Everything wrong with import shrinker/stretcher machines
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2024
- One of the most useful sheet metal tools is a set of Lancaster-style shrinker/stretcher found at most stores that specialize in import knock-off tools. I have owned this set for a long time and the stretcher has never worked right. I thought a set of stipple jaws would be a good start. I fell down the rabbit-hole of how they work and why this tool never worked.
Stipple Jaws: www.tinmantech.com/products/f...
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throttle-stop-garage.creator-... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
A case study in "buy right, cry once". I didn't even know how these worked to begin with so thank you for the enlightenment.
I've had them a long time - getting them to work was a long time coming.
I've been asking people for a long time what makes these work, and until now I've not acquired the answer. But there still seems to be a spring somewhere inside that brings the levers back to original position. Thank You, JD
Yes...the shrinker has spring to keep the jaws apart and the stretcher has one to help them together.
Another GREAT video - thank you! I used a friend's import shrinker / stretcher set and used that experience to purchase a set of Lancasters - very happy with the purchase. More importantly, your video will help other to repair / tune-up their imports!
Happy it was helpful!
I'm some kid who's just starting out 😅
But in all seriousness, love this type of content! Going beyond just throwing parts at the problem and delving into the actual sources of the issues, even if they're not possible or viable to fix.
Thanks - with the metal work coming up, I just knew these things were going to drive me nuts with how inconsistently they have always worked.
You only need just enough Prussian Blue/Dykem etc on Part A to leave a mark on Part B. By using more than the minimum you make contact patches appear larger than they are, and run the risk of disguising low spots. In the application shown here it may not have mattered too much, but if you were trying to flatten precision mating surfaces (e.g. the ways on a lathe) it would be counterproductive.
For sure - in this application it was only important to get it sitting square and not rocking. I should have flattened that die on my surface plate - but given what they were doing, there was no point.
I've had the same experience with almost every tool I've ever bought from Harbor Freight. Everything kinda, sorta, almost works - but really needs some tweaking. Sometimes a fun challenge, mostly just a reminder of my own cheapness coming back to bite me.
Yes - I just try to walk by the "great deals" now.
I thought we were heading for roller tip microadjustable contact surfaces... 😝. Excellent video... I thoroughly enjoy your sense of calm determination blended with top notch skills and experience. I am a rage mess manic ass when things dont work as intended... . But knowing is the first step in fixing it right... Awesome as always.
Thanks Marc - I was hoping to see big improvement from the new jaws and when it still didn't work, I took a day off.
Thanks for taking us for the ride
You bet
I have absolutely no idea what shrinker/stretcher machines are but I know I'll never use one. Yet I'm watching this instead of sleeping because, you know, Throttle Stop Garage
LOL - this may be the cure for insomnia.
What did i do to myself , i have made more work for myself buying a tool that definitely needs improvement . all's i wanted to shorten my work load and avoid buying a complete panel.🥵. Your excellent explanation is appreciated.
I know that feeling...
I have the Eastwood "elite" combo shrinker/stretcher and it works pretty well. I was always afraid of those ones. I may try those stipple jaws in mine! I've always wanted to find a set, so thanks for that!
It was all Eastwood sold at the time.
I have a suggestion that doesn't require casehardening the tool again. Drill or mill out the holes from the frame that keep the pin in place from the tool that is slightly too short. Give the holes threading. Then make some bushings with a center hole that is slightly of center and that has the correct diameter for the pin, and give the bushings threading on the outside diameter so that it fits inside the newly threaded holes from the tool frame. If needed make a set screw so that you can lock the bushings in place. The of center holes from the bushings gives you the ability to adjust the tool ever so slightly and very accurately.
That might improve things even more. That way it is possible to locate the pin a little closer to the correct position without the need to caseharden the tool again. It would also require some machining. But maybe that you have the tools to do that type of machining yourself, or maybe that a friend with a lathe can do it for you.
Anyway, another great episode. Big thumbs up and I am looking forward to the next episode. 👍🙂
Thanks - that's a great idea. Once set you could pin the threaded hole to keep things from moving. I've put these away for the time being as I have to get on to another few small jobs this week, then back on the suspension trail until that's done. After that - sheet metal. I'll do an update soon as it's hard to figure out what I'm doing as I'm sure it seems pretty random.
@@ThrottleStopGarage It is always a joy to watch your content. The different aspects from your project is one of the things that makes it interesting. 👍
Great Vid, Love the channel. I think Lazze did a video about lancaster shrinker stretcher upgrades...many moons ago!
Could have been. I think he was the first channel I subscribed to all those years ago.
I just brought a shrinker/stretcher. Probably a relabeled import so will look how well it is based what I learned here. Thanks.
I hope it helps get your new tool tuned!
Paused at 4 minutes for this comment.. I like seeing your face when you are talking during the x1 speed. Yes other fabrications use only the hands but I, we, are used to see you!!
LOL - I had a joke about This Old Tony that didn't make the final cut. I was laughing at myself - this was not an intentional style change...
You can clean the aliminium off with a solution of caustic soda ( lye ) and water. It will dissolve.
Good to know. Thanks.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!!!!!
Thanks for watching!
I have the Eastwood Shrinker Stretcher and I converted mine to foot operation and they work very well but I did have to tweak them
Dykem, the only time you’ll catch me wearing gloves 😂
Great video.
Smurf fingers FTW!
I had some of this type of shrinker and sketcher i remember i need shim the stretch up when it was worn and i changed one of the pins to a M10 bolt
I had them on home made stand with fot pedal it made them easier to use
I'm thinking about a foot pedal stand - not a lot of room for all this stuff.
interesting analysis of the problem. I would be tempted to shim the bottom to move everything up and get the action more into the first part of the handle stroke.
A few have suggested a shim in that location. I may just give it a try.
Too bad the factory doesn’t have a quality control dept, nice detective work
Thanks - just sad it took me so long to figure it out.
A file cleaner or wire wheel on a grinder really does the trick for cleaning i cut mine down and welded cross hatch file blades on the shrinker ones u have the same problem with steel sometimes I will use a tucking fork and shrink by hand abit if im shrinking heaps saves putting in the really deep marks
Great tip...dental tools was a risk and I only jabbed my thumb once.
I always wondered about how these worked. Thank you for what you showed.
I know it's harden but could you drill out the pivot hole then insert with a friction fit, an offset bushing in the pivot bar or even the case?
My back ground is metrology and in air craft fixtures we would use bushings that could be replaced or changed to put in or or take out offsets.
Something to think about if you want to ever improve it but if it is it working to your satisfaction leave it alone.
I for sure do not have the tools to drill hardened steel and insert the offset bushing you're suggesting. If I had a mill, it would be easier, but with a drill press, I'll pass. It's better - but when funds are available, I'll replace these and hope they're better.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Could just drill out the outside case and re bush that with an off set bushing. It's just a thought. You did a nice video anyhow and if it works don't rebuild the wheel.
I'm retired and rebuilding a car from ground up and was always wondering how those worked. Great job on explaining and showing. I'm looking to buy a set and build a foot operated stand next.
@@monadking2761 Probably easier to just get some hard surfacing rod (or a used drill bit) and weld a little build up to the cam. I'm saving to buy a Lancaster set and will review when that happens. I understand they are quite a bit better. Have fun with your car build.
Thanks again, I've also been looking at these to buy. We'd all love the best brands but the cost is far too high for Jo average. Leverage in these is simple but seems backward, high ratio at the start and gets less with travel just when you'd want more ? You concentrated on getting more pressure for a result. Can you comment on the jaw sideways squeeze travel while trying to shrink, new jaws vs. old jaws ? Did the original jaws not work because there was not enough pressure to make that sideways squeeze travel or were they not gripping the work sufficiently ? Hope you understand what I'm asking ?
Interesting question. When I first bought these tools, I found that the stretcher worked OK but the shrinker was useless (or the other way around - it was a long time ago). I ground the dies to work better. The "V" they fit into looked like someone cut it free hand with a grinder. I only touched them up enough to get them to work - the video goes further. I also have a larger frame unit that has basically the same jaws - and it works fine. So quality control is an issue - no big surprise. The Lancaster jaws are very well made and needed nothing. I'm saving up for a better machine in general and I will move these on at that point.
Yesterday afternoon, I was thinking, “Time for a TSG video.” And voila!
Awesome - should be another one by next week. I've got a little time I wasn't expecting.
Great video. I’m going to get a set and run through your process. I’m just learning so I bet they will work great for my purposes.
Glad it was helpful!
Great vid....thanks...
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you
Glad the video helped.
These Lancaster style shrinkers never work if you insert the flange to full depth as it appeared you did when you first tried it, the general advise I've seen - and it works for me - is to insert the flange 1/2 to 3/4 depth.
Agreed...the physics doesn't lie. Mine were very different in how efficiently they moved metal and I found out why. Both work fine now...but you make a good point...regardless of operation moving more away from a bend is the correct technique. Sorry if the video wasn't clear on this point.
Hello!
Your methods of tuning the jaws and the tool bodies are really great.
And I guess that the shrinker jaws may even work if propperly applied.
When bending angles you definitely need to stay somewhat away from the bend.
Otherwise you would try to shrink the perpendicular part of the sheet as well.
It will somehow work, but quite ineffective and with so much force needed, that will even destroy good jaws.
With stretching you don't have this problem that much, but it also works better when stretching more on the outer edge.
Your consideration regarding the contact points of the levers and the forces resulting on the jaws are not correct.
It is correct that the effective levering and therefore force amplification is changing as the lever is pushed down.
But you also have to consider the direction of the force transmitted from the first lever to the second one.
As long as the force is not perpendicular to the second lever, a certain part of that will go straight into the pivot bolt of the second lever and another part is going to to turn the lever and therefore apply force to the jaws.
(some vector math but this can also be shown by drawing some straight lines on paper)
But that's all theory anyway.
I would recommend trying to use both shrinker and stretcher gradually from the outer edge towards the bend.
In case the shrinker does not work as it should (shrinking will always be harder as stretching because the material gets thicker and thicker material is harder to shrink - so to make it easier, make more small steps going sideways instead trying to push harder at one point ) just try to change the jaws between the bodies.
I see what you're saying...fair enough. The damage to the dies is still the result of the poor fit.
@@ThrottleStopGarage
The dies of the cheap shrinker- stretchers are made from rather cheao carbon steel sich as C45 (I don't know the ASME Code for that) this Steel can bei hardened to about 50 HRC which is kinda hard, but you can still work on this with a sharp file.
They have to be made from tool - steel which can be hardened up to 62 or even 64 HRC.
A file will only scratch the oxide coating on this stuff but not do anything more.
I have bought several stretcher- shrinkers.
One of them was a cheap one which i guess these all come from the same chinese factory, whatever brand- sticker ist placed in them.
I never got it to work.
An then I have two really good ones.
With thin sheets I even have to take not to shrink or stretch to much at one place.
With no signs of wear on the jaws.
But these are about four times more than the cheapest ones.
There are many cheap tools comming from China which really work quite well, especially for amateurs.
But I am exited to hear If you succeeded to get you tools to work propperly!
@Volker Dörr very interesting. I'm not surprised that they are the wrong material! I really want a decent set, but don't use them often enough to justify the expense.
If you quench the welds they'll be harder. You can also shim it with some SS to take the slack out.
I did end up just getting a better set. These work fine for what they are.
Thank You!
Glad you found it useful 👍
You can just screw plate on the side of drive side (where handle is) to pick up slack, it should work
It would be worth a try.
The math nerd in me said “yeah write that equation out”
LOL...I was starting to get carried away, but did stop myself!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Although I do appreciate your hard work / efforts with these videos, I do have one burning question: Was the car ever finished? If so, can you post pictures somewhere? If not, do you have a timeline for that?
The car is still on-going. I'm waiting for parts to finish the front suspension. I try to mix in a little of the other things I'm doing in preparation for the rest of the build. I'm spooling up to do a little sheet metal work on the project.
Another good video. They seem to work, you say. For the money what more do you need? The fun is in the messing around not the solutions. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. But you can try
Thanks. I don't know if I need much more, but if I can sell these ones and get a set that works better (mostly that will run the stipple jaws) then I'd do that. I've got a lot of sheet metal work to do and these are critical tools.
@@ThrottleStopGarage The ongoing pain experienced by wanting to get things as good as they can be (perfectionist) You have my sympathy. I just spent a day trying to get the throttle linkage on my carb right. Getting another carb is not an option Love your work, please keep It coming.
@@fordyootbling2189 Thanks - I once spent a week reworking a carb linkage for a friend and he still raves about how sweet the action is...when people comment that it's a waste of time, I just shrug. It's my time to waste. There's no foreman in my shop. LOL.
While not likely a good solution, could you machine an offset shaft to shift the arms into a more accurate position if you had a lathe or hobby mill?
And I've got a grinder! It's fine for now.
I have a dumb question. Could you shim between the body and the lowest die guide to get more pressure?
No - the pressure comes from the slope of the die. The outward or inward force is controlled by these ramps.
I like the foot operated Shrinker/Stretcher better then the hand operated. They got dee throats and they are much more $ . I like the J&S and the Baliegh , I don’t know where they’re made .
I'd like to upgrade at some point.
How much were the new dies? Thanks for the good video.
My philosophy on HF tools is: Unless I can eventually use it as a doorstop or hammer, I don’t buy it.
In this case, you’re ok. These are heavy enough to be used as a doorstop😇
I recall them being a little over $100 USD for each set. Agreed on the tools...I try to avoid the cheap tool temptation.
Can't wait for the overseas factories that make these knock-off machines to finally reach the manufacturing precision of the 1790s. (Eli Whitney, interchangeable parts.)
I hope they improve the quality a little - these were pretty rustic.
I would be tempted to weld a shim onto the handle flat surface rather than try and increase the radius end, but I doubt you would ever really be happy with that tool in your workshop now even if it did work.
I thought about it - but I am concerned that the softer metal will mushroom and be a PITA. I'd pick up some hard surfacing rod and weld it - but a shim on the handle side would be easier. End of the day, it's worth it to just know. I also know that one more day of fiddling around with them won't be worth the time. Good enough for the next little bit.
I guess I got lucky as my equivalents worked ok. My beef is the short throat.
I also have a deep version and it's always worked fine. Luck of the draw.
See...size matters.
Good video
You got that right!
Did you ever consider moving the shrinking jaws over into the stretcher body to see if that improved performance? BTW, this video is very timely for me as I've been considering buying this tool but my local Harbor Freight has been out of stock for a while. After watching your video I'll probably go ahead and invest in the original Lancaster version.
Until I did the fix, I was never sure why the shrinker didn't work. Now it seems obvious. I thought the jaws were not functioning properly...which was true. I'd like to buy a Lancaster and see if it's any good - stay tuned.
Thanks for stating the obvious, that it just isn't worth the time to fix cheap tools. This reinforces all my prejudices against "chinesium"! I try not to buy cheap, but I still end up with regrets on occasion.
I just thought it needed to be said. I've always said that good tools only hurt when you buy them and cheap tools hurt every time you use them.
@@ThrottleStopGarage yep the saying You get what you pay for is always true when mention about Tools 🔧
Nice welding table. Fireball?
Nope, I made one myself and the other was made by my brother.
tig weld the face ,,, but use a 2mm drill bit as a rod ,,, it will be hard enough to get you by ,,,
Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
Look at lazze metal shaping he have a you tube video about your it
Yup...and he straightens a spring...not the same problem.
Next time you might find someone with a Surface Grinder 😉.
That would cost more than they're worth!
Yeah me 2 re Engineer most all Harbor Fright Tools it's become a PAIN IN THE BUTT GHINA WHERES THE U.S.A.AND CANADA .?
Looks like you’ve got it mostly trued up. If you need things like this cleaned up on the mill or surface grinder, shoot me a PM.
I’ll probably buy a set of these sometime and see how good I can make them by squaring up the surfaces. Think I can probably grind a less aggressive grip pattern into the jaws also.
Thanks - that's a very generous offer. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this set up. Works well enough for now.
Buy cheap buy twice, I know not everybody can afford to buy quality Tools-I know I can't, but I do buy the best I can afford even if I have to go without some necessities, I'm on my own so I can do this.
Agreed...good tools only hurt when you pay for them. Bad tools hurt every time you use them.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Spot on Mate 👍
Can’t you just use the stretcher with shrinker parts??
The jaws interchange - the advantage of having both tools is you can work a little more quickly.
Generate more force at the tip.
Just the tip
Just for a second
Just to see how it feels.
LOL...good old AVE.
O wasn't yelling at the screen about the grinding I was screaming about the Prussian blue. Your using 8 times too much! It should be a film the transfer should be translucent.
LOL...sorry that was triggering. I've learned my lesson.
less yappin', more lappin' :P
LOL
I cool metal in the snow too. Must be a Canadian thing.
put a longer handle on it
It was going past the cam - so a longer handle would just get me into trouble faster. It was rocking on the tip and close to flipping.
Best thing I did was make a foot operated set up from a old Total gym excersize machine gives easy force and lets me use both hands on work peace, schinker will never be as good as strecher , your trying to pull metal together and not apart and that's expecting alot to happen.
They both move metal a lot better now. I only had footage of me trying to use the shrinker in time lapse...but it really was a bad tool. I'd like to get a foot operated set up for these at some point.
@@ThrottleStopGarage didn't know about cleaning makes sense mine lost alot after I did a aluminum peace probably filled of grippers,, love my foot of operated,, not hard to make
Yup, I've got to get one or build one.
@@ThrottleStopGarage just got done cleaning my jaws up made a big difference , Thanks
beli matanya aja ada om🙏🙏😁
I'm not sure what this means.
you are using way too much spotting dye... you will get a false pattern with that much goo on your surfaces
It was a bit of a mess....but it got the job done.
You could donate to a certain neighbor.
Deal.
Thanks for an interesting video, i'am just going to build one pneumatic my self. Gunnar. Norway.
Sounds great! I would like to have a much better set one day.