Targaryen Prophecy: Visenya had the Dream, Not Aegon | ASOIAF & HOTD Theory
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
- 🔍 *Video: Decoding the Targaryen Prophecy: Unraveling the Threads of Fate* 🔍
~~ Chapters ~~
00:00 - Intro
00:34 - Understanding the Prophecy
05:31 - Dragon Dream & Madness
10:22 - Women Dreamers
14:55 - Visenya Targaryen
19:57 - Why Visenya Dreamed the Prophecy
25:40 - Maegor's Knowledge of the Prophecy
34:19 - Translation Errors
37:29 - Outro
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ASoIaF book series, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon HBO, The World of Ice and Fire, The Hedge Knight Novels, Fire & Blood
TheDisputedLands Baelor Video: [Watch Here]( • ASOIAF THEORY-- Targar... )
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🎨 *Thumbnail Art* 🎨
HBO's House of the Dragon: Visenya Targaryen, Aegon I Targaryen, and Rhaenys Targaryen by Amok
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HBO's Histories & Lore
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House of the Dragon, HOTD, House of the Dragon HBO, theory, house Targaryen, house of the dragon theories, ASOIAF, A Song of Ice and Fire, asoiaf theories, prophecy, Helaena Targaryen, Aegon Targaryen, Targaryen Prophecy, dreams, prophecies, dream, spiders, prince that was promised, azor ahai, Viserys Targaryen - Zábava
⬇I FORGOT TO MENTION THESE⬇
1. Another reason she was so fixated so much is the fact that she wanted a full Valyrian child too. Even if the dream was hers or not (but seeing this whole mess it was hers 99%), she might have wanted not only a person with the right parent but being a full-blooded Valyrian and with 2 dragon rider parents. And if the idea of Aenys not being from 2 Targaryens was in her mind, she could have become obsessed. And that would also explain why she wouldn’t want to have a child with another person but with her brother.
2. I think that Tyanna did some Mirri shit for keeping Maegor alive and Visenya gave her blood, but this is a whole different can of worms that deserves a video.
See ya and thanks for watching and for the 2k subs!!!!
Behind every powerful man is a women and her name is visenya
And it wasn't the Targaryens that were mad...it's that the Targaryen MEN were mad. I hadn't realized that.
@@I_report_scammers_spammers yeah but Westeros puts the actions of the few on the whole family
Still waiting on proof that Visenya was the original source of Aegons dream.
You put to words what I have thought for a while: The women have equal or more powerful position in Martin's stories. But it's hidden under the male focused narrative. Visenja especially seems to me to be the power, while Aegon was just a male face.
Even with very competent leaders, like Jaehaerys, Alissane played a huge role.
@@CompanyOfTheCatexactly !
just like lyanna is the one manipulating rhaegar and not the other way around
@@CompanyOfTheCator the queen of thorns also when viserys Dany brother was pleading for his life notice how Khal drogo looked to Dany before he passed the sentence
Yes!
I always thought it was interesting that Visenya was so fiercely Aegon’s champion - she protected him, established the Kingsguard and championed everything he did in an attempt to unite the Seven Kingdoms. Why? Aegon apparently didn’t like her very much but she was very loyal - if it was her vision, she was clever enough to realise that the Seven Kingdoms would never follow her - but they would follow Aegon. And she pushed him to unite the kingdoms under his rule.
This is actually gold.
Also it is said that "Visenya and Rhaenys took great joy in arranging marriages between different kingdoms in Westeros". So even this crucial part of knitting one kingdom together was not done by Aegon.
would explain Maegor's behavior if it was his mom who had the dream. after all she was the extra magical one.
His behaviour doesnt make sense if it was Visenya who had the dream cause the Prophecy would not make sense, since it's not her blood who survives. And it would have made Maegor more likely to try and marry all her female nieces from Aenys line once he began to realized he couldnt conceive in an attempt to produce the line that would produce the Prince that was promised (He would begin to understand the prince would come from Aenys line, which was more fertile).
Anyone who hasn’t realised Aegon ‘the Conqueror’ is actually just Rhaenys and Visenya in a trench coat have not been paying attention.
Now I picture Rhaenys and Visenya one atop the other in a trench coat and I cannot stop laughing.
I love how Visenya and Rhaenyra, two women who have been compared to each other and called monsters for the things they caused/created (Maegor/Dance of Dragons) tried to settle the issue first by marrying their heirs to the opossing ones and, yeah it wouldn’t be ideal cause they're family and because of the age gaps, but it would ultimately be the better option, and were then told a big fat no. They tried to end it without bloodshed but nope, they were denyed and now we call them bad?
And I like the idea of Maegor knowing seeing all the things he did, like adding to the castle etc. He reminds me of Rhaegar who after learning about the prophecy went and became a worrior. I also like the thought of Aenys knowing and being scared and doubting his ability to be the rpince that was promised. Maybe that's why he gave Magor the sword and why he tried to be civil and a good brother to him. He wanted yo have him close to either tell him what to do, or to send Maegor do it. He saw it as Viserys and Daemon. One ruled and the other did the dirty work. Aenys would have probably preferred to have him become king, but hat wasn't possible so he setteld for the next best thing.
Aenys & Maegor had a similar dynamic as Viserys & Daemon.
You are by far the best asoiaf youtuber at explaining prophecies and dreams.
I highly recommend this channel in every group I can find, I absolutely love her.
I think that Aenys and Maegor ruling together could have been a pretty good ruler.
On our coins and other US symbolism the eagle (North American Bald Eagle) has a claw full of arrows meaning defense, strength, security, and the other claw holds an olive branch for peace, negotiation, commerce. Both.
I always love this idea of the Targs being obsessed and somewhat controlled by their prophecies. and as for the madness, is always strange that if the Targ is cruel, he/she is MAD. while those obsessed with prophecies to the point of people dying (like Aegon V), they get a pass. haha
ps: another great vid.
Summerhal. Just that, this is the comment
They are not called cruel because they are mad, they are called cruel because maesters have a political agenda. Same as today for example a news outlet would overlook or excuse certain behavior of one politician, while chastising and mocking an opposing politician for the exact same behavior. Look at Jaehaerys. He was a bad husband and he enjoyed cruelty, he sentenced a knight who had an affair with his daughter to brutal torture to force him into a combat so he himself can cut him to pieces while his daughter was forced to watch. This was described as a great thing by the maesters.
I do have a theory that Maegor "the cruel" is based on Czech (Bohemian) duke Boleslaus "the cruel", the brother and supposed killer of Wenceslaus (known as "good king Wenceslaus" in Anglo-Saxon countries, the one from the christmas carol). Wenceslaus is known in the catholic church as an important martyr and Martin was raised as a catholic, he also loves history. From the legend written by the church we learn Wenceslaus was good, kind and honest leader great diplomat and beloved by all, while Boleslaus was cruel, bloodthirsty warmonger. Meanwhile if we look at actual history, we find out Wenceslaus was weak, a pupped in the hands of others and disaster in making. Boleslaus, on the other hand, was a strong, decisive and extremely powerful ruler who fought and won against much stronger opponents and secured several hundreds of years of his family on the throne.
Because Wenceslaus obeyed the bishop, he was described as a great man by the catholic church, while Boleslaus, who opposed the bishop was described as "mentally unhinged and dangerous". Czech language has a term for such person: "Magor".
Who is called cruel by the maesters and septons is purely a matter of their relationship to the citadel and the faith.
I've been following your work for quite some time. With the relatively anemic state of the theory-crafting community these days, I really appreciate that you're still keeping up the work of the best content creators I've enjoyed over the years. You provide critical analysis from a unique perspective, unafraid of questioning *everything* and when you come to a novel conclusion, such as the Squishers being a misunderstanding of a plausible proto-Ironborn raiding party with body modifications and soggy boots I think it's hard to argue that this doesn't logically track. It may not be likely that many of these things are to be explored in what future text we may get, they're often what I *wish* we'd get. The mark of my all-time favorite analysts and theorists!
This is to say nothing of your authentic, direct, and unique presentation style that I really enjoy. Please keep the random Greek rants with sub-titles going as they're such a great expression and distillation of your style and passion as a creator, and never fail to make me smile. I don't think I'm alone in that either. It's nice to see moments of genuine human reality in the content I watch.
TL;DR: You bring something special to the community that no one else can, and I really appreciate it. Congratulations on the 2K milestone. I look forward to the next, and the next and so on. The fan theory community is enriched by your contributions and you stand out in all the best ways. Thank you for all your hard work, and the commitment to being authentic. Truly, amazing work that I can't help but get excited to see pop up on my feed! Εβίβα!
I like this idea and it's the first time I've heard of it. I also think it is fitting seeing that the first Targaryens were equals but after that, the men were always above and the women served only as birthing machines. To me it is obvious that the women have the dreams and the ability to translate them because of some predisposition or because they don't have the ego of a man, they are able to see things men cannot. The men in the story who have dragon dreams can never explain them correctly and they ultimately kill them or drive them insane. They have taken up this whole thing that they are the most important and that they will save the world probably because they have these dreams and this belief of theirs is destroying them. It is a mirror of today's world.
Look at Jaehaerys. He and Alysanne worked together, but he was a horrible father to their daughters, even though I consider him a great king. They are all talking about the greatness of Daenys the Dreamer and of Visenya, but they don't treat women equally, or trust their gut feelings and vision. I imagine Viserys knew about Helaena's dreams, maybe he out of all people could have guessed this was the reason she cried a lot as a baby and when he heard her he could see in the chaos something resbling his own dreams. But his pain and disgust about prophetic dreams after Aemma died probably made him deaf, as well as the influence from Alicent and his own worsening health.
“They see bizarre shit that affects their sanity”😂 You are so eloquent, and then every once in a while, you toss in a sentence like that and it cracks me up. I just found your channel and it’s full of incredible content! I love this video concept so far and haven’t seen many other people discussing this theory specifically, but I’ve always been fascinated by how much more driven/borderline obsessed with lineage and succession that Visenya seemed than both of her siblings combined, and have wondered where that intensity came from, beyond personal interest. This explains some of that.
Every video you create has me insanely curious to watch. Very engaging content!!!
I'm glad I found this channel. Awesome video! Thank you!
The prophecies in GRRM's stories, seem more like curses, the way ancient Greek stories tell them: You are always better off in not hearing the prophecies at all.
Yeap and also are very tricky to write them correctly and so far I like them so much in ASOIAF! Fantasy writers tend to put prophecies and similar stuff very often and many time are...mieh.
With regard to visenya their dragons where untested by them while Aegon had already use his to destroy a fleet. It would make sense for them to gain experienced as soon as possible but with weaker enemies before going into large scale battle.
χαῖρε! CotC Viseny vidya.....JOY! I love the swap of "Dragon"/"blood" for "Prince". It really does make the Prophecy much more interesting and complex, and GRRM wouldn't mention the reproduction properties for no reason either. Being the only Vals in Westeros would also make them want to have as "pure" a Targ kid as possible, and #ImpotentAegon!?!?!? makes so much sense. "Conjuring up" an evil, magical, incest-Targ baby, rather than just letting Nature take its course and have have a regular, normal incest-Targ baby reminds me of Mordred too. The impotent Father having an impotent Son is great symbolism in a Patrilineal world where we hear so much about "muh Seed". Of course, this now adds a whole new layer of meaning to the "Dragon Seeds" considering any sort of Targ blood/DNA/"Seed" might work be it from the Mother or Father.
Having Maegor know about the Prophecy would also serve as "justification", in his own mind, for any amount of cruelty. "I'm a cute Targ baby and my Mama told me I'm special, so I can do what I want!"
Yeah the incest is much in the bloodline who basically anyone is their blood, but poeple were "It's my blood", but in the end among the red and the blood GRRM "It's OUR blood"
Karl, you are one of my islands in the Streams, and I am sure you really were a cute Snark baby and very special!
I think the main story and all the others is full of hints that children might be like their mammas OR their pappas, and that this society thinks it is about Dads only - that, and marriage, with the whole "bastard blood" nonsense in parallel to the whole "noble" or "royal" or even just family line aka "muh seed", with the severe emphasis on control of female sexuality and reproduction, cruel Nature decreeing that "Mamma's Baby.- Papa? Maybe." is the law.
Which is how Jon is able to be hidden as Ned's bastard. He looks like Mom, while also being a dream pestered son of his real Dad, while still warging into Ghost, Starkishly, perhaps with the help of his distant Targ relative Bloodraven.
Of course the whole impotent king (or infertile king, really,) archetype (the Fisher King) should be healed by the magic of the feminine principle, with no evil magic needed, (the Cauldron, the Grail), -- but our author is interested in turning archetypes into characters who show the human heart in conflict with itself.
Another dream that became true but not in the way a targ wanted was the one Daemon II had about an EGG hatching. So its true that almost every time a male Targaryen has a profetic dream and thinks that it's about themselves, it's not.
Yeah many of them had dreams and were sure was the case. Even if they were not going insane bc of these, Summerhal happened sooo...
I think it's important to note that the other times we've seen stillbirths like Maegor's, one was confirmed to have been sabotage (Mirri Maz Dur) and the others were in situations where sabotage was likely (Hightower plotting, Aerys II's kids stopped dying when he took extreme poisoning precautions). Someone was probably killing Maegor's kids.
I also observed that Alysanne wanted her daughter Daenerys to be the heir to the iron throne and this also leads me to believe tbat she may have had dragon dreams of a Daenerys as Queen Regnant in the future but was quickly dismissed by Jaehaerys.
In general, the whole thing with Alysanne Jaehaerys and the succession is weird, you are right!
I’ve always been under the impression that Visenya was the real mastermind and driving force behind the conquest. We see in multiple instances that Targaryen women can be born with prescient qualities and the ability to see the future.
If Maegor believed he was the “chosen” one it also makes sense that he waited to claim a dragon until Balerion was available. Of course if you’re going to be leading such a high stakes battle to save humanity, you’d want to have the biggest, baddest dragon bonded to you.
Personally I prefer to think that it was Rhaenys who was the dreamer.
It has long been my headcanon that the dagger on which they revealed the prophecy was inscribed was Rhaenys's sidearm. I think all three siblings deserved to have a Valyrian Steel weapon, but Rhaenys was not a warrior like Visenya and Aegon and would not be suited to wield a sword like Darksister or Blackfyre.
It might explain some things if Rhaenys has the dagger on her when her dragon was shot down, and/or if she lingered in a dream like state muttering prophecies before she died. The Martells would have been aware of the prophecy when they gave the dagger back and sued for peace, perhaps swearing to stand with Aegon during the Long Night even if not swearing fealty to him.
I like to think that Rhaenys was the only one who didn't care about the dream and it wasn't hers, but she single handily saved the line like a queen 💅🏻
@@CompanyOfTheCat I'm thinking the most interesting option might be if Rhaenys was a dreamer who never believed her own dreams and did not worry about trying to fulfill or avert anything. We've had dreamers who obsessed about dreams and ruined their lives, non-dreamers who were obsessed with being dreamers or interpreting prophecy, and non-dreamers who dismissed all sorts of prophecy. It could be nice to invert things and have a prophetess who does not believe in prophecy, who just makes a lot of offhand comments that coincidentally foreshadow the future but who insists it was just a coincidence despite her siblings becoming increasingly obsessed with her powers. Maybe Aegon spent more nights with her not out of lust but because she talked in her sleep, and he wanted a chance to write notes about things she would not think worth mentioning when she woke up.
But it just wasn’t Rhaenys. She wasn’t even interested in these things. It’s not in her character anywhere.
Have we had any confirmation from GRRM that this was a prophecy passed down from Aegon that will be revealed in the books or are we just going off of HotD?
Did Rhaegar just happem to stumble across this prophecy and share it with Aemon or was it truly handed down through the Targ line over the centuries?
I hope we get more answers in Winds.
Ryan J. Condal himself said that the dream will come up in the books and it was GRRM who informed them and then they asked him if they could incorporate it into the series. As far as where Rhaeghar found it, we have several books that might we are not aware as well as the fact that from what I understand from the Dunk & Egg novels this is the time when the prophecy was lost, during Summerfal, bc there tried to hatch eggs and all brothers had dreams according to Maester Aemon.
If the prophecy was lost around DaE books, this would mean that Raenyra passed the prophecy on to her youngest son Aegon, , and we know how the poor lad felt towards dragons. Maybe the trauma was so deep, that he simply stoped caring about everything?
I cannot understand what exactly happened after the dance tbh, but during D&E it is stated they were aware and this was a big reason for Summerhal too, but who passed it to whom and what written stuff exist it's unclear to me not gonna lie.
No we dont. Specially not that Visenya is the dreamer but we do have Confirmation from the Show which worked with Martin and who said important relevant info would be released in House of the Dragon from the series, that it was Aegon who had the dream. My own speculation is that most likely the sisters united and convinced him they have to conquer westeros. It would be great if it was Aegon having the dream wakes up suddenly in bed besides Rhaenys and she would be the first one to know. She would tell Visenya and she would be the one that drives her siblings and convinced them they have to take Westeros. After Daenys the Dreamer they take dreams very seriously.
Aerion dying after drinking wildfire will always be a top 10 comedy moment😂
YES
Upload right after I finished a shift. 👌
OH! Hey guys, I just got it. I bet the Words of House Dayne are "With great Power Comes great Responsibility." :')
That would be such goofy but also great reference. I am down, George make it happen!
Weird that her prophecy didn't see her son dead on the throne.
???
Also rhaegar wanted three kids like aegon and his sisters, he had rhaenys and aegon with elia martel and the third ( would have been visenya) is jon snow who is a likely candidate for the prince who was promised. Who as well could not know about the profecy refering to him since he doesn't know he is a targarien.
Also there is only one visenya in all the targaryen family tree
@5:16 in the song of ice and fire liana is the ice and raeghar the fire
Visenya is a qt.
I believe Aegon was the dreamer
He liked to build things like the painted table and the iron throne
He was tormented by visions and created stuff to hopefully counter it
Sidenote: I love your accent 💜
Why thank you kind sir
Maegor and Aenys are a classic case of a Quixote vs a Hamlet: the latter thinking without doing, the former doing without thinking
Aenys was barely thinking too, but I don't care bc I am biased and I like the guy 😂
I disagree maegor was definitely thinking before acting his thoughts just weren't morally good thoughts.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 You tell me that a guy who was in a coma for almost a day was thinking...
@@thatoneblackdude3333 The thing is Maegor did some stuff that was pretty necessary, same as Visenya. Personally, depending on the event, I find myself understanding why they did what they did. Not in every circumstance, but in some instances, especially in those where the faith was involved, I can.
@@theduxabides9274 he was in a coma much lover then that and yea actually he wouldn't have much else to do ?
I think Rhaenys had the dream, I also think the dagger was hers, in lieu of a VS sword
Maybe Targaryan madness is caused by not being able to understand their visions. They see these visions and assume they are always about themselves, when it could actually be about a descendant.
A culture change and loss of information, would absolutely change how people view the symbols they are seeing, and could make them quite frightening.
Like when you give a wild animal a tranquilizer, they don’t understand what’s happening to them or why. They might understand that the human did something to them. And they will absolutely be frightened. Are they just falling asleep or are they dying?
I accidentally drugged myself, used a cold medicine that interacted with my meds. Took a bit of an investigation to figure that out. And let me tell you, there’s a level of tired you can get to that makes you frightened to actually go to sleep. You know you shouldn’t be this tired, and you have no idea why. Is it not a cold? Am I going to be hospitalized? Terrifying.
I imagine being bombarded by half familiar symbols would be equally upsetting. And going through it on a nightly basis? No wonder they went mad.
Yes, we really do not know what exactly they are watching and the info about visions that can make you go mad exist (Qarth, Mazes in Leng etc.). Some of the shit we have seen through Dany and Bran aren't that fun and poor Patch is still unstable and can see the future.
@@CompanyOfTheCatCthulhu is the one sending visions
I really hate this " targaryen madness" agenda it goes completely against Gourges writing for a certain group of people being inherently a certain way , it's a really gross message in beliving someone's birth of bloodline defines them especially when it isn't true out of the thousands of years of history only a handful of them could be considered" mad " and we don't know what the reason was it's not like this trait is exclusive to them spacificly when multiple characters have been considered mad and weren't accoceated with targaryens, it's a dumb narrative created by the show which over played the idea using a quote taken out of context .
@@thatoneblackdude3333
Targaryan madness was part of the books too. Even Ser Barristan gave Dany a look over before officially joining her cause.
And even the ones that weren’t ‘mad’ were still of questionable mental health. I love Baelor the Blessed, but even he was very strange compared to other lords.
And if what I posted is even half right, it’s a perfectly reasonable explanation for it.
@@ratgirl34 no it isn't the line comes from a conversation berristen had with jeharyes 2 and it was largely about the unpredictability of kings and fudulism and how it's a flip of a coin wether it will work out Or not , not about some inherit trait targaryens have , berristen looked over dany to make sure she didn't inherit her father's madness not" targaryen madness" as a whole .
Not all targaryens have Dragon dreams and prophetic visions and the ones who didn't weren't crazy maekars oldest son had them and he wasn't crazy just a depressed , baelor was the way he was because he was a religious fanatic ( and probably the snake poison) .
Ελληνικο καναλι! Επιτέλους!!!
Μολις γινουμε 20 το γυρναω και σε ελληνικα βιντεο :Ρ
Μακάρι το κανάλι σου να μεγαλώσει και άλλο!!!!
Maybe im a little bit biased because Visenya and Maegor are my favourite characters, but I fully believe this. Also the history books and maesters 1000% made up a bunch of shit to slander maegor more, probably the shit about killing animals as a child and being infertile and all that. The marriage to ceryse was also 100000% a setup and they knew she was barren
Well of course a dragon could be a mother or a father.
i think aenys also had dreams or read in a book about the white walkers or children of the forest that fighting in tirbes of men would be a sign of white walkers. if you read it say children of forest use men's numbers against them. so in fighting would hurt men. not be able to trust each other is big problem. that maybe the one reason kin slaying is big deal. it was to try to stop the in fighting. if you look one of the biggest rivalaries is blackwood and bracken. blackwoods have the biggest weirwood, dead but biggest. i think that in fighting of men would be sign that white walkers have return. look robert had years and years of peace. then he died, then in fighting, kinslayer and more started. including the north joining in the fighting. the north rarely joins in any of the fighting. they only join to try to fight against aegon, they surrender. they join in dance of dragons. that it. they don't join in any of the fighting of blackfrye rebellions. only other fighting they join in is war of nine penny kings.
Yet another lesson about those damnably vague symbolism and annoyingly flexible prophecies!
Which will bite you in the privates.
I need to say tho, that I hate this concept of someone having a dream. Or to be more specific, i hate how specific the dream was and that they named it The Song of Ice and Fire and that they even wrote it one a Valyrian blade. Why?
I don't know if it is because of the show, or because of how cringy it sounds, but couldn't they present it in another way?😂
I feel it is because they make them out to be so specific and they are dramatic AF and come up with these names of their own, bc I doubt the dream had the line "The Song Of Ice & Fire" lmao 😂
Baelor was scared of this prediction, which is why he remained a virgin.
I kinda think Baelor wanted to be the prince that was promised, tbh. He tried to be good, loved, and devout, he also tried to hatch his egg. If the prophecy is real and he is the last, then he must be the prince. Idk, to me he looks like he literally thought he was Jesus.
IDK if Jon will show the full extent of the Stark blood magic but what I really want to see its:
He helping save the world not because of his Targaryen blood but from his education from need.
Kinda like the values an honor he learned from Ned its what allows him to help bonus points if his Targaryen blood its in fact a detriment for him (jon possesed by the others theory fanboy here).
We are two! I really don't think his Targaryen Bloodline matters that much, the fact that he is most likely Rharghar's matters only because he and Daenerys have family left and they are not alone something that both characters really long and wish for, but magic-wise /lore-wise he is a stark through and through, even in visions we see him as a wolf or a blue rose, his Targaryen blood in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter.
So it really should be visenya the conqueror and aegon the conciliator
Naw agon was the dreamer and John snow is the prince that was promised
But lady, the profecy says "From my blood" that means Visenya is NOT the one with the dreams, it would be Rhaenys because it's her blood that survives. It would made more sense that it would be Aegon because it would be doubted if the profecy is fullfilled by Aenys or Maegor line leading to the succession crisis. Visenya seeing the weak state of Aenys saw the prince must come from a strong Targ, and insisted on having Maegor king. Maegor wanted to have a sucesor to prove it was HIS line the one that would bring the prince, and became mad when he realized it would not be the case. But If this was the case he would most likely have actively married just Targaryen women to unite the bloodline and fathered the line from which the prince will come from in an attempt to be him who at least fathered said line.
Your assumption is that Aenys was a bastard which is pretty unlikely and if Maegor was the only true son, he died childless so the prophecy would not have been fulfilled... if Aenys is a bastard and is Rhaenys who had the dream, then it makes much more sense because it keeps being "her blood".
It would also make sense why the males always thought to be dragons if they were expecting a prince and not a princess (when they didnt realized it was genderless in the profecy). But males also have dreams, we see in Dunk and Egg a male character that has them so it's very likely Aegon had this dream. Maybe males have just one big vague dream and females have many, more realistic dreams. Helaena is a dragon dreamer just on the show though. Oh and It was Rhaenys who said the words while Visenya crowned him.
????? I don't think you understood what I said in the video or you didn't finish it.
I said that Visenya was the one with the dream bc it says from my blood, and she translated as my kid, as many many other Targaryens, and thus was so fixated on making Maegor the king and before that on having a kid with Aegon. And Maegor himself was so fixated on having kids to the point of obsession.
In retrospect though it doesn't matter whose kids were, since all three siblings had the same blood lol. As far as one of the three was one of the parents it's still the same blood since all conquerors had exactly the same parents, grandparents, and so on. Aenys easily could have been a bastard and it wouldn't change a thing since both Rhaenys and the other two have identical blood.
I am guessing you didn't finish the video or you were skipping parts, if not the case I would like to know if my choice of words in the last part (the error crept in from the translation) and in some other parts too tbh, was not correct or was confusing bc, of course, others didn't agree and that is 100% valid and ok, but everyone understood my theory. In any case thanks for watching.
Aegon's infertility never made any sense to me. We know he only had two lovers and the books state that he never had mistresses. So, Aegon only had sex with Rhaenys and Visenya. Rhaenys however was rumored to have multiple lovers but she only had a child with valyrian features. Visenya only had Maegor (with some "magical" help) at an advanced age. In the story Targaryen men never had an issue with having children. In fact many of them had multiple bastards. It was the Targaryen women who were dealing with infertility and miscarriages all the time. I think it makes more sense if the problem was with the sisters and not with him. Many in the fan base think it's Aegon's fault because the World of Ice and Fire claims so but since the novel is written by unreliable narrators with in-universe biases we can be suspicious about it and think using the information we are given.
This isn't the case tho.
Infertility is very prevalent when BOTH parties are Targaryen. From all the Targaryen women we have stillborns came when Targaryen men were involved ( Edit: minus Dany of course, bc a lot of stuff happened there) , when the men were Velaryons, Baratheons, Hightowers, Strong (there are other houses that most likely I don't remember), we have quite a lot of kids actually.
Maegor was 100% the problem, Daemon too had difficulties both with Laena and with Rhaenyra and Rhanyra before Daemon never had problems. Aerys had I don't even know how many lovers but still not kids (he was trying for a third son for years and Rhaela had many stillbirths and since he didn't have bastards it was most likely him), etc etc. Aegon as long as Rhaenys was alive didn't sleep with Visenya that much from what we learn, and Rhaenys didn't have many lovers, there was a rumor for only one very specific musician from Lys. And not all Targaryen men who were sleeping around had kids, Aerys was one but there were also others too, Valarr with Kiera for example had many stillborn sons and she wasn't even Westerosi. So....
@@CompanyOfTheCat Let's take the other examples. Viserys had no problems having children with Alicent but he did have problems with Aemma. Rhaenyra had a miscarriage, so did Laena. Rhaella had multiple miscarriages between Rhaegar and Viserys and she died giving birth to Daenerys (I think that whatever baby she gave birth was a stillbirth and Daenerys is actually the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna but that's a different discussion). The mother of Viserys and Daemon died because of complications when having birth to her third child. Aemma's mother died in childbirth as well and she was married to an Arryn. Another of Jaehaerys' daughters died of complications when giving birth. (She had gotten pregnant by a bard I think) Then there's all the dragonseeds of the Targaryens during the Dance and the very productive Aegon IV so Targaryen men had their own share of bastards. From what we've seen it seems that Targaryen women seem to suffer from pregnacy complications very often. As for Aegon's infertility, given how the sources are in-universe maesters I can just call it bullshit. It reminds me of real life documentaries where some historian (usually British) makes a wild claim about a historical figure without any evidence beyond the very circumstancial and they leave it in.
With the exception of Gael, which we do not know the story for sure btw (they said it was stillborn and killed herself but we do not know 100%) all the others have Targaryen men involved, so as I said before it is obvious that when BOTH parties are Targaryen a lot of problems start.
Rhaena had six kids with Garmund, Baela had also a Daughter and no stillbirth, and Rhaenyra the only problem she had was with Daemon and not with Harwin, if Aerys had bastards we would know most likely and we also have women with bastards as well Elaena had 7 kids some bastards and some other legal. Daenerys (Aegon's IV) had also many kids in Dorne. When both parents have dragon-blood things just do not work. We have three Targaryen in this instance and the one kid that was conceived naturally for sure was by the one person with a rumored lover, so yeah Aegon wasn't Aegon the IV or Robert.
@@CompanyOfTheCat You get the point with the British historian, don't you? The World of Ice and Fire has multiple cases where the Targaryens are getting belittled and presented in a negative light. The ones that are protected are the Targaryens who had a good relationship with the Faith and the Citadel. Maegor is the biggest example of getting character assassinated despite being a much more nuanced case. Meanwhile, Baelor the "Blessed" is never called crazy. We know he was. It's obvious he was but since he was such a gift for the Faith he is treated with kid gloves. The rumor about Rhaenys' lover is sketchy as hell. Just the complications of the thing are enough. A dynasty that relies on inbreeding to maintain control and breed their living weapons of mass destruction doesn't survive for three centuries if it's undermined so early. I think Martin simply realized he has most characters having children as teenagers so he needed to make an excuse as to why Aegon and his sisters had so few children and so late.
Yeah, I get the point of the maesters and as I said in the video is obvious they change things. The thing is if Aerys had bastards we would know from actual characters in the story most likely, maesters aside since many of the people in the current storyline knew him. Also, Maesters do not call Maegor mad, only cruel but we can see that the guy was not ok. In the World book though, they do point out that people around Baelor considered him unstable and said that his mind was not ok, and in the wiki (where people from the official citadel site are involved), they list Baelor on the Mad Targaryen category just fine. Maegor on the other side is not mentioned as mad in any of the publications and he was a very despised person by the Maesters and the Faith and he was certainly not fine.
So, yes maesters change history and have extreme anti-magic and in some instances anti-Targaryen stances, but the fact that Aegon couldn't have kids with any of his wives easily isn't something we need to look into that hard, since they actually are very forgiving towards him, they never say anything about him and his fertility, but when we are given these statistics, I am sorry I am gonna go with the most possible choice, which is him since there were difficulties with both of his wives.