@@JinMeowsoon He could not fit on the board because a man sacrificing him self for a women is a fetish for a lot of people. If you ever have girlfriend ask you "would you die for me?", lie and make a mental note that she is no keeper.
My idea for a deconstruction of a manic pixie dream girl would start off by playing the cliches straight, but as the film goes on, the boy would ask the girl basic questions that she can't answer and he becomes more and more suspicious. Eventually, he finds out that she is nothing more than a figment of his imagination and he's just been hallucinating. It would be like Fight Club, but for romance stories.
The trope is as old as art itself. The Manic Pixie Dream Girl is simply the modern label for the muse, mystical and untouchable female goddesses who inspire the creative energies of artists stuck in listless doldrums.
Oh, I never thought of it this way! Awesome point though, thanks for highlighting this. 😊 I guess in the modern age the struggling "artist" has been replaced by angsty teens/young adults with growing pains. MDPGs hold pretty much the same traits as classic muses, with a new coat of "quirky/indie aesthetic" paint.
Idea: Manic pixie dream girl, but she forces herself to be all “quirky cool uwu” because she’s deeply insecure and terrified of people losing interest in her.
That's how the people who are perceived as Manic Pixie Dream Girls/Guys in real life often feel/act. A good friend of mine seemed like the archetypal MPDG for a good chunk of my teen years, and she actually helped me through a lot of stuff, in a way not dissimilar from the movies. Unlike in those movies though, I eventually learned that she had a lot of issues and insecurities herself. She simply used her bubbly, exuberant behaviour to shield herself from the things that might hurt her.
@@rarazalproductions519 Still, it would be nice to see it in film. The reality is that just like men who are eccentric, eccentric females are often highlighting one aspect of life to hide another. I’ve seen it sometimes expressed in film, but often they are the companions of the boring side character who has to watch them break down. I want to see a film tackle what it’s like to BE the actual eccentric quirky girl who’s got allot of shit and baggage, kinda like new girl but starker and realer.
Teenage me feels personally attacked. I spent a lot of my teenage years trying to figure out what "interesting" meant, and then trying to be whatever I thought that was. Once I got out of high school, I realized that the "real world" required a bit more conformity and then rubber banded and spent my early 20s being bland and boring and wondering why I had no friends. It took till my late 20s to really start settling down and now that I'm in my mid 30s, I'm happily at a point in life where I can be "myself" because I eventually more or less figured out who "myself" is. It just took a lot of letting TV, movies, and other people dictate who I thought I was "supposed to be" to get there. Honestly, I'm still light on the amount of "close friends" I have (and Covid makes socializing a lot harder), but I'm just as quirky as I want to be, and not any more, because I don't care about people losing interest in me - if it's not meant to be, then it isn't. Hollywood does a really good job of feeding the line that you need to be a certain way, and that love means a certain thing. And maybe to some people, it does. But it didn't for me. And it probably doesn't for a lot of people. A lot of our insecurities come from not feeling like we're "worth it" because we're surrounded by people, both in real life and in media, who seem like they're way cooler than we'll ever be.
Haha no worries! ❤️ It's always frustrated me how viewers were quick to lump (well-written) MPDG deconstructions in with the actual trope. Plenty still latch on to the idea of Summer being the poster girl for manic pixies; when the entire point of her character was to criticize the concept.
Yes. This was the entire reason of the movie. Her line, after she cries at the love scene in the Graduate: "I think I'm just going to call it a day." And he says : "I know, pancakes!"
Yes! I think that is perfectly summarized in the scene where Summer is telling Tom about a dream she had and all he think about was "Wow, I bet I'm the only person in the world she ever told this to. I must be very special." Literally doesn't listen to her dreams lmao
Oh my God THIS. I have a deep-seated loathing of this trope because I _am_ adhd and I _do_ have quirks that others have described as cutesy... and a lot of the time, that's the only thing people see when they look at me. They don't notice that I'm an actual person that has issues and goals just like everybody else. They're too busy drawing parallels to the Hollywood Manic Pixie Dream Girls and assuming that I exist for the sole purpose of _fixing_ them.
ikr. My favorite quote is "I like your personality" "Thanks its called mental illness" I can't remember where I heard that from. Your comment reminds me of it.
@@jessehenderson2967 Just because someone has feelings for you does not obligate you to return his or her affection. If everyone were required to date or sleep with anyone who was interested in them the world becomes a much different and (in my opinion) much creepier place.
@@jessehenderson2967 she outright tells him she’s not looking for anything serious while he just stares at her with clouded over eyes. Summer did nothing wrong, and that is the point of the movie
Enchanted is one of my favorite films and I love how they take this trope, and many others, on its head. Giselle is literally a 2 dimensional character in a 3 dimensional world, and she starts to realize her previous dreams might not be all that they’re cracked up to be. Yeah she comes into the life of a mildly depressed business man, but they both change a lot throughout the film as they both learn from each other and they get a fairytale ending together BUT without actually being in the fairytale world as royals.
And in THIS story, Mc Dreamy is the device without substance. SHE is the character. It does a great job of clearly defining WHY MPDGs are an unhealthy ideal to look for in a partner, but it's just what the main character needs.
JGL was so generous in the interview "if you really pay attention, Tom was not listening" I mean. She said it. Clearly. Multiple times. Over and over again.
Probably just a bunch of guys with poor social skills taking out their anger because they relate to the character getting dumped by his dream girl... without enough self-reflection to see what's going on there.
Lots to say about this film that has already been said but my explanation for hate toward Summer: IMHO Summer’s character is poisoned by the intro’s “bitch “ comment. It primes the passive audience member into Tom’s point of view. So for those who are like Tom we already know “how to feel” about Summer when she breaks it off. And I don’t think Tom learns the lesson, nor does the passive audience member. Also audiences are always terrible to actors who’s characters don’t perform to personal audience desire. I blame Tom. :)
No, I'm compassionate! I'm not going to just leave him outside in this thunderstorm. Besides, he looked really tired having to carry that chainsaw and severed head.
I was friends with a guy once who was always looking for his real-life MPDG. He was obsessed with movies and novels and wanted a relationship straight out of a film. The problem was, whenever those women would start, you know, acting like real people, he'd move on, often before actually ending the previous relationship. He'd been married several times and even had several _children_ with these women by the time I met him. He started to romanticize my personality and trying to tell me he had feelings for me in "quirky" ways. Thankfully, all the red flags were obvious enough that I never reciprocated. I don't think he understood just how self-centered and destructive he was being, and how many people he'd hurt in his wake.
That is worrying how he (and probably other men) fail to see women as people but just as some''thing'' to entertain them and just be there to be perfect and uplifting to them
@@v.e.jansen7720 On the flip side of that coin is the women who view men as ATM Machines, among other shallow desires that will leave him ditched in an instance for not fulfilling. As a male, I view this the same as a "disney princess" waiting on her "prince" to fix her problems. I think we are seeing how powerful media is in molding us. Men who are waiting for this type of girl, probably aren't living their lives either. They waste away. I imagine this type of male is what we refer to as a simp. The type of guy who, wrongfully, puts a woman on a pedestal and showers her with gifts just because she exist. Of course, many women are making a business out of using those sort of men.
Somehow, this reminds me of Ted Mosby. Which makes sense - he also tried finding his quirky, loveable, character and background lacking MPDG and also came forward as very creepy and obnoxious.
When I was a little girl in the 1970s, I completely wrote off Peter Pan as a story because all I could see was “a family of children fly away to an enchanted land of magic where the boys proceed to engage in fun and adventure while the girl gets to cook & clean for a bunch of rowdy boys engaging in fun & adventure” and I was *furious* about it! 😂
Peter Pan is a dead boy that takes the kids to their heaven, while they're dying in their room. In the end, they come back and the parents are happy they're not dead. Not sure you can be a psychopath if you're a spirit.
@@annemontgomery3890 In JM Barrie's book, Peter Pan kidnaps three children against their will, holds them hostage while he abuses the lost boys, then systematically murders pirates and terrifies Captain Hook before engaging in some Freudian shit the Wendy's mother. It's truly entertaining...but he's definitely a pyschopath.
@@jankk The story villainizes such practices though. It may address these issues innocuously, Peter's world is dysfunctional. It isn't how things ought to be. He loses wendy because he decides not to grow up. To stay under the spell of a "mommy" figure to enable his folly. Peter loses, and Wendy becomes a functional adult, no longer under the spell of the "mommy" he craves out of self-abandonment. It's a great example of how this "trope" can be used effectively. In E.Town, it's about a man who has recently been forced to give up all aspects and even his memories of childhood. The MPDG is a means by which a damaged individual can regain touch with his inner child, and give some perspective as to how his new life can be lived without the misery he feels before meeting her. Garden state does this well by ending the movie as it does. Open ended, ready for Z.B.'s character to either succeed with his new tools, or fall to the inner death he fears. No decisive inferrences are provided. The MPDG isn't an answer. She's a device for the STORY of the main chars development. Yes man was a PERFECT example of films that REALLY DO ENFORCE your opinions. So this video is about 75% off the mark, but poignant none the less.
Amelie is one of the worst examples of misusing the term. It’s literally a movie about her and her struggle as a young woman with a massive heart but who is too shy to reach out for what she wants. So she awkwardly tries to get the attention of the man she is interested in without actually talking to him. If anything, he is a MPDB.
The romance trope in Amélie Poulain is actually pretty great because the conflict in them getting together is simply that they're too shy to approach each other. So in a way they both evolve to gain that confidence, because of their own experience (Amélie opening herself to others, and Nino discovering the secret of the mystery man) Plus I like how the ending suggests a happy relationship but without the cliché overromantic scene. Like, their getting together scene is just sweet and wholesome (like the whole film, it's just so cute)
Extremely late reply - but I agree! The fact that we get to learn a lot about Amelie as a character (and the world through her eyes) completely removes her from the MDPG archetype. I haven't seen the film in years, but from what I remember we only really got to know the guy from her POV. So yes, if anything, he'd fall under the MPDB category. I also like wlwskam clizzy's take; their wholesome little cat-and-mouse game was very cute, and I like how we eventually see them form the courage to get together. I'm writing this based off a hazy memory of the film, but the ending was especially memorable because of how simple - yet quirky and sweet their getting together was.
@@ana-isabel I think so too! And I also agree with them. We know less about him, but they are still both presented in a way that feels very human. My favorite romances are the ones between two really quirky people. I just find them so adorable! And it's kind of the anti MPDG. Because interesting people deserve to be with other interesting people.
Definitely. They’re both quirky and shy and trying to find their place, and they compliment each other when they both finally find the bravery to literally show up for one another.
Always annoys me when people try and say Clementine from Eternal Sunshine is a MPDG just because she has colored hair. She has her own problems, she's her own person, and she doesn't just show up to inspire Joel and take him out of his "creative slump". If anything, she flat out tells him that every dude she's been with thinks that's what she's gonna do for them. Edit: just got to the point in your video where you bring her up, you nailed it
I agree. Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorite movies and I hate when Clementine gets clumped into the manic pixie group. Luckily this video shows that she is not that and her own person.
i wish i had the courage to say what she said in this video... the trope sort of depicts of a toxic relationship where one doesnt help themselves and relies on a dream girl/boy to cause a miracle ._.
I wonder what the complete inversion of this trope would be called. Imagine a story of a main character girl that thinks life is all fun and games and one big party until she meets this very plain and simple guy whose only purpose in the story is to get her head out of the clouds and her feet on the ground, making her face the harsh realities about life and herself. Throughout the movie, she keeps trying to get away from him because he always seems to be there whenever tragedy comes her way, such as losing her part time job, getting evicted from her apartment, watching her friends die from drug usage or suicide, etc. She mistakenly attributes these events to him as if he is some sort of force of doom and destruction, when in reality he's just a dude who has come to terms with life's struggles. Maybe the whole thing plays out as a bit of a psychological horror film instead of a cheery, quirky, whimsical comedy? Brooding Fiendish Nightmare Boy EDIT: Wow this kinda blew up. Thanks for the replies, especially the ones that reference media I’m not familiar with.
But that's just another 'Uppity Girl Gets Put In Place' narrative, as old as Eve getting lead astray in the Garden of Eden. It would be far better, surely, for that 'stable man' to be a monster, either in the metaphorical or literal sense, as they often are in reality. The viewer would then be left to address a dilemma. Is it better to be a happy trainwreck, or a successful monster?
@@TruculentSheep well yeah, I realize it sounds kinda dumb. After all, the inversion of a bad trope is still a bad trope. Maybe it could pull a 500 days and subvert expectations. The dude projected all this crap on to Summer as his cure-all muse, only to have her shove it back in his face. Maybe the inversion of that idea could unfold as the main girl projects all this fiendish personality onto this dude like he’s out to get her, only for him to shove it back in her face because he’s actually a decent human being just living life.
@@Intrafacial86 maybe it could work as instead of the mpdg teaching the surly man how to enjoy life the guy starts to make her think life is actually horrible and at the end shes bordering depressive and needs to be away from him not because it’s necessarily his fault but because be makes her think that way, idk
Sounds like the story might be the dude is waiting to manipulate her when she's weak. Somewhere between an incel and a Nice Guy. He's there for her when tragedy strikes, but is thinking she's there to change his life and can't understand why she wants nothing to do with him when he's been good to her. Pretty sure there are horror movies, less known, about a man ruining a lady's life. I feel like i've seen some : /
As for just a dude there to ground her to reality, I've no doubt this exists. I'd imagine the protagonist is a rich heiress, and the dude is either the boy next door she never acknowledges until the end that he's always there for her and totally right, OR he's the standard jerk trope who warms up over time but is still an asshole.
That’s a great way of looking at it. Makes the journey more intrinsic than extrinsic. I always try to tell myself the things I’d want someone else to tell me and take myself on adventures I’d want an Mpdg to take me on.
I am attracted to other manic pixie dream girls 😂 and after dating one it isn’t the best combo Because while we get each other, neither one of us could keep the other grounded. (I’m EnFP and she was INFP)
Heck, you could have your big resolution being the Changeling, now that there's nothing to feed off of, flatly telling their victim: "Humans aren't like that, and it wouldn't be good for them to be that way, any more than it would be good for me to treat you as something other than food I can hold a conversation with." Then you can have a pleasant ending of the Changeling has fed and moves on, the lead isn't dead/crazy/hollowed, has learned a life lesson and moves on, plot resolved pleasantly.
I once saw a French film from the '80s called Betty Blue, which had the standard Manic Pixie Dream Girl. However it was much more realistic, because rather than end on Happily Ever After, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl phase ended and she became Depressive Pixie Nightmare Girl.
Hmmm I gotta see this! 😛 Like how it veers away from the standard manic pixie happy ending haha; but was the ending from the viewpoint of the protagonist or manic pixie herself?
I would say the rolls are reversed in Betty Blue. While she is wild and liberating. He is much more representative of the 'cool bohemian artist type' that is being obsessed over. In terms of the relationship, he is just along of the ride. I think that's the root of her emotional break down. She's obsessed over getting him publish and he is already so resigned to the fact that it isn't happening that he doesn't share in any of her emotional highs and lows.
Fantastic video, Ana. As a guy who spent his 20's at the height of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl craze, I definitely had my share of unhealthy relationships because I put too much pressure on women to be a fix for the problems I had instead of dealing with them myself. In fact, this almost led to me breaking up with my now wife of 8 years (it's been a great 8 years!) after 1 week of dating because I built up unrealistic expectations of what a woman should be and how relationships should work. So, thanks for the accurate and detailed breakdown of this stereotype, and reminding us that behind every "dream girl" is a woman with hopes, dreams, flaws, needs, etc that are just as important as any the person who'd seek to be with her.
I just watched a video explaining the trope and it used 500 Days of Summer as an example, which was to my dismay considering it's one of my favorite films. Glad you cleared that up.
You missed the biggest Manic Pixie Dream Boy in the entirety of cinema: Jack Dawson (Titanic). It's completely insane. Great analysis! I was so, so worried that you'd lump (500) days of summer into the trope and was pleasantly surprised.
Step one: pick a supermodel Step two: erase their backstory and any possible flaws Step three: random quirky bullshit go! Step four: fill them with youthful energy
It's true that the women playing these characters are white and conventionally attractive but they're not supermodels. That would imply that they can't really act, lol. A lot of these actresses while not favorites were done dirty when they were cast into the more taken straight version of the trope. The majority of them are pretty great imo
I'm so thankful when people reiterate that JGL in 500 Day of Summer was really the problem in the relationship and I have always hated how his meeting Autumn at the end of that movie revealed he learned little to nothing from his selfish behavior. Great video! Keep it up!
"a John Green ending" I've never read a John Green novel where the romantic leads end up together but somehow the name John Green has become synonimous with happy endings for the romantic protagonists? When did that happen?
Yeah, I was gonna say. Paper Towns and the Fault in Our Stars both end badly for the main character, and they were the ones she referenced in the video.
While I think Ramona is the poster girl for MPDG, I fail to see how she is one. She’s the one with the baggage and constantly causes problems for Scott and hardly ever seems manic, expressive, or dream like. Of anything, Scott is the manic pixie dream boy since (at least in the comic) is loud, brash, childish and naive. I think she gets a bad wrap for being so closely tied to a category she hardly belongs in. While yes she literally appears to Scott in a dream and her fashion sense is wild, I feel like Scott and Ramona’s relationship is in itself a parody on the trope since the both have aspects of it
Ramona doesn't take scott's shit (especially comic Ramona) but she demonstrates that not only is she non-judgemental but also does not tolerate assholery she's aware of, other than the ending. Movie Ramona and Comic Ramona are very different, thats why they initially wrote and shot that different ending because it made a bit more sense.
tbh, while I don't think she completely fits the trope in the movie, I think this is portrayed a lot better in the books. Love the movie, and it's definitely weird and ironic to see Ramona become the poster child for manic pixie dream girls, but honestly she was pretty thoroughly reduced to a more blank slate character that's mostly only there to fulfill Scott's arc, and it doesn't do much to drive home the point that the books do: Scott is a childish fucking asshole who has been acting selfishly the entire time, reducing his life and his romantic interest to an achievement in a video game and alienating all the people in his life with his refusal to grow up in the process... and Ramona isn't the mysterious, perfect dream girl he makes her out to be - she is also very flawed, in ways similar to Scott, and he needs to stop projecting his unrealistic, exaggerated fantasy onto her. in the movie, i don't think nearly as much can be said for Ramona's character growth, & she kinda just forgives Scott for cheating without batting an eye. And as for Scott, he earns the power of self-respect rather than the power of understanding, which makes his character growth a lot more selfish, & he doesn't really gain any self-awareness of his own assholery by the end, at least not the way he does in the books. It does make some sense, given that the books definitely had more room to explore the characters & themes, but it's a little disappointing IMO cuz Ramona is a pretty great character and Scott Pilgrim as a series does a better job making a point out of Scott's toxicity... The books seem a lot more nuanced & mature in how they explore dealing with baggage and unmet, unrealistic expectations in relationships, where the movie is more of just a fun action story by comparison.
I feel this also applies to summer in 500 days. I think MPDG as a trope sometimes is overused and wrongly purposed to describe girls that are actually nods or critiques of the trope. Scott perceives Ramona as his manic pixie dream girl, but she is not actually that. Tom perceives summer as his manic pixie dream girl but really we learn that her purpose was to teach us a lesson that they don't really exist. It is a very thin line obviously as both are shot and costumed and acted exactly as manic pixie dream girls. But I feel like it's important to note that they are truly not. People can be too dismissive of things or characters just because they are popular.
I like this, but as a Peter Pan nerd : He isn't Manic Pixie Boy. 1. We get his backstory not only in Peter Pan the book but in other books written by the author. 2. His lack of character development is 100% on purpose. He is a metaphor if not a flat out personification of childhood. When Wendy, the protagonist, chooses to go home, she has realized she can't remain a child forever and must grow up. 3. It is very clear Peter is extremely flawed. He's easily angered (being willing to kill his own Lost Boys), stubborn, and arrogant - which is again the whole point, he's the personification of childhood. But his flaws have serious consequences in the story including Tink's near-death and the abduction of Wendy and her brothers. 4. Despite his lack of maturity being the point, Peter does have growth. He learns faith in Tink and empathy. 5. Wendy doesn't choose Peter, she chooses growing up - and Peter doesn't choose Wendy, he chooses to remain a child. Peter isn't a Manic Pixie. Don't be slighting my boy that way. But everything else I agree with. Edited to add- it's not a coincidence that Wendy's father and Hook are almost always played by the same actor in movies and plays. Her father is the one always pressuring her to grow up and mature, to contrast with Hook who foils Peter as everything Peter fears - adulthood. Both Wendy and Peter have these major adult figures in their lives who symbolize change and maturity and what it can do to your hopes and dreams. For Wendy, adulthood equals adult job and responsibility. For Peter, adulthood equals corruption and death and lack of fun. It is absolutely on purpose that one character, Wendy, chooses to face her fear by returning home, while the other (Peter) confronts his own fear (the final battle with Hook) but accepts that he is and always will remain true to himself even after losing almost everyone he cares for (Wendy and the Lost Boys). The metaphor and symbolism are big tools of the author's and anyone who wants to handwave it away by reducing Peter Pan to a Manic Pixie Boy has both missed the entire point of story and has done little to no research.
... it finally clicked. I never thought much about Peter Pan but that all makes sense. And the crocodile with the ticking clock? The one thing all adults fear; time and its inevitable running out resulting in death. Great comment.
Kinda why I didnt like the Flash in the Justice League movies(2017 and Sack Snyder cut). When he meets with Batman, hes the most awkward thing that ever happened to the DCEU and its as cringe as it gets. That and he runs like an alien that came to Earth and has never heard of the concept of running.
I can't believe so many people thought Summer was so awful because she didn't give him what he wanted. I saw it back then as a realistic interpretation of how relationships can end up. I didn't think about the manic pixie trope satire or any of that at the time. However, it also goes to show how many people projected themselves onto the main character in a "he's like me" kind of way, which should say, "fuck, I need some help cause this guy is a bit of a dick." And how many others just expect a "happy" ending when happy isn't one person feeling trapped and the other blissfully unaware until they are finally left probably decades later.
Could not agree more. As a naive teen back in the day, I admit I was one of those who felt for Tom and was disappointed at the lack of a "happy" ending. Watching it again in my mid-twenties (with actual experience in love and relationships), I realize how immature - and at some points, toxic - his perspective was. I guess the film sort of grows with you in that way. But yeah, any grown adult who sympathizes with Tom may need to re-evaluate why.
@@ana-isabel I was more, "oh cool he's moving on." Now I'm like, "oh no, please run from him he needs to work on himself". I am writing a book with a with a manic pixie type character but I don't believe that's how she fully comes off as. I am going to ask an editor at some point though. However she's a lesbian, and I want to explore more that she's barely got herself together ofc. I did put in a whole, "fuck that manic pixie bitch" quick joke, and her being like, " what? Idont like sad boys. I dont even like boys. Although manic pixie bitch would make a good band name." Since this book is about five friends starting a band in their teens.
No one can "fix" you but yourself, but loving someone can give you an incentive to be a better person, and someone who loves you can help you feel like you're worth fixing.
@@cmay7429 As someone who has dealt with mental health issues for several years, I can tell you that I had to "fix" myself in order to change my life for the better. Wanting to be "fixed" isn't enough, I had to take concrete actions towards healing and I had to make that decision every step of the way on my own. No amount of love from family, friends, and significant others, can help you if you don't want/try to help yourself. It's a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless. Don't get me wrong: having loved ones supporting you is great and can be a motivator to continue on a path towards healing, however, one needs take that first step and to make the necessary changes to get better (it is an action not merely a "want/desire.") If I didn't change and take better care of myself (i.e. fix myself) no one else could have made the progress for me. If my "feeling better" was dependent on love from someone else, it would make my wholeness/healing dependent on the feelings/existence of others. Other people can't be my primary motivator to getting better if I want to actually be healed. I have to want it for my own sake independent of others' emotions or thoughts. Otherwise, if that loved one leaves or no longer loves me, I would go back to being "broken." The ideal partner is someone who can take care of themselves, has their life figured out, shares the same core beliefs/lifestyle, and, is open to growing older with you. Lacking in one if these areas may become the source of stress, fights, and dissatisfaction in relationships. Love is a choice and one has to choose wisely.
It's just the standard escapist fantasy of being rescued from your situation. I'd suspect that this also preys on men who have trouble initiating contact or finding motivation in general, in addition to general loneliness. I suppose an argument could be made that these are prominent examples of relationships shown as positive in media of the time, but you could just as easily argue that anyone who's getting sincere life advice or role models from random characters in said media has bigger problems.
Ramona isn’t a MPDG in the comics: she’ actually a really complex character, and in the end, she leaves Scott for a bit to find herself (her words, not mine) then comes back, and fights with Scott to kill her toxic ex, with a scene about how she wasn’t completely over him, but parts of her were. It’s amazing. Then, after that, she has a talk with Scott about how she doesn’t know if she can change from her asshole-ish ways (my words, not hers) and Scott asks her to try. In the end, she’s free of Gideon, and she’s trying to be a better person.
I agree for the books. Since the movie focuses on the action and surrealism, I think even if Ramona qualifies, it has a different impact on things. Ramona doesn't show Scott the meaning of life or get him to embrace being himself, and she doesn't really do childish it quirky things. She didn't get development and mostly functions to push Scott's, but that's mostly incidental.
i think the test of a MPDG (or boy) is this: if there were to be a "this character was imaginary the whole time" twist at the end, and the movie would generally STILL make sense, they're a true MPDG
This helps a bit, I wanted to draw some cute shit about a girl helping a boy through some shit mentally and him maybe returning to do the same. but I kept worrying that would be this trope. And I've heard so much about men objectifying women I've started thinking I would never be treated as well as a gay couple because any man would never empathise with me as much i emphatised with him, I fucking hate internet polictics and i fucking hate twitter for the anxiety it gives me. I just want all this to stop.
honestly I think that, while we need films about realistic love with deep characters, we also need love movies that are not deep and just make you feel good and fuzzy and dreamy
We had enough of those decades ago. Then we had even more and it just made more of Joseph Gordon Levitt’s character in 500 Days out of actual people who could have been better people or at least had problems that they could have recognized they needed help fixing instead of having all of society prop them up as not-problems.
My favorite parody of this trope is definitely from Arrested Development! I even saw the actress who plays the MPDG in the ep in one of the clips you showed, so I learned it had another layer to it today! The main character was so into this whimsical fantasy of a girl 'filled with childish wonder', that he fails to realize she's actually mentally handicapped.
This parody actually hadn't crossed my mind until some people pointed it out in the comments! I now have a newfound appreciation for that plot, and it was already my favourite of the series :) Agreed - defs one of the best (and most entertaining) deconstructions out there.
Disney's+ Stargirl fits this dated trope perfectly. I frankly loathed that film for it's unnecessary changes to Stargirl's backstory (where's her father?) among other things, and for the high school being a bit too diverse. The book gave off this vibe that most of the students were rather similar. They came from similar backgrounds, wore similar clothing; these students were basically carbon copies with a side of "normal" cliques mixed into a mundane existence. Which is why Stargirl's unique essence stood out straight from the beginning. Plus Disney's+ version of Stargirl is nothing more than a dated Tumblr aesthetic. I believe she wore something that could be considered outlandish once or twice during the entire running time. At least they kept her pet, Cinnamon.
To be honest, I hadn't actually seen the entire film apart from trailers, random clips, and a few reviews. Didn't quite strike me as a stand-out teen movie (probs 'cause it screamed MPDG with its marketing), but seeing as the film seems like a haphazard adaptation - is the book worth a read?
@@ana-isabel Yes, it is. Stargirl's character might appear similar to a MPDG, however, she transcends such an ideal rather quickly. She's polite and unique, yes, yet her personality does verge on being "creepy." Something that isn't fully explored in the film, which I feel takes away from when everyone begins turning on her. Even Leo, the narrator and actual main character, thinks about turning his back on her because his reputation could be more important than their relationship.
@@MyCuteApple I agree! It is a good read. When I saw disney+ doing an adaptation of it, it didn’t strike my interest because it feels like it’s missing some key things from the book. Basically the things you mentioned in your comment.
I wouldn’t consider Stargirl a manic pixie. She has a story of her own in which ***spoiler warning from here on out for anyone that may be reading*** she’s pressured to conform to the fantastical ideals that the classmates and even Leo want her to be and she goes through her own journey where she conforms for a while and it eats away at her until she finally takes ownership of who she is and that being herself is the best option, even if it makes all these “stick to the status quo” type characters uncomfortable. Even when Leo learns to be himself too in the end, she’s happy for him, but she doesn’t stay in his life. She’s aware he isn’t good for her cuz he wants her to be his manic pixie dream girl. And in the end she moves and cuts ties both with everyone in that town (including Leo) as well as the things and ideals they were upholding her to.
I loved Summer. I watched that movie at the right time in my life. She was independent. She didn’t need anyone, especially I needy little boy. She found what she needed.
Interesting! What music did she like? I feel like music is so subjective. Although if someone listens to country music I usually say they have bad taste because it SUCKS.
@John D Ruddy Yeah, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl Trope isn't going anywhere, nor should it. For the most part I don't think there is such a thing as bad tropes only bad writers, the MPD trope doesn't need to die it just needs to evolve.
I’m a big fan of the book and think the second book is even better than the first. The first book is told from Leo’s perspective and it’s all about what he thinks of her. But without spoiling it I’ll say her whimsical mystery shtick doesn’t last. The second book is entirely from Stargirl’s perspective and really develops her character and is all about her figuring out what she wants and who she is. So I feel the books break down the trope as they go but I’m not sure how the movie handles it, I haven’t seen it. The Paper Towns movie totally butchers Margo’s agency at the end so I wouldn’t be surprised if the movie forgoes Stargirl’s character development to give audiences what they expect.
That Riverdale clip with jughead is some of the cringiest dialogue i've ever heard lmfao. And I love Ruby Sparks, also an interesting break down of the manic pixie trope and the idea of having a 'dream' partner.
@@JinMeowsoon Riverdale is an interesting show in that there are 2 ways to watch it - take it seriously or just laugh at the goofiness of it. iamthatroby has a good video about it - czcams.com/video/KQKIs7d7zJM/video.html
What are your thoughts on manic pixie dream girls? 🌺💕 🕝TIME STAMPS: 🕝 2:45 - The Problem With Manic Pixies 12:01 - "Manic Pixie" Misuse 19:18 - From Film Critique to Tired Term 21:20 - Death of the Trope
OMG, I actually just spent the better part of the day musing over MPDG nostalgia, movie clips of characters that were the fantasy fulfillment for the void in my life at that time, my youthful phase of ennui. I also continued into several articles going over it and it's overuse/misuse and went back, did a re-eval of some characters. I read some of the same articles you've shown and that article from The Guardian with Zoe Kazan's quote led me to looking at other tropes that sprung up, like the "arthouse stud monkey" lol. (Leslie Felperin coined "arthouse stud monkey" for the hirsute chaps (Michael Fassbender chief among them) who pleasure the women of publicly-funded movies. Or you could cite the Plaid Gastronome, seen in Chef and Drinking Buddies, who covers up emotional uncertainty with hipster food trends and Urban Outfitters clothing) Plus side to this, giving me more movie ideas to view while stuck at home, and a surprise that The Big Sick is a true story Kumail Nanjiani and Emily wrote it together, I hadn't gotten around to watching it before, but will move it up in queue now. Great content, I enjoyed it immensely, the yt algorithm got it right lol, you got another subscriber.
@@willreaver2295 Oh wow, firstly - thank you the thoughtful comment, it truly made my day! 😊✨ Happy to have my thoughts on a topic (that's interested me for the longest time, as someone who spends a good chunk of her days reading into movies and popular film tropes lol) resonate with someone else! Also happy to hear you've added The Big Sick to your list, it's definitely a rom-dramedy unlike the others; sweet and funny while touching on issues of culture and illness. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did! AND YES - hahaha I definitely did stumble upon the "arthouse stud monkey" and "plaid gastronome" during my research, along with the MPDG's precursor: the "cool girl". More interesting tropes that I mayyy explore or reference in future content. :) Thanks for subscribing, looking forward to making more deep-dive vids like this one!
Some sweeping generalisations coming here but... I think when people first meet they fill in a few personality aspects of each other. If it's a good first impression, the mind will fill in the blanks with assumed traits and characteristics based on a mesh of what they hope to be true and similar people that they've come across already in their lives. This is how media can be dangerous because it gives us these lazy caricatures that get bundled in with people we've "met" before. The life imitating art thing. I also think that this is how we end up with personality "types" - most relationships are a social game of fitting together and people react to how they're being treated based on how they're perceived - the "call me a monster and I'll act like a monster thing" but less extreme. Please do a video on this - it's been fascinating me for ages (and kind of weirding me out)
Lou from Me Before You is the perfect example of flipping the MPDG trope. The bubbly, quirky, crazy fashioned girl is the narrator, not just a prop. We see her experience not JUST happiness but loss, frustration, anger, insecurity, desperation, anxiety, trauma, and a feeling of being lost. We even get to see that the reason Lou became so “different” and picked up her crazy fashion was because she found dressing herself in bright colors and childlike accessories helped her cope with a sexual assault. It’s like JoJo Moyes wanted to write a quirky character but didn’t want the flaws and struggles to get lost in the quirkiness and I think she did an amazing job at that.
Ahhhh dang! Hahaa thanks for the correction on this one 😛 Yesss, Eternal Sunshine is one of the best scifi films imo - definitely has stuck with me all these years. And thanks so much!!! (also did a quick lookup of Michel Gondry - dude went on to direct Green Hornet?? 🤔)
@@ana-isabel You're welcome. Have to confess that I haven't seen Green Hornet. Michel originally made a name for himself doing music videos, so I went to see Eternal Sunshine based on that alone having no knowledge of the plot which I think was the best approach.
@@domstevens2851 DEFINITELY the best approach! :) I did the same when I watched it for the first time - went in blind. Though I think the experience would still be mindblowing either way. 😊
@@ana-isabel Gondry hates Green Hornet, he had no control over it. If you loved Eternal Sunshine and its weird effects you should watch L’écume des jours (Mood Indigo) its way closer imo
I think that I represent the misunderstanding, of people’s misunderstanding of the film. I used to love it in my early 20’s because I sympathized with Tom and thought Summer was a bitch. For not actually getting back together with him. Now I hate it in my 30’s because I feel like it pushes a dangerous masculine agenda where Summer is painted in a negative light for having her own agency and growing as a person (if you consider developing the ability to commit as a sighn of growth) and Tom is “meant” to be sympathized with.” Weird that another reply mentioned Fight Club because I have basically the same feelings about that film as well. Two movies that at one point were in my top ten and now I can’t even watch because they carry too much baggage :/
@@MyScorpion42 I would probably have to watch it again. I haven't seen it, save for video essays and analysis in quite a while, so maybe I could parse out the meaning that I am supposed to get from it. But from what I remember, I think that I am "meant" to identify with Tom and dislike Summer on a surface level, but then the movie is winking at me and nudging me in the ribs with it's elbow the whole time saying "But look, you see how HE'S actually the jerk in this film. You see? You see what we did there? You get it? You should be on the girl's side, but then we're not going to go out of our way to make sure that you, the audience actually has any sympathy for her by the end of the second act." I get it, at least I think that I do. I also get that as a filmmaker you don't want to be too obvious, but I just feel like this leaves a very dangerous message that most guys who only watch it at a surface level, or going to walk away with. And it sucks, because I am almost certain that that wasn't the intent, and I hate having to use an argument of Art vs Intent, and it isn't the artists job to make sure that their art isn't misinterpreted... but I just feel like this was more a case of execution than intention. Sorry for the rant, like I said, I have a lot of baggage with this film and my opinions on it changed almost 180 degrees and almost over night so I could just be way off base and completely not remembering the specific nuances of the film that disprove how I feel.
The irony is that Ramona Flowers herself, despite being the #1 or #2 most famous MPDG, breaks the stereotype in an interesting way. She's depressed, not manic, and Scott's love for her -- his stupid, toxic-masculine, goal-oriented love -- is what breaks her cycle and lets her accept herself.
Funnily enough, I feel like Ramona Flowers got hit by this a bit in the transition from comic to movie. She still has her own character going on somewhat, but she feels more like a pedestal girl in the movie, while in the comic she definitely had a more distinct personality. IMO it was probably just an issue of runtime, the comics had many issues to break everything down, while the movie just had one 2 hour cut you were meant to watch in one sitting.
Everyone, a wonderful book written by bo jack horsemans writer called "someone who will love you in all your damaged glory" Is a beautiful collection of short stories and poems on love of all kinds. Marriage, family, pets, loss and its voiced by a wonderful cast on audible.
I was hoping she would, I feel like there is a lot to discuss there, be it the comic or film. I absolutely loved the movie and would love to read the comics, but from what I've seen and heard, it would appear that there is a lot to dig into and unpack there.
@Stix N' Stones "I made a product in Vietnam when I was a Colonel over there. His name, or her name, was like Sung-Yee or… Yung-Woo or… something. Ah, it doesn’t really matter anyway cuz I think the napalm got him, or as I called it back then, birth control." -Modern philosopher, Mr. Plinkett
I think an interesting take on this trope would be this. It starts out standard, guy is unhappy with his life, he meets the MPDG, she shows him how to live, but then he decides he should also seek therapy. While in therapy he is told that people express depression in different ways, and some people even seem extra happy, but their really hurting. The guy then thinks of the girl, and goes to see her, and he finds her in her bedroom crying. The reason she seemed so bubbly and perfect was because she was trying to hide her true problems.
Sometimes i worry about what the manic pixie dream girl did to our culture in a way of making that mens ideal women. I know alot of guys who seem to be wishing they really exist.
I mean, I agree with you but a lot of women describe their perfect man as Manic Pixie too. I may be wrong, but I feel that the trope of Manic pixie, despite Hollywood using mainly woman, is way more unisex than most people think and it's toxic to expect someone to show up and solve your problems in your place.
@@hondshoven8477 IKR. Partners are partners not therapists. You should cheer each other up sometimes but you should try to build a circle of supportive loved ones instead of relying on only one person to make you happy. That's too much pressure. It turns into blaming the person you are supposed to care about the most for your own unhappiness. No, you just accept that sometimes you are happy and sometimes you are not.
I wonder what happens when a mpd girl and mpd boy get together. Is it one of those couples that are same kind of weird and just awesome together, or does it become a dangerous mixture of too much.
Same thing has pretty much happened to the "Mary Sue", originally legitimate criticism of a character who is basically a plot device and not a character, overused to the point of becoming a reductive, dismissive, casual insult.
Mary Sue isn't a plot device. Mary Sue's are characters that represent the author. While they are often a perfected version of the author would like to envision themselves this does not mean that every overpowered flawless character is a Mary Sue.
It's when people say "Mary sues are not a real thing, just an insult" that you can bet money that they've written a mary sue character. But then you also get people who will call anyone a mary sue because they dislike some small aspect of the character. For some, just having the ability to succeed at all is enough to mislabel a character. It really is a world of extremes when mary sue talk comes up. Being the nerd in the middle, I came up with a little quiz to test the level of sue, and which category they fall into most. To my shock, this made people even more angry... I see it as a valuable term for a serious problem. But more often than not, the way it's used really helps you find out if the reviewer is a dumbass or not. It does tend to say more about the person, than the character they're describing.
Just a small correction, "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" was directed by Michel Gondry not Charlie Kaufman, he co-wrote the script with the french director.
A co-worker of mine is like a real life manic pixie dream girl to a lot of people as she is like an extroverted, pretty dork. But because I never lost sight of the fact that at the end of the day, she is just another human being, with weaknesses, and problems of her own, I was closer to her than a lot of people who DESPERATELY wanted to be close to her, just so that her joy rubbed off on them. It can be dehumanizing to be thought of as someones manic pixie dream girl. She has joint issues, and we worked a laborious job. So some co-workers would laugh as she made groans of pain, or fell, because theyd assume she was joking. Even after realizing she was really hurt, they would respond by trying to lighten the mood, by trying to make her laugh, while I would show real concern, because I dont hold her up as this ethereal, indestructible being, whose only purpose in life is to cheer me up. I just think of her as an enjoyable, real and raw person. Not to give myself a pat on the back for it. Just saying to be considerate.
@@zakazany1945 You've never done any real work before, have you? Yes, they laughed. If she broke her arm hard enough to see bone and there was blood spurting anywhere, then they'd help immediately, but "my joints hurt and I have to move boxes around" or something similar to that is just a normal work pain, to be minimized and normalized.
@@zakazany1945 Like I said, theyd assume she was joking because she constantly jokes around. Its not because they were bad people, but because she was such a lighthearted, positive person, it was hard for them to see her as a person who could actually hurt and have issues.
@@Thalanox Well, everyone is different. Like when "I" would fall or get hurt, it usually wasnt a big deal. I was just clumsy, and would recover relatively quickly. So I would rather people laugh than show concern for me, just to make me feel less embarrassed about it. But she had surgery on an ankle a few years prior. And even prior to learning that, I would take her falls seriously, just because you never know. And wouldnt you know? A serious fall is ultimately what took her out of the job.
The manic pixie dream girl has been around, and it will be back. They were once called Pollyanna's back in the early 1910's, were in fashion for a while, then disappeared, evolved a little and remerged as the Pixie girls we know today. These tropes go in and out of fashion as time rolls on, people weary of one archetype, so they move on to another, and then the one they abandoned is rediscovered years later by another generation and seems fresh and new once more. The Pixies will be back. Maybe they will be called the Sunflowers next time, or be named after another character as the Pollyanna's were, but they will be back. This is because, most character archetypes are derived, at least somewhat, from actual people and traits, exaggerated and refined slightly, but still recognizable. Most people know a very exuberant hyperactive young girl, so a manic pixie dream girl or a Pollyanna strikes that chord with them.
I kinda want to make a story about it now. While watching this video I realized how people portray me as a "manic pixie dream girl". (I'm a black girl, btw.)
THANK YOU. Tropes can be harmful, but I often wonder if it would be so bad if we black women finally got a trope that wasn’t related to “angry, sassy, and masculine”.
I really liked how you defined the MPDG. I personally liked both Elizabethtown and Garden State and didn't really understand the hate of the trope, because... well... there are girls who are manic, have good taste in music, and have quirky personalities. Your analysis that these characters didn't really have any character development, but were just there to help the male lead develop was really insightful. I hadn't heard that before and I agree that 500 Days of Summer doesn't fit the trope, because her character does change over the course of the film. However, Elizabethtown, Garden State, and even Scott Pilgrim do fit that description and it does change how I'll watch those films. What's funny is that even without knowing the term MPDB, I was able to recognize their artificiality in movies pretty easily before watching this video. I couldn't have articulated what was wrong as well as you did, but I could see something was off, whereas my wife loves those kinds of films. It's interesting how we can have those blind spots when it comes to our own fantasies, but see them so clearly and baldly when looking at the fantasies of others. I think I'll still enjoy films like Garden State and Elizabethtown, but I agree that just knowing about the trope helps writers create more fully fleshed out characters. It also helps audiences demand more from writers. Thanks for sharing this.
Aw, no worries! And yeah, I think we've all been guilty of giving in to our own fantasies/biases, while being more aware or critical of others' (I've been there!). Glad I could offer my insight on this trope!
Wdym? Ramona is a deconstruction of the trope. Her whole shtick is that she’s actually a flawed and troubled person but Scott doesn’t acknowledge it at first, just like in 500 days
Thank hell Scott Pilgrim’s trending on netflix, if it wasn’t for that, i wouldn’t have searched for this trope, and seen this brilliant analysis/essay on the topic 👍
The movie kind of botched ramona because of having to condense the runtime and that scott was originally supoosed to end up with knives. The movie plays the MPDG straight when originally in the comics ramona was kind of a commentary on the trope as she was just as much of an asshole as scott as she had commitment issues and cheated a lot. Here's a more in depth exploration of it since I can't explain shit: femalefortitude.blogspot.com/2012/10/this-one-girl-with-hair-like-this.html?m=1
i'm so glad that people started recognizing that the misuse of this term has become a misogynistic way of criticizing any sort of "quirky" girl in a story. At the height of the term's usage I started to become really paranoid and self-conscious because some of my own personal tastes fell in line with some of the stereotypical characteristics of MPDGs... I started to feel like I needed to change myself out of fear people would think that I was fake and pretentious. That's when I realized that the trope usage was beginning to really spiral out of control and just became another way for people to cram others into boxes to make fun of.
Yet she didn’t even talk about her! It would have been interesting to hear her talk about how she is written as a crappy trope in the film, but actually is well written in the graphic novels and is a subversion in some ways in them, at least to the og definition of the MPDG.
I had a friend who dated a Manic Pixie dream girl. She shaved her head, smashed his windows and attacked him with a bat when he tried to break up with her. Like, she trained her pet bat to attack on command, it was so quirky.
blegh, that sucks. I had a similar thing, basically came away thinking, well it's not my fault you don't listen to me or ask me questions. love your profile pic!
Have you ever read "Voice of Our Shadow" by Jonathan Carroll? It's a really dark deconstruction of the trope, with the main character even being called a "leech" by the end. It's quite good. :D
I wouldn't say Ramona Flowers is a MPDG. If anything, her and Knives Chao are subversions of the type on both ends. Ramona is a literal dream-girl who's pretty grounded, sees through Scott's "nice-guy" act, and carries a ton of baggage who control her love-life. Knives is manic and free-spirited; but is treated as a disposable-date who refuses to be disposed-of.
The manic pixie dream girl/boy (MPDG/B) is basically a hot, Cartoony Jiminy Cricket or the Devil/Angel on your shoulder to tell you to throw caution to the wind and live life to the fullest. That's why they seem so surreal. They never really talk about their origins (family, education, work) and they miraculously make all the time in the world for the main character. Just as you would summon a helpful spirit guide, MPDG/B always seem to be up for 3 am deep conversation skinny dipping sessions and never seem to be at work ever again, even if where you met them was their place of work. It wouldn't be crazy to think that the whole time, MPDG/B was a figment of their imagination to help them cope with their grief and/or depression.
When you referred to the MPDG as an “illusion”, it brought back this old idea I had for one of my stories, wherein the depressive male main character fell in love with a girl who was naturally energetic and fun, but along the way, it becomes clear that the person he was trying to have a relationship with is a figment of his imagination trying to search for something positive in his life. The idea was that his issues were rooted in his own optimistic naïveté and that the girl he created in his mind was him searching for solace and validation of that mindset.
Sorry gotta call out slight error: “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” was not directed by Charlie Kaufman. While he wrote the screenplay, Michel Gondry was the one who directed.
to be fair, who didn´t dream about a beatiful/cute girl/boy who is dedicated to make your life special and exciting ? Everyone who have (or is having) a miserable time with his/her own life and feel super lonely already have at least once a fantasy about a manic pixie dream girl/boy
I think the part that makes 500 Days so painful is when you find out that Summer gets married to some other dude at the end. You spend all this time empathizing with Tom, and you feel for him when she dumps him. But at the same time you understand that there's no villain in the story, they were two people on different pages. She was up front about her feelings on love and what she was looking for, so if Tom let himself believe that something more was possible; that's on him. But then you find out that she marries some other guy, and you realize that Tom wasn't wrong. It was possible for her to form that kind of connection with someone, just not with him. Either because of bad timing or because of their personal dynamic. I think there is a unique sort of powerlessness that comes with relationships, because you can't change how someone truly feels about something. You can't logic someone into believing you're the one, or make a convincing enough argument. You either are or you aren't. In that scene at the end of the movie, Tom realizes that it wasn't actually that she didn't believe in it; she just hadn't felt it yet. And the fact that their relationship came and went, then she found it with someone else; means he was never going to be it for her. I think that's a painful realization that you can't rationalize away or make excuses for. You can only stand there and feel it gut punch you full force. And I think a lot of the undeserved rage against Summer comes from people feeling that energy, and having no place to send it. So they aim it at Summer, because on the surface it can look like she lied to Tom. But she didn't, she's just feeling what she feels; at different points in her life about completely different people. So it's like being mad at the weather, you can be as mad as you want but it's not going to change anything..... ** It also sucks that you never see the guy she ends up marrying at all. You don't get to see if he's similar to Tom or completely different. If they're similar, you could convince yourself it was a timing thing. If they're very different, it could have been a personality thing. But instead she just implies that she discovered feelings she didn't think she could have with some off screen rando. **
*raises hand* Can I point out another huge, huge factor of the MPDG trope is the girl being young and pretty. I know you briefly mentioned this in the video, but it can't be understated that the (Sad)Boy has an undeniable attraction to her, which kicks off the #1 reason for boy's transformation. Should the character be an older, concerned parent/boss/friend or a fat/gay/same sex friend/relative, they will be ignored or "not understand." Her underdeveloped history and singular motivation to help the boy veers toward feeding the "Male Gaze," as the things she says are more significant to him due to the sexual attraction/tension he has for her, becoming her biggest reason for existence = for his redemption or pleasure.
Kathryn Hepburn "bringing up baby" Melanie Griffith "something wild" Madonna "who's that girl?" Sandra Bullock "forces of nature" And that's off the top of my head. Sometimes they get together and sometimes she helps him move on...
Liza Minnelli in "the Sterile Cuckoo". ( Come Saturday morning, I'm going away with my love. ) Saw it in my teens & was quite taken with Pookie Adams, tho' she had...um...issues.
@@ricomarez7834 Annie does not theaches Alvy how to live she actually brings even more problems to him cause she very complicate and incompatible to him
oh my god, I loved this video! This was a wonderfully done video and I myself being a big fan of Summer and Clementine completely agree with you on that aspect. It was a very refreshing take on this trope that a LOT of people miss the satire. I'm a big movie nerd myself and pay a lot of attention so maybe that's why I actually LIKED those characters. Anyhoo. Can I just say---you are rocking that blue hair and the whole look is amazing!! Can't wait to see you get more subscribers! xx
Ahhh thank you so much! 🥰🥰 Glad you enjoyed my take and have the same appreciation for Summer and Clementine's characters as I did. I'm also surprised by how a ton of people miss the intentional parody/deconstruction. Glad to meet a fellow movie geek, hope you enjoy the future movie/pop-culture content I have in store! And oh man - I *wish* I could keep my hair this colour, hahaha! (Unfortunately, with how sensitive it is it'd fry up if I tried)
I was like that, I had no psicological disorder, I just saw myself in some of those characters I guess, but there was a moment that I started to feel less and less like myself... and then things had to change, I couldn’t live for somebodyelse happines.. I had to learn to say no
The misuse of tropes and terms in cultural critique is very common: people regurgitate any term they read, even if faultily applied. Plot armour, Mary Sue or MPDG are thrown around without much thought. However, while I agree with the rest, I will contradict you with your assessment of 500 days. Great video though, suscribed
Very true, I've often found myself guilty of this. Next to "manic pixie", "Mary Sue" tends to be another hot term thrown around haphazardly. Glad you enjoyed the video though - and I am curious to hear what your take is on 500 Days of Summer!
You know what I want? I want one of these manic pixie dream girls to be the villain of the story. The try hard, the overbearing one, the one to constantly try and weasel her way into other people's lives. Other people are rightfully creeped out by her overbearing nature. "Quirky" is only quirky when the other person is into it / if the manic pixie dream girl can pull it off. If not, they are annoying, possessive, and creepy.
yeah so Donkey is basically Shrek's manic pixie dream boy change my mind
I feel no need to attempt to change your mind. This is compleetely correct.
Cant argue 😳
This is so accurate
You know what 🤔
I want to change your mind so fucking badly but I can't so I'll just go get myself a lobotomy instead
I need a movie where manic pixie dream girl meets manic pixie dream boy. Let's see what would happen
They will make a manic pixie baby
explosions
This is the overly lovey dovey couple that you see as side characters in other films
They both die at the end from their unexplained terminal illnesses.
Hear me out Harry Potter right, the Lovegood family 👀
Wait so jack from titanic-
YOU ARE SO RIGHT HAHAHA
Yes. Yes, he is.
@@JinMeowsoon He could not fit on the board because a man sacrificing him self for a women is a fetish for a lot of people. If you ever have girlfriend ask you "would you die for me?", lie and make a mental note that she is no keeper.
Or the 10th Doctor
Oh shit
My idea for a deconstruction of a manic pixie dream girl would start off by playing the cliches straight, but as the film goes on, the boy would ask the girl basic questions that she can't answer and he becomes more and more suspicious. Eventually, he finds out that she is nothing more than a figment of his imagination and he's just been hallucinating. It would be like Fight Club, but for romance stories.
This kinda sounds heartbreaking haha - I'd pay to see this.
Or maybe she’s just straight up a Skrull
🍿🍿🍿🍿 I'm listening
"I'm thinking of ending things" is very close to that.
Pfft lol, I love it. Shampoo instead of soap?
The trope is as old as art itself. The Manic Pixie Dream Girl is simply the modern label for the muse, mystical and untouchable female goddesses who inspire the creative energies of artists stuck in listless doldrums.
Oh, I never thought of it this way! Awesome point though, thanks for highlighting this. 😊 I guess in the modern age the struggling "artist" has been replaced by angsty teens/young adults with growing pains. MDPGs hold pretty much the same traits as classic muses, with a new coat of "quirky/indie aesthetic" paint.
Wonderful post, but one note... isn't saying "listless doldrums" redundant?
Ana Isabel thoughts on Ramona Flowers?
A fairy godmother for mediocre men
Hell yeah! They're quirky muses
Idea: Manic pixie dream girl, but she forces herself to be all “quirky cool uwu” because she’s deeply insecure and terrified of people losing interest in her.
That's how the people who are perceived as Manic Pixie Dream Girls/Guys in real life often feel/act. A good friend of mine seemed like the archetypal MPDG for a good chunk of my teen years, and she actually helped me through a lot of stuff, in a way not dissimilar from the movies. Unlike in those movies though, I eventually learned that she had a lot of issues and insecurities herself. She simply used her bubbly, exuberant behaviour to shield herself from the things that might hurt her.
@@rarazalproductions519 Still, it would be nice to see it in film. The reality is that just like men who are eccentric, eccentric females are often highlighting one aspect of life to hide another. I’ve seen it sometimes expressed in film, but often they are the companions of the boring side character who has to watch them break down. I want to see a film tackle what it’s like to BE the actual eccentric quirky girl who’s got allot of shit and baggage, kinda like new girl but starker and realer.
Teenage me feels personally attacked.
I spent a lot of my teenage years trying to figure out what "interesting" meant, and then trying to be whatever I thought that was. Once I got out of high school, I realized that the "real world" required a bit more conformity and then rubber banded and spent my early 20s being bland and boring and wondering why I had no friends.
It took till my late 20s to really start settling down and now that I'm in my mid 30s, I'm happily at a point in life where I can be "myself" because I eventually more or less figured out who "myself" is.
It just took a lot of letting TV, movies, and other people dictate who I thought I was "supposed to be" to get there.
Honestly, I'm still light on the amount of "close friends" I have (and Covid makes socializing a lot harder), but I'm just as quirky as I want to be, and not any more, because I don't care about people losing interest in me - if it's not meant to be, then it isn't.
Hollywood does a really good job of feeding the line that you need to be a certain way, and that love means a certain thing. And maybe to some people, it does. But it didn't for me. And it probably doesn't for a lot of people. A lot of our insecurities come from not feeling like we're "worth it" because we're surrounded by people, both in real life and in media, who seem like they're way cooler than we'll ever be.
@@rarazalproductions519 ... Das simply me. U described me.
that just sounds like a lot of uwu girls in real life tho
I love you for pointing out the missuse of the term with characters that literally subvert the whole trope
Haha no worries! ❤️ It's always frustrated me how viewers were quick to lump (well-written) MPDG deconstructions in with the actual trope. Plenty still latch on to the idea of Summer being the poster girl for manic pixies; when the entire point of her character was to criticize the concept.
Thank you!
"Literally"
@@therealtijuanaman yes.jpg
@@riley8385 that ain't it chief
Summer had very clear goals. We the audience couldn’t hear what it was because Tom wasn’t listening.
People missed the point of this movie, and then blamed Zooey for it.
@@pippiecarr9378 yes! It was from his point of view and thus she was only shown how he viewed her.
Yes. This was the entire reason of the movie. Her line, after she cries at the love scene in the Graduate: "I think I'm just going to call it a day." And he says : "I know, pancakes!"
Yes! I think that is perfectly summarized in the scene where Summer is telling Tom about a dream she had and all he think about was "Wow, I bet I'm the only person in the world she ever told this to. I must be very special." Literally doesn't listen to her dreams lmao
Yes!!!!!!!
Manic pixie dream girl aka “the cutesy characteristics of ADHD but like, ignore all the hard bits uwu”
Oh my God THIS. I have a deep-seated loathing of this trope because I _am_ adhd and I _do_ have quirks that others have described as cutesy... and a lot of the time, that's the only thing people see when they look at me.
They don't notice that I'm an actual person that has issues and goals just like everybody else. They're too busy drawing parallels to the Hollywood Manic Pixie Dream Girls and assuming that I exist for the sole purpose of _fixing_ them.
@@vividdaydream1516 frikin same. i always wondered why only sad damaged girls liked me then i saw this vid. explains a lot
ikr. My favorite quote is "I like your personality" "Thanks its called mental illness" I can't remember where I heard that from. Your comment reminds me of it.
Exactly
OH. OH. OOOHH. This explains why I loved and actually could identify with the MPDG as a teen.
When I was younger I hated Summer and it took me years to realize she was just living her own life and doing what she could to make herself happy
#summeraintthevillain. Change my mind.
@@jessehenderson2967 Just because someone has feelings for you does not obligate you to return his or her affection. If everyone were required to date or sleep with anyone who was interested in them the world becomes a much different and (in my opinion) much creepier place.
@@danielwong6468 summer ain't the villain. I agree.
@@jessehenderson2967 she outright tells him she’s not looking for anything serious while he just stares at her with clouded over eyes. Summer did nothing wrong, and that is the point of the movie
@@jessehenderson2967 I think thats pretty accurate and obvious from the film
Enchanted is one of my favorite films and I love how they take this trope, and many others, on its head. Giselle is literally a 2 dimensional character in a 3 dimensional world, and she starts to realize her previous dreams might not be all that they’re cracked up to be. Yeah she comes into the life of a mildly depressed business man, but they both change a lot throughout the film as they both learn from each other and they get a fairytale ending together BUT without actually being in the fairytale world as royals.
And in THIS story, Mc Dreamy is the device without substance.
SHE is the character.
It does a great job of clearly defining WHY MPDGs are an unhealthy ideal to look for in a partner, but it's just what the main character needs.
JGL was so generous in the interview "if you really pay attention, Tom was not listening"
I mean. She said it. Clearly. Multiple times. Over and over again.
Pay attention...
No.
Tom is the audience that ended up hating Summer in the end
Probably just a bunch of guys with poor social skills taking out their anger because they relate to the character getting dumped by his dream girl... without enough self-reflection to see what's going on there.
Lots to say about this film that has already been said but my explanation for hate toward Summer: IMHO Summer’s character is poisoned by the intro’s “bitch “ comment. It primes the passive audience member into Tom’s point of view. So for those who are like Tom we already know “how to feel” about Summer when she breaks it off. And I don’t think Tom learns the lesson, nor does the passive audience member. Also audiences are always terrible to actors who’s characters don’t perform to personal audience desire. I blame Tom. :)
“you let a stranger in the house? are you a SIMPLETON?!" has me rolling
No, I'm compassionate! I'm not going to just leave him outside in this thunderstorm. Besides, he looked really tired having to carry that chainsaw and severed head.
Best line in a horror flick 😂
Lmaooo what movie is that?
@@everberry51 Bird Box on Netflix
Dude was the smartest one in that house. I felt bad when he died.
I was friends with a guy once who was always looking for his real-life MPDG. He was obsessed with movies and novels and wanted a relationship straight out of a film. The problem was, whenever those women would start, you know, acting like real people, he'd move on, often before actually ending the previous relationship. He'd been married several times and even had several _children_ with these women by the time I met him. He started to romanticize my personality and trying to tell me he had feelings for me in "quirky" ways. Thankfully, all the red flags were obvious enough that I never reciprocated. I don't think he understood just how self-centered and destructive he was being, and how many people he'd hurt in his wake.
i feel you buddy i had this guy in class crushing over me saying i'm like his hermione
That is worrying how he (and probably other men) fail to see women as people but just as some''thing'' to entertain them and just be there to be perfect and uplifting to them
@@v.e.jansen7720 On the flip side of that coin is the women who view men as ATM Machines, among other shallow desires that will leave him ditched in an instance for not fulfilling. As a male, I view this the same as a "disney princess" waiting on her "prince" to fix her problems. I think we are seeing how powerful media is in molding us. Men who are waiting for this type of girl, probably aren't living their lives either. They waste away. I imagine this type of male is what we refer to as a simp. The type of guy who, wrongfully, puts a woman on a pedestal and showers her with gifts just because she exist. Of course, many women are making a business out of using those sort of men.
Somehow, this reminds me of Ted Mosby. Which makes sense - he also tried finding his quirky, loveable, character and background lacking MPDG and also came forward as very creepy and obnoxious.
CAPITAL CREEEEEEEEPPPPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
I knew a manic pixie girl once but it turned out she was just really into coke
The drink or the drug?
@@rmj8905 yes
hahahaha… i’m living.
Usually that's the case.
What a classic
"Peter Pan is the original manic pixie dream boy." True, except in the original book, where he is a literal psychopath.
When I was a little girl in the 1970s, I completely wrote off Peter Pan as a story because all I could see was “a family of children fly away to an enchanted land of magic where the boys proceed to engage in fun and adventure while the girl gets to cook & clean for a bunch of rowdy boys engaging in fun & adventure” and I was *furious* about it! 😂
Peter Pan is a dead boy that takes the kids to their heaven, while they're dying in their room. In the end, they come back and the parents are happy they're not dead. Not sure you can be a psychopath if you're a spirit.
@@annemontgomery3890 In JM Barrie's book, Peter Pan kidnaps three children against their will, holds them hostage while he abuses the lost boys, then systematically murders pirates and terrifies Captain Hook before engaging in some Freudian shit the Wendy's mother. It's truly entertaining...but he's definitely a pyschopath.
@@annemontgomery3890 Peter pan is an aloof child who escapes from reality rather than face the real world. He is a 1900s NEET.
@@jankk The story villainizes such practices though. It may address these issues innocuously, Peter's world is dysfunctional. It isn't how things ought to be. He loses wendy because he decides not to grow up. To stay under the spell of a "mommy" figure to enable his folly.
Peter loses, and Wendy becomes a functional adult, no longer under the spell of the "mommy" he craves out of self-abandonment.
It's a great example of how this "trope" can be used effectively.
In E.Town, it's about a man who has recently been forced to give up all aspects and even his memories of childhood. The MPDG is a means by which a damaged individual can regain touch with his inner child, and give some perspective as to how his new life can be lived without the misery he feels before meeting her.
Garden state does this well by ending the movie as it does. Open ended, ready for Z.B.'s character to either succeed with his new tools, or fall to the inner death he fears.
No decisive inferrences are provided. The MPDG isn't an answer.
She's a device for the STORY of the main chars development.
Yes man was a PERFECT example of films that REALLY DO ENFORCE your opinions. So this video is about 75% off the mark, but poignant none the less.
Amelie is one of the worst examples of misusing the term. It’s literally a movie about her and her struggle as a young woman with a massive heart but who is too shy to reach out for what she wants. So she awkwardly tries to get the attention of the man she is interested in without actually talking to him. If anything, he is a MPDB.
The romance trope in Amélie Poulain is actually pretty great because the conflict in them getting together is simply that they're too shy to approach each other. So in a way they both evolve to gain that confidence, because of their own experience (Amélie opening herself to others, and Nino discovering the secret of the mystery man) Plus I like how the ending suggests a happy relationship but without the cliché overromantic scene. Like, their getting together scene is just sweet and wholesome (like the whole film, it's just so cute)
Extremely late reply - but I agree! The fact that we get to learn a lot about Amelie as a character (and the world through her eyes) completely removes her from the MDPG archetype. I haven't seen the film in years, but from what I remember we only really got to know the guy from her POV. So yes, if anything, he'd fall under the MPDB category.
I also like wlwskam clizzy's take; their wholesome little cat-and-mouse game was very cute, and I like how we eventually see them form the courage to get together. I'm writing this based off a hazy memory of the film, but the ending was especially memorable because of how simple - yet quirky and sweet their getting together was.
@@ana-isabel I think so too! And I also agree with them. We know less about him, but they are still both presented in a way that feels very human. My favorite romances are the ones between two really quirky people. I just find them so adorable! And it's kind of the anti MPDG. Because interesting people deserve to be with other interesting people.
Definitely. They’re both quirky and shy and trying to find their place, and they compliment each other when they both finally find the bravery to literally show up for one another.
lill eyeglasses
Always annoys me when people try and say Clementine from Eternal Sunshine is a MPDG just because she has colored hair. She has her own problems, she's her own person, and she doesn't just show up to inspire Joel and take him out of his "creative slump". If anything, she flat out tells him that every dude she's been with thinks that's what she's gonna do for them.
Edit: just got to the point in your video where you bring her up, you nailed it
I agree. Eternal Sunshine is my favorite movie and I hate when Clementine gets clumped into that role of Manic Pixie.
I agree. Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorite movies and I hate when Clementine gets clumped into the manic pixie group. Luckily this video shows that she is not that and her own person.
i wish i had the courage to say what she said in this video... the trope sort of depicts of a toxic relationship where one doesnt help themselves and relies on a dream girl/boy to cause a miracle ._.
Clem is the exact opposite of a MPDG, lol.
¡Exactly!
I wonder what the complete inversion of this trope would be called. Imagine a story of a main character girl that thinks life is all fun and games and one big party until she meets this very plain and simple guy whose only purpose in the story is to get her head out of the clouds and her feet on the ground, making her face the harsh realities about life and herself.
Throughout the movie, she keeps trying to get away from him because he always seems to be there whenever tragedy comes her way, such as losing her part time job, getting evicted from her apartment, watching her friends die from drug usage or suicide, etc. She mistakenly attributes these events to him as if he is some sort of force of doom and destruction, when in reality he's just a dude who has come to terms with life's struggles. Maybe the whole thing plays out as a bit of a psychological horror film instead of a cheery, quirky, whimsical comedy?
Brooding Fiendish Nightmare Boy
EDIT: Wow this kinda blew up. Thanks for the replies, especially the ones that reference media I’m not familiar with.
But that's just another 'Uppity Girl Gets Put In Place' narrative, as old as Eve getting lead astray in the Garden of Eden. It would be far better, surely, for that 'stable man' to be a monster, either in the metaphorical or literal sense, as they often are in reality. The viewer would then be left to address a dilemma. Is it better to be a happy trainwreck, or a successful monster?
@@TruculentSheep well yeah, I realize it sounds kinda dumb. After all, the inversion of a bad trope is still a bad trope.
Maybe it could pull a 500 days and subvert expectations. The dude projected all this crap on to Summer as his cure-all muse, only to have her shove it back in his face. Maybe the inversion of that idea could unfold as the main girl projects all this fiendish personality onto this dude like he’s out to get her, only for him to shove it back in her face because he’s actually a decent human being just living life.
@@Intrafacial86 maybe it could work as instead of the mpdg teaching the surly man how to enjoy life the guy starts to make her think life is actually horrible and at the end shes bordering depressive and needs to be away from him not because it’s necessarily his fault but because be makes her think that way, idk
Sounds like the story might be the dude is waiting to manipulate her when she's weak. Somewhere between an incel and a Nice Guy. He's there for her when tragedy strikes, but is thinking she's there to change his life and can't understand why she wants nothing to do with him when he's been good to her.
Pretty sure there are horror movies, less known, about a man ruining a lady's life. I feel like i've seen some : /
As for just a dude there to ground her to reality, I've no doubt this exists. I'd imagine the protagonist is a rich heiress, and the dude is either the boy next door she never acknowledges until the end that he's always there for her and totally right, OR he's the standard jerk trope who warms up over time but is still an asshole.
Buddy the Elf: The ultimate manic pixie dream boy (and in this one, Zooey Deschanel is the brooding love interest, oh how the turn tables!)
I watched Elf for the first time _really_ late (like, last year) and I actually said out loud, "Oh, hey, she's getting manic pixied at!"
but, at least Buddy has a little bit of baggage for not having a relationship with his dad.
Lmao came down here to comment just this! I guess the movie sort of subverts it because he DOES have a backstory to explain his wackiness
this video looks like it would have 2 million views and randomly be in everyone's recommended
This is so sweet haha - thank you! ✨
Yeah I've also been surprised by that
my thoughts exactly, this is really well written and edited. Top tier "video essay" material
EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT
it randomly appeared in my recommended.
why i always lose the shit when jughead starts quoting the i’m weird stuff
I'M WEIRD, I'M A WEIRDO
@@diip-ali1228
not Soo
PleasE
@@diip-ali1228 I don’t fit in. I don’t want to fit in.
I can’t help but hear it as read by Daniel Howell.
"lose the shit" lol me
I'm my own manic pixie, then I revert to the imperfect leading man who hates his job while striving to find my pixie within my self again.
That’s a great way of looking at it. Makes the journey more intrinsic than extrinsic.
I always try to tell myself the things I’d want someone else to tell me and take myself on adventures I’d want an Mpdg to take me on.
it sounds like you two should go on a series of madcap adventures together and learn the true meaning of christmas
I am attracted to other manic pixie dream girls 😂 and after dating one it isn’t the best combo Because while we get each other, neither one of us could keep the other grounded. (I’m EnFP and she was INFP)
I’m sorry but the phrase “sad lad to sensitive chad” is just amazing.
Also, most of the time the MPDG wears little to no makeup cuz she's like...real, y'know? Bonus points if she's dying of a tragic yet invisible illness
The mpdg either move away or get sick and die
Lol I always try to see what “natural” makeup techniques were used on mpdgs.
Your Lie in April definitely did this
The MPDG is very carefully made up to look like she's gorgeous, but not wearing makeup.
Manic-pixie dream girl but she's actually a Changeling feeding off the wonder they inspire to get glamour.
Heck, you could have your big resolution being the Changeling, now that there's nothing to feed off of, flatly telling their victim: "Humans aren't like that, and it wouldn't be good for them to be that way, any more than it would be good for me to treat you as something other than food I can hold a conversation with." Then you can have a pleasant ending of the Changeling has fed and moves on, the lead isn't dead/crazy/hollowed, has learned a life lesson and moves on, plot resolved pleasantly.
So, stock manic pixie dream girls, but with Instagram? 🤣
That's just a succubus
I once saw a French film from the '80s called Betty Blue, which had the standard Manic Pixie Dream Girl. However it was much more realistic, because rather than end on Happily Ever After, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl phase ended and she became Depressive Pixie Nightmare Girl.
Hmmm I gotta see this! 😛 Like how it veers away from the standard manic pixie happy ending haha; but was the ending from the viewpoint of the protagonist or manic pixie herself?
do u know where i can watch it?
I wouldn't call her standard, she was literally showing signs of BPD throughout the film
I loved that movie, which is uncharacteristic of my taste in movies...
I would say the rolls are reversed in Betty Blue. While she is wild and liberating. He is much more representative of the 'cool bohemian artist type' that is being obsessed over. In terms of the relationship, he is just along of the ride. I think that's the root of her emotional break down. She's obsessed over getting him publish and he is already so resigned to the fact that it isn't happening that he doesn't share in any of her emotional highs and lows.
Fantastic video, Ana. As a guy who spent his 20's at the height of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl craze, I definitely had my share of unhealthy relationships because I put too much pressure on women to be a fix for the problems I had instead of dealing with them myself. In fact, this almost led to me breaking up with my now wife of 8 years (it's been a great 8 years!) after 1 week of dating because I built up unrealistic expectations of what a woman should be and how relationships should work. So, thanks for the accurate and detailed breakdown of this stereotype, and reminding us that behind every "dream girl" is a woman with hopes, dreams, flaws, needs, etc that are just as important as any the person who'd seek to be with her.
"Sad lad to sensitive Chad" got me good.
I love that line so much
Does anyone else remember "Stargirl?" She literally says "I'm NOT like other girls" in the second book lol.
THERE’S A SECOND ONE??????
the first one was cool ig but the second was a trainwreck 🤚 really wish i didnt watch the movie
💀💀💀 my favourite book in 5th grade. had to unlearn a lot 🤪
@Unojhiir0 Yeah I haven’t seen it cause I feel like it’s not going to portray the characters correctly
@@tigerleddy THERE’S A SECOND BOOK???????
I just watched a video explaining the trope and it used 500 Days of Summer as an example, which was to my dismay considering it's one of my favorite films. Glad you cleared that up.
No worries! It's frustrating seeing people miss the complete satire of it all, haha.
It was by Alex Meyers right?
@@MrCordycep sameee that's the video that led me here lol
@@ana-isabel me
Lol. I’ve followed the same CZcams path.
You missed the biggest Manic Pixie Dream Boy in the entirety of cinema: Jack Dawson (Titanic). It's completely insane.
Great analysis! I was so, so worried that you'd lump (500) days of summer into the trope and was pleasantly surprised.
She really loved him until she also died after having a full life after only knowing him for like a week that's some strong juice
I still can't believe they took Jughead and made him into a bad boy. I grew up on Archie comics and I would never be able to take Riverdale seriously.
Its bizzaro world
Ugh same, it got so popular and I'm just like the destroyed everything about Archie! But most people I guess didn't read the comics
It's absolutely awful don't bother with it
Neither the comics or the show are meant to be taken that seriously.
"Are you a simpleton?!?" He's such a mood, sometimes.
That's the Malkovichest thing ever
Dang, I loved him in birdbox and in the Red movies LMFAOOOOO
@@flidethechemist Yes! His character in that might be my favorite.
Step one: pick a supermodel
Step two: erase their backstory and any possible flaws
Step three: random quirky bullshit go!
Step four: fill them with youthful energy
It's true that the women playing these characters are white and conventionally attractive but they're not supermodels. That would imply that they can't really act, lol. A lot of these actresses while not favorites were done dirty when they were cast into the more taken straight version of the trope. The majority of them are pretty great imo
@kibblewibble I got more a "cool kids" vibe from her before she disappeared. Not really manic nor pixie
@@hugofontes5708 cool girls are still supposed to be perceived as “different from other girls” just as mpdg are so she counts
Step 5: $$$
I would love to see a story where the facade falls apart and the quirky girl is just as a terrible person as anybody else.
I'm so thankful when people reiterate that JGL in 500 Day of Summer was really the problem in the relationship and I have always hated how his meeting Autumn at the end of that movie revealed he learned little to nothing from his selfish behavior.
Great video! Keep it up!
Tom is supposed to be the villain of the movie and I think that Autumn’s name is Autumn for a reason. Maybe he will change after Spring leaves?
"a John Green ending" I've never read a John Green novel where the romantic leads end up together but somehow the name John Green has become synonimous with happy endings for the romantic protagonists? When did that happen?
I've read one and that was "an abundance of Katherine's "
Should be “a Nora Efron ending”
Yeah, I was gonna say. Paper Towns and the Fault in Our Stars both end badly for the main character, and they were the ones she referenced in the video.
@@BuddyHollyMallCop Turtles all the way down too
Don't get me started on a Nicholas Sparks ending
While I think Ramona is the poster girl for MPDG, I fail to see how she is one. She’s the one with the baggage and constantly causes problems for Scott and hardly ever seems manic, expressive, or dream like. Of anything, Scott is the manic pixie dream boy since (at least in the comic) is loud, brash, childish and naive. I think she gets a bad wrap for being so closely tied to a category she hardly belongs in. While yes she literally appears to Scott in a dream and her fashion sense is wild, I feel like Scott and Ramona’s relationship is in itself a parody on the trope since the both have aspects of it
ramona complicates scott's life due to conditions beyond her control. scott complicates ramona's because he is weak and a coward
Ramona doesn't take scott's shit (especially comic Ramona) but she demonstrates that not only is she non-judgemental but also does not tolerate assholery she's aware of, other than the ending. Movie Ramona and Comic Ramona are very different, thats why they initially wrote and shot that different ending because it made a bit more sense.
But... but... but... the hair! And the music! And she banged Chris Evans!
tbh, while I don't think she completely fits the trope in the movie, I think this is portrayed a lot better in the books. Love the movie, and it's definitely weird and ironic to see Ramona become the poster child for manic pixie dream girls, but honestly she was pretty thoroughly reduced to a more blank slate character that's mostly only there to fulfill Scott's arc, and it doesn't do much to drive home the point that the books do: Scott is a childish fucking asshole who has been acting selfishly the entire time, reducing his life and his romantic interest to an achievement in a video game and alienating all the people in his life with his refusal to grow up in the process... and Ramona isn't the mysterious, perfect dream girl he makes her out to be - she is also very flawed, in ways similar to Scott, and he needs to stop projecting his unrealistic, exaggerated fantasy onto her. in the movie, i don't think nearly as much can be said for Ramona's character growth, & she kinda just forgives Scott for cheating without batting an eye. And as for Scott, he earns the power of self-respect rather than the power of understanding, which makes his character growth a lot more selfish, & he doesn't really gain any self-awareness of his own assholery by the end, at least not the way he does in the books.
It does make some sense, given that the books definitely had more room to explore the characters & themes, but it's a little disappointing IMO cuz Ramona is a pretty great character and Scott Pilgrim as a series does a better job making a point out of Scott's toxicity... The books seem a lot more nuanced & mature in how they explore dealing with baggage and unmet, unrealistic expectations in relationships, where the movie is more of just a fun action story by comparison.
I feel this also applies to summer in 500 days. I think MPDG as a trope sometimes is overused and wrongly purposed to describe girls that are actually nods or critiques of the trope. Scott perceives Ramona as his manic pixie dream girl, but she is not actually that. Tom perceives summer as his manic pixie dream girl but really we learn that her purpose was to teach us a lesson that they don't really exist. It is a very thin line obviously as both are shot and costumed and acted exactly as manic pixie dream girls. But I feel like it's important to note that they are truly not. People can be too dismissive of things or characters just because they are popular.
I like this, but as a Peter Pan nerd : He isn't Manic Pixie Boy.
1. We get his backstory not only in Peter Pan the book but in other books written by the author.
2. His lack of character development is 100% on purpose. He is a metaphor if not a flat out personification of childhood. When Wendy, the protagonist, chooses to go home, she has realized she can't remain a child forever and must grow up.
3. It is very clear Peter is extremely flawed. He's easily angered (being willing to kill his own Lost Boys), stubborn, and arrogant - which is again the whole point, he's the personification of childhood. But his flaws have serious consequences in the story including Tink's near-death and the abduction of Wendy and her brothers.
4. Despite his lack of maturity being the point, Peter does have growth. He learns faith in Tink and empathy.
5. Wendy doesn't choose Peter, she chooses growing up - and Peter doesn't choose Wendy, he chooses to remain a child.
Peter isn't a Manic Pixie. Don't be slighting my boy that way.
But everything else I agree with.
Edited to add- it's not a coincidence that Wendy's father and Hook are almost always played by the same actor in movies and plays. Her father is the one always pressuring her to grow up and mature, to contrast with Hook who foils Peter as everything Peter fears - adulthood. Both Wendy and Peter have these major adult figures in their lives who symbolize change and maturity and what it can do to your hopes and dreams. For Wendy, adulthood equals adult job and responsibility. For Peter, adulthood equals corruption and death and lack of fun.
It is absolutely on purpose that one character, Wendy, chooses to face her fear by returning home, while the other (Peter) confronts his own fear (the final battle with Hook) but accepts that he is and always will remain true to himself even after losing almost everyone he cares for (Wendy and the Lost Boys).
The metaphor and symbolism are big tools of the author's and anyone who wants to handwave it away by reducing Peter Pan to a Manic Pixie Boy has both missed the entire point of story and has done little to no research.
I scrolled down to the comments specifically to look for someone saying this, thank you.
Thank you! Peter Pan is my favorite book and I was so upset by the accusation.
... it finally clicked. I never thought much about Peter Pan but that all makes sense.
And the crocodile with the ticking clock? The one thing all adults fear; time and its inevitable running out resulting in death. Great comment.
We did the play a bunch o times when I was younger, fkn love Peter Pan
Wow that was a really thought and well written character analysis
I was peacefully drinking a glass of milk but then the "I don't fit in" edgy riverdale guy appeared and I almost choked.
I hated that scene so much, haha. "I'm weird, I wear a hat!" Lol oh my gosh
thats what you get for drinking milk 🤢😂
Kinda why I didnt like the Flash in the Justice League movies(2017 and Sack Snyder cut). When he meets with Batman, hes the most awkward thing that ever happened to the DCEU and its as cringe as it gets. That and he runs like an alien that came to Earth and has never heard of the concept of running.
I have a love/hate relationship with that scene lol
I can't believe so many people thought Summer was so awful because she didn't give him what he wanted. I saw it back then as a realistic interpretation of how relationships can end up. I didn't think about the manic pixie trope satire or any of that at the time. However, it also goes to show how many people projected themselves onto the main character in a "he's like me" kind of way, which should say, "fuck, I need some help cause this guy is a bit of a dick." And how many others just expect a "happy" ending when happy isn't one person feeling trapped and the other blissfully unaware until they are finally left probably decades later.
Could not agree more. As a naive teen back in the day, I admit I was one of those who felt for Tom and was disappointed at the lack of a "happy" ending.
Watching it again in my mid-twenties (with actual experience in love and relationships), I realize how immature - and at some points, toxic - his perspective was. I guess the film sort of grows with you in that way. But yeah, any grown adult who sympathizes with Tom may need to re-evaluate why.
@@ana-isabel I was more, "oh cool he's moving on." Now I'm like, "oh no, please run from him he needs to work on himself". I am writing a book with a with a manic pixie type character but I don't believe that's how she fully comes off as. I am going to ask an editor at some point though. However she's a lesbian, and I want to explore more that she's barely got herself together ofc. I did put in a whole, "fuck that manic pixie bitch" quick joke, and her being like, " what? Idont like sad boys. I dont even like boys. Although manic pixie bitch would make a good band name." Since this book is about five friends starting a band in their teens.
Not THAT many people interpreted it that way though, hence the great reception of the film
@@crytkryssus9851 iiii4iu4iikiii 4ii3ii99 and imkkiooi.. miiii8iiii3i33i33 ew××ii88iii8iiiii7ppuui8
Not to mention, Joseph doesn’t learn his lesson at the end as you see by his reaction to meeting “Autumn”.
I would like codependency torn down from the media trope. Relationships don’t fix you. That’s your job
I'll be sure to file a complaint next time I visit Media Trope headquarters.
No one can "fix" you but yourself, but loving someone can give you an incentive to be a better person, and someone who loves you can help you feel like you're worth fixing.
@@cmay7429 As someone who has dealt with mental health issues for several years, I can tell you that I had to "fix" myself in order to change my life for the better. Wanting to be "fixed" isn't enough, I had to take concrete actions towards healing and I had to make that decision every step of the way on my own.
No amount of love from family, friends, and significant others, can help you if you don't want/try to help yourself. It's a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.
Don't get me wrong: having loved ones supporting you is great and can be a motivator to continue on a path towards healing, however, one needs take that first step and to make the necessary changes to get better (it is an action not merely a "want/desire.") If I didn't change and take better care of myself (i.e. fix myself) no one else could have made the progress for me. If my "feeling better" was dependent on love from someone else, it would make my wholeness/healing dependent on the feelings/existence of others. Other people can't be my primary motivator to getting better if I want to actually be healed. I have to want it for my own sake independent of others' emotions or thoughts. Otherwise, if that loved one leaves or no longer loves me, I would go back to being "broken."
The ideal partner is someone who can take care of themselves, has their life figured out, shares the same core beliefs/lifestyle, and, is open to growing older with you. Lacking in one if these areas may become the source of stress, fights, and dissatisfaction in relationships. Love is a choice and one has to choose wisely.
It's just the standard escapist fantasy of being rescued from your situation. I'd suspect that this also preys on men who have trouble initiating contact or finding motivation in general, in addition to general loneliness. I suppose an argument could be made that these are prominent examples of relationships shown as positive in media of the time, but you could just as easily argue that anyone who's getting sincere life advice or role models from random characters in said media has bigger problems.
@@farmerboy916 life's a joke and then you croak
Ramona isn’t a MPDG in the comics: she’ actually a really complex character, and in the end, she leaves Scott for a bit to find herself (her words, not mine) then comes back, and fights with Scott to kill her toxic ex, with a scene about how she wasn’t completely over him, but parts of her were. It’s amazing.
Then, after that, she has a talk with Scott about how she doesn’t know if she can change from her asshole-ish ways (my words, not hers) and Scott asks her to try.
In the end, she’s free of Gideon, and she’s trying to be a better person.
THIS. Everytime somebody uses Ramona Flowers as an insult I’m like “well...” and tell them this.
Still a mpdg.
i kinda blame the movie for it, the movie really made her an icon for manic pixie dream girl trope
@@MrTibbs220 have you read the comics?
I agree for the books. Since the movie focuses on the action and surrealism, I think even if Ramona qualifies, it has a different impact on things. Ramona doesn't show Scott the meaning of life or get him to embrace being himself, and she doesn't really do childish it quirky things. She didn't get development and mostly functions to push Scott's, but that's mostly incidental.
The MPDG made Zooey Descenal’s entire career, either playing one or playing someone who makes fun of them.
Ironically, in "Elf" the Maniac pixie is the male.
I'm a creeeeep. I'm a weirdoooooo-oh. lol
lmao
What the hell am I doing here?
@@ScionStorm1 I don’t belong heeerrrrreeeee
@@spookyjones6577 sheeeeeeeee's running out the dooooOOOOOoooooor
@@janaekelis sheeeee's runninnnnn, she RUN RUN RUN...... RRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNN!
i think the test of a MPDG (or boy) is this: if there were to be a "this character was imaginary the whole time" twist at the end, and the movie would generally STILL make sense, they're a true MPDG
Hold on... is Tyler Durden a dark MPDB then?
@@fifthcolumn388 DAMN... i think he kind of is!! a manic pixie nightmare lol
cough im thinking of ending things cough
This helps a bit, I wanted to draw some cute shit about a girl helping a boy through some shit mentally and him maybe returning to do the same. but I kept worrying that would be this trope. And I've heard so much about men objectifying women I've started thinking I would never be treated as well as a gay couple because any man would never empathise with me as much i emphatised with him, I fucking hate internet polictics and i fucking hate twitter for the anxiety it gives me. I just want all this to stop.
@@fifthcolumn388 this crank up the homoerotic tension present on the movie to another level.
honestly I think that, while we need films about realistic love with deep characters, we also need love movies that are not deep and just make you feel good and fuzzy and dreamy
We had enough of those decades ago. Then we had even more and it just made more of Joseph Gordon Levitt’s character in 500 Days out of actual people who could have been better people or at least had problems that they could have recognized they needed help fixing instead of having all of society prop them up as not-problems.
correct
My favorite parody of this trope is definitely from Arrested Development! I even saw the actress who plays the MPDG in the ep in one of the clips you showed, so I learned it had another layer to it today! The main character was so into this whimsical fantasy of a girl 'filled with childish wonder', that he fails to realize she's actually mentally handicapped.
This parody actually hadn't crossed my mind until some people pointed it out in the comments! I now have a newfound appreciation for that plot, and it was already my favourite of the series :) Agreed - defs one of the best (and most entertaining) deconstructions out there.
I also thought of that lol xD....Mr.F
Disney's+ Stargirl fits this dated trope perfectly.
I frankly loathed that film for it's unnecessary changes to Stargirl's backstory (where's her father?) among other things, and for the high school being a bit too diverse. The book gave off this vibe that most of the students were rather similar. They came from similar backgrounds, wore similar clothing; these students were basically carbon copies with a side of "normal" cliques mixed into a mundane existence. Which is why Stargirl's unique essence stood out straight from the beginning.
Plus Disney's+ version of Stargirl is nothing more than a dated Tumblr aesthetic. I believe she wore something that could be considered outlandish once or twice during the entire running time. At least they kept her pet, Cinnamon.
To be honest, I hadn't actually seen the entire film apart from trailers, random clips, and a few reviews. Didn't quite strike me as a stand-out teen movie (probs 'cause it screamed MPDG with its marketing), but seeing as the film seems like a haphazard adaptation - is the book worth a read?
@@ana-isabel
Yes, it is.
Stargirl's character might appear similar to a MPDG, however, she transcends such an ideal rather quickly. She's polite and unique, yes, yet her personality does verge on being "creepy." Something that isn't fully explored in the film, which I feel takes away from when everyone begins turning on her. Even Leo, the narrator and actual main character, thinks about turning his back on her because his reputation could be more important than their relationship.
@@MyCuteApple definitely agree the book is really good!
@@MyCuteApple I agree! It is a good read. When I saw disney+ doing an adaptation of it, it didn’t strike my interest because it feels like it’s missing some key things from the book. Basically the things you mentioned in your comment.
I wouldn’t consider Stargirl a manic pixie. She has a story of her own in which ***spoiler warning from here on out for anyone that may be reading*** she’s pressured to conform to the fantastical ideals that the classmates and even Leo want her to be and she goes through her own journey where she conforms for a while and it eats away at her until she finally takes ownership of who she is and that being herself is the best option, even if it makes all these “stick to the status quo” type characters uncomfortable. Even when Leo learns to be himself too in the end, she’s happy for him, but she doesn’t stay in his life. She’s aware he isn’t good for her cuz he wants her to be his manic pixie dream girl. And in the end she moves and cuts ties both with everyone in that town (including Leo) as well as the things and ideals they were upholding her to.
I loved Summer. I watched that movie at the right time in my life. She was independent. She didn’t need anyone, especially I needy little boy. She found what she needed.
I would love to see what the movie looked like from her perspective
Yeah, it's awful to be needed, isn't it
Zoey Deschanel’s character in “Yes, Man” had absolutely horrible taste in music. It’s one of the recurring gags in the movie.
Interesting! What music did she like? I feel like music is so subjective. Although if someone listens to country music I usually say they have bad taste because it SUCKS.
I saw her on the thumbnail and thought “she better not shit on New Girl”
"Black rap"? WTF?
@New Life New Rules not really
@New Life New Rules Chile what?
Have you seen the trailer for Stargirl? Trope is alive and well! Lol
I read that book and i can imagine
It’s just staying true to the book, which for it’s time was still kind of new
@John D Ruddy Yeah, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl Trope isn't going anywhere, nor should it. For the most part I don't think there is such a thing as bad tropes only bad writers, the MPD trope doesn't need to die it just needs to evolve.
The book came out in 2000, so I guess the trope was new at the time.
I’m a big fan of the book and think the second book is even better than the first. The first book is told from Leo’s perspective and it’s all about what he thinks of her. But without spoiling it I’ll say her whimsical mystery shtick doesn’t last. The second book is entirely from Stargirl’s perspective and really develops her character and is all about her figuring out what she wants and who she is. So I feel the books break down the trope as they go but I’m not sure how the movie handles it, I haven’t seen it.
The Paper Towns movie totally butchers Margo’s agency at the end so I wouldn’t be surprised if the movie forgoes Stargirl’s character development to give audiences what they expect.
İ was really surprised to see such low counts of subscribers. You deserve more
Aw, thank you so much! That means a ton! 😊
Same!
Talent doesn't come with a sub count my friend! CZcams is art no statistics.
I know right? I just found her and I love this stuff!
That Riverdale clip with jughead is some of the cringiest dialogue i've ever heard lmfao. And I love Ruby Sparks, also an interesting break down of the manic pixie trope and the idea of having a 'dream' partner.
Honestly when you know the backstop of the staff writer who wrote that scene and the showrunner it both gets worse and makes sense.
@@JinMeowsoon Riverdale is an interesting show in that there are 2 ways to watch it - take it seriously or just laugh at the goofiness of it. iamthatroby has a good video about it - czcams.com/video/KQKIs7d7zJM/video.html
@@dudetheman3 the cast doesnt even take riverdale seriously.
That is the least cringe line riverdale too 😆
@@dudetheman3 Absolutely. It reminds me of the Fear Street books, Goosebumps for teenagers. Basically cringy, over the top, fun, with murder.
What are your thoughts on manic pixie dream girls?
🌺💕
🕝TIME STAMPS:
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2:45 - The Problem With Manic Pixies
12:01 - "Manic Pixie" Misuse
19:18 - From Film Critique to Tired Term
21:20 - Death of the Trope
OMG, I actually just spent the better part of the day musing over MPDG nostalgia, movie clips of characters that were the fantasy fulfillment for the void in my life at that time, my youthful phase of ennui. I also continued into several articles going over it and it's overuse/misuse and went back, did a re-eval of some characters. I read some of the same articles you've shown and that article from The Guardian with Zoe Kazan's quote led me to looking at other tropes that sprung up, like the "arthouse stud monkey" lol. (Leslie Felperin coined "arthouse stud monkey" for the hirsute chaps (Michael Fassbender chief among them) who pleasure the women of publicly-funded movies. Or you could cite the Plaid Gastronome, seen in Chef and Drinking Buddies, who covers up emotional uncertainty with hipster food trends and Urban Outfitters clothing) Plus side to this, giving me more movie ideas to view while stuck at home, and a surprise that The Big Sick is a true story Kumail Nanjiani and Emily wrote it together, I hadn't gotten around to watching it before, but will move it up in queue now. Great content, I enjoyed it immensely, the yt algorithm got it right lol, you got another subscriber.
@@willreaver2295 Oh wow, firstly - thank you the thoughtful comment, it truly made my day! 😊✨ Happy to have my thoughts on a topic (that's interested me for the longest time, as someone who spends a good chunk of her days reading into movies and popular film tropes lol) resonate with someone else! Also happy to hear you've added The Big Sick to your list, it's definitely a rom-dramedy unlike the others; sweet and funny while touching on issues of culture and illness. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did!
AND YES - hahaha I definitely did stumble upon the "arthouse stud monkey" and "plaid gastronome" during my research, along with the MPDG's precursor: the "cool girl". More interesting tropes that I mayyy explore or reference in future content. :)
Thanks for subscribing, looking forward to making more deep-dive vids like this one!
Some sweeping generalisations coming here but... I think when people first meet they fill in a few personality aspects of each other. If it's a good first impression, the mind will fill in the blanks with assumed traits and characteristics based on a mesh of what they hope to be true and similar people that they've come across already in their lives. This is how media can be dangerous because it gives us these lazy caricatures that get bundled in with people we've "met" before. The life imitating art thing.
I also think that this is how we end up with personality "types" - most relationships are a social game of fitting together and people react to how they're being treated based on how they're perceived - the "call me a monster and I'll act like a monster thing" but less extreme.
Please do a video on this - it's been fascinating me for ages (and kind of weirding me out)
Thanks for the timestamps
Lou from Me Before You is the perfect example of flipping the MPDG trope. The bubbly, quirky, crazy fashioned girl is the narrator, not just a prop. We see her experience not JUST happiness but loss, frustration, anger, insecurity, desperation, anxiety, trauma, and a feeling of being lost. We even get to see that the reason Lou became so “different” and picked up her crazy fashion was because she found dressing herself in bright colors and childlike accessories helped her cope with a sexual assault. It’s like JoJo Moyes wanted to write a quirky character but didn’t want the flaws and struggles to get lost in the quirkiness and I think she did an amazing job at that.
Yeah that movie has other problems but Lou’s character isn’t one I actually think she was done very well
Eternal Sunshine was so great (Directed by Michel Gondry, Charlie Kaufman did the screenplay). Great video as always!
Ahhhh dang! Hahaa thanks for the correction on this one 😛 Yesss, Eternal Sunshine is one of the best scifi films imo - definitely has stuck with me all these years. And thanks so much!!!
(also did a quick lookup of Michel Gondry - dude went on to direct Green Hornet?? 🤔)
@@ana-isabel You're welcome. Have to confess that I haven't seen Green Hornet. Michel originally made a name for himself doing music videos, so I went to see Eternal Sunshine based on that alone having no knowledge of the plot which I think was the best approach.
@@domstevens2851 DEFINITELY the best approach! :) I did the same when I watched it for the first time - went in blind. Though I think the experience would still be mindblowing either way. 😊
@@ana-isabel Gondry hates Green Hornet, he had no control over it. If you loved Eternal Sunshine and its weird effects you should watch L’écume des jours (Mood Indigo) its way closer imo
Hear to say the very same thing, otherwise I sprocking loved this video.. definitely earned my subscription!
that clip of the one Sprouse twin saying "im weird" had me rofl-ing so hard
Interesting how many sadbois misinterpret “500 Days” just as Tom misinterpreted “The Graduate.”
Same thing happens with Fight Club
Tom is the most dangerous character in all of cinema
I think that I represent the misunderstanding, of people’s misunderstanding of the film. I used to love it in my early 20’s because I sympathized with Tom and thought Summer was a bitch.
For not actually getting back together with him.
Now I hate it in my 30’s because I feel like it pushes a dangerous masculine agenda where Summer is painted in a negative light for having her own agency and growing as a person (if you consider developing the ability to commit as a sighn of growth) and Tom is “meant” to be sympathized with.”
Weird that another reply mentioned Fight Club because I have basically the same feelings about that film as well. Two movies that at one point were in my top ten and now I can’t even watch because they carry too much baggage :/
@@kode-man23 And you don't feel that it subverts those ideas, that it is actually critical of its characters and those kinds of readings?
@@MyScorpion42 I would probably have to watch it again. I haven't seen it, save for video essays and analysis in quite a while, so maybe I could parse out the meaning that I am supposed to get from it.
But from what I remember, I think that I am "meant" to identify with Tom and dislike Summer on a surface level, but then the movie is winking at me and nudging me in the ribs with it's elbow the whole time saying "But look, you see how HE'S actually the jerk in this film. You see? You see what we did there? You get it? You should be on the girl's side, but then we're not going to go out of our way to make sure that you, the audience actually has any sympathy for her by the end of the second act."
I get it, at least I think that I do. I also get that as a filmmaker you don't want to be too obvious, but I just feel like this leaves a very dangerous message that most guys who only watch it at a surface level, or going to walk away with. And it sucks, because I am almost certain that that wasn't the intent, and I hate having to use an argument of Art vs Intent, and it isn't the artists job to make sure that their art isn't misinterpreted... but I just feel like this was more a case of execution than intention.
Sorry for the rant, like I said, I have a lot of baggage with this film and my opinions on it changed almost 180 degrees and almost over night so I could just be way off base and completely not remembering the specific nuances of the film that disprove how I feel.
The irony is that Ramona Flowers herself, despite being the #1 or #2 most famous MPDG, breaks the stereotype in an interesting way. She's depressed, not manic, and Scott's love for her -- his stupid, toxic-masculine, goal-oriented love -- is what breaks her cycle and lets her accept herself.
Lol Masculine. Scott Pilgrim.
@@Psychedelicgothicpink Lol Truth can sting, and hurt. But it isn't toxic, because it's ultimately good for you.
Funnily enough, I feel like Ramona Flowers got hit by this a bit in the transition from comic to movie. She still has her own character going on somewhat, but she feels more like a pedestal girl in the movie, while in the comic she definitely had a more distinct personality. IMO it was probably just an issue of runtime, the comics had many issues to break everything down, while the movie just had one 2 hour cut you were meant to watch in one sitting.
My view on Scott Pilgrim is that the comics has many issues to break everything down, while the film has many issues to break down.
The Scott Pilgrim cosplay is accurate as Ramona is a deconstruction of the MPDG.
That's so true the book gives it away alot more then the film, they're both horrible people.
But those cuts and Ohhhh the filming ohhh and captain america is a skateboarder
@@deezboyeed6764 scott is also awful, they kinda deserve each other if anything
I love that film, LOL. Yes everyone in it is annoying.
@@eyeamstrongest that's literally what I said is they're both awful, book gets it across alot better.
Everyone, a wonderful book written by bo jack horsemans writer called "someone who will love you in all your damaged glory"
Is a beautiful collection of short stories and poems on love of all kinds. Marriage, family, pets, loss and its voiced by a wonderful cast on audible.
Nice pfp bro
Excellent breakdown and analysis of the trope!
Completely irrelevant to your channel so no I won't be watching
@@whiteydiamond ?
it's... a little weird to me that you're wearing the hair and the goggles and even show a clip from it but never actually discuss Scott Pilgrim
I was hoping she would, I feel like there is a lot to discuss there, be it the comic or film. I absolutely loved the movie and would love to read the comics, but from what I've seen and heard, it would appear that there is a lot to dig into and unpack there.
@@I_was_a_Bullfrog She does at the very end. It's short, but it's there.
@@LilEuphie Yeah, commented before finishing haha. Still, a full video on the subject would be awesome to watch her unpack and discuss
It’s the irony
maybe because ramona isn't a mpdg like everyone tries to paint her as
Gone girl is a good subversion of the manic pixie dream girl trope, the ”cool girl” trope.
By subversion you mean she's a psychopath?
@@mr.scarfy6851 yeah but that’s not the point of the comment tho lol
I don’t know if the woman in Gone Girl was presenting herself as a MPDG, but it was a fucking fantastic movie holy shit
Wouldn't that be more of an inversion?
"If cancer were pretentious, it would be Garden State." - Mr. Plinkett
@Stix N' Stones
"I made a product in Vietnam when I was a Colonel over there. His name, or her name, was like Sung-Yee or… Yung-Woo or… something. Ah, it doesn’t really matter anyway cuz I think the napalm got him, or as I called it back then, birth control."
-Modern philosopher, Mr. Plinkett
ahhh, I see another man of culture joined the comment section.
I think an interesting take on this trope would be this. It starts out standard, guy is unhappy with his life, he meets the MPDG, she shows him how to live, but then he decides he should also seek therapy. While in therapy he is told that people express depression in different ways, and some people even seem extra happy, but their really hurting. The guy then thinks of the girl, and goes to see her, and he finds her in her bedroom crying. The reason she seemed so bubbly and perfect was because she was trying to hide her true problems.
Sometimes i worry about what the manic pixie dream girl did to our culture in a way of making that mens ideal women. I know alot of guys who seem to be wishing they really exist.
Yes, I dated a guy so miserable. He actually told me he wished I would cheer him up more, like his other female friend could.
I mean, I agree with you but a lot of women describe their perfect man as Manic Pixie too.
I may be wrong, but I feel that the trope of Manic pixie, despite Hollywood using mainly woman, is way more unisex than most people think and it's toxic to expect someone to show up and solve your problems in your place.
@@hondshoven8477 IKR. Partners are partners not therapists. You should cheer each other up sometimes but you should try to build a circle of supportive loved ones instead of relying on only one person to make you happy. That's too much pressure. It turns into blaming the person you are supposed to care about the most for your own unhappiness. No, you just accept that sometimes you are happy and sometimes you are not.
And women who strive to be that mpdg... god knows I’ve tried being that girl to just eventually embarrass myself lmao
I wonder what happens when a mpd girl and mpd boy get together. Is it one of those couples that are same kind of weird and just awesome together, or does it become a dangerous mixture of too much.
You going "so wut's the metaphor" at Gus made me sigh in relief, because I've read that book 6 times and I still don't get it.
Bruh so true
Does he even know what a metaphor is? _NO_ he just wants to be qUiRkY
It's more of a symbol than a metaphor, since it alludes to an idea rather than an actual thing
Same thing has pretty much happened to the "Mary Sue", originally legitimate criticism of a character who is basically a plot device and not a character, overused to the point of becoming a reductive, dismissive, casual insult.
Cough Rey cough
Mary Sue isn't a plot device. Mary Sue's are characters that represent the author. While they are often a perfected version of the author would like to envision themselves this does not mean that every overpowered flawless character is a Mary Sue.
It's when people say "Mary sues are not a real thing, just an insult" that you can bet money that they've written a mary sue character. But then you also get people who will call anyone a mary sue because they dislike some small aspect of the character. For some, just having the ability to succeed at all is enough to mislabel a character. It really is a world of extremes when mary sue talk comes up. Being the nerd in the middle, I came up with a little quiz to test the level of sue, and which category they fall into most. To my shock, this made people even more angry... I see it as a valuable term for a serious problem. But more often than not, the way it's used really helps you find out if the reviewer is a dumbass or not. It does tend to say more about the person, than the character they're describing.
The only instances where you see invalid Mary Sue criticism, is when someone is using a what-about fallacy defending an actual Mary Sue character.
@@conniethesconnie Mary Sues and self-inserts are two separate things, why else would they have separate names?
Just a small correction, "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" was directed by Michel Gondry not Charlie Kaufman, he co-wrote the script with the french director.
A co-worker of mine is like a real life manic pixie dream girl to a lot of people as she is like an extroverted, pretty dork. But because I never lost sight of the fact that at the end of the day, she is just another human being, with weaknesses, and problems of her own, I was closer to her than a lot of people who DESPERATELY wanted to be close to her, just so that her joy rubbed off on them. It can be dehumanizing to be thought of as someones manic pixie dream girl.
She has joint issues, and we worked a laborious job. So some co-workers would laugh as she made groans of pain, or fell, because theyd assume she was joking. Even after realizing she was really hurt, they would respond by trying to lighten the mood, by trying to make her laugh, while I would show real concern, because I dont hold her up as this ethereal, indestructible being, whose only purpose in life is to cheer me up. I just think of her as an enjoyable, real and raw person. Not to give myself a pat on the back for it. Just saying to be considerate.
You work on a very fucked up place. Jesus, they laughed at her pain?
@@zakazany1945 You've never done any real work before, have you? Yes, they laughed. If she broke her arm hard enough to see bone and there was blood spurting anywhere, then they'd help immediately, but "my joints hurt and I have to move boxes around" or something similar to that is just a normal work pain, to be minimized and normalized.
would you mind sharing what labouring job you are in
@@zakazany1945 Like I said, theyd assume she was joking because she constantly jokes around. Its not because they were bad people, but because she was such a lighthearted, positive person, it was hard for them to see her as a person who could actually hurt and have issues.
@@Thalanox Well, everyone is different. Like when "I" would fall or get hurt, it usually wasnt a big deal. I was just clumsy, and would recover relatively quickly. So I would rather people laugh than show concern for me, just to make me feel less embarrassed about it. But she had surgery on an ankle a few years prior. And even prior to learning that, I would take her falls seriously, just because you never know. And wouldnt you know? A serious fall is ultimately what took her out of the job.
The manic pixie dream girl has been around, and it will be back. They were once called Pollyanna's back in the early 1910's, were in fashion for a while, then disappeared, evolved a little and remerged as the Pixie girls we know today.
These tropes go in and out of fashion as time rolls on, people weary of one archetype, so they move on to another, and then the one they abandoned is rediscovered years later by another generation and seems fresh and new once more.
The Pixies will be back. Maybe they will be called the Sunflowers next time, or be named after another character as the Pollyanna's were, but they will be back.
This is because, most character archetypes are derived, at least somewhat, from actual people and traits, exaggerated and refined slightly, but still recognizable. Most people know a very exuberant hyperactive young girl, so a manic pixie dream girl or a Pollyanna strikes that chord with them.
Before we lay the manic pixie dream girl a rest, I'd like to see a black girl version of this.
The closest I can think of is Lee from Hav Plenty as the magic pixie dream boy
Me too...
I kinda want to make a story about it now. While watching this video I realized how people portray me as a "manic pixie dream girl". (I'm a black girl, btw.)
THANK YOU. Tropes can be harmful, but I often wonder if it would be so bad if we black women finally got a trope that wasn’t related to “angry, sassy, and masculine”.
When your representation has one major bad trope that you see so much you would appreciate seeing another bad trope in its place.
I really liked how you defined the MPDG. I personally liked both Elizabethtown and Garden State and didn't really understand the hate of the trope, because... well... there are girls who are manic, have good taste in music, and have quirky personalities.
Your analysis that these characters didn't really have any character development, but were just there to help the male lead develop was really insightful. I hadn't heard that before and I agree that 500 Days of Summer doesn't fit the trope, because her character does change over the course of the film. However, Elizabethtown, Garden State, and even Scott Pilgrim do fit that description and it does change how I'll watch those films.
What's funny is that even without knowing the term MPDB, I was able to recognize their artificiality in movies pretty easily before watching this video. I couldn't have articulated what was wrong as well as you did, but I could see something was off, whereas my wife loves those kinds of films. It's interesting how we can have those blind spots when it comes to our own fantasies, but see them so clearly and baldly when looking at the fantasies of others.
I think I'll still enjoy films like Garden State and Elizabethtown, but I agree that just knowing about the trope helps writers create more fully fleshed out characters. It also helps audiences demand more from writers. Thanks for sharing this.
Aw, no worries! And yeah, I think we've all been guilty of giving in to our own fantasies/biases, while being more aware or critical of others' (I've been there!). Glad I could offer my insight on this trope!
Wdym? Ramona is a deconstruction of the trope. Her whole shtick is that she’s actually a flawed and troubled person but Scott doesn’t acknowledge it at first, just like in 500 days
The random hamstertunnels are bordering on parody lol
"She saw Ramona Flowers and felt so empowered"
Wow, I’m 14 and this is deep, says a lot about society....
"By a movie made in hollywood hahaha"
you know that song is like super misogynistic right?
@@averagepinkhairedperson czcams.com/video/BLUkgRAy_Vo/video.html
An entire generation was apparently ruined by movie, that bombed. Hard.
Thank hell Scott Pilgrim’s trending on netflix, if it wasn’t for that, i wouldn’t have searched for this trope, and seen this brilliant analysis/essay on the topic 👍
Awww, thank you for the lovely comment! 😊 Glad you enjoyed my take on the trope, and happy to hear that SP's trending over on Netflix - what timing!
@@ana-isabel I'm assuming you're a fan but I'd love to see a breakdown on Ramona Flowers and her place in the trope lol
@@Ichsukatanuka I mean her hair is a good hint
The movie kind of botched ramona because of having to condense the runtime and that scott was originally supoosed to end up with knives. The movie plays the MPDG straight when originally in the comics ramona was kind of a commentary on the trope as she was just as much of an asshole as scott as she had commitment issues and cheated a lot. Here's a more in depth exploration of it since I can't explain shit:
femalefortitude.blogspot.com/2012/10/this-one-girl-with-hair-like-this.html?m=1
They are re-releasing SPvsTW the Game early next year on Nintendo Switch~
i'm so glad that people started recognizing that the misuse of this term has become a misogynistic way of criticizing any sort of "quirky" girl in a story. At the height of the term's usage I started to become really paranoid and self-conscious because some of my own personal tastes fell in line with some of the stereotypical characteristics of MPDGs... I started to feel like I needed to change myself out of fear people would think that I was fake and pretentious. That's when I realized that the trope usage was beginning to really spiral out of control and just became another way for people to cram others into boxes to make fun of.
I legit thought she said "I love the Smurfs".
Manic Zombie Dream Boy: "I liek turtles"
Not going to lie. I clicked because she's dressed like Ramona.
Still slaves to the edgy alternative girl
Yet she didn’t even talk about her! It would have been interesting to hear her talk about how she is written as a crappy trope in the film, but actually is well written in the graphic novels and is a subversion in some ways in them, at least to the og definition of the MPDG.
@@RainyDayAnimations she did literally right at the end! like, 24:12
Thanks! Didn’t notice it bc it was like the last 5 seconds, lol.
same
I had a friend who dated a Manic Pixie dream girl. She shaved her head, smashed his windows and attacked him with a bat when he tried to break up with her.
Like, she trained her pet bat to attack on command, it was so quirky.
So that's how Corona really started
Once an ex-boyfriend of mine called me a manic Pixie dream girl right to my face I was very insulted
Lmao
blegh, that sucks. I had a similar thing, basically came away thinking, well it's not my fault you don't listen to me or ask me questions. love your profile pic!
sorry for your loss
Same lol
But that's why he's an ex.
_Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ is the best deconstruction of the MPDG ever made; and a truly brilliant film.
Have you ever read "Voice of Our Shadow" by Jonathan Carroll? It's a really dark deconstruction of the trope, with the main character even being called a "leech" by the end. It's quite good. :D
One of if not the best film from Michel Gondry.
I wouldn't say Ramona Flowers is a MPDG. If anything, her and Knives Chao are subversions of the type on both ends. Ramona is a literal dream-girl who's pretty grounded, sees through Scott's "nice-guy" act, and carries a ton of baggage who control her love-life. Knives is manic and free-spirited; but is treated as a disposable-date who refuses to be disposed-of.
I’d love a movie where the ‘ problematically written’ MPDG ends up having a Fight Club style twist ending
This, but put the MPDG in an actual fight club.
YES
@@MattGarZero MPDG AS A FIGHTER
Manic Pixie Bro?
Brad Pitt WAS the manic pixie
The manic pixie dream girl/boy (MPDG/B) is basically a hot, Cartoony Jiminy Cricket or the Devil/Angel on your shoulder to tell you to throw caution to the wind and live life to the fullest. That's why they seem so surreal. They never really talk about their origins (family, education, work) and they miraculously make all the time in the world for the main character. Just as you would summon a helpful spirit guide, MPDG/B always seem to be up for 3 am deep conversation skinny dipping sessions and never seem to be at work ever again, even if where you met them was their place of work. It wouldn't be crazy to think that the whole time, MPDG/B was a figment of their imagination to help them cope with their grief and/or depression.
When you referred to the MPDG as an “illusion”, it brought back this old idea I had for one of my stories, wherein the depressive male main character fell in love with a girl who was naturally energetic and fun, but along the way, it becomes clear that the person he was trying to have a relationship with is a figment of his imagination trying to search for something positive in his life. The idea was that his issues were rooted in his own optimistic naïveté and that the girl he created in his mind was him searching for solace and validation of that mindset.
I'd read that
Sorry gotta call out slight error: “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” was not directed by Charlie Kaufman. While he wrote the screenplay, Michel Gondry was the one who directed.
to be fair, who didn´t dream about a beatiful/cute girl/boy who is dedicated to make your life special and exciting ? Everyone who have (or is having) a miserable time with his/her own life and feel super lonely already have at least once a fantasy about a manic pixie dream girl/boy
I think the part that makes 500 Days so painful is when you find out that Summer gets married to some other dude at the end. You spend all this time empathizing with Tom, and you feel for him when she dumps him. But at the same time you understand that there's no villain in the story, they were two people on different pages. She was up front about her feelings on love and what she was looking for, so if Tom let himself believe that something more was possible; that's on him.
But then you find out that she marries some other guy, and you realize that Tom wasn't wrong. It was possible for her to form that kind of connection with someone, just not with him. Either because of bad timing or because of their personal dynamic. I think there is a unique sort of powerlessness that comes with relationships, because you can't change how someone truly feels about something. You can't logic someone into believing you're the one, or make a convincing enough argument. You either are or you aren't. In that scene at the end of the movie, Tom realizes that it wasn't actually that she didn't believe in it; she just hadn't felt it yet. And the fact that their relationship came and went, then she found it with someone else; means he was never going to be it for her. I think that's a painful realization that you can't rationalize away or make excuses for. You can only stand there and feel it gut punch you full force. And I think a lot of the undeserved rage against Summer comes from people feeling that energy, and having no place to send it. So they aim it at Summer, because on the surface it can look like she lied to Tom. But she didn't, she's just feeling what she feels; at different points in her life about completely different people. So it's like being mad at the weather, you can be as mad as you want but it's not going to change anything.....
** It also sucks that you never see the guy she ends up marrying at all. You don't get to see if he's similar to Tom or completely different. If they're similar, you could convince yourself it was a timing thing. If they're very different, it could have been a personality thing. But instead she just implies that she discovered feelings she didn't think she could have with some off screen rando. **
Meanwhile in anime
>Be Mc
>Have a boring/tragic life
>Meet girl
>Fall in love
>Learn to live again
>Girl dies
>Dear Arima Kousei...
Welp
*raises hand* Can I point out another huge, huge factor of the MPDG trope is the girl being young and pretty. I know you briefly mentioned this in the video, but it can't be understated that the (Sad)Boy has an undeniable attraction to her, which kicks off the #1 reason for boy's transformation.
Should the character be an older, concerned parent/boss/friend or a fat/gay/same sex friend/relative, they will be ignored or "not understand." Her underdeveloped history and singular motivation to help the boy veers toward feeding the "Male Gaze," as the things she says are more significant to him due to the sexual attraction/tension he has for her, becoming her biggest reason for existence = for his redemption or pleasure.
What about Maude?
@@michealhenry3132 I was abt to say lol
Kathryn Hepburn "bringing up baby"
Melanie Griffith "something wild"
Madonna "who's that girl?"
Sandra Bullock "forces of nature"
And that's off the top of my head. Sometimes they get together and sometimes she helps him move on...
Diane Keaton in 'Annie Hall' (one of the few older examples I know)
Julia Roberts "Pretty Woman"
Liza Minnelli in "the Sterile Cuckoo". ( Come Saturday morning, I'm going away with my love. ) Saw it in my teens & was quite taken with Pookie Adams, tho' she had...um...issues.
@@ricomarez7834 Annie does not theaches Alvy how to live she actually brings even more problems to him cause she very complicate and incompatible to him
I love The Smiths is our generations biggest red flag😂
The Smiths suck
Morrissey is a douche
I will not be convinced otherwise
Morrissey is an asshole but I can’t help liking the smiths. Trust me I hate it too.
but johnny marr's guitar work is of no doubt respectable and inspiring anyway
I like the Smiths, but I don't think they deserve the credit they get
@@hannahl3538 Morrissey is one of the few intelligent musicians around
oh my god, I loved this video! This was a wonderfully done video and I myself being a big fan of Summer and Clementine completely agree with you on that aspect. It was a very refreshing take on this trope that a LOT of people miss the satire. I'm a big movie nerd myself and pay a lot of attention so maybe that's why I actually LIKED those characters. Anyhoo. Can I just say---you are rocking that blue hair and the whole look is amazing!! Can't wait to see you get more subscribers! xx
Ahhh thank you so much! 🥰🥰 Glad you enjoyed my take and have the same appreciation for Summer and Clementine's characters as I did. I'm also surprised by how a ton of people miss the intentional parody/deconstruction. Glad to meet a fellow movie geek, hope you enjoy the future movie/pop-culture content I have in store!
And oh man - I *wish* I could keep my hair this colour, hahaha! (Unfortunately, with how sensitive it is it'd fry up if I tried)
I actually dated a real-life “Manic Pixie Dream Girl”. It was fun for a while. And then it wasn't fun at all anymore.
Don't leave us hanging...
(respectfully)
@@1tbspjasmine easy
She actually suffered from mania and she was bipolar
@@1tbspjasmine Look up "Borderline Personality Disorder"
I would think that 'date' dating isn't the usual MPDG way
I was like that, I had no psicological disorder, I just saw myself in some of those characters I guess, but there was a moment that I started to feel less and less like myself... and then things had to change, I couldn’t live for somebodyelse happines.. I had to learn to say no
The misuse of tropes and terms in cultural critique is very common: people regurgitate any term they read, even if faultily applied. Plot armour, Mary Sue or MPDG are thrown around without much thought. However, while I agree with the rest, I will contradict you with your assessment of 500 days. Great video though, suscribed
Very true, I've often found myself guilty of this. Next to "manic pixie", "Mary Sue" tends to be another hot term thrown around haphazardly.
Glad you enjoyed the video though - and I am curious to hear what your take is on 500 Days of Summer!
You know what I want? I want one of these manic pixie dream girls to be the villain of the story. The try hard, the overbearing one, the one to constantly try and weasel her way into other people's lives. Other people are rightfully creeped out by her overbearing nature. "Quirky" is only quirky when the other person is into it / if the manic pixie dream girl can pull it off. If not, they are annoying, possessive, and creepy.