Pro Tour Guilds of Ravnica Finals
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2018
- Two players. One match. One trophy. Andrew Elenbogen of Cardboard Live and Luis Scott-Vargas face off in the finals of Pro Tour Guilds of Ravnica to see who will walk away with $50,000 and the title of Pro Tour champion.
Full Coverage: magic.wizards.com/en/events/c... - Hry
Man I just feel so bad for Lsv there mulling to 4 in the last match is just brutal, I imagine that Andrew was thinking "I wanted the win but not like this" with his head in his hands.
Honestly, these matchups just seemed like “whoever goes first wins.”
the state of standard these days. note more then half the decks in top 8 are white red aggro builds.
What a great Pro Tour. Thanks to all the commentators for making each game a waaay fun experience!
It's so fitting that Reid Duke is there to see the mulligan loss. #coincidence
i remember watching that live. thought the same thing
this was the worst way to lose. felt so bad watching this live. good job, andrew, though. you deserved it and won it fair and square.
I agree congrats to him but was not fair at all and not even fun to watch it was bad the whole issue with that is the mull to 4 it was such a terrible way to end a pro tour but it happens
Did he deserve it? Yes. Was it fair? Absolutely fucking not.
@@keithbagdon6888 I mean, it wasn't Andrew's fault that LSV had to mulligan, but it was super unfortunate that it went down the way it did. That's part of Magic, though. Nothing anyone can really do.
@@dr6ke Except they can....Rules are there to evolve the game, not devolve....
@@AdamIsailovic Adam Isailovic: We need new rules
WoTC: London mulligan
40:26 - "please give me something that I can keep" - No. He's saying - please give me some tissue because I'm a bit under the weather.
Great games, congrats to the both of them!, Loved watching it.
How come Andrew got a rocking chair and Luis didn't
Calvadier lmao
Andrew is on the ASD spectrum (according to Twitter.) It's probably a way to de-stress.
You know, I'm sure this is well intentioned, but imagine you're Andrew's mom and you're super excited for your son and come here to watch this video, and then literally the top comment is making fun of your son's disability.
give him some CBD oil and he will be straight
A fucking shame
Always love seeing Luis Scott-Vargas playing :D and to Andrew I have shakes in my head and I love playing don't let people discourage that movement :) it didn't bug me in the slightest c:
Ironically he’s using dimir sleeves
and LSV is wearing a Dimir Hoodie #DimirSpies
I have those sleeves as well. Too bad he wasn't playing dimir. Could have thought erasure those history of wins from his hand
I'm enjoying the content so far in this meta. But I would love better cameras for recording from the top view. Everything seems so blurry and I have to figure out what's being played.
They are playing the same cards. If you can't tell what's going on from a mirror match, you just need to learn to come prepare. Don't blame cameras because they can't possibly keep everything in view at the same time. Search for the cards, take notes, become better.
Portubed you seem to be hurting from something I said. When I talk about the potato quality. It's almost every match. Not just the top mirror match.
? All the cards are pretty visible. I started last year and even I can tell what they are, even the older versions. Personally, I don't see the issue.
I do dislike how they flash cards up on screen instead of showing us the players hands at some points. For example: Who wouldn't know what Benalish Marshal does when watching the grand finals?
Portubed Why are you defensive? he's right you know, it sucks as a begginer to open 10 tabs every game
It sucks as an experienced player too. I like watching 1080p so I can read the cards, not 480 masquerading as 720/1080. The font on the labels that the judges put on the Dauntless Bodyguard is the size that would need to be on the cards for the highest-quality video to have readable cards.
I don’t know what I expected from an aggro vs. aggro match. Player who went first won right up until the person on the play had to mull to 4. This match blew. Poor LSV.
LSV took a poor mulligan, it's a game of statistics. He's not poor LSV by any means.
thanks to low mana powercreep whoever goes first usually wins, blame wizards for messing up the balance of the game. they could restricted powerful cards like mythics to 1 per deck but instead they make an uncommon a savannah lions with added ability... sucks the life out of the game for those who want to play for more than 30 seconds a game or... enjoy playing.... if thats still a thing
For the longest time we had energy cancer, then black red midrange, then black green midrange. We finally have a decent pure aggro deck for the first time in a long time and now suddenly everyone is complaining about aggro? Stop bitching about everything yall
I have always complained about aggro thank you very much.
Yeah... It's quite unfortunate that standard has been plagued by this and you can only truly blame R&D. I had to quit playing at GPs / competitively as you get tired of spending money to attend knowing that you will be losing mostly to luck.. The simple fact that you lost the die roll and weren't on the play adds up over the course of a tournament.. You get that itch to play standard when you think it could be good again every 5-8 years and after you buy in/pick it up you soon remember why you quit.
At least with the rotation of Kaladesh and the introduction of dominaria + guilds we have other options to play for the first time.. albeit one could argue no guild is really all that much stronger than the others..
But let's not forget the recent standard history... meta has more or less been aggressively low-costed resilient aggro threats of some nature.. From top decking stormbreath dragon, Eldrazi winter, collected company, Mardu vehicles (copter scrapheap), B/G energy (the aggressive build), hazoret red, chainwhirler B/R aggro, and now we have Boros/white weenie..
The fundamental predicament is.. WOTC wants to make $$.. How do we get players to keep buying new cards? We have to power creep.. what else is there then to print bigger and better threats year after year? It's gotten to the point that top decking huge hasted threats with early low drop threats wins more often than not.. With a little luck (die roll), you can make it to the top.. assuming you dodge your bad match ups as well.
Lands in the sideboard, oh yeah!
Do basic land card also be affected by the standard rule or can you use any year?
Raise your hand if you are tired of seeing the same decks fight each other🖖
What? There are more decks in this standard format than there have been in a long time. This standard is healthy, fun, and diverse.
@@TylerIsbell1 only watched the top 8 of the last 3 pro tours and Guilds had 6/8 same deck and Dominaria had 7/8 red or red/black aggro. Ixalan actually had a pretty wide range of top 8 decks with only 2 of the same. I'll check out some of the non top 8 decks. I've enjoyed drafting Ravnica but I don't get excited seeing the exact same decks dueling in the finals. (Personal opinion) I just love seeing different playstyles and colors clashing in general.
@@searcey then watch modern
@NoC, top 8 dude, c'mon. Get real
Does one of the CFB guys take turns to have a spot at commentary each year? Last year it was LSV's turn and this year it's Reid Duke's?
wow so much skill involved in these finals
That final game (and the game of Duke vs. Shenhar at Worlds for that matter) is why I never take mtg tournaments too seriously. You will always have this element of luck that screws over even the most skilled players. Sure, Andrew is no doubt a great player, but there's also no doubt luck helped him that last game whether he needed it or not.
Very great games, Andrew and Luis
I remember watching MTG on ESPN 20 years ago lol...I still have the VHS i taped it on...The game has changed but is still the best game ever made
Huzzah the Meta has changed
Instead of mono red agro mirror is red-white agro mirror
Magic
the ammount of red white in the top 8 was more chance than anything else. it's a mixed pro tour (limited and constructed) so that adds an additional layer of variance, also beyond the top 8 there were very few red white decks at the top of the field. the metagame is actually very healthy, unlike last standard
Whine whine whine.
I'd rather face mono red then scarab god.
Would not have mulled to 4, you have 1 land, that's all you can ask for on 5 cards.
yeah... what was he thinking? how can a 4 cards hand be better than that? with 2 lands and 2 creatures? imo it was a missplay.
@@brunoqueiroz2759 It was a very controling hand, and you can't play that sort of game on a mull to 5 on the play. he also needed a second land for it to do anything, and the land he had entered tapped. best option was mull to 4 and hope for healers hawk, pridemate and 2 lands.
did not see what the cards were in the 5 cards hand besides the one land. you are probably right, but even then its a hard choice.
The likelyhood you get a better 4 card hard is so extremely low. You're more likely to rip a second land off the top.
@@quartersskates Doesn't matter, becuase the chance of winning with the hand he had was near zero. he had to draw land, land, benalish marshal or history to have a chance. and that's still a small chance since any removal or an opposing history of banalia/marshal just negates that. In magic you have to play to win, not to not lose. he saw the ony way to win as getting a better 4 card hand so he mulligained.
What kind of tablet is Andrew using?
I like the old school Plains use.
Good match up was pulling for LSV but good for Andrew !
Man that was really unfortunate.
does Scott-Vargas mean "knee" in spanish? would be an epic gathering :D
I love how Paul is so squished between marshal and reid
Wtf how does Luis do it?
Mulliganing is an inherent problem in the game.The added scry for mulligan was a great rule.
There needs to be more way to combat unfortunate hands like this so both players can actually play a game of magic.
It's unfortunate to see this flaw shown so prominently in the protour.
do you think if they changed it to scry for each missing card is too op? if u mulligan to 5 u then scry 2. Would that be too beneficial??
Whoever plays first in this mirror match has a huge advantage
This is Awesome
I never mulligan to four. LSV is one of my favorite players, I have no place to fault him. Once you mulligan to five or less, your odds of winning get significantly worse. He probably would have won if he had a decent six but he’s LSV, he’ll be back in the top 8.
Really hoping for a slower meta next rotation. Not mono red burn, boros agro and weenie white agro.
This hasn’t aged well :)
@@caseysmith7283 Oh? How so? I haven't played MTG in over a year at this point.
@@Evravon I think because every meta since has been utterly dominated by aggro decks, across all formats aggro is 45-90% of the meta.
How do the new blocking rules work? 23:37
insteaf od assigning how you will, there is an order
mulligan to 4 is nonsense, If we change the rules for the 2nd mulligan (6 to 5) we'd have more competitive games
EASY FIX OF RULES:
1st mulligan (7 to 6 cards): will happen as usual
2nd mulligan (6 to 5 cards): if you have less than 2 lands or less than 2 non-land cards you can redraw 5 cards again
3rd mulligan (5 to 4 cards): will happen as usual
or just free mulligan rule once as they did in the player of the year match
LSV is a legend!
Bring back Ser Davos photographer!
Another finals finish for lsv. Luis Scott Vargas is the goat
I dunno, I think having a loss due to mulligan would have felt worse if it had happened earlier
Lsv is so OP
Andrew played well, and at the same time I am sick for LSV. What a horrible way to lose in game 5.
is his last name a different version of ellenbogen (elbow) in german? ;D
All decks are just boros/red-white aggro, what is this! A diverse meta?
That constant rocking back and forth and shuffling the hand would be so distracting to play against.
media.giphy.com/media/3o85xlsBpogojB4FiM/giphy.gif
Likely why he does it...
It's a nervous habit. A lot of people do it.
@@sethpeters7362
The fuck people gotta be nervous about? Its a game.
@@jasoncarto It's a game with 250,000 dollars prize money and (potentially) your career on the line. But you know, just a game. Not like it's for high stakes or anything.
I love LSV but he doesn't look well. I hope he's ok.
WE CANNOT SEE ANYTHING! PLZ! DO SOMETHING, IS THAT THIS HARD TO DISPLAY IT PROPERLY!?
Returning to magic and noticing that it's awesome the rotation schedule got fixed, but it's not nice that you still haven't fixed these "bad luck" or "who plays first" issues, it actually seems worse. Mtg should not be about luck.
It's a card game you moron. Are you just an adolescent or did you really not think about the nonsense you typed?
MTG is awesome
Soooo this game was about to who can summon more creatures. Feels like Yu-Gi-Oh
Such a shame LSV had to mulligan to 4. I think his Original 7 was good enough but land heavy.
which doesnt seem to be an issue (from not playing this standard, and playstyle) wouldnt that have prevented being mana screwed? yes, but wouldve preferred getting those combo cards to wreck. i feel the land was a better choice
Don't understand the blame on the mulligan rule here. LSV knew the risks he is taking when not keeping the 7 cards and then even 5 cards. Not even mentioning the deck archetype that simply can't come back from so many mulligans.
lsv's weigh fluctuates so much. is this his final form?
Red blue smacks red white idk why these decks made it
A wiser fella once said, sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, the bear eats you
Unfortunate to see one guy mulligan down to almost nothing in the final game.
Luis looks like he's 50 years old !
Such a shame it finished with a mull to 4.
How to win for dummies: 1) be on the play 2) don't draw shit hand.
BTW, anybody knows if there is a good website with mtg statistics estimating players skill and checking if the distribution of win rates across pro players is significantly different than the one produced by purely random game outcomes?
Lmao why tf are these guys spazzing out so much. They’re shuffling so fucking quickly and sweating and going through their sideboard so quickly and then constantly swaying their limbs and body and twitching like wtf is happening
Yeah...it looks weird, like mild autism or something...
Andrew is on the ASD spectrum according to his twitter and overall a stressful situation for all I mean 50k is a lot of money
@@sethreagan300 considering they are pros and regularly go to tournaments, shouldn't they be use to it? Its not like they don't earn anything if they lose; they still make money.
@@hemmydall yes but noone would play if it wasnt exciting
I try my best to understand the last mulligan. i cant.
one land, enters tapped, lots of removal, on the play with fewer cards. would either play out where he draws no lands and can't win, or he draws lands and can only kill 2 things before he gats run over by almost anything. his best hope to win (not live longer, but actually win) is to mulligain to a hand with ajani's pridemate and a way to gain life each turn, for the pridemate to become huge and his opponent not answer it.
Im trying to understand first mulligan. Even with a five land hand he had a turn 1 play that would have put him up on life and with that many lands our of an already land light deck he would more than likely have pulled 8nto action going into turn 2 and he had a turn 3 in hand
@@AndelsHistory still about 1/3 of his draws would have been lands, and being up on life is meaningless. he'd get very easily run over with it. he'd pick it over going to 4, but definitly not over going to 6
Marshall is the only commentator i dont hate (i consider reid duke a player not a commentator)
Reiley?
i dun mind Reid as a player but he sounds like a total tosser/twat when he speaks
How could you possibly hate Cheon? He was my favorite streamer, I still miss watching him.
Better and more experienced player, better deck matchup wise, more games on the play.. but guess who won.
They were basically playing a mirror match, how was LSV's deck better? The settle lost a lot of value when it wasn't a secret sideboard tech. Also it was 2 to 2 going into the last match so Andrew was holding his own.
Luis' deck did not seem any better. They got to game 5 playing full games of Magic, if Luis had a decent 7 in the final game he still might not have won.
LSV's deck was clearly better in the mirror. If pridemate gets online, it's almost impossible to beat. It didn't come up, but it also gives him a way to generate enough card advantage to win on the draw.
Having additional lifegain and a creature that grows from that lifegain gives Luis an edge in the matchup. I played 24 or so games with this deck last night on Arena and won every mirror match, primarily because I can outrace due to the lifegain and them needing to deal with pridemate.
Andrew E commented that Luis' deck is stronger for the mirror. I trust his view and experience.
Settle down mate, you’re not on a rollercoaster
oi m8, you got a license for that opinion?
Find it so odd that you can be a commentator and still play competitively. Realise that it's not an issue but imagine Brady sliding into the studio for a little colour commentary when he's on a bye
That has literally happened.
@@jefffffers and I bet it was pretty surreal
F*** that rocking chair
What is wrong with Andrew rocking back and fourth.
Why would you assume there is something wrong due to that? Repetitive movement can be good for focus or calming the nerves. Similar to a mantra.
It annoyed me at first but then I thought he might actually have a medical issue.
It' just a tic. Leave him be.
@@SnowWhiteMR2 I have seen this behavior before so I thought it may be related. Maybe he is nervous and does that as a self soothing mechanism...? It it quite strange to watch.
Its just like someone else bouncing thier knee or drumming their fingers on table. Its a physical mechanism that channels extra energy and tension to aid focus.
Lol Hi Reid!
ajani's nightmare
This mulligan system must be replaced. It gives too many non games. Most of the times the second you draw a bad 7 you know it isn't going to go well no matter the mulligan option.
I'd second that with a new land system, but Magic is very stubborn on that.
Recently went back to magic after 15 years and what do I find? Aggro decks only and even almost the same ones. Sadly points out how much luck based and unbalanced Magic has become or was it always that way?
I'm going to copy /paste my earlier comments.. I've been playing since '94 and the issue came about sometime around Return to Ravnica onwards? It was definitely sometime maybe 2011-2013 time frame. It's hard to say exactly when it became a real issue.. but it is definitely within the past 6-8 years ish. It wasn't always that way, though. I used to be the only player who played a white weenie aggro even during zendikar block and won tournaments with it, but that was more because weenie was very rare and people didn't expect the match up because they were too in love with Jace, the mindsculptor, landfall, and fetch lands..
Yeah... It's quite unfortunate that standard has been plagued by this and you can only truly blame R&D. I had to quit playing at GPs / competitively as you get tired of spending money to attend knowing that you will be losing mostly to luck.. The simple fact that you lost the die roll and weren't on the play adds up over the course of a tournament.. You get that itch to play standard when you think it could be good again every 5-8 years and after you buy in/pick it up you soon remember why you quit.
At least with the rotation of Kaladesh and the introduction of dominaria + guilds we have other options to play for the first time.. albeit one could argue no guild is really all that much stronger than the others.. I personally believe that aggro + frenzy is the strongest way to go if you want to win tournaments atm, but that's my belief.
But let's not forget the recent standard history... meta has more or less been aggressively low-costed resilient aggro threats of some nature.. From top decking stormbreath dragon, Eldrazi winter, collected company, Mardu vehicles (copter scrapheap), B/G energy (the aggressive build), hazoret red, chainwhirler B/R aggro, and now we have Boros/white weenie..
The fundamental predicament is.. WOTC wants to make $$.. How do we get players to keep buying new cards? We have to power creep.. what else is there then to print bigger and better threats year after year? It's gotten to the point that top decking huge hasted threats with early low drop threats wins more often than not.. With a little luck (die roll), you can make it to the top.. assuming you dodge your bad match ups as well.
@@supaaznjigga Thanks a lot for this long comment by an obvisously experienced player. I'm not that experienced, but I play lots of MGT Arena these days, since it is a fast way to test out standard-decks and runs you through duells very fast. Luck seems to be a big issue here aswell - and of course the same decks are used over and over again. Black/White-Vampire or Red/White-Aggro and simple Green with big drops that are almost impossible to counter (Carnage Tyrant plus Blanchwood Armor f.eks.). Its very rare that I fight something else.
Another thing is that in real tournaments there are cheaters beeing caught on camera and they get no lifelong ban or real penalty? Why is that? I couldn't believe when I heard about it.
What you said about making $$: Just look at Ultimate Masters - 300$ in die US and 250€ in Europe is really a lot for 25 boosters including cards who will lose value due to the reprenting.
I don't know why this is happening, but it is not good and contrary for what WOTC stood for originally and I think most of the playerbase does not support this development.
@@qakn2228 I switched to aggro and got to mythic in one week
Oh look, another aggro deck, oh there's 7 more, nice
25:28
When you are so Hyped for The Tournament and then See ITS Standard -_-
Magic The Lamering
Comment section summary: rocking back and forth is annoying, god the meta sux, stupid mull to 4, cameras are crappy. There, now you don't have to read the comments.
Mvp
The guy who won had it easy.
LSV died for the London Mulligan
Watching the first round now I realize mono white was way worse then now
go fist win, go first win, go first win, go first win, mulligan lose. What more can i say :/
diverse meta lol
Hooray for triple mulligan for a pro tour finals? Is there honestly no solution to this? In my playgroup, we let you take a blind 7 if you mulligan past five. Whats the point of playing a game when you know you're going to lose.
It's necessary, bcause combo decks could heavily abuse any change to the mulligain rule. would just lead to decks playing fewer lands or being higher in variance because they know they can more often get the nut draw.
Gabriel Nassif won a game where he mulled to 4 with a dragonstorm deck in a moment that is one of the most iconic in pro tour history. Mulligans to 4 are not an automatic death sentence and they can still be fun games.
I get it but it just sucks to watch. If I was in Andrew's position, I would have let LSV go to 7. I want to beat a magic god at full strength on the biggest stage.
@@oldirtysean00 Maybe you would've but the rules of the game say you can't do that. This was the protour, the rules must be followed. Some times you have to mulligan and that can screw you but that is the game.
@@Dragonbear82 Big thing there was he was playing a combo deck and got really lucky.
wooow, what an impressive ending. not...
A good time to change some ruling about lands / mulligan.
Wat
They did. The scry mulligan rule is awesome.
@@TylerIsbell1 still not enough imo
In the player of the year matchup they allowed for a free first mulligan to 7. That is reasonable
If any of you have interacted with Luis, you would know he has almost no compassion for anyone other than himself. It’s hard to feel bad for the guy. Two great magic players, 5 great games. Congrats to Andrew! Luis....baby shark clap for you.
Winning is winning. It doesn't matter how you get the w at the end.
gd it. rooting so hard for lsv. what a bullshit way to lose
Not a good look for the game.
Reid duke does a good impression of a woman.
What do you mean by that?
@@KuroAcedia he looks like a woman
@@corriedebeer799 I dunno he does have long hair but other than that he seems pretty masculine to me
@@corriedebeer799 I'm not sure I'd agree with that considering the last time I saw him at that GP the other day he was rocking a full beard...
Boring.
Final table mirror match AGAIN.
Nice to know #Boros is the best of the GoR set...
#Populate>Convoke
Turned it on, saw another Pro Tour Aggro Mirror Match final, and turned it off. Took me thirty seconds. Boring as fuck.
Luis you're putting up weight again buddy.
I was wondering if someone was gonna say this lulz
@@nativekydgaming1644 twitch chat was going crazy with it.
The dude is probably comfortable with his new chick..... People always get fat when they are in a new relationship
First
Is Andrew on drugs ?
Meh
Top 8 cheaters ! POGGERS OMEGALUL
Standard is so boring and dull lol
This standard is great. multiple flavors/types of Aggro, Control, Midrange, and Combo/Tempo (However you want to describe Drakes) are all viable on top of a pile of fringe strats instead of 1 deck being the unquestioned best.
The most boring decks against each other
What the hell is wrong with their hands ?!?! The entire turn , the entire game they're mixing and looking and sorting and whatever their handcards..... This is so stupid ..... They need medication for this nervous behavior
It's just a tactic to keep your opponent from know what cards were drawn when. Like if you keep playing the card you just drew that would give your opponent an idea of what is in your hand that you couldn't play that turn. Or if you have been holding a single card from your opening hand the whole match they could figure out what card it is from your deck list. But if you shuffle every time you draw and play a card your opponent have no way a knowing in which order the cards were played.
@@TheKingOfApples100 no its just annoying fidgeting at a certain point.
@@cbnvhs08 Useful annoying fidgeting at the least.
@@TheKingOfApples100 well, we all know what type of player you are.
These are the average fat nerds with compulsive obsessions. They're good at the game for sure, but God, they look like autistic robots.
boring games
What a boring matchup...