What if America And The Soviet Union Invaded China Together?
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2022
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Not too happy with this video since it turned out so similar to my Soviets invaded China scenario, yet I hope you still enjoy it. To support the content leave a like and a comment, and subscribe for more.
I very much enjoyed it friend, great video, as always
16:42 insert rammstein song here
Where exactly did that video go to? I can't find it anymore for some reason...
@@y.r._same
“We do a little trolling” - Soviet Union and United States
Don’t worry it’s just a little bit of trolling right? :)
-usa towards the ussr
China: NOOOOOOOOO
@@Ivan-pw3sn USSR after 1day: failed
China: we do a little trolling
@@moedictatornoriega8475 never
Id love to see the Scenario "What if the Revolution of 1848 succeded at uniting Germany", this is one of my favorite Scenarios and i think it would be incredibly interesting for you to cover
I see two elements which really got in the way of a unifying push, at least one of which would need to be adjusted, but probably both:
1. Schwarzenburg's leadership of Austria during this crisis was masterful. His adept pragmatism, ruthless prioritization of resource expenditure, and his decision to indebt the empire to Russia for its intervention to assist with the Hungarian breakaway were all proven to be ultimately wise decisions for the Austrian state. They were not always popular decisions in the Austrian political establishment, so it is easy to imagine very different decisions being made at multiple points in the process, and the crisis having a far greater negative effect on Austria than it had in our timeline.
Austria also got a bit lucky with having the right military commanders in the right places to be able to fight Piedmont-Savoy to a standstill and then later to a victory, therefore retaining the wealthiest parts of their empire for another decade and a half. Austria prioritized holding their wealthy Italian lands in a huge, stubborn gamble, and it paid off.
In a scenario in which the Austrian empire collapses more aggressively, thus leaving a more substantial power vacuum in central Europe, Prussia may have given far greater priority to stepping in and taking a leading role in guiding the pan-Germanic elements of the revolution, as the risk vs reward equation would've been greatly shifted in the event of an Austrian collapse.
2. Friedrich William was too much of a romanticist and a legitimist to accede to his otherwise-strong pan-Germanic sympathies. His later attempts to create a united Germany in 1849 and 1850 were characterized by very limited concessions to liberals and to the non-landed classes, especially the latter Erfurt Union effort in 1850.
The Erfurt Union MIGHT have gone through effectively if Austria had collapsed completely, as hinted at in point 1. But I don't think that it would've been any sort of liberal dream in the spirit of 1848.
Instead, I think that we need to assume both an Austrian collapse AND another party to take the offered crown of the Frankfurt Parliament. The obvious choice would be Friedrich William's younger brother Wilhelm, the later eventual Prussian king and German emperor.
How do we do this?
We make Friedrich William suffer that same debilitating stroke which he suffered in 1857 in our timeline just over 8 years earlier, in early-to-mid 1849, while the Prussian king was still being offered the crown of Emperor of the Germans. A collapsed Austria can do nothing to oppose an 1849 coronation of Emperor Wilhelm, leaving just Russia and the significantly-less-invested and just-as-distracted France to offer and serious opposition. I don't see any Russian or French threats of war being actually carried out, without the legitimization of a consenting and participating Austrian state to lead the legitimizing resistance to German unification.
Venetia-Lombardy is taken by Italy, who obviously doesn't oppose the German unification, Galicia is likely ceded to Russia to mollify them, claims to Hungarian lands declaring independence are sworn off, and this leaves a Prussian-led Germany with possibly a hybrid political arrangement, in which German, Czech, and Slovenian lands outside of Prussia are organized in a manner reminiscent of a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system, and directly-controlled Prussian lands remain largely unchanged, with the same highly conservative, aristocratic social and political order in the larger East, and lands in the West chafing under the repressive Prussian system, and wanting to join their neighboring German regions in operating under a more liberal, representative system.
No real way of happening, it would have got every single country in europe in a panick of another Napoleonic wars and Russia, UK and France (once this one calms down) would had interfered to return to the status quo, the king didn’t rejected it for being a romantic, he rejected it because he knew what would happen if he accepted
@@Leo-ok3ujif Russia,France and UK stepped in Germany is screwed
@@JDDC-tq7qm
Exactly, if 3 great powers fight all at once against 1 great power they will win
Joint soviet-american military concepts are so interesting to me
This needs to be a Call of Duty storyline
Technically ww2 was soviet-american collaboration
What if Taiwan invaded China during the Korean War? (What if Project National Glory happened?)
Taiwan would be considered the Republic of China then. And ironically the people in Taiwan who support formally changing the name from ROC to The Republic of Taiwan right now would be considered leftwing sympathizers by the KMT in the 50s.
Tiwan would have to use there full might and even then I might not be possible with out us help
Taiwan wouldn't be able to get American support, as china signed a treaty stating they would cease fire on Taiwan, but America would have to stop supplying Taiwan or supporting it's deas of reclaiming the mainland
the kuomitang would be smash again
@@sgtreznov9869 smashed HARD
we do a little bit of trolling
- Kennedy and Khrushchev, probably
13:34 I reckon relations between russia and china would be a lot worse
15:36 Europe would be a lot more militarized and self guided
•And Russia and china would be poorer with russia having a smaller population
And if the Russian Ukrainian War still happens and I'm confident it will the Russian Federation May surrender considering his main Ally as China and live out a Chinese Ally and was trying to being weak sanctions will be a lot more effective so
China would actually benefit. It’s demographics would be much more healthy. USA is going to turn into a normal country because there’s now no enemy to rally against. Everyone benefits it seems, but the Chinese now hate the Russians and might attack Russia as revenge eventually when Russia becomes weak.
How would the Russian population be smaller?
@@thermslusitania1151 I doubt that a full invasion of Ukraine is possible in this scenario.
If a political crisis still happens in Ukraine then Crimea could be annexed by Russia and there's maybe a local conflict in Donbass but a full scale invasion is less likely because without strong China the US would be an uncontested world hegemon both militarilly and economically.
For Russia to invade in this timeline there needs to be some third power that could tip the balance in Kremlins favour by just being an adversary for Americans. So unless, in this timeline, somehow India is both more capable and more hostile to the US than IRL then Russia wouldn't dare to invade.
@@mastersafari5349lol Russia would still have nukes which automatically puts USA on a tight spot regardless Russia would still invade but I think they would settle for Crimea and the areas in Lugansk and Donestk
If anything, this scenario might hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union due to the immense cost of invading China. It's impossible to understate the cost in manpower and material such an invasion would inflict on the Soviet's lukewarm economy. Plus, maintaining such a large, populous country as a puppet state would continue to drain their resources even further. I could see this scenario collapsing the Soviets 15+ years earlier than our timeline.
It depends on how the actual invasion would go on.
After all Khruschev's USSR was a far less inhumane system than Maoist PRC. I doubt that Chinese people had that good of an opinion of Mao in 1960s. Especially since 1963 was just 2 years after "the Great leap" and consequent famine. If Soviets play their cards right and and make some allies in Chinese Communist party that are in favour of "a Soviet style of socialism" they might actually gain support from local population and play the whole thing not as blatant invasion but as a struggle against Mao's tyranical regime.
Man, this was released one day after my birthday, I guess this is a great late birthday present
(Late) Happy Birthday!
@@possiblehistory thanks
I hate to say it, but the US and Soviets teamingn together would just be gg for the entirety of anything humanity could muster. TWO superpowers is better than one.
So why didn't you team up with the Soviets if they were better for you?
@@tritium1998 i didnt say they were "better" for me. all i was commenting on was that two superpowers teaming up together is just monstrous. Whether you think the US or Soviets were stronger than the other, they were at least on similar grounds in terms of power.
@@tritium1998 2 differing ideologies isnt a good mixture for a alliance
@@idiot-yw5oq It works in the short term when both powers fear a small power becoming another rival who is unaligned with either. In the long term they'd be at each other's throats waiting for the right moment to strike, which has happened all throughout history.
@@tritium1998 they did team up in ww2 lmao. what on earth are you talking about? "but theyre not allies after that!!!" exactly. ask yourself why that happened..
I think it would be cool to see a scenario where Argentina becomes a power. At one point, they had a larger economy than the US, and Europe saw them as poised to be the power in the West! It would be cool to see this world where their existence may undermine the Monroe Doctrine, or any other things you can think of. Cheers!
... Argentina?
Fake as hell, lmao, nice alternate-reality Moonshine...
Uh, no, cope harder
@@mrjaman3752 I’ll take any South American nation becoming a dominant power. Although, Colombia is overdone so I’m going for the next best thing…
I agree its interesting but I think the reason people are negating is because you slightly screwed up the facts, their economy was bigger than italy’s and they had a higher gdp per capita than America, but their economy was never bigger than the American one unless we go back to colonial days.
Great video as always you are one of the best if not the best alternate history CZcamsr, could you do a what if byzantine survived to the modern day, idk what you want to do, no 4th crusade/didn't get diverted, manzikirt (but that has been done to death) christians win at the battle of varna, our some other way they survive. Our what if basil the 2nd had a child! An interesting what if that I saw no one had done on CZcams is what if the Russian succeeded at reforming the byzantines with the Greek plan. But anyways those are just subjections am always excited for you new videos!
What about "What if Scandinavia united before 2nd Schleswig war?" video?
I have heard somewhere that it was considered by Sweden-Norway and Denmark and it would have happened by Danish king giving up his Danish throne to move to rule over the Duchy of Schleswig-Holstein of which he was duke. That would have prevented 2nd Schleswig war which peace deal lead to Prussian-Austrian war, so it would have somewhat altered German unification, with possible alteration of Finnish and Karelian fate during Russian civil war if european history remained unaffected by these changes in Scandinavia.
Us and Ussr: “Teehee”
US ITTL: Hey, let's do an Iraq with China but 70x worse and with the Soviets.
USSR ITTL: Why did you bring up Iraq?
US ITTL: I... I don't know.
Big Afghanistan go boom. Assuming US spends 70x 4 trillion to control China, that would be 280 trillion dollars. US dollar is going to crash.
The US is having visions of the future!!!
@@DinoRicky Indeed
America wanted to do a bit of trolling
South Africa is a good example of the Russians and Americans teaming up to keep the Cold War bipolar
What happened in SA?
SA developed nukes
@@GMDGeojumper2011-bl8sx And how did the US and USSR intervene?
@@goodpol5022I think Soviets warned the US about possible preparations for a nuclear test by South Africa, and the US had a spy plane that confirmed the existence of the place
@@goodpol5022 they told them to please stop
Taiwan takes Hainan as compensation for getting blueballed
Thanks for doing this one for my birthday.
Could you do a if the Ludendorff offensive of 1918 succeeded and took paris
That is actually pretty cool and interesting to think about
With the right ppl in power working together something like this could have begun work towards a framework for a type of cooperative world government (in so much as the two superpowers would jointly dictate to the rest of the world's nations), but more likely it would have ended very badly since the right ppl are so so rarely where you need them.
soviet union and commie china are shown as besties during the cold war but actully they were more closed to a war with each other than with the united states lol
huh? Sino-Soviet Split????
"Do you see why I didn't hand you control over the mainland on a silver platter back then? Now, you can take it yourself and the people will thank you for it!"
- USA to Taiwan after Soviet!China crashes
Balanced, as all things should be.
Awesome as always!
that thumbnail is perfection
-1 million social credit points
I really liked this video!
I’d say if this were to happen, the end would look probably like southern China is reunited with taiwan, Tibet becomes independent, then Manchuria and Turkistan become under Soviet influence
Why would Tibet become independent out of all those other regions? Manchuria and Xinjiang have even more Chinese people.
Love the use of rage comics
W comment
There was another idea Kennedy was in secret talks with the Soviets about that would have had a huge effect on history. A joint mission to the moon. That would have been interesting to see.
Do a *"What if Ros Perot won the Election"* scenario next pls.
i will love to see the videos in this what if,
15:57 "America wouldn't support American military action into the Middle East or Asia." :D
Iraq: **happy Baghdad noises** 🥳
@@normanclatcher war voided hooray
I like the Starwars Music in the background
The picture at 14:05 has funny lighting with little shadows
Another nice question: What if the French invasion of the Netherlands in 1795 never happened ? How would the Republic have developed further ? Would it still have collapsed ?
I've been forgetting to watch this for half a year
I'm surprised that the USSR didn't try to enlarge Mongolia with inner Mongolia.
I also expect Western Europe would feel less secure for the USSR controlling China. In practically I'd figure it's possible that the USSR might need to focus more of its military in China to keep control. Let alone any potential money wasted by the USSR to try to industrialize China. I'm wondering if USSR goes broke sooner if they push to try to develop China alone.
USSR might just end up collapsing early… India would get its claims back, Tibet is released. China and India become natural economic partners, with similar economic sizes and demographics or maybe even political system.
Meanwhile Russia due to collapsing early and USA being more distant to Europe might end up joining the EU. Now USA has to compete with an EU which contains literally all of Europe and now larger that of USA in terms of economic size and is much more self sufficient. The Euro becomes the alternate global currency, US dollar is weakened. Meanwhile China and India basically just grows slowly like current timeline while ASEAN is slightly richer.
Now Europe(led by France, germany and UK) and USA compete in influence in Africa while Asian alliance between India China and ASEAN emerge as the third block gradually.
Conclusion: Europe benefits in economy and stability, Asia benefits in terms of stability but not economy, Africa gets to play both sides (Europe and North America), and gains economically, Latin America continues being Latin America, North America loses economically due to USD sharing global currency status with the Euro.
Inner Mongolia is not Mongolian. Also that would then instantly alienate their puppet.
LOL. As if China allow the USSR enlarge Mongolia with Inner Mongolia 🤣🤣
China is not a puppet state like Eastern Europe so they won't tolarate the USSR rule over them.
@@chickenperson7568 Yes it is its called inner Mongolia for a reason
[EDIT] Nope, the POD for that scenario is just after WW II in the late 40's.
I'll have to go look at the scenario again, but how do you think that this scenario would be incorporated with the fan scenario of the two Chinas a few months prior to this?
Me and the boys following Possible Hostory into battle against the CZcams algorithm:
Beautiful thumbnail
the thunbnail is legendary
Yay you used my thumbnail suggestion
Kinda had to, don't have anything else to use and am still at work
But also its kinda my usual style and its my usual format, so I love it
Very interesting
Did you remove your "what if the soviets invaded china" video? I can't find it anymore...
It would hilarious and tremendously disaster for China if this happen in real event
Not only that I doubt the Russian Ukrainian war would happen because Russia only allies right now is Belarus in China which is enough but with this China what have a hatred of Russia and be too weak to do anything worthwhile
That's why I just hope it never happens
@@vallikescrackers-28it didn’t happened because they couldn’t make it happen. So it won’t happen.
what if kennedy saw that china started atomic testing and in a speech he just said "bruh 💀 lmao:"
To add to this video, the EU if it still exists in this universe would become more of a trade rival to the USA much like it was in our time line before Russia chose to be Russia and before China started to put people into camps. The EU would still be an ally to the USA but relations would be more thin.
This would probably be the greatest troll in all of history
Sounds pretty good ngl
The rise of China was in many ways demographical and not political. Resources, people, agriculture and industry converged. If China was not isolated and was a Soviet-aligned state, of course, COMECON would rise. For the control of Chinese economy, OGAS would be not abandoned and would be fully developed. Overall it will be very interesting scenario.
The soviet union was always reluctant when it came to exporting their industry to warsaw pact members while NATO was more than happy to do so. That is the biggest difference between the two and would eventually lead to China not being developed properly since the Warsaw pacts other members didn't have the capital and the soviets didn't want to invest. Additionally there's no way the Soviets would allow nato investment in China as they've also always blocked that when it came to other warsaw pact members so that's not possible either. In short, no, China would not have the same rise.
for several thousands years, China keeps rising again and again after each fall, when most other great empires fall definitely,
of course it is not just because fo the demography, but China has a great strategy, so even when they are weak.and divided, they managed to return the situation in their favor, defeat their adversary by wisdom than by force,
@@Emilechen So their constant rise is not becasue they've always historically had the largest populations and along with india the largest economy?
@@shaaravguha3760 China has largest population because they are able to reunify the core province of China again and again,
if theses province remain independant, these Chinese provinces are not much populated than the European with same size,
many empire in History are big because they conquer outside territory, but unbale to unify the core lands of their civilizations,
such as Russia has Siberia but unable to reunify East Slavic peoples, Russia can't even build a free trade zone in East Europe,
Germany loses Prussia, Greece loses Constantinpole,
Arba world remain divided, Indian situation is better, but it loses definitely Indus core land, thi region even become Muslim Pakistan, adversary of Hindu civilization,
Inner Mongolia has much morr population than Mongolia Republic but theu lose it,
Chinese core lands such as Shaanxi, Henan, Hebei, Jiangsu...
even theu are political divided, they have never been culturally, ethnically or religiously divided, they can be conquered by force outside,
but once these Chinese cores lands are free, they will be reunited again and again,
but China strength comes from unification, not really from conquest,
@@Emilechen That's complete bs... China has the largest population because they have the most fertile farmland out of any civilisation. (even today they have the most while south asia has the richest farmland which you can see in their populations)
Good channel
This is some Command & Conquer shit right here! 😄
Though I wonder whether it is more of a Generals or a Red Alert.
This would be a good setting for a RTS game tbh.
Mao might not be a great leader but he was definitely a great military strategist, he manage to fight off both infiltration forces from Taiwan/US and the Soviets during the poorest time in China's history. That is why Mao's military strategy books are still important and can be found in many international military schools. Rebel fighter using Mao's strategies in gorrila warfare are since called Maoist rebels/fighters.
Is the background music from Predator?
at what point in history did the global reaction to conquering a country just because you can switch from pride and glory for the conqueror to public outrage and shock?
always wanted to ask a history nut 🥴
I think it has partially if not entirely to do with religion and patriotism. For religious types, look at places the middle east and how they still are very proud of their religion, and see it as something that ensures their victory.. And for patriotism/love of your empire, you have things like manifest destiny or mandate of heaven, where you tell enough people "this is ok bc it's our destiny" and they believe it. People nowadays imo are way smarter and can see through nonsense and aren't willing to throw their life away for some dying old man in a chair that wants to be immortalized in history books in the name of 'conquest' or 'destiny'
One struggle moment
Wait, can someone please give me a link or something on 0:05?
the troll face fits so well
Ok that’s would be funny and cool but sad at the same time
I wonder if they were planning something similar when they found out sweden were capable of creating its own nuclear weapons, in the late 1950's.
It's crazy to see Canada in 6th place of anything involving the military considering our current position.
alternate title general grevous and count dooku vs jedi guard
I believe you missed an important point of the indian and Pakistani nuclear programs. If this did happen, it would create a precedent of intervention that may stop their programs hence leading to conflict.
If this had happened, red alert would be very different
Now another question is, would Britain still hand over Hong Kong back and would Portugal still do the same for Macau?
Looks like the boys Didn’t had enough fun in Afghanistan and Vietnam yet
the ultimate trolling strategy
As a Mandarin, I would rather see Republic of China return to the mainland rather than being trolled by two big superpower.
as trump once said "we do a little trolling, its called a little trolling."
Most bad in our history we had comming to us from the West, not from China. Actually we snapped Manchuria from China, but they 'repayed' back by alligning with the Americans and helped to crush the USSR economically, so we are even with the Chinese now and should be natural friends.
The Americans on the other hand have 30+ years of repairing of relations with Russia ahead of them and even that would probably never put them back to the 1990's level of trust that we had toward them.
The worst thing is that this almost happened
ALGORITHM LETS GOOOOO
If they won, one of them may betray each other because they aren't really friends
you dont need friendship when both sides have nukes
If this happened do you think it would make North Korea less likely to create their own nuclear weapons
The preferable timeline
Definitely better timeline
Better for who? The west? Not for the Chinese..so stop being selfish.
Soviet Manpower with American Production and logistics is crazy to think about
Interesting
Honestly this timeline is preferable to our own as it shortens the Cold War by expending a ton of resources both materially and politically by the Soviets. Finally creates a winnable solution to Vietnam which completely changes American politics both home and abroad. Last but not least a joint venture would further diplomatic relations between the two super powers if agreements were kept until the eventual fall of the USSR. Nuclear disarmament would happen more than in our timeline with a Sino-Soviet split as the Chinese wouldn’t be a threat. North Korea would still be a pit of misery however if the Soviets won decisively in China, Kim Il Sung might behave more in line with Moscow or even Moscow might be emboldened to replace him as need be by a less autocratic ruler more in step with Khrushchev. Africa and Latin America may still wild cards though with better diplomatic relations and not wanting to risk antagonizing the US, the Cuba missile crisis most likely doesn’t happen as Moscow doesn’t send missiles to Cuba though there still is a request by the Soviets to prevent the US from invading Cuba ever. In the end, I think most of or all of the world is better off in this alternate timeline.
-100000000000000 social credit
8:41 DF HAPPENED TO SALVADOR-
Fun fact in the late 1960s the USSR under Brezhnev approached the US with the proposal that they launched a pre-emptive nuclear strike to wipe China off the face of the map (the USSR was fighting an undeclared border war with China at the time and was on the brink of all out war with them).
This time the Americans were uninterested and chose instead to establish diplomatic relations with China.
Infinite manpower vs eternal supply of manpower vs overpowered Air Force and navy.
We do a little bit of trolling
The Soviet the US alliance does have the advantage of saying to the entire earth: “What are you going to do about it?”
Suez, 1956
What if the Cold War was 3 way (WWII ends in a stalemate)
Where's the Link to "What if the Soviet Union Invaded China"?
What if Lenin lived longer? Maybe up to 1935?
So he would have had to never had those strokes then
Since Taiwan and other countries in southeast Asia are safe but also a good effect of ours.
What happens to Hong Kong? Does Taiwan get it or do they stay British?
It would stay in British hands because China would be too weak to reinforce Britain Steel and it would be very likely that with China's position Great Britain with just make Hong Kong a part of the United Kingdom proper or making an overseas territory
@@thermslusitania1151 finally a good ending for Hong Kong
@@Hatsuzunot really? A thief trying to be a hero? Come on. Who taught you that kind of thing? Western education? lol
I've always thought we'd have a better time with china taking over russia than the opposite since china at least seems to be more business oriented like us and could have a deal made. idk just an idea like if we gave them taiwan they'd HAVE to take over not just russia but the middle east as well but let us take north korea. Anyone have any other ideas just spell it out I'm wondering what other ways you think it should go.
No that would be a terrible idea
Just a bit of trolling
YOU NUKED MANCHURIA!?!?
@@danieldubrovin8813Nuh uh
@@imjustbryce6235 TF YOU MEAN NUH UH?!
Hi!
8:11 i love that Iraq just has its own color for ghits and siggles 😂
What if muhammad ali was successful in his war against the ottomans? Pls do this one I love u
13:47
Where Moldova
but it was soviets not usa who wanted to preemptively crush chinese nuclear programe