People seem to forget this is a training scenario. There are certain rules added to create scenarios that are unlikely in real life, but that pilots must nevertheless be prepared and trained for. The F-16s here were allowed to close to dogfighting distance before the F-15s took evasive maneuvers. Additionally, the F-16s are Aggressors (the instructors/mock adversaries in training missions), meaning they have some of the best pilots who live for these sorts of things. This scenario is important for the F-15 pilots. They had the advantage over craft like F-16s in every scenario EXCEPT this one, which is the whole point. They are training to learn how to deal with their one weakness. If this were a more standard fight and the fighters had space and time before engaging at dogfighting distances, the F-15 would the advantage. Thus it would be F-16 pilots training against F-15 Aggressiors at BVR.
This doesn’t look a training scenario to me. None of the maneuvers, reactions, or even radio chatter are how these things are trained or practiced. My money is this being scripted and filmed entirely as an advertisement.
Do not forget that the F-16 has an overall air-to-air record of 76-1 and it was the first aircraft designed to do 9 G turns so in a close in dogfight it can more then handle its own.
@@tzeffsmainchannel We all know. What the guy was implying is that, while the F-15s record is certainly impressive, the F-16s record is certainly nothing to frown at
I'm friends with an ex-airguard pilot. He used to fly F-16's but now he's flying our resident L-19 at our glider club. Based on his accounts, the F-16 is a better dogfighter, but the 15 is the better all around aircraft because it can double as a great ground attack fighter.
Correct. The F16 is definitely better for air combat. It’s much more maneuverable and substantially smaller than the F15. The F15 is a much better long range, beyond visual LOS, and all around aircraft
This is such a realistic portrayal of a BFM environment. The best way to avoid a guns kill is to barrell roll to the right while your defensive, there are so many benefits, you lose airspeed, your mass stays right in front of the guy trying to kill you. Its also really smart to pop flares in a guns fight, it looks awesome. And the last thing you need is height, its important to stay as close to the ground as possible. The slower you are the cooler everything looks.
In reply to a couple of questions, the F-15 does have rear-view mirrors mounted on the arch of the front section of the canopy. The F-16 has nowhere for mirrors to be mounted. Was "interesting" that when the F-15 pilot called "break left" and was seen to throw the stick to the left, the aircraft rolled to the right. Also, in the final scenes with the gun kill it was clearly the F-16 doing the shooting and yet the 16 has a side-stick whereas the trigger was pulled on the centre-mounted joystick.
Looks like an F-16 marketing commercial. Nothing like a real dog fight. The F-15 fighter pilots would never be in a dog fight like that with F-16s. Ask any F-15 pilot and he will tell you the strengths of the F-15 were never shown in this video. The F-15 can easily out climb the F-16. F-16 with its tiny wings has far higher wing loading. The engine is too small to overcome the aero drag at the speeds at which the F-15 is capable of climbing. It will have to turn the nose far earlier than the F-15 and the F-15 easily could turn around and get behind the F-16.
Lmao I know someone who worked in the USAF with F-16s and they will tell you there is no better thrust to weight ratio than the F-16s F-15 would not simply out climb it
Well, this was done for the cinematography. I used to fly them. The formations you see here are only 100-200 feet apart. They actually are more like 1.5 miles line abreast when in tactical formation. F-15 has way better long range capability. From 25K feet and above, F-15 has more capability. 13-25K the F-16 has turn advantage from 300-500 knots airspeed. F-15 always has slow speed advantage since it has no AOA restrictions from a computer. Below 10K altitude planes are equal until slow
Yup the 16 is made to be a close up turning fighter. The 15 like u said is better in every other way, but is it almost twice as good? It costs twice as much, as twice the power plants, and twice the weight. Not twice the amount of highly trained pilots tho. 15 has a big advantage in top altitude and climbing, both those are important when it comes to energy.
The F-15 in all air forces has an air-to-air combined record of 104 kills to 0 losses in air combat as of February 2008. To date, no air superiority versions of the F-15 (A/B/C/D models) have ever been shot down by enemy forces.
they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. f-15s superior radar gives better BVR capabilities and it has a better thrust to weight ratio so better vertical performance. f-16 has a better turning rate, roll speed, and turning radius plus a smaller profile. f-15 wins BVR, but the f-16 is specifically designed for dogfighting and has better BFM capabilities so will win a turning fight.
The F-15 has never been shot down, even in dogfights, and is arguably better in some aspects. I still have to believe that this is a video made to advertise how "new and improved" the F-16 is. I still have to say that the F-15 is a better plane in dogfighting. Although the F-16 may be able to carry more weapons, does that really matter if the target is reliable and fast?
lol f 16 is single engine aeridinamyc fighter and is the best for dogfights and medium range missions while f 15 is big twin engine for longer missions, in dogfights f 16 can destroy f 15 everytime everywhere
The F-15 would have been in a patrol, and even on its own it is equipped with very good radar, and would have detected the F-16(haha almost typed 26) but the F-16 is used more commonly in the USAF. Probably the law of large numbers caused the shootdowns. Anyways, what kind of pilot was piloting this F-15? Dogfighting up close is easier if you can turn around fast, and when they are catching up shoot a missile. OH, also, copying your last comment seems lazy(look down, hmm?)
And for your entertainment, the basics of dogfighting: 1. Keep behind your enemy. 2. If your opponent charges on you, do not try and retreat, rather fly to meet them. 3. Do not fire until your enemy is in your complete sight.
(lol sorry for three comments) one last note, look at the first comment. "In some aspects" and "better plane in dogfighting" And I say this because although the F-16 is lighter, more manueverable and built for dogfights, the F-15 can use its speed to the advantage. They can just do their little "rocket away" thing, as stated in one comment below. I know that there are advantages to the F-16 and it might be better in this kind of dogfight, but it all depends on the pilot. Anyways, I will stop here and say what a pleasure it's been to argue with you two, good day. And I'm doing this to make sure that the piece of trash here doesn't post another comment
@Chad show, if you look at it's vertical stabs, you can tell it's in the F-16 because it only had one in the centerline. EDIT: Umm never mind, I see, in the fighting sequence, it was center mounted...
The Hornet is obviously a very amazing machine for the fact it is replacing a lot of marines/navy's aircraft. Goes to show how versatile it is and they obviously love it when they keep having them make new versions of it to replace other aircraft. It started out as an underdog and the loser to the F-16 in contract but you really gotta give it respect.
The F-16 is more manueverable and has slightly better cockpit visibility, but the F-15 is a superior aircraft all-around. It can match any Russian fighter out there and with the technological and C2 advantage, edge them out across the board. If the Russians had the money we had they would be able to match us, but they just can't keep up. Their current Mig and Su series fighters and fighter/bombers are great 4th generation fighters...but nothing on the level of an F-22. On a side note, if the F-35 tried to conduct any of these moves it would fall apart in the sky.
If the Russians had the 16 trillion dollars of debt you mean? Which actually is 17 trillion now, growing by more than 2.5billion per day? , Long run, your country is fucked.
Star Wars Battlefront News! Fucked...if QE stops anytime soon by the fed. To be fair however the Russians have their own set of problems now. Their currency and the economy along with it is about to be decimated by global sanctions. It's a dangerous bet by Putin when he took Crimea. It might be a critical port for trade and the Russian Navy, but Russia will also pay severely in the long run. Taking on the EU and the US? I think he's overestimated his hand. If the US starts supplying the EU with natural gas (we have so much we just burn it off now), it takes all the leverage away from Putin to blackmail the EU. Russia is in a far worse position now than the US.
The US cannot even hope to supply us with Natural Gas, the pipeline alone would cost hundreds of billions, Money which the US simply doesn't have. It would be out of capacity the moment it started. Put simply, the EU is in Russia's Back pocket, he doesn't want to fight us , better rather to make money from a growing cash cow which deliberates rather than taking action. Also, the "Sanctions" have done fuck all. The sanctions simply comprised seizing a little over $3 million in assets that were outside of Crimea/Russia. Not a real big deal when you get down to it, Also the "Trade Sanctions" will only strengthen Chinese/Russian ties, which is a goddamn disaster for the US. due to their heavy investment in China, Obviously to try and better the relationship in the future. The "Trade Sanctions" have not even been mentioned since Crimea joined with Russia, simply because it was a bluff. The US and EU cannot afford to lose Russia's trade and exports. Russia's economy can tank it whilst we already being on the edge probably cannot. Also "Russia is in a far worse position now than the US" , Hardly, he has gained land practically for free, land with more natural resources and secured a vital power projection platform in the Mediterranean. All without much protest at all, America coughed and spluttered whilst the EU decidedly called "Neutral" , obviously except Germany. (The Blood Feud between those two countries is astonishingly resilient. Overall America is playing the Brave face whilst its economy further declines, Since Putin's first premiership he has sextupled Russia's GDP. Their "Real Income" , Not America's "Predicted"/"Estimated" or bullshit excuse to hide the real numbers has been increased by a factor of 2.5. and their average civilian wage has been tripled. I would say Russia is doing just fine at the moment, Meanwhile in America the wages have decreased on average by 15% , Real Income (The income that Government Media doesn't like to mention has actually decreased by a factor of 0.124 of its original value) And the Deficit continues to increase despite the constant coughing and spluttering from government officials. Overall the western world is screwed, Russia and China are growing, not just counting inflation as growth in currency/time comparisons. But rather real world tangible growth that continues to provide a backbone to their economies. You may have not read all of this, hopefully you took the time to and in the minor possibility that you take this on board i do hope that i have enlightened you on the economics of the world and ultimately the ridiculous western bluff that was played in the Crimea secession.
Star Wars Battlefront News! It is a little too early to be calling it a "bluff" davarish. To clarify...the US is not reliant upon Russian exports or trade...but the EU is...and this is a big reason why real sanctions haven't happened yet...just minor actions to punish a couple in Putins circle. We produce more natural resources than we can use, and are now the largest oil and natural gas producer in the world. When real sanctions occur it will devastate the economy. While Russia and China have a strategic partnership, China was anything but happy when Russia invaded Crimea. I think you overstimulate how much they are committed to this new aggressive posture on Russia's part. The Chinese are about making money...and regional conflicts like this are bad business...and will cause them to lose money not make it. They are also HEAVILY invested in the US economy...more so than we are in China. They are far more reliant on US purchasing Chinese goods than Russia purchasing Chinese goods. The global economy is what keeps China the superpower it is...and it's not going to throw that in the toilet to facilitate the recreation of Putin's Soviet Union. The US doesn't need to build pipelines...they have many massive natural gas fuel transport ships. No money needs to be spent because the ships already exist comrade! The Russians have never needed the capability to transport resources like natural gas outside their pipeline...but we have...which is why we have them. Come...drink some vodka with me.
Rolf Sonnemann and Klaus Krug from the University of Technology of Dresden mentioned in their 1987 book Technik und Technikwissenschaften in der Geschichte that the Coandă-1910 was the world's first jet. Harry Stine,a rocket scientist, author and "the father of American model rocketry",stated in his book that "there were several jet-propelled aircraft in existence at an early time-the Coandă-1910 jet and the 1938 Caproni-Campini Nr.1, the pure jet aircraft flight was made in Germany in 1938"
@7halos1 Yes. The F-22 has a M61A2 Vulcan six-barrel rotary 20 mm gun. That's the same basic type of gun used by Air Force fighters ever since the Vietnam era, but improved. Fires 110 rounds per second. The F-35 has a GAU-22/A four-barrel rotary 25 mm gun, fires only 50 rounds per second, but the rounds are heavier and harder hitting. This is a somewhat newer gun than the Vulcan. Considering the F-35's intended role, its gun might be designed more for ground strafing.
there is NO way the f-16 can beat the f-15 in a dogfight. NO way. the f-15 could have just climbed to 40,000ft in like half the time the f-16 could if it was ever in a bad spot. then it could swoop down unexpectedly for the kill. clearly this was due to pilot incompetence. shitty pilot + good plane = clusterfuck
+wb5704 , the F-16 does not loose speed in a high G turn like th F-15 , you have to remember that fly by wire far out weights conventional stick control and has a much higher rate of turn because the computer flys the plane with the help from the pilot , Pretty much equal plane and both legends
wb5704 , The aggressor squadron use F-16 for one reason and one reason only , its more agile and can outurn AND climb just as good as the f-15 and this is why they use them to train the f-15 pilots to be better , there is NO POINT in using a less agile fighter jet than that the USAF,Navy use because the pilots would not better them selves .. BESIDES the F-15 and 18 have one downfall it looses to much speed in a high G turn unlike the F-16 , Regards
(I'll admit though the F-15 is my absolute favorite plane along with the SR-71 :) but I really like the F-16 too. And just cause some one mentioned the Hornet, in a way, I think the Hornet probably deserves more props than either, even if the F-15 is my favorite. That plane has really shown a lot of versatility and stay-ability. The Navy/Marines just can't seem to get away from it cause it's been so useful to them).
+Bjørnar Magnussen to tell the truth I dont think there is one.... mig 15??? hehe hehe hehe I just know that close up there isnt much that the F16 cant hammer just because of their manuvering ability.. though the fast and long range F15's were sent in to take out all Iraqi planes not the F16's so the tech must be better on the F15's I suppose.. BUT the dog fight above shows F16 superiority if close OR in Israel with mountains :) maybe the USA made them for the Israel's :)
+Leslie Grayson Oh wait on I think they were Mig27 and 25 and 29.... I was reading heaps on the F16 hammering all those planes in the history section through out its life.. awesome looking plane out of date now though stealth is the new thing.. that and computers that watch bumble bees that dont fly like bee's at high altitude and at great speed :)
@JetMechMA I worked on the T-38 with J-85 engines! As I previously posted, an Air force F-4 Phantom II painted in the green and brown camouflage landed at our base! I saw it out on the flight line, and went out to look! I couldn't believe how huge this plane was! It had the big hook on it for Carriers! So I waited patiently for this thing to leave! The next day it took off! What a show! Used 1/2 runway and straight up in afterburner till out of sight! Totaly unique plane! My favorite! JJ!
Aggressor are in blue and desert camouflage. The F-15 and F-16 that are in blue camouflage represent Su-27 and Su-30. While the F-15 and F-16 in desert camo represent Mig-29. The Aggressor are flown by expert fighter pilots which are veterans.
Actually, all of you guys are wrong. An F-15 is the more valuable dog fighter. It's used for air superiority. That's why the U.S. has never sold any F-15's to any other country b/c it still has value.
You'll be down before you can even see the F-15 Eagle. Those things can hit a target at miles away. The F-16 is more agile than the F-15 but the chance of getting an F-15 in a classic dogfight is quite hard to do.
@7halos1 That's what fighter designers thought in the 1950s. "We have missiles now, guns are obsolete." Lots of fighters were designed to have missiles only. Then bitter experience in Vietnam proved that dogfighting at close range was often still necessary; in such fights, you were crippled without a decent gun. New fighters have always carried a gun ever since.
If you watched the whole operation red flag movie, you will know that the f-15 pilot was a rookie and the f-16 pilot was a veteran, and later the f-15 pilot shot down the f-16 pilot
@Hardmetal1993 not entirely the F-15C is typically the air superiority model where the F-15E is a strike aircraft, though both models can carry air to air and air to ground ordnance.
@OlderG0ds i'm talking about the editing that went into this vid making the dogfight looks more like a star wars sequence rather than the planes getting one each other tails and trying to take the other guy out, planes havent been bounced like that since WW2, its great for recruiting (who wouldnt be a fighter pilot!) but not a true reflection of the action.
I love when he moves the stick to the left and the cockpit is clearly dead. The MFD screens are off and the ADI doesnt move at all when it should be spinning. LOL The best part of this video in the IMAX is when the A-10 shoots the tanks. That was cool!
@MrAzzman31 I agree. The F-15 Eagle doesnt do dogfights. In the real world it uses its superior avionics to track and destroy enemies with long range missles. Hence why its called an air superiority fighter. You wont find a better airplane for the air to air role than an F-15
THE SCENARIO in which the Su-30 "always" beats the F-15 involves the Sukhoi taking a shot with a BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) and then "turning into the clutter notch of the F-15's radar," the Air Force official said. Getting into the clutter notch where the Doppler radar is ineffective involves making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30's relative forward speed close to zero.
Good Cinematography work. But bad continuity most of the time. Much of the internal CAM work doesn't match up with the external B-Roll shots. Its hard to say if this is simply sloppy assembly work by the director and editor, or if they are doing cheats because production didn't gather enough footage to satisfy the scenes. Hard to say, but, I have a feeling its both.
An also an advanced electro-optical sensor suite like Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, Electro-Optical Targeting System, & F-22 pilot wear F35 HMDS instead of JHMCS. The HMDS will help pilot see at night, foggy, morning, and finding targets a lot faster to lock on it with missiles.
@johnjayden1 also the F-16 is agile but it's a multi role plane, while the F-15 is a purpose-built air superiority fighter, it's heavier but it has double the power and more advanced avionics
The film makers of this IMAX film were limited by the camera ship used. You will notice that the F-16's and F-15's are flying at near stall speed with high AOA ( angle of attack ) for the pretty " ooo ahh " shots looking rearward and the side and front of the camera plane. In a real dogfight scenario, probably the only realistic shots you would get would be from a camera looking through the HUD ( heads up display ), or from camers placed around the cockpit, and there are a few of those shots.
@Vyppaaa11 Correction! The T-37 is officially the Tweety Bird or Tweet; however we called it the Gooney Bird because it was so ugly! The A-37 is the Dragonfly or Super Tweet!
This is a ridiculous statement. I'm an aircraft mechanic and have worked on both the F-16 and F-15. In BFM conditions the F-15 presents a larger radar target that's true. But if an when an F-16 closes (all things being equal in the realm of pilot skill and the panes loaded slick for Air to Air) The F-16 is far more nimble. The amount of surface area from flight controls in comparision to it's overall profile is greater than that of the F-15. That's not even talking about drag coefficients.
Red Flag- Nellis AFB range. I see the ACMI system graphics have been upgraded from stick figure aircrafts to true form aircraft images...Nice. Couldn't catch a glimps of the ACMI Pod on the wings, moving too fast.
The jet-engine and jet-plane were invented by the Romanian engineer Henri Coanda,30 years before Whittle Other Romanian inventors;Iustin Capra(jetpack),Anastase Dragomir(ejection-seat),Aurel Persu(first aerodinamic automobile),Gogu Constantinescu(automatic transmission shifter and the simultaneity device of shooting through the propeller blades),Ion Şt. Basgan(sonic drilling),Augustin Maior(multiple telephony),Petrache Poenaru(pen),Nicolae Paulescu(insulin),Lazar Edeleanu(amphetamine) and so on.
It's not a movie, it's a multi-national air combat (a-g too) massive training called Red Flag. So the footage comes from the USAF proper. The full documentary is on YT.
The guy that says "yeah" is in a F-15, he's just in formation with F-16's. look at the wings and its dual vertical stabilizer(rudder) that you can barely see.
@TheKneekap First, when we talk about military stuff on the internet, "SU-27" means the basic model. If you want to describe a specific variant, use its full name. Second, the basic SU-27 could perform Pugachev's Cobra without any vectoring thrust (In 1989 Paris). That's why the Flanker is so highly praised for its aerodynamic design.
@kacoll3 I used to work on F15s when I was in the Air Force, the missile youre trying to refer to is the Sparrow, the F14 is what carried the Phoenix and the Sparrow Missile only has a range of 20 miles I believe in its radius if Im not mistaken.
@AVIV222 How so? There are 195 F-22s in service. The F-35 was supposed to be cheap, but with so many development problems and delays, it now costs almost as much as the F-22.
F 15 never beaten in dogfight in its operational history until F22 came along. F 15 is designated interception and air superiority, F 16 is multi role. (Obviously there are F 15's with multi role but they were designed for this air to air type mission, the F 16 as a multi role and to export, like the F 22 vs F35)
Study how a P-40 Warhawk can take a Mitsubishi Zero, and you will understand how an F-15 can take an F-16 in a "traditional dogfight". Climb, dive, killed.
The F16 is way better on close range or dogfights.But the F15 is a lot faster and could easily defeat F16 on medium or long range.The F15 has more Flares/Chaffs and can be equipped with more rockets.I would take the F16 in a Gun/Sidewinder fight but I would take the F15 in a medium/long range AIM-120 AMRAAM fight.
The large number of F-15 kills during Desert Storm is also due to the Air Tasking Orders assigning F-15 units with nearly all of the overland CAP stations. Air to air was not the priority for F-16s during that war. The Navy planes were usually tied to strike packages when over land, with F/A-18s performing strike missions, and F-14s performing escort and tied to the strike packages. If any of our fighter types were vectored towards Iraqi aircraft the outcome would have been the same.
@JetMechMA Hey dude, I'm not sure where you live, but if you would like to see the opening ceremony of that Nascar race; the race will be replayed Wednesday 9/15/10 at 12:00 PM Eastern standard time, on the Speed Channel! The whole thing is so cool with the F-22 flyby at the end! I hope they don't edit it! I'm going to tape the beginning! Just wanted to let you know! Not that spectacular, but 1st time I've seen the Raptors! JJ!
@RepaleoN The flare is to provide a short-term target for any heat seeking missile threats from behind. Thus, at any point, the AIM-9 will be targeting the hottest point. Well, if the second hottest point just diverged, leaving behind a hotter point right in front, the missile will go for the flare. So they did use missile defeat tactics.
Yea agreed the guys flying F-16 are some of the best pilots. I know F-15C is an air superiority but it doesn't mean it's better at dogfighting than F-16, I'd say F-16 is more agile of a dogfighter
@kacoll3 You know what you might be right but I dont remember unloading Phoenix missiles, I was a Aircraft Armament Systems Specialist meaning that I loaded and unloaded ammunition onto the aircraft, The missiles I remember are the Sidewinder, AMRAAM and Sparrow...
Also, the outside shots were definitely not shot during a red flag mission. I have watched the HD version and can not find a single ACMI pod on any of the jets.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that... It really looked way more of an F-15 cockpit to me (though it does look like his friends accompanying him are F-16s).
If you watch the full documentary they tell you that the pilot of the f-16 is an INSTRUCTOR and the pilot of the f-15 is a rookie participant of red flag....
@kvmairforce Nay, it had been "shot down" during a red-flag exercise in the late 1980s by the RAF. The RAF pilot was flying a English Electric Lightning, a jet from the 1950s.
Alot of this was shot in Mountain home AFB Idaho training airspace. The lake on the right at 1:21 is the Bybee Reservoir at 42°15'27.66"N 116°15'40.38"W the view is looking to the south. The water far in the distance in the upper right is the Mountain View Lake at 42° 2'40.23"N 116° 9'32.81"W
Yeah, IFF tech makes BVR fights possible. You can also do this tactically by establishing "safe" corridors for friendly aircraft to fly in. But as Raykahn says, even modern airbattles might close to guns, as the Isreali have proven. They had a guns kill in an F-15.
If you guys think F-15's are the shit, clearly you've never been around experimental planes before on an AF base. The difference between F-15's/16's and the stuff we have in development, it's like bringing a stick to a stick to a nuke fight. It's a surreal and amazing experience to know that planes like these are a thing of the past already.
dogfighters are lighter, and more manueverable which gives them advantage at ranges short enough to engage with guns. Air superiority have higher speeds, longer range, more payload, more advanced countermeasures and weapon systems. An air superiority fighter could launch multiple missiles targetting the dogfighters long before the dogfighters even see the air superiority fighter.
@BeigeFunk I can't say whether they shoot off flares in Red Flag, but this is an IMAX movie and shooting them off looks cool so I'm guessing that's why.
Actually what we call a knife fight (usally some kind of scissors manuever) the F-15 has a distinct advantage most of the time because it has no angle of attack restrictions
Pilot skill, is a big factor especially since they are fighting up against the aggressors; who are a handpicked group of pilots. However, the F16 is a multi-role fighter, where the F15 was designed as a dedicated air to air fighter.
@macodenz MiG-21-93 upgrade. MiG-21-93 re-engined with the Klimov RD-33 engine. The Russians have claimed that the evaluation at Ramenskoye Airport had shown that this version has beaten simulated F-16 in a mock dogfight with a score of 4:1
People seem to forget this is a training scenario. There are certain rules added to create scenarios that are unlikely in real life, but that pilots must nevertheless be prepared and trained for. The F-16s here were allowed to close to dogfighting distance before the F-15s took evasive maneuvers. Additionally, the F-16s are Aggressors (the instructors/mock adversaries in training missions), meaning they have some of the best pilots who live for these sorts of things. This scenario is important for the F-15 pilots. They had the advantage over craft like F-16s in every scenario EXCEPT this one, which is the whole point. They are training to learn how to deal with their one weakness. If this were a more standard fight and the fighters had space and time before engaging at dogfighting distances, the F-15 would the advantage. Thus it would be F-16 pilots training against F-15 Aggressiors at BVR.
Don't F-16s have new radar like in F-35 ???
I think they could catch F-15s nowadays much earlier.
This doesn’t look a training scenario to me. None of the maneuvers, reactions, or even radio chatter are how these things are trained or practiced. My money is this being scripted and filmed entirely as an advertisement.
"recorded by an IMAX High Def. cam." Uploaded in 240p...
2007 though :P
Haha good point, I'm surprised no one has given me any flak over that little oversight :P
hah
I imagine in the future a similar video will be uploaded at 4k but people will complain that it's "only 1080p 60fps :/"
IcespherePlaysGames
nah. noticing jaggies is not the same as 240p blockiness and loss of fidelity :P
Do not forget that the F-16 has an overall air-to-air record of 76-1 and it was the first aircraft designed to do 9 G turns so in a close in dogfight it can more then handle its own.
The F-15 has 104 kills to no losses as of February 2008
@@tzeffsmainchannel We all know. What the guy was implying is that, while the F-15s record is certainly impressive, the F-16s record is certainly nothing to frown at
"sniper 1 they're giving me a good fight"
*slowly turn to the left, release single flair. LMAO
I'm friends with an ex-airguard pilot. He used to fly F-16's but now he's flying our resident L-19 at our glider club. Based on his accounts, the F-16 is a better dogfighter, but the 15 is the better all around aircraft because it can double as a great ground attack fighter.
Correct. The F16 is definitely better for air combat. It’s much more maneuverable and substantially smaller than the F15. The F15 is a much better long range, beyond visual LOS, and all around aircraft
@nathan1sixteen it certainly is not much more maneuverable. Especially compared to the new EX and QA.
This is such a realistic portrayal of a BFM environment. The best way to avoid a guns kill is to barrell roll to the right while your defensive, there are so many benefits, you lose airspeed, your mass stays right in front of the guy trying to kill you. Its also really smart to pop flares in a guns fight, it looks awesome. And the last thing you need is height, its important to stay as close to the ground as possible. The slower you are the cooler everything looks.
Hey F15, don't dogfight. Hit the afterburners. Get several miles away.. Turn around and shoot them in the face, head on!
My favorite plane is the F-16, but The F-15 has the greatest battle record of any plane in history.
In reply to a couple of questions, the F-15 does have rear-view mirrors mounted on the arch of the front section of the canopy. The F-16 has nowhere for mirrors to be mounted.
Was "interesting" that when the F-15 pilot called "break left" and was seen to throw the stick to the left, the aircraft rolled to the right. Also, in the final scenes with the gun kill it was clearly the F-16 doing the shooting and yet the 16 has a side-stick whereas the trigger was pulled on the centre-mounted joystick.
You have to remember that the F-16 is a multirole jet, unlike the F-15 which is a air superiority fighter.
F-15 Variants are able to be multi-role fighters.
Looks like an F-16 marketing commercial. Nothing like a real dog fight. The F-15 fighter pilots would never be in a dog fight like that with F-16s. Ask any F-15 pilot and he will tell you the strengths of the F-15 were never shown in this video. The F-15 can easily out climb the F-16. F-16 with its tiny wings has far higher wing loading. The engine is too small to overcome the aero drag at the speeds at which the F-15 is capable of climbing. It will have to turn the nose far earlier than the F-15 and the F-15 easily could turn around and get behind the F-16.
But F-16 could shoot him during climb.
Lmao I know someone who worked in the USAF with F-16s and they will tell you there is no better thrust to weight ratio than the F-16s F-15 would not simply out climb it
The f15 can out run, out climb, carry more weapons, and with the right pilot out maneuver
@@benjaminmenken5693 True.
@@xx_mysticwolf_xx1492 Not true at all. F-15 has a higher thrust to weight ratio. It would simply out climb it.
Well, this was done for the cinematography. I used to fly them. The formations you see here are only 100-200 feet apart. They actually are more like 1.5 miles line abreast when in tactical formation. F-15 has way better long range capability. From 25K feet and above, F-15 has more capability. 13-25K the F-16 has turn advantage from 300-500 knots airspeed. F-15 always has slow speed advantage since it has no AOA restrictions from a computer. Below 10K altitude planes are equal until slow
Yup the 16 is made to be a close up turning fighter. The 15 like u said is better in every other way, but is it almost twice as good? It costs twice as much, as twice the power plants, and twice the weight. Not twice the amount of highly trained pilots tho. 15 has a big advantage in top altitude and climbing, both those are important when it comes to energy.
The F-15 in all air forces has an air-to-air combined record of 104 kills to 0 losses in air combat as of February 2008. To date, no air superiority versions of the F-15 (A/B/C/D models) have ever been shot down by enemy forces.
Tell that to Chris Roberts and his fantasy clowns in the “Strike Commander” pc game; there the F-16 clubs F-15s like baby seals…..
@raymondyee2008 As a person who works on the weapons systems of F-15s, it's better
they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. f-15s superior radar gives better BVR capabilities and it has a better thrust to weight ratio so better vertical performance. f-16 has a better turning rate, roll speed, and turning radius plus a smaller profile. f-15 wins BVR, but the f-16 is specifically designed for dogfighting and has better BFM capabilities so will win a turning fight.
The best we have for dogfight maneuverability is the F-22, but we can't match the Sukhoi jets.
This video + Megaman 7 Ending Theme = Pure Awesomeness. Would also make a great credits screen for a movie, or a video game! :D
The F-15 has never been shot down, even in dogfights, and is arguably better in some aspects. I still have to believe that this is a video made to advertise how "new and improved" the F-16 is. I still have to say that the F-15 is a better plane in dogfighting. Although the F-16 may be able to carry more weapons, does that really matter if the target is reliable and fast?
lol f 16 is single engine aeridinamyc fighter and is the best for dogfights and medium range missions while f 15 is big twin engine for longer missions, in dogfights f 16 can destroy f 15 everytime everywhere
The F-15 would have been in a patrol, and even on its own it is equipped with very good radar, and would have detected the F-16(haha almost typed 26) but the F-16 is used more commonly in the USAF. Probably the law of large numbers caused the shootdowns. Anyways, what kind of pilot was piloting this F-15? Dogfighting up close is easier if you can turn around fast, and when they are catching up shoot a missile. OH, also, copying your last comment seems lazy(look down, hmm?)
And for your entertainment, the basics of dogfighting: 1. Keep behind your enemy. 2. If your opponent charges on you, do not try and retreat, rather fly to meet them. 3. Do not fire until your enemy is in your complete sight.
(lol sorry for three comments) one last note, look at the first comment. "In some aspects" and "better plane in dogfighting" And I say this because although the F-16 is lighter, more manueverable and built for dogfights, the F-15 can use its speed to the advantage. They can just do their little "rocket away" thing, as stated in one comment below. I know that there are advantages to the F-16 and it might be better in this kind of dogfight, but it all depends on the pilot. Anyways, I will stop here and say what a pleasure it's been to argue with you two, good day. And I'm doing this to make sure that the piece of trash here doesn't post another comment
ask any fighter pilot which ride they'd want in A-A engagement. I would find it hard to believe anyone would pick the f16 lawn dart.
That f-16 dropped in like "sup bro"
@Chad show, if you look at it's vertical stabs, you can tell it's in the F-16 because it only had one in the centerline.
EDIT: Umm never mind, I see, in the fighting sequence, it was center mounted...
The Hornet is obviously a very amazing machine for the fact it is replacing a lot of marines/navy's aircraft. Goes to show how versatile it is and they obviously love it when they keep having them make new versions of it to replace other aircraft. It started out as an underdog and the loser to the F-16 in contract but you really gotta give it respect.
珍しい映像。F-15 vs F-16 Dog fight !!!
The F-16 is more manueverable and has slightly better cockpit visibility, but the F-15 is a superior aircraft all-around. It can match any Russian fighter out there and with the technological and C2 advantage, edge them out across the board. If the Russians had the money we had they would be able to match us, but they just can't keep up. Their current Mig and Su series fighters and fighter/bombers are great 4th generation fighters...but nothing on the level of an F-22. On a side note, if the F-35 tried to conduct any of these moves it would fall apart in the sky.
If the Russians had the 16 trillion dollars of debt you mean? Which actually is 17 trillion now, growing by more than 2.5billion per day? , Long run, your country is fucked.
Star Wars Battlefront News! Fucked...if QE stops anytime soon by the fed. To be fair however the Russians have their own set of problems now. Their currency and the economy along with it is about to be decimated by global sanctions. It's a dangerous bet by Putin when he took Crimea. It might be a critical port for trade and the Russian Navy, but Russia will also pay severely in the long run. Taking on the EU and the US? I think he's overestimated his hand. If the US starts supplying the EU with natural gas (we have so much we just burn it off now), it takes all the leverage away from Putin to blackmail the EU. Russia is in a far worse position now than the US.
The US cannot even hope to supply us with Natural Gas, the pipeline alone would cost hundreds of billions, Money which the US simply doesn't have. It would be out of capacity the moment it started. Put simply, the EU is in Russia's Back pocket, he doesn't want to fight us , better rather to make money from a growing cash cow which deliberates rather than taking action.
Also, the "Sanctions" have done fuck all. The sanctions simply comprised seizing a little over $3 million in assets that were outside of Crimea/Russia. Not a real big deal when you get down to it, Also the "Trade Sanctions" will only strengthen Chinese/Russian ties, which is a goddamn disaster for the US. due to their heavy investment in China, Obviously to try and better the relationship in the future.
The "Trade Sanctions" have not even been mentioned since Crimea joined with Russia, simply because it was a bluff. The US and EU cannot afford to lose Russia's trade and exports. Russia's economy can tank it whilst we already being on the edge probably cannot.
Also "Russia is in a far worse position now than the US" , Hardly, he has gained land practically for free, land with more natural resources and secured a vital power projection platform in the Mediterranean. All without much protest at all, America coughed and spluttered whilst the EU decidedly called "Neutral" , obviously except Germany. (The Blood Feud between those two countries is astonishingly resilient.
Overall America is playing the Brave face whilst its economy further declines, Since Putin's first premiership he has sextupled Russia's GDP. Their "Real Income" , Not America's "Predicted"/"Estimated" or bullshit excuse to hide the real numbers has been increased by a factor of 2.5. and their average civilian wage has been tripled. I would say Russia is doing just fine at the moment, Meanwhile in America the wages have decreased on average by 15% , Real Income (The income that Government Media doesn't like to mention has actually decreased by a factor of 0.124 of its original value) And the Deficit continues to increase despite the constant coughing and spluttering from government officials.
Overall the western world is screwed, Russia and China are growing, not just counting inflation as growth in currency/time comparisons. But rather real world tangible growth that continues to provide a backbone to their economies.
You may have not read all of this, hopefully you took the time to and in the minor possibility that you take this on board i do hope that i have enlightened you on the economics of the world and ultimately the ridiculous western bluff that was played in the Crimea secession.
Star Wars Battlefront News! It is a little too early to be calling it a "bluff" davarish. To clarify...the US is not reliant upon Russian exports or trade...but the EU is...and this is a big reason why real sanctions haven't happened yet...just minor actions to punish a couple in Putins circle. We produce more natural resources than we can use, and are now the largest oil and natural gas producer in the world. When real sanctions occur it will devastate the economy. While Russia and China have a strategic partnership, China was anything but happy when Russia invaded Crimea. I think you overstimulate how much they are committed to this new aggressive posture on Russia's part. The Chinese are about making money...and regional conflicts like this are bad business...and will cause them to lose money not make it. They are also HEAVILY invested in the US economy...more so than we are in China. They are far more reliant on US purchasing Chinese goods than Russia purchasing Chinese goods. The global economy is what keeps China the superpower it is...and it's not going to throw that in the toilet to facilitate the recreation of Putin's Soviet Union. The US doesn't need to build pipelines...they have many massive natural gas fuel transport ships. No money needs to be spent because the ships already exist comrade! The Russians have never needed the capability to transport resources like natural gas outside their pipeline...but we have...which is why we have them. Come...drink some vodka with me.
so can the f16 match what ever weapons the f15 has but cheaper.
Rolf Sonnemann and Klaus Krug from the University of Technology of Dresden mentioned in their 1987 book Technik und Technikwissenschaften in der Geschichte that the Coandă-1910 was the world's first jet. Harry Stine,a rocket scientist, author and "the father of American model rocketry",stated in his book that "there were several jet-propelled aircraft in existence at an early time-the Coandă-1910 jet and the 1938 Caproni-Campini Nr.1, the pure jet aircraft flight was made in Germany in 1938"
@7halos1 Yes. The F-22 has a M61A2 Vulcan six-barrel rotary 20 mm gun. That's the same basic type of gun used by Air Force fighters ever since the Vietnam era, but improved. Fires 110 rounds per second. The F-35 has a GAU-22/A four-barrel rotary 25 mm gun, fires only 50 rounds per second, but the rounds are heavier and harder hitting. This is a somewhat newer gun than the Vulcan. Considering the F-35's intended role, its gun might be designed more for ground strafing.
This is fake...
there is NO way the f-16 can beat the f-15 in a dogfight. NO way. the f-15 could have just climbed to 40,000ft in like half the time the f-16 could if it was ever in a bad spot. then it could swoop down unexpectedly for the kill. clearly this was due to pilot incompetence. shitty pilot + good plane = clusterfuck
wb5704 . Not. The rate of climb is the same the F-15 does has a 15k ft higher ceiling but its not going to just run away from a F-16.
+wb5704 , the F-16 does not loose speed in a high G turn like th F-15 , you have to remember that fly by wire far out weights conventional stick control and has a much higher rate of turn because the computer flys the plane with the help from the pilot , Pretty much equal plane and both legends
Which is stronger new
F-15c or Su35s ?
+Erik Ryde Isee…
I think American F-15c is the second strongest in the world.
wb5704 , The aggressor squadron use F-16 for one reason and one reason only , its more agile and can outurn AND climb just as good as the f-15 and this is why they use them to train the f-15 pilots to be better , there is NO POINT in using a less agile fighter jet than that the USAF,Navy use because the pilots would not better them selves .. BESIDES the F-15 and 18 have one downfall it looses to much speed in a high G turn unlike the F-16 , Regards
I couldn't stop laughing when that one pilot takes take off his mask and says "yeah" with a fist pump.
(I'll admit though the F-15 is my absolute favorite plane along with the SR-71 :) but I really like the F-16 too. And just cause some one mentioned the Hornet, in a way, I think the Hornet probably deserves more props than either, even if the F-15 is my favorite. That plane has really shown a lot of versatility and stay-ability. The Navy/Marines just can't seem to get away from it cause it's been so useful to them).
Israeli F16C's shot down 44 Syrian "Russian made" MIG aircraft... If the Israeli's have them they are the best.
+Leslie Grayson Do you know what MIG variant?
+Bjørnar Magnussen to tell the truth I dont think there is one.... mig 15??? hehe hehe hehe I just know that close up there isnt much that the F16 cant hammer just because of their manuvering ability.. though the fast and long range F15's were sent in to take out all Iraqi planes not the F16's so the tech must be better on the F15's I suppose.. BUT the dog fight above shows F16 superiority if close OR in Israel with mountains :) maybe the USA made them for the Israel's :)
+Leslie Grayson Oh wait on I think they were Mig27 and 25 and 29.... I was reading heaps on the F16 hammering all those planes in the history section through out its life.. awesome looking plane out of date now though stealth is the new thing.. that and computers that watch bumble bees that dont fly like bee's at high altitude and at great speed :)
+Leslie Grayson F-16s better than Mig series that's why Sukhoi born.
Voyage-in- Time Wasn't the Sukhoi series a response to the F-15 though?
@JetMechMA I worked on the T-38 with J-85 engines! As I previously posted, an Air force F-4 Phantom II painted in the green and brown camouflage landed at our base! I saw it out on the flight line, and went out to look! I couldn't believe how huge this plane was! It had the big hook on it for Carriers! So I waited patiently for this thing to leave! The next day it took off! What a show! Used 1/2 runway and straight up in afterburner till out of sight! Totaly unique plane! My favorite! JJ!
Aggressor are in blue and desert camouflage. The F-15 and F-16 that are in blue camouflage represent Su-27 and Su-30. While the F-15 and F-16 in desert camo represent Mig-29. The Aggressor are flown by expert fighter pilots which are veterans.
Actually, all of you guys are wrong. An F-15 is the more valuable dog fighter. It's used for air superiority. That's why the U.S. has never sold any F-15's to any other country b/c it still has value.
You'll be down before you can even see the F-15 Eagle. Those things can hit a target at miles away. The F-16 is more agile than the F-15 but the chance of getting an F-15 in a classic dogfight is quite hard to do.
@7halos1 That's what fighter designers thought in the 1950s. "We have missiles now, guns are obsolete." Lots of fighters were designed to have missiles only. Then bitter experience in Vietnam proved that dogfighting at close range was often still necessary; in such fights, you were crippled without a decent gun. New fighters have always carried a gun ever since.
If you watched the whole operation red flag movie, you will know that the f-15 pilot was a rookie and the f-16 pilot was a veteran, and later the f-15 pilot shot down the f-16 pilot
@Hardmetal1993 not entirely the F-15C is typically the air superiority model where the F-15E is a strike aircraft, though both models can carry air to air and air to ground ordnance.
I love the flares they make it look much cooler and they serve a great purpose of shaking missiles
@OlderG0ds i'm talking about the editing that went into this vid making the dogfight looks more like a star wars sequence rather than the planes getting one each other tails and trying to take the other guy out, planes havent been bounced like that since WW2, its great for recruiting (who wouldnt be a fighter pilot!) but not a true reflection of the action.
I love when he moves the stick to the left and the cockpit is clearly dead. The MFD screens are off and the ADI doesnt move at all when it should be spinning. LOL The best part of this video in the IMAX is when the A-10 shoots the tanks. That was cool!
I saw this at an IMAX theater. It's just a bit Hollywood, but the aerial scenes are spectacular.
@MrAzzman31
I agree.
The F-15 Eagle doesnt do dogfights.
In the real world it uses its superior avionics to track and destroy enemies with long range missles.
Hence why its called an air superiority fighter.
You wont find a better airplane for the air to air role than an F-15
THE SCENARIO in which the Su-30 "always" beats the F-15 involves the Sukhoi taking a shot with a BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) and then "turning into the clutter notch of the F-15's radar," the Air Force official said. Getting into the clutter notch where the Doppler radar is ineffective involves making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30's relative forward speed close to zero.
The F-15 was designed primarily for air-to-air combat. The F-16 is more of a tactical fighter-bomber; not as well suited for air-to-air.
Good Cinematography work. But bad continuity most of the time. Much of the internal CAM work doesn't match up with the external B-Roll shots. Its hard to say if this is simply sloppy assembly work by the director and editor, or if they are doing cheats because production didn't gather enough footage to satisfy the scenes. Hard to say, but, I have a feeling its both.
An also an advanced electro-optical sensor suite like Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, Electro-Optical Targeting System, & F-22 pilot wear F35 HMDS instead of JHMCS. The HMDS will help pilot see at night, foggy, morning, and finding targets a lot faster to lock on it with missiles.
People who keep saying the f16 is more maneuverable have clearly never seen these 2 jets fly in person.
@johnjayden1
also the F-16 is agile but it's a multi role plane, while the F-15 is a purpose-built air superiority fighter, it's heavier but it has double the power and more advanced avionics
I love all the dramatic dialog they insert into this thing for the sake of entertainment. The F14 v MiG23 video has real audio.
The film makers of this IMAX film were limited by the camera ship used. You will notice that the F-16's and F-15's are flying at near stall speed with high AOA ( angle of attack ) for the pretty " ooo ahh " shots looking rearward and the side and front of the camera plane. In a real dogfight scenario, probably the only realistic shots you would get would be from a camera looking through the HUD ( heads up display ), or from camers placed around the cockpit, and there are a few of those shots.
@Vyppaaa11 Correction! The T-37 is officially the Tweety Bird or Tweet; however we called it the Gooney Bird because it was so ugly! The A-37 is the Dragonfly or Super Tweet!
This is a ridiculous statement. I'm an aircraft mechanic and have worked on both the F-16 and F-15. In BFM conditions the F-15 presents a larger radar target that's true. But if an when an F-16 closes (all things being equal in the realm of pilot skill and the panes loaded slick for Air to Air) The F-16 is far more nimble. The amount of surface area from flight controls in comparision to it's overall profile is greater than that of the F-15. That's not even talking about drag coefficients.
It looks all cool from the comfort of the couch, but what they're not showing you is how much it HURTS to make a high g-force maneuver.
@ Miguelchalupa:
Please note: "designed" is in the comment, it was later adapted for ground strike with the F15E Strike Eagle.
Remember, the F16 is an aircraft made to be cheap, easily available, and for exporting. The F15 is made entirely to serve a purpose.
Red Flag- Nellis AFB range. I see the ACMI system graphics have been upgraded from stick figure aircrafts to true form aircraft images...Nice. Couldn't catch a glimps of the ACMI Pod on the wings, moving too fast.
The jet-engine and jet-plane were invented by the Romanian engineer Henri Coanda,30 years before Whittle
Other Romanian inventors;Iustin Capra(jetpack),Anastase Dragomir(ejection-seat),Aurel Persu(first aerodinamic automobile),Gogu Constantinescu(automatic transmission shifter and the simultaneity device of shooting through the propeller blades),Ion Şt. Basgan(sonic drilling),Augustin Maior(multiple telephony),Petrache Poenaru(pen),Nicolae Paulescu(insulin),Lazar Edeleanu(amphetamine) and so on.
It's not a movie, it's a multi-national air combat (a-g too) massive training called Red Flag. So the footage comes from the USAF proper. The full documentary is on YT.
The guy that says "yeah" is in a F-15, he's just in formation with F-16's. look at the wings and its dual vertical stabilizer(rudder) that you can barely see.
@TheKneekap First, when we talk about military stuff on the internet, "SU-27" means the basic model. If you want to describe a specific variant, use its full name. Second, the basic SU-27 could perform Pugachev's Cobra without any vectoring thrust (In 1989 Paris). That's why the Flanker is so highly praised for its aerodynamic design.
Wikipedia says that F-16 and F-15 are the best 4th generation jet fighters because they have the most kills
This isn't Top Gun to anyone wondering. This is Red Flag, the Air Force's air combat school.
They figured the audience wouldn't know but you're right.
There really is nothing more epic than a dog fight
@kacoll3 I used to work on F15s when I was in the Air Force, the missile youre trying to refer to is the Sparrow, the F14 is what carried the Phoenix and the Sparrow Missile only has a range of 20 miles I believe in its radius if Im not mistaken.
@AVIV222 How so? There are 195 F-22s in service. The F-35 was supposed to be cheap, but with so many development problems and delays, it now costs almost as much as the F-22.
Nice video. I have to think these planes would not be this close together in a real dog fight....
these are flare countermeasures. They make sure enemy missiles don't hit the jets.
F 15 never beaten in dogfight in its operational history until F22 came along. F 15 is designated interception and air superiority, F 16 is multi role. (Obviously there are F 15's with multi role but they were designed for this air to air type mission, the F 16 as a multi role and to export, like the F 22 vs F35)
>"recorded by an IMAX High Def. cam."
>360p
...
Maneuver does not depend on the worker only technological but also depends on the human factor
Study how a P-40 Warhawk can take a Mitsubishi Zero, and you will understand how an F-15 can take an F-16 in a "traditional dogfight". Climb, dive, killed.
Are his aileron servos in reverse? At 1:30 he banked the stick to break left but the plane rolled right? Thumbs up!
The F16 is way better on close range or dogfights.But the F15 is a lot faster and could easily defeat F16 on medium or long range.The F15 has more Flares/Chaffs and can be equipped with more rockets.I would take the F16 in a Gun/Sidewinder fight but I would take the F15 in a medium/long range AIM-120 AMRAAM fight.
Yes, it actually looks like it was filmed in Utah. A hub for F16's. It is also where the Thunderbirds hold their tryouts
The large number of F-15 kills during Desert Storm is also due to the Air Tasking Orders assigning F-15 units with nearly all of the overland CAP stations. Air to air was not the priority for F-16s during that war. The Navy planes were usually tied to strike packages when over land, with F/A-18s performing strike missions, and F-14s performing escort and tied to the strike packages. If any of our fighter types were vectored towards Iraqi aircraft the outcome would have been the same.
@JetMechMA Hey dude, I'm not sure where you live, but if you would like to see the opening ceremony of that Nascar race; the race will be replayed Wednesday 9/15/10 at 12:00 PM Eastern standard time, on the Speed Channel! The whole thing is so cool with the F-22 flyby at the end! I hope they don't edit it! I'm going to tape the beginning! Just wanted to let you know! Not that spectacular, but 1st time I've seen the Raptors! JJ!
Can someone please explain me what they're dropping? Is it chaff or flares, and why're they doing that? :S
Thank you!
@RepaleoN The flare is to provide a short-term target for any heat seeking missile threats from behind. Thus, at any point, the AIM-9 will be targeting the hottest point. Well, if the second hottest point just diverged, leaving behind a hotter point right in front, the missile will go for the flare. So they did use missile defeat tactics.
Yea agreed the guys flying F-16 are some of the best pilots.
I know F-15C is an air superiority but it doesn't mean it's better at dogfighting than F-16, I'd say F-16 is more agile of a dogfighter
Thumbs up if you had "Take my breath away" playing at the same time as watching this!!
@kacoll3 You know what you might be right but I dont remember unloading Phoenix missiles, I was a Aircraft Armament Systems Specialist meaning that I loaded and unloaded ammunition onto the aircraft, The missiles I remember are the Sidewinder, AMRAAM and Sparrow...
both aircrafts are amazing.they contain an excellent record
Also, the outside shots were definitely not shot during a red flag mission. I have watched the HD version and can not find a single ACMI pod on any of the jets.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that... It really looked way more of an F-15 cockpit to me (though it does look like his friends accompanying him are F-16s).
-F-18C/D Hornet & F-16E/F Super Hornet Block 2 (USA, Canada, Spain, & Australia)
-Eurofighter Typhoon (UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria, & Saudi Arabia)
-Dassault Rafale (France)
-JAS 39 Gripen (Sweden)
-Su-30MKI Flanker H (India)
-Mig-29A Fulcrum (Germany & USA)-Practice aircraft user.
-Mirage 2000 (France, Greece, & Brazil)
If you watch the full documentary they tell you that the pilot of the f-16 is an INSTRUCTOR and the pilot of the f-15 is a rookie participant of red flag....
I know this, I was commenting on SilentBob151's comment. He claimed this dogfight unrealistic because of what he has seen in movies.
@kvmairforce Nay, it had been "shot down" during a red-flag exercise in the late 1980s by the RAF. The RAF pilot was flying a English Electric Lightning, a jet from the 1950s.
Alot of this was shot in Mountain home AFB Idaho training airspace.
The lake on the right at 1:21 is the Bybee Reservoir at 42°15'27.66"N 116°15'40.38"W
the view is looking to the south. The water far in the distance in the upper right is the Mountain View Lake at 42° 2'40.23"N 116° 9'32.81"W
Yeah, IFF tech makes BVR fights possible. You can also do this tactically by establishing "safe" corridors for friendly aircraft to fly in. But as Raykahn says, even modern airbattles might close to guns, as the Isreali have proven. They had a guns kill in an F-15.
If you guys think F-15's are the shit, clearly you've never been around experimental planes before on an AF base. The difference between F-15's/16's and the stuff we have in development, it's like bringing a stick to a stick to a nuke fight. It's a surreal and amazing experience to know that planes like these are a thing of the past already.
dogfighters are lighter, and more manueverable which gives them advantage at ranges short enough to engage with guns.
Air superiority have higher speeds, longer range, more payload, more advanced countermeasures and weapon systems.
An air superiority fighter could launch multiple missiles targetting the dogfighters long before the dogfighters even see the air superiority fighter.
F-16 was designed as a swift interceptor but F-15 is for Air Superiority Domination.
I have a question, in a real dog fight where life is on the line, do they always pop flares sporadically like that, or is it just for show?
F-15's avionics and enormous radar (inspired by the Russian MiG-25 Foxbat) were designed for BVR (Beyond Visual Range) kills, not for dogfighting.
@BeigeFunk I can't say whether they shoot off flares in Red Flag, but this is an IMAX movie and shooting them off looks cool so I'm guessing that's why.
Actually what we call a knife fight (usally some kind of scissors manuever) the F-15 has a distinct advantage most of the time because it has no angle of attack restrictions
Pilot skill, is a big factor especially since they are fighting up against the aggressors; who are a handpicked group of pilots. However, the F16 is a multi-role fighter, where the F15 was designed as a dedicated air to air fighter.
@macodenz MiG-21-93 upgrade. MiG-21-93 re-engined with the Klimov RD-33 engine. The Russians have claimed that the evaluation at Ramenskoye Airport had shown that this version has beaten simulated F-16 in a mock dogfight with a score of 4:1
Why are they showing acrobatic maneuvers that have nothing to do with dogfighting?