Why Does Earth NOT Have Rings? The Roche Limit Explained
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
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We all know Saturn has planetary rings, but other planets have them too. Where they come from? How are gravity and tidal forces involved? What is the Roche limit? Let's find out.
Nick Lucid - Host, Writer, Editor, Animator
Nora Bailey - Researcher, Fact Checker
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SOURCES
History:
www.oxfordreference.com/displ...
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Articles and Info:
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solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/813...
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www2.jpl.nasa.gov/saturn/faq....
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Books:
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Scientific Papers:
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doi.org/10.1017/9781316286791...
doi.org/10.1126/science.abn1234
doi.org/10.1038/35089010
doi.org/10.1016/j.icarus.2010...
doi.org/10.1016/0019-1035(90)...
articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/p...
doi.org/10.1126/science.284.5...
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TIME CODES
00:00 Cold Open
00:48 History
02:30 Earth's Moon
03:00 Mars and Phobos
03:27 Tidal Forces Explained
04:13 Why does it break apart?
05:26 Roche Limit
06:22 Assumptions
07:05 Summary
08:04 What if Earth had rings?
08:35 Sponsor Message
09:42 Featured Comment
This explanation of tidal forces and the Roche limit really rings with me.
😆
It wasn't too big a stretch to follow along.
these puns are really starting to fall apart
@@ScienceAsylumhey I got a question, if space is expanding then what's it expanding into; what is on the outside of space. If it's nothing but space then shouldn't there be an always has been situation on the size of space? Maybe the expansion is just because matter and things hasn't always been around?
Woa.... I'm only 41 years old and we didn't know that Neptune had rings when I was born!! 😲
It's easy to forget that science is STILL happening!
Right?! So many things we take for granted now in science are much more recent discoveries than we imagine.
40 yo here and that was my same exact reaction 😂
We have rings of techno rocks orbiting the Earth.
The satellites?
Lol techno rocks. Boom boom boom chicka chicka
@@blackmewtwo3569 The moon is a satellite 🤓
@@Broockle did satellite first describe natural bodies or orbiting spacecraft?
Serious question, btw
@@lemagicbaguette1917
Just anything in Orbit.
A falling rock is a satellite until it hits the floor 😆
We were missing you Nick. Please keep uploading great videos as this one.
We've come up with a plan for the second half of the year that should allow for more videos than usual.
@@ScienceAsylum Quality before quantity. That's what I'd prefer anyway. 😅
@@iamjimgroth They always are and will be of great quality.
@@iamjimgroth Don't worry. I'm not saying I'm going to start putting out crap or anything. It's just that not all topics _require_ the same amount of effort or time. I'm trying to be better at knowing when to stop "perfecting" a video (because, at some point, there are diminishing returns and I'm wasting time/effort).
@@ScienceAsylum it can even be negative returns if you don't know when to stop.
Btw, that rock on the surface analogy was awesome. I've always had a hard time explaining tidal forces, but now I think I can. 😁
That beginning Big Bang joke never gets old! 😂
😂
I'd be cool if you made a video on Saturn's moons. The closer you stare, the more physics you find behind the cosmic beauty
I come for the science! I stay for the humor! Actually chuckled when voyager flew by and the "wheeeeeee!". Keep it up and look forward to another 10 years!
Can you imagine the night sky with rings?
Not like I could see it anyway with all the light pollution.
I'm lucky if I see a star!
If you can see the Moon, then you could see the rings. During the day, even!
can you imagine space travel with bands of debris around the equator
I live under the clouds west of Seattle, the stars are a myth
@@davidvavra9113 😆
The molecular forces part blew my mind. I was about to ask just that. Thank you for giving us the complete picture, Nick 😊
Yeah, I was reading about it and was, like, "Wait, what?! Weird."
@@ScienceAsylum Btw I just realized. Tidal forces can also be thought of as a tug of war between the gravity of the planet and the gravity of the satellite. Wait, I'm pretty sure you said something similar in your video on Lagrange points. An object halfway (gravitationally) between the moon and the earth would be equally pulled in both directions and thus remain motionless. It's the same pattern. Except that the object is well, the part of the moon closest to the planet. It's being pulled in two opposite directions: upward toward the planet and downward toward the moon.
I was wondering about this apparent contradiction regarding how gravity can tear things apart when it's only attractive. Turns out, when you have different centers of gravity (pun intended), you can get ripped apart if you get caught in the middle.
This also explains why once the moon disintegrates into rings, it becomes stable. The orbiting particles no longer have self-gravity and thus there is nothing to oppose the gravitational pull of the planet.
Hmm but wait. If self-gravity is the cause of tidal force, then how can people get spaghettified near black holes? People aren't held together by their own gravity 🤔
Fantastic video. I had only ever heard of the rigid Roche limit before, so it was really interesting to hear about the elastic limit.
Always a highlight of the day when there's a new science asylum video! Thank you for what you do sir!
This is an epic video that is sadly underrated. I watched again and just got my 10 year old to watch. He's also a fan of yours. You're the best teacher
Glad you enjoyed it! 🤓
Very good explanation of planetary rings, satellites, and the working of the Roche limit.
The details of Saturn Ring gatekeepers is an important detail added to the lecture.
Thanks,
Anthony
I love this channel, keep up the good work Nick!
Thanks! Will do! 🤓
as always, brilliant educational video!
I missed this video when it got uploaded but just heard you mention it in your recent video about CZcams changes so I went back to watch it and I agree, this video is great. I hope you will be able to stay motivated (both financially and personally) to keep making videos like this one, especially cause you said you enjoyed making this one in particular.
Thanks for the confirmation 🤓
Makes you wonder if our moon had a major impact that makes a temporary ring structure, which in turn would block a ton of sunlight, plunging us into an ice age...
This might explain the ‘great dying’. Besides a gamma ray burst I don’t think there are any good hypotheses for the cause.
@@cyrilio I would think there may be traces of it in the geologic record. But has anyone taken a look? That's what popped into my mind.
Lunar rings wouldn't block out the Sun any more than the Moon already does (barring eclipses), unless they were absurdly huge.
Hey Nick. What if you consider a system where a planet like earth has rings but has moons that keep it in check like Saturn. That would be a cool follow up video topic.
Also the rings could be pale compared to Saturn unless the rings are formed from a material similar to the moon soil.
I think a better question to address this curiosity would be; what if Saturn and all it's orbital objects (moons and rings) were scaled down to earth's size.
Would the orbits still function the same?
I would think the rings would be much shorter lived in that case.
so we start capturing near-earth asteroids, mine the metals out, and put the rest in the LaGrange points and _make_ some
Great video. I didn’t know before that Saturn’s rings will disappear one day. Love the videos with the time line. Also quite liked the voyager sound effect 😊
An electron is speeding down the highway and gets stopped by a traffic cop.
"Do you know how fast you were going?" asked the cop.
"I have no idea." replied the electron.
"You were going 98 miles per hour." said the cop.
"Great! Now I am lost!" complained the elctron.
super interesting! great explanations!
Glad you liked it 🤓
I love Your channel, mate!
Cool explanation of Roche limit!
Glad you liked it! 🤓
This video rings so true. Maybe if Mars finally proposed to Earth it'd finally have a ring.
😂
Your vids are wicked awesome! 😅
😆 Thanks!
I'm watching this for the second time. Love the use of the timeline. Great content!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🤓
Please do a video on the spin of particles why fermions have 1/2h spin and boson have 0 or 1,2h etc. Your explanation is phenomenal. Thanks
As usual, awesome video with your clear explanations! What do you think is going on with Quaoar's recently-discovered rings, which orbit outside of its Roche limit?
There could be several reasons. Most of Saturn's rings are outside their Roche limit, but Saturn has those Shepherd moons to help keep things in place. Also, collisions can cause rings. It doesn't have be tidal disruption (like with Phobos). So it's possible a couple large rocks collided near Quaoar and we just happened to catch the rings while they're still there.
Particularly good yuks this round buddy, nice. 😁👍
Thanks 👍
I think it's cool how you use the comic sans or similarly loose font for the mathematical expressions. It makes it more approachable, and like someone just scrawled it down in the middle of doing an experiment.
I _really_ like the math font I use, but it drives some people crazy. Apparently, people have different preferences. Who knew? 😉
Amazing video. 6:20 deformation also affects selfgravty forces seen form the surface
Good point.
Such awesomeness in this video!
Thanks! 🤓
Excellent video!
Thanks!
Loved the majora's mask reference there, keep up the good work
Love the majors mask reference! 😄 great video 👍
Thanks!
3:14 LOL... It took me about 10 seconds before I understood all the layers of that statement.
A Hill sphere talk would be a cool topic, maybe part of a basic orbital mechanics series.
Do you play KSP?
I considered making Hill spheres a side note in this video, but decided it should be its own video. (No, I've never used KSP.)
Great video as always! I'm curious if that limit would exist for a star? Crazy for life!
Yes, it is even mentioned in the video when he mentions the comet.
Someday soon we might have artificial rings around Earth... once a few satellites collide and their debris start a chain reaction. 😨
The downside of rings around Earth would be the reflected light providing extra heating on some portions of the globe and shadows on other portions. It would sure complicate our seasons or at least accentuate them. I'd love to hear you discuss that situation.
While I'm not a big fan of geoengineering solutions to global warming, I'd totally get behind an artificial Earth ring system as a sun shade just for the spectacle of the thing. 😄
Your channel is reminiscent of me watching Bill Nye The Science Guy as a youth. Though I appreciate your videos much more. Thank you for taking complex subjects and making them understandable for us simpletons.
Loved it.
The roche limit! It sounds cool!
Very entertaining video - as usual. ... You're dancing _rings_ around the other channels!
Appreciate the humor... keep it up
Thanks!
Majora's Mask lol Creepy AF got me! Also Enceladus feeds Saturns rings with water/ice eruptions constantly.
I have a theory.
I think CZcams knows you're one of my favorite creators. That's why it usually waits a day or two to show me your videos when they get posted, because the algorithm is trying to check to see how quickly I find out about your video on my own before recommending it to me. CZcams uses people like me as guinea pigs to gauge what to do with the metric count.
But anyways, all theories aside- this is a good upload! I've always been fascinated by rings. I remember being a kid and swearing that I saw a planet with rings in the sky when stargazing once. As an adult I can't make out the rings anymore, but at least I can recognize Saturn and Jupiter sometimes. ☺️
I like the story about how Galileo tried to communicate his discovery of Saturn's rings to Kepler through a coded message, only for Kepler to get it wrong and mistakenly read it as his discovering Mars having two moons.
so basically, the moon gets spaghettified and this is the same process that makes accretion disks out of stars around black Holes.
Yep. The black hole version is just more extreme.
5:19 why does that rock starts revolving around planet instead of falling straight (directly) into it
Because it was already revolving around the planet, the moon is already revolving around the planet.
Technically, it takes 10s of millions of years. Think of it like a time lapse: one picture every time the moon gets back to that spot in its orbit.
I only knew planetary rings existed, not their nature. Turns out the explanation is surprisingly simple.
And yes, it would be; the distances aren't cosmology-big. :)
The 10:00 length of this video made me feel nostalgia
I didn't do it on purpose. It just kind of... happened.
It's OK to exaggerate sizes for clarity, as long as this does not come across as a stretch. And, by the way, Earth used to have rings (and hobbits)...
Keep it secret, keep it safe.
Never walk up to a stranger and say:
"I love the rings around Uranus."
I actually had that happen in Middle School. One of my classmates asked my teacher why is Uranus so big? Why Uranus have rings around it? Why is Uranus blue? You can guess exactly how he pronounced that. My teacher was less than amused. If I recall correctly she sent him to the principal's office
But Uranus needs to be more explored and studied
I wonder how the fluid statellite rosche limit is calculated . Calculating the rigid one is easy but in fluid i started by taking some adsumption and did some calculation but answer was quite complex and also not correct . Can some one give the method by which its calculated it would be helpful 😊😊
Is that one of Nicole's @SoundoftheForest "It's a fancy bag" shirts?👀
Yep! That's exactly what it is 🙂
They say if you cut a planet in half and count the rings, you can tell how old it is.
😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Great explanation as usual! ❤
Thanks!
Thx for new cool video!
I have question about not current viseo subject, but I think, its fine to ask here.
Well, in some video about black holes you said that black holes may be form from rest mass or light.
Also you said that black holes can not be form if you move rock fastly.
So, where sense?
Photons have only kinetic energy and it fine for form black hole.
Rock have kinetic energy too, but from it uses only rest mass.
Plz, explaint it moment
In physics, it's often important to keep "internal" and "external" separate. Only _internal_ energy contributes to the rest mass of an object. The motion of the entire object is relative to an _external_ reference, so it doesn't count.
Nice video, I didn't know that Galileo had such a crude picture of the rings with his telescope
Yep! I felt like that was an important historical detail. By giving all the credit to Galileo, we miss out on how knowledge is gained _incrementally._
Can you make a video about oceans tides because the usual explanations seems to be wrong
PBS spacetime have done a good video on this years ago, which Nick commented on. czcams.com/video/pwChk4S99i4/video.html
whats the roche limit for sun? and are there any planets that were at one point of time within roche limit of sun, if so where are the rings of sun? and do we see rings around other starts that have planets revolving around them?
None of the planets are inside their Roche limits with the Sun, but comets have been known to pass inside it and break apart.
LOl I never exaggerate size for clarity... haha, the stuff you slide in to these talks is scandalous nick! 😂😂
😂
I know this is irrelevant but I have an urgent question. It’s more of an observation, I haven’t found anything written about about it. Is there any relation between hopf fibration and the spin and location of particles? I’d like to discuss with you
It feels like rings would be more interesting, but honestly if we got used to seeing rings, we would complain we dont have a moon while pther planets do.
One interesting fact about rings is that if earth had them, it would be plainly obvious by the naked eye that earth is a sphere. You could literally see its round shadow on the rings at night.
Curious on how the about the coefficient parts of the Roche limits was calculated and or derived.
Probably a lot of calculus and approximations.
@@jamesmnguyen sounds about right
So. Cool. This is awesome and I do want to one day visit Saturn's rings
How it started: trying to turn space junk into earth's rings
How it's going: Kessler syndrome
Nick: "I'm going to exaggerate sizes...which is something I've never, ever done before."
Emily: ...
😂
This made me remember one of your videos called "One Side of the Moon ALWAYS Faces Us. Why is that? | Tidal Locking". I made there a question, if that tidal locking has any relationship with the Moon moving away from the Earth? I hope you could help me answering that, thank you!
Yes it does. The process of tidal locking transfers energy from rotation of the body to the orbital energy. Basically, the tides caused by the moon deform the shape of the earth. As the earth rotates, the deformations "drag" the moon gravitationally. This causes the moon to gain orbital angular momentum and earth loose rotational angular momentum.
For moon, this process is already finished (it's tidally locked). For earth the process is still happening.
And since the Earth spins faster than the Moon's orbit, energy is transferred to the Moon causing its orbit to increase in energy (go higher in orbit). Eventually the Moon and the Earth will rotate at the same rate (freezing the moon in the sky). Although this will take longer than the age of our Sun so don't get excited.
@@KohuGaly wow, very interesting, thanks for your answer! And I hope that we have ever a video on that topic here in the channel.
I don't see time as part of the equation?
Presumably a fast moving object could stay intact if it's not inside the limit for very long? It seems to me that's part of why comets remain intact (usually) during a close pass.
That's true. If impact happens quickly, it won't have time to break apart. That's why we discuss this in terms of moons or "satellites" instead of objects more broadly. Decaying orbits are slow.
What makes the rings decay? The collisions between the particles?
A planetary ring is a "many-body problem." Those are notoriously unstable because everything is tugging on everything else.
Doctor Lucid! Long time no see!
Before I watch your video..
No rings here, just you wait till we get enough basura espacial allá arriba
I took a little vacation after my live stream last month. Should be back in action now though.
The story of how the rings of Uranus were discovered is quite fascinating.
😆
I think people picture moons as being solid chunks of rock that you could throw at something and have them not break apart, like a small piece of granite.
It's much more realistic to see moons as collections of small rocks and dirt that are only held together in the first place by self-gravity.
After all, that's what the surface of the Earth is in most places. There's nothing keeping dirt, sand, hills, mountains, oceans, etc. on the ground, except that they're heavy and the Earth has self-gravity.
i have a question. consider a system of 2 equal but opposite charges, there are no other forces on them , exept their electric attraction. Now if we do work on the charges and separate them , the work we have done on them will be stored as P.E and when released the P.E turns into K.E and they both come together, right. now consider if the both charges appeared out of nothing (i know matter cannot be made out of nothing , but hypothetically say it did) would they still be attracted , cause we haven't done any work on them to turn into K.E. so is there a electric field in there. does that mean for any parcticle that already existed wont interact with it?
*"Now consider if the both charges appeared out of nothing..."*
This is why hypotheticals don't work. You can't break one law of physics and then ask what would happen given the other laws of physics. It's an all or nothing kind of thing.
@@ScienceAsylum mmm, yeah your are right
You can make arguments about your thought experiment, though.
A hydrogen atom has _less_ mass than the proton and electron separated. So two separated charges have different energy than two charges close together.
If you are creating these charges together they will have a different energy than if you created them separately. You are going to have to provide that energy when you create the charges and that energy will turn into the potential between them.
You are doing the work when you create the charges.
I'd like to know more about these "unstable orbits" that destroy rings over time! Do they fall into the planet at the inner edge, drift off into space at the outer edge, or evaporate from both ends? And what's the mechanism that causes it?
It's caused by atmospheric drag and from random collisions/flybys causing changes of orbits of individual particles.
Slow falls in, fast floats out
Can you imagine how hard it would be to have stable orbiting satellites if we had rings around earth?
Ok, so maybe there would be practical problems.
Great Video!
Just wanted to add that rings don’t necessarily have to form from mass being within the Roche limit. Take the E-ring of Saturn for example. This ring is made by a moon of Saturn, Enceladus, spewing large amounts of water from its geysers on the south pole into space. This creates a ring only visible when backlit by the sun, it is however still a ring, and a pretty big one at that!
Quaoar, the briefly mentioned dwarf planet, has it’s rings well outside of it’s Roche limit, meaning the cause of the rings cant be explained with the Roche limit. The formation of the rings are still being disputed!
Yeah, I actually put a list on the screen at 2:07
@@ScienceAsylum oh, sorry. It seems like i missed that…
@@underwatermoon Understandable. It was a very brief side note. Easy to miss.
Excellent pronunciation of "Huygens"! I've been saying it wrong lo these many years.
Thanks! Someone corrected me on it years ago and I've said it this way ever since.
Orbital resonance is another cool phenomena.
True! But I don't think any video I make about it would be better than Steve Mould's video: czcams.com/video/Qyn64b4LNJ0/video.html
why dont you make cover spintronics? I request you to cover some topics like what are spin currents, spin to charge current conversion, quantum spin hall effect, ISHE etc
Ever since I was a child I have dreamt of sitting on a planet that has rings, or better still, the moon of a gas giant that had rings.
Imagine those views looking up...
It's why I play a lot of space games.
@Ryan Games are better than most of Saturn's moons, as they are on the same plane as the rings, the rings would be very difficult to see.
Yeah, living on the moon of a gas giant with rings would be so cool!!
I can you clarify what you explained on 4:21. You say when there is no gravity on the moon, the rock will drift towards mars. But don't you als o have to take the centrifugal force into account? Because even when a couple of rocks with n are close to a planet but have a velocity thats perpendicular to the gravitational force they can stay in stable orbit even if nothing holds them together because of the centrifugal force.
The rotation _can_ be a factor, but it's usually pretty small. Moons don't usually rotate all that quickly.
Do we know the timeline on Phobos? And is it soon in terms of human lifespans?
At 1:56, I mention that we expect it to happen in about 30 to 50 _million_ years... so none of us will live to see it (sadly).
@@ScienceAsylum Ah. Darn it.
The crazy guy on the left side is more genuine to me 😂
Do you think you're running into the same issues as PBSst of less exposure after your live stream?
It's possible, but I've been told that streams are a separate thing now. The same goes for Shorts. The algorithms aren't supposed to interact. I _did_ take a vacation, which put more time between my videos. I've had problems with that before.
Hi , can you explain why we are unable to see in swiming pool what phenomena? Speed of light change seems not enough to me
Huh? I can see in a swimming pool. I'm not sure what you're asking.
Make a video on Boltzmann Brain
Liked the video just cause of the Majora's Mask reference! 10/10
Does the Roche equation take in account the speed of orbit or the speed of rotation? I'd imagine a moon rotating at an insane rate might break apart slower since one side is only pulled on for a shorter time....maybe?
The mass of the moon (or satellite) and its distance from the planet determine its orbital speed, so that's already baked in. The rotational speed is not factored in though.
@@ScienceAsylum would a slow or fast rotation speed matter then?
I agreed with you I love Saturn too. Saturn is not only planet in the solar system has rings, but Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune does has rings too.
I do love space a lot. It part of my dream come true.
I also love Jupiter also. Jupiter is the king of planets.
So, are rings around moons way less stable, or the region more cramped or something like that?
It would be cool to see if we made our own rings for storage of resources like water and minerals for space based production and also for the beautiful night sky's we would see here on earth
Did I click like before watching, or did I watch it backwards and then click like? Which way did t go??
Also, "to the timeline!!"
I feel like Cody's lab is playing in the next room the entire time
Sir, I have a question: How come a black hole don't "destroy" mass when it absorb regular mass?
I know conservation of energy is a fundamental law, but if the majority of a proton/neutron's mass comes from the movement of the 3 quarks, then this mass should cease to exists when the quarks enter the singularity of a black hole.
The mass does obviously not disappear, but can u explain why?
Honestly, we don't really know anything for sure beyond the event horizon. It's possible that the singularity doesn't exist.
Only found out about this video, because of the rant in the other one. Even though I watched all your videos for years, youtube really thought this one won't be my taste.
The algorithm doesn't always make the best choices... at least not what's best for either of us anyway.
given how old planets are and how short-lived rings are, it's not easy to imagine Jupiter at some point in time having massive rings, much bigger than Jupiter. Now that would be cool
Earth knows how valuable she is. She's waiting for the perfect gentleman that will put a ring on her.
😆