Great review as always. Holding off on these. Problem for Milwaukee is the M12 HO batteries are much later to market than their M18 HO batteries. The M18 3.0 6.0 & 12.0 have been out for a few years, with many deals, I’ve already piled up a bunch. But anyone been using M12 lineup for these past few years probably already has a few 3.0 CP & 6.0 XC doing just fine. The only real benefit I see is in a pro garage environment where the added protection of the new M12 battery case would justify it.
High energy density cells need to be discharged slowly for maximum efficiency. HED cells have higher internal resistance, so when they are discharged quickly they heat up from the high current draw and more energy is lost to heat.
It would be interesting - I just didn't have either the 3Ah CP or the 3Ah XC. My suspicion is the 3Ah CP will perform similarly to the 2Ah, seeing how the 4Ah and 6Ah were pretty close to each other.
3.0 spoiler alert! I rotate all my batteries but my two amp hour batteries have lasted more than two years while the 3.0 batteries only held up about one year, and a co worker has same story.
@@Crucifixxated my two CP3.0 and two CP2.0 from from 2017 have no issues, my two XC6.0 from 2018 only charges to 3 bars on a regular charger and 4 bars on rapid and both tabs have broken off.
Excellent testing and review. I have to wonder why Milwaukee didn't make these packs a long time ago. These cells are not "new". Either way, I can't wait for the prices on these to drop. These packs should NOT be expensive as those 2.5ah cells are really quite inexpensive compared to the 21700 cells in the M18 HO packs.
M12 tools are intended to be powerful like M18. So high discharge 2.5mah cell is not seen as necessary. But more and more people prefer using M12 more often due to size&weight.
agree, at home depot, the charger, the 2.5 & 5.0 costs $249.00, which is amazingly expensive for what you're getting. I could buy a really nice impact wrench for that (that comes with a battery)
The M12 line still uses the "old" 18650 cells inside due to size constraints, but the 2.5Ah is about as good as it gets for discharge power. Thats the M12 battery you want for any tool that demands high continuous drain. Even the 2.5Ah casing is made to be fire resistant. The M18 line has almost all moved over to the superior "Tesla cells" with the 2170. They are just too large to be used in the M12 housings.
You just saved me some money. I was about to jump on a deal for the rocket light and 2 5.0 packs for like $215. Still not a bad deal, but I was only interested if it had a significant impact on performance
@@DoresoomReviews damn it, don’t you do it to me. I’ve got the m18 flood light (the one with 4k Lumens) and recently the m12 packout light. What do I do 🤣
The conclusions here match what I found with the ones I bought. The 5.0 seems to do a lot better for specific tools in some cases. Like you can easily hear the difference in the wine of the motor. For other tools not much of a difference. I will say, I find myself reaching for the 2.5 I bought every chance I get, for tools where I want a smaller batter pack. So yeah, not in a rush to pick up 5.0’s, but the 2.5s are nice. And they fit better than the old. I don’t know why Milwaukee has this one detail down terrible, but the m18 batteries rattle around, while the old m12 requires considerable fight to get in and out. The new m12s are much better. One small change they made to the m12 5 is the bottom area is smaller. Or it’s the size-ish but there’s a tapered region at the front and back. Not nearly as stable when you stand a tool up from the base of the battery
I like the different plastic that's more rubbery on the new batteries, should make the tabs last longer. 6 of my M12 batteries are over 5 years old and 5 of them have at least one broken tab.
I think it might be Nylon now instead of ABS. Nylon is more resistant to chemicals and has more elongation until breakage than ABS, but it isn't quite as strong. Milwaukee also recently filed this patent for battery tabs with a metal insert, which may be due to the lower strength of the Nylon: patents.google.com/patent/US20220352590A1/en
M12 detail sander fucking destroys battery tabs within hours of use. I’ve gone through 3 6.0 and 3 2.0 cp batteries. I just ordered 2 2.5 batteries and if they don’t last more than a couple months I’m so fucking done with milwaukees shitty battery platform. I shouldn’t have to spend hundreds and hundreds on batterys just to make my 100$ tool work. Absolutely ridiculous
I feel like for the price if you already have a 2.0 battery it really doesn’t make much sense to buy the 2.5 unless it came in a multi pack at a discounted rate.
Don’t get me wrong: I love my M12 tools. In my line of work, I chose the M12 line over the M18 for its lightness and reachability, while providing ample power for my needs. HOWEVER, I always thought that M12 big juice containers (4 amps and up) should display a built in battery gauge, especially considering tools’ quality, longevity, and price point. AND NOW, Milwaukee is passing on an obvious opportunity to remedy just that. « Enhanced big juicers whit a somewhat different lower casing? Naaaahh; there’s no need for a readout device. » At the very least, those m-effing M12 chargers (that we all own by the dozens) should display the energy level of a battery (and another cool function would be to rate said battery’s health, but this is a whole other conversation!).
good review, havent seen any of the reviews use the anglegrinder yet. would be interesting to see if it is less prone to bugging down with and HO battery pack :)
Do I really need the ho 5ah for my drill and impact? No I don’t. But I bought one and plan on a couple more. The reason is simple. I hate abs plastics and these ho batteries are much better durability wise. That’s my reason. Also if in the future I have higher power tools such as the saw I’m ready to go. If the other batteries used the same cases as these ho batts then I wouldn’t even bother with the ho lol. I’m not pushing my tools so hard I need them and mainly use the cp 1.5’s just for size.
That graph is normalized per Ah, just to clarify. So the 2Ah gets ~5 minutes. the 4Ah gets ~10 minutes, etc. I mainly use my M12 vac for spot cleanups, and rarely run it for more than 5 minutes at a time. I like how much power it has while maintaining a compact size. It pretty much requires a 4Ah or bigger battery though.
Nice video. Serious question. Can someone explain why Milwaukee does not make it possible to use a Milwaukee M12 circular saw with a GRU1400 guide rail? or even better why don't ALL Milwaukee's circular saws fit on a guide rail ? I just dont get it ..
I really like it. I bought the 72" 2-drawer version for my laser cuttter and the Anycubic Kobra Max printer I just got. It's sturdy, and you can position the bottom cross brace at the rear so it doesn't interfere with leg room. The drawers are a little light duty, but they're also fairly shallow so you can't weigh them down too much anyway. Casters roll smoothly and the adjustment mechanism works well.
Having problems charging them. Was using them a lot with the m12 radio (5hr batteries) and was fully discharging them. Tried jump starting the batteries (jumping them off another battery) but still will not recharge. (They did take a part charge as they will work after the jump start, but charger errors out.)
To make sure I'm understanding correctly, the 5.0 does in fact run stronger than the 2.5? I thought the only difference was supposed to be the duration.
I've used the 2.5Ah a lot in the high speed ratchet, but I don't think I can tell the difference. I personally wouldn't use an XC pack in the ratchet just because it makes it more awkward to use.
Correct. These have 18650 cells, not 21700 like the M18 HO batteries do. Otherwise the 3 cells in the stem of the pack wouldn't fit in the tool's handle.
Where did you hear they discontinued the 4Ah XC? If you check Milwaukee's product page for it, they have 20+ retailers listed with it in stock under the "Where to Buy" button: www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Batteries-and-Chargers/M12-Batteries-and-Chargers/48-11-2440 They even still sell the 3Ah XC, which is super old.
yes, and no. I think they are slightly better in most cases, and in others they will change your m12 tools. It all depends on the tool. Either way, I don't think it's a must have.
Question is - are they reliable ? those previous 3 and 6ah fail big time using Samsung 30Q cells those 2 and 4ah are insane reliable i had them since 2018 and still work like a charm These new Samsung 25T seems to be decent, time will tell
I've run the 2.5 Ah battery empty probably at least 15X now, and no issues so far. But that's not really a long enough term to go by to say how reliable they are.
Kind of. A better rule of thumb would be the more and larger cells the more powerful. It has some exceptions, like the 6Ah and 8Ah HO batteries. Same number of cells in those, but the higher density cells in the 8Ah give it a slight disadvantage in discharge rate compared to the 6Ah.
Except they aren't as high quality, and the locking tabs break and they don't stay in tool. I've went through 4 m12 6 amp ebay batteries and all the locking tabs have broke, and I'm forever hitting my battery in every 6th ugha dugga ok my 3/8 impact or it won't run
I think I agree with you for the 5Ah. The 2.5Ah is a little more worth it in my opinion, if they'd offer a two pack at a more of a discount rather than the one for $80. Right now the 2.5Ah two pack at $150 only saves you $10.
I’m trying to figure out what you actually tested besides temperature? Your tests are pretty much useless? Why don’t you try hooking up meters to the battery’s. You know voltage drop or actual longevity tests.
Maybe you should run your own tests then. Most people aren't going to care about what the exact voltage drop is. They want to know how it performs in a tool, which is what I showed.
Great review as always. Holding off on these. Problem for Milwaukee is the M12 HO batteries are much later to market than their M18 HO batteries. The M18 3.0 6.0 & 12.0 have been out for a few years, with many deals, I’ve already piled up a bunch. But anyone been using M12 lineup for these past few years probably already has a few 3.0 CP & 6.0 XC doing just fine. The only real benefit I see is in a pro garage environment where the added protection of the new M12 battery case would justify it.
High energy density cells need to be discharged slowly for maximum efficiency. HED cells have higher internal resistance, so when they are discharged quickly they heat up from the high current draw and more energy is lost to heat.
Biggest difference I noticed was out of my m12 blower, the 5.0 HO battery lasts ALOT longer running it on high than my 6.0 did.
A lot of people(youtuber) claiming the same with other tools.
It would be interesting to see the 2.5Ah CP battery compared to the 3.0Ah CP battery. I don't think anybody has compared those two batteries yet.
It would be interesting - I just didn't have either the 3Ah CP or the 3Ah XC. My suspicion is the 3Ah CP will perform similarly to the 2Ah, seeing how the 4Ah and 6Ah were pretty close to each other.
@@DoresoomReviews CP3.0 provides significantly more power than the 2.0. Easily noticable on the fuel hackzall and cutoff tool.
Good to know, thanks!
3.0 spoiler alert! I rotate all my batteries but my two amp hour batteries have lasted more than two years while the 3.0 batteries only held up about one year, and a co worker has same story.
@@Crucifixxated my two CP3.0 and two CP2.0 from from 2017 have no issues, my two XC6.0 from 2018 only charges to 3 bars on a regular charger and 4 bars on rapid and both tabs have broken off.
Excellent testing and review. I have to wonder why Milwaukee didn't make these packs a long time ago. These cells are not "new".
Either way, I can't wait for the prices on these to drop. These packs should NOT be expensive as those 2.5ah cells are really quite inexpensive compared to the 21700 cells in the M18 HO packs.
M12 tools are intended to be powerful like M18. So high discharge 2.5mah cell is not seen as necessary. But more and more people prefer using M12 more often due to size&weight.
agree, at home depot, the charger, the 2.5 & 5.0 costs $249.00, which is amazingly expensive for what you're getting. I could buy a really nice impact wrench for that (that comes with a battery)
Thanks for tests. Answered some question I’ve had - like run time on n12 vacuum
The M12 line still uses the "old" 18650 cells inside due to size constraints, but the 2.5Ah is about as good as it gets for discharge power. Thats the M12 battery you want for any tool that demands high continuous drain. Even the 2.5Ah casing is made to be fire resistant. The M18 line has almost all moved over to the superior "Tesla cells" with the 2170. They are just too large to be used in the M12 housings.
I packed 3 molicell 21700 4000mah with 6 cell m12 housing. It's not impossible for milwaukee to make them
great review, been upset with milwaukees bigger battery sizes. i will go with your 2.5 recommendation.
Great review! Wonder if Milwaukee will ever go with the stacked lithium in their M12 line.
That would be ideal, though probably not stacked as much as molded pouches to fit (at least for the CP packs).
I have discovered the XC or high output m12 batteries on the impact driver really helps when driving in 2.5" screws.
You just saved me some money. I was about to jump on a deal for the rocket light and 2 5.0 packs for like $215. Still not a bad deal, but I was only interested if it had a significant impact on performance
Man, I love that little rocket light though!
@@DoresoomReviews damn it, don’t you do it to me. I’ve got the m18 flood light (the one with 4k Lumens) and recently the m12 packout light. What do I do 🤣
The conclusions here match what I found with the ones I bought. The 5.0 seems to do a lot better for specific tools in some cases. Like you can easily hear the difference in the wine of the motor. For other tools not much of a difference.
I will say, I find myself reaching for the 2.5 I bought every chance I get, for tools where I want a smaller batter pack. So yeah, not in a rush to pick up 5.0’s, but the 2.5s are nice. And they fit better than the old. I don’t know why Milwaukee has this one detail down terrible, but the m18 batteries rattle around, while the old m12 requires considerable fight to get in and out. The new m12s are much better.
One small change they made to the m12 5 is the bottom area is smaller. Or it’s the size-ish but there’s a tapered region at the front and back. Not nearly as stable when you stand a tool up from the base of the battery
Ah, so it's not just me that can't get the dang batteries out of my tool (M12 Stubby) most of the time?
A lot of M12 tools seem to be too tight - the Rocket Light is one of my worst for getting batteries out of.
I like the different plastic that's more rubbery on the new batteries, should make the tabs last longer. 6 of my M12 batteries are over 5 years old and 5 of them have at least one broken tab.
I think it might be Nylon now instead of ABS. Nylon is more resistant to chemicals and has more elongation until breakage than ABS, but it isn't quite as strong. Milwaukee also recently filed this patent for battery tabs with a metal insert, which may be due to the lower strength of the Nylon: patents.google.com/patent/US20220352590A1/en
M12 detail sander fucking destroys battery tabs within hours of use. I’ve gone through 3 6.0 and 3 2.0 cp batteries. I just ordered 2 2.5 batteries and if they don’t last more than a couple months I’m so fucking done with milwaukees shitty battery platform. I shouldn’t have to spend hundreds and hundreds on batterys just to make my 100$ tool work. Absolutely ridiculous
Very helpful! 👍🏻 My skepticism of Milwaukee's claims seems well-founded. I wonder how the CP 3.0s would compare.
I feel like for the price if you already have a 2.0 battery it really doesn’t make much sense to buy the 2.5 unless it came in a multi pack at a discounted rate.
Yeah, the M18 3Ah high output two pack is $100 everywhere right now, but the M12 2.5Ah high output 2-pack is $150. Not sure how they justify that.
The fact that the 2.0 struggles on nearly every tool, and i have to keep swapping batteries part way through a task, makes the 2.5 worthwhile...
Home Depot was literally giving the 2.5ah batteries away in certain tool deals since before Black Friday.
You saved me $150.00. Thanks!
Thank you for the review, learned a lot
Don’t get me wrong: I love my M12 tools. In my line of work, I chose the M12 line over the M18 for its lightness and reachability, while providing ample power for my needs.
HOWEVER, I always thought that M12 big juice containers (4 amps and up) should display a built in battery gauge, especially considering tools’ quality, longevity, and price point.
AND NOW, Milwaukee is passing on an obvious opportunity to remedy just that. « Enhanced big juicers whit a somewhat different lower casing? Naaaahh; there’s no need for a readout device. »
At the very least, those m-effing M12 chargers (that we all own by the dozens) should display the energy level of a battery (and another cool function would be to rate said battery’s health, but this is a whole other conversation!).
Thanks for the honest review I was thinking of buying these but I see it’s not worth it if you already have plenty of batteries.
They are up for sale at $99 Home depot, special offer 2pack 2.5 HO, don’t miss out folks
Great test. Thanks for sharing!
good review, havent seen any of the reviews use the anglegrinder yet. would be interesting to see if it is less prone to bugging down with and HO battery pack :)
Do I really need the ho 5ah for my drill and impact? No I don’t. But I bought one and plan on a couple more. The reason is simple. I hate abs plastics and these ho batteries are much better durability wise. That’s my reason. Also if in the future I have higher power tools such as the saw I’m ready to go. If the other batteries used the same cases as these ho batts then I wouldn’t even bother with the ho lol. I’m not pushing my tools so hard I need them and mainly use the cp 1.5’s just for size.
I just got the 2555 with the 2.5 HO battery - gonna report back if it loosens my BMW lug bolts - they have been on from April torqued to 120 NM.
Jeez 2.5 minutes on high for the vacuum no matter the battery lol glad I opted for the m18 on a vacuum.
That graph is normalized per Ah, just to clarify. So the 2Ah gets ~5 minutes. the 4Ah gets ~10 minutes, etc.
I mainly use my M12 vac for spot cleanups, and rarely run it for more than 5 minutes at a time. I like how much power it has while maintaining a compact size. It pretty much requires a 4Ah or bigger battery though.
this vid is good & even though i have both of these now i can see i can use mu 2.5 4 my 12 VAC W/D & ALSO THE XC 1'S CAN BE HANDY 2.
nice review! ty
Nice video.
Serious question. Can someone explain why Milwaukee does not make it possible to use a Milwaukee M12 circular saw with a GRU1400 guide rail? or even better why don't ALL Milwaukee's circular saws fit on a guide rail ? I just dont get it ..
I don't think that rail is even available in North America.
lol, you would think it was a standard. This is one of the reason why I might get the makita.
Oh I wish you can do a review of that husky height adjustable workbench soon.
I really like it. I bought the 72" 2-drawer version for my laser cuttter and the Anycubic Kobra Max printer I just got. It's sturdy, and you can position the bottom cross brace at the rear so it doesn't interfere with leg room. The drawers are a little light duty, but they're also fairly shallow so you can't weigh them down too much anyway. Casters roll smoothly and the adjustment mechanism works well.
BTW, review posted: czcams.com/video/_jUXFuatFtQ/video.html
Having problems charging them. Was using them a lot with the m12 radio (5hr batteries) and was fully discharging them. Tried jump starting the batteries (jumping them off another battery) but still will not recharge. (They did take a part charge as they will work after the jump start, but charger errors out.)
That's disappointing to hear. Definitely file a warranty claim! These are new enough they'll all still be covered.
To make sure I'm understanding correctly, the 5.0 does in fact run stronger than the 2.5? I thought the only difference was supposed to be the duration.
Yes, it can output more power due to having twice the cells in parallel.
If I have the 3/8 impact ratchet, if I purchase a 5.0 high output battery will that mean that it now has more torque power to loosen bolts?
I've used the 2.5Ah a lot in the high speed ratchet, but I don't think I can tell the difference. I personally wouldn't use an XC pack in the ratchet just because it makes it more awkward to use.
So unlike the M18 HO batteries, these don’t use a larger cell. Different cell, but not larger?
Correct. These have 18650 cells, not 21700 like the M18 HO batteries do. Otherwise the 3 cells in the stem of the pack wouldn't fit in the tool's handle.
Why did you drill in speed 2 instead of 3 ?
Because speed 3 doesn't exist for that drill.
@@DoresoomReviews Right....sorry. I was thinking of the impact driver.
Will Milwaukee ever come out with a HO version of M12 batteries?
These ARE M12 HO batteries...
Seems strange the 4.0 isnt sold anymore. Only the 3.0 and 6.0 maybe the 5.0 is the replacement
Where did you hear they discontinued the 4Ah XC? If you check Milwaukee's product page for it, they have 20+ retailers listed with it in stock under the "Where to Buy" button: www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Batteries-and-Chargers/M12-Batteries-and-Chargers/48-11-2440
They even still sell the 3Ah XC, which is super old.
@@DoresoomReviews homedepot Online has all m12 battery types
Hello why didn't you compare the compact 3.0 ? I have feeling this high output line is just marketing fluff. I will stick to 3.0 6.0
I don't have a 3Ah CP.
yes, and no. I think they are slightly better in most cases, and in others they will change your m12 tools. It all depends on the tool. Either way, I don't think it's a must have.
Question is - are they reliable ?
those previous 3 and 6ah fail big time using Samsung 30Q cells
those 2 and 4ah are insane reliable
i had them since 2018 and still work like a charm
These new Samsung 25T seems to be decent, time will tell
I've run the 2.5 Ah battery empty probably at least 15X now, and no issues so far. But that's not really a long enough term to go by to say how reliable they are.
Letters and logo in new batteries erased only by running the finger 👎🏼.
The less "aH" the weaker?
Kind of. A better rule of thumb would be the more and larger cells the more powerful. It has some exceptions, like the 6Ah and 8Ah HO batteries. Same number of cells in those, but the higher density cells in the 8Ah give it a slight disadvantage in discharge rate compared to the 6Ah.
👍
ebay has them cheaper
Except they aren't as high quality, and the locking tabs break and they don't stay in tool. I've went through 4 m12 6 amp ebay batteries and all the locking tabs have broke, and I'm forever hitting my battery in every 6th ugha dugga ok my 3/8 impact or it won't run
@@mattgerb17 there are counterfeits circulating. I double check the labels and make sure I buy from a buyer a trust.
Waste of money not worth it.
I think I agree with you for the 5Ah. The 2.5Ah is a little more worth it in my opinion, if they'd offer a two pack at a more of a discount rather than the one for $80. Right now the 2.5Ah two pack at $150 only saves you $10.
@@DoresoomReviews Are the M12 XC 4.0 batteries worth it in this day and age stacked against the HO 2.5 and 5.0 batteries?
I’m trying to figure out what you actually tested besides temperature? Your tests are pretty much useless? Why don’t you try hooking up meters to the battery’s. You know voltage drop or actual longevity tests.
Maybe you should run your own tests then. Most people aren't going to care about what the exact voltage drop is. They want to know how it performs in a tool, which is what I showed.