster even before his mutation, emboldened by the FEV and warped into an unstoppable psychopath completely set on his mission
Fallout 3: some guy
The longer the series and the canon continued, the more the Enclave were redeemed for extreme methods. At first, of course they seemed the "villains" because it was our first introduction to the world and its problems. However, seeing the way everything has continued to decay without them, it is bound to make us wonder if their methods might have been necessary.
That's only because the writing has gotten progressively worse. The whole point of the original games is that the world CAN get better. The Enclave want to return to pre-war society, and repeat the mistakes that ruined the world in the first place.
That's the tragedy of their ideology, they are too obsessed with their memory of the old world to recognize the potential of the world as it is.
The Enclave desired one last war to clean the slate and fix the world, but they will inevitably fail because war never changes.
Because the new games suck. In the first 2 the post war world was rebuilding, there was hope for that future beneath all of that despair. The NCR forming in fallout 2 is a testament to that. They take place far earlier on the timeline and already show that growth and progress to rebuilding the broken world, but bethesdas games show a world that is just what you'd expect immediately after the war. Their dogshit writing is why the enclave seems tragically right, when the initial intent was that they were tragically wrong
Are you justifying eugenics?
@@samuelbishop1701 are you looking for moral high ground in a setting where humanity destroyed itself over ideals in the first place... and where whats left is on the brink of extinction? I don't think the average denizen in the FO universe really cares all that much about whether their "justified" in how they acquire their one can of beans to feed off for a week.
Definitely need a better bad guy for Fallout. The Enclave are a great example of the old world Evil and incompetance. Bethesda has done a decent job keeping that true.
I think it would have been better for the Institute to be some branch of the enclave. It would be fairly easy in lore to do since the institute is a prewar faction. You can pretty much say they were some science division and made the original bunker after the rest of the enclave began heading off shore. And then have remnants of the enclave from the capital wasteland be there as well. It’d give more reason for the brother hood from the capital wasteland to show up and take such individual interest in the institute and make them pretty much “finishing the fight” instead of making them just show up to show force and fuck over the institute
WAIT. YOURE TELLING ME THE BAD GUYS ARE THE BAD GUYS????????!!!!!!!!! CALL THE POLICE
spoiler: bethesda can't write storylines.
I think Fallout 5 should be in the Midwest with Enclave having a hidden presence and you can put them in power over the areas surrounding Chicago. I have a plot that I thought of that uses parts of Fallout Tactics and also that line about ED-E trying to find a Chicago Enclave base. Basically, the story is that after Fallout Tactics the Midwestern Brotherhood took heavy casualties getting to and fighting the forces of the Calculator which ended up resulting in a split that has one Brotherhood in Chicago and another in St. Louis. Then when the Enclave forces fleeing east pass by some of their forces stay in Chicago with the base there and the rest move on west. Now the Chcago Brotherhood knows they are there but don't know where. Then when Lyons goes through to the east the Midwestern Brotherhood isn't very nice to them and forces them onwards which leads to the idea of a rogue Midwest Chapter. Then when the game happens you get to pick the St. Louis Brotherhood, Chicago Brotherhood, and the Enclave. The St. Louis Brotherhood want control of the Midwest, the Chicago Chapter wants to hide away, and the Enclave wants to start rebuilding America out from Chicago. They also have infiltrators that are inside the Chicago Brotherhood and the player can either use them to destroy them or to put the Enclave in control of that Chapter. Then you go on and take on the St. Louis Chapter.
I don't want another fallout especially not in the midwest
@@Herrenvolk1933 if you don't want another Fallout, then why are you here?
@@the-letter_s because I'm a fan of the Enclave from the old fallout games and I wanted to hear omegas take on what's what with them. You say that like old fallouts don't exist lol
@@Herrenvolk1933 i don't see what liking the older games (i do too) has to do with not wanting any more fallout releases. could just say "i don't want another fallout from betheshit studios".
@@Herrenvolk1933 your replies make no sense whatsoever
People call omega an enclave fanboy but like… he’s right
Honestly I think a Fallout game set in Middle America where the core plot point is the Brotherhood fighting the Enclave for the remaining nuclear sites sounds like a good time. Introducing us to a less politically affiliated Enclave faction opens the door for them to become more altruistic being lead by US military remnants rather than politicians.
It feels like the enclave if it were in a new fallout game would be a small force you effectively wipe them out 3 times. First the oil rig second raven rock and lastly the mobile destroyer. It feels to me that the enclave is on its last legs.
I would probably sympathize with Col. Augustus Autumn, because he seems like he's actually trying to help and restore America.
8:58 I think you could absolutely consider a rogue executive branch a "shadow government", especially if it operates illegally.
Here's an idea, introduce some new factions! The Brotherhood was a tiny group of soldiers who deserted in Califronia just before the bombs dropped, they shouldn't be found enmasse or flying Vertibirds around Appalachia. The Enclave hid on the Poseidon Oil Rig, founded a base at Navaro as a stop over to refuel their Vertibirds, again they don't even have the logistics to be on the East Coast...Then we've Super Mutants who shouldn't exist outside of California, maybe neighboring states, their creation required multiple unique circumstances beyond "FEV"...Bethesdas biggest problem is a lack of imagination!
the problem with Bethesda is that they are either really lazy with writing or they don't know what they are doing.
Both
Here's an idea they could do:
A place where the Enclave has won, specifically in one of the games have a territory controlled by the enclave, the enclave can be joined if you want, but the enclave are extremely authorization, they make the rules and you follow them or you die.
But the area controlled by the enclave is also the safest area of the map as the enclave haven't been fucking around and have been going out and eliminating threats, they can even offer missions to clear places out or arrest people.
If you side with them the enclave will begin crushing the other factions and assimilating their territory, by force if they refuse to submit.
If you beat the game while sided with them the slide show will tell how the enclave over the next few years will strengthen their hold over the territory they've claimed before beginning to expand outward at a slow but steady pace.
There philosophy in this game will be a "Bring back America" type ideology but their interpretation of it.
I love that Cannibal Johnson directly references Dorman’s rant
5:46 bold of you to assume there are writers
Based on your point made at the end, I also agree that the interconnected story that started with 3 and seems to keep going in 76 should come to an end. I've long wanted to see a Fallout game set in another country, and I think Canada could be a really interesting region. The chance to branch off and use new environments and locations, factions and characters is really interesting. Lore wise it will be fun seeing these new stories and how the area was effected in depth. It's just something I have personally wanted to see.
Canada? You mean... AMERICA!!
Yes
Long live the enclave...
A fallout taking place right as the nukes going off and within that time window would be sweet place to finish the enclave, by having a bit of an introduction. You work with your fellow soldiers weeks after the earth is cleaned in fire, establish a foothold in some critical facilities and infrastructure for communications etc. before the bottle caps, the mutants, the ghouls (maybe some), and before the mutated creatures. A world full of absolute strife, crazy weather from the nuclear winter settling in, and your simple mission of repairing some communications infrastructure just got a whole lot more interesting. Idk, space stuff, re establishing their presence, maybe political drama within, obtaining research, there is so much that can be done in this era.
I've always wanted something like that, like maybe just a DLC where you're a soldier that lives through the great war and you just see society crumble around you as you try to maintain order. I think it would have been way cooler if Fallout 76 was set like 5 years after the war of something. Thank you, you've rekindled an idea that maybe I can make into a video about down the line.
I've always found it weird that Bethesda never does this and instead seemingly tries to shoehorn a Fallout 1-esque atmosphere of "shortly after the background radiation has subsided enough to be habitable" into a timeline that is extremely late for that.
I hope the enclave comes back in a big way in the next fallout
I actually had an idea for a Fallout 5 that would include the enclave as a playable faction.
The year is 2309, after a costly war the Minutemen have driven the increasingly imperialist Brotherhood of Steel out of the Commonwealth, uniting it under a new CPG and expanding their influence to the crown jewel of the east coast: the Empire Wastes of New York City. The brotherhood would hold JFK airport with a damaged Prydwen, the Minutemen Liberty Island, and a reformist Enclave would be based out of a bunker in the Empire State Building.
I mean, New York has never been in a fallout game yet it’s mentioned several times. In the fallout 4 beginning it is said in the news news that it was one of the sites of the nuclear explosions. It was basically like Boston who had a nuclear explosion right next to it. It’s a giant city that deserves a game of it’s own in my opinion. So yes I think your game idea would be good.
@@HeWhoComments1 I actually had an idea to explain why NYC isn't just a radioactive hellscape: The bomb went off in the Hamptons, hitting all the rich people and turning that area into basically the Glowing Sea but with radiation geysers.
I think to sum up the enclave, they were never meant to be considered varied or good, the enclave at it's core is always meant to represent the reactionary remnants of old america and serve as a mirror to that society and their leaders (supremacist ideals, ends justify means, all that). While the brotherhood is more of a conservative faction, they are also focussed on the past (in their case tech), but they move with the times, for them it's always about a general idea of what they wish to preserve, but they can change according to their world. The enclave on the other hand is meant to always take pre war america as it's core aim and never strays from this ideal. A case can definitely be made for a lack of philosophical nuance when dealing with the enclave, but I think making the enclave be less varied than the brotherhood is a deliberate decision.
@Mastercraft Mainframe I don't find it ironic at all, to think yourself an elite you assume a position of power in which you do not question your legitimacy and therefore fail to adapt and evolve, leasing to a philosophical decay as all you ever known is a status quo that needed no adaptation.
It’s almost like Bethesda doesn’t understand the IP they bought.
Accept the fact that the entire lore of The Enclave is that they are the US government they're not some faction made after the bombs fell they're the US government remnant that survived on an oil rig offshore and then after the bombs fell came back to the mainland to retake the country not to mention that Fallout 1 and 2 already saw their West and East Coast bases being completely destroyed by the Brotherhood of Steel so of course they're always the big bad who is everywhere and nowhere at the same time they're the government and the reason that we're not allowed to join them is because since they survived on that oil rig and avoided the radiation they see themselves as a more pure form of human and everyone on the mainland as less than them that's why they call everyone a Muti even if they're not actually a mutant
JUST MOVE ON. MAKE NEW FACTIONS. JESUS CHRIST
One complaint I've had about the enclave is the name. Enclave. It sounds like they would operate in a similar manner to the brotherhood chapters with *Enclaves* of pre-war civilization. Like the Vaults or Covenant, it sounds like they're a collection of isolated pockets of actual pre-war America- with all its flaws and shortcomings, mixed with a health dose of the apocalypse. Instead, as you mentioned, they're just generic boogiemen. They exist wherever you can imagine there's a bunker, their leadership is.. AI now? And their ideals are whatever we can cook up that sounds evil enough today.
I love the enclave and this franchise has done them dirty from start to finish.
The Next-Gen update added an Enclave quest line
Would be cool if you could join the Enclave
They haven't been the villains since Fallout 3. Fallout 76, you could actually join them. In New Vegas, you could recruit them. And they only made the Enclave the villains in Fallout 3 because of it being a holdover from Fallout 2.
If you for some reason bother with the lore in 76, it's because of the Enclave that everyone is dead.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Dude, that's been the case since Fallout 2. They've been always painted as the bad guys. That, and the last time that they were a faction that you can fight was in Fallout 3.