🔥IS THE FOSI V3 MONO BLOCK GOOD?!?!?
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- čas přidán 27. 04. 2024
- Just a real take on yet ANOTHER ultra-budget CLASS D amp from FOSI
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Just a real take on yet ANOTHER ultra-budget CLASS D amp from FOSI
THE WORLDS ONLY NON-PROFIT CHARITY REVIEWER!!
100% OF PROCEEDS GO TO YOUTH MUSICAL PROGRAMS
OVER $8,000 DONATED TO CHARITY 🔥😍💪
FOSI V3 MONO -
fosiaudio.com/pages/monoblock...
#bestdac #bestamplifier #hifi
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Great vid. I love that you raise the discussion to think about your whole system before jumping in on something that may or may not be worth it.
Something we often dont discuss as a community! Thank you for watching brother.. :)
Feeding these amps with a MiniDSP Flex 2X4 is a great option balanced. Gives you Dirac, biamp & crossover, and balanced throughput for a great price.
Very cool!! 🤩
Just upgraded my 2X4HD to a Flex with that very purpose in mind.
Great vid. I have the smsl dl200 pre/headphone/dac with balanced output.
Good option! Thank you :)
I bought a pair with the 2 gan psus. Curious how it will compare to the SMSL VMV A1 10W+10W Class A amp. Cheap enough to give it a try! I have my SMSL VMV D1 since 2019 and I am using a Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive pre-amp balanced in with 2 balanced outs. Works fine!
Sweet
These interest me because of the balanced input. I can hook these up to my rca pre amp as well as my digital mixer. Heck could even connect it through a Dante adapter. Looking forward to testing these, though I have a difficult load for them. Acoustat x... 😂
Keep us posted.
@@abxaudiophiles will do
Nice! Humble wage earners appreciate the budget reviews!
I got you Boo... HA.. :)
Much love!
Very very Honest review!!!
Thank you. 👍
There actually are a few very well reviewed dacs - thinking SMSL - Fiio - Topping - that are $200-300, with balanced outs, a decent preamp output stage and remote. If I were getting started, would be a super fun way to go with these insane little dudes👍🏼
Good feedback. :)
I paired v3 (first one) with smsl sanskrit 10th mkiii dac. It has remote and built in preamp. I am not impressed. Aleph 3 Class a clone surpasses that easily.
Thanks James
Back at ya buddy.
Cool amps for a secondary stereo. Fosi may take my money when their hypex model releases..
Heck yes.
The SMSL M300SE DAC has balanced out and so does the Zen DAC from ifi .
The SMSL is $130 and ifi is under $200
Nice!! 👍🏼 Great info.
As an experiment I'll be using a NAD M10 as a front end to a pair of the V3 mono. The NAD M10 is nCore powered with about the same amount of grunt, I'm curious to see if there is any difference worth writing home about. The Fosi deal includes a pair of Muse02 op amps. I may even go there and change them as well at some point.
I also wonder if anyone is really contemplating replacing their zillion dollar big macs with a pair of the V3. I strongly suspect that its a good option at its price point for a whole range of non golden eared applications and maybe even a competitor for Purifi based amplification at about a third of the price. Have you an opinion on that hypothesis?
I think you are correct... Or at least I hope so. :)
Hi I got on to kickstarter and ordered this. But then I got me thinking. I have a Denon x3800 AVR and a 7.1.4 setup so need a amp to run all channels. I was thinking that the Fosi mono blocks could power my fronts better then the Denon. I have JBL 4349 fronts. Is that a good option for me? Will the fosi´s be better then my Denon AVR? Thanks!
Maybe a slight improvement from having a bit extra power and noise floor on hand, but my assumption is it won’t be a huge leap. Keep us posted. Maybe a bit more dynamic overall.
Wonder if you're running midfi speakers with biamp ability you could run these on bass duty and leave the rest to your main amps?
I’d say bi amping and using these words n bass drivers would be cool to mess around with.
man I totally agree with you.
@@pyntzer Nice!! 👌. I try my best
I just ordered 2 of these from Kickstarter! How long did it take to get delivered?
We get them before release to review, I am not sure when they will drop the Kickstarter and deliver. Seems to vary.. :)
@@abxaudiophiles Oh ok. This is the first time I've ever ordered from kickstarter so I'm new lol. When I first saw the "HK$" prices listed I was like wait wtf lol
Totally!! It can be confusing for sure!!
They are multiplying like locusts! I am wondering If you noticed any signficant noise floor or other strange noises coming from these amplifiers? Other reviewers thought the one power supply was a bad idea, somewhat defeated the purpose of Monoblocks & alot of them experienced a variety of noises from subtle to obnoxious. One said when he contacted Fosi, they told him they were going to 'fix' the issue. I guess they have come a long way, I bought one of their amps in this price range about 3 years ago. I used it maybe 4 or 5 times & one channel made a snapping sound & died. Also, smelled Ozone. I returned it to Amazon & said no more inexpensice Chi Fi!
No notable noises here other than the standard cheap Class D glare and grit on the top end, as I have mentioned in most of my reviews of these products. But yeah, to really get the full monoblock scenario, one would need two power supplies. We just raffle oll these off in our discord when were done, good times and helps raise money for charity. Cheers and thank you for commenting. :)
The pre-amp that folks could use to take advantage of the V3 mono's XLR inputs: the Schiit Magnius (yes, a headphone amp, but it works well as a pre-amp). As for DACs with XLR, there are a ton out there right now, but maybe the best (though it lacks I2S input, which stinks) is the SMLS D6-s. It is $199, but I'm not sure you really need anything better -- unless you need I2S, which means you are then spending a lot more on say a SMSL D300 or something. Based on ASR's review of the V3 mono, I don't think these small amps will be the problem in your system's chain. I suspect the limitations on resolution, soundstage, and other will be found in your DAC, your preamp, your streamer, and your speakers.
Nice. 👍🏼
try the DOUK T8 pro as a tube pre-amp for $129 , very nice with balanced and rca
That DOUK H7 pro bests all these amps. I'll check out the pre amp. Thx.
I can vouch. I'm running it with some 12AX7 tubes. Currently it's got a stackable 5% and 10% promo/coupons available.
2 amps and 2 power supplies means more cables, then a pre/dac.
Or just get a Loxjie-a40 and be done? 🤔
Lots of cool options.. :)
Well done James. Pro's and con's.
Thank you! :)
I think the Eversolo streamer/dac/pre is the perfect partner for these. I'm not hearing the 'grain' you mention on these, I've had this in direct comparison with my Naim Nait XS2/Flatcap XS and the Fosi monos retain all the punch and tonal depth BUT with more detail and a much wider soundstage than the Naims which cost £2700. It's a no-brainer.
Guess I know not to buy the Naim….
A Lot of DACs have XLR almost all the CHI-FI units good review
Thank you. I think SMSL has a decent one. Not sure if these amps are resolving enough to share the slight benefit of Balanced, but hey, can't blame em for trying.
Amp Resolving = op amps, right?
SMSL D100Pro has 2 DAC chips (1 for each channel) and balanced inputs. Also has remote and volume knob.
My leading choice ATM, but have until June before the monos ship.
@@mattmiller4978The Opportunity with this is Amp putting a decent capacitor bank after the power supply 2 Mono block can be fixed for $100
I am mainly hearing talk about money, cost, budget, cheap vs expensive and so on... nothing more than one could read on the Kickstarter page.
I never had a class D amp and have no experience with op amps. But I still bought into the Kickstarter campaign to see what it is all about. They will be challenging an Atoll IN300 which I love. Let's see, not much ventured.
They will come nowhere near the IN300 in actual sound quality. But they are fun.
Aune s9c pro works very well with the za3's
@@davidbennett3098 nice
Nice review, but you make it sound like they only have balanced outputs. You make no mention of the RCA single ended option they have for output……there are tons of budget preamp options out there. 🔊🔊
I mentioned the RCA outs in both the preview and when running through the connections. The main and only real difference here is the XLR from the previous amps, so I did focus on that a bit more. End of the day, it's the same amp as before, so save your money. :)
will this enhance overall sonics with LRS?
Elaborate
@@abxaudiophiles there are pros/cons with pairings. Wondering if this + LRS will make a good synergy overall. At the least, based on many reviews, these monos can capably drive low impedance speakers like LRS
You can imagine being in that meeting, let’s make some class D mono blocks with balanced inputs. Why? Well because I over ordered on the balanced XLR’s. Yes but are there any pre amps to match these monos, I don’t know. That’s it then let’s make it.
Totally. 😜👊🏼
Lets face it ... Fosi (et al) have no plan. They're responding to customer feedback and giving people what they want... including the incredibly stupid move of removing variable gain controls, preventing level balancing and volume limiting in true monoblock systems.
I would happily trade that balanced input for a rear panel volume control!
@@Douglas_Blake_579 - Not to mention that they are literally changing almost nothing in components, network, and build. It is literally the same amp each time in a different box with different connectors. My take away from this review is - If you have any of these cheap class D amps already, save your money. You wont be getting better sound here. :)
@@abxaudiophiles
Agreed. They're still working off of the Texas Instruments development module for the TPA3255. I've done deep _deep_ dives into a few of these and in a couple of cases I found worthwhile upgrades and applied them with good success.
To be fair, the TPA3255 properly implemented is a amazing amplifier chip. Seriously; I have a couple of pro-audio boards here that use them and the sound quality is to die for! But both have beefy output coils, massive heat sinks and far better pre-amp drivers than these Chi-Amps. AND... yes, you actually can pull 300 watts per channel off of them.
One area where the home owner can DIY some improvement in these little amps is by swapping out the Op-Amps in the pre-amplifier sections. The standard NE5532 chips cost about $0.50 each and are less than ideal in this application. Among other things they are the most often faked chip on the market right now. Simply swapping them out for RC4558 chips (also a $0.50 part) often makes a notable difference. But beyond that initial swap, chip flipping does next to nothing, despite what you may hear. Putting 3 or 4 $70.00 op-amps into a $100.00 amplifier just doesn't make sense, on any level.
Don't get me wrong... I like these little amps. I use a modified A07 in my main system and I've sold "sound bar killer" systems (mini-amp, dac, speakers) to a few friends and their friends for their TV setups and they work a treat.
It's maybe a good amp, but doesn't worth its price.
Buying a TPA3255 amp with $140 is insane. TPA3255 module only worth $15. Then the case worths over $100?
What so called PFFB is just a few caps and resistors suggested in the TI datasheet.
And yet thousands sell... Crazy... :) People love em..
lots of things, SML headphone DAC for example if you want to use it and it is only $180 ish
Good call. 📞
@@abxaudiophiles sorry I meant SMSL, the D200 for example , one of which we have in the small room and use as a preamp ( funnily enough it has a headphone out! Sadly lots of the smaller class D amps don't).
@@ggproductions7078 - All good my friend. I knew what you meant. 👌👌
FWIW ... PFFB == Post Filter FeedBack ... what it does is to take a sample of the actual speaker voltage and feed it back into the input stage as a means to correct distortion and amplitude errors. Yes, when done correctly it works well enough ... but it is hardly the game changer everyone wants it to be.
Personal opinion ... Aiyima A07 (original version), still king of the hill. Recent production runs have included a steady stream of improvements, too.
Well said! :)
Also, it appears they are just rinse and repeat on the basic structure and parts of the amp here. I have ALL of these budget amps and the sound and performance between them is more similar than different. Nothing I have auditioned in the last year has been a worthwhile jump from the original V3 or Aiyima A07.... Just save your money folks. Basically the same performance and sound in a different box.
@@abxaudiophiles
To be fair, there have been some improvements. But they are incremental and often tiny changes. PFFB is a good thing, but it's not the Audio Gods descending from the sky that some have made it out to be.
These Chip-Amps are essentially a chip in a box and without egregious engineering errors they are naturally going to come off sounding alike. We should be surprised if they didn't.
One worthwhile feature none of these chi-amp companies have implemented is the TPA3255's warning signals. The chip natively supports both clipping and protection indicators but the amplifiers do not. I'm thinking there would be a lot of really happy tweeters out there if these companies were to add them... but with dozens of versions, nobody has done it.
Best bet... if you have a TPA3255 based amplifier, keep it. The changes in new versions won't make huge differences. If you are shopping for a new one, give priority to features... cause they actually do all sound about the same.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 - Perfect! Well said sir. :)
Why balanced out?
It is balanced in...
And the use of balanced in is when having the mono block amp near the speaker, and your preamp and sources at a distance more than a few meters (I need 5 m to right side and 8 meter to left mono block amp) then you prefer feeding it over that longer distance via a balanced signal path.
As these sounds better than its prize suggest some will pair it with more expensive gear, and then balanced also makes sense, making it more versatile.
Yea. Just misspoke. XLR inputs of course on the amp. I find no reason for balanced on these types of amps and gear. The lack of resolution in them would negate any benefit from balanced, at least in my mind.
Cheers. 👌😊👍
Does it over heat like my fosi v3
Not as bad as the original did with the 48v. But she still gets warm
@@abxaudiophiles I put a fan on it to keep it cool,I guess I'll go back to the original power brick and see if it helps,your thoughts on crown amps
@@gage4375 - Crown amps are FAR superior.. I run the 2502 currently
Mine came with 2 48v 5 amp power blocks.
It is an option I believe... ;)
Now you only need a diy pair of the b&w Nautilus 😂
PERFECT PAIRING!!! HA.... :)
Funny, I saw a set of diy on reddit yesterday.
What a funny guy. Which source can give balanced input to the fosi mono v3? Such a thing has to be expensive! You just need a usb dac with balanced out. Rasp pi with moode audio and you even have parametric equalisation. Expesive? No!
Yeah, you are right. There are a few options out there. But really, with the lack of resolution and detail in these ultra-budget amps and their inherent diffusion and glare in the upper mids and treble, the benefits of a fully balanced system will, for the most part, not even be noticed or appreciated. It is just funny to see the ultra budget products putting XLR in there. But hey, at least they listen to their consumer base and do as they ask. :) Props there! And these little amps to rock that's for sure.
Topping pre90
Nice 👍🏼
They are better than my ultra HIGHEND amplifier in class AB for 12000 euros.
Wow, that is not a good look for your $12K amp, cus I have $500 class AB amps that better the FOSI amps. Which amp are you referring to for 12K?
@@abxaudiophiles I'd be interested to know which $500 class AB amps are you referring to.
@@abxaudiophiles What 500$ amp? For example, Atoll IN200 can't compete with pair of za3 + sparkos 3602 & burson v7 pro opamps. IN200 loses almost at everything - level of detail, dynamics, soundstage & separation between instruments. But it has a bit more weight in bass, but compared to Fosi, it's muddy.
@@RomanBagdasarov 🤣
I actually have the Atoll SDA 200 in house and it literally destroys every FOSI, DOUK, RSL, Aiyima amp or product I have ever had in house. All these cheap class D amps have a grit and glare in the upper mids and treble that shines like a beacon on an actual resolving system. If you have a cheaper system or less resolving speakers you may not even notice. The bass is tight and clean on these cheap amps, but lack actual texture and detail by the handfuls. These cheap class D amps have a decent soundstage, but the space and dimensions in the sound stage are collapsed. Very sterile sounding and performing when compared to something like the SDA200. I mean my old Yamaha A-S301 betters these cheap class D amps and pretty handedly. Sorry man, your claim doesn't align with Kelly and my actual side by side comparison. This FOSI is identical to all of them basically, same caps, resistors, network, amp chip, etc... Just a repeat in a new case. :) Cheers and thank you for watching and commenting, it really helps out charity. :)
I thought the Eversolo A6 or A8 can be used a pre amp as I thought they have volume control and have XLR out. I haven't owned Eversolo products and would have to review model numbers to be 100% certain.
You’re correct. 👍🏼
Nice little amps, but they're not true monoblocks as they share a power supply.
Agreed! Although you can just get two separate power supplies. But that is more money. :)
You have a choice of power supplies on the kick starter. Go with 2 - 5A supplies.
@@Gilligansrevenge - Always nice to have options. :)
Or 2 x 10 amps 😮. More money 😂 look at your gear!
@@mattmiller4978
I would strongly recommend that you not take the automatic route of _maximum voltage maximum current_ here.
These little amps are very poorly cooled. Push them hard for any length of time and they will go into an over-temperature panic. The TPA3255 chip is fully protected and will shut down with the 48 volt supply.
The far better bet for these is 2 V3M amps and 2 36 volt 5 amp supplies. The whole thing will run cooler and will not go into protection while still delivering the full sound quality. There is a very slight loss in SPL, about 2db, but it's unlikely you would ever notice that in day to day use.
Okay ... a couple of last points ...
1) Power supplies.
Everyone wants the 48 volt supplies... it's the "more power" thing talking a bit too loudly.
The TPA3255 chip will work nicely on 48 volts... with a much better cooling solution than these fully enclosed cases can provide. After lots of bench testing on these mini-amps I've reached the conclusion that the best compromise between heat, power and longevity is going to come from a 36 volt supply rated for 5 or 6 amps. These are commonly available brick style supplies that you can get economically from just about any online vendor.
At 36 volts you will reliably get about 75 watts RMS per channel on 8 ohms or 140 on 4 ohms with very low distortion. The whole thing will run only slightly warm and you won't be troubled by the power supply going into overcurrent panics or the amplifier triggering into protection.
So for the V3Mono setup I suggest 2 x 36 volt 5 amp supplies, one for each amplifier.
Fosi has an option for 32 volt supplies which should also be suitable for most home uses. There you would get about 50 watts on 8 ohms and 100 on 4.
2) Op-Amps
Up front... I'm no fan of the NE5532 chips most of these designs use as the default.
First of all the NE5532 is one of the most counterfeited chips on the market right now, supply chains are heavily polluted with them. Now, why someone would fake a $0.50 part is beyond me but it is a real issue.
What I do, pretty much every time, is replace the socketed NE5532s with RC4558 chips, which are also a $0.50 part. At least then I know I won't have an amplifier failing because of fake parts.
But, beyond that initial swap, there is almost no advantage whatsoever in putting in expensive and exotic parts. I've been unable to find any differences in performance or behaviour with bench testing and, despite reports to the contrary, I've never heard any sonic improvement either.
Putting a hand full of $70.00 op-amps into a $100 amplifier just doesn't make sense on any level.
Well said. I am not swapping op amps in a $100 ultra budget amp. I am just pooling my money and buying something of actual sound quality and performance on the use market if possible. :)
@@abxaudiophiles
Thank you ... I try to bring common sense to this when I can.
As I said in another comment, I actually do like these little amps.
They are capable of amazing sound quality and deliver pretty decent performance ... they're definitely not your father's $100 amplifiers. I will stack these mini-amps up against most $2,000 amps any day. The A07 in my main system actually replaced a Marantz 6005.
The TPA3255 chip, itself is taken from the pro-audio world where it is used extensively in powered monitors and sound reinforcement. But thanks to high demand and mass production the chip itself can be ordered for less than $7.00 in production quantities.
In fact, the low price of these mini-amps is dominantly the result of mass production, low parts counts, cheap labour and no "audiophile" markup. It's not about poor sound quality or flimsy construction.
The old saw of "big speakers need big amplifiers" is no longer true. My A07 runs a pair of Pioneer towers to ear shattering volume with ease.
These are not bad amplifiers when setup and operated within their specs. They do, however, get a bad rap from audiophiles who have far more money invested in their current systems.
Progress happens ... we need to keep up.
'fake' XLR's rather than balanced surely.
Probably?
No, Fosi says they are truly balanced and I doubt they are telling fibs. Whether that conifers any advantage in the absence of long cable runs is up for debate
Re. PFFP. It makes the amplifier much less load dependant, improving frequency response with a wide range of speakers. It's present in much more expensive designs from people like Bruno Putzeys. So it's not new tech, but is new at this price.
I plan on trying mine with my £6000 Allnic Audio 300b amp as a preamp to reduce that Class D glare. We will see how it goes. If it doesn't work well I have a P3.
@@jimfarrell4635 Check out the Orchard Audio GaN amp!! Zero glare and gritty top end and doesn’t fall apart at high volumes like these cheapies do. Some of the best amplification I’ve heard across ALL CLASSES of amps. 👌👌👌
@@abxaudiophiles I'm very tempted. The Fosi are just a bit of fun, to see what you can get with a relatively ( in hifi terms) small amount of money. I think folks starting off these days can get a great little system cheaper than ever before. Fosi deserve a lot of credit for democratising hifi, as well as for listening to the hifi community. I have multiple Class A and AB, valve and solid state mid to high end amps plus a bunch of Sansui and Marantz vintage gear, but the one thing I lack, and have not so far heard, is a high quality Class D. Orchard Audio or a Purifi Eigentakt will certainly be on the list if I take the plunge, but I'm looking forward to see what the Fosi can do in the context an otherwise decent system.