Rivian Dual-Motor vs Quad-Motor! Full In-Depth Review Of Enduro - Driving, Design, & Production
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Cool opportunity to test the Rivian Enduro dual-motor drive units back to back with the Origin quad-motor system. It's a long one, but lots of information that I hope is helpful to you.
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0:00 - Hello & Welcome
2:41 - Background Information
4:55 - Battery Packs / Motor Configurations / Max Pack Info
8:41 - Visual Differences - Quad vs Dual
9:40 - Skateboard Chassis / Enduro Configurations (Si IGBT / SiC MOSFET)
14:08 - Dual-Motor First Drive On-Road
22:48 - Dual-Motor Off-Road Drive
31:55 - Quad-Motor On-Road Drive
40:41 - Quad-Motor Off-Road Drive
45:52 - Clutch Disconnect Explanation
50:55 - Driving Differences Summary
54:04 - Factory Tour
56:15 - Enduro Inverter Deep Dive
1:05:16 - Enduro 3-in-1 Architecture
1:10:47 - Final Thoughts
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#rivian #offroad #dualmotor - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I'll be here in the comments section for the first 2 hours or so after this video goes live answering as many questions as I can because I wasn't able to get to everything in this video. Once you watch the full video, ask away! I suggest creating a brand new comment, rather than replying to this one, so that other viewers with the same questions can easily jump to the ones they're interested in.
So would you trade in your quad for a dual motor that is the question Kyle.
@@sworks7124 no - but if I was ordering one fresh I'd be pretty tempted to go dual motor. What I really want is the quad-motor with the updated drive units!
No NACS no go.
Why didn't they include or at least offer an option for locking diffs on the Enduro motors did they say?
Brake torque vectoring sucks sorry not sorry. We need locking diffs rivian!
So much more info than TFL (theirs is more pretty and entertaining but not what I'm after). Thank you for what you do
Agree! That's why there's so many different channels out there. They each have their own unique style and content strategy, and I watch many of them for those differences in order to get the info I want. I'm glad he prefaced this video to shut up the haters who apparently have rather short attention spans.
If you want a truck review, which is why you should buy the R1T, go to TFL. If you want a geek interview, which this guy admits and use your R1T to drive around hipster Brooklyn, watch this video!
Kyle's personality in interacting with others is always so respectful when asking about what his driving options are. Clearly he knows the details and can communicate at a detailed level (14:08 - Dual-Motor First Drive On-Road).
YES! Finally, I've been waiting for real drive commentary from someone who can actually feel and tell us what's going on and how the new drive trains stack up!
Thanks Kyle! When in doubt always dive deeper in detail IMO. I watch both your channel and Munro because of your dedication to discussing nerdy topics engineers are interested in. I also really enjoyed your exploded renders!
If you can't handle a little over an hour of vehicle deep-dive, you ain't Out of Spec material in my view. Ben Hardy is your huckleberry. He'll take you on a test drive around the block, give you a review fit for a bad credit used car lot, and have you on your way in no time.
🤣
I just purchased a dual performance T...and I just found this channel....LIFE IS GOOD!
Pretty excited for the dual motor. The quad is amazing but just overkill for me. Really exciting is their in-house motor built making it not that far off from the quad.
Been looking forward to this video!!
This is the video I've been waiting for. Now get one for a long term test and let's see just how much more real world efficiency you get, and let's see the real size of the battery pack!!
I’m excited for the dual motor for the fact that it’s a step in the right direction for Rivian economically. It’s a more sensible car should be either a manufacture and has a better chance of saving Rivian. The four motor is a fantastic tour de force, but it’s too expensive and they lose too much money. This was the car they needed to make to survive.
Can't go too much nerd for me. I can always tune out but it's nice to have a resource with deep understanding and extensive details. Keep it up!
Love it! Been waiting for this to drop!!
Thanks Kyle!!
Thanks for watching!
Fantastic level of info and tech insight. Love learning more about the vehicles and my own quad motor from watching your videos.
Teh content we have been waiting for! Can't wait to watch!
brilliant video, thanks for all the work you've been doing
Great Video. Enduro Architecture chapter was fantastic. New in-house quad twin locked is going to be the move!
Go Rivian Go 💚
I can't wait for some proper CO testing with the dual motor. I'll be putting mine to use when I get it.
As always, super appreciate the nerd level of detail. Love the deep dives.
thank you for mentioning diff lockers multiple times during the off road session! really want a feature like it for the quad
From one big fat nerd to another...
Thank you!
The Nerds thank you, Kyle!!! Great content!!
THANK YOU this is exactly what I wanted
I have been waiting for your review on the rivian dual motor! Only you cover the nerdy deets that I love
Love all the details about things I really didn’t understand before.
Thank you for the education! Very informative.
Ceep the longer videos coming. I love it.
Good job dude, great video.
Another Nerd Level 9000 video, great work!
We are happy with our quads. I am looking forward to seeing some dual motors on the road though.
REPAIR MANUALS!!! We need service manuals for the R1 vehicles! Right to repair is important.. especially when service appointments are sometimes booked 3-6 months out.
Great info! Would like more on this.
This is so great - thanks so much! More nerdy stuff please in my opinion.
I wonder if Kyle would like a locking differential? 🤔 It just wasn’t clear in the video if that’s something he would like to see added.
More nerd info! I’ll gladly take a poorly audio/video of you nerding out over a well shot one. Your videos are never poor quality. You dive into and aren’t afraid learn more. Thanks for the video. Dual motor would definitely be for me.
I'm really loving Rivian!!! I can't wait for the R2 lineup since I don't need these larger vehicles.
Kyle ...another great Video! Rivian has a bright future for sure. The dual motor looks great. They appear to doing the same as Tesla with the oil cooling. The cost of max pack is significant though and not too much extra EPA range. I think Rivian will have to figure out a way to reduce the premium on max pack a bit to increase the take rate. I love thr noises my Quad R1T and R1S make. Sometimes i turn off the music just to hear those motors. 🤓
Great video. Thanks for doing a deep dive into it! I always go to you and Tyler Townsend Travel for my Rivian info!
Fire as always
If max pack is a chemistry difference that’s great- less weight than adding modules and no interior space lost! Cool way to do it, more efficient.
so cool that you were here in Normal!! Very cool dual motor version!
Would have loved to see you but was there for a very abbreviated trip!
No worries you’re a busy guy! Have fun in Germany!
make it 3 hours long, that just means 3 cups of coffee, you go Kyle
FIIIINALLY, Chapters on Out of Spec... Thank you
Hell yeah! Nerd strong!!
Thanks for the Nerd Info
I'd definitely would be interested seeing a range test for the max pack of both r1t and r1s. Admittedly, the $10k increase from the large pack doesn't seem worth it unless you want the most range no matter what.
We'll do a range test as soon as we can! I agree, it doesn't appear to be worth the up charge for many people - will have to test it to find out if there's any secret sauce?
I don't know if I would want the heavier battery pack, and the reduced miles per KW of power used to bring along that extra weight. When you can charge for 15 minutes, and extend the range by 100 - 120 miles, is the larger battery even a requirement now?
3 different battery sizes, 3 different chemistry, 3 different charging curves?
3 different battery sizes, 3 different chemistry, 3 different charging curves?
Awesome!
Fantastic video, watching it now. Very interested in what LFP pack they go for. Tesla went with the BYD battery in Europe, which seems to rock (the most steady charging curve of any Tesla). What are your thoughts on this?
Love it!
16:35, Kyle thanks for the chuckle, Asks if he should turn left or right with a large oneway left sign in the middle of the windshield. :))
I watch your long videos late at night and fall asleep to them
thanks for all your work, when is the Rivian coming to Denmark ?
In my hometown again, hope you enjoyed your time here. Check out schooner's next time you are in town. Great food. Also we just had another supercharger open up in town. Three sites in our small town. It's crazy
I think split motor axles should have a lockable or clutch differential. A single motor per axle will be much easier to tune for off-roading. With the single motor per axle setup, you can simply over-spin the tire with less traction and use its momentum then brake the overspun wheel, and that will deliver the torque you need to get over the obstacle in your way.
Great amount of nerd info!
This is a great video and I'm only half way thru. I'm excited I decided to go with the dual motor performance for my R1S since I already have the quad motor on my R1T. I was in a unique situation to commit to the "lower" option, but seems like I made the right choice for me
Will be neat to live with both every day - looking forward to your thoughts
@@KyleConnerat this point the R1T is my daily (thanks for that btw, CCAN winner last year), so the R1S will be my wife's daily. The dual motor just seems to be perfect for that use case
Can wait to see you or Tom do a highway range test on the dual large with at tires to compare to quad
Understand better now. Max pack makes me want to get a Rivian!
RE: 45:52 - Clutch Disconnect Explanation --- with the front the primary axle then it can be towed behind an RV very nicely!
Great Video, Ty Kyle. very informative. Can someone tell me what's the efficiency of the standard battery versus the large battery. I will be ordering my R1-T soon, and I was wondering if the EPA range of 270, is realistic, or should I go with the more expensive battery. Ty
Cool beans I haven't heard that for over 20 years.......
Good stuff as always. I think the dual is really the sweet spot for most people. I wish there was a bit more cost savings but I understand it is also relative to where they are in the startup life-cycle. Do you think there will be significant impact, negative or positive, in snow mode. Most, myself included, may only ever see the challenges of winter conditions. I wonder how this will perform as it seems similar to things like Honda or Acura iVTM/SH-AWD using torque vectoring and brake torque. The Rivian, perhaps aided by smoother power application, might be noticeably better? I really want to be an R1S owner I am just not there yet ($) and the rates aren’t helping right now. Good job and you deserve a quality American Strawberry Açaí Refresher asap.
I like that you pointed out the need for lockers. Did they ever address that?
If they can ever drop the price by 10k I would grab the dual drive R1T in a heart beat. Thanks for the info! More info more fun.
yeah, just still too expensive. 10-15K cheaper for the mid pack is where I'd put it at a decent value. Curious to see cybertruck prices whenever that comes out. I wouldn't buy one (just don't like the looks/design), but still want to see.
Hi Kyle, thanks for the nerd stuff on the dual vs quad Rivian vehicles. I placed my order for n R1S in Dec 2020. Most likely I will not receive the vehicle until late 2024. When you have the time please share the battery chemistry that was used in the comparison. If I remember correctly Rivian has begun to change to using LFP on all of their vehicles this year. Also, in your opinion which drive train would be more desirable in snow and rain. Once again thanks for your now very authoritative reporting.
Very interesting video, audio is sometimes not perfect but ok if one is interested in the content. As a German I also like the background image. I did not know that there was such an empire going up to the northern sea ruled by Hannover. And not to mention that the town Jever is shown there, which is used by Chris for testing navigation systems (I think you know him, Kyle, right?).
After experiencing the trick rear diff in my Acura MDX, I love its ability to over-drive the outside rear wheel for street driving. It can be confusing when you expect on-throttle understeer but instead get a tighter line into the apex. It sounds like the quad motor mimics that torque vectoring system best? I don't know why they can't lock the rear motors through software in the quad or add a mechanical locker in the dual motor. It can't be that expensive.
Nice review, what's the weight difference between quad and dual motor?
What's will be the weight of the standard battery that's come with it?
Hey Kyle - we have been waiting for this - thank-you. I hear you on the general recommendation for dual. Some of us pre-orders can get quad and dual at (more or less) the same price. If that were your situation, would you still lean towards dual (performance)?
I'd go for quad if they're similar prices - definitely a bit louder for daily driving but other than that I think quad resale value will be higher and the range increase of dual motor isnt really needed IMO
Hey Kyle, great video. Don’t apologize for it’s length, there’s a lot to learn about the dual motor. I’m a mechanical engineer and I really like the way the enduro dual motor is designed and cooled. But I have a question for you. I’m an early preorder holder ( pre March 2021)and my R1S is scheduled for next February. If I change to dual motor I save $500 and possibly get the truck in November. $500 isn’t a big enough difference in my opinion and the warranty on dual motor isn’t as good. In this somewhat unique situation what would you do?
I am in the same situation. What did you decide?
I decided to stick with the quad motor. With only $500 off the price and getting an $8000 upgrade didn’t make sense just to get the truck (SUV) four months sooner. If I was a post March order I would go dual motor. Also this is a stupid reason but I like the yellow accents and the dual motor doesn’t have. @@bradenspear
I'm really interested in getting a dual motor R1T some day, but I'm also curious about the upcoming R2 platform. You didn't happen to hear any whispers on what that might entail did you?
i wanna see one of these do the rubican trail
Come on Kyle, this video is over an hour long talking about drivetrain!! Just kidding, I love my quad motor R1S and also love that Rivian is rocking it with this dual-motor option which will be plenty for 99% of drivers of this great vehicle.
Great Video, what are your thoughts on the R2 Dual vs. Tri-Motor? That will be my choice.
I was hoping for an 800V max pack system too. Sorta wonder if the new 800v Bosch motors are headed into the Rivian r1t quad around the time max pack hits there?
Did they give any hints there or does it sound like 800v is waiting for the R2T/S platforms?
Tempting to wait even longer as max pack keeps pushing out and 800V will have so much going for it... charging, efficiency, weight, etc.
Dual motor needs locking diffs ASAP! Until then quad Bosch motors for the win
A rear locker would have been so nice, and taken the dual motor above the quad motor to be the #1 in off-road ability due to the extra torque locked to both tires.
Did you by chance talk to them about tire wear? I’ve heard those that drive a lot in conserve with their quad R1s have seen meaningful tire wear. Do you think that will be an issue with the dual motor since it is automatically FWD over 17mph?
I had the same question come to mind when Kyle mentioned how it stays in FWD during full regen. I originally drove in conserve most of the time as I don’t need 800hp driving around down and would rather have the efficiency gain, but after seeing the tire wear on the front tires, I switched to driving in all purpose everywhere except in long highway trips
I find it sightly strange Rivian switches to FWD for steady state cruising. For all Audi e-tron products (the Q4, Q8 and GT) all switch off/disconnect their FRONT axles in the same situation to save battery.
So if I'm understanding correctly, the Max pack will be the same physical size as the Large pack, but will just contain higher capacity cells? Which also might mean it has slightly lower peak power since there's a tradeoff between power and capacity.
Would like a dual motor max pack RS1 , but can not afford one . Looking forward to your review on the max pack.
My impression is Rivian needs to do a balls out v2 quad motor setup eventually and retire the old quad to really keep it at the top of the line up. Add the optimizations and then take the performance up to 11. Absolutely everything you want for rock performance to do everything you need to just eat up moab better than any other factory truck. Whether that means lockers or additional gear reduction or better virtual locker performance I don't know, but dial it up to 11.
what do you do to reduce the wear on the clutch? i heard you mention that (32:20) but not sure what you mean, could you explain?
Hi Kyle, which one you will choose between quad motor large pack and dual motor max pack for the regular driver, specially, is it worth to choose max pack ?
When are they going to add rear wheel steering??
Oh wow. I live in Normal, IL- Would have loved to do a meet up.
I wonder if Rivian will develop a quad enduro motor setup. And when are they going to drop the bosch units.
I have an order for the quad motor, delivery estimate Jan-Feb '24. - hope they will let me change it to a dual motor. The 400mi EPA is a game changer in the category. And its off-road'ish enough for my usage.
At 18 minutes and 30 seconds, there is a huge wind turbine on the right, did you happen to find out how many MW that wind turbine is? It looks like about 2.5 MW. And to the left, there is a enclosed area, with walls on both sides, and looks almost exactly like what Tesla built in Texas to test their cars. I wonder if that is a crash test track too?
I would love to be on that test track and check out the Rivian trucks there. Glad you have a invite to that event!
@KyleConner: in your opinion, which will have better overall long term reliability of the motors and the connect / disconnect gear? QM or DM?
I am concerned because DM will always have the rear axle disconnect throughout the day. QM can be left on all purpose from here on out and tire wear would be even and no connect / disconnect.
Your thoughts?
I liked this video. I would have liked to see the under rear seat storage on the Max Pack. Rumor has been that the rear seat storage is replaced with the extra batteries.
He did just say in this video that it’s only a chemistry difference not size.
When you get stuck while going uphill, don’t give the truck a slow, smooth pedal push. From dead stop, mash pedal 1/2 way or 3/4 way and that will get truck moving again without having to back up and gain momentum.
We skipped the Max pack after weighing the difference for the cost of the 50 miles extra, and the loss of the quad motor was a bummer.
Love the 800+hp quad set-up we received in June!
Are we getting right-hand drive R1T or R1S anytime soon?
I see the test track is set up a bit differently than during the DSM days. Just to add, I still think Rivian needs to shorten the overall length of their vehicles a bit. Anyway, cool test drive. ☮
I have a quad on order before the price hike (77k) and Rivian is trying to make me change it to Dual Performance (for $76,500) to get earlier delivery (just by a few months). After driving both, what would you recommend me do Kyle?
Hey Kyle, I'm curious to know what the optimal setup is to drift a dual motor; have you messed around with that? Can you put it in Sport mode and turn off traction control?
Since they have traditional spider gears in the differential I could see the aftermarket providing a drop in geared differential like an Eaton True Trac or a Torsten. This would work seamlessly with the existing brake application to the low traction wheel to transfer torque to the other wheel. Essentially locking the differential with less required brake application. This setup would still function normally in all other situations. Honestly I’m not sure why Rivian didn’t include this. Maybe this would fully exceed the quad motor capabilities and they didn’t want to do that yet.
Strong rumors the GM HD EVs will have towing gears to increase range.
If I get it right,
Currently rivian was only offering the the quad-motor drive with the 350 miles or 140kWh pack?
It’s now adding the 270 mile LFP pack, and the max pack (2 additional options), along with the two dual motor options?
Did I get it right?
Kyle, if I'm a pre March pre-order holder should I go quad if it's only a $700 Canadian upgrade for me on my R1S? I do want the max pack but looking at your analysis of the need for a larger pack or not, it makes sense that I'll still have to charge at the same stations as the large pack and the picture gets even better when the Tesla chargers open up. I am not going to be doing any hardcore off-roading but I do drive in the snow 5-10 times per year driving back and forth from Whistler.
I have early pricing so price of dual performance vs quad is essentially the same….with that said what is the thoughts quad vs dual? Mostly or all on road use…. I like the performance i see on the quad…but noise is my main concern…will the quad feel noisy on roadtrips compared to the dual? At same price which way would you prefer or go? Thoughts? Great informational videos…thanks
Are the horsepower and torque increases for the Performance Dual-Motor available in all driving modes or just sport mode? Asked differently, is all purpose mode the same between Dual-Motor and Performance Dual-Motor?