Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers [EXTENDED EDITION] Part 4 - Group Reaction (4/6)
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- čas přidán 8. 10. 2021
- The Battle of Helmsdeep is film legend at this point! So many movies and series will base their battle scenes on this particular sequence. What an iconic moment in the Lord of the Rings triology and we're excited to show you blind reactions for it! Enjoy the reacts for Lord of the Rings The Two Towers Part 2! Stick around after we watch to listen to our discussion and review.
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I don't think I'm the first to suggest this, but maybe you should watch the animated "The Lord of the Rings" film by Ralph Bakshi to compare.
Rumor has it that it's what inspired Peter Jackson(Director, writer, and producer of these films) into the books.
interim gondor ruler - didnt recognise billy butcher father ?:D
Think I heard that The Two Towers represent the war on 2 fronts in WW1.
For the record, Tolkien was indeed a WW1 veteran, and I can see how that could be read into this story. Regarding the ents and hobbits, there's also a very strong anti-industrialist/environmentalism theme throughout Tolkien's works, considering how he grew up during the era of "laissez-faire" capitalism. That's why the good side of the elves and hobbits are always shown with green countryside and woodlands, while the orcs are always portrayed in destroyed landscapes with blackened environments. Nevertheless, such a fun movie :)
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
- Faramir, who Tolkien associated with the most.
He's such a Chad
Besides Beren.
I want to point out that Saruman criticised Gandalf for smoking pipeweed when they met in Fellowship, but keeps imported barrels of the stuff in his stores.
For smoking TOO MUCH pipeweed, as in he's gone soft since he last met him. That was also a way to nod a the Sharku storyline that was cut from the trilogy.
That decision was made so late in production that during Galadriel's mirror scene, you can make out the special set they had built for the Scouring of the Shire.
I still have the trilogy guide books where they explained how they revamped some of the Shire building to make them look debased, especially the water mill, that ended up with an evil-looking "crow's wing slated roof" to contrast with the soft shapes of its original thatched roof.
@@TheZapan99 Oh dang, that's interesting.
I should really sit down and watch all the documentaries from the Extended Edition sometime - I bet they talk about this in them as well.
It's mentioned he started smoking pipeweed because deep down he envied Gandalf, so he picked up one of his hobbies in secret.
@@sertaki I've honestly watched the extended edition documentaries more times than I've watched the extended edition films. They go into so much detail not only on the production of the show, but the books as well, and a lot of stories from the cast as well.
Saruman also had men working for him and that is why the stores had human type food in them.
I love how the one guy's like "WELL WHY DIDN'T GANDALF JUST SHOW UP EARLIER?" as if Gandalf wasn't hauling ass off screen gathering that army. 5 days is actually impressive.
I know this wasn't his cup of tea, but Pat's totally the kind of half-watching viewer who asks why the Eagles didn't just take Frodo to Mordor anyway.
Just so you guys know, in the books, ELROND, actually had a twin brother, ELROS who chose a mortal life that's why he's so upset about Arwen's choice since he already lost someone the same way. And yeah TOLKIEN was like Hayao MIYAZAKI basically : hated war and industrialisation.
Also, Elros is Aragorn's ancestor, making him kiiiiinda related to Arwen lol
Miyazaki is absolutely anti-war and probably hates war for the destruction it causes, but hated industrialisation? Absolutely no way. Miyazaki loves technology and even the weapons of war at least on just a design level. That's clear from films like Nausica, Porco Rosso and The Wind Rises. His animations go into such loving detail with flying machines and guns and he even drew a comic based on Otto Carius's biography of German tank warfare with very detailed illustrations of tanks. The man clearly likes technology just not the uses of it.
@@7felipe14 Arwen and Aragorn are first cousins sixty-four times removed.
@@barreloffun10 Precisely
@@jonttul when I said hates industrialisation, I meant it as him wanting to protect nature/environnement, use our resources wisely instead of over-producing, like in nausicaa or princess mononoke, but I get your point ^^.
pat: the army that gandolf showed up with WERE the horselords, or rohirrim, of rohan. essentially the entire real fighting force of rohan, which is why they had to be scraping the bottom if the barrel with elderly and children. gandolf was gathering the army that would've been there from the beginning if it hadn't been for wormtongue and saruman exiling them
It was not the entire force, just the part they could get in that time to arrive on that particular morning.
The entire force of Rohan will be much larger, and will take longer to assemble in Dunharrow in the next movie.
@@JanPospisilArt fair, forgot about that (honestly that battle/battles are more of a blur to me than helm's deep) but my point still stands; they didn't have any actual soldiers when the battle began because of the whole exile thing earlier on. even just gathering a portion of them was an immense help, and the advantageous positioning only furthered that lol. honestly, i forgot what pat was originally bitching about, now we're just talking shop
@@QuestionableLifeChoices Not only was part of the fighting force exiled, but also many men lived in scattered villages and hamlets. They would only join up with the army once told to. That's why it would take so long to muster forces.
@@JanPospisilArt Even the fighting force they assemble at Dunharrow isn't comprised of all the riders in Rohan. Théoden mentions himself that the 6000 men they manage to assemble in the three days they're stationed there is a much smaller force than he had hoped for.
@@JanPospisilArt That also isnt the full force I think. Since Theoden says its like half of what he expected or wanted. Imagine the battle in the 3rd movie if they had twice as many horse people!
Interesting part about the Riders of Rohan. For both the 2nd and 3rd movies, the extras are mostly local New Zealander equestrians who rode their own horses in the riding scenes. So as a result, mass majority are woman portraying warrior men on horseback. Viggo Mortensen even comments about those scenes being shot, how there were a lot of bearded women in armor walking around.
Because in movies where there are cavalry scenes or horse riders, they always open the extra positions to riders with their own horses. The owners of their own horses have the strongest bonds with them. It actually makes filming movies a lot easier since many riders have trained with the horses they are seen riding on in certain films. So for LOTR, there was a massive group of female equestrians who literally auditioned and they are in the movie.
Thats really cool
Gimli must've been shocked at the number of Dwarf women riding horses.
Yes but the fact that the extras are mostly women doesn't change the fact that what is in the story of the movie and the books are all men.
@@atreyos9449 so?
Treebread, his personality, slowness, speech was Tolkein honoring his best friend C S Lewis (Chronicles of Narnia). Just like the old professor in the Naria books is Lewis honoring Tolkein.
treeBREAD?
A more direct Tolkien homage Lewis did was professor Ransom in "The Escape from the Silent Planet".
I've always loved their friendship, considering how radically different they were in so many ways.
And both of them were honoring one of their friends (can't remember his name) by having their worlds created through music.
Chronicles of Narnia Lewis, that's a weird ass name lol
Legolas & Gimli shouting their kill counts still makes me chuckle till this day.
They are like Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie.
Best running gag in the series
I believe Entish wasn't only slow, but their names are based on many location names in Welsh. Welsh location names are often not a couple syllables, but an entire story about the history of that location. In the case of Entish, Ent names are essentially their entire life stories. Hence why about halfway through the moot, Treebeard said "We have just finished saying our names."
So it is basically like that Llanfairpwllgwyngll-name-thingy.
I'm surprised I still remember how to write that down lol
I also like to think their speech & manner are akin to trees themselves--sloooow to grow, but very ancient & powerful, if given the chance to keep growing
And considering that, if I am not mistaken, Treebeard is, by technicality, the single oldest living thing in all of Middle Earth? His name is very long indeed.
@@vsGoliath96 It's a toss-up between Tom Bombadil & the Ents
Tolkien also based Treebeard off of CS Lewis so his demeanor and speech would match Lewis! Love the inklings!
Movie watchers: The Ents are an allegory to America.
Tolkien fans: Treebeard is literally C.S. Lewis.
Who tf is saying that the Ents are an allegory to America? They are literally allegory to British countryside being industrialised.
@@daecimvs the normies make that comparison at the end of the video my dude.
@@parapotato Oh right I was reading comments while still watching their reaction
@@daecimvs They’re not an allegory to anything. Tolkien disliked allegory, and in the forward to one of the editions of LotR he said so and explicitly said that LotR is not allegory.
If anything is an "allegory" to America, it's the eagles.
What the Films fell to convey is that in the books Elrond didn’t have a problem with them being together but he did require that Aragorn become king. As for his reaction in the movie my only thoughts were that they were projecting how he may have felt after losing all of his family. He is half elf and half mortal and he had the choice to live as an elf or a mortal life. He chose to love as an immortal but all of his family including a twin brother (which Aragorn is a descendant) all chose a mortal life and they died. He is not speaking out of being hateful he is telling her how he has had to live his life and the pain it cost him. His wife was hurt and had to leave for the West so he is also hopeful that he can finally have what remains of his family together once they all make it to the West. He has suffered loss and he is trying to spare her what he has been through.
In fact, Aragorn must be king of both Gondor in the South and the ancient kingdom of Arnor in the North.
Technically, Elrond isn't half/half, but both of his parents had mixed blood. Eärendil was a half-elf and Elwing had mostly elves in her recent ancestry.
I know it’s an old thread but isn’t this an old elvish “tradition” to give unaccomplishable quests to those who pretended to marry their daughters, especially if the pretenders were of human kin? I mean, Beren was sent to bring to Luthien’s father a f*cking silmaril!
King Theoden...the man stuck between bravery, pride, honour but also regret, stubbornness and betrayal from the past...He is an amazing character who even when he lost almost everything will still fight for his people and the world of man...Rohan at his finest !! One of the best character of the whole trilogy, great arc !
Its honestly so complex. Its easy to sit there like the normied and be like everyone should just listen to Gandalf... but when its your people dying and you just been manipulated by your trusted advisor and white wizard Saruman.. many ppl wont leap to suddenly listen to white wizard Gandalf and his council when he's saying you need to go to war when you're severely disadvantaged.
Meet Saruman in open battle without your armies? It's a much safer option to withdraw and hold out a siege and survive at Helmsdeep
The movies really handle the difficulty in banding together and doing the heroic right thing when all odds are against you. Theoden was one of the great kings who sure made mistakes but he learns and grows.
Theres some great characters in the series
Imo Theoden is one of the most humanized fantasy characters I've ever seen...proud and noble and stubborn and grumpy all the same
Also the best speeches!
@@cthulhuwu_ for real! He's such a warrior poet!
@@cthulhuwu_ Arise! Arise riders of theoden! 😂
In the books, Faramir did not steal Frodo and Sam of their mission, they never went back to Gondor or Osgaliath. They just solved matters in that hidden forest. Faramir was very wise indeed in Books.
Faramir even says something along the lines of, "Even if I found this treasure by the side of the road, I would not take it."
Also, The Ring is not only not talked about so openly before others, as Faramir does in Osgiliath, but is never explicitly called that by those who do talk about it.
@@BobBlumenfeld indeed. And Frodo really is wise too in Books, the way he conversed with Faramir after dinner while Sam is quite the opposite as in blurting things out loud.
I don't think you understand the dynamic of the elves at all, if you give that much sh*t to Elrond and to Galadriel. They are all leaving because the power of the rings will end with the ending of the war. Elrond and the elves will be leaving Middle-Earth forever. Arwen electing to stay will also mean that Elrond will live on in Valinor forever, without his daughter. That's why he's evoking the love between them. He's terrified at that prospect, which is perfectly understandable. It's more than a father disapproving of his daughter's lover, it's a father who is about to lose his daughter forever, and I mean forever.
As for fighting, they'd been fighting off evil throughout the entirety of the first two ages. The moment Sauron's power is vanquished, so will the power of their rings, their power. They will just devolve to an ordinary rustic people. Their doom then is imminent, whether Sauron wins or not. This final war is therefore almost meaningless to them at this evening of their time.
Also, Tolkien famously said he disliked direct allegories. He's in favour of the reader finding their own meaning in his works. Tolkien also famously romanticised nature and disliked the rapid industrialisation of the world during the 20th century. The Ents are quite probably a mirror of that, a fantasy of his of nature rising up against the machines, but if you find the US in them (which is weird for me ngl) you do you. I will just say that this part is not in the books, so it's not even Tolkien. In the books, Merry and Pippin's "hasty" personality spurs Treebeard to gather the moot and the ents just decide to fight. A certain ent, "Quickbeam" immediately decides to fight, so he just joins the hobbits while the other ents talk it out. His trees were the ones on the edge of Orthanc, so he harboured the greatest resent to Saruman. They cut him out in the movie to save time and just gave his part to Treebeard. In general, they don't really hesitate. All they needed was the spark.
Yep, the guy in the right corner pull out some stuff that just not accurate.
Yea they clearly don't know this much backstory with them tho lol Just taking it for surface value
This is what happens when people don't read books, but then proceed to talk about what the author's intent was. Jackson and his writing team of Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, and Stephen Sinclair did a great job, but they dropped the ball now and then. Faramir got the short end of the stick, although I understand why they changed the character. However, you then get people who while watching the movie think he is a jerk.
@@Rabbithole8
Yeah, that's another thing. Jackson cut off a large portion of the third book. So he pushed the climax of Frodo's journey in the 2nd book to the 3rd movie. That's why he had to invent a new climax for the 2nd movie. Book Faramir is awesome.
@@Rabbithole8 I think they're beign a bit dramatic tho too lol I never thought he was a jerk..his father is the catalyst for their faults anyway(boromir and faramir) but they'll change their tune by the next movie Im sure of him
Faramir was one of my favorites from the books. One of my favorite quotes in the series was from him, "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Lord of the Rings not only inspired game of thrones but the entire sword and fantasy genre as we know it. Dungeons & Dragons would not exist without Lord of the Rings.
The sword and fantasy genre existed long before Lord of the Rings.
@@ctvuniverse4414 yes, which is why I made a qualifier with “as we know it”.
@@ctvuniverse4414 should probably try to comprehend what someone is saying before trying to correct them.
@@ctvuniverse4414but he did practically create high fantasy.
The extended part with Faramir and Boromir was much needed
When the old man(bowmaster) shoots the Uruk-hai, Aragorn says "hold!" In elvish because he did not believe men could make such an accurate shot from that distance.
That's actaully pretty funny, I never realized. Guess that's when he finally started having hope for men again lmao
I feel bad for the old man. I don't know if he survived, but I imagine the Uruks would have kept doing their intimidation thing for quite a while longer, and perhaps fewer men would have died in the battle before Gandalf showed up. But him releasing his arrow so quickly meant the battle started that much sooner.
The Ents weren't hesitant to join the fight in the book. They had just been chilling in the woods for so long, that it was a literal wake-up call when the hobbits showed up and told them what was happening out in the world. Jackson and his crew made them more hesitant just to pad out the movie a bit. So no, the Ents weren't meant to be America or any other neutral nation.
But the way the Ents acted is a good argument for them being inspirations from America.
This is actually one of my biggest gripes with the movies. Everybody who's selfless and noble in the books is selfish in the movies and only rallies to the cause when the are affected personally (Treebeard, Faramir). In the books it's a lot more about doing the right thing just because.
@@abinye2408 That part about Smeagol I get at least. Tolkien kinda did want his audience to feel some of degree of compassion for Gollum. Peter Jackson maybe went a bit over the top with it, but Faramir and Treebeard ... turning them around by almost 180 degrees? And Elrond? Yeah, I dunno, he is Elrond Half-Elven from that one line where there were multiple unions of Elf women and human men (not the other way round though, but let's not go there) all the way down from legendary Luthien of who Aragorn sings on Weathertop. He of all people should not be able to disrespect Arwen's decision, but oh well.
"So no, the Ents weren't meant to be America or any other neutral nation." - I think one of the problems is that in the movies there are but brief clues about what the Ents are. One has to listen carefully to Treebeard, addressing Gandalf as "young master" Gandalf in order to figure out that the Ents were in Middle Earth long before the Wizards. And one would have to listen carefully to the Extended version of TTT to hear Gandalf say he's been around for 300 lives of men, to know that the Wizards are really old and not human. The Ents role is more primitive, a way of giving trees human-like capabilities as far as communications. But viewers of the movies who have not read anything by Tolkien would be hard pressed to put Ents in their context in Tolkien's mythology.
@@BirdBrain0815 Do you not understand Elrond’s position here?
One thing you said concerning Éowyn being sent away from the battle when a male heir would have been called to fight: in the Legendarium, it was made a Gondorian law that one potentential heir to the throne must always stay behind in Gondor when there was a war. So it would not be unheard of to leave men behind at home, even if they were able to fight. And since the house of Eorl (the royal dynasty of Rohan) had only three remaining members and Théoden couldn't reach Éomer, it made sense to him to order Éowyn to hide.
Thank you for pointing this out.
I love how Merry and Pippin exemplify the idea of being forced to grow up quick. It's like when children go through certain hardships, they age faster, mentally. They somewhat suddenly behave differently, because the have to. It's a sad thing that really happens, but there's good that can come out of it.
They were already adults though.
As a survivor of war and trauma, this is correct
@@YamiAi I thought they were supposed to be Tweens in the books?
@@BatmanFanGirl If you consider 29 and 37 years of age to be teens...
@@YamiAi It's called tweens in the book series. Their age lengths are different from humans. A grown adult hobbit is considered as such at 33. I'm pretty sure Pippen at least was a tween, but Merry might have been older.
It's obvious as hell to Faramir that Gollum is a monster. He saw Gollum perfectly well when he interrogated him. Also that interrogation was obviously needed, Faramir knew Frodo was lying about him and Sam being on the journey together. They are in the war, so you really can't blame him for anything.
I got so pissed how they talked about Faramir here…
The Virgin Battle for Winterfell vs the Chad Battle of Helm's Deep
That's ironic, considering that there are far more virgins in this battle than in Game of Thrones.
@@ctvuniverse4414 hurr hurr hurr they never showed SEX which is really MATURE in this movie that means it's full of dumb idiot virgins lol xd lololol xdxdxdxd. LE EPIC GAME OF THRONES shows sex which means it's more mature than the lord of the rings or more like LORD OF THE NERDS HURR HURR HURR Did I mention how MATURE SEX IS!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Winterfell was so dumb they fought a siege battle OUTSIDE their own walls. Their strategy was risible.
@@commander9087 my dude...
GOT focused too much on sex, they didnt get much else right😂 went from one of the best shows ever to pretty much being forgotten about because of the last season
Fun Fact: Tolkien was inspired for the Ent’s march on Isengard by Macbeth! In the play, it is prophesied that the very forest will rise up against Macbeth. The twist that happens at the end of the story is that the opposing army disguises themselves as a forest by tying branches to their limbs - so it wasn’t a real forest, just a trick. Tolkien read this and was super disappointed that it was a trick, instead of actual trees uprooting themselves and marching, so when it was time for him to write his own story he made sure it was real trees rising up
Everyone in the theatre was laughing and pointing at the screen when the Ent doused his burning head! Little details like that is why the movie is so awesome 😁
I think that was something of an Easter-egg by the production staff.
lol I always liked that lil part/detail too
The CGI group working on the Battle of Isengard had a lot of fun with it.
Haldir has never gotten this much respect and attention from reactors, and I'm here for it lol
He was one my favorites. I cried when he died
@@danielledaniel1900 There's a cool scene involving Haldir, Sam, and Frodo that was never featured in the Fellowship Extended Edition but it's in the script.
During the added scene before the fellowship meets Galadriel where Haldir is telling them they can go no further and the members of the fellowship are giving Frodo weird looks which he would later see again in the mirror; Sam and Frodo are looking out to the horizon and Haldir talks to them, explaining what lies in the far reaches of the forest including a name drop of Dol Guldur, the fortress Azog and his forces dwell in during the Hobbit trilogy. It was a nice short scene, kinda wish it was included. It's probably among the 4 hours of scenes that still haven't been included in, even the Extended Editions
@@oscarjohnson2130 I read books once year and the small scene with was what made me like him.
yeah likely because he shouldn't be at Helm's Deep. better to ignore.
So many people were involved in the helms deep scene that they had tshirts made that said "I survived the battle of helms deep"
Documentary gang
@@jens2049 The documentaries are better than the films.
The Ents were mostly just Tolkien's answer to Macbeth. He was really excited when he heard the witches prophesied that Birnam Wood would come to Dunsinane. He imagined that the trees themselves would move. Then was disappointed that it was just men carrying branches cut from the trees there.
Aragorn is technically distantly related to the elves and his sub-species of man makes him long-lived but still mortal. His like greatx60 grandfather was Elrond's brother.
Helm's Deep is honestly the best battle in cinema history. It's just non-stop chills. So many have attempted to imitate its intensity, but none have ever succeeded. Honestly, though, it's just because Peter Jackson was so true to Tolkien's work. It was my favourite part of the books too.
Saving Private Ryan had the better battle IMO.
It took 40 days to shoot
i understand how those movies even in their theatrical versions seem(and are) long af, but no, i wouldn't have them shorter like a "normal" hollywood fare. the source material DESERVES respectful handling, the world and the characters and the events DESERVE to be flashed out properly. it isn't meant to be watched when you are bored on a friday night necessarily, like some light comedy or a couple episodes of some netflix stuff. It's meant to be an experience, full immersion, dedicate time to it, get lost in it, appreciate it. as much as i dislike comically big screens that are so popular nowadays, these films deserve one of those. they are a triumph of filmmaking in many ways, and yeah, they should be this long.
To bad that PJ felt to need to change the story and characters so much and unnecessarily.
The march of the ents always gives me chills. Even when it's just a 5 second clip in a reaction video. I love that scene.
It's so funny that one of the scenes that get some of the highest cheers - Legolas swinging himself up on that horse - was just a last minute solution for Peter Jackson. He had shot Legolas shooting his arrows, and in a later scene Legolas on a horse, but nothing about how he got up on the horse. The visual effects guys had to come up with something, and voila! :)
I recently watched these movies with my friend Who had never seen them and when legolas swings himself up onThe horse he said " that was fucking awesome!!! But that not how pysichs works..." 😂
@@elite_rock_god2292 oh you know what you can tell your friend... that they would be right on that point... if elves weren't supernaturally light.
in the books there's more to the scene with the fellowship travelling up the mountain pass. While Gandalf and the men have to trudge through the snow with the hobbits behind them, Legolas is able to stand on top of the surface of freshly fallen snow...and not even leave footprints. It's the secret to why they're known to be so graceful; they canonically weigh almost nothing despite being strong enough to fight.
@@jaysuscrass9119 yes i know how elfs works, i just tought it was a funny first reaction to it 😂
@@elite_rock_god2292 Elven physics works differently.
@@DrD0000M ye they dont really exist 😂😜 Dwarfs have diffrent pysichs as well it seems 😂
Important to understand: Tolkien was no fan of allegory, quite the opposite. In one letter, he says that applicability and allegory are two entirely different things. While he admits that his life experiences *informed* his writing, he was never trying to represent something or spread a message.
I think that applicability and allegory are absolutely present in LOTR but it's defnitely something that was more of an inclusion in the movies than in the books.
@@oscarjohnson2130 One can *assign* allegory to Tolkien's work, but that would only be reading something into it that was never there. Tolkien explicitly says that he dislikes allegory and is horrified that his audience would often look for it.
@@lukehuizenga4228 True, true. There definitely is a habit among film and book lovers of reading too far into certain things
IIRC he said if LotR was an allegory for WW2 then Gandalf would have used the ring.
@@lukehuizenga4228 It's just so easy to look for allegory in his works. When you have a writer as skilled and detailed as Tolkien, you just expect there to be something deeper, double meanings and references. Tolkien just wanted to write a cool fantasy mythology and took his own experiences to inform the story.
Rohan has large bands of men riding around the westfold (Rohan) protecting it. Eomir is they're "commander". The five days Gandalf spent was him finding Eomir and going around gathering up all the different bands and getting them into an army.
Tolkien would have hated soooo much hearing the Ents being compared to America
He did not like allegory’s in general
Its their own interpretation
The Ents of Fangorn were inspired by a very specific biotope in Wales, known as the celtic rain forest.
The only commonality it has with America is that it sits on the same ancient mountain range, the Hercinian chain, that extends in the US to form the Appalachians.
@@TheZapan99 Tolkien also said he was very disappointed by the scene in MacBeth where the forest of something-or-other comes to fight, so he decided he could write something much better.
It’s also just a bad interpretation which shows their lack of historical understanding
Aragorn doesn’t live long because of his relationship with Arwen. It really is just cause of his lineage
I agree that it was unfair for Elrond to pull the "don't I also have your love?" question. However, I can only imagine that after seeing his wife Celebian off to Valinor (after she'd been brutally tortured by orcs, then rescued, but showed no promise of recovery) and missing her for 500 years, that the last thing he wants to think about is never seeing his beloved daughter again, 'cause she went mortal, and ultimately died of grief. I'm sure he'd love nothing more than to have his whole family back together, forever, and would do or say close to anything in order to see that through. Instead he'll have to grieve for his daughter til the end of days. Terrible situation for the old boy.
what ? no it wasn't unfair...
it's a normal response for a father that's about to lose his daughter.
I don't understand why there's so much talk around this
He also lost his twin brother to mortality! Since they were half-elven, they got to choose, and Elros choose mortality, just like Arwen was.
@@davidnobre5660 It's manipulative. It's the same as saying "Choose one of us" or "Who do you love more?". I understand where Elrond is coming from both from his past and as Arwen's father, but it could've been phrased better.
@@reindogfan what matters is what he meant, and both of them knew what he meant
the rest doesn't matter
He was just reminding her that she would have love in her life if she stayed with her people.
Can they not read the room?! Faramir literally had Gollum figured out at the pool when Gollum took over Smeagol for that spell and yet the Normies think heis being an idiot. Faramir knows that if Gollum betrays Frodo, the world may be done.
The Normies (especially Rana) don't tend to pick up on little things like that.
Well, the kicking the shit out of him thing wasn't called for, since Smeagol was still in control there. So that was definitely a dick move. But years of fighting against orcs are probably gonna make a guy very unsympathetic to something he probably perceives as one.
The Elves were doing a LOT of fighting during the War of the Ring. Sauron was attacking Dwarven, Elven, and Human kingdoms all over Middle Earth at this time. His campaigns against Lothlorien, Mirkwood, Erebor/Dale, each involved armies 10x the size of the force that attacked Helms Deep. Would love a mini-series on the campaign in Dale and Erebor; seeing Dain Ironfoot fighting at the gates of Erebor, alongside the grandson of Bard the Bowmen. That would be pretty epic.
Tolkein hotly denied that The Lord of the Rings was an allegory. He said if it had been based on either of the world wars, they would absolutely have used the ring, no matter how evil a weapon it was.
He said he wanted his stories to be *applicable* not allegorical, when people tried to suggest the Ents were the League of Nations.
Smeagol and Golum are the same person, and remember, even the "Smeagol" side of him MURDERED his best friend over a shiny ring he just saw that moment. Yes, he should be pitied, but is no where near innocent in any way.
Not just best friend but his cousin.
@@nathanielreik6617 Eh, cousin really isn't all that close. I would definitely choose my best friend over a mere cousin.
Not just any gold ring though. The One Ring is so powerful that even in that small amount of time, it's evil corrupted poor Smeagol into killing.
It's not like Smeagol saw a quarter in the road and went on a rampage...
The thing about the Uruks starting ON top of the ladders has always facinated me.
If you look closely, some of them don't even wait until the ladder docks, some JUMP off and over the wall.
And that is because those particular Uruk-hai are berserkers, so their relentless, savage brutality and disregard for their own lives in their drive to quench their bloodlust lets the grunts climb the ladders unopposed while the berserker goes ham.
The dude on the right say Viggo is gay, but he's not.
Exactly! Arwen begs to differ.
"Where was Gondor..."
Gondor's kinda busy with Mordor at the moment.
😂😂😂
Sam's speech is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series❤
The music 'Golums theme' at the end of this film is beautiful.
Elrond likely has issues with Aragorn because his brother chose to be mortal, and Arwen is choosing to be mortal as well
well I would also have issues to never see my daughter again.....................
Aragorn is also Elrond's fifty-something-times-great-grand-nephew. :P
There's also the small problem of his wife no longer seeing any of her children since Elrond's sons stayed in Rivendel for a long time after Frodo left Middle-Earth, and we have no more information. That's rough buddy.
"The tree's been smoking himself." Thank you for that
We of the trees do like to refer to ourselves as Ents.
Damarin's trivia's a bit spotty. Christopher Lee was knighted, Viggo's not 'gay' (though he has alluded to not be 100% straight either), and really... Haldir being Legolas' father? Comon, mate. :P
Could tell his background knowledge wasn't too goof in the first film reaction when there was a lot of misinformation on a Balrog, Istria, elves, etc.
Yeah Haldir is from a completely different forest. Legolas is from Mirkwood and is the son of king thranduil. Mirkwood and King Thranduil are in the hobbit
That dude says everything he thinks with 100% confidence, and it's infuriating. Like when he said there can only be one wizard of each color, apparently not aware that the only two never shown were both Blue.
@@MontgomeryWenis The most dangerous kind of misinformation is the misinformation presented as absolute fact, especially to a group called "the Normies" Haha. D: I'm happy they all enjoyed it, but fact checking the 'fact checker' would also be fun!
@@Cakeyyama 😂
Yeah right.....while the others were like, "Oh really?" to him😂
"Viggo's gay."
Except he's not, lol.
I must have missed that part. When did anyone say that? I wonder if they're getting things confused with speculation that Richard Armitage was the guy that McKellan accidentally outed during the filming of the Hobbit. I don't think there's ever been confirmation of that either thought.
@@Reedstilt I thought that was said to be Lee Pace? In any case, Viggo has a wife and son, so I assume he's either bi or straight. :P
@@AnnekeOosterink McKellan kind of outed Lee Pace by name in that interview, though his sexuality had been an open secret for a while. He also mentioned two of the dwarfs without specifying which two. Adam Brown (Ori) was already out at the time, so that just one dwarf that people were speculating about at the time.
Gandalf was able to get the troops thats were exiled when the king was cursed if he had more time he could have gotten all of Rohan
There's a Chinese (I think) technique of scaling a wall where the first person holding the ladder runs up the wall while everyone behind them is pushing them up along with the ladder. I don't think it was an inspiration for the uruk hai's way of doing it, but it looks really cool and kind of similar.
(you can see it in one scene in the movie Musa: The Warrior, and they did it for real, completely practical and without wires.)
Correct, but only because the ladders were made with highly flexible bamboo. It's shown correctly in AtLA book 1, The Blue Spirit.
It is not "eco" because of Peter Jackson. Tolkien was himself very much against industrialization and city live and pro simple rustic life. That's where it all comes from
Peter Jackson, not Jordan.
Yeah, they were saying Peter Jackson was being true to the books
@@BobBlumenfeld Phone Typo, I meant Jackson
Another weird parellel...Aragorn in his younger days under his alias Thorongel went to Gondor to help fight the Corsairs of Umbar(which he later sicks a ghost army on). He gained the love of the gondorians and especially Denethors father Ecthelion II. Who seemed to like Aragorn more than he liked Denethor...
Thorongil ^^ And yeah, Denethor was super jealous of him.
in middle earth dragons are literally the creations of the most evil being to ever exist, morgoth/melkor, the first dark lord and sauron's master
“Gandalf looks angelic”……. Well… he is actually an angel.
GRRM took inspiration from Tolkien but specifically it was to do the opposite of what Tolkien did. It's not a really fair comparison between LotR and Asoiaf...
Aye, it's almost like comparing comedy vs action or drama. Tolkien focuses more on evil corrupting people and being a present force, whilst the good is inside everyone and the bonds and hopes of a better tomorrow can push back the evil within and those struggling in between.
GRRM is about the people themselves and their inner struggles, there's no higher power that judges or punishes those who are evil or good, nor is there truly such forces, just humans being human and the complexity behind our reasons and actions to create conflict.
I mean, he basically made LOTR, but in a realistic, grimy setting.
@@alexjames4770 Realistic is not the right word. It's not exactly realistic that Arya travels the whole war-torn continent and survives for example. It's more of a critical look at high fantasy than a realistic portrayal
@@OsefKincaid Sure it is. There are many hard to believe stories of war survivors in the real world. I mean, imagine a world where 2 sides of the bloodiest conflict in history, fueled by racial and religious hate is halted by a holiday, and both armies come together to play a common sports game. Oh wait, that actually DID happen, and was the soccer game during the Christmas truce during WW1 between British and German troops, played in no mans land between the 2 sides trenches. Ridiculous things happen all the time. Doesn’t mean that aren’t realistic.
The elves were busy fighting their own war. Lothlorien was under attack from Dol Guldur and Legolas' father was busy fighting Orcs in his realm as well
The elves replace the Grey Company, the Rangers of the North, in the films. That was sadly necessary to simplify the plot.
Everyone always forgets about the thousands of other Greeks who fought alongside the 300 Spartans.
I watched the whole set of the lord of rings extended because of you guys! It was a really really pleasant time binge watching this amazing series. I wish I could of went on the bandwagon of the rings earlier!
They really did Faramir and the Ents dirty in this one. In the books Faramir is completely different. He is wise, honorable, doesn’t have daddy issues, doesn’t beat Sméagol, and refuses the Ring completely. The Ents go to war without being manipulated or talked into it and aren’t cowards and ignoring/uncaring about the outside world. Both are noble and brave. I understand why they changed it from a movie standpoint, as it leaves Aragorn as the ultimate badass Man, and gives a place in the movie for Merry and Pippin to do something important. But since both these characters are my favorites in the books, it always bugs me how they are portrayed in the movies.
Thank you! It really bothered me that so much was changed from the books.
Same! I hate what they did to Faramir in the movies.
"You walked all this way to die first" is one of the best lines I've ever heard
Gandalf arrived with the light in his back, so the Orcs were being blinded.
Furthermore he was looking for the Rhohirrm.
Well, Eowyn did defend the women and children in the keep when they rode out. Its a shame they didn't show that in the film
There's production photos of Eowyn fighting an orc in the Glittering Caves.
"They have ladders!?"
She says. Genuinely surprised an army would bring a ladder to climb a wall.
Sir Christopher Lee is the only actor in the trilogy how have met Tolkien
That "stories that really matter" scene always makes me tear up.
I’ve never seen someone love Gollum as much as Rana 😭 Tbh I always hated Gollum cause he creeped me out as a child.
And I know Faramir made a mistake, but Boromir did too. They’re both actually very honorable though, especially considering how their father is. Now I _really_ wish Faramir’s line from the books was featured in the movies.... 😔
Can’t wait to see the third movie reaction though 👀
There's another CZcamsr called Ash who watched the Trilogy with his girlfriend and his girlfriend feels a lot for Gollum so you could check that out.
The "wrath and ruin" speech always gives me goosebumps.
Grima and his candle near the gunpowder gets me everything 🤣
Where was Gonder when the West Fold fell? 😌
I love the final Gollum scene. The difference between them isn't good vs bad. The difference is that Smeagol is a coward.
This movie pissed me off because in the books Faramir was such an awesome charachter, he never wanted to take the ring and he sent Frodo and Sam off on their quest with supplies.
Just tossing this out there - Tolkien hated allegory. He openly stated this and brought up he was sure his experiences showed up in his writing, but it was never intentional!
you talked through the entirety of Theoden's speech pre-battle of helms deep. In my opinion, that is one of the most haunting lines in the entire film.
Aragorn was from the race of men from Numenor, who were way above normal men but Sauron corrupted Numenor and it was destroyed, the surviving Numenorian's founded the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor.
In the novel Faramir was a lot more reasonable and supportive. I guess he was changed to have more drama
When the wall was blown up, I almost had a hard attack. Teenage me couldn’t the shock. A wonderful fight scene at night during a storm - and we, the viewers, could actually see something. Great reaction.
What took Gandalf 5 days was him rounding up the other armies of Rohan horsemen, like you guys said. That's why it took him a long ass time, because he had to travel hundreds of miles to collect everyone, and then take them over to Helms Deep
No, the LOTR is not “a big allegory”. Tolkien hated allegory. It was one of the recurring points of argument between himself and C.S. Lewis.
Viggo Mortenson Baught That horse you see in the movie in that scene that helps him after he falls in the river.
He also bought like three more. 😂 can’t remember the exact number.
Yep he did and some others too for some of the crew. I also loved the appendices showing Viggo rehearsing / training for that scene with the horse. He did it for weeks so the horse trusted him, as they were aware there was a risk the horse could crush him as it knelt down if they didn’t know each other very well.
I still hate the way they handled Faramir in the movies. He is so much wiser, and one of the few characters who shows resistance towards the ring in the books.
I guess part of the reason why Gandalf arrived at that exact time is because the orcs get blinded by the light, so Gandalf showed up in the east to blind the orcs. That is also probably the reason why the orcs arrived at night and not at any other time during the day
They didn't defend the weak spot in the wall, because nobody has seen an explosion before.
Saruman basically was the first who used it gunpowder like that.
given some time then Saruman would have given his uruks rifles lol
Saruman's destructive use of gunpowder is a poetic inversion of Gandalf's fireworks.
So I’m the books Sauromon’s forces do actually attack the shire. That’s what Frodo’s vision in “the mirror” suggests. They didn’t actually include it in the films, I assume cause it involves more characters barely seen and I think they wanted to keep the shire as a location that was pure. But I like that it’s alluded to as a possibility
Saruman
Also, you should have waited until their reaction for the third movie with this comment.
when i first watch LotR as a kid. i immediately thought "this is a masterpiece"
years gone by and i've watched countless movies / series, sometimes when i'm reminded about LotR, i thought "so many good movies, compared to LotR, was LotR even good at all or was it just because it's my first fantasy / trilogy ever. i doubt that if i watch LotR again, i'd only find it decent at best, so i never did.
But for the first time after more than a decade, i watch this movie again with you guys. GODAMMIT. IT IS STILL A MASTERPIECE. how could i doubt it
I'm obligated by law to tell you that vigo and brego bonded so tightly on set that he purchased him and took him home. He has since passed. RIP BREGO
Everyone needs a Sam.
To feel the love and dedication behind these movies give a try to the production and behind-the-scenes documentaries, they kinda revolutionized moviemaking with Serkis's Gollum performance.
The whole idea you mentioned about funneling orcs is also why the bridge in Moria was so narrow, it would force any army invading from the East (which Mordor would be in that direction) to be funneled into a line of only 1 or 2 wide with their sides completely exposed to archers.
Fun Fact: Sams line when they are taken to Gondor by Faramir: "We shouldn't even be here" is more than correct. In the books Faramir let's them go and helps them to reach the secret entrance into Mordor.
I always loved that nod to the books and the changes they had to do to make the movie work better.
28:28 Rana to Faramir: "f*ck you"
6 seconds later: "cheers to you bro"
She's absolutely vapid.
Please don't assume that you understand a creator's intention without doing the research to support your claims. Usually I wouldn't really care, but lotr is very near and dear to me and I love the fact that Tolkien hated allegory. And also, there is al ot of behind the scenes material( not just in the special edition Blu rays and dvd's) that explains in detail everything about the creator of Middle Earth and the process. Once you've watched all of the documentaries (regarding Tolkien that is) I'd love to hear your opinions.
r/gatekeeping
@@theshadowfax239 How is it gatekeeping when I just want them not to assume they know the writers intentions? I love the fact that they liked the movies.
Research lmao. They always discuss every single thing they react to immediately after they watch it. Do you expect them to break out books and documentaries seconds after the movie ends? They're just giving their immediate thoughts. Its literally not a big deal at all. Why should it matter to them you care about Lord of the Rings so much. You admit you normally wouldn't care. So its your own bias here really.
Chad the elf😂😂😂. Seriously the funniest thing I’ve heard in reaction to these movies.
Poor Haldir. He not a chad
@@danielledaniel1900 😂😂. I know, right? What a sad fate!!
@@morganrobinson2436 they completely misunderstood the character. He was favorite of mine and loved the actor
@@danielledaniel1900 I’ve been a big fan of Haldir’s character since the books. Even though he has the smallest part, as an elf, he’s very Brutal and aggressive in nature compared to the others. It’s a tiny look into the cast system of elves, also, the whole ‘mountain elves’ that Celeborn’s lineage comes from is just really fascinating!
@@morganrobinson2436 same. Even though he had same role in the books. The character caught my interest
24:30 It's kind of interesting how Sam chose this exact moment to reveal that he knew exactly what happened to Boromir, and now decided to reveal it. Perhaps he wanted to spare Frodo from additional burden.
going after faramir and defending gollum... even if they treated him nicely he is too far gone, he will do anything for that ring. i think you keep forgetting how strong the ring of power is to bend people's morals and beliefs for its benefit and survival. the movies did not portray faramir as in the books but he is still doing what he thinks is best for his people who are at the forefront of this war, also he has serious daddy issues give him a break.
I absolutely love these movies. Such a great adaptation. However I have 2 big complaints. 1 is in the next movie. The other one is in this movie. In the book Faramir never tried to take the ring back to Gondor. He gave Sam and Frodo supplies and let them go. "But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo."
Faramir is one of my favorite characters so it breaks my heart seeing people not like him because they changed his character. J.R.R Tolkien himself actually identified with Faramir the most. Really sad what Peter Jackson did to him.
AGREEE!!
Faramir's characterization in this adaptation is to emphasize how dangerous and enticing the ring is. He was changed for the exact same reason Tom Bombadil was entirely removed : while it can work in a long and detailed book, you can't just have a movie tell you that the Ring is coveted by anyone looking at it, and suddenly have a guy saying "Nah, I don't care, I'm not interested in it." It sends mixed messages and it simply doesn't work in film language. You need stronger and solidified plot points to maintain suspension of disbelief with people who have never read the Book.
I bet the second thing is Denethors portrayal in the final movie
@@invock Yes - unfortunately too many people think adaptation means "slavish devotion to the original work", rather than recognizing the differences between written word and film, and then literally adapting the story to work as a film. The changes they make to Faramir in the films do nothing to change his character at a fundamental level - in the film we're seeing why he chooses to reject the ring, which essentially support his statements in the book. If, in the film, he chose to take the ring, then lost it later and it was returned to Frodo - that would be a fundamental change to the character that I would take issue with.
I completely agree. I think they went a bit overboard in making Faramir a lot angrier and more violent. I think you can show Faramir not be tempted by the ring as he was in the book and it work out fine. It especially would have been a good difference to make between Faramir and Boromir as well. Its not like there is an overabundance of people who arent tempted by the ring, its mainly Aragorn and Faramir they would draw attention to.
Same Marketa! I clearly remember when I watched in theaters the scene when the ents march. Literally went home to ...lime..wire... or whatever we were using back then to get the soundtrack cause that moment literally gave me chills!
Battle of the Bastards Got - when the Vale showed up to save the day, I literally yelled 'ROHIRIM!!!'