Problem with AP Kog support compared to Brand/Zyra is the fact that Kog has no hard CC, so the "Base line" of his potential is really low. Secondly, both Zyra and Brand have damage which is not really dodgable, if they press all of their buttons they will deal damage, Kog Maw will not. Thirdly and finally, both Zyra and Brand greatly synergize with Rylai, which provides ton of CC, while some lousy slow on Kog's R would matter little, so their CC only grows as the game goes on, while his stays at 0. Fourthly and lastly, they can both deal damage after death, and while ironically Kog has death passive, it's way too easy to actually run from it, while it's impossible to run from Zyra's plants or Brand's passive once they're on you.
I mean, AP Kog was actually viable and even OP at multiple times in league history, but time and time again Riot nerfs the shit out of it because I guess they consider his gameplay loop unhealthy. Let's face it, AP Kog clearing whole wave with E+R effectively not laning is low key obnoxious, and an AP Kog with 3 items (including Rylai) could 100 to 0 you with 3-4 R shots. Granted, the player has to hit all of them AND you can just dash/flash out of any of them, so it's not like it doesn't have counterplay, but few times AP Kog was good on mid I remember everyone viciously complaining about it. @@chiipan8401
Remember guys LS said during this game that Caitlyn is giga broken. This is why you dont listen to people who are only good at theory crafting. This should have been a 3-0 if they didnt troll the botlane
LS is probably thinking around the idea of "Zone Control" with Cait's traps, the idea being that Cait with Traps maxed out and some Ability Haste is somehow able to create areas of "impassable terrain" and bait people into stepping on them to allow teammates to engage on them and pick fights around that. I objectively doubt he means because Cait damage potential and laning is strong enough to warrant picking her over any other ADC at the moment. I have to believe his theorycraft is around her being a second support for her team, which is sensible and not the main damage dealer, which is absurd.
@@MakoShiruba Its an engage meta with bruiser top and scaling mid/bot. Supports that are good with caitlin/lucian/kog/twitch are really bad in the current meta. Also i love how he started doing costreaming with other players so he can show us that people hard rebuke some of him points.
It's effective damage vs ineffective damage though. When Kai'Sa goes in, you die. Meanwhile, Caitlyn is just standing there pea shooting tanks for 3 hours.
@@animagamer2 >IMO< ziggs is the master of ineffective dmg, i hate having him on my team and he's a freekill on enemy team. needs babysitting 24/7 and all his dmg is actually avoidable. i don't get this pick man. (btw yeah, i know he takes turrets, i can read what his passive and W does, i just think that he then proceeds to do nothing with that gold, unless you babysit him to the base i guess. i can NOT imagine dying to him and going "this champs is so op man", it's always "nah, but i'm just blind af". the only champ you can say "just DODGE" and be right
@@thatguy5233 Yeah, I see where you're coming form. He's so easy to kill that in soloq you often get the Ziggs on your team that just stands 50 miles back does nothing. Even if they do hit the target, it's usually impossible for you or them to follow up. That being said, I think he's pretty cool if you're able to coordinate a bit more. Basically, Ziggs is all about zone control. He does a ton of damage if you get close enough for his tanks to CC you so he can confirm his damage, but he also outranges you so if you don't threaten him he's going to widdle you down eventually. When he works, he really puts the enemy team in a catch 22, but like you said it requires a lot of investment. Constant baby sitting the whole game. But that's actually why he makes an amazing ADC. Seriously, if you haven't played some Ziggs duos down bot then you don't know what you're missing. It's fun from both sides, as the Ziggs you just feel like a King raining hell down on the enemy whilst being protected by your pawns and as the support it's a more rewarding game of "Protect the VIP" than playing with most hyper carries because his damage is actually depends on you, he can't just auto them down so you feel like an actual team. It's super fun, but you gotta get good at Ziggs first. On the plus side, once you do it's also unironically OP. Go look at Ziggs bot winrates in the hands of experienced players, you'll be surprised.
@@animagamer2 those are fair points, but i calling his dmg "big" is definitely an overstatement and i'm sure you know it too lol. yeah, according to stats, k'sante is "fair" even in high elo and we all have seen how "fair" he is in every tournament ;) but sure, ziggs is not a bad champ i guess, but i still stand by my words, absolute master of ineffective dmg:)
Meteos saying an adc who builds damage only should not oneshot people but a offtank mage with different defensive options like zhonyas should is such a bad take. Sounds really biased since he hates the role.
Half the time I think Meteos is joking and just being entertaining. He will also complain about how everyone has a dash and there is too much movement.
Also DL saying smth about the game in full confidence while beeing completly wrong 70 percent of the time starts to get increasingly more jarring to listen to. Bro played the game for 14 years cmon
He’s really not the brightest, I remember back like 8 years qtpie would hear his takes and just laugh like he’s retarded. Man also takes shit people say to him at face value, some of the shit he’s talked about Steve saying is wild, like Steve legit lying to his face and he repeats it as fact
I kind of don't get the criticism of Cait. She did way more damage then the Kaisa. I get in the late game team fights she didn't contribute as much but that seems partly due to execution and not champ. Also even if she was slightly worse to totally focus your draft around it doesn't seem to compensate for it. I think they lost game 3 for other reasons.
Someone mentioned in an article mentioned comment affective damage. I am assuming they are talking about how Caitlyn mostly shot the tanks and alistar. Which doesn’t matter cause a) alistar healed that crap right off and b) she didn’t actually kill any tanks. Kaisa though can do the same thing as her, and dive. Plus they are comparing Cait to most champs and if you picked Cait why not pick someone else is their point.
Cait only did "more damage" cuz she has range to auto and hit tanks since level 1. Non of her damage is meaningful tho. In a team fight where the damage actually matters she's barely damaging them, look at each team fight and tell me she's useful.
Game 3 it did 40k to kaisa's 26.7k, but it's easy to look past that when you have 3 dudes saying how bad she is and how much nothing she's doing for 30 minutes
This is such a bronze take man there is a difference between dmg dealt and relevant damage dealt. You watch every fight where cait is free hitting a tank yes she will have a > amount of dmg dealt than Kai sa but kaisa is actually doing dmg that wins you a team fight by actually doing dmg to priority targets.
@@Mo_Bhasin "bronze take" when its a little more damage, but 50% more total damage is way more than just "free hitting a tank". Cait and PSG misplayed the late team fights, it wasn't simply that Cait was a bad pick. Scaling and Mid diff seemed way more relevant to the result. Not to mention J4 and Gnar are very difficult to contribute late team fights compared to what Moakai and Olaf were doing.
@@ieatstheinternet if you ever look at post game numbers, pay attention to your toplaner who went 0/10 in 15 minutes, he'll probably have the highest damage numbers, because he was permanently hitting enemy champs (and dying), that doesn't mean it was useful damage, in this case, cait was tickling (mostly) alistar's balls every teamfight, because she can't really walk past the tanks to hit the proper targets, while kaisa, when the time is right, has the ability to get onto the backline, so the mcroman guy isn't wrong. she is a bad champ, if you have LDR and IE and are still doing 300 crits on an olaf, at that point even jhin would be better
1:10 The funny thing is that Doublelift was doing those sorts of cheesy copycat OMG-face thumbnails for awhile himself. LS still does them where he's laughing like he's insane (oops, he is). But the worst is DOM , who had those idiotic chin-in-hand thumbnails like he was seriously pondering something, or the wildly over-the-top OMG face. You'd think big streamers would be confident enough to do their own thing (like Sneaky), but instead they end up copying every other idiot streamer like a bunch of sheep.
Its funny theyre talking about how bad Caitlyn was, but dont realize that shes a fuckn menace in Worlds patch and current patch with Lethality. Shit is fuckn nuts and busted, ult for 9/10th or instant kill an enemy before each teamfight lmfao
these NA frauds :D :D :D all the EU hate can they sub for GG cause they just cheesed them!? in game 2 GG had all the tools but showed in typical NA fashion how to not close out games! and btw how did the reverse sweep taste? :D
I swear doublelift has the worst takes out of any pro I’ve ever heard, and that’s consistently for like a decade plus. Don’t know if it’s because of the teams he’s been on or what. Bizzare looking back that qtpie was actually one of the smartest about the game he just had dogshit work ethic.
bro meteos has no idea what hes talking about when he talks about any other role but jg. but he just says the most wrong shit but doubles down on it being 100% right.
You think that is worse that DL? That guy has missed take after missed take. And then in other videos when he gets proven wrong he doubles down and explains why what happened was wrong, even tho it works out. Sneaky is the only normal take person here. But I think meteos is more reliably right then DL.
I'm 2 minutes in but already I have to say, not having Doublelift do the Pog Face for the thumbnail of this video is a huge missed opportunity.
"the problem with caitlyn morg is that you have caitlyn and morg as your two botlane champs, it's legit like two hotdogs" -Meatytoes
Is he trying to say that there's no buns in the bot lane?
I can't believe it never came up, everytime Doublelift says BDS it sounds like he's saying Meteos
I've been thinking the EXACT same thing for a minute. I'm glad someone said it haha
Around 1:19:12 meteos says it aswell he noticed it for sure
It did come up, maybe not in the video
34:25 "The problem with Caitlyn Morg is that.. You have Caitlyn Morg as your two botlane champs. It's like legit two hotdogs."
-Sun Tzu 'Meatytoes'
DL tries to not say LoL misinformation challenge 😱 (impossible)
The man is consistently wrong on half the things he says
What exactly did he say? Havent watched yet but I believe u
@@maertin33dw, they most likely mean things that are actually just opinions or can be argued for
Problem with AP Kog support compared to Brand/Zyra is the fact that Kog has no hard CC, so the "Base line" of his potential is really low. Secondly, both Zyra and Brand have damage which is not really dodgable, if they press all of their buttons they will deal damage, Kog Maw will not. Thirdly and finally, both Zyra and Brand greatly synergize with Rylai, which provides ton of CC, while some lousy slow on Kog's R would matter little, so their CC only grows as the game goes on, while his stays at 0. Fourthly and lastly, they can both deal damage after death, and while ironically Kog has death passive, it's way too easy to actually run from it, while it's impossible to run from Zyra's plants or Brand's passive once they're on you.
ap kog is unironically better mid, that lack of CC makes it so bad for support
I mean, AP Kog was actually viable and even OP at multiple times in league history, but time and time again Riot nerfs the shit out of it because I guess they consider his gameplay loop unhealthy. Let's face it, AP Kog clearing whole wave with E+R effectively not laning is low key obnoxious, and an AP Kog with 3 items (including Rylai) could 100 to 0 you with 3-4 R shots. Granted, the player has to hit all of them AND you can just dash/flash out of any of them, so it's not like it doesn't have counterplay, but few times AP Kog was good on mid I remember everyone viciously complaining about it. @@chiipan8401
I think you're missing the joke...
Meteos is trolling bro relax
@@asianinvasion706 Yeah, you're right, why even comment stupid shit like this? Everyone should just comment "weed haha XDDDDD"
editor /costreamers thank you for making professional lol enjoyable
26:21 lil boy wasnt having it today 🙉
There's a small coconut sound that plays when Shelly hits a tower. I love it.
The delay shows this video is well cooked, thanks for the delivery
Thought I was watching a different season when the AD matchup wasn't Kaisa Xayah every game
Also Kaisa with a 100% wr is hilarious, this champ is so balanced, I hope she is permaban by the end of Worlds
Guys I played Kog Support and it didn't go well
you crawled, so all the kog supp enthusiasts could run, o7
ive been waiting for this one
Missed opportunity to use pog faces for the thumbnail
Remember guys LS said during this game that Caitlyn is giga broken. This is why you dont listen to people who are only good at theory crafting. This should have been a 3-0 if they didnt troll the botlane
LS is probably thinking around the idea of "Zone Control" with Cait's traps, the idea being that Cait with Traps maxed out and some Ability Haste is somehow able to create areas of "impassable terrain" and bait people into stepping on them to allow teammates to engage on them and pick fights around that.
I objectively doubt he means because Cait damage potential and laning is strong enough to warrant picking her over any other ADC at the moment. I have to believe his theorycraft is around her being a second support for her team, which is sensible and not the main damage dealer, which is absurd.
@@MakoShiruba Its an engage meta with bruiser top and scaling mid/bot. Supports that are good with caitlin/lucian/kog/twitch are really bad in the current meta. Also i love how he started doing costreaming with other players so he can show us that people hard rebuke some of him points.
Going into Doublelifts youtube channel, literally like 30% of his videos are pog faces...
I counted like 8 pog faces
8:55 LMAOOO
hot box sessions would be a nice name for a podcast if Meaty toes and Sneakums decide to make one.
1:09:55 East Maple
my favorite podcast to listen to
Caitlyn did 10.5k more dmg than Hex tech buff Kaisa tho 😂
ezreal also does always high damage but not effective damage
It's effective damage vs ineffective damage though. When Kai'Sa goes in, you die. Meanwhile, Caitlyn is just standing there pea shooting tanks for 3 hours.
@@animagamer2 >IMO< ziggs is the master of ineffective dmg, i hate having him on my team and he's a freekill on enemy team. needs babysitting 24/7 and all his dmg is actually avoidable. i don't get this pick man. (btw yeah, i know he takes turrets, i can read what his passive and W does, i just think that he then proceeds to do nothing with that gold, unless you babysit him to the base i guess. i can NOT imagine dying to him and going "this champs is so op man", it's always "nah, but i'm just blind af". the only champ you can say "just DODGE" and be right
@@thatguy5233 Yeah, I see where you're coming form. He's so easy to kill that in soloq you often get the Ziggs on your team that just stands 50 miles back does nothing. Even if they do hit the target, it's usually impossible for you or them to follow up. That being said, I think he's pretty cool if you're able to coordinate a bit more. Basically, Ziggs is all about zone control. He does a ton of damage if you get close enough for his tanks to CC you so he can confirm his damage, but he also outranges you so if you don't threaten him he's going to widdle you down eventually. When he works, he really puts the enemy team in a catch 22, but like you said it requires a lot of investment. Constant baby sitting the whole game. But that's actually why he makes an amazing ADC. Seriously, if you haven't played some Ziggs duos down bot then you don't know what you're missing. It's fun from both sides, as the Ziggs you just feel like a King raining hell down on the enemy whilst being protected by your pawns and as the support it's a more rewarding game of "Protect the VIP" than playing with most hyper carries because his damage is actually depends on you, he can't just auto them down so you feel like an actual team. It's super fun, but you gotta get good at Ziggs first. On the plus side, once you do it's also unironically OP. Go look at Ziggs bot winrates in the hands of experienced players, you'll be surprised.
@@animagamer2 those are fair points, but i calling his dmg "big" is definitely an overstatement and i'm sure you know it too lol. yeah, according to stats, k'sante is "fair" even in high elo and we all have seen how "fair" he is in every tournament ;) but sure, ziggs is not a bad champ i guess, but i still stand by my words, absolute master of ineffective dmg:)
1:26:41 Sneaky PICKS a Winner! (He's usually more discreet about it but he's doing this all stream in various ways). 🤢🤧
Meteos saying an adc who builds damage only should not oneshot people but a offtank mage with different defensive options like zhonyas should is such a bad take. Sounds really biased since he hates the role.
Half the time I think Meteos is joking and just being entertaining. He will also complain about how everyone has a dash and there is too much movement.
44:01 1:04:32 cat crimes
Love that doublelift gives his definitely not wildcard region anslysis on Adcarry match up
Also DL saying smth about the game in full confidence while beeing completly wrong 70 percent of the time starts to get increasingly more jarring to listen to. Bro played the game for 14 years cmon
He’s really not the brightest, I remember back like 8 years qtpie would hear his takes and just laugh like he’s retarded. Man also takes shit people say to him at face value, some of the shit he’s talked about Steve saying is wild, like Steve legit lying to his face and he repeats it as fact
Highlight of the BO5: Cat diarrhea
very Pog, ty mr. editor
The fact that it took them 43 minutes to end game 5 is so sadge. They don't stand a chance against major regions
DL taking shots at Midbeast in the first 30 seconds
i thought of caedrel with his shitty soyjack thumbnails
and old dom videos LMFAO
Did Sneaky Bork Kennen vs Sion not come up
DL commenting on any adc being a choker is wild to me
12:35 berserker did not get better in NA. he just played significantly better than everyone else.
lmao I do the same thing as DL I can't handle the Pog thumbnails
20:24 akali has 2 kills. Then fast forward and akali has 7+2 kills. I think it would be better if the video doesn't skip like this.
We just ignore the fact cait did 14k more damage than Kaisa
Fake damage he was free hitting Alistar all game
can't believe BTS made it!!! hope we see them vs Faker for the ultimate fan showdown 😊😊😊😊
Please do swiss draw clippy!
DL spent so much time riding PSG XD
ARCANE BAAAAAAT
I kind of don't get the criticism of Cait. She did way more damage then the Kaisa. I get in the late game team fights she didn't contribute as much but that seems partly due to execution and not champ. Also even if she was slightly worse to totally focus your draft around it doesn't seem to compensate for it. I think they lost game 3 for other reasons.
Someone mentioned in an article mentioned comment affective damage. I am assuming they are talking about how Caitlyn mostly shot the tanks and alistar. Which doesn’t matter cause a) alistar healed that crap right off and b) she didn’t actually kill any tanks. Kaisa though can do the same thing as her, and dive. Plus they are comparing Cait to most champs and if you picked Cait why not pick someone else is their point.
Cait only did "more damage" cuz she has range to auto and hit tanks since level 1. Non of her damage is meaningful tho. In a team fight where the damage actually matters she's barely damaging them, look at each team fight and tell me she's useful.
Shaboing
I don't know why LS said caitlyn was the strongest AD on 13.20
Game 3 it did 40k to kaisa's 26.7k, but it's easy to look past that when you have 3 dudes saying how bad she is and how much nothing she's doing for 30 minutes
This is such a bronze take man there is a difference between dmg dealt and relevant damage dealt. You watch every fight where cait is free hitting a tank yes she will have a > amount of dmg dealt than Kai sa but kaisa is actually doing dmg that wins you a team fight by actually doing dmg to priority targets.
@@Mo_Bhasin "bronze take" when its a little more damage, but 50% more total damage is way more than just "free hitting a tank". Cait and PSG misplayed the late team fights, it wasn't simply that Cait was a bad pick. Scaling and Mid diff seemed way more relevant to the result. Not to mention J4 and Gnar are very difficult to contribute late team fights compared to what Moakai and Olaf were doing.
@@ieatstheinternet if you ever look at post game numbers, pay attention to your toplaner who went 0/10 in 15 minutes, he'll probably have the highest damage numbers, because he was permanently hitting enemy champs (and dying), that doesn't mean it was useful damage, in this case, cait was tickling (mostly) alistar's balls every teamfight, because she can't really walk past the tanks to hit the proper targets, while kaisa, when the time is right, has the ability to get onto the backline, so the mcroman guy isn't wrong. she is a bad champ, if you have LDR and IE and are still doing 300 crits on an olaf, at that point even jhin would be better
Missed opportunity to title this vid 'cat diarrhea'
1:10 The funny thing is that Doublelift was doing those sorts of cheesy copycat OMG-face thumbnails for awhile himself. LS still does them where he's laughing like he's insane (oops, he is). But the worst is DOM , who had those idiotic chin-in-hand thumbnails like he was seriously pondering something, or the wildly over-the-top OMG face. You'd think big streamers would be confident enough to do their own thing (like Sneaky), but instead they end up copying every other idiot streamer like a bunch of sheep.
Unsubscribing because doublelift said psg is a "soccer" team☠️
Its funny theyre talking about how bad Caitlyn was, but dont realize that shes a fuckn menace in Worlds patch and current patch with Lethality. Shit is fuckn nuts and busted, ult for 9/10th or instant kill an enemy before each teamfight lmfao
mmmmmm yes I might be the first one here 🐱
maybe so
Nuh uh
these NA frauds :D :D :D
all the EU hate can they sub for GG cause they just cheesed them!?
in game 2 GG had all the tools but showed in typical NA fashion how to not close out games!
and btw how did the reverse sweep taste? :D
I swear doublelift has the worst takes out of any pro I’ve ever heard, and that’s consistently for like a decade plus. Don’t know if it’s because of the teams he’s been on or what. Bizzare looking back that qtpie was actually one of the smartest about the game he just had dogshit work ethic.
Like the fact on game 5 he didn’t realise ali was tanking to get the wave to take longer to crash so they have levels and get mao more time to arrive.
First
Ahaha Caitlyn Bard troll but won worlds finals game 5
bro meteos has no idea what hes talking about when he talks about any other role but jg. but he just says the most wrong shit but doubles down on it being 100% right.
You think that is worse that DL? That guy has missed take after missed take. And then in other videos when he gets proven wrong he doubles down and explains why what happened was wrong, even tho it works out. Sneaky is the only normal take person here. But I think meteos is more reliably right then DL.
i cant stand dl somtimes jesus
I wish there was a way to mute Sneaky's audio. The screaming orgasm noises get so old so fast.