What's Wrong with Calanthe's Armour?
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Poor Calanthe. If you cannot serve as a good example then perhaps you can be a cautionary tale. Still, overall, the armour's not The Worst. It's just...pretty standard levels of OK.
And since I have yet to see a modern film or TV show where armour actually protects anyone from...much of anything, maybe it doesn't even matter.
Zac’s video: • Queen Calanthe's Armou...
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Five Internet Points for correctly identifying this video's Random Cameo by using an appropriate catchphrase :D
Too easy... (as long as i understood the challenge) it is our highly valued *Captain Context* !
At risk of being the one who looks like a creep, somebody's got to mention his extensive use of the word 'penetration'.
Are we talking about Matt? I’m surprised he didn’t mention Raid: Shadow Legends…
@@lyndonmarquis414 gotta make money somehow. Raid pays a lot
Alrighty here I go: "SPADROONS ARE TRASH!"
“Breathing is a unisex thing” had me rolling in laughter. It’s the little mundane things that get you…
I feel like someone should make a gif of this...
I want “Breathing is a unisex thing” on a T-shirt
Her humor is why I love Jill so
It's a seriously hot take.
Citation needed
I've never seen the show, but the first thing that stands out to me as an illustrator is the fact that her armour is basically the same colour as her skin. Even the leather bits blend right in. The whole things just looks sepia-tone and archaic compared to the more vibrant and interesting colours around here.
Also the fact that the shoulder piece is more off-silver draws the eye a bit too much, considering it's such an unflattering piece compared to the chestplate.
Boring colour palettes are also a bit of a feature of the show, honestly. Or not even boring colours just...a really muted colour grade.
@@JillBearup I think it's even worse with the monster design where they mostly have ''earthy'' or ''metal-ish'' color palette. The whole show looks dead color-wise
@@JillBearup That's fair. But to me boring/muted is one thing, and completely lacking in contrast is another.
With that, the boxy shape, and the thinness of the metal, I find the end result looks sort of cheap. The overall look almost brings to mind bronze age stuff, rather than gold plating.
oh i think that is my issue with it
@@JillBearup The near monotone is supposed to signify the grim and dark and "everything's out to kill you, even more so than Australia" setting.
6:22 Let's be honest. Audiences have been trained to think *all* armor is useless. When was the last time you've seen armor actually protect it's wearer from an attack in film? Arrows just go right through the stuff!
I remember reading some Arthurian story (from the era they were popular in France) back in highschool... A one-on-one fight between two knights. Anyways, they would beat on each other for a while, agree to take a break, and then go back to trying to kill each other. Wash, rinse, repeat until one of them got a lucky hit in or died of exhaustion or something.
It really stuck with me because I was also playing Warhammer FRP at the time. Warhammer FRP has a toughness stat and you'd occasionally get battles going where one of the combatants (or both) were all but immune to the attacks from the other. Shadowrun (I was also playing at the time) had "fatigue damage" as well as physical damage, which inspired us to implement something similar as a house rule for FRP.
Anyways... Just a rant. Yeah, fighting in good armour is often more about endurance and exhaustion than getting an arrow through your breastplate.
Unless it's mithril.
Sounds like "The Once and Future King".
@@T_Mo271 There are many incidences like this in Mallory.
Lord of the Rings when Frodo gets impaled by the cave Troll but survives due to his mithril mail. Ironically, that should have totally killed him since it was basically a battering ram and threw him clear across the room. Magic, I guess.
Also, I have a distinct memory of someone in a movie getting chopped across the belly with an arming sword, getting the wind knocked out of them, but being otherwise uninjured but I have no idea where I saw it.
I have the feeling with Calanthe's armor is that the costume designer made a proper chest plate and the director said, "No that looks too effeminate for her butch-esque design". I imagine they made an on-the-fly adaptation to put it on backwards to make her feminine curvature go away.
I hate that they felt the need to make her butch in the first place, book Calanthe was fully capable of scaring the shit out of Geralt just by smiling at him a certain way, and yet she still fully looked the part of a feminine and elegant queen.
I don't think Hollywood will ever realize strong, powerful women can also fully embrace femininity. It wasn't a neccessary change.
It REALLY looks like it's on backwards. The arm cutouts would prevent her from reaching forward comfortably. Flatness aside, the arm cutouts aren't deep enough.
@@sarahtaylor4264 Hollywood does manage that on occasion, the best examp[le of this is probably Ripley from Alien & Aliens. Cameron also did a good job with Sarah Connor in the first Terminator movie and Lucas did a pretty good job of it with Princess Leia in the OT Star Wars.
@@indy2867 They dont just look backwards they look the wrong shape, and its made worse by the slight line along the center which suggests a spine. the only reason it looks the right way rounf at all are he decorative lions.
Breathing is a unisex thing is my new favourite retort when talking about armour
Well, I guess it IS LARP armour. Isn't a fantasy TV show basically professional live action role playing?
Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct.
The best kind of correct.
I think the key word in your sentence is professional.
RARP? Recorded Action Role Playing?
Minus the live action part
I think you have made a good point.
I appreciate how you address budget constraints and the fact that the analysis is somewhat unnecessary, but it’s also fun and interesting!
I'm going to guess that it's even simpler than all this. That there was a mistake or an accident with the armor and they ended up using the backplate because the frontplate they made didn't work. But that's mostly because I keep thinking of how Inara's ballgown in Firefly was the costume designer's wedding dress on backwards, so...
I was thinking about that tooo! and it didn't fit right so they had to sew her into it last minute!
I did not know that. Thank you for sharing. BROWN COATS 4 EVAR! WE SHALL RISE AGAIN! (according to certain gossip posts, at least)
Shiney! I did not know that, thank you!
It still looks better than the scrotal Nilf armor.
@@russellholmes3187 Nah, shirts are better...
6:28 "Don't get me started"
I kind of want to hear about this now, though...
"She wouldn't have a full uniform yet, not until someone had taken a, well, let's face it, a breastplate along to old Remitt the armourer and told him to beat it out really well here and here."
- Men at Arms, by Terry Pratchett
Angua von Uberwald.
I'm a simple AI: someone quotes Pratchett, someone gets a thumbs up :)
other problems with metal armour compared to plastic: Falling off a horse in metal armour is really bad, if metal armour takes a dent (from a fall or blow) it creates a continuity error in the next take (plastic armour doesn't dent in the same way).
I like that you are taking into account the realities of a movie set, because only taking into account the budget and people and character doesn't account for the probably hours of takes for a single scene. Where a real thing of armor can take a certain amount of hits, the cameras will demand the exact same thing from a person for a long time.
It really strikes me as just classic overcorrection. They want her to basically be a sharp contrast with Yennefer, while at the same time they should both come across as badasses. So they put her in armour that's excessively flat to avoid being accused of putting her in boobplate, and in so doing made it quite hard for Jodhi May to move in. As modern female veterans will tell you, there's a difference between boobplate and making adjustments to fit.
I wonder if they were trying to emphasize her aggressive, almost teen boy personality while showing her as frail, but still fighting in the ranks
Tolkien was pretty specific about mail being the state of the art in Middle Earth. On one of the Extended Edition DVDs they go into how intensive their process was for making what shows up on screen. IIRC there were a bunch of craftspeople at WETA whose whole job was to make chainmail all day long which brings up a really good reason why plate is preferred for film: its time intensive to make unless you want to do the old school way which is basically a spray painted sweater (Game of Thrones did this ALOT).
Yup. The guys involved in making the chainmail for LOTR created a whole new method, as they wanted to avoid the "metallic knitwear" image. They were using thinly sliced rubber hose, which was painted and then heat-sealed back together, and was done by a small team (I think like five people or fewer?) who basically sat in their little workspace with the cutting machine slicing them thousands of rings that had to then be painted and linked, then sealed. I seem to recall that a couple of them actually wore away parts of their fingerprints doing this. It's a bit tedious, but it honestly looks really good, and makes it easier to employ lighter forms of armor, like boiled leather, rather than jumping straight into plate with nothing under it but a padded gambeson.
I've seen 3d printed maille using abs plastic that would look a lot better while being quite low labor in construction
Yeah, people always want to paint LotR as a medieval fantasy setting, but it's always been a mythic prehistory.
Also, tabards covering not-actually-armor is a far more economic and practical solution. You can easily identify who is who, just give the illusion of heavy armor instead of actually putting the bulk of the cast in fake heavy armor, and cover up difficult elements of costume design while saving the budget for nice looking gear for a handful of characters.
Tabards! Yes! I like that idea. It would also give more places to stick the Cintran lion heraldry in the battle scene, which is good, and as you said, it can cover up for a multitude of things hiding that you didn't actually put your cast in full armor. (Also, as my old World of Warcraft characters' inventories could attest, I just like tabards. They're fun.)
Pick any period when a fabric outer covering was a thing for your armour. Perhaps coat of plates. All that shows on the outside is some rivets. Bare metal was in the medieval period used for armour in the late period and then for the rich. It is notable that many of the pictures of exposed metal armours shown in this video are Tudor to nineteenth century.
By tanbaard do you mean a surcoat?
@@nathanielwilcox4947 Judging by the wikipedia entries on both, probably. Unfortunately, modern misinterpretation/linguistic conflation has led to "tabard" being a general sort of thing that includes what a tabard actually is, as well as subsuming what the specific term "surcoat" means.
@@Mokiefraggle Thank you my good sir, ma'am, they for going to the trouble of actually looking that up, and actually fact checking.
When she's walking/standing in the gold armor (which I thought was bronze), she's leaning her upper body back slightly. Almost how someone with a large belly or advanced pregnancy would. Her head isn't in line with her pelvis. On the horse, in the silver colored armor, she's very upright, with good posture. It gives the yellow colored armor more of an uncanny valley feeling IMO.
Her arms in both sets looking like slightly undersized sticks doesn't help either.
It looked to me more like she was thrusting out her hips, it feels arrogant in a that actually fits her in the scene.
If you're trying to avoid a fight without losing face then swaggering around with your big dick swinging free seems right & like it fits the character shown in the scene.
Thank you for pointing this stuff out. As a writer, this is helpful to know. That being said, I straight-up laughed when I saw a book about a blade master and the girl on the cover was wearing a crop top with a deep v-neck and it looked armor-y. All I could think was you saying "Yes! Stab me here!"
In Italy we still have cuirassiers!! They’re called corazzieri and are the president’s guards. They still have a sort of armour look for formal events, and also have formal clothes for everyday work. Either version still features the very cool looking helmet with the long, horse-like tail at the back!
As someone who's been in the cosplay scene, I've people make foam look metallic with just paint effects. Of course that does take time but you'd think they'd take the time for one of the important characters.
Given all the stories people have been sharing due to the IATSE strikes I get the impression that costume departments would love to invest that time but are basically saddled with doing a lot of work with little time or budget, which sucks because they clearly love their jobs, they just don't get the chance to do them properly, and the characters look worse as a result :/
For me it's always been the spaulders that made me do an "Eh??" at Calanthe's armour. They look like they don't match the breast-plate, as if they're from a different armour set. Other than that, it worked well enough. I'm not an expert on this subject so aside from the "thank God it's not a boob-plate design", I was happy to just roll with it.
6:15 Ok but I would totally watch a video about how popular media has misinformed people about the uses of armor.
Note, though that English Civil War armour could also look weird, with surprisingly modern-sports-helmet styling to some of the helmets, and the buckskin jackets under breastplates. Look at Royal Armouries' _Armor of King James II,_ for example.
it is also similar to Polish armor of a similar period.
@@j.f.fisher5318 cool - I'd not looked into the light-cav side before
@@j.f.fisher5318 Yes i was thinking Strelzky from the instant I saw it.
it's worth noting here that the English civil war was a... weird period in the history of warfare, as the proliferation of the longbow in england had rendered heavy cavalry almost entirely useless, but unlike firearms, hadn't done a single thing to the effectiveness of armour itself. Basically it was easy to defeat the old 'heavy knights' by shooting their horses (even the best armour is basically pointless if a 1 ton animal falls on you), but given those knights were being beaten by their own horses, the easy solution was to get your step count up and walk towards the enemy. Your armour is still pretty much arrow proof (especially with a decent shield), and if you as good order heavy infantry, the lightly armoured, incorrectly armed bowmen aren't going to stay in place for long (and you can still bring the rest of your army to do all the other stuff, but now your most expensive and most prized soldiers aren't going to get wiped out by some peasants with bendy sticks sat on an important hill).
@@reganator5000 what does any of that have to do with the English Civil Wars? The English Civil Wars are the English parts of the conflicts of the 1640’s. What he is talking about is the armour worn by Oliver Cromwell, Prince Rupert and others (for instance James II and VIII). So why were you wittering on about the Wars of the Roses?
Of all franchises, you'd hope that Lord of the rings had trained people to not think mail is useless.
Frodo survives a cave troll smashing him thanks to his mail shirt and its pretty memorable....
But I guess they figured it was just because magic mythril metal. 🤔
Love how you geek out on this stuff both from a practical and from a theatrical standpoint. Having both perspectives makes for twice the learning and entertainment! And, of course, it brings better understanding & sympathy for the challenges that come with getting these things onto film, which is its own sort of valuable education.
Today I learned that the little shoulder pads I had on one of the characters in my graphic novel are called spaulders. Your videos always educate as well as entertain (as well as make me either feel better about my armor designs or know where I should make improvements in them)
It's very common for movies to rent costumes. It's been a long time since I watched that scene, but do we ever see the back, no front, no... the other side of that armor? That funny walk might have been to hide the other side. What if there's something about this rented armor that required them to not show the front so they swapped it and hoped no one would notice? Too recognizable as from a different show? Damaged? Actual boob armor? Honestly, since they didn't expect this show to blow up like it did, I'm betting this was in fact a "eep gotta make do!" moment.
I really disliked the costume design for the Witcher especially in the first season. Not just the armour but the dresses and court costumes as well, I thought that in a show which is notoriously jumpy in time and place the costuming could have been an excellent clue. Each kingdom should really have a unique style (the Skellegers being indistinguishable from the Cintrians for example really bugged me) which would have clarified where we were and those styles should have slightly changed depending on when we were. Only Nilfgaard really looked different, though not necessarily in a good way. And don't get me started on some of Yen's dresses in the first season. The game has its own problems with costume design (why Ves why!) but I honestly thought it was leaps and bounds better especially for the non-main characters though it does have the benefit of animation.
as someone who loves fantasy and has worked as a concept artist, it is so fun to come up with design rules to establish a coherent and rich visual language to communicate the locations and cultures. striking a balance of things being distinct enough to clearly communicate differences while still making everyone feel like part of the same world is such an interesting challenge, but there are very few live action media that manages it.
But it's particularly frustrating when it's based on books that give a pretty good starting point.
As a book reader I was excited to see what they would do for Yen’s costumes until I realized they had her wearing prom dresses and party city dominatrix costumes😭
@@vladaimpaler 1000 times ^THIS!!! ^
Heh i pers. thought, that majority of armors in game looked either weird or straight up ugly. So if show decided to follow game design, i wouldnt be too happy about that.
I honestly just wish it didn't look like some poorly put together generic fantasy show. I was excited to see the influences of culture, time, and so on but everything looks thrown together from scraps of dirty brown, grey, and sometimes blue or red fabric cabbage.
That royal guard's armour looks really good, imo. It's the perfect amount of form and function, with layering in detail and plating pieces that conjures a mixed temporal sense of medieval era and Spaniard conquistador era styles. Maybe not practical, but really good for a fantasy setting.
Both (informative & entertaining) - thank you!
“Breathing is a unisex thing” has got to become a thing for your merch!
In all honesty "Real people have to wear this for 14 hours a day, yes even on their lunch breaks" is a real concern that more nerds need to take into consideration when needlessly nitpicking at "historical accuracy" in TV shows. Give the poor actors a break, they've got it hard enough!
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, it's already lightweight compared to the real deal and--much like in the debate on Hollywood corsetry--if they'd fit the darn stuff right, and make it to the actor and maybe give them some time to get used to the fit before asking them to go out there for 14-hour shoots, maybe it wouldn't be as difficult to act/work in. I mean, that stuff is probably aluminum at best, possibly just some sort of fiberglass or other material that's easy to mold and cast, so if it's fitted right and makes use of the whole body to distribute the weight as should be happening in armor, then it shouldn't even be a concern wearing it for hours, because no one part of the body is being worn on excessively.
@@Mokiefraggle YES!!!!
You mean like in corsetry when not being historically accurate is the reason why the corsets are uncomfortable. Were they made correctly, the actresses would be able to wear them comfortably for hours on end.
also maybe give them reasonable working hours so they can take it off after 7 or 8 hours instead lol
It's true. But it's also true that it's something that Hollywood's costume designer should take into account when making a design because "it looks cool/sexy", someone will actually have to wear it and move/act in it.
The saddest thing is the costumes in the game are super iconic and very cool looking - also have a much more colourful medieval vibe and excellent hats
exactly... why were they so afraid of having hats in the show? Give us some damn hats!
@@vladaimpaler Seriously. Why did it take until Season 2 for Jaskier to get a hat? That's one of the most identifying details of the character in the books and the games! His ridiculous hat with the huge egret plume! He's a _bard,_ which means that most of his time is spent as a glorified busker more than anything, unless he gets hired for a job like Pavetta's betrothal banquet, so he's trusting his audience to "toss a coin," as the song goes. Therefore, shouldn't he have something for them to toss the dang coins in?
them: what are your hobbies
me: watching videos of a lady talking about fake armor on youtube... i mean reading
2 thoughts that stick out, first, her spaulders are giving me more 1980s shoulder pads that fantasy armor. Second, in that brief clip of her in the dress you had, she looked more physically intimidating in that, than in her armor. I think it’s at least partly the broadening of her upper body with the sleeves, but idk.
It looks to me like the segmentation is purely decorative 'folds' on a single-piece backplate. Also, kind of wondering if some costume designer with a very poor understanding of history or how combat armour works *intentionally* made it hard to move in, for 'authenticity' (because a lot of people do seem to have that exact misunderstanding about medieval European armour).
I think there is another balance point you kind of sloughed off and that is time on screen. Calanthe spent most of her time on screen not in the armour. There was her entrance scene at the banquet and a few scenes of her battle with the Nilfys. Even her death scenes she wasn't in armour. I can forgive them for less than good choices for a costume that has maybe 2 minutes of screen time in the entire show.
Excellent point! :)
Looks as if they put on the pauldrons of the silver armour with the part that should be towards the neck pointing down (towards the elbow). So they did not only use a back plate for a chest plate, but also got that incorrect.
One of my favorite books has a bad guy be defeated because he covered his v practical armor in gold, which made it a liiitle bit heavier and made him a liiitle bit slower than his evenly matched but normally armored former bff, and since his whole thing was arrogance it was beautifully character relevant
12:33 SIGH! Armour was DESIGNED to move in it. The more accurate the style, the better the mobility. When you lay your life on the line, you do not want to lose it because your armour didn't allow you to move. Armour protects from pointy things stabbing you, it also gives some protection from blunt force trauma.
BUT! NO armour is perfect.Hit it enough times with enough force, it will deform and stop protecting you.
This was known and taken into account. People in armour were able to dodge blows coming at them.
Also at ~7:28, these are quiches, not tassets. Tassets are there to protect the groin , not the thighs, that's what quiches are for.
Armour , was never designed to be quick to wear. However, if its fitted correctly..its like its not there at all. You can go all day long wearing armour, doing whatever .
As long as you hydrate.. you're ok! You take it off at the end of the day, have a nice relaxing bath.. you 'll be tired, i'm not going to lie, but you wont be dead on your feet, nor suffering sprained muscles and joints.
Insist on personally fitted armour, historically accurate personally fitted armour. Not because it just looks better, it will save you a host of problems down the line.
Do not take my word on it. Go talk to people doing historical re-enactment. Not LARP , that's a different thing. Historical re-enactors.
Like i said it will save you a whole host of problems, both during filming and after.
I always just assumed it was done on purpose to make her alien... But the more i think about it... Based on the back plate thread... Maybe the armor was made to the wrong size and they could not use the front plate so they took the back plate and just frankestined it.. Who knows.
Could be. There is very much an impression on the armor design that either the chest armor got rejected - or broke - or the armor was originally made for a different actor.
I thought the "lack of cohesiveness" in Witcher culture, dress, architecture was because everybody had been pulled through gates from different worlds and it was a hodge podge sorting itself out.
That explains it across different cultures/groups, certainly. Elves might have different armor, weapons, etc. from humans, Cintrans have a definitely disparate culture from the folk of the Skellige Isles or of Nilfgaard. But given how long ago the Conjunctions of the Spheres are implied to have taken place (long enough that the humans, who came from these other Spheres, have become an established, settled race, and have been so for centuries), the disparity shouldn't be so massive as to have absolutely no cohesion of design within armor and clothing from a single culture. Calanthe's armor shouldn't be _that_ removed from that worn by her countrymen, for all that it is massively removed from, say, a Zerrikanian warrior like Tea or Vea from the dragon hunt, or a Witcher who needs armor that is as mobile as it is protective.
@@Mokiefraggle Maybe Calanthe looted magic armor on a distant quest? lol
I would actually love to hear you tackle pop culture misconceptions about mail, so, by all means, get started!
I said it last time I'll say it this time, Calanthe's armour looks like it's one soldid piece over the torso and the back is too heavy so its ridden up. I hadn't even noticed how odd the belt placement looks until this video but it just adds to my feeling on the matter
OK, so first, for a fight where armor actually WORKS, check out Peter v Miraz, in The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian. Attacks are clearly targeted *around* the armor, right up until Peter loses his helm (ie, they know they can't cut through it). At that point, basically all of Miraz's attacks go at Peter's head, and there's a shot where he's on his back and throws up his vambraces to take a blow aimed at his face. Sword skitters right off the armor.
Next, on the subject of Calanthe's harness: the gold armor is materially different from the silver. UNLIKE the silver set, the golden set is *clearly* a costume piece, insofar as it's not properly constructed. The faulds of the breastplate are flatly non-functional. Those sort of faulds absolutely depend on the existence of sliding rivets. But a sliding rivet has to have a slot in which to slide, and this harness *doesn't have any*. You'd be able to see them somewhere under her arms, and there's nothing in any frame or gif of the armor I can locate. It's only the lowest lame which ever articulates, and it does so purely on simple rotational pins on the sides. I would posit that this harness was constructed in a hurry due to the large number of reshoots for the Witcher Season 1, and I'd further posit that it wasn't originally intended to be in the show at all, but was added and they used the *silver* harness as a base point of reference, and were told "make it gold" to match the color palette of these shots. It may even be a piece *cast* from a mold of the silver harness, and while the lames might have been cut apart to give visual depth to the armor, they were probably just glued or pinned back in place (save for the lowest lame, which must articulate for her to do any movement aside from just walking).
Finally, as a follow-up point to some of your arguments - and in particular why they're using plate in LOTR:RoP - there is the problem in film of character identification. That is, it's not just the silhouette which is critical, but also the audience's ability to instantly pick up whom is who during an action shot which may only last a half-second or less. While there's barely any plate armor at all in the LOTR books (only a passing reference to Imrahil's vambraces, fogged by the wounded Eowyn's breath to ascertain if she's alive), the problem with putting everyone in "historically" correct armor is that everybody basically looks the same, particularly during quick cuts. While it's POSSIBLE to shoot action in a way that gets around this, it's honestly way, WAY, easier to arm the various factions in a battle scene in visually distinct armor. Witcher does it with both silhouette and color. LOTR does so via material; you can tell at a glance who's Gondorian, Rohirrim, Uruk-hai, and so forth. Since it's so much more freeing for the directors to put people in anything which isn't just "mail, it's not surprising that basically nobody does actually *accurate* 9-10th century mail harness. It's also unsurprising that as a focus character, Calanthe was stuffed into a harness (even the slightly better silver one) which first and foremost gives her a totally unique silhouette. She is always 100% identifiable, regardless of the length or direction of the shot.
Incidentally, if you're looking to put together an internet round table for LOTR armor someday, since I'm SURE there'll be plenty to pontificated over, I'm SAFD (A/AC since 2003), teach HEMA (bloß and harnishfechten), used to partake in armored horseback stupidity, and I was the dramaturg on the LOTR stage plays, which were actually a thing: www.theonering.net/torwp/2001/08/29/18142-lotr-play-in-cincinnati/
That's a really interesting breakdown of the Prince Caspian fight. Now I need to see that again.
I've read the books, and Book Calanthe would wipe the floor with Show Calanthe, purely on the practicality of armor. In the books she's known as a terrifying adversary in battle and is willing to fight an armored man bare handed if need be. There's a reason her symbol is the lion. Her armor would be heavy in the chest and shoulders, and probably not coated in any decoration or gold, she only wears dresses or decoration when she needs to impress others at the banquet for her daughter. Calanthe is a warrior first and a queen second, she'd never have such ill-fitting outfits and ESPECIALLY not her armor.
This just looks like a critique of fantasy armor. Count me in. *grabs notebook*
Kind of curious, has there ever been an suit of armor that if it was more realistic / functional that it would legitimately affect the plot?
Of course Henry VIII had gold plated armor.
I think the "gold" armor is actually just her armor in a different, warmer lighting context. The design is identical otherwise.
There's such an aggressive contrast in colors between her spaulders and the cuirass that I think this is unlikely. The battle scene armor is relatively consistent in color, while the golden armor she's wearing at the start of the banquet scene has a _profound_ difference in color when you reach the spaulders, which are clearly a steel color with golden lion paws over top, in contrast to the deep, almost brassy gold of the cuirass. It feels like the two parts are just completely mismatched from each other, and the color palette is so disparate that it's unlikely to be _just_ the lighting. Also, of course, we have the quilted-looking brown gambeson under the banquet armor, versus the weird silvery gambeson that looks almost like nylon/polyester, with the laced-on sleeves (the brown gambeson appears to have attached sleeves, in contrast) that we see under her battle scene armor, which further visually cues the idea that this is a different set of armor. It's particularly jarring in that scene, because it doesn't make sense that her armor is so jarringly different from her troops _and_ from Eist's armor (one would assume, given that the Skelligan people have a sort of Celtic/Viking seafaring culture, the armor he's wearing here would probably be Cintran in make), if it's all made by craftsmen of the local styles.
I wonder if the shoulder pieces are a different material than the chest piece and so reflect light differently causing to appear to be a different set of armor when it's actually the same with different gambeson underneath.
I agree. I think it’s covered in mud, in warm lighting, and probably colour graded differently too. The gambeson under the “gold” armour is also laced at the arms, although it’s harder to see. When I look at the pictures, I can’t find a single difference other than the supposed colour
I also found a gif where she’s carrying her helmet under her arm, and it’s definitely the same helmet and also appears silver but dirty. Possibly the material of the breastplate reacted differently with the mud than the material of the spaulders and helmet
@@georgiagrace1014 Mud wouldn't be that consistent, though. Even if she'd fallen belly-flop into a puddle, the human body and that armor are not flat planes, so there wouldn't be an even coat turning all of the cuirass a uniform brassy color. It would be on the most forward parts, with spattering and dripping onto the rest, leaving clean patches that would be the same steel color as the spaulders, if that were the case.
Also, mud would either look wet if it was _incredibly_ fresh (like, she hit said puddle just before she reached the castle), or would be drying and visibly starting to flake/crumble off if it was from during the conflict. There's nothing visual about the armor that presents as "coated in enough mud to dull and change the color drastically", and there _are_ some very distinct splatters of blood in various places that wouldn't be that clear if it was atop a layer of mud. Indeed, most of what she's covered in is blood spatter, with a few smudges of dirt here and there on her face...but not enough of either to explain the color difference of her armor.
It also doesn't look like tarnish (and I'm not 100% certain steel tarnishes; I think it might just rust), and I'd hope it wasn't rust (as who in their right mind would wear rusted armor to a battle? Why the heck would a _queen_ have armor that had gone rusty?), but there's not a lot that makes sense.
I am bothered by the "seam" down the middle of her chest, like, a sword would definitely catch on that. Also, between scenes she looses her neck protection.
Calanthe's armor reminds me of the plastic toy armor I had as a kid that you could buy in any toy store that was flat, rigid, uncomfortable, and ill fitting. I can't recall the amount of times I got annoyed by the armor constantly moving around when moving my arms, hitting my lower jaw when bending over, and plainly restricting my movement. When my tolerance for the damned armor had ran out I simply ditched for a sword and shield style which instantly increased my enjoyment of those toys roughly by 1 million percent.
My headcannon on the trashy nilfguard armor in S1 is that it's a manufactured cloth covering that looks the same over plate or a gambeson. So having your entire force equipped in it messes up enemy scouting. Is it a platoon of auxiliary? Or a seasoned band of veterans? Or is this a field of scarecrows in armor? No way to tell without getting closer.
I've been playing blade and sorcery(a vr swordfighting game) and for the first time I realized how pointless armor is if you don't have a helmet
Re: the gold armour. I always thought it was because she was ‘the lioness’ - a golden animal
Haha. You reacted to "CONTEXT" like Dug from "UP" getting distracted by "SQUIRREL!" And the cameo was SUPER easy to identify. Bernadette Banner. She was the girl in the green dress whispering in the ear of Calanthe. Also, EDIT: I disagree with the back of the amour theory because nobody decorates the back of the armour. Nary a relief in sight on the backs of armours.
11:00 IIRC gold and cyan are Cyntra's colors, and also Calanthe is referred to as "The Lioness", so yeah, it would absolutely makes sense for her to have golden armor, at least for the book Calanthe.
the Random CONTEXT from matt made me jump lol. love him and you.
I really enjoy these videos where you look at movie armour and hope to see more of them. In between your armour making and stage fighting videos.
The gold armor on a battlefield would be useful. It identifies the commander very easily.
It also identifies the person to take down! And if someone is looking to gain golden armor, they'll beeline to that person.
@@annbrookens945 I think you're thinking in terms of modern conflicts where we have an abundance of accurate ranged weapons that are good at piercing armour, as even as late as Waterloo we know that officers wore really obvious fancy hats so everybody knew who the boss was, (IIRC in a lot of European conflicts the commanders on both sides often also discouraged targeting opposing commanders due to not wanting it to happen to them, in game theory terms it's a good example of the 'prisoners dilemma' ).
This video was both interesting and informative...and it was done quite nicely, as are all of your videos. I do not watch The Witcher yet still needed to hear your opinion of her armor. You are right, it sucks in a multitude of ways. Cheers!
Your videos are always fun and informative. Keep on keeping on.
7:21 That noise just made my day
7:00 Parry this you filthy casual!
Always good to have a new video from you Jill. And I love your tier list.
Love Calanthe, love your videos, and I looove learning about armor!
Thank you Jill, entertaining and informative as always!
I would also imagine that using a backplate as a breastplate would be remarkably uncomfortable, because the central vertical ridge on a backplate is concave as opposed to the convex ridge on a breastplate.
Great video! Commenting for the 0s and 1s.
Matt just popped in at the beginning of your video! You just never know where that guy is going to pop in! Love the video.
I have no idea why this appeared in my recommendations, but this turned out to be one of the most fascinating videos I've ever watched. That's an instant sub, cannot wait to start checking out the rest of the channel.
Thank you Jill, the answers are yes and yes, so educationally entertaining and entertainingly educational
Okay so I’ve seen you go over a ton of armor and some ‘not really armor’ … but is there a person you could collaborate with to design a suit of armor for your self? One that checks all of the boxes?
Yes and I suspect it would be tax deductible as a business expense if used to make episodes around.
"Breathing is a unisex thing" - Jill Bearup, 2022
Hey just wanted to say watching your armor videos taught me a lot about armor! I recently had to somewhat loosely translate a real, human armor set to fantasy pegasus armor and the client loved the result! Thank you for your wonderful informative content
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for making this video. I hope that it becomes a bit of a quick reference for costumers wanting to make sure to tweak their plate armor into sensibility.
One of the underlying principles of film, TV, and stage armor is *remember it's a costume*. If it looks cool, it works :-) (Think of Queen Amidala's bizarre ceremonial garb and hair style.)
oh cool, a new uncanny valley
I see what you mean about the chest armor not being too flat, so a hit's kinetic energy doesn't shoot right into your vital organs. I suddenly remembered how one of the Vikings in "The 13th Warrior" died after a club caught him squarely in the chest. The strike didn't penetrate his armor, but he's soon spitting up blood.
While not really a good reason, I suspect the desire to avoid any impression of "boob plate" was that there was a desire to emphasize a lack of femininity in her armour.
10:19 is a huge quibble I have with Game of Thrones, specifically Tywin and Jaime Lannister. They are the richest and most powerful lord in Westeros and his son respectively, they should have access to full plate armor, like what Brienne of Tarth wears before S4, that is gilded head to toe like that Henry VIII suit at 10:47. Instead they have to make do with beaten leather breastplates, no mail and only pauldrons and gauntlets like a common Lannister grunt with a few extra steps. Honestly the only mark of distinction Tywin has is the brilliant red cloak he wears in S2.
To me, the silver looked more like armor made for Calanthe, and the gold looked more like it was inherited. As if the gold was sort of making do with what was on hand.
I really enjoy your videos, so thank you very much for making them when I saw that armour. Well I know nothing about it. I did think it was odd and then I thought it’s almost like she’s wearing it instead of a normal tunic. She was raised as a warrior queen, so wild that armour is an absolutely practical. It gives the impression if that makes any sense.
Uther's armor from "Excalibur", and the point that if they can do it well back then, they should be able to do it well today
I liked it for her character... the flat plate made her perpetually look like she was breathing in her shoulders rather than expanding her diaphragm... angry, nervous or defensive breathing. A looming bearing with bated breath.
Given everyone else felt like they were uncomfortably and nervously mirroring her it worked for me. Especially giving the ridiculous freedom she had for her arms compared with her chest/breathing.
Can happily shake a fist in anger... but can't breath freely. It fits her.
Thanks for a great video.
As someone with disproportionately skinny arms I feel called out by your comment on the boxy torso.
Thanks for covering this. When I watched the show that armor always bothered me and didn’t know why it didn’t look right.
On snow white's armor, I instantly connected it with jousting armour. One arm is seemingly overdone whilst the other isn't. Mind you I have not seen the film, but I'd bet they modeled it thusly
I really hope you look at the armor from the game. Especifically the Witcher Gear from each school. They have various characteristics to match their styles.
I.e: The School of the Cat is about assassins so their gear is mostly leather and pretty light favouring mobility. The School of the Bear is about, well... Skellige. So their gear is heavy and makes you look like an old monster killing veteran.
And a lot of Larpers actually wear honest to god bloody metal armour… and they‘re serious about their armour too. And let me tell you, when you‘re in naught but a light dress and are chased across a field for about half a kilometer by a 6ft something guy built like a brick sh****house in Full plate you get a whole new appreciation for it
Hey, the joins in the gambeson is one of best things in the costume. Until quite late in middle ages, sleeves were joined like this to the clothes.
I kind of want another video where you DO get yourself started on mail!
6:26 I would absolutely love to get you started
The Cuirass brings up a whole other point that a lot of what is framed aesthetically as fantasy based in the middle ages actually has more in common with the early modern period.
Both I love your work.
The budget for costmes all went to Geralts gear. Remember, henry wears those out in a single episode, apparently
Having your analyses not just historical accurately but also that someone has to using the armor for severe hours and also act and also to fight and that the mere act of put the armor is time consumer and that there is a budget in the show, it's very interesting, because few people remember this or has the background to know how it really is, and are all little details that have an affect in the end.
I don't know to much about this stuff but I do know what my eyes see. I have seen cosplayers make some dang fine looking armor out of various types of foam. I saw one set at a con and it wasn't until the guy wearing it did a back flip that I realized it wasn't actually metal. Why not use those materials for non combat scenes then use the metal for a fully kitted out set for battle scenes? Instead of 3 set of mediocre trash, have two passable low budget, hyper realistic, and one set of actual real armor. Or would it cost about the same to get craftsman to make the fake armor? I don't know.
Some say if you wave a spadroon around your head while saying context three times you can summon Matt Easton.
So glad when the backplate comment was heard - my first thought was that her head was on backwards or the armour was