Tenet reviewed by Mark Kermode
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2020
- Mark Kermode reviews Tenet. Following Clarisse Loughrey's review last week, Mark gives us his thoughts on Christopher Nolan's latest time-bending blockbuster.
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They should have focused the heart of the movie on the friendship between Robert Pattinson and JD Washington. That last scene hit harder than any scenes with Elizabeth Debicki “worrying” about her child
I wish the ending scene had made me cry, but the relationship build up just wasn't strong enough 😔
@@davidhap11 This was the story with the entire movie. It felt under baked. Hard to specifically point out why the characters felt so flat considering how heavily some of Nolans previous movies leaned on plot, but this time it just did not work. Maybe the central premise just isn't as engaging. I don't know about you but I really couldn't care less about the "pincer movement".
@@vvvvgggg haha given that the story wasn't that compelling I focused on the visuals and production, and the temloral pincer movement is a pretty cool tactical idea 😅
@@davidhap11 Maybe the entire movie being a big disappointment sort of soured me on the final act to the point where I wasn't able to appreciate it's cleverness.
This movie will go on a very exclusive list i think of movies that I really didn't like that I will end up re-watching.
@@vvvvgggg yeah totally, it's a 200million dollar movie with state of the art tech and genius production, but it has no heart lmao
Some scenes were difficult to hear because the boom microphone operator was social distancing.
Hahaha
Hahaha 😄
Oh. Ha 😂 thanks for the laugh 😂 come to brazil
My word that brought a smile to my face.
With this comment, you have fully lived up to the expectations of your channel name
It asks for multiple viewings probably more than any other movie I've seen, but offers probably the least incentives to do so of any movie I've seen
This is an excellent comment, if I may say so.
I wholeheartedly disagree, if I may say so.
Lifeofnate
Well have you seen it again?
I must admit I felt exactly the same as you on first viewing when I actually fell asleep many times. Partly because I kept on falling asleep I knew I would watch again plus my plan was always to watch it again with subtitles which I find are essential for Nolan films. I have now watched it 4 or 5 times with subtitles and plan to watch it 1 or 2 times again when I have the time. Nolan intrigued me enough over time plus some CZcams explanations to change my view of the film.
@@just_joe.__1997 Hi Chris...
Great comment man 🤣
Isn't Tenet just Red Dwarf Backwards episode with a Hollywood budget but no Kryten to explain what happening.
And yet, despite the Hollywood budget, they never explained what happens when you need to use the loo while inverted. Red Dwarf addresses this with, "Don't ask!"
@Chex LeMeneux You're right, they do wear masks for breathing. [thinks about it] ...so is that the reason The Protagonist walks funny when entering inverted time...?
YES, this was exactly I was thinking when the first backwards fight started. It was comical
What's red dwarf? Sorry my stupid is showing
Yeah but no one takes a dump
Great point - Tenet left me asking mechanical Q's rather than philosophical ones
But why is it necessary to ask only philosophical questions from a movie? Clearly both science and philosophy exist.
Akshay Singh I think the point there was that many philosophical questions in other Nolan films can relate to our world outside their respective stories; the mechanical/technical questions he had in mind after watching Tenet were relevant only to that story and how it works. Ideally you’d at least want a bit of both anyway, not so many questions on how scenes work that you’re left with nothing philosophical to think about.
@@d.c.beckendorff1323 it made me think about things beyond just the mechanics of the story
I think the point is that - mechanical questions are largely inconsequential to your life. It revolves entirely around the world of and mechanics of that specific film, whilst philosophical questions can be applied to the viewers life. Take inception's ending for example, sure you could debate the mechanics of the final shot of the spinner but it doesn't impact you as a human. However it also poses philosophical questions about our reality and if being in a world that isn't real actually matters if we can be happy.
Mark's point which I agree with is that Tenet doesn't really give you any of these philosophical questions that could be applied to every viewer.
Yet you still left with questions. I know so many films that were like having fast food. By the time you left the theater and started your car, you already forgot anything that happened.
I'd like to see Nolan make a stripped down suspense/crime thriller again, something along the lines of Memento or Insomnia (which are my favourite films of his after The Prestige).
Brent Ulstad odd bit of trivia re Following: sets, wardrobe, lighting were carefully made to reproduce or reference Robert Bresson’s ‘Pickpocket’, which is a classic forerunner of French New Wave from about 60 years ago. Not sure why. There’s a definite overlap in subject matter but the tone is not the same at all and Nolan doesn’t seem to have anything at all in common with Bresson.
Fully agree with your Nolan picks. I like Following, Prestige and Memento very much... cannot remember Insomnia... do not care for the rest of the catalogue.
I really liked Tenet, but I agree. That's where he should go next. Or, how's this: a horror! I feel his directorial skills and sensibilities could lend themselves to a great horror, even if the source material isn't something he wrote (as was the case with Memento and Insomnia). And he showed with Dunkirk that he could do a genre outside what he had done before and do it really well. I think that'd be interesting.
@Cybernaut 2183 Even with its non-linear structure, Memento is a simple, yet emotionally devastating examination of memory and guilt that runs circles around Nolan's newer films in terms of its execution. It needs no grandiose philosophizing or explosive setpieces to be effective; it works entirely as a character study.
I feel like Nolan has got as far as he can with his string of big budget spectacles that it would be a welcome break for him to do something smaller next.
@@brentulstad3275
Thank you, that's very kind.
Totally agree with everything especially the comment about the sound, you need to hear everything and you couldn't
They went a bit too overkill with the audio authenticity in some scenes, like the train scene and the plane scene both of those almost hurt my ears and I actually saw another audience member covering their ears during those scenes.
don't you guys have subtitles in the movie theatres ?
@@VARMOT123 I watched it in a Thai movie theatre with thai subtitles. I can't read Thai though unfortunately. I suspect the local audience understood the movie a lot better than me
Go watch my tenant video brah
I’m going to ask for a closed caption device for my next viewing
The problem with every line being importent is that it makes it so easy to guess where things are going.
Also did it not weird anybody else out how much this film lacks shots of the "enemy" in shootouts? The whole thing felt like just looking at the good guys shooting someone somewhere off of camera.
Exactly the same issue in Inception. Terrible action scenes.
Felt like there were 3 antagonists in that entire sequence
But did you guys get the real truth that Niel is Kate's son max.
Do you mean the end battle scene? The first time I saw it I didn’t even realise there were 3 sides in the battle. I didn’t have a clue what was going on.
@@thecanberean I don't understand that, there are multiple shots of bad guys in the background and one shot of like huge group of them getting out of a helicopter. Besides, the point of final battle was a chase sequence not a fight itself.
Tenet: A film about a woman wanting a divorce- the rest is just a McGuffin to enable this conclusion.
CPU UK thats too shallow
That's not at all the point? Did you miss everything about inverting the entropy of the world to destroy it?
@@CaptainTitforce I think the op is making fun of this films dopey pretensions
Accurate
i'd like to order 1 mcguffin please
The key is to watch the film while time inverted yourself. You will have no questions at the end, though you may find the experience rather forgettable.
I live in China and watched it here in IMAX. I was jealous the Chiense had their subtitles. I caught about 65% of the dialogue. My Lithuanian friends were looking at me in even more bewilderment. I had no answers for them.
We need Tenet so we can tell Christopher Nolan to add subtitles to this movie because no one can hear the dialogue clear enough.
As a black dude, it is awesome to see a blockbuster film in which the protagonist is the lead and his race is never an issue.
(Edit: just realised how many people pose as black online - eg ‘dean browning’ - can promise you that I am indeed what I say I am. And there’s *nothing* political implied in the comment either)
How many films with a black lead don’t even bother to name his character?
@Grant Kerr They actually do better but not giving him a stupid name like protagonist. Card access granted.
@@deliaproductions Watch any interview with Nolan and the unnamed protagonist was in the script long before casting began and was an deliberate reference to films like the dollars trilogy. You’re grasping straws.
👆🏾👆🏾👆🏾💯💯💯
Another movie with a great black lead is "His House." The movie terrified me and the refugee couple did an amazing job, especially the husband whose PTSD I could literally feel through the screen.
Mumblecore on a 200 million dollar budget
Leigh Parsons problem is, I can actually hear and understand the dialogue in mumblecore films 😆 this is just poor sound mixing which really shouldn’t be the case in a film like this
@Your Comment Gets A Gold Star Apparently Nolan makes dialogue in his soundmix muffled because he thinks audiences working harder to understand will be more immersed in the film. Thats like a novelist insisting the dialogue text is in font point 2 to make the reader squint.
Go watch my tenant video brah
It's not mumblecore. It's an epic spy thriller.
@@TheWelchProductions I don't know what the point of this comment is.
Watching Tenet on second viewing was incredibly rewarding. I found that I understood more of the plot than I thought, this time I was able to just relax and enjoy knowing what was going to happen next. I never had a big issue with the sound except when the characters were wearing masks, in any case it didn't diminish my enjoyment of the film.
It’s pretentious nonsense
Tenet seems to be the sequel to a film not made. The mystery is not in how it ends, but how it began. Its enjoyable thinking about what & who the earlier part of this story involved.
I was trying to decide if a prequel set after the events of the movie would be amazing to have or just ruin everything.
@@streaky81 im holding my breath to see how this links to Inception. Although Sir Michael might be there to make sure that Tenet and Inception isn't in the same universe. :(
Exactly how I felt. Left me wanting more and to dig deeper.
except thats literally the point. you realise that the events of the film have not been spontaneous but meticulously planned.. that's sorta what makes the ending good.
@@streaky81 "a prequel set after the events of the movie". Obviously, you got it! So many here don't...
I haven't seen it yet but I'm looking forward to Tenet: The Directors audible cut.
Being able to follow the story is just the first step. What you should be asking is "Do I care about the story and characters?"
Exactly. And for me the answer was no I don’t.
I didn't have an emotional investment in the characters but that's not the point of this film, the mechanics and plot are. I loved both of those and can't wait to see it two or three more times to dissect everything.
Nolan doesn't do story, he does spectacle, noise; his characters are all ciphers.
@@samcooke343 Very convenient that Nolan gets to decide he doesn't need to worry about characterisation or dialogue.
@@Ovenman940 So? That's like saying it's very convenient Scorcese doesn't need to worry about action sequences with incredibly complex plots.
I was stunned the second time I saw it. The first time it was relentless and I struggled to keep up. The second time was a revelation because my mind was free to just “watch” it because I had, I guess, taken so much in subliminally the first time...
Really. I found it even worse the second time round. I’d forgotten how interminable those early conversation scenes were and just how wooden John David Washington was. All of its flaws were just highlighted to me.
@@thecanberean I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that about JDW. Some of the dialogue was bad, but he made it even worse.
Alex Hawkins sort of agree. I actually thought he was good in the second half. He is really good at the action stuff and emoting. Delivering the dialogue he comes short IMO. Almost like you can see the words on the script popping out.
I'm tempted to watch it a second time but I'm not looking forward to it as I found it so loud, boring, and incomprehensible the first time.
I watched it in IMAX the second time and had a harder time hearing the dialog than standard. However, the first time watching was like unraveling a series of plot knots and the second time I could see the whole rope, almost felt like I had Neil's perspective. Loved both experiences
The film had no heart and very little to care about.. It was all plot and no story... A serious mistake from an experienced executive team. Might as well be Transformers for Mensa, for all it's worth.
Nailed it
Yup. So very try hard.
I couldn’t hear parts either all muffled even in imax
Agreed, especially when they were wearing oxygen masks.
I watched it for a second time today, this time on IMAX and had a more difficult time hearing the dialog on IMAX 🤔
A lot of the film requires you to think about the elements of the story itself, not the precise words being said. At least that is my humble interpretation.
@@anthonymartensen3164 it was a poor sound mix though anyway. Like the bass was brick-walled and fatiguing. I thought there was an issue at my theatre.
@@vincevirtua honestly that wasn't an issue I had upon my experience but a respect your thoughts on the matter
"timey wimey, austin powers thing"
I'm not a Brit and I haven't seen austin powers in ages...but isn't this Doctor Who?
Timey wimey is Doctor Who, but I guess the Austin Powers thing refers to when Basil Exposition tells Austin and the audience that they don't need to understand and just enjoy it
Also, they’re discussing Time travel and to get around all the complicated paradox stuff, Powers goes “oh no, I’ve gone cross eyed” when he’s trying to understand
The Tenth Doctor: People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.
Yeah bang on
I love this film, but pretty much every key point in it can be found in episodes of David Tennant era Dr Who. Apart from the reverse bungee jump
This film borders on being just an excuse for the reverse-time gimmick, IMO. It's mostly well thought out, but there were some parts where I could see the cracks and I had to actively suspend my disbelief.
This film probably _has_ to be watched at least twice, and that's a mark _against_ it, for me.
You should only have to watch a film once to understand it.
@@johnsharman7930 I watched _Inception_ twice because I wanted to; I'll watch this again because I *have* to.
@@JMUDoc Nobody's stopping you.
@@johnsharman7930 The sound mixer is... I'm not watching this again until it comes out on Blu-ray :)
'I could see the cracks and I had to actively suspend my disbelief.''
Yep. There were multiple sequences where there simply wasn't a satisfying answer for 'why is X character doing Y?'
I’m going to go see it subtitled on Monday. Really if he insists on keeping the sound mix he should include subtitles anyway.
Or boycott his movies. I do. I'm not paying anymore to get my ears assaulted by his aggresive sound design (can we still call it a score?, it really has nothing in terms of melody and is so on the nose bandage to artificially create tension) . It's his established gimmick and it's the most unpleasant thing. It's a deliberate choice on his part. I find it the most annoying aspect. It takes you out of the movie. Anyone else would do this, he would be destroyed by critics....
worldapart90 I do think Nolan has more to his films than the sound design and I’m willing to overlook the sound design to get well fleshed our characters and imaginative storytelling.
@@rhodriwilliams2599 Where exactly are the well fleshed out characters in Dunkirk and Tenet? Both films are really unpleasant viewing experiences in part due to the sound design but not only. Complexifying simple things (different timeframes mixed in Dunkirk, rewinding in a Bond/Hunt movie in Tenet) just for the sake of it is quite pointless and creates pretentious and tedious movies.
worldapart90 eh if that’s your opinion then fair enough, I really like his films despite the sound design.
@@rhodriwilliams2599 I wish I could say the same. It used to be the case but now his gimmicks or defaults outweight the positive for me unfortunately. Even on first viewing. I won't rewatch Interstellar or Inception because of the noisy last tier but I was ok with it during the first viewing when they were released.
Spellbinding action scenes, although I struggled to follow the plot at times (like others) and invest in the emotional core. However, the more I've let it sit with me, the more it's growing on me. Worth a re-watch at some point!
I think I agree with you. The first time is just incredibly overwhelming. But the more it stays with me it is growing on me. Especially the implications of the ending.
I don't think it's a failure of storytelling if people are saying they need to see it again because they didn't understand it. Perhaps it would be more telling if they just wrote it off as nonsense. Not everyone would've fully understood a Shakespeare play back in the day and they've been studied for centuries. Probably the same with some of Kubricks work. Replay value is a good thing in todays disposable film climate. I just watched it myself and also feel the need to see it again. It's almost like it needs to be watched middle to middle! With regards to sound issues, I experienced the same muffled dialogue, it felt like we were missing dolby tracks or side and rear speakers. The sound only came from the front of the auditorium and the dialogue was a little quiet in the mix at some points and also very heavy in the low mids. A lot of the important sibilants weren't there. It's not (as many people have said) because there is too much sound going on, too many tracks etc and the dialogue can't compete. It would be quite straightforward with some half decent mastering to have the same dialogue cut through the mix more so it's either intentional or cinemas aren't screening it correctly (which is feasible) or it's a technical error (which I think would be the least feasible but possible if it wasn't mixed and premiered in the correct environment under lockdown for example). In terms of crits I would say (on first watch) that the film was clever, but perhaps not clever enough. When I say that I don't mean more complex. The first half seemed quite vignetty, a bit like one of those perfume commercials at times and I wonder if the script could've somehow incorporated more traditional structure elements to make the first half more accessible. Aside from that the film felt a little cold overall, I didn't really get emotionally invested in the characters even though the performances were all great. Reminded me a bit of Memento/Irreversible/Primer. Action as always with Nolan was terrific. Overall thumbs up from me, fully enjoyed it and look forward to seeing it again. Oh and I'm definately thinking about physics at the moment. If the bullet holes disappear in the future, what happens when the glass first gets made? EDIT: Watched again at BFI Imax, probably the place it was made for. Sound was better but still tricky to catch everything. The film is so dense and requires a lot of concentration to catch important lines and theres very little down time which allows you to think. I'd like to remove my crit about it being vignetty and cold. I now see it as part of the spy thriller genre and pattinsons character adds a good dose of emotional resonance to the script. One additional crit I would add however is the film being a 12 rating. The scene at the beginning with the teeth pulling for example suffers from this. On the first watch I thought the jaw being rebuilt was from the pill he took. Still have many questions but really is quite a special film.
"Not everyone would've fully understood a Shakespeare play back in the day" --- NOT the point. As an audience any film with mystery elements NEEDS to be MAINLY understood on first viewing...a SMALL amount can remain mysterious....Oah ndyou are trying to equate Nolans writing with Shakespeare gtfo
@@atomiccritter6492 What rule book does that come from? A film is meant to be entertaining, Tenet did just that with visuals alone. If it can stay with you afterwards and make you interested in watching it again even better. I didn't equate Nolan with Shakespeare, that wasn't the point. Why can't a film be a complex puzzle which requires multiple viewings? I take it you didn't enjoy it then?
@@SonicTemples you clearly did equate Nolan with Shakespeare its in black and white.
Yes a film CAN be a puzzle but expect non nerds to rip it to pieces
@@atomiccritter6492 My original point was that I don't believe that its a storytelling failure for a film if its not understood upon seeing for the first time. I used Shakespeare and Kubrick as an example of complex works which are considered great and yet may not have been fully understood by an audience when first seen. That was my point, not that Tenet is a great work. No idea about that yet. I'm not sure what your definition of a nerd is here but it's a bit of a shame to suggest only nerds like complicated movies.
Mark, in Inception, the spinning top is MAL's totem, not Cob's. Cob's totem is his wedding ring. If he has it on *he* is dreaming. No ring = reality. It's a misdirection.
That makes no damn sense, just existing or not makes for a terrible totem. It would have to be a ring that spins a certain way or something, but merely appearing in a universe that can manifest grenade launchers is unreliable and follows none of the established rules. I personally think it's a plot hole and inception is shoddily over written and it IS meant to be his ring even if it doesn't actually make sense, along with a million other things in the movie.
Tenet is beautiful and masterfully crafted experience and a complete narrative and conceptual mess
That is honestly a perfect way to describe this film. Visually stunning but when it comes to the story telling..it’s a mess
Agreed
I think the polar opposite the story is utterly incredible and mind blowing it’s just the execution of that story is the issue honestly most of the issues can be fixed just by watching it with subtitles
It's not a mess though. I guarantee once people have seen it enough times and worked it all out, every single piece of it will make perfect sense - like it does for Nolan.
sam 방탄 I’m not saying the understanding of the world is a mess. I’m saying the overall storytelling and the plot is a mess. It’s convoluted and confusing. There are very minimal amount of scenes in the second act that are useful to the actual story line and almost every scene in the entire second act feels like it’s just happening. It doesn’t serve to develop the story in a coherent way. The visual spectacle of the film was amazing and I’d probably say it’s worth a watch for just the effects and spectacle and for the general story line, but as a film and from a storytelling standpoint, the film is a mess.
When you watch it for a 2nd time you realize that Neil is the heart and soul of this film. His sacrifices are much more understood upon repeat viewings and it does have an emotional impact.
Maybe that emotional impact is in my future, or it was in my past and I missed it.
The problem there is you have to rely on repeat viewings in order to possibly get to some semblance of an emotional core to the film. That’s simply not good writing
Stefen B. Echols The theory that he’s the son makes some sense to me.
@@killthomas8373 I disagree. It's writing that's so detailed that it warrants multiple viewings.
I can't wait to see it again. That ending was fantastic.
Didn't Brannah play a similar Russian-villain-dying-of-cancer in Chris Pine's 'Jack Ryan movie from a few years ago - LOL?!
Probably served as inspiration for Nolan to create the character, it’s not unusual at all.
Always over the top Villian
@@marleneg7794 He's a Shakespearian actor, he tends to be over the top a lot. I'd say it works great in Tenet, but that's just my opinion.
In 'The Night Manager' Elizabeth Debicki played the partner of an evil arms dealer who the protagonist tries to take down and gains access to him by saving his life and ends up defeating the arms dealer with the collusion of Elizabeth Debicki's character, sound familiar? Maybe Nolan isnt so original after all.
@@stevefoster7529 Whoa, didn't know that! Interesting...hmmm.
On the poster, "I enjoyed it...a big spectacular well made movie...I saw it in a very nice cinema with good social distancing. " Mark Kermode.
Yes, I found it difficult to hear sometimes and, like Mark, I didn't get why the penultimate scene had the two teams coming at the thingy from two different directions. I'd like to see it again, but I think I'll choose a subtitled screening.
Top selling Xmas present this year will be the Tenet dvd/bluray.
Everyone will be watching it again with subtitles
That Nolan's pretty crafty isn't he?
re: "Top selling Xman present ..." Was spelling out "C-H-R-I-S-T-M-A-S" too much trouble for you @chungster666 ??? Ehhh?
And the follow up DVD - Tenet for Dummies
@@warriormanmaxx8991 what is Maxx short for? 🤔
Bang on Mark, my exact sentiments after viewing the film too. I was no less than engrossed all the time, I had issues with the sound and really need to see it again...or have I already done so?
I would never go back there for 2 1/2 hours cause I left at the end not caring at all for the movie.
Same here. I would have cared more if I had understood it, but beyond that I never really cared much about any of the characters. I didn’t know why the main character and the woman even liked each other. There was just no build up of any kind of emotion for anyone, perhaps because I was too busy trying to understand what the heck was going on with the science.
@@dreamweaver1603 Typical Nolan, he creates concepts not humans
I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling absolutely unimpressed. I didn't think much of the New Mutants either, but TBH I wasn't really expected much from that film. Tenet - I was hoping for more.
Just Stuff I went in blind, but just from the tag line that it was an international espionage thriller I was hopeful. I didn’t know it was also sci-fi or that I wouldn’t know any of the characters and would feel nothing for them. The only actor I recognized was Robert Pattinson, and even he was so different looking I had to think on it for a moment.
New actors wouldn’t bother me so much if I wasn’t trying so hard to figure out what was happening. I walked out feeling dumb.
I absolutely cared for Pattinson's character and I left with questions because the film was going 100mph. Is that bad? Not imo, it just asks for a second viewing because it enhances the experience. I think people ego get hurt when they can't figure it out all in the first view and they lash with a bad critic.
The dialogue is always weird in his films, strange sound mixing
Why this is a consistent problem in all his movies is beyond me
@@z-beeblebrox He jus won't be told, as in he jus won't budge on HIS definition of dialogue sound mixing.
It's now a real problem.
Dark Knight Returns is one of, if not THE worst sound mix i've ever heard.
Thomas Carnacki apparently it’s because Nolan wants his audience to REALLY focus
I think is was by far the worst in this one than any other of his films even though it is still pretty awful in films like interstellar
@@georgepool2241 Agreed, there is a major scene in Interstellar where Michael Caine is revealing a dramatic revelation while dying and I couldn't hear a word
I hope Nolan hears all of this and remixes the sound for the blu-ray release. I feel like once that is done this will age like fine wine.
The biggest issue I had with Tenet was this:
With great "fetch" movies (there's a plan to achieve a thing, we learn how they're going to go about achieving it, we find out what they gain by succeeding and we find out what they lose by failing), the information we need is presented before the plan is enacted so that the tension of success/failure is felt as things progress. Nolan seems to have reversed this in Tenet. I kept on thinking that I had little idea who these people were they were meeting, why they were going to a place, what they were trying to get etc for most of the movie and it only fell into place after the fact. It was only when I put it in that language that I realised that he used the cause/effect reversal concept on the structure of the movie itself. Now, that might be "clever" but it's not at all satisfying as a viewing experience.
Good point, but as you mentioned yourself, it is reversal concept of the movie, as you are following the protagonist moving forward in time, while learning about things that are moving backwards in time through Neil. A traditional movie would be from Neils perspective. Reversed, but logical in its foot steps towards solving the puzzle. However, Nolans approach enhances the whole reverse concept of an otherwise traditional forward moving plot and in extension of that, it makes the protagonist discover that he is the creator of Tenet through his unique observational ability - an ability sarcastically dubbed posterity at two key moments in the movie.
@@AidenIlkhani I think this film and it's concept presents quite an intriguing discussion when it comes to these epic Nolan (and others) high concept films. The concept-driven structure and narrative may be incredibly deemed intelligent and on reflection, a "deep" film. However, films are made to be enjoyed while viewing them also. A great concept does not necessarily make for a great film.
@@alexpettitt7337 Absolutely agree with that. Seen plenty of great concepts not translating well into a film, either by a directing that fails to weave the audience through its plot or technical challenges coming short of an otherwise noble attempt.
My problems with Tenet is not related to the directing nor the technical level of its scope, but more to do with plot development especially in the third act with the Temporal Pincer strategy. While fitting to serve both as a tactical maneuver and directly connecting the movie's premise and title, I felt that Inception did far better at conveying the importance of actions on different layers of time having to depend on the success of each other, whilst Tenet's third act felt a bit "lazy" and quickly put together at a location where separate bombastic actions rarely had to connect with each other and served merely as showpieces of technical action.
As a whole movie with a very technical premise of time manipulation, I would certainly say it qualifies as pure cinema despite its shortcomings in the plot and whilst one could critique its directing for not carrying every member of the audience through its narrative, I do think that perhaps we as audiences have also become quite lazy in our expectations of movies hand-feeding us all the information by the time the credits roll. This is not to excuse Nolan from his responsibility of taking care of the audience through a concept he himself set the bar for and there are certainly issues at many places in the movie where either pacing or explanatory scenes would have been much welcomed or better relayed to the audience, but then we would also have to be honest and say that we are upholding Nolan to a much higher degree of criticism than most other directors.
@@AidenIlkhani " it makes the protagonist discover that he is the creator of Tenet through his unique observational ability " i didn't pick up on that at all. Makes me intrigued to see it again.
The final act makes the most sense if you use the soundtrack as your cue. The temporal pincer is laid out scene by scene in not only the colours of the teams, but the soundtrack either being played forward or backwards. It makes the action really clear immediately if you are alert for it.
The whole editing of the movie is off. Not only the sound editing as people have already mentioned, but the dialogue in various scenes is off. There were moments when a conversation just unnaturally moves to a different frame and it didn’t mesh well with the next scene. It happened several times in the movie that I thought to myself, “Nolan directed this movie?”
I saw the movie at a 70mm IMAX theatre. This movie at the theatre I saw it at is the most annoying sound experience I’ve ever had. It displaces “Transformers 2” from the top of the list. Michael Bay was probably salivating at all the explosions and gunfire during the last act of the movie.
Agree 100%. It actually became comical to me the way exposition was delivered as they try and cut to different sets as the dialog is delivered so as not to bore the audience. Yet, all I'm thinking is, "so, they weren't talking at all between getting on the train and getting out of the station?" That whole "rolling exposition" bit is done like three separate times when in a regular film it'd be used once and never again.
It was so loud the music,I actually got a headache for a few minutes
I found that the music was loud; but it was never so bad that I couldn't make out what people were saying. On the second time round I did find it much easier to hear though; and it was in a considerably smaller cinema - so perhaps the issue is worse for larger theatres?
great shout. hasn't been mentioned enough how miserable the dialogue, exposition, storytelling was. enjoyable spectacle but really a bit of a naff film.
Boss Attack
“So as not to bore to the audience.” I’m actually wondering how much was intentional on Nolan’s part because if this is the direction Nolan is going in, then Nolan’s next movie will be a no-go for me at the theater.
Yeah it was kind of annoying - I agree that the just about every line of the script is important, but the most important ones happen when there's a lot of background noise. At a key scene (where there was some muffled dialogue), I found myself trying to make sense of what was just said, while the next thing was happening, so by the time the final scene takes place, I wasn't sure how or why they were doing what they were doing, in the way that they were doing it. It was aesthetically stunning, and I really wanted to like it more than I did, but after the first time I got lost, I think I was lost for good.
Can't wait to watch this film with the subtitles for a second and third viewing. It was a great film to go back to the cinema to watch, visually and audibly stunning, but I really get what Mark is saying about the mumbling.
What it was also missing was the character that acts as an audience learner (if that makes sense). Someone that's explained what this world is so we can understand it just that bit better. There's one particular scene in the film where he's handed a gas mask and I'm like "why?" even though it's explained very very briefly.
I saw this at the IMAX screen in Manchester Printworks. The sound was deafening in places, and I struggled to hear a good deal of the dialogue. I thoroughly enjoyed it though, and look forward to unpicking it thoroughly when it is available on BluRay
Mark - Can you give a reference to the essay you namecheck about the Prestige/ McGuffin issue. Can't seem to find it. Thanks.
Anybody know what essay on The Prestige he talked about?
There is a video essay related to the idea that the diaries cannot be trusted in the film. It is called Dishonest Truths. Although it doesn't get into the idea that Angiers is basically lying about Tesla etc to sell his trick to the audience, it does question whether Angiers is to be believed in general. You will find a lively discussion in the comments about the idea though. Some of the discussion is the usual you tube back and forth, but some commenters make very valid points on the idea.
@@CreationK. top of the Nolan tree...
@@CreationK. yeh I think he considers it one of his best films
The movie is all plot and no character.
While objectively the stakes are high, I was never given a reason to care about the characters or the plot so it didn't feel like the stakes were actually that high. And the one character who did have some kind of arc had the most unoriginal tropey arc possible for thier character. They felt like plot devices rather than characters.
It was technically good but some problems with the audio like muffled dialogue. I think the soundtrack was great, it makes creative uses of sounds such as breathing and playing things backwards and forwards. Great action scenes (I love the way that Nolan directs action) the written dialogue was okay, nothing stood out as particularly good or bad. I much prefer inception, which is far easier to understand and had more character work and emotion than tenet, if that even means anything to you. I still had an enjoyable experience but it definitely has its fair share of issues (I'm avoiding talking about the actual plot because I don't want to spoil it for people, obviously)
After the first time I saw it (in 70mm) I gave it a 7.5/10 and then I saw it again (digital projection) and my current score for it is 6.5/10
You may love it, you may hate it, but that's for you to decide of course.
@@CreationK. did you not catch the 10th Anniversary edition the week before? Still amazing!
@@CreationK. totally with you there, everything is perfect in Inception, the score, the cinematography, the direction, the acting, the script, everything. Can you tell it's one of my favourite films?
I really wanted Tenet to be as good, but it suffered by comparison. I still place it leagues ahead of standard Hollywood fodder, but it seemed more of a mess, with more wasted pointless scenes and dialogue that was thrown away.
I thought the sound was off too. I've even looked up to see if a hard of hearing version with subtitles is available so I dont miss anything.
Does anyone know what essay on The Prestige Mark is talking about? I’d love to read it
Here’s a video that covers the theory in depth czcams.com/video/q4xB7Qrprbk/video.html
I've loved every Nolan film. Interstellar being one of my top 10 ever. However, he's asked too much of me this time. There is asking an audience to 'stay with me' but this is just telling a story so convoluted it loses the viewer, so now that are just watching set piece after set piece, backwards. Not hearing the dialogue of course didn't help but overall, he's over reached the acceptance of the audience, finally.
Take a step back Mr Nolan. Please.
Spot on. Agree about everything. Also big fan of interstellar.
It does feel like a self-serving vanity project for Nolan at this point. Being overly smart for the sake of it.
I’ve never been a big Nolan fan. I didn’t like Inception or Dunkirk, but I quite liked The Dark Night Rises and I could appreciate Nolan’s artistry even if it didn’t always work for me. But then I saw Tenet and it utterly killed my enthusiasm for any future Nolan projects. I might have just about tolerated the overly complex plot if the film didn’t have the worst sound design I have ever heard. There was some great visual stuff during the war sequence, but I was long past caring by then.
I felt the same, but I watched it a 2nd time and I loved it. Interstellar is also a favourite of mine.
@@Deanhughes5707 I will most definitely see it again on the small screen. However, I don't think it will change my mind even if I 'get it' the 2nd time round. The sound mixing was atrocious and just the whole thing was not told well, poor scripting in a lot of places and one weird set piece after another does not make a good film. If you can't enjoy a film 1st time at the cinema, something has gone drastically wrong.
Everyone has had the sound problem, trust me
I didn't
Not everyone
I didn't have it either.
I had it the first time I watched it, but not the second time. Maybe it was re-released? But it was weirder the second time since the music had no impact but I could actually hear the dialogue.
The film is weird from a technical level.
Is it just IMAX that had sound problems?
Great to have you back Mark!
Could you share the link to this article on the Prestige you're referencing? Would love to read it
The review I've been anticipating the most this year!
Same
Yeah and I was a bit disappointed tbh. I think Mark somehow feels he’s got to like it more than he does because it’s Nolan and...you know...clever.
Alex Hawkins surely no film critic ever panders to reputation and kudos.....
R S Never 😏
This film was a bit like Edge of Tomorrow mixed with the editing of The Counselor.
Yes! It had the same dodgy premise as Edge of Tomorrow, but, where that film squeezed through by not taking itself too seriously, Tenet took itself painfully, painfully seriously - just like The Counselor - which makes the plot holes difficult to ignore. And, like The Counselor, it was edited in a manner which was outright baffling, in an attempt, I suppose, to confuse the audience into not realising that the film makes **no sense**.
I described it to a friend as James Bond mixed with Red Dwarf 'Backwards' episode :)
@@DONALDSON51 Interesting, not aware of that episode to be honest but I'm assuming that we've arrived at the same conclusion that it's a mess?
I went into the film expecting to have problems understanding it due to some of the talk around the film. I can remember feeling slightly confused early on. But by the end of the film everything made sense. Possibly certain questions about it haven't occurred to me; I don't know. But it seemed reasonably clear cut to me in a general sense. I really enjoyed it.
Great Questions asked here. I went to see it a second time. Watching the mechanics of the action sequences unfold or “inversion” as they called it didn’t work for me but when the scene ended I said, yeah now I get it followed by wait, no, that doesn’t make any sense” I’m so confused. Really enjoyed it and Im looking forward to seeing this movie over and over again.
The climax was all simultaneous. The opera, yacht, Stalsk-12.
Been waiting for this!
I like going back to see a film like this again to catch what I missed.
You know you’re going in for a mind bender when you watch one of his films so just enjoy the twists and turns the first time round and then enjoy them again knowing what’s going to happen whilst picking up on the small details.
For the best review of Tenet look up "Austin Powers Cross eyed" on CZcams.
I see, where the criticism of wondering only about mechanics and not philosophy, comes from. However, I feel that Tenet is more about the question "is it worth it to take action / does anything I can do matter at all, if it's all basically determined?" Hence "I am the protagonist" at the end and the omission of a name for his character. Plus the video of the protagonist catching a bullet with reverse playback and something like "you had to put your hand there for it to work". This goes along with the question "isn't Neil more important / I care more for him" taking the biggest sacrifice, and tenet probably states no it's the protagonist, by setting it all up.
Certainly a film that should age better but not a fan the first time round at all unfortunately. I think the bombastic noises had something to do with it, although I did like Ludwig's experimental score in places
Yeh score really annoyed me. The main reason why I don't like Ludwig's score is cos I was trying to watch Fort Apache (the old Fonda movie) in the screen below Tenet. Got sooooooo annoying after a while that I disliked it before I went in to actually watch it.
@@ellbo2 Ouch. Tenet was louder than almost every film I've ever seen. But I promise the music does make sense when you're watching the film - it's just not a film I'd buy the soundtrack to. It's there to add to the intensity and scale of it all rather than the emotion.
Took a year, but I’ve finally watched the Blu Ray today. I absolutely loved it. And the time mechanics were top notch. Knew instantly that Kip Thorne would be involved as soon as they said “temporal”. I will admit however, it’s harder to follow than inception but it’s so good I just went along for the ride. The sound issues are the same on the disc. The audio mix is designed to deliberately obscure dialogue for some reason. Is it to show how confused “the protagonist” is?
He made the same sound mix screw up with 'Interstellar'.
What is it with mumbling audio tracks in recent years?
I watched this Tuesday night. There were a maximum of 10 people watching and at least 4 left early.
Bring on Bond!
Couldn’t understand a damn thing, completely spoilt the film for me
Just seen it today - couldn't agree more about the lack of dialogue clarity - I will watch it again, but with subtitles switched on a DVD when it comes out!
At last! I have been waiting for this review for ages!
Having watched the movie twice at the cinema, I would have to say that the second time round was so much better, providing answers to all the questions raised by the first viewing, a puzzle the first time round, a solution the second time around. Every part of the final battle made sense and the mumbly dialogue was not at all so prominent the second time around because I was not grasping for every clue having already seen it once. I would go so far as to say that to properly review the plot aspects of the movie one would need to see the movie at least twice because the movie is not designed to be understood in the first setting. Amazing movie and story, very complicated in all the best ways. I think it would only help if the dialogue sounded clearer though and would hope that we might get a version with that cleared up at some point.
Niel is max did you get that?
I’ve seen it twice and while I did understand a lot of things more the second time round at the end I was just a bit meh about it all and I still thought much of it just didn’t make sense and there was still no real emotional core to it.
@@skanda3337 I did wonder about it. I like to think he is because it could make a lot of sense if it were the case, but I didn't see enough to make it a definite proof, just an interesting implication. I did like how there is enough ingredients to extrapolate the events of the story into the past and the future and create your own version of he future and the past events of the movie. One idea I though was that the Algorithm was a just a distraction to distract the Tenet organisation as a huge number of people escaped the future and began their own society of people extending humanity back into the past from the troubled future, staying in the shadows of known events so they can hide and continue humanity's existence backwards until the beginning of time. Certainly not implied at all though, just thoughts that I had second time around.
@@thecanberean Yes, I agree that this was certainly more about plot over character development, and compared to, say, Inception, it seemed that there were a lot less opportunities to understand the character's personal motivations except from "saving the world", which I think could have helped. But I did get the feeling that Nolan had challenge himself to create a scenario where the Tenet operatives all worked to a strict policy of not getting to know any of the details about their fellow agents, so in some ways it helped me view things from their perspective better.
Couldn't understand most of Tom Hardy's Bane dialogue in Batman Rises either - perhaps dodgy sound is a Nolan trope?
Maybe Nolan needs his hearing checked. Or he's got hearing issues and is like, "I have to deal with it, now everyone else has to also."
It was in Inception. The dialogue in parts is little more than a whisper before an exploding sound that peels the paint off your walls.
@@dr.strangelove4450 That exploding sound in Inception is probably Hans Zimmer's score :)
Someone made the point in The guardian that a director will have lived with the script for years. Nolan will know every line in the film and he may well catch every word, because he knows what to listen for. Couple this with his reputation and I think sound mixers just don't have the nerve to tell him 'those voices cannot be heard!', or if they do, he simply says, 'I can hear it fine'.
@@davidlean1060 If that's the case, humility goes a long way. He needs to test the sound for his films on the worst available mono cinema sound system, or something like a 1970's clock radio. If the mix is working for someone who doesn't know the script through the terrible system, then he's golden
Yeah agreed with the review Mark, except the lack of accessibility on a first viewing and the awfully muffled dialogue is a much bigger problem for me. I think you’re maybe being a bit generous.
I had to see it a second time in a screening which had subtitles and even then i left confused (but less so)
Where can I find this Prestige essay that Mark was talking about?
How does he not mention exposition. Almost every line explains another bit of plot
1:53
@@Romanplaystation woops my bad
@@andrewbrowell3342 Very easily missed tbf, mate. Have a good 'un. 👍
What if you aren't supposed to hear the dialogue? There are many scenes where the background noise dies out and the actors can be clearly heard. Throughout the film a lot of characters explain that they don't understand the world they are in, or don't know what will happen, and I think the we the audience are supposed to also feel a bit lost and helpless. I think we are too used to knowing everything that is going on in excruciating detail and sometimes you have to "feel, don't think" like the lady studying the reversed objects says.
dude :/ im happy you liked it man but yeesh
I'd agree on the issue of not being able to gear dialogue in certain scenes. The visual storytelling is excellent, and there are some fantastic audio features in the film (like the music playing backwards in backward scenes, and forwards in forward scenes), but the ball was somehow dropped on some dialogue.
I would also say that there was a point (specifically the midpoint) where I finally felt like I understood how things worked, only to lose the thread somewhere later, probably also the point where Mark says he and others lost it.
It was great to be back in the cinema with a new Nolan movie, so many parts of it were excellent, but I left feeling just not quite satisfied with how the movie turned out.
I saw it first time a day after release at the BFI IMAX in London. I saw it again that evening at the Vue Leicester Square venue (both because I wanted to - and because I felt I needed to because of the sound). The sound at the BFI IMAX was MUCH worse than at the Vue Leicester Square. In fact it was so bad at the BFI IMAX I actually wrote to the Chief Quality Officer - who offered his e-mail at the end of the screening - and have now negotiated a return trip! He told me it was because "Mr. Nolan wants you to hear the big sounds, as well as the quiet ones...) In that sense, I think it's probably down to whoever does the sound at these venues, but more generally there certainly are big problems with the sound in Tenet.
Exactly how I felt about this film. Seen it twice and my overall opinion echoes the same sentiments. It's bottom tier Nolan which means it's great but just not as good as his other films in my opinion. Enjoyed it a lot.
Where does it rank on his list of films? Personally I think Dark Knight Rises was his weakest along with Interstellar, so provided it's better than those two I'll be more than happy.
@@larssonk22 it really is up to your personal opinion and tastes. My favourite of his is probably The Prestige followed by Memento and then Inception. This is a very intelligent and ambitious film but there is something missing for me. Character development possibly or even an extra inversion-based set piece. Wish it was 30 minutes longer to flesh those elements out a little. To really feel the stakes.
Mark is right about the sound mixing. It's really bad at times with the music and gunfire and people wearing masks and explaining key plot points. A little frustrating there. I still think it's a good film overall just for the ideas. I've seen it twice and understand the majority of what happened now. I may go again with other friends who haven't seen it. I highly recommend IMAX screens.
@@mazamonx Okay, your Nolan movies choices seem legit. Like Kermode, I also rank The Prestige as the very best Nolan movie. In fact, I would put pretty much all of his original IP movies above his Batman trilogy (great though those were.) Apart from perhaps Dunkirk, which, while a great first watch experience (especially in IMAX) does not quite rank up there with his other original movies imo.
@@mazamonx Those are my top 3 as well but Momento being #1
It wasn't great
I would pay to see this again if there was a subtitles screening.
If not, I'll wait for a digital release.
Most theaters have standalone closed captioning devices, you just have to request it
@@hotsauce69247
Oh neat, I didn't know that.
Will look into it. Thanks.
@@WeatherVeinFilms Yeah just check on your theater's website if it says "Closed Caption" next to the movie title. The traditional device is like a little box (where the subtitles will show) on an adjustable gooseneck stand, that you stick in the cupholder.
Some chains like Regal started using glasses that you wear, I've heard those are a little more difficult to adjust and find a sweet spot for the captions to show up
Saw it subtitled, it didn't help the script or story
There is a scene at the beginning with the scientist when she says
'don't try to understand it, feel it.
And the protagonist replies
'I get it... instinct'
That covered all the technical issues for me.
The best thing about this film is you feel stupid the first time you watch it and really smart on the 2nd watch.
Yes agree about the sound problems. Will need to watch it again to really understand it properly
Philosophy of Time is something I read often. Yet most of this largely went over my head. Bergson and Kant are clearer.
Augustine's good on time too.
I'm starting to wonder if the sound issues were on a theatre by theatre basis - i.e. some of the Dolby tracks were lost or improperly mixed in some theatres that Tenet took far more advantage of than other films (so you'd never normally notice it). Even IMAX theatres have had problems with Tenet, so it can't be that.
Either way, I'm excited to see it again on Blu-ray and get a better experience with the sound. Dark Knight Rises had the same problem in theatres with Bane and the Blu-ray was much clearer.
Anyone know what essay re the prestige he refers to? Would be keen to read. Cheers :)
yeah will definetly watch it a 2nd time to try catch all the dialogue again, if you listen properly, they tell you how the film ends within the 1st hour. I think the audio issue people complain about was intentional by Nolan to obscure those details
" think the audio issue people complain about was intentional by Nolan to obscure those details" That's.......not true one bit, if you want to obscure details in a movie you don't do it by having a character talk and the audience not know if there's something wrong with the sound system or not. It's a mistake.
I couldn’t wait for it to be over but I didn’t know when it would end because I didn’t know what was going on 👍
@Joegamer55 and the worst thing about it...its NOT even that clever
Why haven't people seen through Nolan's empty at heart movies: no emotional intelligence.
I just watched it and I've read many people were walking out of the theater on this movie....I completely understand why.
So right.
Saw it last night, I couldn't hear dialogue in over 5 scenes. Very frustrating
Does anyone have a link to the essay on the Prestige that Mark references?
After Batman Begins, Inception, The Dark Knight, The Prestige and Interstellar, I wanted to go back and rewatch the movie again right away. Although I enjoyed Tenet, I have no desire to ever watch it again.
Agreed.
Haven't felt the need to rewatch Interstellar or Dunkirk, especially at home where his trademark scale and bass-heavy sounds are much less impactful. This seems like the worst one yet. I don't even think I want to watch this at the movies, as it seems like it won't have anything worthwhile outside a big room with loud speakers...
@@Christian_from_Copenhagen Try Interstellar again, it's pretty good a second time :)
@@Zaafsta Why bother when I didn't enjoy it the first time? Too much explaining and Kubrick-worship for my taste.
@@Christian_from_Copenhagen Hahah fair enough, some times people like things they didn't like when watching it the second time around
I'm a Nolan fan, and I agree that his previous films have always trusted viewers to keep up. I felt Tenet came close to having disdain for its audience. Complex and complicated plots are one thing, but this was near incomprehensible.
i dont see how it was that complicated? they explain everything with painful exposition. you guys want everything on a platter and when he does people will complain about that instead..
@@jmm616 No, Mark's right: all you're aware of is Nolan's disdain for his audience, his contempt for
story telling and language as communication. To him language is more a secret code, an extension of technology. Look at his face, in his eyes: all you see is a blank.
First time I saw it I understood a good portion of what was going on but the sound issues made me lose track by the third act. Saw a few days later on the same screen and have to say the sound was fine. Followed and understood everything
I saw it in IMAX and didn’t have the problem with the sound. I’d love to know how many of the people who had difficulty with the sound saw it in IMAX vs regular. Could this have been a factor, perhaps?
Some people say that to understand Tenet you have to see it multiple times. But why would I watch this 2.5H movie again when I didn't care about any of the characters?
because youre a dimwit and Mr Nolan is the cleverest director ever..and IF you rewatch his films 12 times you will see how clever he is! /s
@@atomiccritter6492 the more I re-watch Nolans movies, the more they fall apart because of the weak scripts. Memento, The Prestige and Batman Begins are the only ones that hold up for multiple viewings. The rest fall apart as soon as you start to think critically. But I guess you won't because you probably gave The Dark Knight 10/10 to get in to the imdb top 250...
@@Tomanista 2 of those were not written by Nolan..I think thats the core problem...hes not a great writer
@@Tomanista Inception gets better every time I watch it. Tenet may not be a masterpiece, but that is.
Just watched at the cinema. The sound bothered me immensely! The loudness of the sound track, gunfire, bullets and explosions dramatically drown out the sound of the dialogue! I missed so much of what I thought should have been important to the story. A real shame as it detracted from what could/should have been a clever innovative thrilling cinematic experience . Overall I enjoyed the film and thought it had great performances by John David Washington and Robert Patterson but it dropped points along the way. I agree with a lot of what Mark says in the review, mainly, should I see the film all over again?
The sound mix seems to be also affected by some cinemas. I saw it in a big mainstream cinema and couldn't hear a bunch of stuff but went to go see it in independent cinema and the sound seemed to be mostly fixed
Forgot. Thanks for the review BBC/Dr Mark/Simon. You're doing great work.
"It's not about the tiny details. It's about the big picture!" - Christopher Nolan probably
Go watch my tenant video brah
I was just watching Ed Wood for the first time tonight as you wrote that comment haha
It is interesting that with all the exposition in the film, it is never quite ironed out how entropy inversion and time travel seem to work differently. It seems like inverted devices- like the bullets - still go forward in time even though their entropy is inverted. A broken glass, window or mirror unbreaks but it doesn't go back in time, but inverted people do go back in time essentially inverting the entire universe around them. They still seem like two separate concepts that don't behave consistently. Though that could be the result of the "algorithm" being separated so having different effects when combined in different ways.
I agree that some films - like Fight Club or Solaris or Pulp Fiction - invite multiple viewings based on both the philosophic implications and to see more, but with most Nolan films - THE PRESTIGE being the notable exception - repeat viewings are often let-downs.
The same problem as Bane in DKR. I remembered that they fixed the Bane’s voice after several complaints.
Sound seems to be an issue with Nolan films. I believe the same was said about interstellar and dark knight rises. Usually gets sorted for the dvd release.