Sonic Frontiers' Prologues
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2022
- Let's talk about a little thing called "Transmedia Storytelling" and why I think it can be one of the most frustrating ways to present a story to your audience.
#SonicFrontiers #StoryTelling #Transmedia
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The second Sonic live-action film ALSO had a prologue comic, by the way. It was basically what Sonic was doing between the first and second movie. Remember those weird mercenaries that Eggman briefly encounters and defeats? Yeah, the comic revaled that they were actually hired by Knuckles.
I can't imagine him having the knowledge to hire a merc, I don't even think he'd understand the concept of currency
But what made Sonic 2 acceptable was because Sonic 2 still had a good story and narrative on its own. The pre-quill comic was not a REQUIREMENT for watching the film.
Essentially, the Sonic movies are not like the MCU where you need to do homework
@@alchemistofsteel8099 movie knuckles is dumb, but not that dumb. he just doesnt understand some social aspects, like he doesnt know how to have fun, as hes been completely alone as a child
This comic was great not gonna lie, but I really disliked how Sonic's story alone took up 60% of it. They had to put:
-Tails
-Knuckles (chaotix appeared in it as a cameo btw)
-Eggman
-AND agent Stone
's stories in the leftover 40% which kinda made them feel kinda scuffed.
@@DrognMaster5729 Movie Knuckles has a warrior mentality. That does not mean dumb.
Heck, he's able to read, which is something Boom Knuckles is incapable of. Heck, Knuckles in the games can actually translate ancient Babylonian.
Eggman is a first-rate archaeologist.
He should work with Knuckles and Rouge more (when he's not trying to take over the world and/or turn Sonic into roadkill).
He’s so good he proved the existence of God three times (Chaos,The gaia twins and Solaris)
I understand that it's confusing for the story to be scattered the way it is. But I enjoy it when they tease us with stuff like this. I just hope that the prologue animation and comics are unlockable in the game itself for everyone to enjoy
No esperaba verte por aquí Escody! que por cierto, completamente de acuerdo con tu idea al final.
Hola Escody
Grande
From what I've read and from what Flynn has said, the stuff that's in the Prologues isn't important enough that you'd need it to be in the main game.
Vaya Escody no pense verte aqui xD
[2:37] Nano machines, hedgehog!
Memes aside, I'm a firm believer that 'supplemental material' works better for 'recontextualization' rather than the vehicle to deliver the main story.
You've got your main story and it has everything the audience needs to understand everything. But supplemental material could answer one or two questions about an event/character/place that wasn't necessary for the audience to understand everything else.
Agreed. To supplement this comment, as a writer I know there's information that a series of media may lack due to editing - whether content is changed, omitted, added, or outright rewritten (in my case, anyway). An entire series can change due to this, ranging from the video's examples to like what happened to FFXIV: A Realm Reborn.
If SEGA could streamline the organization of their "supplemental material" or even just include it into the original medium, whether a game, show, or comic, from the beginning they could be much more cohesion to the Sonic storyline. I love TailsTube and the direction of the IDW comics, but they would serve the overall brand better as separate entities rather than outlets for any given main story.
I'm not sure what happened, but it feels like actual storytelling has fallen to the waste side in favor of shock value, trendiness, and "hype" clout rather than a narrative with any longevity, resonance, or staying power. I've noticed this rather disheartening and disturbing fad, and to see it in Sonic's games this last decade has given me mixed feelings about Sonic Frontiers, now. Not fault to any who is excited, though; I just hope there's a change...
Sonic Chronicles had this problem too, there was a bonus story included in one of the Archie comic issues that explained how Knuckles got captured which it's only mentioned in the game
like with comics in general long as the expanded content is not fully required to have a good experience with the main material it’s perfectly fine an super awesome
Eh no offense but who cares if the Sonic comics are different from the games?
I'd rather read the Sonic comics than Marvel and DC anyday lol.
@@cnjetixnicktoonsenjoyer2002 didn't say that, just said you had to read it to know how Knuckles got captured and it also explains why Tails wasn't able to use the Tornado at first which he used parts of it for a trap that didn't work
@@stomper1232 I know that, I'm just saying I started to find the Sonic comics and mostly the Ninja Turtle ones alot more enjoyable for me now than what DC and Marvel has (*excpet for the Mangaverse lol.)
Um... that's wrong, we don't SEE Knuckles get captured in Chronicles, but it isn't "only mentioned", Knuckles actually gives a good description on how it happened, he ended up fighting the Marauders, pretty effortlessly apparently, then Shade came out and gave him a more decent fight but he was still able to beat her, however, right before he could the other Marauders jumped in and overwhelmed him, thus he got captured, the game explains how Knuckles gets captured pretty well in my opinion.
I think it should be included in the game as an unlockable. after beating the story you get the prequel in a gallery room. then you should see that there's a few more story-related things that you can unlock to get the whole story.
(that way whether it's a comic or video version of the story you'll know it exists and you'll see a bit of it if you finish the game)
Agreed
You already know it exists right now, I don’t understand the complaints.
It’s a double edge sword for me, it’s a mix bag. On one hand, I appreciate the free content that they’re putting out. Going out their way to produce that. On the other hand, if you’re going to include a piece of media that helps explains the story. Then it should be imperative to note what you’re doing needs to answer some questions while leaving some questions unanswered. Fulfilling that purpose, however, don’t create a piece of media that does nothing for the plot of the game. Not saying it’s a bad thing because it’s free content but if I’m reading something I want the media to give some context that can have more mystery, leading to people being curious and excited to play the game.
I can't express how much I loved this video and how much effort it must've been to express your thoughts on it. I know I already said this in the comments but thank you for doing this. I pre-ordered it and want to experience this in it's glory. Can't wait to hear more.
Yup
huh you can donate in comments now wow
@@whoasked9500 yep. Don't do it often but this video was just that good that I had too.
@@destroyershy96 cool and I agree
wait can u donate money on comments now?
On Twitter, the writer Ian Flynn has already confirmed that the story of Frontiers is a complete product without the prologues. He says they are just gravy and the game is a full meal.
So, do you mean that these prologues provide only a little more explaination about the game but aren't necessary to understand the story (like Sonic forces did with its prequel where it showed why Dr Eggman didn't fear the virtual sun)?
Looking forward to watching this later, I agree with the whole not having stuff in a game that is important to the story is dumb. I don’t hate it, especially when the animations and comics are really nice, but it’s just weird. I can’t wait for Sonic frontiers. 💙
According to Ian Flynn, none of the Prologue stuff is important to get into Frontiers.
@@darkhorse744 would be interesting if you could unlock it inside the game, either through rings, or achievements, or whatever.
@@minasthirith6314 Certainly, but since they're going the path of making the Prologue stuff not have any important info shoved into em, you wouldn't be missing out on much.
They'd definitely be nice to have in-game though.
@@darkhorse744 That's good. I was worried that it would be super important to see or not.
@@goldenninja9053 Seems like they really learned a lot from Forces.
No putting important lore in easily missable materials.
First off, thank you for this video. It taught me so much in such a short time. You explained so much and did it in such a way that I want to see more. 2nd, can't wait for your thought on the game.
I like your Blitz0 pfp
@@scottwock3753 thanks
To be fair, with Sonic Mania Adventures, you can tell that it takes place after Sonic Forces due to Classic Sonic entering the video waving. It’s not important to Mania or Forces, it’s just a fun event of what Classic does after Forces
True
I’m honestly impressed that the captions for the video are up and running less than an hour after it was posted. I’ve never seen that before. That is commitment.
My guess is that the prologue comics and videos are used to bring the different sonic fans together, like let’s say there’s a sonic fan who only likes the games, then there’s one who only likes the tv shows, and another who only likes the comics, well now the story of fronters is spread out for all three of fans and they can communicate about them together
Simple theory: They goofed up and changed things during development. Forces' leaked script had Infinite be a creation of Eggman, they retconned this by introducing the Phantom Ruby, which had to tie into Mania as well. So the Forces prequel comic had to retcon Infinite's past and reintroduce a new story and then tie into Episode Shadow.
We may be seeing something similar. A story detail changed. Not enough context. So they had to get some tie in adaptions to help explain the new retcons. Which would make sense since Iizuka said they had to scrap earlier versions of the game and start again.
I don't mind outside supplemental material that ties into videogames but only if it adds in addtional content and lore to an already self contained narrative.
We should wait before passing judgement on the Frontiers prologue but I'm not a fan of locking plot important content behind different medias. On the brightside at least the comics and animated short is free, I still remember first finding out that a lot of the story in Balan Wonderworld was locked behind a paid novel making it the (rotten) cherry on top of that "experience".
Still cautiously optimistic about Frontiers tho.
... Well, I mean, the specialty of comic books is that they excell at adding context and character to existing universes. Charri literally says that during the video, like, that's the answer.
On top of that, Sonic comic, movie, and TV series fans make up a good like, at least massive sizable section of the fanbase as a whole. So yeah it makes sense that more promotional work would come in the form of comic books and animated segments.
Video games are even better at doing this exact same thing, though.
@@Kingdom850 They really aren't. If anything those are the things most video games struggle the most to get right.
@@Acidicstudios Depends on the game in that case, good writing helps out a lot. Sonic infamously doesn't have that lol
@@Kingdom850 Dying Light 2.
Nuff' said
Imagine if certain characters backstories weren't explained in Undertale and instead you had to go buy a bunch of comics to understand them. If Asgore's tragic story wasn't explained, then you wouldn't feel anything while you fight him, if Asriel's tragedy wasn't explained, you wouldn't feel as much for the kid. The game wouldn't as much of a critical success if you took away elements like that. The incredible what made Undertale so good and special to a lot of people including myself.
You really put a lot of thought into this, and this is why you’re such a great creator to watch. Most of the time when I see videos like this or, heck, even just talk to somebody about something, I walk away thinking “I get what he’s saying but I feel like he’s leaving out a lot of details to make a statement like that.” But with you that’s never the case. You consider and explain everything and take into account as much as you can gather, and it’s a mindset I wish was much more common.
FUN FACT: Sonic Boom: Shattered Crystal also had a short prequel comic. But unlike the others, it was digitally bundled in with the game. It's among all the cutscenes and music tracks, and it doesn't need to be unlocked.
total mood. I miss games having STORY cutscenes IN THE GAME is that so hard to do?
There are cutscenes in the game tho
this was a really well put together video, and im starting to want more of these video essay type videos, your input's really interesting
One thing this game could do (which is something I've really missed from video games from the PS2, Xbox, and GC era) is have these prologue animations and comics put into the game in an extras menu that you could unlock as you progress thru the game.
I know everybody and their sister could watch a cutscene on CZcams, but unlocking a scene that turns out to be a prologue or supplementary material such as a character bio always made things feel held together
Sonic has always had comic tie ins with his games. Even in the Archie days. Just smile
And wave boys. Smile
And wave.
True
They keep making them cuz the interest in these materials were always there.
I keep showing them love and support since I enjoy them.
I figure just like the other supplementary materials it's not gonna take away anything from the game. I've never read a Kingdom Hearts Ultimania book, but I don't feel bamboozled out of a story or anything.
People don't even know the names of the Night of the Werehog Ghosts, but it's still enjoyed.
Think it just comes down to how much do you wanna know or consume about the stories?
Unless your ear is to the ground for Sonic stuff, you'd likely never hear about them
I personally think they did this for promotional reasons or because of time but I do agree that it is weird to not just have all this within the game itself so thanks for sharing your opinion on this matter Charriii
It would basically be extra work and a useless thing to need. It would be the same thing if they just had it in the game. They do the comics and animations for extra promotion.
I love this style it’s just interesting to see stories like this the issue is how their is l8ke no advertising for the expended content
i get your point but i will like to see it in the following way; they give a taste of what the story is going to be like without giving the main dish. at the end of the day is just promotion and that should not drastically affect the major plot. this is for those who are curious and want too know a little bit more. plus is still money for the artist working on them
Diversity of content leads to innovation.
It's why we have Ian Flynn, it's why we have "Robotnik", it's why we have so many little bits and pieces that worm their way into the mainline games. It speeds up evolution and is a wonderful testing bed for concepts and ideas.
Did you know that many of the innovations and special features of Pokemon games were derived from previously tested ideas within the trading card game?
Many series use multiple formats to great effect and the multiple formats will also importantly serve as advertising too, perhaps drawing in people that may not have gotten the game on its' own merits.
Yeah, there's no problem with diversity of content. Some people are better at writing comics, or TV shows, or games, or movies, or shorts. Having all of them leads to more people being able to touch the series, which leads to more possibilities.
But this... isn't that. Having the IDW comics as their own thing running continuously as we get more games, plus Sonic Prime and the live action films is good diversity of content.
Pokemon, for instance, has an anime, which is its own thing, plus the games, which are their own things, plus mangas, which while they're usually adaptations of games, add WAY more content that completely changes the story. But it's not like Pokemon Black came out and N cryptically followed you everywhere and never explained who he was until you picked up a prequel manga which explained he was Ghetsis' son. Each game tells its own complete story without needing you to look at something else.
This sort of thing is a very Japanese thing to do, and I for one think it's fun in a funny way for people to be confused on how much they have to jump around to piece together story. Other brands like Tsukihime and Asure Striker Gunvolt are far crazier with manga, audio dramas, ovas, and concerts, to piece together the lore in the middle of the games.
On one hand, it's really cool to see the world of Sonic get explored through avenues other than video games, because the series as a whole is very much full of interesting ideas and questions that the games themselves just never bother to answer sometimes. And even that aside, the characters themselves are just fun to see interact.
The animations like Mania Adventures, Overdrive and Rise Of The Wisps are nice because, despite essentially being fancy and well-made advertisements, they're also fun little bits of content that can be enjoyed with or without the respective game, but things like the Forces comics are harder to appreciate because they're basically in a quantum state. They're just free mini-comics posted on Twitter, so they can't be massively important required reading... buuuut they're also supposed to be prequels to Forces' story, so they can't just be taken as purely individual works. So they just come off as meaningless additions that don't warrant more than a "huh. neat.inconsequential
Also, I can't help but find it weird that they announced Frontiers Prologue back in June, alongside actual gameplay, and yet we've not heard about it since, even though we're less than a month away. Why bother mentioning it at that point? Unless they just REALLY needed something to say in that one Sonic Central besides "look here's Shadow in Green Hill!"
They did the same for sonic forces, and it was a little extra backstory for infinite before he took on the mask and phantom ruby as infinite. So they are often willing to put in bonus stuff like art concepts in a extra option within the game. But instead put them out as standalone comic etc when some of it would give us a bit extra insight for whatever is going on in that game's story, be it character or plot wise.
I feel the same way for not needing the comics to really be made for the prologue. I’ve played these sonic games and since I was a kid I just went with the flow but the more I grew up I started realizing how weird the story is because some things just aren’t explained, to then also realize it’s because I didn’t know I had to read a comic beforehand to understand everything. I feel like they should really just put everything into the game and have comic adaptations for the game so that everyone understands the story and we all equally enjoy it
I’m briefly rewatching the premiere right now and already enjoying it. Again I like the change of plans, have fun with the stream later today Nahum! I can’t stay but either way. 👍
Edit: I just finished watching and I loved all your points.. it’s what got me to this channel in the first place about how you’d ramble and rant about the characters you dedicate yourself too. Most specifically, Sonic. Whom we both love, though I used to be “obsessed” with him a while ago lol- I really like how you came so far I know this may seem heartfelt. Either way I enjoyed it!! Continue with the great work. 👍
These prequel stories work best when the game itself doesn't need them in order to get the full picture, especially now that they are offered for free. One thing that was not mentioned is that overdoing cutscenes can make the game feel bloated, essentially taking away the main advantage it has as a medium compared to the rest of the entertainment industry. Games need to keep users invested, and cutscenes have the possibility of taking away said investment.
Devil May Cry 5 had both a prequel novel called Before the Nightmare, as well as additional content in the Visions of V manga.
The game on its own is pretty damn good story-wise, especially with some of the extra stuff like the letters in the game's gallery. The supplemental material isn't a requirement to understand the game, but it does add alot of extra depth that further fleshes out the main characters.
I think that's the perfect balance. A strong base to hold your intrigue that can stand on its own, while any supplemental material is optional and doesn't waste your time.
I like this format of video making from you. I would love to hear your thoughts on more topics in these types of videos!
Coming back to this after the prologue dropped, let me just say OH MY GOD THAT WAS THE RIGHT CALL. It's so beautiful, and it's definitely not like the forces prologue comics.
I completely agree with this. I'm kind of hoping they still explain what happened in Prologue in-game but in a different way like a brief scene of Knuckles explaining in a flashback while the animated short just conveys like all the visuals of what happened.
Sonic Movie 2 had a tie-in comic that was also a prequel and it explained things you genuinely wouldn't understand in the movie unless you read the comics.
I dont know if you saw already, but Ian Flynn has recently said on Twitter that the prologues are extra fluff with the game being a "full meal". Which says to me that we can read and watch them, but it is not required to fully enjoy the game.
I never noticed Zavok and Zeena didn't get a name-drop until today.
I feel like a lot of it would be rectified/negated if all the promotional material was contained as extras within the game itself (even if they throw in an arbitrary condition to unlock the content). It would serve a double purpose of being promotional material pre-release and lore containment post release without needing to make the extra effort to animate/present it within the game. And it's not like it can't be done: Unleashed had a series of shorts that were unlockable within itself and the storybook series loved adding promotional/behind-the-scene things that you unlock as you got the collectable objects/rankings in the game.
Storytelling it’s great no matter what we should always tell the real story doesn’t matter we change it but still we had to do it because it’s great contact.
Love your thumbnail art really great
I know it's not quite comparable, but this format reminds me of how Rise of Skywalker handled it's story.
In the movie, the story is a confusing mess at the start due to a lot of info and changes being unknown by the general audience... unless you were at the Star Wars x Fortnite event, played the VR Darth Vader game AND read a bit of the junior novelization.
Of course, Sega isn't THAT BAD with this, but I am seeing parallels.
Better than how Kingdom Hearts tells its story.
*_22 Days until The Day of Reckoning..._*
While I don't mind comics or extra animations, why don't they just put it within the game. Sure it'll probably take longer but they had all this time to do something with those pieces.
I really dislike that they basically say "Buy the extra stuff so you can get the full game"
For example, both Devil May Cry and Bayonetta had an anime made BUT they aren't required to understand the lore or world of the series because the games already do that
but both of this prologues is free what are you talking about
Neither is paid. And for all we know its possible that neither is mandatory to get full context on the story. I play a Sonic game for fun gameplay and neat stories n such, not so much for lore exposition that has always been in manuals and other supplementary material. I can always read or watch that stuff without playing the game. What would be the point of analysis videos and wikia articles of these details if we should ONLY get that info in one single product. Ever thought that not everyone wants to sit through hours of cutscenes or can afford the game at launch? Those are things that some of you forget to consider.
@@purplebruh947 yes while that is true, I feel like it's a lazy excuse then just putting it within the game.
Free or not, they should put more effort into the games than leaving pieces scattered about.
For example, the IDW comics contain lore from the previous games of Sonic BUT they don't require you to play the games in order to understand their story.
@@speedstarregeneration2573 Yes, you can play games just for fun but what's the point of putting an entire story within a game. Some people enjoy a nice story along with the gameplay
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild gives you the option to skip the story and head straight for the final boss, it's designed purposely for that.
If Sonic was only about gameplay then why did the classic games have elements of a story without voices. But as you mentioned, the manuals of the previous Sonic games had information about a few of the characters. For example, Sonic Heroes gave the characters a little biography. While that is fun, they don't give you the key information of the story, I shouldn't have to discover information that should've been in the game day one a whole year later.
Sonic Forces and Sonic Lost World are examples of what not to do with a story. They gave us the appetizer instead of the main course, when it should've been the opposite
@@mastertjt56 they come out before the game though, what’s the real issue?
really good video, I'm pretty much in complete agreement with what's been said here
I understand that take, but until we saw what story wise is required for Frontiers or not, all those are for now Bonus details...
Forces did the same : you need NOTHING about the comic, but if you want some more details... Well, it's there
Actually the comic is needed in Forces to full understand the backstory of Infinite and his Squad, and the Phantom Ruby. A video game shouldn't have to have it's players look to outside media in order to understand a story. Hopefully Frontiers doesn't do the same as Forces
@@thefastcommenter7774 forces comics never were needed, phantom rubies story is still a mess and jackal squad doesn't even appear in the game because shadow kills them off screen
I just want them to be included in the game as little bonuses. Kinda like how games give you concept art in the menu.
Just wanna say, you really made a great video! It's hard to say for me personally, as while I do enjoy free material that ties in with say, Sonic 2 and how what occurs in the movie universe further explains Knuckles's and Tails's backstory, I would rather have known what occurs in that to be in the movie. Then again, while the wedding scene was all cute and stuff, it dragged for way long than it should have been.
Still, It is what it is. I will still enjoy Sonic content at the end of the day because I have been a fan of the series ever since the 2000's. SA2 was what sold me onto the hype train for the blue blur, and tbh? I love how most of every Sonic game is unique on it's own. I do grow bored of some things that might make me try it another time, but I still take in every aspect of what it offers!
There are a-lot of good points brought up here. Great Video man! and to answer the question at the end of the video. I think it can be done, but it all depends on what you view is important enough to be included in the main package. i think the prologue with Knuckles is fine cuz we get to see a little tidbit of the story before the game. For all we know we may get a reference to it in game.
i do agree on the comic being a bit of a weird choice tho.
I knew you'd address this sooner or later
Imo I prefer when a main story is fully completed in the medium. But I also love how from software goes about story telling where after the main story is out the can go back and add things because they left certain small plot points open to do so. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t mind external media in the even that the story was already made in an attempt to flesh everything out, and they realized they didn’t go into enough depth on certain points.
As soon as I saw the announcement of the prequel comic, I thought," Oh no, not again."
Every time they do this, I feel like they should put the "prequel" events IN THE GAME.
Well, they did with episode Shadow in Forces.... They also went into the comics on top of that...
Sega's Logic is just confusing at times.
Getting Palpatine’s RoS Fortnite speech vibes.
Adding the prequel events would drag down the beginning of the game. People dont want 10 cutscenes before the game begins. They want like 1 or 2 at most, hell its better if there are none. Not to mention that animating the prequel cutscenes would take atleast 2 - 4 months for the animators, because animation that detailed takes a LONG time.
@@gamingnubs7628 doesn't mean they have to be literally at the start of the game though.
there were some "how we got here" moments in the series
I can kind of understand why some people would feel this way, but for me personally, I love it. It feels like a way for others to branch out and leave their comfort zone, allowing them to try different things and do something somewhat new for once.
820 people in 13 minutes a new record for yea charii. Nice content
I personally think Rise of the Wisp is incredible for the story of Colors. In the games, we don't have much "show don't tell", to give flavor to the world, nor a major threat that makes the characters want to hurry.
But in Rise of the Wisps, it's shown that they have to stop Eggman before he turns all Wisps into Nega Wisps. There's a feeling if emergency there. And the fact that it's shown to be a task that's way too big for Sonic and Tails alone is cool.
First: having all that stuff in different media is honestly a really cool idea...but like you said, you didn't know about a lot of it. I didn't know about MOST of it aside from the Mania animations, which I stumbled across, and the Forces comic that I only knew about because of a Sonic-specific CZcamsr.
Very small side note: 10 Cloverfield Lane had an ARG!?
I personally love the tie-in material, though thinking about it now it'd probably be better if it was included in the game in some form. Maybe like a "Prologue" section on the main menu that leads to the animation and comic? idk
Dude, this is super common in...a LOT of franchises
Thank you for letting me know tailstube is somehow canon to the games.... idk how or why but thank you
Not canon.
@@bakedbeans5494 dunno... the end of TailsTube has them literally pointing out Kronos Island and how they plan to get there with Amy, I'm almost convinced it is canon to some extend. It's a brief moment but it connects the story of the game, and it's not a real livestream anyway
@@NurulSera Spin-off media can't be canon.
@@bakedbeans5494 Not canon or canon? which was it????????
@@zestytriss5282 Not canon.
i think that the prologues are meant to be a sort of taster for the story of frontiers so people can see what the story is like before purchase
Late to the party with this but my way of seeing it is that when you leave the art form you are in when a story is in motion, you are expanding the Story elements/world. It essentially should rely on the main story to add that content.
When it fails is when it's the other way around. That in order for the story, at its base, to make sense you need the extra material. And not only that, but now that material isnt as accessible as the main story is.
Basically, these additions should be optional ways for one to expand their enjoyment of a story. They shouldn't be homework you make your audience have to search out to make up for errors in your story.
Shattered Crystal also had a prequel comic-book...that was unlockable within the game.
It's mind-boggling that people have to learn about the existence of a comic/animated series that ties in with a game AND have to find it on the Internet when they fixed this issue EIGHT YEARS AGO, in one of the worst Sonic games mind you.
Best explanation hands down
One game that handles cutscenes extremely well because they know they have the time is the Xenoblade Chronicles series, they're basically like, hey, we can do cutscenes however long we want and have gameplay at understandable times considering the type of game we are. And then they proceed to have a movie length cutscenes, followed by one fight in gameplay, followed by another thirty minute cutscene
from what we've seen from the promo of the comic, Eggman is probably still missing since Forces and yet the emeralds are still missing. for issue 2 that's where the the start of the game goes. hope when it's released they include these comics with acting/ extras
3:25 if you really want to get into the Metal Virus saga, I highly recommend collecting it in volumes or the Sonic IDW collection.
First of all, I'm glad you made this into a video because even if I disagree with the take, it's really cool to be able to disocever a new perspective in such a well structured way, so props to you for that. Second, if I come off as rude or aggressive, I apologise, it isn't my intention and communicating on the internet is hard lol.
That being said, you mention the point that the Prologue comic may just not be important enough to warrant being in the game and reply "why even bother making it a comic". But then you go on to mention Night of the Werehog and such shorts and say "those aren't important for the game, they're just for fun". Even if the Prologues are related to the story (albeit for all we know, again, could basically add nothing), then couldn't they also have been made for fun? And then you mention the Lost World comic, which add more important information such as the Conch... and you find that better? if anything, I'd argue it makes it worse because then you're missing out on potentially really important stuff on secondary material (if you haven't read the Forces comics, the Jackal Squad means nothing to you and makes you puzzle)
Furthermore, another explanation could be that including those information probably at the start of the game would be a bit jarring. Maybe it'll be worth 10 minutes of cutscene for all we know, so they thought it would be better paced as comics and an animation separately. Sure, Unleashed had 6 minutes of cutscenes as an intro, but from the leaked intro you've shown (which is already about 2 minutes iirc), Unleashed also had that kind of necessary set-up included. Meanwhile, the Frontiers prologue are probably more on the level of "how did Eggman find the Ruby" in Forces. Do you need to know that? No, as you mentionned, Eggman just finds his McGuffin everytime with no explanations. So really, it's more so fun extra info if you want to learn more about tidbits
Personally, I find extra media like that to be more interesting when it rides that line between new information and not being required to understand the main branch of media. How did Eggman meet Infinite/the Zetis and find the Ruby/Conch is exactly the kind of info that is just relevant enough to be interesting to see play out and just not important enough to be able to play the main game without going "huh? Where did that come from?".
Overall, I'm not trying to convince you because I think your opinion is completely fair at its core, even if there are some part of the reasoning I don't understand. Thank you for making the video and potentially reading this
The difference between the Prologue comics and, say, Night Of The Werehog, is that the Prologue's only goal is to lay down context for an upcoming narrative that is being told in a completely different medium. Night Of The Werehog doesn't exist for context, it exists for surplus content that does not affect the overall continuity. Depending on what is in the Prologue tomorrow, large chunks of the narrative have the possibility to be left out of the game and only be achievable through another artform. Some people aren't going to want to watch the animation or read the comics which could lead to the story feeling incomplete to those people.
@@Dragonceratops Sure, and that's a valid fear, but that would only be the case if the Prologue... did leave out so much information. It may tease the narrative, but that doesn't mean it'll have large swats of information that the main game will not bother explaining. It may pull a Forces and only bother to "explain" the Jackal Squad in the comics meaning that you have no idea who these guys are in the main game, or maybe it'll just be little tidbits like the Lost World prequel, which Charriii did say was better.
As I said, imo, you want your supplementary material to be interesting enough while not vital so as to not make people feel incomplete (while also being well written, might I add). Think of Movie 2's Pre-Quill comic: it's all non-essential information, but it does explain how Agent Stone got the Mean Bean Coffee. Do you *need* that information for the movie? No. Is it interesting to know how he got it? Yeah (imo). Would it work being in the movie itself? I don't think so
@@sirdrake1857 I think he thinks it's slightly better cause of how the characters are more enjoyable or something? 8:50
Thanks for commenting! This is super well thought-out and this is the kind of discourse I love to see: actually taking in what I said and deconstructing it rather than just saying, "But it's free, so who cares?" Or "It's just for fun".
Speaking of which, the reason it's tough for me to see this as just for fun (which, as stated in the video, I'm confident is it's purpose) is how secretive they've been about the story being told. They clearly value the storytelling this time around and them calling these "Prologues" make them intrinsically tied to the story. A story which they seem to want their audience to care for. It'd make more sense to me if they made a "Sonic's Day with the Kocos" or something like that, because you can read it and enjoy it as a self-contained thing. If what's in the comics isn't all too important to the story in spite of that, it seems weird to me that they would focus on creating something story-related or adjacent at all. The only constraints they have with games is budgetary, so they could very well design these story beats to be in the game, especially if telling them all at once would be too overwhelming for the player. Break up the sequences with levels, or tell those story details in another way altogether.
To address the Lost World thing, I may not have explained what I meant correctly: I think that the comic is "done right" because, aside from the panels it lifts directly from the game, it doesn't feel like it wastes anything and properly adds context that would have been nice to see in the game. Because you're absolutely correct, overall it's more frustrating because it feels like something of value was locked behind the comic. I more so meant that it at least it had something of value, that I still would've preferred to see in the final game, rather than plot elements or details that didn't add anything, or that no one needed further context for, like the Colors and Forces comics did.
Don't worry, you didn't come across as rude at all! I wish more people could offer a counterargument as eloquently and kindly as you did.
@@Charriii5 Oh god, the man himself actually replied. Engaging fanboy moment: OHHH SHIIII-
But more seriously, thank you for responding so kindly! It feels weird actually talking to someone you followed since... 2017? Good lord, but anyways lol
I'm no developper nor do I know much about game development cycles, but I do think they have a schedule and a deadline that they'd like to keep, and perhaps animating "all that" would take too much budget/time than it's worth compared to fixing bugs or solve the pop-in issues etc... that they'd like to priorities on rather than how Knuckles wound up on the Starfall Islands. They could just toss a single line in the main game to explain why he isn't with the M.E, and then leave the Prologue to further detail how that happened (although that is assuming the content in the prologues are somewhat big enough to warrant that "is it worth animating" question). After all, now that budget and the people involved in the Prologues are not from the game, but from different teams with different expectations (as much as I love that style of animation, seeing the animated Prologue just plopped in Frontiers where all the cutscenes are in 3D would be a tad jarring imo, but that's ok here because it's not in the game, it's outside)
I think the main crux of it is that it's difficult to judge it overall because... well, we don't know very much about the plot, so we can't really say properly if the content will be balanced properly or not. I can agree that I'd prefer seeing some of that comic content in the games themselves, but I think that there is a place for that sort of content from the moment it's free, easily accessible, well-written and isn't vital to the game. That being said, I may just be biased because one of my special interests is Sonic lore/canon of all things (Yes I suffer every day) and the comics give me moar lore so of course I'm going to eat that shit up lol, even if they're a bit inconsequential at times. But hey, I like to believe I can still acknowledge the criticism against them (partially thanks to well constructed opinions such as yours!)
But yeah, thanks again for reading my comment and allowing me and plenty others to hear your own perspective on the situation because regardless if it'll end up being well done or not, it's always cool to understand where other people are coming from (sorry btw for typos and whatnot, English isn't my native language and autocorrect's the worst lol)
pretty good video
I completely agree with you here. If you’re gonna make a game you should put everything contextually related to it in the game. A part of me believes that they’re rushing out another game before the holidays and it’s once again missing vital information and/or gameplay, thus having sega resort to cheaper means of story telling.
I want to feel optimistic about the upcoming Sonic frontiers prologue animation especially I can sort of understand why knuckles isn't with Sonic,tails,and Amy on the journey to find the 7 chaos emeralds that had been scattered throughout Starfall islands
@@Fan532 Yeah I know But I want to know on why knuckles get sent to Starfall Islands By the new footage and screenshot of frontiers that had knuckles at the desert area
@@Fan532 I believe the sonic frontiers prologue animation won’t come out until ether this Friday or the day before frontiers comes out
I think a good compromise was Sonic Boom.
For as disconnected as that series was: the 3DS game had a promotional tie-in comic, much like what Sonic Forces is doing now, which was completely readable within the game.
Apparently, Sonic and the Secret Rings did the same thing, with a version of the game being packed with a comic version.
All of these let you add on a little backstory or side story in a different medium, while also being available to someone who expecting everything to be in the one game.
Thats almost like the prologue comic to the Sonic Movie 2. It explains how knuckles arrived on earth.
I COMPLETELY AGREE!
Thank you.
I think a reason why the animation and comic exist separately from the game is because they'd have to add all of that 3D animation and models of areas and creatures that only show up once. The big crab robot in the comic would be weird to see in the opening of the game since the rest of the game doesn't have it. Similarly, the Chao in the animation never show up in the game since they'd have to make 3D models for things that are not relevant later. Frontiers gave off a vibe that it didn't have the best budget, so they probably couldn't afford to have all of that be showcased.
Like, think about Sonic Forces and how it's presentation couldn't sell it's premise at it's best, but if Forces were a comic book, it would have been taken a lot more seriously since the art can actually reflect how much more withered the characters feel throughout the war.
The first part of the comic was legit 4 pages and part 2 will most likely be 4 aswell so I assume the comics are like a mini thing you can do for fun
i think if they're going to do these promotional things it's fine, but only with the intenion of making sure no one is left out of the loop. best way i can give the example would be to have a message about any video prologue (potentially downloadable, already part of the game file, or hyperlinked) and then have any comic readable in game (sonic mega collection had this) after the product releases with the promo stuff coming out before. They could also including the same details in the main game just in another way. That is granted if those details are as nesscery to understanding the plot as they seem to imply by calling it a prologue.
I like the idea of having a comic and animation(only in frontiers) because all you know about the game coming into it is that sonic is all by himself in a mysterious island and that gives the game magic(like breath of the wild) adding the context of something mysterious should be outside the game as it ruins the point of mystery in the game
It would be cool if the game had the animation and the comic as unlockables, so you can saw it on the game too, like one of the Sonic Boom from 3DS did
The Lost world comic was actually originally a free comic given out at Halloween comic fest (think that's the name) I have that comic still Archie also had back up stories that acted as tie ins to the new games although only ones that seemed to be canon related was The Sonic Chronicles one which shows how Knuckles is kidnapped and one for Sonic 4 ep 2
Most others are more just retellings of the games beginnings or just bringing the new characters into the comics Universe.
Honestly miss when they did those in the comics
Depends on how crucial the info is to the story. Things like the Konk shell in Lost World and the Phantom Ruby in Forces should have been included in the game. Meanwhile, I think the Chaotix issue of the Forces comic didn’t need to be in the game. The more important the info is to the game’s story, the more likely it should be in the game. I don’t know if SEGA/Sonic Team think some info is not important. I don’t know what info Frontiers comic/animation is going to be, but I’m hoping its not story changing details.
Also, I feel like the amount of cutscenes in Sonic games have been reduced in recent years. Like sure, Sonic hasn’t been focusing much on the story, but even in Forces I felt like there weren’t a lot, or they weren’t that long. When compared to Unleashed at least.
Could just be for promotion stuff. With a prologue animation and comic it could just be there to try and bring (possibly new) people in by giving them these prologues so that they know what they're getting into for the start of the story.
Thing is, there's gonna be people who are not going to get the game at all and would rather just stick to watching a playthrough of it so it's a... lose lose situation? IDK.
It's definitely just for Promotion, Ian Flynn said that you don't need to watch or read either of the Prologue stuff to understand anything.
Reading the first part of the comic is enough to show how unimportant it is.
This is just another example of culture difference between the west and Japan. This is something that happens pretty commonly in Japan and since Frontiers is trying to build up its Japanese audience pretty heavily it makes sense why they would push with the multimedia angle. Many Final Fantasy games have had this done with audio dramas, animations, and Ultimania guidebooks.
I don't think Sonic Frontiers' story will be bad. But I don't think it will be deep enough to justify prologue material outside the game. It can easy be told in the game itself.
even in the first game
Eggman somehow finds out about the Chaos Emeralds and goes out to find them
I honestly see these as just a cool way to promote the games, the details they add may not be so important to the main story but are welcome.
Oh and IDW made a Team Sonic Racing comic too.
Well said
Now that I think about the forces comics if they were free why weren’t they in like an extra section in the actual game?
Supplementary media is a tricky thing. One game that suffered especially for its supplementary content was FF15. It made a small anime to help establish Prompto, Ignis and Gladiolus but that kind of stuff would have been nice to have had the game even if the anime was free on YT. Cause if people picked up the game and didn't know about the anime, then Noctis's friends would have seemed very shallow. And the Kingsglaive movie also creates an issue where a big cataclysmic event happens to Noctis's home but we only get to see the aftermath instead of experiencing the event firsthand. Have to go to the movie for that one where the Game Voice Actors have been replaced by High Profile Actors. FF15 suffered from many things but it all stemmed from lack of storytelling that had to be covered elsewhere.
It's not always about telling a story, y'know? Getting it out to the masses is what the purpose of this comic seems to be.
Grabbing the attention of the audience is very important in media like this to sell the product, and even once you have, you still have to maintain hype which is VERY prominent in videogames whereas other media will release one or two trailers, games release DOZENS of things to hype the game- the product- up. This is not the product. This is glorified advertising.
The comics are not neccecarily targeted JUST towards sonic fans and moreso those who dont know much about sonic. They might see it and go "oh huh this looks pretty cool i should check this out", i know i did.
In the end, i suppose fandoms are always bound to complain about the tiniest of things, not that theres much that can be done about it.
Agreed
He should've waited for the comic to actually come out before making this, or asked someone who was likely working on it.
Cus it's completely inconsequential and can be skipped over without missing out on anything, both the comics and the Knuckles animation according to Ian Flynn.
@@darkhorse744 agreed I saw Ian's comment to
Which makes this vid more anoing
@@siramaytheshowgundragon Definitely, too many Knee-jerk reactions when Sonic is involved.
@@darkhorse744 That's part of the reason why I don't like talking to most sonic fans
8:34 I'm starting to think he found alot more in Gerald's research journal than we know about and there is probably more to come from it
I think the Frontiers Comics will be more of a tease of what the story of Frontiers. I think the story of the comic will be addressed in the game.
As long as the self-contained story works on its own and doesn't act like a sequel to something else, I don't really care. I think side material is cool.
I think it may of been cut out for Pacing. It's possible they wanted to cut out the fat and keep the tone mysterious.
Man, it's just a couple of fun things to hype the fans until the game releases. It's obvious it won't be necessary to understand the story, just some nice curiosities to show how the characters ended up where they were at the beginning of the game.
It's like if there was a comic book describing the day before Crash was captured by Cortex... Would be a fun little addition, but not necessary to understand the plot.
As some have said, I'd like to still keep the best of both worlds kinda like Sonic and the black knight has done.
Keep the animation unlockable in the gallery just like Sonic Origins has Mania Adventure oddly.
I don't know if we still need to keep the comics coming tho' like you say cutscenes are the closest to an animation and the comics are a branch further removed.
The IDW comics are doing fine on their own so keep it consistent in a concise package to be consumed.
About the pacing and runtime restrictions, maybe that isn't the best way to describe it, as this could be similar to the restrictions on when the game should be completed for release; there are definitely time restrictions to where they must release the game, and as you implied earlier, there's a lot of work that goes into animating characters, either through drawing or in a videogame.