Streamer Shoot Out 2 (inc. Wiim Mini, Bluesound Node, Argon Audio Solo, & Primare NP5 Mk2)
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- #streaming #audiophile #ArgonAudio
A Shoot Out of 7 streamers going through features, use and sound quality with my immutable humour and fun and high production values.
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Product Links:
Wiim Mini - wiimhome.com/Overview
Arylic S10 - www.arylic.com/products/s10-w...
Polyvection DAC32 - www.vortexbox.co.uk/shop?stor...
Octavio Stream - www.octavio.fr/stream/
Argon Audio Solo - argonaudio.com/products/solo?...
Bluesound Node 2021 - www.bluesound.com/products/node/
Primare NP5 Prisma Mk 2 - primare.net/product/np5-prism...
Equipment Used in Review : PMC Twenty5.23 speakers, Buchardt S400 Mk 2 Speakers, KEF LS50 Meta Speakers, Hegel H390 Integrated Amplifier, Kinki Studio EX-M1+ Amp, Innuos Zenith server / streamer, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Chord Qutest DAC, RME ADI-2 DAC FS, Denafrips Pontus 2 DAC, Silent Angel Bonn N8 Pro Switch. Silent Angel Forester F2 LPSU For switch.
TIME CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:06 WiiM Mini
2:31 Arylic S10 Pre Amp / Streamer
4:18 Polyvection DAC 32
6:02 Octavio Stream
8:21 Thoughts of the first four - Comparisons
11:12 Argon Audio Solo
14:48 Bluesound Node
19:12 Primare NP5 Prisma Mk2
22:55 Feature Comparisons of last three and summing up
23:41 Thanks for watching / RIP Liz!
Notes:
**1 COMPARISONS OF UNREVIEWED GEAR : Please don't ask me how a product compares to another which I haven't reviewed, as it isn't possible to comment on such products I haven't tested. Check out my website for reviews of products I have completed instead (hit the review tag, and separate tags).
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**3 ABUSE POLICY : I encourage and like debate, and constructive criticism, but people who abuse or troll me, or my subscribers or commenters, post very negative and non constructive and uncorroborated comments designed to put me or others down (where they don't explain themselves), or they could be perceived as such, as well as aggressive comments / hate, or pit my subscribers against me, get their comments removed and I hide them from commenting again. I don’t need the hassle of these people for all the work I put in! I don’t mind people who disagree with me, where they explain, but I tend to delete comments that are not substantiated where the poster doesn’t explain themselves eg just ‘this amp is really bad compared to x’ as it undoes the work I do. - Věda a technologie
Please be so kind to read before commenting
1) If you like what I do or want system/buying advice, please consider donating via CZcams super thanks, Patreon, or Paypal as it's hard to make a living from audio reviews.
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Hi Where is the deal for Cyrus one cost
The chart that you created at 11:00 is golden. Helped me to recognize that none of these have what I consider to be the essential elements that a streamer needs.
Best reviews, and video production, of any YT Audio Reviewer. I really appreciate your approach and grounded stance on seeking great audio on an average modest budget. Your video and post production computer effect work is very very good. Thank you for being thorough, and pretty funny to boot!
Thanks too, that’s what I’m trying to develop as I get most enjoyment out of it and as hifi companies don’t really respect reviews - Darko, tarun, Robinson and Gutenberg etc just shilling products and big turnover of products. I think it gets the numbers but do people seriously think that stuff is credible to buy. At least I’m doing these videos to develop skills. I wonder what skills these shills have.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 that explains why you only see them do the same exact products as some 58 other reviewers! For such a huge industry, it's bizarre how you see all the same products reviewed, which is a true shame.
I bought the WiiM and I’m totally happy with it. Using the optical connection on my Technics SU - G 700 M2 and it sounds fantastic.
Awesome job Simon! You helped me settle on a NODE versus a more expensive Lumin transport. I added a PD Creative power supply upgrade and an SBooster LPS and they all sound great as a whole. I don’t foresee changing the streaming end of the system for a long while.
Nicely placed together video plus a comedy line bonus on the side is nothing to complain about, I am learning more of this streaming idea thanks for sharing your video
Thank you for drawing my attention to the NP5. It's the device I was looking for. Does one job and does it elegantly.
Thanks so much for the donation Ralph. I’d also check out eversolo dmp -a6 - it’s a beast
Another great video, with fantastic reviews and side by side comparisions, thank you.
Thanks Neil 😀👍 got another interesting one coming up!
Your videos are really well done. Thank you.
You’re videos are class. Extremely informative with dry humour 👏🏻
Thanks Neil.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 I’ve followed all the hype and have already got a Wiim Mini on order. I’ll use the optical output to link it to a NJC Audio Reference DAC, also on order. I hoping this will be an improvement over the USB output of my MacBook Pro into a Cambridge DacMagic 100.
Such a helpful review - thank you so much!!
Thanks Dan 😀
🤔 A TRUE REVIEW .. .who would think 🤔 from you …I WOULD EXPECT NOTHING ELSE …with entertainment to boot 😁💚💚💚
First class content. Thank you.
Just what I am looking for, this review. Thanks
Thank you for your heartfelt observations.
The popping sounds via USB on the Bluesound is a Roon/Bluesound issue. It is not an issue if Tidal or Qobuz is used through the BluOS app or Tidal Connect. It is also not an issue using Roon as long as coax or optical is used.
This info is based on online research, not first hand experience. May be helpful to some people.
Thanks Aussie. I agree using coax and optical is fine , thanks for comments for others benefit.
HI simon, great video again.
I use the Denon Heos Link HS2 (£350) as a transport, plays 24/192 and the app covers a good number of streaming providers. Very happy with sound quality and the Heos app OS.
I also use an old chromecast music puck with an optical output when I use CZcams music to find those rare albums (usually 80s British little known stuff) which aren't available through the big name streaming providers.
I use the WIIM Mini with a Chord Mojo via optical & use a power bank to power both. Also run my Cd transport into the MOJO, so very flexible little package 🙂
It could be interesting to review a couple of streamers that have a Femto reclocker. Recently I upgraded with a Ifi Zen Streamer incl. a higher quality power source and it improved soundstage, depth, instr separation and precision together with extended freq response to a complete next level. Saving a bit longer and go for this kind of quality is definitely worth it.
Auralic altair?
Another great no bull review Simon, keep up the great work.
Thanks Stu, hope you are doing ok in Oz and yoir dog 🐕 is doing ok.
Just added a WiiM mini to my setup, feeding an old Naim DAC.
The price to functionality ratio of the WiiM makes a mockery of many a product on the market.
All it really needs is an extra USB port for better external DAC compatibility, or connection to USB storage and it would be nigh on perfect.
Here's hoping for a WiiM Pro Plus with more connection options!
I know that I'm a bit late to the party, but as I am a streamer only guy, I really LOVED this review. Fantastic detail and delivery. I enjoy your reviews very much! Thank you! I hope you get to review the WiiM Pro that is coming out soon. I currently have a Node 2i and recently purchased a WiiM Mini. I love them both and consider the Mini to be a STEAL of a product, so long as you have a decent DAC to stream to. I'm currently using the DAC that is built into my Marantz PM7000N, which sounds really great. (I know the PM7000N has HEOS built into it, but HEOS is a train wreck!!!!). Adding the Node 2i was a huge stress relief as it has a MUCH better UI than HEOS and it is stable. I bought the Mini because it was such a great deal and am in awe at how great it is for the money. God bless!
The quality of your videos is next level, and it's getting even better with every clip you release.
I wish you included the CXN V2, but the comparison is awesome nonetheless.
Me2, CXN V2
I’ve got the cxn v2 still, I’ll try and remember to make a comparison to it when I do another video on the Argon which I’m planning to do. The digital output is just the same as the node, pretty much, but when you use the analogue outputs as I said in streamer shoot out 1, when I included the cxn ver2, the Cambridge is the better. But I wonder how much better than the argon, if anything. I think the primare will be the better transport to the cxn but if you are buying the cxn you are probably buying it to use the dual mono DACs it uses. Hope helps.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 I'm sure the Argon is a better transport, but the Wolfson DAC in the CXN V2 is a great sounding device imho, way better than the Node. Sometimes I even prefer it to the AKM chip in my H190.
Great video again. I am going to try the Limetree bridge after have bought the Limetree phono, and pair it with my Denafrips Ares 2…let’s see
Thanks for another quality review. Would like to see a comparison between BluOS products; Node vs NAD C658 to see what a difference the improved DAC and a preamp makes within a family.
I use a Node 2i into a Marantz SA12SE SACD player, utilising its DAC. If using an external DAC you don't need an expensive streamer.
Great overview, thanks. You left out that on the Arylic S10 you have a DSP that can be wildly tuned with the ACPWorkbench tool (USD 20 extra, PC-only software that interfaces via USB). Parametric EQ, sample rate changes on several interfaces, attenuation settings, dynamic compression curve, stereo widening, all kinds of stuff. Ideal to compensate for room modes and make your bass output much cleaner.
Also great to give a warm sounding speaker more sparkle or to make an analytic speaker a bit warmer.
Thank you, I was bound to leave something out with 7 streamers but I’ll have a play with that. 😀
Nice review. Liked and subscribed. What I missed (it may be my fault or it may be in the previous videos you mentioned) is if the higher category is better in sound quality compared to the cheap one whenever used as “transport only” into your RME or Pontus II.
Got the Primare yesterday.
Connected it to the Topping e50.
I am amazed how good it is.
I was using Wiim Mini before this.
It improved the sound in every possible way.
The sound got fuller with better resolution, soundstage and separation.
The app is a bit lacking, but the sound quality is maybe worh the trouble.
Liking todays humour Simon. 🙂
Review is quality as well
... I connected my new £60 Arylic S10 over WiFi to my Rega Brio amp and it sounds bloody amazing!!! ☺️👍 ...
Thanks Simon! Was quite fond of my Argon SOLO until 2 hours ago.
Your hint (NP5) made me think, and my HiFi dealer got one for me.
Unfortunately, it sounds MUCH better than the SOLO -- did 2 hours of A/B-ing now with Qobuz streaming, no doubt.
I would even go so far that at least for me, the difference is well above the forget threshold.
OK, now this is sad.
While my Venus II is unhappy with the Argon's (more jittery...?) feed and sound better with NP5 input, the RME ADI2 does not care. No audible differences with the RME, no matter if the stream comes from NP5 or Solo.
@@medonk12rsHow are you using the RME2, with headphones or with a stereo? I used the RME in my stereo setup as well but found that, although it is quite detailed, it killed much of the soundstage, at least of my system. I recently got an R2R ladder DAC from my retailer to try it out, it only took 2 days of listening before I switched to that.
@@TheMMadmaXX ... still have the RME, but it sees no serious use.
I got a DDC for the DAC, and an old Auralic Aries streamer.
Just yesterday I connected to RME again to my stereo - it is not bad by any stretch, but as you wrote its sound staging (also also juiciness, grunt and toe-tapping factor) is no match for the Auralic+Denafrips frontend.
That having said, comparing a 1k DAC to a 5k DDC+DAC combo is maybe a little unfair.
... for my Audeze Headphones the RME is fine, but I'm rarely listening with cans.
About time we had a range of plug and play budget streamers which don't require having an engineering degree to set them up. Isn't the DAC used the king maker ?
THANKS SIMON 🤗 for posting this 🤩🧐😎💚💚💚
The WiiM is exactly what I was looking for! Ive tried a few budget streamers. All have failed to match the Node on my main system. Was not willing to spring for another Node on my home office. The mini was on sale at Amazon with same day Prime delivery. This closed the deal. Took all of 10 minutes, with the update, to start listening to Tidal. Running it through my DAC, Schiit Modi3. MQA doesn’t matter since I’m not critically listening, but sounds fine on a vintage Arcam A-9 amp driving Triangle Titus EX speakers. Tested it on the native app and Tidal connect. Both are fine. But I hope they add Radio Paradise and Sirius XM to the app which would make it almost a Node killer. Maybe Lenbrook will take notice and come up with a more affordable entry streamer. BTW one of my other streamers was a B-Fi, by the same company. The interface was a total disaster so it’s sitting in my tech (junk) closet.
Trying ieast audiocast m50 👍
I have recently discovered an aftermarket upgrade for the Node power supply. I caught some videos and some buzz on the forums. The opinions are very consistent that it's with it's fairly modest price. The company is PD Creative in Poland. The upgrade for my third grnrtstion Node was $98 shipped. Add in a linear power supply from China (Where else) for another $100 and you have your upgrade. If you have 240 mains, PD has their own linear power supply for a total of about $230 for the complete kit. The installation appears to be very easy. I admit to being a DIY sucker so here goes. I hope it improves my Blue Sound Node.
This is my attitude…. If it works for you on listening I say all power to you, but bear in mind a) can linear psus improve or just change the sound b) would Bluesound not be selling you a linear psu? And c) is bias working for small improvements.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 I guess I'll find out. Everything is made to a price point for a place in the marketplace. If Bluesound did everything they could to improve their unit, it would be a Lumina. Keep it all in perspective, it's a hobby.
I will definitely have a look at the Wiim Mini. Great presentation standard. Thank you.
I see a lot of reviews and comments about the Bluesound Node, a few about the Powernode, but pretty much never about the Bluesound Vault.
It' basically a Node with a 2tb hard rive built in.
It was exactly what I was looking for to get away from the wireless connect I had used for maybe 12 years with a Squeezebox Duet.
Having copied all my music to the Vault and had to change some of the artwork as it was too big, and having been all thumbs with the operating system simply being different to Logitech Media Server... I LOVE it.
Obviously this wasn’t a server with streamer shoot out, but I can see the utility of the Vault. Enjoy. 😀🔉
@@13thnotehifireviews7 yes I didn't mean to imply it should have been included.
Thanks for the LAGOM Plus review :)
I use and love the Arylic S10 and A50. Wiim also works well for me streaming into Topping E30. Finally I use the Ifi Zen Stream in my office room. I faced a lot of drop-out issues you mentioned initially. Sound quality was great though. Strange thing is that all the issues went away after a few weeks. I didn’t change anything. Just left the Zen Stream always on and connected to wifi. Somehow it just sorted itself out. Now I have zero dropouts and 100% streaming reliability. Can anyone help explain how does this happen?
Well planned and orchestrated video - thanks!
My Node 2i works great. The app works flawlessly on my Surface laptop, A8 tablet and iPhone. I stream Tidal frequently and have the Node digital out into a McIntosh MX-122 and the RCA outs into a Rupert Neve RNHP headphone amp. I run Focal Celestee and Meze 99 Classics and I'm very happy with the setup on both ends.
Does anyone have any experience with an external DAC upgrade for the Node 2i that REALLY makes a noticeable difference? Thanks!
I have the same amp and wanted to see what you recommend for streamer in the $800-$1000 range and plays with Qobuz well. I have a nice DAC so just needing a good streamer.
Great video. Quick question.
.... What exactly is "Chromecasting" and how does it apply to music streaming?
Thanks a lot.
It's incredible how multilayered these reviews are. There are almost parallel scripts going on ending in meaningful points and the again... A delight to watch when what I was looking for was info on the Argon solo :)
I currently listen to CD and Spotify premium via CCA, it's optical output feeding an smsl Sanskrit 10th v2. Do you think I would get superior sound via the Argon solo?
Txs very much in advance.
Thanks very much
First of all, great job! Cant stop watching your channel. Dont know if this is the right forum for this question but I have tried a few Facebook groups and online and I have also tried emailing Wiim themselves. I have two new Wiim Minis but neither of them can handle "upgraded" optical cables, they just wont stay in the opticial out. Obviously the little thin cable that comes with does snap in place but not the better ones I have tested snap in. I tried Supra Zac, Chord C-lite and Atlas Element.
Have you tried a cable that fits that you can recommend?
Again , thanks for an awesome channel!!!
I own 2 iFi Zen Streams and have zero network issues with them. With linear power supplies, they sound better than anything else I've tried.
It’s odd how it’s even Steven’s. I suspect ifi know why.
just connect the Wiim Mini to a good dac and you don't need anything more. It has gapless tidal connect.
Better than the expensive streamers like Lumin, Aurender and Auralic?
I wish that statement was true. I was under the impression all steaming transports were equal..but it's just not true. I have personally in my home tried around 10 different streamers as transports with the same dac under the $1200 range. For the majority there isn't much of a difference between budget streamers..but there are differences. WiiM is definitely one of the best buys out there, sound is good, the software is very good in my opinion. There are better sound quality streamers though..better presentations between and beyond the speakers as well. My opinion anyway
@@NosEL34And witch streamer can you recommend as the best sounding transport? Now I‘m using Ifi zen stream with LPS, have tested an DMP A6 (coaxial out) and was amazed. But the DMP A6 had problems with airplay and lipsync (yes I need this function too) so I returned it. Now I‘m searching for another great transport witch brings me an upgrade. (Oh and I haven‘t had any issues with the zen. I think the provided power supplies are to weak but that is only my opinion.)
@@familiep5021I've tried the Node, WiiM, Zen stream, B&W Formation, Cambridge CXN2 & MXN10, Arcam SA30's streamer, and the Primare Prisma. Some Pi based streamer as well. My opinion would be the Zen Stream and the Prisma with LPS for best sound quality. The Arcam is good too but the one I used was based in a $2k plus integrated. Your Zen stream is pretty great for the money. The difference between that and the Prisma is the Prisma maybe has a little more space in the upper frequencies. Bass is strong on Prisma too. Whether someone thinks the Prisma is better may just be different preferences in sound. I don't have both on hand to really break 'em done vs each other. I'm going off memory and notes I kept on the 2 Zen streams I've had. I sold the Zen when I got a Prisma. A better power supply makes a positive upgrade for both these streamers. I feel if you really want an upgrade from your Zen we will have to try some costlier units by Innuos, Aurrender, Auralic and maybe Lumin. All of this is just my opinion, with my gear, and no experience with the higher end models. One thing that may seem interesting is the 2 that I think sound the best are transports only..no internal dacs. I haven't heard the Eversolo's but it seems they sound pretty good. I've heard good things of Halo Red too.
Thanks!
Have you used Roon Nucleus with Bluesound Vault?
@@peterking9943 thanks so much for the donation Peter. I haven’t used those two together tbh. Personally I’d advocate a home built Roon server over the nucleus as it’s just an intel NUC. I’d rip to the Roon servers hard drive from a pc into it and use a decent end point Roon ready streamer. Not sure if you can use the vault rips into Roon, as it’s not acting as the core but simply a streaming end point and then the rips will just work when you use the bluesound bluos software but that would be doubling up what Roon does. A Roon core with a hard drive built in makes the most sense then a really good streamer like the primare np5 mk2.
I really appreciate your videos and as I am looking at buying a streaming transport, I was interested in the Primare. May I ask how you connect to your RME Dac, which I have. Thank you.
Thanks Roger, just use one of its digital outputs - coax RCA or optical with an appropriate cable (coax digital cable or optical toslink) because the RME has the same cable inputs. I used a coax digital cable - Chord Anthem or clearway I use.
How does the Primare compare in pure sound quality terms to the Wiim, both used as transports? I use Qobuz.
Thanks Simon. Not much use for budget streamers but always get a kick out of your videos. I use MINIDSP SHD. Love it
Thanks very much Dennis. It’s quite uplifting when I get comments like yours.
Can anyone confirm if the Primare Prisma app supports folder view when using a local USB thumb drive?
Maybe you could try using the node with Tidal connect to see if you still hear the clicks, and Tidal via the BluOS app instead of Roon, It would be interesting to know the result. I had considered trying a Holo Spring but obviously won’t if it’s incompatible with Tidal. Was your result only via USB or did coaxial and optical also have this issue?
Would be happy to advise on that but…….
HI , nice video. If I use basic £200 DAC with the Wiim will the volume up and down still work? I know is an optical out so I didnt think it would
yes, you can turn vol control on or off as per your requirement
One hint at the Argon Audio Solo:
This device is feeding my DAC via SPDIF. After getting seeing remarks about power supply impact on streamers, I tried to different alternate power supplies: The Topping P50 and the Ifi Power 2.
The Topping P50 did not do any good, but didn't make things worse in comparison the Argon Audio Solo's own power supply.
The Ifi Power 2 though did -- and quite considerably so!
Ifi i power 2 (smps) is better than topping 50 linear? Did you try ifi iPower X?
@@pfcompany885 no, did not try the iPower X.
... but... tried something else. See other comment. 🙈
@@pfcompany885 No, did not try. If the Power X uses the same technology as the Power 2, could only be better, I guess!
great overview and categorisation pf the streamers. and great entertaining presentation 😃👍 man thanks. ...one little correction: at 23:00 min the Argon Solo does not support Tidal Connect. ...I asked Argon exactly about this, and they replyed, no Tidal Connect, and not planned for the moment. ...pity.
Thanks for saying, I said it right but I must have put a tick in the wrong box . Annoyed at that as I did check it , obviously not enough!
@14:18 I almost died laughing... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had to do a chemistry joke lol.
Tack!
Thanks for the small donation.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 As I understand it the Node USB is the best digital output in this test. I now have a node 2, a Volume Rivo, and a Node (130) with upgraded psu on its way. And I might get a Wii pro or plus. Im selling my Rivo because connection issues and I only use Spotify atm. The connection reported issues of zen puts me off, I would only use wired though
Considering sound Q, app and stability, which one will be the winner if you have to guess? (DAC PS audio link III) (underrated)
Thanks!!
I do this on patreon now. Cheers
For streaming the sound quality is secondary to the app in my opinion....if the app is poor you won't enjoy using it regardless of how good it might sound which is why the Bluesound wins as not everyone wants to shell out for Roon.
Imo, you can use aftermarket apps with the primare like mconnect and bubble upnp or Audirvana or jriver with the solo, which are equally as good on the score of searching music as the bluos interface.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 maybe true but not everyone wants the hassle of using (or paying for) 3rd party software...bluos is pretty much plug and play and doesn't require host software on a pc.
@@barneyrubble9309 I don’t see any hassle as some of it is free and very good, or little cost. It depends whether the buyer wants better sound quality or less features over the app or slightly lower sound quality and a better app.
In the Node Settings under Audio, here is the Audio clock trim function - did you try that when getting the clicks when streaming from Roon?
I did thanks
Thank you , for the great video , how would you compare h390 internal streamer to these?
I’ll try and cover that in another vid if I remember 😀👍
Hi Simon great video have you come across the stack audio link 2, I have been using for the past year with no issue and it was a good upgrade for the price,
Thanks very much. I haven’t tbh, someone mentioned the magna one with i2s outs and I might try that one.
Wow very comprehensive..! Looked at primare mk1, assume MK2 solved the gapless issue
Thanks Will, Yeah I think it's only in certain use cases as I stated in the table as obviously in certain uses you get Gapless anyway eg Roon. I think Chromecasting still doesnt offer gapless but tbh I'm not much of a frequent CC user. :)
@@13thnotehifireviews7 Is it gapless with Tidal? Thanks
@@REX4340 No it isn't gapless with Tidal if used with Chromecast. Primare has promised support for Tidal Connect but until that is available the only way to get gapless is using Tidal with Roon.
Lumin U2 mini is nice too
An excellent video, I have subscribed! I have recently modernised my Cyrus 2 and Cyrus 780 set up (1991 vintage!). I have a Cyrus HD, like you, at a bargain end of line price, and Dali Oberon 5 floor standers. I am streaming from my phone via a Chromecast Audio connected to a digital input on the Cyrus HD. What would be an affordable upgrade on the DAC in the Cyrus amp? I am planning on getting the Wiim Pro when it finally arrives.
Thank you. Personally I’d do other upgrades but further advice is patreon only now.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 ok cheers
Been waiting 18 months for new features and an software update from Primare for the Mk1 streamer. It sounds good but don't buy one if you expect regular updates. It won't happen.
Can’t you just sell it and get the mk2 if it’s easier to get all that. Prob won’t cost much to change ?
@@13thnotehifireviews7 it's a common sense suggestion. But I'm put off the brand now.im watching your video on the look out for better alternatives.
That's one big plus on thw wiim mini. I've had it for a few months and it's had lots of updates with improvements and new features. The app is tough to beat actually. Product support is also excellent.
Seriously just get a HQ Player hooked on to those streaming services either in a NUC or a small affordable PC. It's better than having a mad expensive master clock on a high-end DAC.
They have their issues too - it’s about the power supply as well.
If your connecting any of these streamers to the same external DAC, is there any sound difference between them?
I think I commented on that in the video but for further input it’s on patreon. Low cost. Please Check link in description.
Never had an issue with Blusound Node USB out going to a DAC (X-Sabre PRO MQA) - not using ROON. No pops, clips etc.
I think it might just be some r2r Dacs in fairness to bluesound
Hi Simon, If you can say your favourite in comparison Argon solo vs Yamaha wxc-50 and why. Thanks.
I’ll try and cover in a video I’m gonna be doing just on the argon with some 3d graphics as I’ve still got the Yamaha.
A very enjoyable review Simon.Please try to do a review on Auralic,Aurender stremers
Thanks very much. No plans to do that because of high diminishing returns of those types of streamers
@@13thnotehifireviews7 Auralic Aries G1 easily outperforms Primare NP5, I own both
Maybe I missed this but why no Arylic S50?
You only review what you have
I need to get a 2nd streamer for my 2 channel rig and considering: WiiM Pro AirPlay 2 , BlueSound Node 2021, or Holo Red. I also had though about going up to an Ifi Neo Stream or a hifi Rose250 but Ifi doesn't support amazon and the Rose I perhaps wouldn't really get much benefit from. i have external dacs so bypass the onboard ones.
Simon, would you mind sharing which external DACs you uses when comparing the SPDIF output of the streamers in this shootout? The Kinki's internal DAC? Cheers!
Please see all dacs used listed in description. Kinki of course is just an analogue amp - no dac. I’m doing a part 2 apps video at the moment. 😀👍
Does any of these streamers have an USB output to connect a DAC to?
You have to watch it all before you ask that.
what about the squeezebox touch?
How does one buy the ARGON AUDIO SOLO if like me you live in the UK. There is no option to post to the UK on their website.
They don't want to sell to the UK...so stuff 'em!
The most recent update in the wiim mini app also added 10 band eq. I have the wiim mini and the chromecast audio and I'd say that appart from the looks the wiim mini is a lot better. The features alone (not only the physical ones but the app is loaded) makes it a much better product. How would you compare the wiim mini to the solo regarding sound quality on digital outputs alone (spdif)?
Probably not hard too as the cca was about one third the price of the wiim, even with economics of a mass market product with the Google name behind it. 😀🎼
@@13thnotehifireviews7 agreed. just saying I don't think they are that much alike. To me the wiim is a step above in almost all fronts.
I totally agree with you Jose. 😀
@@13thnotehifireviews7 by the way, what's your take on sound quality regarding digital output (spidf) on the wiim mini vs the argon solo? In your video you comment mostly on analog output.
If the Wiim is bit perfect output on the optical, why wouldn't it sound.identical to any expensive streamer like an Aurilic playing typical 16/44.1 Cd rips or streams?
now iFi has introduced an new streamer that included a DAC. most of us who have struggled with the Zen Stream where using an external DAC and where awaiting an Zen Stream MK2 that resolved all the issues associated with its predecessor. instead, iFi has thumbed its nose at us with the release of the NEO Stream. in its arrogance iFi has sold out to the mass market, it is no longer a "audiophile" company
Are you getting the Wiim Pro? A comparison to the Argon Solo would be cool.
I’ve got the solo, you can send me one.
How do you like the Allo Boss2?
Never tried Boss.
Hi, a fine review and much appreciated. In my personal set of priorities, the Argon sounds like the one for me but with one caveat. Might I offer as constructive advice that in future reviews; when notable, commentary on the unit's operating software can be important. As example; the Node's BluOS software is universally applauded and often held out as the 'gold standard' in its price range. Which makes the WiiM's recent OS upgrade of significant importance. 'Randy' @ the CheapAudioman recently reviewed the new upgraded WiiM and reported that he sees the WiiM OS as superior in usability to the BluOS... Given its $99.00 US price VS the Argon's $249.00 US price I cannot but wonder how the Argon's OS compares to the WiiM OS. IF the Argon's OS is inferior to the WiiM's OS that might well swing my choice to the WiiM rather than the Argon. So it would have been most helpful if you had covered that aspect of the two streamers.
PS: as may be obvious, the benefit of using much higher priced gear in evaluating a budget device is in ascertaining its upgrade-ability in future system upgrades. That said, its also useful to know that in a budget compatible system whether there is a difference in fidelity as well. Thanks for that.
Hi Geoffrey , thanks for comments. Fair ones I think although remember how long these take to make (100 hrs) with testing and filming, and inevitably you have to leave things out. Also if you’ve checked these out yourself from other commentary you’ll know that you can use different apps to the ones supplied and argon doesn’t use an app as far as I know. Ie app choice largely comes down to ones people use. I don’t agree with Randy / bluos has more flexible settings. I’ll try and add some comments in an online article with this vid or I might make a part 2 going through the apps as it could be popular. Thanks for suggesting. Cheers Simon
@@13thnotehifireviews7
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I had no idea of the time it takes to put together a video review. That's quite an investment. In your comparison, did you use the upgraded WiiM OS ? Randy mentioned that prior to the recently upgraded OS he preferred the BluOS. I think he did mention that the BluOS still offered features that the WiiM did not but for everyday use he now prefers the WiiM. Different strokes for different folks.
Oh yeah….there is listening and lots of it for 7 products, then scripting, researching, plugging things in and out, writing listening notes over loads of evenings, more scripting, watching all the other reviews to see if any clarification or justification is needed, then filming pieces to camera took 4-5 hours with mistakes. Then I do editing, then the creative shots and titles. Then b roll for this video took all day with filming and editing into timeline. If you are doing it properly it is a time consuming process, that’s why I buzz off the creative parts and being satisfied I’m making a good / best video. Long term it has more value. Also I’m a perfectionist. 😀
The only tragic issue with argon solo is the lack of connectivity, like Tidal Connect...Which is kind of reference in terms of sounds quality.
Well that could be one way of looking at it, but another way as I tend to do is think of the overall quality by other means of playback and then compare that to other streamers that don’t work as well in that respect. So the reference in terms of sound quality is the device not the format/carrier.
@@13thnotehifireviews7
Thanks so much for your answer. Since you reply to me, I would like to ask you opinion about my next purchase. what makes the most sense to invest in:
- WiiM + a good DaC (like Gesheli 2 or Topping E50) = 360€ approx.
- Bluesound Node 2021 = 600€
I hope you can help me understand the difference between these two solutions.
Thank you in advance.
Check out Magna Mano Ultra MkII that has i2s output.
Good call, I was thinking of including one of theirs actually but didn’t have time. Maybe for another vid.😀
I have a Bluesound player, it failed under warranty in Canada, home of Bluesound, so they said send it in and they will replace it. 3 months later I’m still waiting because of “supply chain”.
Keep us updated, if it carries on I could email someone that be able to help.
The usability of WiiM has just made so many other streamers completely obsolete at this point.
I don’t know … I think it’s what your system can reveal - the argon for example sounds better than the wiim but it’s still cheap!
Great review as always, your talents are wasted on us.
Thanks Colum.
Loved your streamer review, I have the bluesound node and quiet happy with it, would you consider the primate against a high quality cd transport / player, I still prefer my Cyrus sig transport over the node.
I think the Bluesound Node is just so dull as a DAC. I've got an ifi Zen blue which sounds so much better than it and it's just blue tooth. The ifi Zen One signature, which is still cheaper than the Node, is leagues ahead in SQ.
I think I’ll agree with you to a fashion. But the skill is in the all rounder I think. Plus best used as a transport.
I've now got a Zen One signature and the Delta gulf in SQ between it and the Node is huge. In fact BT on the Zen One is so good I would argue that you don't need to get a streamer, as long as you are not bothered by notifications coming through on the speakers. I'm not bothered.
Arogon solo no Tidal connect?
You get it via Chromecast!
I incorrectly stated tidal connect in the table I did. Sorry.
I am literary looking for airplay 2 into the mojo is all
I use Wiim Mini into my Chord mojo - it's all you need
Please explain the Forget Test =)
I think I did, what didn’t you understand
@@13thnotehifireviews7 Do you mean the difference in sound quality is so small that you forget it?
Or that you could forget it on listening further even if you can notice a difference
Hi, one quick question:
Bluesound and Aragon, sound definitely better comparé à Octavio?
Is this because of the Dac inside?
1) iFi Zen stream
2) Silent Angel m1t
Merci !
Merci beaucoup too.
This falls into the same trap as ASR streamer reviews--it doesn't focus on the software. Streamers are not, especially budget ones, primarily ROON endpoints. The fact is ROON is an expensive small service that is used by a fraction of Tidal users which is itself a small fraction of all streaming services (Qobuz is even smaller). Roon is useless for Apple Music, Amazon Music, Spotify, and Deezer. In my opinion, the most significant part of the streamer is its software. Is it robust or does it crash, is the interface good, will it be supported in the future or will it be orphaned. This is followed by the quality of the hardware, such as whether or not the hardware can deliver a clean digital signal to a DAC or Receiver, or if it has good connectivity. Finally, if it does have a DAC and that is important to you, the quality of its optional DAC. One reason I have avoided pi based devices is the software is not robust. I am also nervous about high end streamers as well, since they are unlikely to have the resources and base needed to support a good software program.
Please consider what a streamer really is. It is software that accesses music from various services or local storage, that plays on a small computer. Not many people buying a budget streamer are planning on paying for a software license that costs as much as the content when they can get a robust program with their device.
Hold your horses - you obviously didn’t watch part 2, thanks ! 😀 let me know what you think.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 My apologies. Part 2 does a nice job of describing the software. I still believe, however, that ROON is overrated if not a tidal user, and that most individuals purchasing a low cost streamer are not ROON subscribers. That said, what is your opinion regarding software on high end streamers in terms of risk of the software being orphaned?
I don't understand why you would buy a streamer when you could get a mini windows pc that does so much more or a googlechromecast-android device that's way cheaper?
A lot of the time it’s the apps and sound quality are better on the streamers. Also don’t need pricey pc’s in situ. My pc cost £3500 so if I ran it in situ….
@@13thnotehifireviews7 a mini windows pc cost $100 new and is the same size or smaller theirs no sound difference (a file is a file) and you can use whatever app you want
I don't really like the wiim. At least with Spotify, it colors the midrange to the point of being harsh via optical into an external dac. Several other CZcamsrs also found the same using multiple dac's.
Spotify is limited to 44.1khz currently, so I can't compare to a bit perfect connection.
It can’t colour because it’s got an equaliser so your point is moot and invalid.
@@13thnotehifireviews7 So an equalizer invalidates the ability of a device to color the sound? A 10-Band EQ is a great feature, but it only allows one custom setting. Some of us would rather listen flat, and not have to correct colored sound via an EQ first.
I could link you to other hifi youtube channels who had the same observations on forward mids. Mids just sound grating to me on multiple speakers with the WiiM. APT-X HD, direct to my cheapest DAC (Aiyima T8) sounds MUCH more neutral than 44.1khz optical on the WiiM. Unfortunately I don't have another streamer to compare.
Ok but you can’t moan about sound when you can adjust it and plus it only costs peanuts
@@13thnotehifireviews7 Call it what you like, but I'd label myself a purist who sometimes enjoys a more fun sound. Having to EQ back to baseline just to start EQ-ing is a hassle.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't move to recommend a better option instead. There are plenty of other streaming devices with more features. The $99 price point was appealing, which is why I bought it. I do appreciate your review of the others.
I’m sorry mate but you can’t expect the earth for 99 dollars
When doing these reviews would it be worth reviewing the accompanying app as a rubbish app makes a great streamer useless.
Maybe Ron, but there are so many you can use instead of the ones supplied. Personally I think Roon is best, then BluOs, of the ones I’ve tried.
Am i just incapable?
I can't seem to find a cheap solution to stream MQA via Tidal Connect from my phone, without paying a lot for a Bluesound or something with roon subscription 🤷🏻♂️