Single Tank VS Double Tank - what do you prefer? | VS Monday
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2020
- Welcome to the latest instalment of VS Monday, hosted by GUE Instructor, Dorota Czerny. VS Monday is our show where we put two industry standard pieces of equipment against each other, examine the pros and cons and allow you to make the most informed decision possible on which could best suit your needs as a diver. This week, Dorota is examining Single Tank VS Double Tank set ups. But which do you think you will prefer to dive on?
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VIDEO CREDITS:
On screen: Dorota Czerny
Post Production by Nico Lurot
Music: Awaken Together by Ian41
Photos: Julian Muehlenhaus, Dorota Czerny, Kirill Egorov, Guy Shockey
Video: Olga Martinelli, Blake Wilson, Dimitris Fifis
Crew: Sima Performing Arts
![Back Mount vs Sidemount {[My Biased Opinion]}](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M0OpJSzf948/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video. Very informative and clear information. Hope every diver watch it one day. Good job, GUE.
What do I prefer? Twins. Steel 232s. Unmanifolded, Buddy twinning bands. 7s, 10s or a 7&10 with a trim weight on the 7. Switch block with FFM. 2 hour-long dives in a day on 3 cylinders at 18-25m on nitrox, no-deco. Suits me.... No 'wholly-right' answers in life.
Thank you for the excellent information!
Exactly what I was looking for information wise. Thanks!
Thanks for all the info. There is a lot to think about when making the switch.
great movie, thanks. Fullt agree adding second tank is a slippery slope, soon or later one ends up carrying rebreather
Another awesome video!!! 👏
Would be great comparing twins with sidemount (or single + stage). Thanks!!!
Mhm... Bogdan, Cristian Stefan - how cool it is to have the first names (and how confusing for others :))) ), but... some comparisons for me are not easy to make as I would not dive some of them (like single tank and stage) or sidemount in open water. For sure, we could research and get other people's opinions and compare them to the GUE approach. But this will take a bit more time to arrange :))
I like videos Dorota. Nice job. Thank you. I got 18l T-valve steel which cost me 330 Euro and it weights 20.5 kg "dry". I use it with two regs and I don't have any balance problems ( I'm pretty strong and moderate big). It's more safe set then double ( bi bomboli :)) beacuse it has less failure points and still keep doubles possibilities to manage the set. I got Mares bolt BCD and It cooperates very well. Of course I connect hoses that way that even if one does not work I still got acces to breathing air and bouyancy by the second 1-st stage. I got so much air as double 9-s but still much lighter tank.
Again a nice video! Thanks for it and agreed! Since Dec 2019 i am using a double and i only see benefits on this system. For sure it is heavy to handle, because if i have on all my gear i get my own weight on my back - but it is okey and i am proud to handle it better and better. I love it now! From 2014 until 2019 i am using a single tank and it is compared difficult to stay in stability, also of cause way to few gas.
19:04 come now, our two wing nuts and washer for a back plate system should always be stowed on the bolt during storage and transit. However that being said it's recommended to have redundant set as a save a dive mitigation plan. I keep a second set of wing nuts washers on hand in case my backplate and wing are dissembled in the filed and either a wing nut or washer gets dropped over dry sand or falls in to large rocks, or some how gets out of hand and lost. The amazing thing is that two wing nuts and two washers have a common trait they all have a hole in them. You can easily clip all four piece of hardware to one end of a double ended bolt snap. Clip the empty end of the bolt snap inside your dry suit pocket and stop pointing this minor thing as a disadvantage. Are we to say because regulators have o-rings they are a disadvantage because o-rings fail? No, we carry spare o-rings in our save a dive kits.
Hi Dorota I really find your videos very applicable and important. Thanks a lot for that. Please take in account to your next videos to talk about the various types of weights. Please talk about V and P-weights vs the use of common belts. Please include the way they must be assemble to each kind of diving equipment. Again thanks a lot.
We shall relay the message to Dorota and will consider this for a future episode
oh... I like this idea very much!! Thanks Alexis! I am adding it to my list topics :)
Good info. For me it’s definitely doubles. I loved them ever since I tried them first back in 2018. Another advantage for doubles if that you don’t need to switch tanks every time you’re done with a dive, usually you put on the equipment the first day of your trip and it remains on the tanks until the last day.
hey Ahmad, yes - that is a nice advantage indeed, but on a liveaboard, you would not switch single tanks either... (hrhrhr :P) but.. in fact when you are out on a daily boat one set of doubles may be enough for two dives without the need of swapping tanks.
@@dorotaczerny7496 Hi Doro. You’re right.
You also just gave me an idea for a vs. Monday. Maybe you should do Liveaboard Diving vs. Daily Diving.
Along those lines with the common offering of 2-dive charters, the double setup has more air on the second dive. For the single diver, the air left in the first tank after the first dive stays on the boat.
Thank you so much for a balanced video. How does buy or rent factor into this? I can’t rent a twin set easily whereas most dive centers have singles of varying sizes.
Also you can’t really easily switch, you have to reroute or have a second set of regulators to use.
I love my Double 12 ...I use it for every dive..it doesn’t matter..for 5 or 50 meter dive..its always a good choice 😊
Why is it always a good choice???
You are very good in your explanation wish I lived close to you. Dive Safe 🇺🇲👌🏼
Comparing "Drysuit inflation: Argon bottle or from Backgas" would be a cool idea. What is my concern about it, is that in an event of a backup first stage failure you have to shut down the valve. Then you are losing backup reg + spg + drysuit inflation. A single failure led to the loss of 3 items. In that context would it be better if the drysuit is only inflated from a separate bottle even in recreational(no trimix) dives? Although it adds indeed a little more equipment hassle.
Nice video! I dive D7s for my recreational dives, quite manageable weight and more stability than a single 12 or 15L.
hey there, nice idea, and I am adding it to the list as well. The thing with closing the left post with all the 3 items you mentioned is critical only from one aspect - you can not donate gas anymore and the dive should be terminated (well, it should be regardless of which valve failed, as the team lost capacity either way). Well, you could buddy-breathe the long hose, but.. why keep on diving when such a capacity is lost - this would be just asking for troubles.... The SPG is not necessary as we learn how to evaluate gas consumption within GUE (estimate) based on SCR depth and time (we do have some cool tools for this), and as well we would be on the way out/up and well within the needed gas (MG gas concept). And the drysuit loss in more of an inconvenience - anyway - you would be on the way up (due to the loss of gas donation capacity), so the ascend can be managed "relatively" easily.
Could you do a versus on back mounted doubles and sidemount? Thanks!
Go with a Faber steel 117 or 133 if you need more air. You will not need as much lead. The also do not get noticeably neutral buoyant like aluminum. Once you go big steel you will not go back to aluminum or consider double.
Thank you so much for this content. It is extremely useful. Don't you think that a twin set weight is not really an issue since you carry less lead? How to tackle the pressure debate with twinset which can be inflated at 300 bars? Thks again
Dub 104's all day. I'll get two 80's or 85's for ocean diving eventually.
Hello, which double size do you advise for hypoxic Trimix diving. Double 12 or double 15, some said to go straight to double 18 since they have better trim characteristic because they are longer and not as neck heavy as the 15 and some said that they are too bulky and to stick with double 12. I am upgrading from double aluminium S080 since I am struggling with all the extra weight that I need to carry for diving with my drysuit. I am 185cm tall. I am still confused for what size to go for.
i dlatego mam 2 zestawy super filmik
nice
I prefer doubles I am a big guy and I use air, I got used to the weight I got to haul around. When I get in the water I don’t need any lead
Ivory, yes - that is a much better set for someone of above-average height - I know a few divers that would make a single 12 L tank look as if they carry a drysuit inflation bottle on their backs... Double it is for them not only our of gas consumption perspective.
@@dorotaczerny7496 I appreciate you taking the time for replying to me. I look forward to more videos they are very informative
Hello Dorota, As you point out in a very clear manner, both single tank and twinsets have their uses. So, it is not a matter of either one or the other. Somewhere in this video you also mention the benefit of easily switching between the two setups. Indeed I use either setup as appropriate for my dive plan. I use a single 12 with T-style double valves. Compared to my D12 I initially struggled with my Apex DS4s configuration because the hoses need to be connected in a different way. I resolved this pragmatically by using separate sets of DS4s for my single vs my doubles. In your experience, would this issue of 'not being able to easily switch between a single tank vs a twinset' be specific to the choice of 1st stage regulators. E.g., is it not an issue with, say, Apex DSTs, or Halcyon style 1st stage regulators? And if not, would this be a nice excuse for another 'vs Monday' topic?
Hey there, well - as the regulator set up is configured in a specific way, will always need to re-attach some hoses (so move from two first stages to one). Some of the specifically dedicated regulators for twinsets (Apeks have them indeed, and I think Tecline, too) are not the best as they have the ports only on one side, so indeed not the best for a flexible set that is more universal. Mhm...let me add this to a list and see what we come up with - thanks for the suggestion!
Twins give you redundancy. If you're diving for work in the UK, redundancy is mandated. That's redundancy of buoyancy source as well as redundancy of breathing gas source. Twins are better balanced than a twin and pony.
What about diving independant twins? Even twin a 7 and a 10 - that's what trim weights are for. Use twinning bands with cams to mount them, rather than have them permanently banded together. You're less likely to inadequately tighten the bands than you are to lose a wing nut from a back plate out the scuppers. You can run 2 hour long dives less than 30m each (second dive shallower of course) on 3 tanks. Swap regs to manage the gas in your set. Diving a full face? Gas switch block.
I think that instead of topic single double, you should discuss 'what is your air consumption and what you need' - a person who makes a 40 min drive doesn't need double. The person in 'hot' water. etc. All changes when you go longer and deeper, or colder(UK majority people dive twins)
So how would you phrase that as a VS?
I think it's stretching reality to say the majority of UK divers dive a twin set. I've been a part of 3 UK dive clubs, one had 0 twin set divers, one had 1 twin set diver (well, independent doubles), and one has about 25% on twins. I've been on boats without a single twin set diver a few times. Singles are the majority, although twins are probably more common here than elsewhere in the world.
Michael, thanks for the comment. You are right that the decision to switch to a twinset can be based on gas-needs (mentioned in the video). But doubles are having other benefits - and sure, for some dives, they would feel redundant as they could be done on singles, but it all comes to what you have at hand, what is available, and how much work it is to re-kit and what your experience is. If I am on a liveaboard where half of the dives are tech, half rec range. I would dive doubles even on 10 m dive just out of the simple fact of saving time on re-kitting all. If someone can handle the weight and complexity (in- and out of the water) - I would be good for either choice.
I would go for 8.5 liter double wide concave as for my first twin set. 12 liters steel is heavy when you need to walk .
Just bought a D8,5 and I love it over 2hours diving with it
Like all your videos but the background violin playing music makes me a headache every single time ;)
Good video, thank you. I agree the greater complexity of a twinset increases the probability of a failure, but this is small against the reduced probability of such a failure leading to a critical outcome. So, to pick arbitrary numbers, if there's say a 1% probability of a 1st stage failure on a given dive, the probability of a failure of one of your two 1st stages would indeed double to 2%. But the probability of both failing on the same dive is 0.01 x 0.01 = 0.0001, or 1 in 10,000. And the kit is of course actually much safer than that. I'll accept the extra complexity. Twins are certainly heavy and the best bit of dive kit I bought was a sack truck to move the cylinders around the dive site! I personally do still dive with a single rig, especially on holiday when all other divers will be in singles. There's no point in being able to stay down for a couple of hours if everyone else will be out after 40 minutes.
hey Tim! Yes, you are right - the probability of failures on valves is very small. for me personally the biggest challenge I see with people starting with doubles in confusion on the valve operation (which direction do they close or open), and the failure to reach them and operate with ease. All those are requiring a bit of practice and explanations, but indeed twinset is a very good tool for most sorts of diving.
@@dorotaczerny7496 I do love my twinset but, in dry suit at least, I still find it an effort to reach the valves easily as I have an old shoulder injury. But I'm sure with some extra instruction I will get there, once we are allowed back in the water! As with all new skills I found it helpful to strap the rig on sitting down in the garage and practice valve drills until I didn't get it wrong and the direction of rotation was instinctive. Made things in the water much simpler.
@@timgosling6189 there are quite some factors related to reaching and not-reaching valves. And for sure past shoulder juries do not help 🤗 I am thinking about some series of specific exercises, and tips on such issues that would help divers developed needed flexibility and strength. But let's see what my schedule allows in the next months
@@dorotaczerny7496 that would be very useful; I'll look forward to it. You always put things across so well, and with the reasoning behind them. Great channel!
☺️☺️😁 thank you
I see a twinset as being a big advantage on doing a typical recreational two dive boat charter.
One advantage is safety in the water. Say for instance I have two 80 cu.ft cylinders. If I dove those tanks as single cylinders I would plan the first dive to use 30 cu.ft on the swim out and another 30 cu.ft on the return leaving a 20 cu.ft reserve. Same plan for my second dive. (Assuming no limits due to NDL's). If I use the same tanks configured as a twinset I would use the same plan however this time I would have a reserve of 100 cu.ft on the first dive and 40 cu.ft on the second dive because I would have access to the air in both tanks on both dives.
The second advantage is safety on the boat. With a twinset I can set up my regulators while still at the wharf where the water is calm. If I'm diving two single tanks I will need to switch tanks between dives in potentially rougher seas. This means an increased risk of crunched fingers if things shift unexpectedly while switching tanks or the possibility of o-rings getting knocked out and not noticed.
A benefit of a twinset for dives that can be done on a single is also not having to switch cylinders on the boat between dives... good for those who get seasick!
yeah... that is a benefit indeed. Thanks, George - I was doing it myself for years while in the Red Sea, so... probably so obvious to me that I did not mention it in the video. But a good add-on.
Seasick AND ON THE BOAT..OK
It's not just seasickness that makes that an advantage. Switching tanks in rolling seas can be a challenge. Smashed fingers...lost o-rings...can spoil your day. And whatever air you brought back with you after your first dive you get to take with you on your second dive rather than leaving it back on the boat.
Great job (again), Dorota!
I would love to watch a twinset vs sidemount!!! great video,thanks!
haha... well GUE is not really in for sidemount used in open water. In caves, the use of sidemount is obviously related to restrictions where you do not fit with doubles and you need even less profile to swim through... But who knows, I may need to find someone with actual sidemount experience to talk to it :)
Now i'll use more the double
I’m not a twin-set diver, but if you want to do it… go get trained!
If the twin set is heavier than a single, wouldn't you then need to carry less lead weight and so have the same overall weight?
Those F$@% wingnuts 😆...so true, I've been that guy (New Years Day Dive 2020 🤦♂️) Now that I am a Backplate and Wing Diver I would never go back (single or twinset) GUE 4 Life 🤘🤙
butla argonu do suchara i skrzydlo i twin oraz mokry, single, pony jedziesz zaleznie do planu
Sidemount in my opinion has more advantages than twinset.
Roberto, hah. That could be a loooong discussion especially if you would say sidemount has bigger benefits in ocean technical diving... :))) and we can always conclude that we agree to disagree :)
I would really like to see side mount versus back mount in a versus video Dorata!
And more fun
@@michaellambert2976 haha.... let' see, let's see....
It will be better to ask for the opinion from a former twinset diver but now fully converted to dive only in sidemount tech diver - Steve Martin, himself on this matter. How can one describe their experience of riding a bicycle if he/she doesn’t ride? Do you get what I mean? 😜 Now, please don’t get me wrong, I understand that team standardisation is what GUE rooted their ideology on and there’s nothing wrong about that, that’s their principle. Every style do have their pro & con, it is just a matter which suits you the best. IMHO, new tech diver will find easier to get themselves transitioning from single to twinset, as their are both backmounted, they used to carry 1 tank but now 2. On the other hand with sidemount, however, new tech diver needs to relearn to dive with tanks hauling beside them, there’s a steep learning curve here. The flip side for diving twinset though is that it is not as flexible and versatile than diving in sidemount. I remembered sidemount instructor Steve Martin remarked that diving in twinset is like diving in 2D, but 3D when diving in sidemount. Personally, I prefer to dive in sidemount for both recreational and technical, even in open water, either boat or shore dives, it feels good that I don’t have to carry 2x 12L or Alu 80 behind my back. Having said that, I would also prefer to dive in DIR Twinset with GUE if I’m diving with whole team diving in the same configuration.
Give me two tanks any day. Much safer.
Background music becomes annoying after a point