This Clock Measures Music Timing - DAY 5 - Marble Machine Flywheel Prototype
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 08. 2023
- Support Wintergatan:
- Patreon ► / wintergatan
- CZcams membership ► bit.ly/4cQVM7C
Marble Machine Engineering Discord Server:
/ discord
Video edited By Martin and Hannes from the Trainerds CZcams Channel:
/ trainerds
-
PATREON ► / wintergatan
CZcams MEMBERSHIP ► bit.ly/4cQVM7C
WINTERGATAN RECORDS ► www.wintergatan.net/#/shop
SPOTIFY ► bit.ly/2oKxXWd
ITUNES ► apple.co/2ntWNsZ
ENGINEERING DISCORD ► / discord
COMMUNITY DISCORD ► / discord
-
- It´s about damn time!
Day 5 has been great, lots of progress and we are getting closer to the real timing tests for the proto.
The prototype is designed to answer the age old question: Can I play tight music using a very strong flywheel? The new flywheel have 20x more moment of inertia compared to the MMX Flywheel.
We are recording at the wonderful location of Siegfrieds Mechanical Music Museum in Rudesheim Am Rhein, Germany. The museum will livestream the upcoming Wintergatan meetup 4-6 august on their youtube channel, check it out here: / @musikkabinett
Edited By the Glorious Hannes Knutsson From the @Trainerds CZcams Channel
Trainerds: / @trainerds
-
MUSIC DOWNLOADS ► wintergatan.bandcamp.com
WINTERGATAN RECORDS ► www.wintergatan.net/#/shop
SPOTIFY ► bit.ly/2oKxXWd
ITUNES ► apple.co/2ntWNsZ
MERCH ► teespring.com/stores/wintergatan
DISCORD ► / discord
SECOND OFFICIAL CHANNEL:► / wintergatan2021
- - Hudba
The marble machine x deserves its own video. Wonderful payoff
and its own song maybe...
Please do this, that will give you, and all of us, some epic closure!
YES!!! They need to cut a video to the level of the original Marble Machine video. Then the MMX will truly be complete.
I need it to be playing the base and percussion instruments too!!!
Using disc brakes from a car would be a good stopping system for the flywheel
You might want to have the brake clamp down on both sides, you don't want to have your flywheel getting pressed out of alignment over time.
fair point...
Consider a bicycle disc brake system. It's designed for... **badum tisss** braking.
@@johan.mp4no, that would be too weak I think. Because there's so much Energy stored in the Flywheels a bike brake would overheat I think. Brakes from a small car or Motorcycle would probably be appropriate but you can calculate that
@florianix8272 it would be more than enough. There's also bigger discs available for electric mountain bikes. Way less sketchy than a wooden stick, that actually works, but I wouldn't trust.
We've been over this too many times. The community screamed use bowden cables for MMX, but no. Use off-the-shelf components for the bearings and shafts, but no. And see where we are now 😜
I know that Martin was seeking perfection with the MMX... But after all his effort, and all he'd done... This is all I really wanted to hear. Something simple and beautiful on a gorgeous machine. Thank you to those who helped out.
Agreed. It was clear Martin was touched from hearing the MMX play too, which makes it all the more infuriating he didn't let it play in full before he put it down.
The MM1 was falling apart as he played it the first time, according to him, yet it has millions of views.
Just wait.
@@mickys8065 I completely agree that a music video like he filmed with the first marble machine would be a great finale of the MMX project and there is no doubt that it could've gone viral like the first one did even if he had to edit together multiple takes, but it's also very clear that short test runs like he did with the vibraphone, drums or bass including the melody played today are very beautiful on their own and sadly already close to the reliability and marbles per second limits of the MMX, so any music Martin could've composed for the MMX music video would probably not be far off what we've already seen. The MMX being taken care of and played at a museum while Martin can dedicate his work to the MM3 is probably the best outcome we could've hoped for.
@@Josh_728 People invested time and money into his project and after years of screwing around he just said "sorry!" and didn't even play a song on it. Sorry his life fell apart but he's had two years he could have used to play a song (any song, even a traditional Swedish song like he's done before). In this video the lady very politely implied "You could have made another video and it did what it was designed to do, but it was not reliable to take on tour." Martin could that as affirmation that it was okay to let everyone down. Sorry no.
You must have not watched his videos. He spent thousands of hours on the project. He was open about the machine’s viability. He even stopped accepting Patreon donations (or turned off the CZcams membership thing) because he felt bad that the machine wasn’t working out.
He wasn’t “screwing around” and he wrestled with the decision to stop the MMX. That was obvious in the videos. So take your incredible entitlement and go watch the original Marble Machine video if you want to hear a pretty song.
Margret and Ellie brought a tear to my eye. Please dedicate an entire video to them. I almost feel as if that moment gave me some type of catharsis. What a wonderful thing they did for the MMX.
they made MMX works but only "...depence what you ask of it" - it works slowly than it should (it seems for me), withoud drams, without guitar, marbles still falling out... Is it bad? Not, if you want to left this amazing mechanism in musem - it looks great and have own history)
But don't forget - all design problems are still there: if you will try to play "full" marble machine song, most likely everything "will explode" as before. Will Margret and Ellie be able to solve these problems? I think not, it's almost impossible, but anyway MMX will looks like completed!)) I was very upset when Martin did not finish it and left it as it is in a "disassembled" state
I agree. These people are amazing. Seeing their dedication has brought me close to tears many times this week. The MMX will NEVER be a touring machine but the fact these people put their time and love into it, making sure people can at least experience the OG marble machine song is so f-ing awesome. Take a bow❤️❤️❤️ /Hannes
@@Trainerds Hannes, you looked so proud carrying in the 2nd flywheel!
100%
@@Trainerds That we got the opportunity to get the MMX to this point - and to see the people meeting the MMX in this "compromise state" and being happy - was and is an absolutely incredible journey. I still expect to suddenly wake up and realise that it all was just a dream. - Margareth
Seeing the marble machine x play brought a tear to my eye, I understand why you left it, but it was so good to hear it play the original song
This!!
Brought considerably more than 1 tear to *my* eye! If I was there in person I'd probably have been overcome with emotion! Amazing how invested I got to a project that I've only witnessed in CZcams videos!!
Currently tearing up :)
The pedal is visibly flexing under the foot.
It might be too thin and might require different metal profile instead of local reinforcements.
EDIT: Martin recognized the issue in the day 6 video, but it might still take few design iterations to nail down.
Or just extend those wooden fences along the whole length
He just needs to add another bar on the bottom so it forms a triangle (or mote like a pyramid), from the bottom of the wood pedal to the pivot. This way it can remain lightweight while minimizing flex.
@@JohnR31415 Extending the wood might make it too heavy.
he already acknowledged that in an earlier video. it's only for the prototype and the real thing will be more robust
Agreed. If you listen closely, it is not just visibly flexing, it’s audibly flexing. It’s almost squeaking. As others have said, Martin has noticed this. It will be interesting to see how the design evolves to address this issue. Cheers.
Better plan for the brake: attach a motorcycle disk brake to the flywheel shaft. It's designed to safely slow down a rapidly spinning thing with a lot of rotational inertia... almost like it's a brake or something.
Feel like a motorcycle brake is a little too "off the shelf" for the marble machine
The MMX is not a failure. Much like the prototype you are building now, it gave you key observations, insights, and data to support the next iteration and approach on the core concept. Having said that, this new team deserves huge credit and our gratitude for achieving this very satisfying milestone of having the MMX play the official Marble Machine song. I really wanted to go to this meetup but was unable to break away from my other commitments in the USA. Thank you for documenting this meetup so well. For us in the Wintergatan community, you have given us a continued connection to Martin’s dream as it manifests. Much love to all who have helped that to happen.
She summed it up really well. He kept moving the goal post and that's why he couldn't get it just right. He needed to set a single goal for an insanely complicated machine and make it do that one thing really well instead of trying to many things perfectly when his skill set wasn't up to that task.
Margaret delivering the hard-hitting truth to Martin about the MMX, and not pulling any punches. Full cred to her.
The brake on the new machine needs to --not be made of balsa-- but I still believe the 'accelerator' needs to be powered by hand but maintained by foot.
It was great to hear. But it wasn’t hard truth for Martin, but for some of this community it definitely was. It only more justifies his decision to let the MMX go, since it could never perform the way he needs it to.
The last four minutes of this video could be its own main video! That was such a great interaction, explanation, demo, and chance to "let go" of the MMX all in one segment. So glad you included that!! ♥
Those words about MMX were such a consolation! It wasn’t a failure - the thing just wasn’t able to perform tasks it wasn’t designed to do in the first place!
MMX truly deserves to be finished, functional and on display. Also, it's so refreshing to see you enjoy the project instead of forcing yourself into deadlines etc. 👍👍👍❤️👍👍👍
Margret and Ellie discuss the restoration of the MMX in more detail on Musikkabinett's channel in the "Live from Wintergatan Community Meetup 2023 - Day 2" video at 6:21:10. They also perform a short demo of the Marble Machine song and while it is incredible to see the machine finally working, it is easy to understand why the MMX was abandoned. Incredible work to all those involved and thank you for completing the MMX journey!
If you want to increase the moment of inertia of a flywheel, it's not simply enough to increase its mass. Yes this will work, but you'll end up with an incredibly heavy and unwieldy flywheel , and you'll also have to factor that weight into the rest of the design of the drivetrain.
For more inertia you need to concentrate the mass of the flywheel to the outer most area of the flywheel, so you need to make the spokes smaller and far less bulky, and move that mass to the outer edges. That'll give you more rotational inertia for the same mass
Precisely
110% correct!
In other words: That flywheel needs more and larger holes while getting more plates.
The braking system seems very sketchy, especially if you also want to increase the mass. Just pushing on one side of the flywheel is not that great. Have you considered adding a bicycle disc brake system?
aye, true. ideally it would press from both sides so the flywheel isnt pushed out of alignment (which also causes the brakes to be less effective). The bolt/ pivot point holding those brakes would also be better if it were much closer to the flywheel, the way it currently is is creating a lot of leverage that can bend the metal beam (or the contact point at least) out of shape
After all the trashtalk the MMX was exposed to, it was so great to see and hear again. Beautiful people, amazing video.
1:40 classic mistake, you typed “break” into your CAD instead of “brake”
I may not understand how CAD works.
Peanut butter jelly that I was too slow on the draw for this joke 😂
nice one! Soon as I clicked on the time stamp I got it.
props to Margret for accurately and honestly describing the design issues with the MMX. Far more value in her words than whatever motivational book of Elon Musk he has been reading
exactly!
That's the difference between a *real* engineer and conman Musk. Its really nice to see Martin working with a team of engineers, machinists, and other people with the in depth knowledge about these kind of projects that is needed for Martin's dream. Things are finally, _finally_ beginning to look possible now.
Congrats on her actually voicing it. A lot of people would give hollow platitudes rather than state (in a polite way) what the fundamental issue was
@@giantpunda2911 she really manage to put it into word elegantly how moving the goal post kept martin from completing the machine.
arsh but great criticism.
@@daometh Don't really understand how the goal posts moved - for as long as I've been watching Martin's plan was always to be able to take the thing on tour. Was there ever a point at which his stated goal was have it play intermittently at a museum?
Really happy that there are lifes still breathed into MMX. Discovered this channel through the bewitching marble machine video, then found out there's a new machine to be made, the journey that hooked me into this channel since the start of the first sketch, the first CNC machined part working in a tiny container, then come Wilson, moving out to a new workshop and eventually coming to a beautiful place in France, seemingly never ending iterations of parts, hitting a local maxima then bringing out the angle grinder with aim for the global maxima of a machine we call Marble Machine X. Those are moments that I always waited every weeks on Wednesday, Monday, or whenever a youtube notification comes in. Thanks for those awesome moments :)
What a journey it's been!!
To make it truly safe, you should apply a step wheel that would allow the pedal to skip torque on enough pressure directed upwards. The current design would still allow things to get crushed under the pedal or if they got something caught on the pedal arm.
why not an hinge like last design ? 🤔
@@anferrrHe didn’t like the flopping of it when there was no foot on top.
@@DominusFeles RIght, forgot about that! thank you :)
@@DominusFeles A spring can prevent that. It only has to exert a small force to prevent the pedal from losing connection at this low speeds.
He just has to make sure that the spring is long enough to allow for travel without getting too tight.
I would just use steel wire link, the weight of the pedal is far enough to keep it down.
In my eyes, the MMX was never a failure! First of all, it is absolutely stunning!!!!!! - but most of all it taught you so many valuable lessons that will all contribute to the next marble machine. It has also created a community and a whole lot of inspiration to so many people!
Martin, notice how you are preferring to stand with your back to the flywheel when pushing the pedal. This is indeed probably more ergonomic, so you should maybe take this into account for the final design :)
The MMX is a fantastic machine for a museum setting or CZcams video, where you can control all the environmental variables, and it doesn't have to deal with constant teardown, setup, and recalibration. It was never going to be world tour ready, but here it is living its best life.
I hope it's obvious that we'd all love to see at least a short video of the MMX playing the song start to finish - not just the tiny clip we got there!
I only saw today that you posted these 5 episodes, what a wonderful binge this was.
It looks like this was a big and busy 5 days. Hope everyone isn't too exhausted.
Love your work
When the world tour will happen I 100% will try to be there! I love your project, I love the Marble Machines and I love the community that you have gathere around you!
Seeing the mmx in one of these videos is like driving past my old highschool, idk gives me that same feeling of good memories but it's so much better now
A more simple solution to the peddle guillotine is to replace the linkage between the peddle and the drive wheel with rope or a cable. Then if something gets under the peddle only the weight of the peddle will effect that item. Sure you lose the easy adjustability of your linkage but safety is a high priority.
Great idea. A hinge on could also work
How would you be able to solve for the peddle flapping up and kind of jumping at higher speeds? I remember that being an issue on previous similar peddles
@@BraydenTownsif you stand on it, it can't jump.
Also it is relatively heavy so you would need quite a vit of speed to get it jumping
If you use a chain you could stick the bolt on the pedal through one of the links and still retain adjustability.
You can already see that the pedal is extending BELOW the platform--thus continued risk of injury on the up-stroke. Not to mention what would happen if the lever were to somehow fail (which it's already bending madly)--it could very easily fail enough to allow a foot to slip through completely, and yet the mechanism still be slicing away...
8:27 the payoff WE have all been waiting for MMX actually finished and playing music.
Showing that the MMX was NOT a failure has made me feel a lot more comfortable to watch you and support you again. Thank you Martin
I don't know how unstoppable i'd be if i had even a speck of Martin's resilience. Bravo.
I know why the MMX was cancelled, but I still think it is a masterpiece
Wow! Awesome, the lovely marble monsters together in a wonderful setup, surrounded by amazing MMX fans. 🤩
I’m just planning a trip to the museum! 🚗💨💨
From now, the marble machine belongs to the world‘s heritage! Well done folks! You‘re awesome! 🤗
I don't know about the flywheel yet, but i know the release of this video had perfect timing!
Martin, you have been doing great work. I love watching the evolution of this. Keep it up, you're doing great!
Finally the marble machine x plays the marble machine song. This has always been a dream❤. It looks just fantastic with all the parts on
Always lovely to watch your videos, Martin! Thanks for making them!
A magnet brake would be nice - just like on a lot of cardio equipment.
Like on a roller coaster. Kinda the theme of the MM builds.
My only concern would be how such a powerful magnet might influence other metal components
@@StuffandThings_ You don't need strong magnets. You also can buy such breaks from stock in an enclosed capsule to put on an axle.
An Eddy current brake will eliminate dust from brake pads and disc. A mechanical brake might be needed also to get to a final stop.
The MMX is quite literally the embodiment of "Life about the journey, not the destination". It may not have went on a world tour, but the amount of experience and knowledge we all got from it is pretty worth it; using all that, Martin can make his future projects better.
Each of the marble machines are a work of art.❤
I wish he did another song on the MMX as a closure. the song on the first marble machine was a banger
They reprogrammed it to play the original marble machine theme later in the day today. Maybe that will be shown tomorrow or on another channel.
I'm so happy to see you putting so much more of your efforts online. I admit I need to finish all of these new videos, but I am glad they are there
Love the new format. A bit like older school youtube, which makes it very easy going and engaging, while being informative and direct.
well, these are done in a time-crunch... every day one video... there is not days of editing for it... just a few hours at best
I cannot tell you how much I was 9:18 grinning hearing the MMX working and playing that song
Even if the MMX is not world tour worthy, I'm glad it's up and running. I think it would be great for music video one offs etc. as it's a great looking machine.
Seeing MMX again (and working) brought a tear to my eye. Please give those wonderful veterans a hug for me, they have more than enough reason for being a bit PTSDed.
Seeing the wonderful Art Deco (maybe) curves makes me want to exhort you Martin, that in your new found level of pragmatism, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes of course the design must follow "Form Follows Function", but once you have your Function, there is usually a bit of latitude for artistry in the Form. I have faith in you (and your team).
So nice to see that we are back to the workshop videos that got many subscribers hooked.
Agree with others suggestion to use a motorcycle disc brake. Will stop the maching quickly no matter how big the flywheel is.
Super cool to see the MMX running.
I'm impressed you were humble enough to let others finish the MMX to some degree of function. It should get a song and another video!
The MMX looks amazing with all the marble gates!!
I alreeady was sad not to be able to be at the event.... Now knowing that MMX finally played the song made me cry ...
Not of sadness, but for the lessons learned and the -believing- KNOWING that we will see us at the world tour!
Keep going on and stay to your values and goals!
No matter how what happens with the marble machine hands down Martin you win at the internet and you win at life. love all of this!!
I’m really enjoying this building series, thank you
Is it okay to slow down the flywheel by applying force from the side? Will that cause any long-term problems?
Thank you guys for making the MMX work! Months ago i went to Rüdesheim with my son and they showed us the MM and the MMX and both were in a sad condition. But i saw how much enthusiasm was in the team and they spoke about getting MMX to work somehow. And displaying both machines for the visitors of the Musikkabinett. I am in awe hearing the marble machine song played. And thanks Martin for showing us this exciting moment. I am currently playing with two marbles (from the batch Martin washed😱) that we were allowed to take with us... i have polished off the rust and oiled them a little bit.
I've had a poster of the MMX blueprints in my room for a few years now, and whilst I fully understand Martin's decision to abandon the MMX, it is wonderful to see it completed, and I do hope we get to see it in its own video. I believe!
Last Friday I finally saw the machine in person (and played it!!) and it was very clear this machine was not going on world tour. The volunteers (and community members) were running around chasing marbles and fixing the machine the whole day. So now I believe and I understand.
Hello Martin, Milo here, love to watch the progress of this machine!⚙️👊👊👊
I can feel you! Thanks for sharing and best wishes for you and your belovings
You maybe should consider adding a differential to the output to maintain constant speed and be able to keep tight timing no matter the input force or the rotation speed of the flywheel it work for cars or watches it should be plenty precise for music
Agreed! There are so many robust, existing, standard solutions for what Martin is trying to do with the flywheel. A differential would avoid having to finesse the speed of the flywheel, disc brakes should be used to slow down the flywheel (instead of that unbalanced and messy magnet solution), and there should be a clutch or something to disconnect the pedal from the flywheel in an emergency.
can you put a link to such a differential so that I can see how it works?
At that point why not have an electric motor?
It is still a musical instrument
@@ninovulkan9815 After some thought the differential is not the appropriate answer the input variation would still affect the output speed but a continuously variable transmission taking the desired output rotation as target could give good result not sure if the currently available solution are precise enough though
@@Ammoniummetavanadate You summed up the problem exactly. Martin is so obsessed with reliability and timing that the new Marble Machine has lost all of the charm that the earlier, more organic machines had. Sure, the Marble Machine X may not have been able to go on a world tour, but it was full of creative, clever solutions. This new machine feels like a reinvention of the wheel.
für die Bremse könntet ihr auch einfach eine Diskbrake vom Fahrrad am Flywheel benutzen ... mit Bowdenzug und Handbremse wie am Fahrrad...
I love how understated yet clearly proud everyone working on this is. I love engineers ❤️
MMX working makes some happy tears
Awesome!!! :D so happy to the MMX in action, I hope we get a full video of it working :)
I have a suggestion, I feel this might be beneficial.
Have you considered using hydraulic disc brakes on the shaft?
Not necessarily the bycicle ones, but they are also used on motorcycles and cars. you should easily be able to actuate them using a lever attached to a hydraulic piston.
Yeah car brakes would be perfect and replaceable and he could find a used unit in a junk yard.
I was thinking the same thing, you saved me the trouble of figuring out how to put it into words 😁😂
Air brakes from a truck would be even better, you can make an emergency button to release vacuum and the whole machine will stop direct.
why not ones for regular bikes? that would also work... they have fat tire bikes that use wider braking systems.
@@jbkibs might work, but since there is a lot of momentum in that flywheel, i chose to suggest the safer option.
Its nice to see u working in a shop again!
In terms of safety, the pedal should be attached to the drive shaft with a tension-only part. Like adding a joint to the drive wheel connection so that it can yield under compression. It would make the machine less likely to explode if something gets in the way, and would make the upper working surface of the pedal significantly safer and far less capable of tearing off toes or fingers in a pinch.
8:35 it made me so happy to hear and see that cuz it always seemed unfortunate that you never played the original song before retiring the Marble Machine X.
Thank you❤
Please Martin, i wanna hear MMX again. Hearing it playing after awhile made so emotional all the nostalgia floods back all those memories seeing ya vids playing while testing 😭
I can’t believe how much the buried the biggest marble machine news at the end of a random build video! I demand some videos of marble machine x completion team.
So nice to see the understanding of why it isn’t world tour worthy, but like, it’s 100 percent museum trip worth!
There are videos on the @Musikkabinett youtube channel about the process
amazing having a student reflect and contribute on a system that wants to show its shine
bro, that team that took over the marble machine X is so cool and i love their emotion and passion for the machine. there is so much love. and it is a GORGEOUS MACHINE! it does looks as beautiful as it sounds... truly a music box of the heavens.
So awesome to see the beginnings of the new machine come together and by the looks of it a fledgling team of apprentices!
Wow! It's so exciting to see Martin building with a live audience!! While I have to admit to some envy that I'm not there, I'm also very happy for all of you who are! Congratulations!
As far as the MMX is concerned, I cried when I heard it play! Bravo! What a nice reward after all these years of following Martin's progress!
In reading other's comments, it's nice to know others were equally moved!!
You should name this beast “Tapered Bearing Music Machine”
This is truly a great journey seeing this come together day by day
So great! 💛
Impressive to have a video like this done so quickly, was just watching the live-stream.
Omg it makes me SO happy to see the MMX working. I love that machine, flawed as it is. Thanks to all the team ❤
When I heard MMX playing the MM tune, I just instinctively grinned like a Cheshire Cat. Beautiful.
Awesome that other people considered important finishing the MMX and did it. Congratulations!
MMX has a Cameo! Tear in my eye, so happy to see all the love for the dream
what a beautiful video 🥰💖
"It can't solve an issue that it wasn't designed to do" That is pure wisdom right there.
It's not the fly wheel that's powering the machine, it's your enthusiasm. Your enthusiasm is boundless.
Id love to see a breakdown of all the changes and fixes they had to do to make the MMX (unreliably) functional.
On the live video of musikkabinet channel there is a talk by those two that they go over many things they did.
From this same day
MMX is a machine to create songs on and play them through. Like a studio machine and it is indeed a beautiful machine through and through. It would be nice to have it do YT videos playing the songs before going on the world tour with the other machine. I know it would be able to do that and give each song its own charm which I think is the best part about the MMX.
The MMX is a beautiful piece of work
8:59 Martin looks like a dad, looking at his kid doing a presentation, cleaning him, checking all over for something to fix
GOT SERIOUS GOOSEBUMPS HEARING THE MMX PLAY!!!!
Thanks!
Finally, justice for the MMX! And it playing the original marble machine song is just perfect.
I'm almost getting emotional hearing the MMX play the Marble Machine song!
Bravo to the team! Très bien fait!
The MMX is still gorgeous can't wait to hear it sing.
thinking to myself "what kinda wood is that handle made out of? looks soft"
turns out, I was right just this once. Haha
Love the new design philosophies you've been employing Martin, good luck to you!
Underbart att se MMX igen! Det var fantastiskt att se dig bygga den och ännu bättre att nån tar hand om den och ger den den kärlek den förtjänar!!!
You are all amazing! ❤
You sir ... Are like a machine ... nice content...
MMX looks amazing!
I feel like adding some metal to the pedal arm, like a truss structure on a railroad bridge, would help the rigidity a lot.
deep respect to you!🦌💌❤️🔧