Love the work you’ve done, can really see just how easy it is to make an inefficient design reasonably efficient and make downforce. My car has similar issues (aerodynamic properties of a brick and front end lift at high speed) it’s good to see what potential solutions are
I wonder if you could achieve a similar thing by turning that bonnet relief into a vent. Have it pickup behind the grille in the same way and vent through the bonnet. That way it would still resemble the same car / front grille.
I'm also shocked he didn't do this. Most racing cars do it, with a radiator in that area too. Since the 60's til today even, lots of downforce is made there.
Super cool. So the kamei grill spoiler probably does help some. Room is the issue in the Mk1 engine bay. I’m cutting out my core support to drop the radiator lower. Maybe I need to make a S-Duct with the upper grill and hood. 😊
yeah that add-on might. I tried something smaller a while ago I cannot remember the results so it probably wasn't spectacular. These solutions where designed to completely remove the problem. With the space this solution was 250mm long, forgot to add that dimension, but you could get away with half that I think.
Great vid, Nelson! One comment: 6:27 "Front to rear split has "finally" reached 50:50" I wouldn't dare race that car though hah! The moment the driver goes on the brakes with the car pitching forward, this would very likely move in favour of the front and creating quite a bit more of a front-bias, causing oversteer and potentially losing the rear, or, even worse, have the front stall and then losing all the front-end for a moment, resulting in a big chunk of front grip loss, only to regain it once the splitter comes out of stall. Let's assume stalling does not occur - the other problem may still render the car undrivable, or at least, make the driver lose a lot of confidence at medium and higher speeds. I would chase a balance of ~45-47% front downforce balance at a flat-rake simulation.
While what you are saying would be true in certain situations, I think you are confusing what dictates what the "correct" or "optimal" center of pressure position is. What matters isn't the center of pressure position relative the the car's axles, as your comment seemingly assumes, but the relative position between the center of pressure and center of mass of the car. Given this is a front wheel drive, front-engined car, which tend to have center of mass further forward, and the fact the car is assumed to be gutted, which will move center of mass further forward still, an aero balance of 50% front might actually be quite far backwards, and result in an understeery car. If we assume a weight distribution of 60% to the front, a more reasonable estimate in my opinion, an aero balance of around 55% front, while still somewhat understeery, should feel stable and make the car very easy to drive.
I hate both solutions, is the same problem an Argentinian category called TC has, you start to distort the shape of the original body so much in the end the car is not recognizable as a golf anymore.. there should be another way like evacuating all the air via the bonnet or similar
The basics is your usual undergraduate uni course work. This channel originated as a learning process after finishing, started off with old f1 car and discovered their secrets. This a hobby that pays in coffee
I'm amazed on how wrong is the Golf mk2 body as starting point... Lean forwards radiator to make proper channeled hood vent... And use a Skoda Fabia Combi mk1 6Y with oem rs/gt/gt line front bumper, orm under bumper/body mini spoiler and winter front grill cover... You'll get sCx on the 0.50s. play with the wrc hatchback rear spoiler and you'll get whatever sCz you need... Gw of around 1100kg and you can fit easily 1.8T or 2.0 engines like the ones in polos or ibizas gti/cupra...
*I tell all my car CZcams creator friends about you.* Have any ever found you? And I don't know Rob Dahm personally, but you should definitely hook up with his team.
The f1 content drew a bit of attention, its hard to do that content regularly. I have picked up work from this stuff every now and again. There is a large number of ex f1 people floating around doing this type of work. Paying for this type of work is also expensive.
A boxy ef9 civic is a good model similar to the golf only better but the Eg6 civic is probably more slippery and allows for a bigger wing because of the down slope at the rear of the roof on an eg civic . The rules in Irish rallying say the Spoiler can't be visible,e from the front of the vehicle
thats a common rule across many categories. It definitely helps having a tapered roof line. The choice is between a wing and a spoiler. Recent wrc2 cars, before the latest ones, were running wings like spoiler because there is no way air would stay attached
Great video, i'd like to see what aero effect has making a duct that sits over the hood and takes air from the front grill and lets it out at the middle of the hood . This would be much easier to do than the first option imo, dk if it will be better than the second one. Pd: dk much about aerodynamics, just remember seeing that in this video ( czcams.com/video/EJkidQV7a-E/video.html )
did i understand it correctly (and im realy not sure), that you find out, that a round/smoothed out front is more fuel efficient and more aerodynamic, than this 40 year old chunky car? wow. thats not impressive. i would love to see how you try to improve a model of the hyundai ioniq 6. or at least learn from the already done innovations and add them to your model and see what is changing.
I'm amazed on how wrong is the Golf mk2 body as starting point... Lean forwards radiator to make proper channeled hood vent... And use a Skoda Fabia Combi mk1 6Y with oem rs/gt/gt line front bumper, orm under bumper/body mini spoiler and winter front grill cover... You'll get sCx on the 0.50s. play with the wrc hatchback rear spoiler and you'll get whatever sCz you need... Gw of around 1100kg and you can fit easily 1.8T or 2.0 engines like the ones in polos or ibizas gti/cupra...
seeing you show how much small details influence aerodynamics makes me admire Formula 1 cars even more
The more optimized this model becomes, the more I want to build a body kit
I'm addicted to aerodynamic improvements.
Love the work you’ve done, can really see just how easy it is to make an inefficient design reasonably efficient and make downforce. My car has similar issues (aerodynamic properties of a brick and front end lift at high speed) it’s good to see what potential solutions are
I wonder if you could achieve a similar thing by turning that bonnet relief into a vent. Have it pickup behind the grille in the same way and vent through the bonnet. That way it would still resemble the same car / front grille.
I'm also shocked he didn't do this.
Most racing cars do it, with a radiator in that area too. Since the 60's til today even, lots of downforce is made there.
I heard from one of noriyara video this mod was used in 70s and 80s cars in japan and i remember the name of it was front jacket or headlight jacket
bro left us on a cliffhanger
Very interesting, well explained. Also always great when an S4 comes up on screen
Super cool. So the kamei grill spoiler probably does help some.
Room is the issue in the Mk1 engine bay. I’m cutting out my core support to drop the radiator lower. Maybe I need to make a S-Duct with the upper grill and hood. 😊
yeah that add-on might. I tried something smaller a while ago I cannot remember the results so it probably wasn't spectacular. These solutions where designed to completely remove the problem.
With the space this solution was 250mm long, forgot to add that dimension, but you could get away with half that I think.
Bro casually posting free aero advice on YT 😂
Youre genuinely hilarious, im surprised no one mentions your dry humour in the comments
Great vid, Nelson!
One comment:
6:27 "Front to rear split has "finally" reached 50:50"
I wouldn't dare race that car though hah! The moment the driver goes on the brakes with the car pitching forward, this would very likely move in favour of the front and creating quite a bit more of a front-bias, causing oversteer and potentially losing the rear, or, even worse, have the front stall and then losing all the front-end for a moment, resulting in a big chunk of front grip loss, only to regain it once the splitter comes out of stall. Let's assume stalling does not occur - the other problem may still render the car undrivable, or at least, make the driver lose a lot of confidence at medium and higher speeds. I would chase a balance of ~45-47% front downforce balance at a flat-rake simulation.
While what you are saying would be true in certain situations, I think you are confusing what dictates what the "correct" or "optimal" center of pressure position is. What matters isn't the center of pressure position relative the the car's axles, as your comment seemingly assumes, but the relative position between the center of pressure and center of mass of the car. Given this is a front wheel drive, front-engined car, which tend to have center of mass further forward, and the fact the car is assumed to be gutted, which will move center of mass further forward still, an aero balance of 50% front might actually be quite far backwards, and result in an understeery car. If we assume a weight distribution of 60% to the front, a more reasonable estimate in my opinion, an aero balance of around 55% front, while still somewhat understeery, should feel stable and make the car very easy to drive.
I hate both solutions, is the same problem an Argentinian category called TC has, you start to distort the shape of the original body so much in the end the car is not recognizable as a golf anymore.. there should be another way like evacuating all the air via the bonnet or similar
Accept the fate of "good looking old cars" or shape it right lol. Not much can be done through the grill or bonnet
Great video thanks for comparison! btw Helmut Maier made this changes back in the 90s. Great driver he is still competeing, however he is over 80!
What softwares were used for CFD? and what software was used to generate the model on the lazy susan? Nice video!!
Mate, I wish you had a BMW E82 1M to use for all your work :D
lol this is all very heady for me, did you get formal education in this? man I'd love to learn it
The basics is your usual undergraduate uni course work. This channel originated as a learning process after finishing, started off with old f1 car and discovered their secrets. This a hobby that pays in coffee
Is the next step to do a splitter/undertray designed for making downforce? It looks quite crude as it is now :)
I use openFOAM and am curious where u get your models from Self drawn?
I'm amazed on how wrong is the Golf mk2 body as starting point... Lean forwards radiator to make proper channeled hood vent... And use a Skoda Fabia Combi mk1 6Y with oem rs/gt/gt line front bumper, orm under bumper/body mini spoiler and winter front grill cover... You'll get sCx on the 0.50s. play with the wrc hatchback rear spoiler and you'll get whatever sCz you need... Gw of around 1100kg and you can fit easily 1.8T or 2.0 engines like the ones in polos or ibizas gti/cupra...
*I tell all my car CZcams creator friends about you.*
Have any ever found you?
And I don't know Rob Dahm personally, but you should definitely hook up with his team.
The f1 content drew a bit of attention, its hard to do that content regularly.
I have picked up work from this stuff every now and again. There is a large number of ex f1 people floating around doing this type of work. Paying for this type of work is also expensive.
A boxy ef9 civic is a good model similar to the golf only better but the Eg6 civic is probably more slippery and allows for a bigger wing because of the down slope at the rear of the roof on an eg civic . The rules in Irish rallying say the Spoiler can't be visible,e from the front of the vehicle
thats a common rule across many categories. It definitely helps having a tapered roof line. The choice is between a wing and a spoiler. Recent wrc2 cars, before the latest ones, were running wings like spoiler because there is no way air would stay attached
"do you even lift"
anyone know what software he is using?
Why dont you extend the front body work extentions all the way down to join to the bumper rather than the free floating design you have now?
Im guessing radiator intake
maybe to preserve the appearance of the car
modeling circumstance. Modelled the inner part then added the lights, things just lined up. The inner part is to preserve the grill openning
whats the programm ??
Great video, i'd like to see what aero effect has making a duct that sits over the hood and takes air from the front grill and lets it out at the middle of the hood . This would be much easier to do than the first option imo, dk if it will be better than the second one. Pd: dk much about aerodynamics, just remember seeing that in this video ( czcams.com/video/EJkidQV7a-E/video.html )
BASED
did i understand it correctly (and im realy not sure), that you find out, that a round/smoothed out front is more fuel efficient and more aerodynamic, than this 40 year old chunky car? wow. thats not impressive.
i would love to see how you try to improve a model of the hyundai ioniq 6. or at least learn from the already done innovations and add them to your model and see what is changing.
you seem lost
@@nelsonphillips so I do miss understand you? Ok. I will delete it then.
I'm amazed on how wrong is the Golf mk2 body as starting point... Lean forwards radiator to make proper channeled hood vent... And use a Skoda Fabia Combi mk1 6Y with oem rs/gt/gt line front bumper, orm under bumper/body mini spoiler and winter front grill cover... You'll get sCx on the 0.50s. play with the wrc hatchback rear spoiler and you'll get whatever sCz you need... Gw of around 1100kg and you can fit easily 1.8T or 2.0 engines like the ones in polos or ibizas gti/cupra...
And you get 15 years of VW CFD R+D for free plus a car designed by one of the better car designers in the VAG world of all times...