Game Theory: Why You Can't Save Aerith With a Phoenix Down! (Final Fantasy 7)
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One of the most memorable, and heartbreaking, moments of the original Final Fantasy 7 game was the death of Aerith. No matter what you do, how many saves you load, there is no way to save her. Not even the Phoenix Down works! It's always bugged me that this resource made to save people from death, couldn't save this beloved character. Why IS that? Today, it's time to pluck some feathers and see if we can find an answer to this fowl question!
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#FinalFantasyVII #PhoenixDown #Aerith #FinalFantasy #FinalFantasy7 #FF7 #FFVII #Cloud #Sephiroth #Theory #GameTheory
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick and Alan Baker
Editors: Dan "Cybert" Seibert, Forrest Lee, and Koen Verhagen
Assistant Editor: AlyssaBeCrazy
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman
Sources:
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finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/...
wiki2.org/en/Phoenix_(mythology)
www.nintendo.co.jp/clv/manual...
archive.org/details/FinalFant...
www.slideshare.net/segertar/f...
finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/...)
finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/...)
finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/...)
finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/... - Hry
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As we say in borderlands, "Death isn't permanent unless its in a cutscene."
Still better than FFXIV where somebody killed in a cutscene can be dead or just missing for half the game and show up again. Also deaths outside of cutscenes are possible
MATPAT NEEDS TO DO A WITCHER 3 THEORY
CATCH A RIDE
Or minecraft hardcore
Fire Emblem has entered the chat.
The most dangerous thing to a video game character is not magic, enemies, or low health.
*It's a cutscene*
Bootyjuice Jenkins or cannon...😭
Yeap, in gameplay you can take multiple shotgun shells before dying, in a cutscenes you die to a single rifle bullet, absolutely ridiculous
Especially XC2 characters.
unless you're in a Devil May Cry game, or a game made by Platinum Games, in which case a cutscene means you're nigh unstoppable
Hyperion: We can always bring you back, unless you died in a cutscene.
I've always thought of them as being able to bring people back from the BRINK of death not death itself, so it always made sense to me.
They are explained in every situation as reviving someone from unconsciousness not death. Because when you die your life force returns to the stream as mako energy Wich can’t be restored
Well then they should rename them, because phoenixes come back from ashes, so they revive
that's exactly my thought
"Fell Unconscious" solves the problem. Phoenix down isn't for death revivals.
Too bad that is a retcon.
@@elliotburing87 not really, it's been a thing since FF4 (much before than FF7)
downy fresh smelling salts
@@MalekitGJ Or even FF5 when somebody important bites the dust.
@@cmelton6796 You know, RPGs are indpired by true tabletop rpg's and the phoenix down is very similar to saving rolls, for when characters fall unconscious, and of course potential other factord that could save a character.
I never thought of that till now lol
FFVII Fans: Cool theory
People who are playing this game for the first time: WAIT WHAT
EXACTLY
I have no idea what this game is about but I know it's a rpg
I haven't played a single game lol, im so confused
like wtf is this dog
Yeah, I felt like this was in bad sprit l, even kinda mean. If someone managed to go all these years without being spoiled and bought the new game wanting to experience the FF7 story for themselves it sucks they get a major story like this from a random CZcams video. (Especially because there is already a Game Theory episode on Aerith's death)
I've never played it
RIP the 5 people that are playing through the game for the first time and had this show up in their recommended.
rip me i guess
Yup
Me
Stefan M. That was me I’m very sad now
The drawbacks of CZcams sometimes....
I always thought that a character doesn’t “die” when they run out of HP. Instead they “fall unconscious ” and are unable to fight. That’s why a Phoenix down revived them. But in this case Aeris is actually dead so a Phoenix down won’t work
it's no different to Pokemon's Revive
Hey, MatPat, the original FF7 stated that when you used Summon Materia, you were summoning them from another dimension, so wouldn't it be better to say that the Phoenix doesn't have enough strength to properly revive them after teleporting to their dimension then teleporting back to its own?
"This 23 year old debate"
*shows the roman numeral for 22*
Thought the same thing. Explain yourself Matty!
stay in school not.. be youtuber...
Maybe you should stay in school...
@@campkira lol It would have been the editor.
Wow, smart, i am not aware of roman numerals and their meaning.
Who needs a "Phoenix Down" when you can cast "Raise"
Why cast "Arise" when you can cast "Rise from your grave!!!"
Be prepared and cast Reraise.
@@VJK102 Why cast "Rise from your grave!!!" when you can cast "You're finally awake"
The magic spell formally known as "Life"
@@yocats9974 why cast You’re finally awake when u can cast resurrection
The real mystery is why no one used Soft on Seto, even though it cures stone.
Eh, there are literally multiple spears sticking out of his stone body... Cure the stone and he would have a few moments of pure agony before true death took him. =/
@@StarNinja77 just get Nanaki or any of Cloud's gang to use Cure3 then
Err...the spear are still inside, and pretty deep.
‘Curing’ that would cause the spears to dig in deeper and cause even more pain
@@StarNinja77 I mean I personally would prefer death to being turned to stone and being unable to move for all eternity.
It's most likely that he died in the moments before his body turned completely into stone. Using Soft on him in that state would just cause the corpse to collapse into a heap. In a sense leaving him stoned like that turns his own body into a memorial to his bravery to protect his kin and homeland.
3:50
"23 year old debate"
Shows the Roman numerals for 22
Final Fantasy fan here.
@@Vriel659 I am not a fan of final fantasy, I just know my Roman numerals
@@Vriel659 we got a dum dum here
I'm more concerned about how Cloud carried her corpse to the middle of the lake with nothing to stand on
Underwater materia. Or maybe a jesus materia?
WITH THE POWER OF HOLY!!!
Shallow Lake and dumped her near the cut off
In the event of a water burial, Cloud's forearms can be used as a flotation device.
With the magic called float.
MatPat: "Was that all there was?"
Everyone: "That's all there was."
Anthem: "I was there, too."
Everyone: "That's all there was."
FF7 theory: How the heck does Barrets gun arm work? And would it even be functional/practical/harmful in the real world?
that's not it. here's the real problem: how Cait Sith work??? he's a stuffed animal (ultimania) and his big moogle is a robot, sooooooo... how? can Reeve create a new mind for non-living things (like full them with live I dunno) and controlling them when he wants to??? or he can control non-living things (but then he should do that like ALL the time and also have Bipolar disorder 'cause they seem so SO different with Cait)??? magic, you say? but if he owns some materia for that kind of things, TURKs would have taken it away long ago, because it is very useful, so I doubt it, wich leads us to a very strange result: Reeve can do magic without materia. like Cetra. 'cause you know only Cetra can cast magic without materia. lmao
real mystery
@@user-qf6li2wv4i I'm pretty sure Cait Sith is just a remote controlled plush toy cat and moggle. Both the cat and moggle are toys that Reeve's can control with a stupendous range.
@@ski4567 yeah, plush toy and not a robot! how???
@@user-qf6li2wv4i If you ever had a old toy robot when you were a young child that had a controller, same process. Cait Sith has a receiver inside with some kind of wiring and robotic insides covered in plush and fluff, this making him a toy/robot. Its not that wild thinking about it.
@@ski4567 yeah it's probably this guide with 'staffed cat' thing that make me think of some strange theories...
My jr high gf literally dumped me back in 97 because I was sad about aeris death.
F
F
MEGA
@@vchrono9839 KAKYOIN
How does it Feels Like Reliving it Again only in HD Cutscene?
@C R I was guessing it's also because he was probably into Mariah Carey but your guess was as good as mine.
Matpat: Says Omnislash about hitting the like button
KH:CoM Cloud: "I'm about to ruin this mans career" does Cross Slash instead
I misread that as Omnissiah. I have been reading too many Warhammer books lately apparently.
@@dylanconfer1116 I feel it brother, i know the feel
@Fire Mast3r Padawan 2 GACHA HINJAKU HINJAKU!
*freezes foe's legs*
@@mikailnascimento2823 Headbutt that subscribe button with your awakened god-plate to commune with its machine-spirit. Can you guess what book I'm reading?
There was an exploit we did as kids that kept Aerith alive after she “died.” I remember her just not talking, but still sticking along for the fight. Good times.
Nice
Who needs Phoenix Downs when you can just break the game?
Wait, really? As a kid, I heard a rumor that putting BackStreet Boys Millenium CD,
Instead of Disc 3, would revive her after a dancing mini game...
Wasn't there a strange part in the game where she actually did have a single line she spoke to the party if you did that? I think it was up on the mountain with all the horrible snowstorm weather... But its been a long time so I could be remembering wrong.
Cult Boy And I also heard that you could unlock Luigi in Super Mario 64 by somehow sliding an entire plate of pasta into the cartridge slot.
Im "down" for some FF8 theories. Can't wait to see em!
Can we skip eight and go straight to FF9? There was some seriously weird shiz up in that nest.
FF8 Is my Favorite Game of All time, And It is Older than I am, I would LOVE to see some FF8 Theories.
Oh nooooo 😂
Me too
@@mysteryshadow5m439 Gamer Respect
Imagine if you actually used the feather to scratch their nose so they sneeze, waking up.
Palpatine replying to MatPat for FF8 theory: "Do it!"
DEW IT!
ironic.
And now I realized I just quoted him.
DII IT NOW!!
I am the 66th thumb up
STEW IT!
Final Fantsy 5 had a scene with a character death; one of the deceased's loved ones used curative magic, life magic, _and_ revive items to no effect. Aerith's death was two games late to the evidence that phoenix downs are more of a knock-out recovery item than a death recovery item.
Still I hope they expand this scene with similar scenario, so people wouldn't be confused why they did nothing. I also suspect that if Sephiroth infected her with Jenova, it could cause serious shock to Cetra. We do know that both don't mix too well (eghm... Cloud).
As someone mentioned on a similar comment: FF5 actually came out AFTER FF7 outside Japan. Even then, the series was pretty niche until 7 came out, bringing it to the mainstream.
@@TheKrossRoads FFIV and FFVI were relatively well known. At least until you consider SNES as obscure in general.
Although in XII there is a status effect called Doom but you could use a Phoenix Down to revive them
@@Dat_DekuBoi It is in majority of the games.
Considering FF7 Remake's plot and reveals at the end, this video becomes sorta ironic.
Expecting a theory on that one in a few months there Matt
How does the ending make it ironic?
@@venerealmelon SPOILERS FOR REMAKE
Pretty much it's seems like Sephiroth wants Aerith to survive to prevent her from helping Holy from the Lifestream. He is goading Cloud to try to save her with the "Seven Seconds" comment
I remember playing FF9 when I was 12. Grinded to level 99 and easily dispatched all the enemies with Zidane, but at a certain part of the game, he kept walking like he was worn out. That's when the game basically said that only through the power of friendship and teamwork can you succeed. It was at that moment where I started to slowly hate certain jrpg formulas.
Fair. Feel that. Total immersion breaker there.
3:50
Matpat:"I'm going to put an end t this 23 year old debate."
Also Matpat: XXII which is 22 in roman numerals.
To*
Yeah I noticed that too.
Random fact: There are times when Pluto is closer to the Sun than Neptune - one of these timelines was from 1979 to 1999.
SciFactsYT I didnt ask but thanks for the KNOWLEDGE
SciFactsYT .. huh I didn’t know that, how long does it stay close to the sun?
SciFactsYT other random fact russia is bigger than pluto in land mass
Ok
And that's why Pluto is a dwarf planet.
In FFV when one of the characters died, the party around them tried to use Life 3, Phoenix Down, and Raise spells. That leads credence to your theory of needing something more powerful to actually bring back the dead.
In final fantasy six one character brought a rare Phoenix something item to Rachel that revived her back from the dead but only for a short time before passing on again.
FF7 Remake: the character just fell unconscious when there HP reaches 0
All this even though everyone knows that deaths outside of battles are permanent. Rule of gaming.
Get crushed to death by Emerald Weapon? Toss them a Down and they're fine.
Leave your village and come back to everyone dead? Not working.
what is considered a battle? technically its as if sephiroth did a surprise battle called: back attack, but her hp was not high enough to survive a single hit. she was the sole party member so its game over for her. oh god...that's why she died. i hate that i figured this out.
A battle is that thing where the screen changes and you get the attack menus. She was in a cutscene, which is a horrible place for a character to be if they don't want to die or be gravely injured.
Heck, she could have been wounded on the map - even run through - and still had a 50/50 chance, considering Cloud was skewered in his flashbacks.
Had she gotten a game over, she could have reloaded her save and caught up with everyone.
Final Fantasy 4 disagrees
Been too long since I played FFIV. Refresh my memory.
@@MrSkysenGames most of the cast of ff4 "dies" out of battle, but is found to have survived later.
A notable exception is Tellah, who dies... After overexerting in battle reducing his own HP to 0. They even attempt life spells and phoenix downs on him.
“Us gamers are lucky”
Matpat
-April 11 2020
my sweet 16 :)
Its has been a good year for gamers
Matpat PLEASE do a theory on the FF7 remake now that it’s out, there’s so much theorizing material in it and I want to hear your thoughts on the game please make it
Right!
I'm down for some FF8 theories. Kinda want to see your take on the FF7 Remake, too.
I want to see him discuss the theory how Squall might be dead due to Ultimecia's demise, and how she might be Squall's girlfriend.
3:52 “put an end to this 23 year old debate”
...
Only has 22 in Roman numerals 😅
Thought I was the only one hahahaa
I saw it too xD
r/facepalm
You should do a theory on a game called “don’t starve together”. It’s a great game and the lore is very confusing.
Captain Armageddon I’m sure he has or at least mentioned it briefly.
Up
TRGA randomic ?
Yeees that would be awesome
U say up for up the comentary is good when u dont have a good think to talk and u want to that comentary go up
When Aerith died, a part of my soul died as well....
24 years ago and still painful as hell.
Cloud accidentally drowns her. She was still possibly still alive before if paralysed but alive.
Me about to about to play ff7 remake: *scrolling through CZcams*
Game theory: Aerith dies
Me:
dude its a really old game and its VERY popular
@@vergil_6707 Exactly, its so old there's a new generation of people who haven't played the original. People who know nothing about the game and want to come in blind. Whether or not Aerith truely dies doesn't matter because they'll think she will and try not to get attached to her.
same happened here :'c
@@Withered741 ^
Aglae Juarez same
Simple answer: Phoenix down wakes someone who is unconscious, not a resurrection
That's the official answer as well
This man just solved all our problems
This is the worst truth i have ever seen
Still confused, apparently getting stabbed just means your unconscious ... huh
@@InGreatPainIAm no, what they mean is getting stabbed IS WORSE than being unconscious and thus a phoenix down isn't enough to save her
Yup, HP0 doesn't equal death and don't think it's a kind of "family-friendly" feature (just look at the quite mature themes FF games are known for...).
Actually this comes from tabletop RPGs. You know, actual paper character sheets, dice rolls, and more of an adventure than just door-monster-loot where you actually have to think of the consequences of your choices and where death is PERMANENT?
Anyway, in Dungeons & Dragons, HP0 didn't mean death. It meant the character was unconscious and in a critical state: they would gradually lose HP overtime if not stabilized by a fellow character with first-aid knowledge under the condition of a success roll.
Ennemy could also still attack a character with HP0.
You guessed it: your HP could go into negative.
Death occured when a character had negative max HP.
Let's say you have 16HP. You fall down to 0 -> unconsciousness and critical state, you can't do or say anything and you can't heal yourself.
If not stabilized you would lose 1HP each turn. And also take full damage if attacked.
Fall down to -16HP means you're dead.
And back then, only if you had a very high level priest or paladin in your team could you have a chance of revival.
When you die in D&D, you tear your character sheet apart, there's no coming back after a night at the local INN.
although now days in D&D you dont have to drop to -max HP to die just fail 3 death saves
BUT if a creature can deal enough damage to you to ether -max hp or twice that you die INSTANTLY
No they changed now if your stable you have to make a con saving throw if it’s above ten you save if not you don’t if you make it three times your stable and nothing happens if you fail three times you die you Also still die if negative damage goes over your health
yeh i was gonna say it but you did it better its DnD rules
@@asrieldreemurr1988 Death saves aren't con saves, they're just a straight d20.
0Hp does really mean that you are just knocked out. Except when you’re the persona 3, 4, or 5 protagonist. In those three games, if your hp reaches 0 you do die.
Random fact: Cloud killed Aerith, not Sephiroth. She was still alive after being stabbed as his sword missed any vital organ. But it did clip her spine, making her paralyzed. Meaning she couldn’t move. So when cloud set her in the water, she was still alive, until she sank and drowned. Cloud killed Aerith
🤭
Wasn’t that a different game theory episode?
@@shadowstriker6506 maybe? I remember it from years ago, so it’s possible
*look nervously at 9 year old FFVII video*
I guess if a Phoenix down just wakes you up it’ll be hard to actually *GET* up if your paralyzed...
“Good time to be a gamer”
Gamers who still get schoolwork anyway:NOOOO
Everyone:Doom eternal animal, crossing final,fantasy remake this year is AWWSOOMMEEEE
Me:POOOSSSTTAAAAALLLL 4
Gamers who lost their jobs due to pandemic: :')
magnificentadao
Sameee
Still doesn't explain why we cant use a Soft to revive Red's father. Poor guy...
Lynnara Rosewater THIS. Haunts me still.
Nah, we need a supersoft
Because he was in stone for too long and using Soft on him would just make a statue into a rotten corpse. It is actualy explained rather clearly in the game itself, as Seto wasn't just petrified, he was also poisoned, and if you happen to get petri and poison in any regular fight, you'd know that petrification doesn't stop poison from chunking out you HP.
@@catnat6571 No. We needed... A Square Soft.
Because the plot says it can’t. It’s like in the Mass Effect games where your shield doesn’t work in the cutscenes.
The thing that had me thinking there was a way to bring her back was the fact that you could buy her advanced weapons as the game advanced.
I mean when has that happened before?
If you check the developer reports on the game's development, there's a part that describes that Aerith was actually never supposed to die, it was late in development when they decided that Aerith was going to die. Meaning, they had items planned for her that went ultimately unused, but there probably was no time to elimate all evidence, again, showing that they changed plans way too late in development. Dataminers also uncovered lines of dialogue that would have been used, of her reacting to things after her passing.
Tifa was added late in development, though. She was only added after Aerith's death was decided.
When I first played this game as a kid, I thought the real reason Cloud did not use a Phoenix Down on Aerith was because it had something to do with her stopping Sephiroth from using Meteor. I never followed the "KO" analogy, because that seemed more of a gameplay thing than the story. In the story, a person becomes more powerful when their energy fuses with the planet, because they know more of the truth. This is why Sephiroth summoned Meteor in the first place, because the amount of damage caused would make him a god.
Phoenix down: [revives one party member]
Aerith: *"that's where you're wrong kiddo"*
K
I’d say because when you “die” in a FF battle, it’s a knockout, not actual death. Edit: Think of phoenix down as a magical substitute for being treated in an emergency room. If you can’t be saved by conventional medicine because your injuries are too critical, phoenix down won’t work either.
Thats what I've always thought
That is generally what KO stands for, yeah.
Azhrei Vep No, really? 🙄
Think of it as like in tabletop games, when your HP hits zero, but you're not treated as "dead" yet, though in that case, its coz of death saving rolls. You're not dead, but you're in mortal danger. FF Tactics addresses that better, frankly, but it's waived in others games for convenience's sake.
And really, Final Fantasy V already addressed that, so people arguing for her revival with a Phoenix Down or Life spell don't know what they're talking about, when those failed to work on a character that actually dies.
Yes thank you people need to realize that in rpg like ff or Pokémon they faint or knocked unconscious
Hey MatPat, I know you just covered FF7 again and you want to do 8, but heres one that would work as a two party for both Game and Film Theory.
The three whispers(Rubrum, Croceo and Viridi) summoned at the end are Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo.
I'll let you do your own research on that because I find it to be an intriguing theory and dont want to put thoughts in your head about how that works out.
In final fantasy 6, Locke seek and found the Phoenix magicite to revive his dead girlfriend but still failed. Phoenix down is only effective for a fainted character, its like ammonia you can buy in generic pharmacy. 🤣
The irony here is that, MattPat thought more about Aerith's death than Nomura did. XD
Except that in FF5 they already established that Phoenix Downs can't revive a person if they're fatally wounded (a party member dies and the rest tries everything to save him: Curaga, Life spell, Phoenix Down, and Elixir to no effect). Only reason there's even a debacle on the matter is because the West didn't receive FF5 until after FF7 and even then the ways to play it through official channels are very limited.
@@tyronetiggums6441 Still I hope that they clarify that in the remake. Simplest solution would be that Sephiroth infected her, making her revive impossible.
To be fair, Materia literally is crystallized energy made from the souls of the dead, aka the Lifestream.
It contains the memories and experiences of the dead, in fact--which is how it imparts its powers to the wearer.
@@GoldieTamamo I was pointing out the process in how it's created, not what defines the magic contained within them.
It's explained in one of the cutscenes, I forgot which ones.
Mako is made from condensing the Lifestream into a liquid state, Materia is formed when condensed further into a solid.
I'm pretty sure it was Sephiroth that said this.
@ValorJ Omega I want to say it was in Crisis Core that you get a cut scene showing a naturally formed materia.. Theres a tree near a mako stream that forms one ever X years and you got "lucky" enough to be there during its completion..
@@mrj5256 I'm going to say it was Sephiroth describing how the condensers at the Nibelheim reactor are supposed to work before looking into one of them and finding Hojo's experiment.
There is the naturally-formed materia in Crisis Core, but I don't remember there being an explanation there.
The naturally-occurring mako fountain and materia exist in both the orignal game and crisis core, as does the explanation.
Fun Fact: Did you know that Tifa was created to die? In the original script, the creators wanted someone close to Cloud and the group to die to give them all personal motivation to go after Sephiroth. Initially that was going to be Tifa. However, it was later decided that Aerith should be the one because as the last ancient and the most innocent of the group, the creators thought her death would have the bigger impact. So in the final draft Tifa and Aerith's roles were swapped and Aerith is the one who got the axe. ( Or sword.)
Another angle to take this is the fact that the cinematic portion of the game is canon in terms of the story, whereas gameplay is not. So when a character dies in battle, it didn't really happen from a story perspective. It also explains why you never see anyone use phoenix downs in cut scenes.
Game: exists
Matt Patt: *WAIT THATS ILLEGAL*
*matpat
No one:
Aerith: Oh look at that, I’ve been impaled.
And Aerith dying was bad. But Super Smash Bros Genocide gave me PTSD.
You forgot the Olaf laugh hahaha
Well luckily Sephiroth came in and prevented that from happening...so he can impale more people.
Adding to the proof is Galuf's death in FF5 (the best game). He keeps on fighting Exdeath while at 0 hp so the rest of the party has a chance to escape, and very definitely dies afterward.
I actually never liked Aerith (or as fans of the original FF7 US RELEASE will remember, Aeris) because she interferes with the love story between Cloud and Tifa. I even named her “An Idiot.” I joked when she was killed. I don’t think I cared all that much about her. Plus, the game Asa whole was a lot more of an adventure than it was an intimate telling of the characters who happened to inhabit a world-in the same way FF8 was. Which is why I will always go with FF8 and I hope they consider making a remake of FF8.
FF fans: mourns and questions Aerith's death for years.
Galuf: *Am I a joke to you?!*
Man poor Galuf. Even the characters tried to revive him
@@elguno6398 This is one of the reasons why I find Galuf's death so emotional compared to Aerith. They didn't even bother trying to revive her whereas all of the main characters and HIS OWN GRANDDAUGHTER in V did everything they could to try to save him yet even stuff like Phoenix Downs wouldn't work.
Rest in peace Galuf
@@DeskoDev HIS LITTLE GIRL USING MULTIPLE HEALING MAGIC TO HEAL HIM WAS SO HEARTBREAKING!!! 😭😭😭😭 I actually cried my eyes out when he died against Exdeath. I legit had to stop playing for a day or 2. Or 3... or a week...
V was my first ff game and i still get sad about his death RIP
Another Proof that 0 HP doesn't mean dead is the fact that in a lot of installments the the character will stand up with 1 HP once the battle is over. - it´s the same in the new VII REMAKE,
Oh AND YES PLEASE SOME FF VIII Theories!!
In Final Fantasy, characters are not really "killed" during combat, they are just knocked out, "unable to fight" or "disabled". Some games even clearly state that Phoenix Down is used to "revive" UNCONSCIOUS characters. If all characters are unable to fight, then your party is "wiped out" (dead) because everyone is unconscious and unable to stop the enemies from actually killing them.
D. Nightone True, when Aireth reaches 0 hp in the remake, sometimes she said “ I'm gonna rest for a while” and as for Cloud “I can't move” soo that doesn't mean they are really dead, just unconscious.
Wandering Ghost when someone is downed in the remake, it says “(name) is unconcious”
In final fantasy 6, if someone goes to 0 hp the just get “wounded
all the ffs are on different worlds in the same universe so maybe on the ff7 world pheonix downs are manufactured differently than in the ff3 world
I love this. I wrote a whole blog post about Rinoa being Ultimecia, so I'll be looking for FFVIII theories!
I love the fact that this game came out exactly a year before i was born and I was so interested in this game (not just on that fact alone, the story is great the characters all were relatable and understandable and it deserved its rightful remastered just like FFX)
I still remember Matt's theory of cloud killing aeirth's by accidentally drowning her
yes...accidentally
lol
Same
I was thinking about that theory when the episode first started. XD
cockatielsrule1300 right same funny thing is his theory now would debunk his old theory
FF8 Theory: Could you fire your dog at your enemies like an exploding crossbow bolt
@Liam Walker Rinoa from FF8 has an ability called Angelo Cannon, where she fires her dog Angelo at enemies.
The interesting thing about the Aerith not being dead theory is that we actually see Cloud survive a similar Sephiroth sword incident.
Final Fantasy VIII is my favorite, I'd love to see some theories on that one!
Matpat: Why did Aerith have to die?
Yuffie warp glitch: She didn't
Everyone: What
Yuffie warp glitch: What
Ouch, a whole new generation of kids got spoiled with a title.
It's common knowledge for anyone who's played the original
@@psychticambitin7987 *NEW generation is the key word there.
Do you honestly think the new generation is playing other games besides fortnite/minecraft?
ikr wtf. right as a new version of the game comes out that many people want to play, let's just make sure to ruin it for anyone new. now from game theorists: spoilers sent straight to your inbox!
@@chronofantasy1987 yes? Seriously thinking they dont is very boomer of you.
She didn't died, she finished casting holy before Sepharoth stabbed. The real question is : what is exactly holy material do? I think it make the user "be one with the force/force ghost". In this case, one with the planet/lifestream. She gave up her physical body to be one with the planet. So technically her spirit still alive?
FF8 theory: how do you get one of those hot dogs at Balamb Garden before they sell out?!
You gotta save the world, that's the only way.
THESE ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERS
Supporting KO vs Death: Final Fantasy V, the group tried to use the Phoenix Down to revive Galuf only to fail.
this is also true!
Boom
Well that would have made the theory 30 seconds long haha... And not a theory
I do hope he covers what's up with the Final Fantasy 7 remake. Especially how Aerith even came back or seemed to know what was happening in this timeline..
You can just use Yuffie warping to bring Aerith back. In the PC version, if you get a game over during the Jenova fight after Aerith dies, if you go to your last save with Aerith in the party and try to get Yuffie in the forests, it will warp you to the spot you got your last game over; in this case, the Jenova fight after Aerith dies. However this time you would still have Aerith in your party and could use her for the rest of the game. None of the dialogue or anything else changes, so the others still act like she's dead.
Aerith's death didn't get me nearly as badly as Red Xiii finding out his father did not abandon the village. We couldn't use soft on him either!
Thats because soft has to be administered ASAP to prevent any permanent damage, Sato sadly was a statue for far too long.
i mean… why would you think soft would work on someone who's been turned to stone YEARS ago?
obviously he would be dead by the time redXIII even gets there. due to malnutrition and thirst. whats inside that layer of magic stone is a dead rotten corpse. ofcourse soft doesn't work then anymore.
@@cherrydragon3120 Sato's statue cried though.
If you're willing to accept evidence from outside FF7, in FF9 the character Blank is petrified early on in the game. To cure him, a special "Super Soft" has to be obtained much, much later in the plot. This suggests that either the ordinary Soft only works on the *_recently_* petrified or that petrification exists in multiple degrees and that Softs only cure the lower tiers of the ailment. As far as we know, "Super Soft" doesn't exist in FF7's world.
@@ArcaneEther That and also the fact that Seto /Willingly/ wanted to stay petrified to become a "living" monument to protect his family's home from whatever force was going to destroy it. so while yes even though his body is still petrified, the soul still resides in that rock; unknown to whatever has happened on the planet. But the sheer force of Red-XII's sadness and regret reached the soul of Seto and thus, creating the tear. so even if they could, i dont think Seto would become un-petrified.
"Why wouldn't Phoenix Down work?"
-Recalls old theory, 'She wasn't dead, just paralyzed until Cloud drowned her'
"Unless she wasn't dead, which is an old theory of mine..."
- 'called it'
Dead bodies dont drown... they float....
@@VoidCron ....Initially, bodies will likely sink to the bottom, but as bodies decompose and gasses are released in the body, the corpse will rise back to the surface as a result of buoyancy.
Just a saying bud
@@VoidCron It really isn't.
Heard it somewhere, thanks for the science though. I can definitely use that one of these days. No sarcasm intended
The day after i got the original(my first time playing any ff) you released this video and i was spoiled about Aerith’s fate. I know you had to put it in the title and i also heard from other places as I read more about the game so i’m not really mad. Also glad i didn’t put her in my party.
could u do a theory on the quartermaster from camp camp?? the writers have said that they’re trying to raise as many mysteries abt him as possible, but i believe in u :)
FF6 also confirms this as well "Locke hears a legend of the legendary esper Phoenix said to revive the dead. He wants to use it on Rachel and heads for the Phoenix Cave where the rest of the party locates him and invites him to Kohlingen. Locke uses the esper to revive Rachel who tells him to stop feeling guilty. She dies again, restoring Phoenix to life. Locke, exculpated, joins Celes and the others to fight Kefka."
(Disclaimer: can’t remember where I read this) Most Materia is made when parts of the Life Stream crystallises and forms the orb. That’s why you can just randomly find Materia in the world. It just formed. And as anyone who played the games know the Life Stream is made up of the souls who died. So it would make sense that the summons could have had their Materia form that way.
I started to believe it didn’t actually bring people back from the dead when I played FF15. Because when you use a Phoenix down, it’s the “Dead” characters themselves who roll onto their back or whatever to use the Phoenix Down.
I remember Nomura saying in an Advent Children behind the scenes clip that Materia is made from the memories in the Lifestream. In the Before Crisis mobile game, you supposedly could take pictures with your phone camera and turn it into Materia, so not all Materia is naturally occuring.
You could even look at Final Fantasy 7. When the Pheonix dies later in the game, you see the Baby Pheonix and the Materia come out of it.
You probably read it in game. Hojo describes how materia is formed in the Nibelheim flashbacks in Kalm town, when you come across a natural materia in the Nibel mountains.
Really though, the revive from KO thing seems pretty obvious, at least to me - I didn't even really think about it until I actually saw this question asked like 15-20 years ago, but honestly, Occam's Razor - what's the most likely reason people aren't using Phoenix Downs left, right and centre to revive any person that dies? Because it doesn't revive the dead.
Matpat: TELL ME IF YOU want FF8 THEORIES!!!
Me: Do final fantasy 9
Matpat: I'VE GOT 2 THEORIES ALL READY TO G-
Me: Final. Fantasy. 9.
Final. Fantasy. IX.
A little late to the party but yes, absolutely go forward with Final Fantasy 8 theories! I'd love to see a dive into its lore 😁
*Should we use a Phoenix down?*
Nah I’m sure she’ll be okay
Do a theory about how all the chocobos represent cloud's dead family as he slowly dies in a coma
I say that as a joke, but it's exactly the sort of soul-crushing stuff you manage to prove
Would love any, and all, old school final fantasy theories!!!
I liked this video not because of the explanation, but because of the effort. And I’m told I think about things too deeply. My friend, to you I do not hold a candle, and to you I tip my hat. Game on!
Because if you did revive her the sword would still be stuck in them and they would scream in Pain and die over and over again;)
ey reference to that oney cartoon
Here before its pinned
Couldn't you remove the sword
Your local vault 13 Deathclaw take the mf sword out then revive
Bruh
12:20 FF5 haas the same thing you summon deceased creatures as summons. Two of them actually are confirmed to be dead the hydra and the Phoenix. The hydra appears as a ghost and the Phoenix kills itself for you in a extremely sad cutscene that still gets to me. Funnily enough the Phoenix and the hydra were dragons of the sisters in your party.
Heck yeah more FF theories, please! I never got a chance to play these as a kid, so with the remakes I'm just now getting into them and the lore is just impossibly dense. I'd love any help with unpacking it!
@MatPatGT I am a Podcast editor and was thinking that Game theory videos would make great podcasts, would you ever consider taking the video's audio and uploading them as podcasts? I think a lot of people would enjoy it during these uncertain times, thanks for all that you do!
I would like to hear a theory on why at the end of ff8 they show a frame where Squall's face is a hole!
Ah, the "Squall is dead" theory. Hadn't read about that one in a while. Brings back so many memories.
that was just a prank to scare people. In the real ending, he just stares at the sky then fall after seeing the broken space helmet.
Squall became more "open minded"
I rlly do believe it was squalls death that we were witnessing at the end. Even though the writers said it themselves that it wasnt dead, the theory is so eerily on point it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.
The ending itself was a whoke life flashing before your eyes and it was mostly all cgis from disc 1. At the end of disc 1 when Edea impales squall with a large ice through his heart, you gotta ask yourself why is it you that you wake up in the next disc in a prison w/o any wounds or at least a scar?
@@XxXxXJerseyKidXxXxX
The ice impalement was not in his heart, When I played it. it was on the wrong side. but his HP 0 he was unconscious. I don't think so, he his main character. I don't know any other main characters that dies. Specially when they are the one you play has. The ending doesn't make much sense to me, but I am not that far. So I don't have any idea. But its odd that the other group doesn't jump in to help out the fight.
Id be up for some 8 theories. And there's a 9 theory I've been wondering for years:
With the technology and knowledge level shown in the game, should the people of Gaia in ff9 have been able to deduce that Terra existed? Its always something i thought rather odd that it was there and its effects on the world so visible but no one knew at all about it until Kuja showed up. If the Gaians had been more primitive and medieval I would have understood, but they have advanced steam- and magical tech and a highly educated populace. Would be highly interested in the thoughts of the theorists.
Well they 'knew' Terra existed. Its just that Terra itself is a Moon sized Moon shaped Ship that took up orbit around the planet. No one had the tech to travel space to it in order to investigate, so they just assumed it a second moon. Its the same in Four, the Moon was a large space ship that arrived at the primitive world and just stayed there waiting until Blue Planets' civilization had advanced enough so they could meet.
In 9's case, the purpose is more sinister. The Terrians are hiding there waiting for all the Gaians to die out so they can take over the planet. They don't want to people to know they exist. Their souls are sleeping inside the that moon and the Geonomes exist as soul jar vessels for them to possess when its time to leave.
For the IX theory, ask yourself this. If someone said another planet's spiritual core had essentially taken over the Earth's, and here was some vague evidence of that, would you believe them?
FF9 is a classic steam punk/medieval fantasy... You should think of it as medieval but with steam tech.
Education levels of the average person would not be that incredible.
Also they knew it existed, but if I remember correctly they just thought of it as a moon.
A common theme of Gaia and Terra in games and anime is that they're polar opposite mirror worlds (basically Jin/Yang but in an astrological setting).
The population of both thinking the other is a moon.
You know that scene in crash zoom (tomska other show) with the wizard guy and the other guy
That is kinda like what a phoenix down is like
This is a thorough and well studied explanation video on properties of phoenix down. I didn't know about the Aletap Rumors of FFXII. Though I still think further explanation is needed on KO, unconsciousness and permanent death statuses in relation with some spells recurring in the series. I wish you had also brought them up.
Firstly, why is there a spell called Death in nearly every Final Fantasy game if it only causes KO status? Why name it something it does not cause? You can make it go away with a little phoenix down / phoenix pinion / phoenix summon or raise / arise / life / full-life. I know 0 HP means KO not death, and death spell causes 0 HP, but that doesn't still make sense.
Secondly, Break is another interesting spell. I don't remember if that happens in every game or FF7, but I do remember that happens in some of the games. Characters inflicted by break are petrified and become like stone statues. After being petrified, if they take damage, they can literally shatter into pieces, making them totally unusable until the end of the fight. You can't use phoenix downs or reviving spells for a shattered character. But after the fight, you can find them in the menu with 1 HP. How can anyone come back from literally shattering into little pieces of stone?
Let's just conclude that stories of the games and battle mechanics are totally contradicting each other, and leave it at that.
FF Fan: "Why didn't Cloud use a Phoenix Down to save Aerith?'
Jojo Fan: "Araki Forgot"
FF Fan: "What?"
Jojo Fan: "Sorry, wrong series"
Evere JoJo fans knows this one truth to be real.
@@animefanrk2k
Final Fantasy Fans: "Omg Aerith's death is too depressing, I'll never be able to recover from this."
Jojo Fans: "First time?"
Mat Pat: "If YoU HAvE a SparE LIveR aROunD To AfoRD iT"
Me: 'looks at table'
*knew this would come in handy*
What
*Hol up*
@@baitthewhoosh5739 yeah theres a problem
How didnt the liver rot if you didnt keep it frozen ?
JonTron:
"I have several questions!"
GIVE MY BACK MY LIVER, DUDE!
Wait. You're planning FF8 theories? Dude yes I need that! FF8 is my personal favorite Final Fantasy game I need theories on it now!
I just figure that the better explanation is that it DOES revive the dead or very nearly dead, it just doesn't heal the injuries very well. This works if you assume that every injury in other fights is just less severe than a full spinal impalement, which shouldn't be too much of a stretch. It could revive her but she's still got a massive hole in her chest and her spine has been severed, at the very least, she isn't fighting any more and is probably paralyzed. More likely, she's paralyzed pretty high up and is likely barely, if at all, able to breathe much less speak. Leaving her dead is probably more of a mercy than trying to bring her back.
Gotta be honest matpat, killing Aerith right in front of my eyes again is traumatizing and wish to not relive it again.
Have a feeling that with the better character development, especially with one certain person, in the remake - I'm gonna get scarred again. T_T
Yaaaay more depression
you don't know aerith is around when fight last boss...in remake..
As long as those FF8 theories aren't, "Squall is dead," or, "Rinoa is Ultimecia," I would like FF8 theories.
Rinoa is Ultimecia is a theory?
@@buster1746 it was proven wrong by the developers
@@buster1746 Is been a theory for a long time. The developers can say what they want, but the woman is using Griever as a Guardian Force; which is Squalls Necklace. Why would she do that?
@@buster1746 I would just say that the reason this theory is so defended is because with it, FF8 is a tragedy, without ? It's a mediocre emo drama
@@buster1746 Actually it's explained in the game that whenever a sorceress's powers are activated, Edia, Rinoa, Adel, they are actually possessed by Ultimicia.
I could go for some FF8 theories. I always really enjoyed the game, even if I have to admit the story was more twisted than an M Night Shamalan fever dream.
It's in the lore that Sephiroths sword negates any possible phoenix downs or phoenix summons or resurrection spells.
LISTEN HERE: Go play FFV. They TRIED using a phoenix down, elixirs, EVERYTHING to bring Galuf, a main party member, back. But he couldn't be revived with anything because he pushed him self beyond his limits, and he wasn't simply "Knocked out" anymore. FFV explains this, and I've been telling every FF fan and commenting on every FF phoenix down meme for YEARS. PLAY FFV! FFV's explanation isn't just a theory, it's canonical.
Good video, tho, Matpat ^_^
EDIT: FFVI! How did I forget? Rachel, Locke's girlfriend, was brought back from the dead by the phoenix itself, but only could be sustained for a few minutes, so if the phoenix itself cannot revive someone forever, then how possibly could just the feathers?
MatPat, there's so much more evidence you could have used! I'm an old school FF nerd tho, an exception, not the rule, so it's okay.
In 8 you can get completely disintegrated, and you come back when the fight ends like Doctor Manhattan, sooooooo...
Ditto Tellah in 4
If he said that then he wouldn’t made as much cash because of watch time
Or cloud could've just I dunno.. Used a healing spell or an elixir the instant he caught her.. It's not like aerith got stabbed in the heart or brain.. The sword would've gone through her spinal column, diaphragm, stomach, maybe the small intestine and an artery or two. All of which could be treated with modern science if treated promptly. Much less healing magic or elixirs.. He instead chose to listen to sephy's monologue until aerith bled out lol