Bondtech LGX Extruder - New hotness or more of the same?
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2021
- Initial impressions and overview of the bondtech LGX extruder in my voron v2.4 after about a week of use.
The beta version of the LGX mount for the afterburner toolhead is pinned in the voronuser_mods section of the voron discord, when it gets posted to the github i will link it here
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A lot of things I was wishing for in an extruder setup are coming to life here! (the stepped adjustment, the big diameter gears, the exposed part of the gears etc) Loving it!
Just received mine this morning. Thanks for your great review.
I just got mine this morning too! Thanks Nero.
I like how you roasted the Ender extruder like five times in this review.
it deserves it
As someone who had to keep disassembling the extruder to change filaments cause of that damn extruder, it deserves it
I have the same MK8 style extruder in my Anet.
It deserves it.
I’m disappointed it was only 5 times 😁
Ender 3's are shit theyre only popular for the price but there is a lot of design problems especially the single rail for the bed thats a bad setup in my opinion you need 2 rails
Great video as always
I like your honest feedback on this subject.
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍😊
Great overview. Very informative without wasting time. Thank you.
This extruder looks great!
That TPU wheel is dope!
Thank You !!!!! You are Great !!!!
Ordered it!!!!!!
HAVE IT!
Thank you for taking this apart to show us what is inside. my initial opinions in bondtech (from years ago) is probably the same i dont like them using long hot ends you can lose a lot of height in that. i see what they are trying to do with the surface area however a bmg style i prefer this. ok you have to set the tension yourself which could be a pain for some people but i like it. the dual gear setup has a lot of bite and there is a very small gap between the gear anf the ^ part where the filament goes down into the extruder.
my extruder is a bmg style but its like a hymera without the weird shaped heatsink i dont need the V6 or similar hotend which i am so grateful for i just have my heater block and throat below and because its all metal billet aluminium it can dissipate the heat nice no need for a large hot end.
it is nice to have the ratchet i guess but it would be nicer if the teeth were a lot finer i can see there could be issues with that but having the bigger tooth wheels its probably not a problem. its nice that you can clean the wheels without taking it apart but if you got a bmg style setup correctly it should stay clean in there.
Love the video! The new lav mic is a bit soft FYI
@Nero 3dp The levels are certainly a tad low in places. So please looking into normalizing your audio levels in post. It's easy in most editing apps these days.
Informative as always! :+1:
I bit the bullet and got a LGX FF and will be returning my H2 wich i don't like at all loading fillament is a pain it only does TPU pretty good it just grinds away my pla and i was even thinking about Just undoing everything and going back to bowden. But because of the possitive reviews of the LGX i got one today. Can't wait to try it out
Awesome review! Any news on when you will review the dragonfly high flow?
I'd love to see a comparison between this and an M4. It seems like it would be a great comparison between built vs bought
i look forward to seeing future revisions of the clockwork/pocketwatch that are rehoused LGX gears :P
Not sure if thats even worth doing, the clockwork is repackaged BMG to fit the formfactor, the LGX does that as is.
I'd like to see those same gears in a lighter extruder, too but then again, I don't have a Voron so I am not bound to those design "restrictions".
I got my LGX a few days ago. It's taken the place of a Mobius M4 as my 'desk fidget toy' - 'cuz I don't have an adapter for afterburner, yet.
Awesome review, as always! Sure about the editing between 17:55-17:56 though? Bit early in the channel for subliminal images :D
I caught that too; had to rewind a few times. I was half expecting something along the lines of “get rid of that stock Creality extruder.”
These compact extruders come with one major advantage compared to basically all "old school" extruders: A very shot filament path.
The filament does not need to travel through a long heatsink, where especially flexible filaments are compressed (or streched during retraction) and extrusion precision is therefore reduced.
Especially with TPU you can significantly increase print quality and significantly decrease retractions.
You are leaving the major advantage of this extruder behind by the way you attach it.
I understand your concerns regarding center of gravity and loss of print area, but this both can be mitigated by careful printer design.
I am currently in the process of designing a carriage which lets the mounts of my X-axis slide in a slim gap between motor and X-axis.
I will hardly loose any printarea compared to a topmounted system.
In terms of design with mounting, thats going to vary printer to printer, and everyone has their own goals in mind with what they want.
With regards to the filament path, with the setup i was using it was a 60mm bowden piece between the hotend and extruder, i use some spare cap tubing i had and encountered zero issues feeding material, including TPU, through it.
@@CanuckCreator that's definitely true, but if you want to evaluate the LGX then I think you ought to include printing TPU fast, and printing super flexible filaments, since this is what it's supposed to be good at. If you don't push its limits, and only show that the LGX can do exactly the same things as you could with your old extruder, it doesn't show the whole picture :)
Did you have to recalibrate upon upgrade?
Also thanks for all the content. You're awesome!
The feeding would be smoother solely because of the gears being bigger, the smaller the gears the clunkier the engagement and that’s why you typically don’t see tooth profiles with less than 15 teeth. That’s why the walls of the box section are smoother
Hello sorry to ask but I can’t find the drawings/stl files of the printed mod parts. Thanks for helping me out.
Great videos thanks !
Think I'll try to shove this into my v0 build]
Good video! very detailed, I would suggest investing in a better camera as it is almost impossible to see detail with the one you are using now.
That’s going to be the CZcams compression, he’s using a DSLR for video recording.
Hey Nero, would you consider a review of the LGX Lite?
You mention that this has a bigger stepper motor than some of the others, but does this larger stepper actually bring any improvements except increased weight?
Ever tried high density PLA?
And do you think the optional heatsink is really needed for TPU given your results?
That text at 17:56.
I had to slow down playback and pause xD
Like the smash button!
At least he can prove to CZcams that he mentioned it......😂
Too fast can't read
have you tried a micro swiss direct drive? i wander how much of an upgrade that'd be from my ender 3 v2 with microswissdd or maybe i should just get a pancake stepper
The comment about mounting. They do have screw adapters for the face screws. So you can mount fans or sensors or possibly mount it face first.
Hi, nice video. Could you tell me what length bowden tube I will need with my Dragon ST hotend on the Aftyerburner for my Voron2.4? Or maybe how to determine the length? Thanks!
I have a Prusa MK3S+. I think I might go with the LGX to eliminate issues I’m having with the extruder and hot end.
Well I think I know what I'm buying. My Ender 5 Pro extruder is is slipping on certain filaments only and I really need it up and running to start printing parts for my Voron 1.8 build. For the time being I think I will order this and throw it on the Ender, and then swap it to the Voron once I build it and buy something a little cheaper for the Ender. I also already have a Phaetus Dragon on the way from China for my 1.8.
I'm debating going direct drive on my ender3 pro. Would you suggest the bondtech lgx or ddx over some of the alternatives??
now i want a LGX extruder lol
A question in the physic of form, if you took some circle two of one meter, or two of 10 centimeter, wen close together, which will ave the most surface touching one to another?
Damn I wished I waited a bit before buying the bmg extruder. They even have a kit that fits my sidewinder x1.
P.S: I love these emojis
Me too. I guess I'll have to build a second Voron.
I'm gonna put a gear or a belt and use one of these combined setups with it. the motor is on the back with a belt connected to a 5mm shaft and a bearing!
definitely not the lgx cause god that cost smore than my entire life, but rather the NF Sunshine
nf sunshine sounds like the best market buyable extruder to me, it's hemera and sherpa combined. but I wanna make my own extruder that uses sanding belt.rubber to push the filament to avoid marks on it, and it also uses a flat path to have more grip over 1" of filament instead of a small spot
Can i ask at what speed do you print this models? Thank you :)
First of, I like your down to earth, yet thorough approach to testing but I think may have seen a tiny bit of comfirmation bias going on toward the end of this video in reg. to the surface quality. If you used exactly the same parts, speeds, etc (except for the extruder) between the two prints then yes, you are probably right in your findings. But a few other things could lead to the same result. (If the parts are the same, then please do disregard the above;))
But what's even more interesting is how many subs comment that now they are eager to get an LGX... I mean, people are free to buy what they want and I like bling, too but unless you know for sure that you have issues with filament slipping and grinding, then I think the conclusion is you may not see any improvement in your prints at all. Or at best, a very, very minute one. What you may very well get is a heavier extruder which is not a non-issue perhaps if you are at the forefront of techy print wizards and fool around with klipper.
Thank you for the insights and review, Question for you I have a Creality CR-10 v3 and I have been looking at Hotend options would you pick the LGX FF (Mosquito Hotend) or the Biqu H2, Both looks like good options to me, the Bondtech being in Canada will be just over $200 from what I can find and the Biqu will be around $150.
I have both the LGX and H2, there not really in the same tier in terms of performance and quality, id go with the LGX
@@CanuckCreator thanks. That is what I thought given the experience between the two but thought I would confirm. Thanks again for the great content.
@@CanuckCreator also you would see this as an upgrade over the V3’s setup of the Titan and E3D’ish stock hotend?
@@sparks-tech I know you weren't asking me, but I just replaced my genuine E3D Titan with a BMG (not the LGX tho) and the difference is night and day. The Titan had become very fiddly and hard to dial in. I like the BMG so much that I got an LGX to put on my Voron. I'd say definitely an upgrade!
Mine is skipping while loading TPU at each wratchet click setting. It extrudes for 20 seconds then starts skipping. Not sure if this is steps per turn tuning or what. Any help would be great. Thanks.
Hey i have a question, i have an ender 3 v2 and i would like to build a voron one day but i don't have the space right now. What do you think would be the necessary upgrades to the ender 3 to make it in to a switchwire. Do you think it's possible?
there are a few mods/conversion designs out there already for turning an ender3 into a SW
is an improvement but have better option like OMG dual wheels for more contact. I prefer spring and spring reles from OMG or titan. because what if i need a right presure between already lvl bondetech make. Imagine i need presure betuen lvl 1 and lvl 2 how i set it in this LGX?
and for more contact have 3 axe rotate asparagus sweeps.
Does this solve the Voron Issue #6 problem?
Omg, you just did me a twofer, I now want an LGX and a ... :)
5:56 - that looks like a groove mount on the adapter (The circular part?) - how would one put a mosquito on that adapter to get it to work?
That dished out circular area is because the LGX mount works with all the afterburner supported hotends, that cutout is for the v6 groovemount
The bowden tube goes through that area keeping filament contained, so the gap when a dragon or mosquito is used isnt an issue
hey there what gear ratio, rotation distance , mictrostep of lgx for config
I was unable to find the LGX mount on discord, probably because I'm not good a searching. Can you tell me the date of the posting or provide a link? Thanks Steve
Its pinned in the voron user mods channel
@@CanuckCreator Thanks. I printed the parts and they fit perfectly. Steve
I guess the LGX and Pro have the differences of metal gears?
ur comment on how you have to mount a hemera on the front is slightly wrong. I've been using a mount that puts it fully underneath (with the linear rail below the x bar), it makes it far more stable than even generic dd printers. although this is on an elf. I fixed the lost Z with a simple halo rise, lifting it by the lost amount (ofc harder to do on something like a v2.4 where the entire halo moves up and down) but a lot easier on something like the v1.8 of course. just a bit more info on this subject.
How good is the LGX compared to an M4 Extruder? I'm building a new bowden printer and am a bit unsure which one is better
Same i was eying a M4 before i found out about this. I think the large feed wheels might outweigh the benefit you get from the 0 lash operation of the M4. Maybe the guys at voron will make a M5 with the new feed wheels. Did you make a decision on which one to get yet?
@@Blenzo480 I ended up with the LGX, partially because it was way easier for me to source than the parts for an M4. I really like the LGX but it is not that much better than a regular Bondtech extruder so if you want to save some money and you can get the parts easily then I would recommend the M4
@@andreasmohr7835My biggest concern is how easy it is to load. My Printer sits on in a shelve so i want something that i can load without taking the printer off the shelf. The stock extruder on the Ender 3 is pretty hard to load blind. I think i'm going to build a M4 just for fun
If you had to quickly choose between a clockwork and the LGX for the Voron 2.4. What would you choose?
Cost isnt an issue? LGX
@@CanuckCreator Thought so. Thanks for the quick reply.
What retraction distance and speed did you use?
Used the same settings as the clockwork
Does having double sized gears means, that you roughly halved your 1:3 gear ratio?
No.
It just makes the module larger
where do i download the three adaptor plates
Check the voronuser mods section on the voron discord
Are there adapters for the e3d v6 and nova hotend?
This was tested in my voron v2 which uses the afterburner toolhead. It supports the v6/dragon/dragonfly and mosquito.
No nova support
Where is a good place to source a quality Voron 2.4 kit?
Refer to the sourcing guide on vorondesign.com
Between this one and the BIQU H2 which one would you stay with?
I havent done a rull review of the h2 yet. But the lgx would probably be better for most use cases
@@CanuckCreator thanks! Are you planning on doing a review for the h2 soon?
I have covered it on stream a few times. And one is installed in my ender3 atm
Review will eventually come when i get the free time.
How easy is it to load? I Have my ender 3 on a shelve and i have to take it down every time change filament because i can't for the life of me get the filament threw the stock extruder without looking at it from above. I almost bought a EZR extruder just because they are supposed to be real easy to load blind. I want to retain my bowden setup.
Just move the arm to open and push the filament in.
@@CanuckCreator sold
I would like to see prints made with this compared with the stock afterburner and with M4, side to side. The "the same or slightly better" comment is just to subjective and relying on memory...
Would love to see how this extruder works with something like the Dragon hotend instead of the overpriced alternative pushed by Bondtech. :P
This was all tested with a dragon hotend in the printer
@@CanuckCreator oh didnt realize.. how did it mount up just two bolts like normal?!
@@Moronicsmurf yup. Drops right in in place of clockwork
@@CanuckCreator Is yours the standard or high flow version?
It cost more to make goods in the USA, I think Slice has priced fairly given that. As an American Citizen, I try and support USA whenever possible.
comes with no cabling and you have to print your own mounting plate ? that sucks IMHO
Ya the lack of a cable is an L for sure. Mounting plate i understand though. Vorons arnt an offshelf printer. Their diy..so expecting companies to make mounts for them is a bit.
I just hope the parts will be available so we might someday have a LGOrbiter/gallileo.. I feel weight savings, "in any moving parts", is a good thing... and, I think the Large Gear design is GREAT. Input shaper, is, ..awsome, ... BUT, ... I feel there is WAY more potential, IF,... it keeps evolving/advancing. ... Resonances, harmonics, ... I feel some "damping', should be in there, ..... sounds a LOT like music to me, ( I am a poor,"ability wise", musician), though in this, I think, keeping acoustics's " down/low", would be preferable. .... Nero, you're doing, "Gods work", here, keep it up. Oh,.... I'll be late getting to the Sat. stream, but, if the pre-stream is up before I leave, I will Like the Smash Button ... .... That's all I got for you now.....
A little bit of this, a little bit of that. Nothing is perfect.
The LGX is incapable of printing 60A TPU without jamming.
So... It's not even lighter than the standard direct afterburner. Its only advantages are the clicky arm and the big gears.
Recipe for the perfect extruder: take the motor and the gear reduction of the Orbiter, and take the clicky arm, its spring and the two large gears off the LGX
Put them together into a Clockwork replacement extruder.
Name it something like "The Pointlessly Expensive Extruder"
PEE for short
Phonvoli, this sounds like the next Orbiter version.
I think you may be on to something with PEE as a lot of printing folks suffer from "People Invest Stupidly Syndrome"...
Just kidding. I too spend money on "bling parts" once in a while. That said, I don't want a heavier extruder so I am all with you on how Orbiter and LGX need to make a baby.
In theory there is no more contact between the filament and the large feed wheel. A line and circle can only touch in single point.
That only applies in a perfect model. The filament is soft so the gears can deform it slightly and get more contact. Analogous to car tires on a road. The contact patch is rectangular instead of a line.
@@MBrewah04 Not really the same. Gears deform the filament locally because the pressure is considerably higher on the knife edges of the gear. So it's more like a clean cut. And in this case it's not the tire that gets deformed it's the "road". The "road" is already flat.
Regardless of apologies, I don't see how you can say that in real world use, a larger feed wheel won't have more contact and a higher precision of control vs a smaller diameter wheel.
@@MBrewah04 it will also have much less pushing force
buy a SLA printer with the cash for just an extruder
micro soap
This really wasn't super helpful with the unfocused camera on the print quality shots.
Totally overpriced ecosystem!!! (And the heater concept with thermal paste only without clamp is a nightmare!)
Wait a view days and overcome your "must have reflex" to realize that you don't need it and better have your money in your pocket instead of theirs.