For all structured training except when the particular workout has very short sprint intervals and the ERG responsiveness lags or that a controlled ramping up on my part is needed to hit cadence prior to the sprint. Never for mucking around on Zwift, either racing or informal rides.
I use ERG-mode when doing longer intervals in zone 2. Keeps me under LT1 (i´m into polarized training and that helps me to stay in the zone) I also do some zone 2 cruises/grouprides in SIM-mode but it have to be flat to hold me under LT1 enough of the time. ERG is also good for my 4 x 8 minuts in the "Seiler-zone" (88-92% of HR-max) but never in sprints or shorter intervals in VO2max-zone (40-20, 60-30, 30-30, 30-15, 15-15 etc)
Great video and great recommendations. My indoor training is exclusively erg mode, with FTP testing being the only exception. It would all fall under what Heath describes as 'steady state' training. I don't really do any VO2 training on my trainer, because by the time in the year I want to crank up the intensity to include more VO2 or sprint work I can actually do those outside, which is always better/more fun. But I am sure doing those in resistance mode would be the way to go otherwise so that if your legs struggle to keep the cadence up the trainer doesn't just lock itself up as it wants to do.
I generally have good power but started training on Zwift and use both modes - Erg mode challenges cadence and power which is actually a good training tool. Additionally free riding in Sim mode allows you to compete and shift which is also good - I equate erg mode to running fartleks and hill climbs which are both necessary to gain in power and speed. So I agree with the training coach however would have appreciated a couple of more specific examples of why both can be good - as he said, he uses both about 50-50.
I’ve never used ERG mode on my Neo. The video really helped with why I might use it, but I’m not training to race or anything so I’m happy riding like I would outdoors. Sometimes I’ll try and beat a previous time on a given online course if I want to make myself suffer!
Im exactly the opposite as the guest describes. I use erg mode for testing e.g. ramp test or short intense intervals. However for longer z2 rides I prefer to concentrate myself on the intensitiy since it keeps my mind busy because I do not use video distraction.
In my opinion and from my own experience I feel like ERG mode is pretty good for VO2 stuff. When I do 30/30s without ERG mode for example the first reps I always overshoot at the beginning making it less of a paced 30 sec effort. Using ERG mode however, all I have to do during such hard efforts is pedal steady instead of having to focus on shifting up and down countless times. With more steady state efforts like FTP intervals or long endurance rides on the other hand I don't use ERG mode.
I used it today for the first time and it was horrible. I will sure use it again and as the coach mentioned I also prefer the big chain ring. Fro. Your other vids it shows that intervals in the small chainring is better so it would perhaps be better to do intervals on slopes ? How do you prefer to do your threshold work ? I use to mix it up between hills and flats to work both positions. I believe that one should balance between hills and flats I guess Top vid getting in top coaches. It does add loads of value to listeners. Thanx
i use ERG for some workouts, and even within, only for Z4, Z5, Z6 intervals. Any intervals or workouts in zone 1, 2, 3, or recovery intervals, I don't have any difficulty staying in lower power zones, so I never use ERG... I find it better to be able to vary within that zone, and not have a fixed/forced power setting. However, when doing intervals in zones 4, 5 or 6, i really like using ERg, as it allows me to stay exactly in the prescribed power setting. For example, Z5 is very hard to maintain, i end up falling into z4 (not getting enough effect), or increasing to z6 (too much effort). Then when it gets to sprints, or all out efforts, again, ERG is not good. So... I find ERG to be good for only very few limited ranges
Thanks for the video. At the beginning of the video you describe ERG mode, but the accompanying video shows a rear derailleur moving down the cassette...decidedly NOT ERG mode. The edit is a bit confusing and subtly suggests that ERG mode is accomplished through control of the bike itself. Anyone who knows ERG mode knows that the resistance change is in the trainer and the bike gearing stays in one gear.
I believe he was referring to the Neo having a virtual flywheel controlled by neodymium magnets where other trainers have a physical flywheel. The NEO tends to be slightly more precise at controlling resistance at higher speeds when in Erg mode than other trainers when using a big gear.
Seth, you can change your gears in ERG mode, it just does not make sense. Trainer will always adjust resistance and increase/decrease resistance to selected power. Anyway, I personally prefer small ring for ERG mode.
@6:50 Can you help me to better understand what other muscles you'd be recruiting in a small chain ring than a large chain ring? The motion is the same no matter the gear choice.
If you are in a high gear then a small change in cadence will translate into a larger change in power output. This means that ERG mode will have to change the resistance by a larger amount. The result will be a more choppy ride.
I have been using ERG mode, for every work out for a while now, but started considering turning it off, especially for the higher output intervals. Mentally, turning it off feels like cheating, because ERG doesn't let you drop the watts during those later sets, forcing you to push harder than you might typically push if you are able to simply back off slightly to ease the pain.
I tried to use ERG mode on my suito Elite. But It was difficult to match the power. I had to do lots of cadence, but even like that was difficult. Your questions were good, but the answers not that clear.
SMART Bike Trainers thank you. When I use ERG mode, some times I don’t match the power even if I put lots o cadence and I still have power. The average power on intervals are always below the power defined.
Starting to think tat ERG is good for specific wattage work, fitness specific. But we need to train our mind and technique as well as our muscles. As the guest coach said above "like to check out" in erg. I think that misses a great training opportunity for when you take that work outdoors... if i'm used to trying to stay on the power targets myself in the workouts, rather than set it and forget it, then i'll have better developed my neural strength to be able to stay on my targeted watts at different phases of my ride or race outdoors.
Hi should the power spike in erg mode I fear my wahoo kickr core is faulty as in erg mode it goes from 200 down to 150 up to 240 back to 200 should it do this or stick to 200
When in erg mode, the trainer will try to control your resistance for you. It’s normal to see spikes but your average should come to your target power. Also, try to keep your cadence consistent and you should see smoother erg mode experience.
I have a wahoo Kickr too and find the same problem - even with cadence steady and power smoothing turned on. I get weird power drops as low as 50% of target being shown. Doesn’t seem like it should do this.
I really enjoyed erg mode at the start and it helps alot to keep the watts without thinking... With the new app called zwift activity monitor I find that I don't need it at all perhaps. Did you try that app ? It seems to give a more natural feel as you get to change your gears and also makes the effort more challenging due to the natural spike in gradient as the slight change in gradient and you go slightly out of the zone and getting back in. You have the options to see 30 sec power , 1min , 3min 5mins etc and I love the lap option.... Perhaps giving more adaptations ...
I’m gonna look today and see if there is a way at to turn erg mode off and just use resistance mode or vice a versa from the garmin. I may have to do it through the tacx app, anyway love the vids
Hi, thanks for the great video. Not using Erg mode for VO2 MAX work is certainly something I wouldn't have thought about. However, I've got these problems whilst doing steady state workouts (10~15 mins Threshold or long median/low intensity base ride) in erg mode using my 2016 Wahoo Kickr. Does these mean the Kickr is faulty? The symptoms are as follow: 1. Consistently 20 W below prescribed interval intensity, even after spin down. I constantly having to do 120% effort in order to hit the watts I am supposed to hit. 2. Sometimes, I discover I am below prescribed Watts (I monitor using 3s average Watts) in erg mode. Yet when I try to put power down, I ended up spinning faster and faster and drop power as a result. In terms of my setup, I upload training peak workouts into my Element Bolt and drive the kickr from my Element Bolt (paired to through bluetooth). Power is ready from my Garmin Vector 3S also paired to the Element Bolt. Did I do something wrong in my setup to cause this problem or was the Kickr faulty? Would read power from the Vector 3S and use it to drive the kickr a good idea? Would setting prescribed cadence in TrainingPeak workouts solve issue 2? Thanks for your help.
Good chat. Too many generalisations in training chat. All riders are different. Erg mode can do everything IF you know how to use it right. So many variables.
I had qubo elite digital smart. Now Direto XR. Try workout 1st time. Really hard on erg mode. Maybe I'm not there yet. I love erg mode because it keeps reminding you too hold the power when you don't. BUT I don't now. Direto have power OST integrated power meter and power really jumps to much... Do you know maybe is there an issue with Direto XR or it is just that hard hold the power... One more... If I do on big crank in front than Direto xr automatically make it hard to pedal and than I'm forced to jump on smaller crank in front...
I’ve never used ERG mode on my Neo. The video really helped with why I might use it, but I’m not training to race or anything so I’m happy riding like I would outdoors. Sometimes I’ll try and beat a previous time on a given online course if I want to make myself suffer!
How often do you use ERG mode?
For any interval except all out sprint, especialy +45 mins long sweetspot intervals, I can focus on movies/eurosport/YT :)
For all structured training except when the particular workout has very short sprint intervals and the ERG responsiveness lags or that a controlled ramping up on my part is needed to hit cadence prior to the sprint. Never for mucking around on Zwift, either racing or informal rides.
Whenever I am doing long zone 2 training. It's really convenient.
I use ERG-mode when doing longer intervals in zone 2. Keeps me under LT1 (i´m into polarized training and that helps me to stay in the zone) I also do some zone 2 cruises/grouprides in SIM-mode but it have to be flat to hold me under LT1 enough of the time.
ERG is also good for my 4 x 8 minuts in the "Seiler-zone" (88-92% of HR-max) but never in sprints or shorter intervals in VO2max-zone (40-20, 60-30, 30-30, 30-15, 15-15 etc)
Great video and great recommendations. My indoor training is exclusively erg mode, with FTP testing being the only exception. It would all fall under what Heath describes as 'steady state' training. I don't really do any VO2 training on my trainer, because by the time in the year I want to crank up the intensity to include more VO2 or sprint work I can actually do those outside, which is always better/more fun. But I am sure doing those in resistance mode would be the way to go otherwise so that if your legs struggle to keep the cadence up the trainer doesn't just lock itself up as it wants to do.
I've started using ERG mode more and more. Initially I was skeptical but it works pretty well on my Cycleops H2.
I generally have good power but started training on Zwift and use both modes - Erg mode challenges cadence and power which is actually a good training tool. Additionally free riding in Sim mode allows you to compete and shift which is also good - I equate erg mode to running fartleks and hill climbs which are both necessary to gain in power and speed. So I agree with the training coach however would have appreciated a couple of more specific examples of why both can be good - as he said, he uses both about 50-50.
Love ERG mode on the kickr. Plus their great for triathletes, you can do great decoupling sessions Watts v HR.
I’ve never used ERG mode on my Neo. The video really helped with why I might use it, but I’m not training to race or anything so I’m happy riding like I would outdoors. Sometimes I’ll try and beat a previous time on a given online course if I want to make myself suffer!
Thanks. Finally I got it
Im exactly the opposite as the guest describes. I use erg mode for testing e.g. ramp test or short intense intervals. However for longer z2 rides I prefer to concentrate myself on the intensitiy since it keeps my mind busy because I do not use video distraction.
In my opinion and from my own experience I feel like ERG mode is pretty good for VO2 stuff. When I do 30/30s without ERG mode for example the first reps I always overshoot at the beginning making it less of a paced 30 sec effort. Using ERG mode however, all I have to do during such hard efforts is pedal steady instead of having to focus on shifting up and down countless times. With more steady state efforts like FTP intervals or long endurance rides on the other hand I don't use ERG mode.
I used it today for the first time and it was horrible. I will sure use it again and as the coach mentioned I also prefer the big chain ring. Fro. Your other vids it shows that intervals in the small chainring is better so it would perhaps be better to do intervals on slopes ? How do you prefer to do your threshold work ? I use to mix it up between hills and flats to work both positions. I believe that one should balance between hills and flats I guess
Top vid getting in top coaches. It does add loads of value to listeners. Thanx
i use ERG for some workouts, and even within, only for Z4, Z5, Z6 intervals. Any intervals or workouts in zone 1, 2, 3, or recovery intervals, I don't have any difficulty staying in lower power zones, so I never use ERG... I find it better to be able to vary within that zone, and not have a fixed/forced power setting. However, when doing intervals in zones 4, 5 or 6, i really like using ERg, as it allows me to stay exactly in the prescribed power setting. For example, Z5 is very hard to maintain, i end up falling into z4 (not getting enough effect), or increasing to z6 (too much effort). Then when it gets to sprints, or all out efforts, again, ERG is not good. So... I find ERG to be good for only very few limited ranges
Thanks for the video. At the beginning of the video you describe ERG mode, but the accompanying video shows a rear derailleur moving down the cassette...decidedly NOT ERG mode. The edit is a bit confusing and subtly suggests that ERG mode is accomplished through control of the bike itself. Anyone who knows ERG mode knows that the resistance change is in the trainer and the bike gearing stays in one gear.
Good catch! I selected the wrong clip for that one. Unfortunately, can’t fix on CZcams once published 🤷🏻♂️
what coach meant by difference between Neo and others?
I believe he was referring to the Neo having a virtual flywheel controlled by neodymium magnets where other trainers have a physical flywheel.
The NEO tends to be slightly more precise at controlling resistance at higher speeds when in Erg mode than other trainers when using a big gear.
Seth, you can change your gears in ERG mode, it just does not make sense. Trainer will always adjust resistance and increase/decrease resistance to selected power.
Anyway, I personally prefer small ring for ERG mode.
Delkim, of course physically you can, but that’s not the point of it. The video sends the wrong message at that clip.
@6:50 Can you help me to better understand what other muscles you'd be recruiting in a small chain ring than a large chain ring? The motion is the same no matter the gear choice.
If you are in a high gear then a small change in cadence will translate into a larger change in power output. This means that ERG mode will have to change the resistance by a larger amount. The result will be a more choppy ride.
I have been using ERG mode, for every work out for a while now, but started considering turning it off, especially for the higher output intervals. Mentally, turning it off feels like cheating, because ERG doesn't let you drop the watts during those later sets, forcing you to push harder than you might typically push if you are able to simply back off slightly to ease the pain.
I tried to use ERG mode on my suito Elite. But It was difficult to match the power. I had to do lots of cadence, but even like that was difficult. Your questions were good, but the answers not that clear.
Sorry you found the answers not clear. Is there something specific you are having a trouble with or wasn’t clear that
I can try to help with?
SMART Bike Trainers thank you. When I use ERG mode, some times I don’t match the power even if I put lots o cadence and I still have power. The average power on intervals are always below the power defined.
Same. Havin the same issue.
Starting to think tat ERG is good for specific wattage work, fitness specific. But we need to train our mind and technique as well as our muscles. As the guest coach said above "like to check out" in erg. I think that misses a great training opportunity for when you take that work outdoors... if i'm used to trying to stay on the power targets myself in the workouts, rather than set it and forget it, then i'll have better developed my neural strength to be able to stay on my targeted watts at different phases of my ride or race outdoors.
Hi should the power spike in erg mode I fear my wahoo kickr core is faulty as in erg mode it goes from 200 down to 150 up to 240 back to 200 should it do this or stick to 200
When in erg mode, the trainer will try to control your resistance for you. It’s normal to see spikes but your average should come to your target power. Also, try to keep your cadence consistent and you should see smoother erg mode experience.
I have a wahoo Kickr too and find the same problem - even with cadence steady and power smoothing turned on. I get weird power drops as low as 50% of target being shown. Doesn’t seem like it should do this.
I really enjoyed erg mode at the start and it helps alot to keep the watts without thinking...
With the new app called zwift activity monitor I find that I don't need it at all perhaps. Did you try that app ? It seems to give a more natural feel as you get to change your gears and also makes the effort more challenging due to the natural spike in gradient as the slight change in gradient and you go slightly out of the zone and getting back in. You have the options to see 30 sec power , 1min , 3min 5mins etc and I love the lap option.... Perhaps giving more adaptations ...
Are we gonna just ignore the fact that the host looks like the cyclist version of Kumail Nanjiani? 😄
Thanks for the video!
I definitely look better 😁
I’m gonna look today and see if there is a way at to turn erg mode off and just use resistance mode or vice a versa from the garmin.
I may have to do it through the tacx app, anyway love the vids
Hi, thanks for the great video. Not using Erg mode for VO2 MAX work is certainly something I wouldn't have thought about.
However, I've got these problems whilst doing steady state workouts (10~15 mins Threshold or long median/low intensity base ride) in erg mode using my 2016 Wahoo Kickr. Does these mean the Kickr is faulty? The symptoms are as follow:
1. Consistently 20 W below prescribed interval intensity, even after spin down. I constantly having to do 120% effort in order to hit the watts I am supposed to hit.
2. Sometimes, I discover I am below prescribed Watts (I monitor using 3s average Watts) in erg mode. Yet when I try to put power down, I ended up spinning faster and faster and drop power as a result.
In terms of my setup, I upload training peak workouts into my Element Bolt and drive the kickr from my Element Bolt (paired to through bluetooth). Power is ready from my Garmin Vector 3S also paired to the Element Bolt.
Did I do something wrong in my setup to cause this problem or was the Kickr faulty? Would read power from the Vector 3S and use it to drive the kickr a good idea? Would setting prescribed cadence in TrainingPeak workouts solve issue 2? Thanks for your help.
Good chat. Too many generalisations in training chat. All riders are different. Erg mode can do everything IF you know how to use it right. So many variables.
I had qubo elite digital smart. Now Direto XR. Try workout 1st time. Really hard on erg mode. Maybe I'm not there yet. I love erg mode because it keeps reminding you too hold the power when you don't. BUT I don't now. Direto have power OST integrated power meter and power really jumps to much... Do you know maybe is there an issue with Direto XR or it is just that hard hold the power... One more... If I do on big crank in front than Direto xr automatically make it hard to pedal and than I'm forced to jump on smaller crank in front...
erg mode off works on alpe du swift or climb?
Climbing Alpe du Zwift? I always do it in sim mode unless I’m doing a specific workout.
I’ve never used ERG mode on my Neo. The video really helped with why I might use it, but I’m not training to race or anything so I’m happy riding like I would outdoors. Sometimes I’ll try and beat a previous time on a given online course if I want to make myself suffer!