I try a remote observatory run by Bray Falls
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Join me for a tour and my initial impressions of Starfront Observatories - starfront.space
Thanks to @astrofalls , Josh Kim, and the rest of the Starfront crew for having me down for the tour!
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I love when my favorite astrophotographers work together
"Days since last flat panel accident" - made my day 🙂
I caught that reference but I'm a newbie so I did not understand it. Could you explain what that is in reference to?
@@sstidman a flat panel is a white light that is put in front of your telescope lens to create special calibration frames. In a remote observatory you never use them at night as the panel overlaps the lens a bit and can cause light on other telescopes and ruin their images. It happens from time to time if somebody is not mindful of what he's doing.
@@0815mkl Great explanation....thank you!!
I can’t afford the $200 right now plus the upfront equipment costs but it could be fun to team up with some other astrophotographers and share the imaging time. This would lower the costs even more. That being said, Bray and his team have done a phenomenal job of lowering the barrier to entry. I am very excited for them!
Excellent work Nico, you're making really wonderful videos mate 👍
Thanks Luke!
Starfront has been great so far. The data is so clean especially towards and during new moon. The support is great (had a few unforeseen hiccups with an EAF bracket coming loose and they were able to fix it up), and the price is hard to beat if you can afford it. Hoping to be there for a long time! Their goals are ambitious but would be so worth it, and I would love to see them pull it off.
Thanks for covering this. I'll be traveling there next week to drop off my rig!
thank you, my setup will be at starfront very soon
Wow - this is super cool Nico! I can totally see why it's tempting. I just can't imagine having NO technical issues with the mount and tracking but I love that they set it up for you. Our weather in NH and Vermont is not great so this would for sure provide a LOT of great data. Something to think about - great job on this video - loved it!
I'd love an option like this for us UK folks. I worry I'd have the same issues of not enjoying being more involved. Set up is part of the process and something I thoroughly enjoy, but this option can make it more accessible for the times where I have less energy to set up and take down kit. Thanks for showing us this!
doubt you'd have that in the UK.. I mean.. the weather doesn't allow it, or at least it wouldn't make sense to invest in it when you don't have a significant number of very clear nights. And the light pollution doesn't really help. By the looks of it, Class 3 is the best you can realistically get? but in most cases you will have a massive city towards the south of anywhere you'd shoot.
+ the uk is arguably too far north compared to Texas, considering how many popular targets are better when you're a little further south, while they'd be quite low on the horizon in the UK.
The concurrent imaging with the backyard and remote rig is a bit of mind melt. I was the same waiting for my home rig to slew! 😂😂
Very cool idea. Thanks for sharing.
Nico my wife and I just got back from seven days in Whitefield just off route 115. I had one clear night but made the most of it. We will be retiring up there in two years and we just purchased 25.5 acres in Whitefield off 115. Looking forward to some Bortle three Bortle two skies compared to my bortle 8 down here on Long Island, I have to admit you’ve made this look very enticing.
Such a cool concept. Hopefully they fill up with users and flourish.
Living near Chicago and only having sky open in the direction of Chicago this video has really got me thinking... Thanks for the video 🙂
Remote imaging will definitely change the way you work. I labored for 4 years in a Bortle 8 back yard--and like you, I will continue to do so. But now I have three rigs at Deep Sky West--an FSQ with reducer, a TOA130, and a CDK12. This has more than doubled the number of targets available to me and has changed the way I think long term. I can consider things like large mosaics, or going very deep on a target to pull out unusual things. Unlike you, I don't really enjoy tinkering with gear, but I've never done more tinkering than what I had to do to get three rigs ready to go out into the world on their own. Troubleshooting remotely is sometimes very difficult. Far moreso than doing it at home. But I can't argue with the quality or quantity of the data.
This is pretty awesome!
Fantastic idea. As soon ss im up with a new setup ill definitely consider sending it over to you guys....
A very cool concept. Curious if they stream audio/video from the site that uses can monitor. (I suppose part of your set up could be a video monitor?) That way you could see and hear your equipment. I like the community idea too. I have joined in virtual star parties where participants communicate and share real time images. Very cool. PS. Here in Northern Nevada, we are having great clear skies around this New Moon. I am gathering data and no time for any processing. LOL You are going to find out how astro data overload feels. Clear skies.
They are streaming a live camera in the discord every night it's clear. No audio yet.
Slightly related, I use in my IT life a device brand WattBox, in case you want high voltage control over the internet in case the problem is further upstream and you need a 110-120v power cycle as well.
Just caught the 'man with hammer fixing pier to concrete', might want to edit that out
It's not like there are supposed to be people walking around at night though?
@@nuuwnhuus I was referring to the quality of installation, not suggesting men with hammers walk around at night hitting things
Such a cool concept! Thanks for sharing this, Nico! Wishing you a happy journey with this setup from all the way in Jakarta, Indonesia.
Super idea, can you show us your workflow from beginning to end at some point? Trying to see how it works especially with ASIAIR. Thank you Nico
This would be worth signing up to with a rig share syndicate.
Thats exceptional! Ive seen the Planewave and Takahashi high end stuff in remotes but those guys generally have grants and endowments, (or a Ferrari) this is a neat idea... Id love to watch one of those barns around midnight local time with everything slewing and just imagine what everyone is going for. Great video
I dropped off my rig a week ago and ran into Galaxy Hunters, then to see Nico in the Discord it’s awesome. I will second the fact that it’s like a star party but almost better cause you don’t have the awkward space nerd energy as the conversation starts :)
Hi Dustin couple other question you may be able to help with... Is the mount supplied by them? Do you need an automated flat panel? Thanks
Super cool, Nico! I can't imagine access to 7 clear nights in a row without moving. I wonder how long it will be before you catch the bug to set up Nico3 at a similar spot south of the equator 😁
What a cool idea
How exciting
that's cool as heck
With ligh pollution growing each year, I think remote observatories will only gain popularity in the future. The only thing I would worry about and I'm not talking about just Bray's observatory but in general is if there is some kinds of insurance in place, just in case, for example in case of a tornado.
From their FAQ, insurance is the customer's responsibility. So no, it's not included.
Good job you 2..
Super cool Nico! Watched your video on the instrument build, but forgot the price of all the components…. Curious to see what a year would cost all in.
Nico, thanks for doing this. Really good info and answered so many questions I had apart from what I talked to Bray on. Have a request - if you can do a short video on how your setup is and how you connect to begin observing and ending it-would be also helpful. This is something many know but your experience would also give a great insight.
My concern with making that video is my process is a bit idiosyncratic and probably not the 'right' way to approach remote imaging. Even the way I use Sequence Generator Pro (SGP) is something I've developed that works for me but doesn't really take advantage of all the features (and I still use a very old version of SGP). I will say that Bray suggested using Chrome Remote Desktop for connecting and so far that has been super simple and reliable. All you have to do is set up remote access on the mini PC before you send it: remotedesktop.google.com/access and then go to that same URL in Chrome on your home computer and click on whatever you named your Mini PC and you have full control with very little lag or issues (so far at least). If you have any other questions, feel free to email me: nicocarver at gmail dot com.
@@NebulaPhotos that's fine. if I need, will contact via email. i'll try the google remote desktop-curious how the speedy connection is. But overall, I wasn't picky about what you're using rather how you're doing it. There's no right answer-then again-as you said, you'll like to make another video in 6 months or later. That would also tell us about granular and overall experience too. Thanks again.
Good video Nico! For me right now, it's not worth it but we'll see in a year or 2... I believe this is a good idea for a lot of folks so I believe that they probably won't have any room soon without additional buildings. I can also see where they might have to raise the rent soon, the economy being what it is...
Looks interesting, but my worry is what are they doing to protect the wide-open box full of expensive equipment?
What an interesting idea.. if I was making money selling shots that seems like a fun experiment
Covid injections tailing off? :)
Very cool! Just wondering, if I had an 6200 asi and the subs are quite large how would the bandwidth work? Im just thinking if theres 20-100 people uploading constantly from their ISP it would bottleneck or something ? Might be more a question for the guys at the Observatory...
We have symmetrical fiber internet, so even if we had 100 people with ASI6200mm it wouldn't be a problem!
When you became full time astrophotographer, it was suggested to move to West Texas or NM. You moved to NE, made observatory in Bortle 2; and now …. Paying 200 a month for observation from Texas.
As someone who is retiring to NH in 2 years and coming from Bortle 7/8 skies where I currently am located, the lack of 7 clear nights in a row is not a deterrent. The skies, when clear are something to behold and I am considering the same route Nico is going.
@@bobbymccourt6794 If astrophotography is your main passion, then lack of clear nights could drive you mad. You want 300+ clear nights per year! You want to be in Atacama desert, despite it is sheeit place to live. If you have many other considerations, than it is different story. NE is excellent place to retire.
You just got an AP mount? Sweeeet
I was excited about this... until I figured out that this is just a place for remote work only not a site where I can bring my basic tracker and enjoy the view as I do my photography. I guess I'll still be looking for a place to go. Still, nice review.
Not sure where you live but in my state my local astronomy club has a dark site available for members to do that exact thing. Worth looking into if you haven't already.
@@kcrocks5 Live in MA.... The two local clubs struggle as well with light pollution.
@@hangerbird ahh damn fair that sucks
I've tried Several times to watch this, with is repeatedly pausing (at the exact same spots) until it finally locks up a few minutes in. I also closed my browser and tried again to no avail. All other Utube videos work fine, and I'm a paid Utube member. Good Luck Nico, I tried.
Sorry to hear. Not sure what is going on there.
Waiting for the day we can send our scopes to do remote AP on the moon :) No atmosphere
Astrophotographers are the best people
This is the future, makes so much sense and removes a great deal of clutter.
I know you are using SGP but one thing I like about NINA is being able to have a custom color scheme for each instance. Never used sequence generator to know if that is an option for you. Maybe a good way to keep which system you are controlling straight.
+1 for color schemes. I have a different one depending on which setup I'm using.
Interesting. I'm sure we'll hear all about it on the Patreon chat this weekend, but I have three questions: (1) lag time and reliability of the connection and (2) it's not obvious to me how you would run an ASI Air remotely - saw some scopes with one - it needs to be on the same network as you and (3) do they allow clients to come down for the initial setup - I'm sure they do a great job, but like you and your hands-on interest, I'd prefer to confirm it's set up the way I want even if they do the work.
1) So far so good. At Starfront they have 1gig fiber internet, and I have a wired connection. I connect with Chrome Remote Desktop and it's been as lag-free as at home. 2) I think most doing it now have a second computer or router acting as a VPN so that the ASIAir thinks it's a local device. Starfront describes it in broad strokes on this page: starfront.space/pages/remote-imaging-101 but I'm sure there are people that can help with the details on the Discord. 3) They allow clients to drop off their gear rather than ship it down, but don't normally allow clients to be there for the installation.
H Niko, very nice video. I saw that comming since Bray's old youtube videos haha. Question: What kind of filters did you leave there? Does bortle 1 really need filters? :D
I'm using a mono camera so I have the full set (LRGBSHO), but if you were shooting with a one shot color camera, you could go 'no filter' and have a lifetime of objects to shoot under Bortle 1 skies.
Hey Nico, thanks for reporting on the observatory! I looked into this when it was first announced. Did you get your gear insured?
Why not use large telescopes setup remotely already? I find backyard setup much more enjoyable even though it’s Bortle 8 skies
I would agree Niko living in New England it seems to me the weather has changed to where we seldom get multiple days of clear skies. When I was younger it seemed common place that you would see clear nights with plenty of stars. I fear this is becomming a not so much a trend as a more established long term reality tied to climate change. Your thoughts?
It’s a good question. I think the next few years will be a good test as we are entering La Niña right now. I’m hoping the change may bring us more clear nights.
You would not happen to know a place like this that you could rent time on a scope?
There’s plenty of those around, Roboscopes ( in Europe is one of them )
Hi Nicolas, I have been watching quite a lot of your tutoriam 2:49 s. Great work. I also have been following Bray Fals' project. In Belgium we also have sh...t weather for 9 months now (yess, 9 months). What set-up do you have at Starfront ?
It's an Askar FRA500 and ASI2600MM on an iOptron GEM45 with several accessories.
What a great idea, I am definitely considering this. I am on a fixed income, but I suspect that one could get a few partners and lower the cost significantly.
Hey Nico, how does one take Darks and Flats after an imaging session from a remote observatory?
Darks on cloudy nights with the roof shut(build a dark library for the temps you use). Flats can be done at dawn pointing at the sky. Or anytime the roof isn’t open if you have a flats panel.
Nico, can we assume you confirmed this truly is Bortle 1? I find it awfully hard to believe that region of Texas is that dark! (I do admit, though, I could be wrong!)
Pretty sure it’s not. They don’t post SQM measurements.
Visually yes, following the actual article John Bortle wrote which is available digitally on Sky and Telescope, it seemed to me to be a Bortle 1. I value SQM readings but I’ve never been one who thinks the Bortle Scale can be translated accurately to SQM (the best in terms of accuracy IF done on a very transparent night when the Milky Way is not present) or satellite data (the worst in terms of accuracy). I didn’t bring my SQM meters because I knew with the Milky Way up all night it would be impossible to avoid its glow which can easily change a 21.9 sky to a 21.3 due to the way the SQM lenses are designed.
See my full comment below, but I get why they’re not releasing these yet. It would require a big education campaign for people to understand the nuances in SQM readings from dark sites. If the transparency isn’t perfect, if there is substantial air glow, if the summer Milky Way is up, or a combination of all three the SQM meter will read brighter than the site truly is. It comes down to the wide angle design of the lens in an SQM. I have lots of experience with these meters and own several from different companies and organizations, and didn’t bring any when I visited Starfront as it’s simply the wrong time of year to get an accurate assessment with the meters. That’s something I’ve come to appreciate about the visual system of John Bortle. It can be done on any clear night, and with enough experience it is a good way for a single observer (knowing their eyesight) to evaluate different sites.
This is such a great idea Bray and co are onto a great business plan here. I would totally take this up, but as I am not in the US I assume that’s me out!
There are several there that have shipped scopes from outside the US, give it a look
@@dustinballinger5661 Thanks Dustin I will check it out
Now I need to know the background story about this day since flat panel incident board.
I see you can send smart telescopes too..wonder how that experience is. I know Seestar you cannot remote start it etc...thanks for the clip.
A few comments. It's very useful for the user, when you have a remote telescope, to see the weather conditions, all sky camera, seeing monitor so that one can decide to shoot or not. You didn't mention anything about this. Also having an ipcam showing your telescope (not the whole shed from a large distance is sometimes useful to debug a situation. What about power requirements ? Some people want to use relatively big desktop with GPU boards which consume a lot of power, and transmit also a huge amount of data, too bad you didn't mention anything about this. My experience (as a owner of such a facility) is that a small telescope can require as much maintenance as a big one. So in my case I don't make difference about a 20 inch or a 2 inch, it might require as much of my time to maintain it. I also refuse to take some setups which are either unreliable, or a bitch to collimate. Refractors are nice for that.
Nice setup, but I don't think the area around Brady Texas is Bortle 1. Big Bend is Bortle 1. According to the International Dark Sky Atlas, looks like this area is maybe Bortle 2 or 3. Which is still good.
Bortle is a visual system for assessing sky brightness described in this article: skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-resources/light-pollution-and-astronomy-the-bortle-dark-sky-scale/ Based on being there and talking to Bray about different nights observing things naked eye, I'd say it's fair to call it Bortle 1. Light pollution maps based on satellite data are not accurate enough to capture this. If the observatory were right in Brady, TX it would likely be a bright Bortle 3 or even a 4, but driving 40 minutes away makes a huge difference. I've observed this all over the East Coast.
@@NebulaPhotos There is no Bortle 1 in TX except Big Bend. Bray's description is confusing. Looks like he does not understand TX weather yet. Hill county could be terrible after entering winter until next summer. Jet scream will be around most of TX and seeing during that couple of months will be pretty bad. Additional, late spring and early summer are the storm season. If equipment is expensive, you should get insurance on it. It looks like Bray and his team does not understand or fully know the pattern of TX weather yet. So far summer until fall is the best for Texas astro-folks
Ahh im in the lakes region New Hampshire. Purchased a 6se 1.5 months ago and have been ab le to use it 5 or so times! This humid cloudiness needs to go!
Agreed!
@@NebulaPhotos I've got monday off and tonight seems like it will be a good one!
Our night sky in northern Maine this spring/summer has been bad. Is the sky clear? Moon is out. Is there no Moon? Clouds.
👍👍
How do you remote connect? Does it take a long time to transfer all the files?
I've been using Chrome Remote Desktop and it's been working well. And for file transfer I use Dropbox, and no it doesn't take long at all to transfer the files, it's basically instantaneous. They have fiber internet there with 1gig upload speed.
Slewing the wrong telescope is just a weird flex 😂
Hey Nico, recent sub with your build videos. I actually though this video was going to be about destination astrophotography. Being new, have you done anything on travel astrophotography? Like a AirBnB with telescope access or something similar. Are you aware of anything like this? Would you possibly do a video about it if you haven't already. I just purchased a Dwarf 2 and I'm heading up to Acadia in about a week. Looking forward to using it for the first time up there. Thank you in advance.
It's a good idea. I have some leads on something like that.
I decided instead to buy a home at 8000ft with very low humidity, clear transparent Bortle 1 skies, and a handful of homes within 25 miles. There's a international dark sky preserve that takes up the 20 miles to the north, federal land for miles out back, as well as 20 miles south and west. Sangre de cristo mtns.
I love this for people that don't have access to their own property but I really enjoy physically setting up and manipulating my setup, that's half the fun 🤷♂
How starlink kills astrofoto? . How many pictures are whit trails how % cant use to make photo? Thanks
I've never had an issue with starlink or satellites in general. It comes down to what kind of astrophotography/astronomy you are doing. The type I do where I stack several images together makes it easy to get rid of satellite trails through pixel rejection in the stacking process. It's basically automatic as long as you have something like 'sigma clipping' turned on when you stack.
My girlfriend asked me the other day, after I was ( again! ) complaining about the awful weather here in the UK "Wes, why not sign up for that remote imaging online, that way you can do tons more astrophotography?" to which I replied "Darling, I prefer to drive a real race car on a real race track...racing simulators just don't do it for me!"
And therein lies the problem for me personally! I just cannot get excited about VR astrophotography!
Thanks for the great content as always Nico! Love the channel!
What about security?
They have a gate and staff there 24/7.
Kinda like the idea, as it's still your equipment.. little more hands off though, which is not for everyone.
Not sure it's for me anyway, as I'm not in the US.. Unless they offer options to basically buy equipment in the US, ship to them, and have them basically set it up? - although, not sure how comfortable I'd be to have 5-6 grand worth of stuff shipped out to people I don't know, to a place that I can't go near to....
Can I have a Dobsonian there 😂?
How do you get ethernet in the middle of nowhere?
It was part of what they looked for in a location. Rural fiber internet is a thing - I have it here in NH too.
Use a HEPA filtered shop vac when drilling!
😂😂😂 are you for real
They don’t post seeing data
Are you not afraid that it will be stolen from criminals? All these stuffs together is more than 100K I think
No, I’m not. This is not an unattended observatory. There are people on site at all times.
I likethe idea but I don't think the prices are right. This is of course subjective and will vary from astronomer to astronomer, but $2400 / year is the cost of some small setups or the price of one nice piece of equipment. True that between astronomers we also joke that having a good sky is the last equipment to optimize.. so I perfectly understand why this observatory :)
In terms of price, I would probably change the model a bit, possibly paying more for the setup of the equipment and then have a decreasing price over time. That would make more sense to me than a flat $200.
The second aspect that bothers me a bit more.. is that we are losing the connexion to the sky when imaging remotely. Remember all those long nights outside in the cold ? I am sure you do and as I, you probably love them as much as you hate them. But if you are losing that essential component of astronomy, then how is it different from a service like telescope live ? To do a comparison, it feels like sending servers to a data center vs using the cloud.. except maybe for those who have extremely custom setup that couldn't be reproduced otherwise, but I don't think that's the majority.
In short, I am of course tempted and curious.. but currently too expensive + fear of losing the connexion to the nightsky. Happy if you all prove me wrong however !
Your first question was not answered, "what are the disadvantages of remote imaging?" I'm sure I know the answer but I wanted to see what they think
Yeah, didn't notice until I was editing. I'm not the best interviewer. If I'd noticed, I would have pressed on that. In any case, I hope to address more the disadvantages when I do a 6 month or 1 year review.
I like the idea but wouldn't want my expensive astro gear uncovered in there while they are drilling into concrete for all of those remaining piers. A no go for me, I guess you get what you pay for. Please invest in a HEPA shop vac to keep the concrete dust from getting into the existing astro gear while you drill.
No I would not pay 200/month for that sky. My backyard is bortel 4. With todays filters I am just fine.
no! I would not pay any amount for remote imaging services. That's taking out 80% of the effort from the whole process. I would not be able to call any images from there mine. Think of it this way... go process hubble data. Can you call that "your work"? Clearly not.
Are you against an automated setup in a backyard observatory by this same principle?
@@NebulaPhotos absolutely not. I would draw the line at who owns/puts together the imaging hardware. I admittedly didn't word that right.
I am completely against remote imaging services, for example, an individual/company who owns telescopes/cameras, everything needed and just rents that out.
I'm perfectly ok with personal gear set up in a remote observatory, even if that is not in the backyard, it can be anywhere, as I long as the person owning the gear set it up and put it together.
I do not like remote telescopes to be fair, you miss the whole hobby, watching the stars while you are shooting. And so much more, was it pain or not its part of the hobby, automated is not (especially if you are doing it inside.)
To each their own I suppose, but I agree. If Im doing everything remotely I wouldnt even feel like Im doing the work in the first place. Its like paying hundreds of dollars to have someone fish something for you to cook, sure the end result is the same, and if you're happy you have a fish to cook and thats all you care about, great, but you wouldn't say you caught the fish.
This folks is what capitalism represents.