How We Fail Manic Pixie Dream Girls
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2020
- #JusticeForClaire
Smash that like button using your recently disinfected mouse with meticulously clean hands please.
(and keep as safe and well as possible because I know things are scary but it really is all going to be OK!)
Anyway to distract myself from... *gestures to everything*, I talk about the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope, it's history, and how it both erases and stigmatizes neurodivergent gals who are just being their neurodivergent selves, which according to many who attempt to critique this trope is the worst thing about it.
Song Used:
Wholesome Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, etc. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I'm an autistic manic pixie dream enby gal. But my own, not someone else's!
It's worth mentioning, also, that the rate of autism diagnosis in women/AFAB people is even lower when you factor in race; every face of autism I see in the media is white and male (I had to go online to see other black women/AFABs on the spectrum).
You're absolutely right - I did consider talking about it but I thought it was such an important topic it probably deserves its own video, and I'm not sure if it's one I should make as I don't want to speak over people who are AFAB & a PoC! Thank you for the feedback though, it definitely is an important point to make!
@@ElleFromSunnydale It's something of a catch-22 for the voices of ND PoC, isn't it? There's so little representation because of how difficult it is for PoC to be recognized as ND, but part of why it's so difficult is because of how little representation there is. ND being viewed as a "white boy issue" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
(And to be clear, when I say "boy" in "white boy", I don't just mean male; I mean, more precisely, male children. At least with autism, society still has an incredibly narrow view of what it actually looks like.)
And it’s awful when I’m just being myself and people say that I’m trying to be “not like other girls” and a “manic pixie dream girl” or “quirky”. I was like this before you knew these terms, I was called “weird”, “ret*rded” and “too much” throughout all my childhood, now people say I’m trying to be “cool”, “unique” and liked by men because of these same traits, I’m literally just existing and being myself
Luckily when you’re a furry everyone knows you’re being genuine lol
OMG THIS! It really bugs me when people think I’m trying to be “quirky” or “not like other girls” or say that when I’m expressing the feeling of not fitting in with those around me or always feeling like an outsider. I realised recently I actually do mask the more messy side of myself and show this super bubbly, excitable, “Random” (because of the way I make connections between ideas and concepts that others don’t get and everything to me is relevant and appropriate) and scattered, naive and innocent (due to not understanding social cues) and always having my head in the clouds. All this is true but I present in the way I do to be more digestible to others. And then they get annoyed when I accidentally interrupt them because I don’t know when to speak or get too excited and can’t control my speech or I think they have stopped talking when when they haven’t (also poor volume control) or again my “cluelessness” gets frustrating when I take instructions too literally or can’t do a “simple thing” because of executive dysfunction or because they gave me too vague instructions or when i get distracted mid conversation and get seen as rude. And the biggest thing that people have always found annoying and has alienated most people is talking excessively- to the point where sometimes I physically can not stop talking, they all see it as annoying for them but fail to realise that the noise is sm in my Brain, that I only say 10% of what I think and when they shout at me to shut up or for being “too much” they can go back to their silent Brains, but in mine it’s loud and I shut down and freeze.
There is so much under this, but this whole “not like other girls” idea has turned from fighting misogyny to now being not only inherently misogynistic but also ableist because now it once again makes fun of people who are seen as different for trying to be different?! Like once again now being “basic” is the default and that if you are not that you must be trying to be different. Like I’ve been this way for my entire life and I will be forever be this way, I’ve been bullied for it for most of school. And now people are trying to say that all the emotions I feel because of this (which btw whether I am autistic and ADHD or not- which from research Is very likely but I probably won’t be able to get a diagnosis for a while- I have still struggled with the same things all my life).
But yeah it’s come full circle where now being “basic” is now the default again and anyone who doesn’t fit into that MUST be doing it deliberately. Anyone who doesn’t fit in must be trying to be that way. I felt like I was a literal alien for years, though tbf my head was too much in the clouds to even notice I didn’t really fit in with other kids my age, I mean I had no friends and I knew I struggled with it so I escaped into my own imagination, which is very vivid and always has been. I relate to characters like Jess Day from New girl sm, Luz noceda from the owl house, OMG Maddie Hatter from Ever after high (which is my highest kin) and to see people hate on them for neurodivergent traits (and traits I myself possess and have been made fun of for) hurts or when they call them annoying because they “try too much to be quirky” - because again it Assumes anyone who isn’t “normal” must be trying to be that way because “normal” is the base line. When normal doesn’t exist the whole thing is BS.
13:15 "When I say that the traits of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl are described as too other wordly to actually be real, that's how a lot of autistic women grow up to feel, too. Like aliens".
Damn. That hit home in a major way.
I have undiagnosed autism, diagnosed adhd, CPTSD, and bipolar disorder. Also, I’m attractive. Wasn’t always attractive though. I didn’t start getting attention until I was almost 17. Before I was bullied for being ugly and weird.
Now though, I am attractive. But my behaviors haven’t changed. I was seen as “weird and unlikable” and now I’m “unique, and special.” Every single man I have met or “befriended”, or even dated (only dated 3 people tho, currently with the 3rd) has told me how perfect I was. How I was made for them. How I was different but in a good way. How I was a trophy. They would put me on a pedestal. Have these high expectations. I would try to warn them, but no. That just made them “love” me even more. They thought I was being humble or modest. Or they thought I was some poor girl they needed to protect from the harsh world and I shouldn’t be too hard on myself. They didn’t understand that their expectations were absolutely dehumanizing and put so much pressure on me to remain “their dream girl”. Or god forbid they would start to resent and hate me. God forbid they would grow tired of me and throw me away. God forbid I show the unpleasant symptoms. Or go through my depressive or mixed episodes. Damn near Every man that I’ve spoken to in the last few years have told me they loved me within the first week or two of meeting me. I would tell them how impossible that was since they didn’t know me, they conjured up some idea of me in their heads. And they need to get that out their head before they become severely disappointed a month or so from now. But they don’t listen, they never do.
So now I am stuck in this endless cycle of having these “sadbois” confusing their infatuations with love, and looking to me to give some light in their life. Like I’m their reason to live or I can save them. Fuck that. I don’t want to date anymore. I have dated and befriended different types of men from different social statuses and backgrounds. Races, countries, ethnicities. They all want me to be the woman that saves them…. And I’m sick of it. I resent dating. And after this relationship, I surely am done.
All I can think to say is, you deserve to be respected, seen and loved for exactly who you are, and it's not your fault other people don't give you that because of their own expectations and projections. You're a whole person, flaws and all, and I hope one day you find someone, friend, partner, whoever, that gives you that respect.
I'm dealing with this in reverse. People treated me so good and men were crazy about me until I gained weight and now people think I'm repulsive and weird. It's crazy.
I relate to this and recently gained weight and I’m back to being seen as weird and crazy but it wasn’t that long ago that I was seen as adorable
This explains why, when I presented as feminine, I felt like the only two guys that showed any interest in me viewed me in the same way male characters view manic pixie dream girl characters. They liked the quirks until they got *too* quirky, and found me childlike. I don't know why I never put together that these characters are neurodiverse coded. Thanks for making such a great video
YES i’ve always wondered why ppl never talk about amelie as a manic pixie dream girl
she's such an incredible example of how to take that trope and do her justice!
Hahahahahaha I'm an autistic woman who has always felt awkward about the violent criticism of "manic pixie dream girls" because I relate so closely to those women and I TOTALLY didn't overlook the connection that my affinity for the MPDG stems from their surface-level relation to female neurodivergence. Ha ha. Ha. ... [Homer Simpson backing into hedge.gif] Seriously though, every time someone talks about how they're so unbelievable and inspire violence I feel so invalidated and invisible and I'd never actually thought too hard about why because the whole subject is kinda painful.
Exactly, it's the chill way people casually joke about these characters traits being so annoying they want to hurt them that I find really hard too.
I really appreciate this. When you grow up resembling these kinds of characters (aka being an autistic girl), you get used to being perceived as either "annoying" or "inspirational". As an adult, it has become the most acute for me when dating men, because the man will constantly alternate between these two perceptions without ever learning to see me as a real, complex person.Under their gaze, I am either a muse, or an annoying burden, which leaves me feeling both objectified and unsupported. I'm not here for it.
YES THANK YOU I totally identified with lots of Manic Pixie Dream Girls as an undiagnosed ND teenager, to the meta point where I felt like people didn't really see me and my struggles because I was "quirky" and awkward.
I gotta rewatch Amelie!
In all the ways other films inadvertently reinforce all the negative stereotypes about MPDG's, Amelie does them right because it's all from her perspective! So glad you enjoyed the video!
The movie Touched by Fire has an interesting take on this. Spoilers, but it's about two bipolar people who fall in love and become each other's manic pixie dream girl/boy. They become so fixated on each other that they constantly ignore everyone around them trying to warn them that their relationship is actually incredibly unhealthy for the both of them. They don't realize that neither of them is actually able to "fix" each other, because they're both still struggling with their own emotional regulations.
I know some people read Juno Macguff from the movie Juno as ADHD or autistic. She’s also quirky but is portrayed as strong and is the main character of her story. I also interpret Enid, the main character from Ghost World, as autistic. Her special interest is old blues and rock records, she’s very blunt and doesn’t care about social norms, and she says she doesn’t fit in with 99% of humanity. I find both characters very relatable
This video should get more views, it is so annoying to see people complain about manic pixie dream girl characters because of their traits and not the fact that they're there to "fix" a man!
I am basically an irl manic pixie dream boy, my personality is pretty similar to that. If you take the "manic" part seriously, it could also be someone with bipolar - my girlfriend is both autistic and bipolar and in her hypomanic episodes she does act really cheerful while also still being "quirky" because she is autistic.
Wow, I have never thought about the Manic Pixie Dream Girl like this. Great job explaining the complexity of the term and it's the connection to autism. Also, thank you so much for reaching out. Looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Honestly it's really nice meeting another film essayist who is just starting out! Thank you so much, I appreciate it! X
@@ElleFromSunnydale Yes! I'm so happy to meet another person who is new to this!
Autistic nerd girl here. I have gotten manic pixie dream girled soooooo many times
As a neuronorm straight white guy with no personal relatability to this - I gotta say, this is one of the most interesting, well thought out and profound videos I've seen on youtube in a very long time. Great job and thank you for opening my eyes to a whole new way of seeing the world.
Sooo I've just watched your Hermione video AND this one, and as an autistic person, I can't thank you enough for the nuance and depth you bring to these discussions. I instantly subscribed. Thank you for sharing your voice. Much love from Latin America ❤
It hurts to be so misunderstood
Thank you for saying this!! I strongly relate to these kinda girls, and the only issue is in both fiction and real life manic pixie dream girls are used for people to get their own gratification and character development and then we get discarded when they no longer need our whimsical ideas.
hi, great video, it's nice to see new takes on this topic and thank you for giving us a nice example on how "progressive" readings on tropes and archetypes in media often times carry nasty assumptions.
Also not surprising ND folx would become people pleasers when them being different will get attacked and practices like ABA exist. Literally will get trained to cater to NTs
V true. I've got a lot of thoughts about ABA that I really want to make a video about but I'm still trying to process all my thoughts around it
Thanks for voicing this! I've always felt this way and wasn't properly able to verbalize why. I've always related to these characters and when I initially watched the Cracked video, it upset me and I didn't really understand why. I have severe ADHD and my impulsivity and constant need for outside stimulation definitely makes me manic pixie like. Plus, often I have felt that men have been attracted to me because of those traits, because they feel like I exist to help them or some shit.
Excellent analysis!
The "Free Bird" scene in Elizabethtown is legitimately hilarious, though. It's the only thing I still remember about the movie, honestly---likely because these types of movies have largely come to blur together for me.
como es q esto tiene solo 197 like, merece muchísimo más reconocimiento
its genually a great analisis, this should be totally more discuss, lov it
sorry my english
Ugh, TV Tropes is low-key the worst offender when it comes to... everything....
tv tropes is a jokeee
i've seen tv tropes leaking a streamer's real name, but they used the wrong name lol.
i can’t believe this video doesn’t have more views. this video definitely deserves it
Im the dude version. Only I look like I'm in Black Sabbath, so, people don't expect it.
I remember that i used to joke around a lot saying that the best show that has "maniac pixie girls" was the Netflix series Dirk Gently, because 90% of the characters (regardless of their gender) fit the trope.
rewatching it now I realized that all of the characters are just neurodivergent coded lol
Wow...This is eye opening
Amazing breakdown
Awesome video. I had never heard of this trope, but I definitely have read characters that fit in this trope. It's good that you give writing advice for writing more interesting neurodivergent characters. Keep up the good work.
Also, I stumbled upon your channel from the #nocomradeunder1k on Twitter, so thanks for following me over there 😃
Hey thanks I really needed to see this.
i needed this video thank you
I’m surprised I haven’t seen ruby sparks cause the kid from little miss sunshine is in good films I like also I also like Mpdg
Great video, keep it up!
Thanks! :)
Hello, I am a manic pixie dream uuuuuuuuuh afab genderqueer person...and this video might be the beginning of discovering I'm autistic. Even if it turns out I'm not, thank you.
CoooL
But some girls just have a quirky nature doesn't mean their autistic and yes women can have that type of personality.
I don´t like this trend of pathologizing behaviors. While quirky girls can be autistic/neurodivergent some girls are just quirky and it doesn't necesarily mean they are autistic.
That’s the thing, autistic isn’t a negative pathology.. but the stereotype you viewed in the media is. Neurodivergent is adhd & autistic, both are neurotypes that have traits that are shown in these characters behaviors. It’s not a negative thing to recognize that the traits that they are written to have are actually Neurodivergent and people who are Neurodivergent relate to them, even people who are undiagnosed and don’t know they are adhd or autism relate to them and then later find out that the cause for how they don’t fit in socially in the world is actually because of not knowing they were Neurodivergent
If it barks like a dog, it ain't a cat.