Stellar video! I work in the anti-crime space, and this is the perfect marriage of my favorite audio nerd and my bread and butter. PSA: When in doubt - always always always file a dispute directly with your credit card company or bank. They’ll operate as your ally and they have full scale refund processes completely outside of the merchant / site’s control. Federal regulations protect you from being a fraud victim in various payment channels. You handled this like a champ, Dave! This is why many anti-fraud industry managers look for music / audio nerds as high potential job candidates. The attention to detail (big, small, and the blended view) is a 1:1 skill set between those career fields.
Hey Dave, this sucks. I had a similar situation getting an amazing deal on a Lectrosonics RF mic set. It was sent with USPS, and when it showed delivered, i went to the post office to ask why it wasn't delivered to me.. They pulled up a copy of the label and showed me it was addressed to a restaurant in the same city and zip code as me. I went to the restaurant and they gave me the package and showed me it was a box of crayons. I then went thru the whole ebay dispute process and was denied a couple of times. I even called the seller out on sending a box of crayons and he still denied me a refund... So at the suggestion of ebay, I returned the item, listing it as defective and mailed the box of crayons back to the fake return address the seller had one file... and since it showed as delivered, i got a refund..... So if you run into this, as silly as it sounds, the move it to do a refund that the item is not as described and just send a box of rocks back to the seller. and you'll get your money back :)
My rule is never buy anything on eBay where you cannot afford to lose the money. They tried the “third party is the actual seller” scam on me and I cancelled the order before they even pretended to ship it. Guarantees protect eBay and their insurance carriers, not you.
Thanks for tracking down the entire scam process by eBay! I lost $40 to the same scam a year ago and gave up after eBay and PayPal refused a refund. They never showed a picture but did provide a tracking number of an item shipped to my house that weighed 0.2 lbs when the item I ordered weighed ~ 16 lbs!
I have never purchased anything from Ebay because of all the horror stories that I have heard. Sorry you took one for the team, I am glad your CC company had your back.
Yes and thank you! Owning a sound company that started with nothing and gradually working our way up, we relied on purchasing anything we could at discounted prices in order to survive. Before eBay there was a local paper called the Recycler and there were times one of us would be actually waiting at the 7-11 for the Thursday 6am delivery to hopefully find gear we needed for the show coming up on the weekend. That and doing the Hollywood pawn shop rounds. So trudging the for bargains and oddities in less than shiny places is a familiar adventure for me. What tripped me up, I feel, was I felt tricked by eBay giving me a false sense of security on a purchase I would not have done or not for their promotion of the money back guarantee
Thanks Dave... I'm a big purchaser on Ebay for 10 years.... never a serious problem like you had... I only purchase inside the US 99percent of the time and only from sellers with a high rating.... I will be more cautious from now on! thanks for crawling through the mud for us Dave.
Thank you for putting this up. I went through a similar problem with Amazon and it took nearly 3 months (over 12 hours on hold) and talked to 8 customer service supervisors and finally got results. Internet businesses are sketchy at best and shady at worst.
I buy damaged ones and I saw that one pop up. I did report that listing as a scam to eBay. Truly sucks that you had to fight so hard to get this resolved.
I am remiss to overly generalize. If you look at a corporation like Costco where they have a very robust return policy as well as they will refund you money if they sell the product you bought within 30 days at a lower price. And then compare that to a company like eBay that tends to be a somewhat polluted feeding ground for scammers mixed in with a useful service allowing people to buy and sell directly rather than dump unwanted things in the landfills. I know as a seller of random stuff on eBay and also having a store on Amazon for the SoundTools products that I design and manufacture, I can say from personal experience that Amazon has very strict policies for sellers and even minor mishaps or late shipments can have significant negative ramifications. This is not to say that Amazon is not also riddled with issues and scammers but my experience has been that Amazon holds themselves to a higher level and tries to be more proactive whereas eBay tends to be less consistent and more reckless. But that's just one person's experience and should be taken with a grain of salt. I do believe that if everyone that has had a bad experience on eBay was to fight it until resolution, that the cost to eBay would be sufficient for eBay to impose some improved practices. Or perhaps I'm just a confused optimist
@@DaveRat ... but I am generalizing, and not specifying "all online retail" exclusively. Having said that, Amazon as a Giant Corporation gets plenty of trans-human individual advantages the peasantry doesn't have, and mostly because they know you're not going to have resources to force them to redress issues. I heard the Devialet Phantom in a slick little demo room they had set up at a train station in Montreal years ago. Made me think "if Bose was made by Genelec" sort of highs/mids, into a car stereo reflex low end. Which isn't to say they were bad, given their size. Nothing stood out as weird, memorable or special, which may be good .....
Their policy screwed me as a seller. I sold a graphics card that was still under factory warranty. The buyer told me he received it and damaged the card while trying to mine Ethereum with it which voids the factory warranty. He then asked for a refund , I explained to Ebay and showed the messages that the buyer admitted breaking the card but Ebay refunded him and are still chasing me for the money to this day
That is interesting, and good detective work. Obviously the scammers are aware of the details, I'm surprised they couldn't get the weight right, thankfully they screwed that up which helped your case. I'm even concerned selling on eBay, I used to a lot long ago, and while I haven't had much of an issue, all it takes is someone to claim I shipped a box of sand and there's nothing I can do about it.
Agreed and I think that highlights the fundamental issue which is that eBay has broken our trust by not being vigilant and supporting those of us that are honest and ethical
I have listened to a Devialet in a store, and for the price I was not surprised at all, disappointed, it sounded average, plus it’s in mono… maybe the acoustics were not at their advantage in the store, but I was expecting something else for a speaker this price… Can’t wait to see your review
they're not bad in stereo, they're pretty good tbh, but only at background spl...once you crank them a bit the thd kicks in and some change in FR/compression stuff...a relative has a pair....basically like an upgraded homepod...definitely not worth it at all.
Interesting, what I find most curious about them is they are the closest thing to a full range relatively high output point source of any speaker I've seen. There are a lot of people that believe point sources are the answer to sound reproduction and if you've watched any of my videos on real sounding speakers you'll know that my take is that point sources are incapable of reproducing realistic sound. But from a test perspective having a high volume point source is quite interesting
I've been on eBay for over 20 years. One of the primary rules I follow is to never buy from no/low feedback sellers, or from sellers who might have higher feedback but a low % score (under 98.5% positive). This will protect you from the majority of dishonest sellers (though not all). There are also dishonest buyers. I try to avoid these by only selling with fixed price listings that include a best offer, and then rejecting offers from buyers that look sketchy. Recently I've also decided to stop selling items that aren't of a high enough value to pay for tracked shipping (e.g. video games), since if a buyer decides to lie and say they never received the item, if you didn't send it tracked then ebay will always decide the 'item not received' dispute against you.
Agreed and I think that misses the primary issue that I have with eBay. It's the deceptive advertising of money back guarantee that they don't fulfill that gives a false sense of security. If they said buyer beware only buy from people with good status, then all good. But eBay is promoting a general feeling that you're safe when you're not and then supporting the scam or fraud. I know they'll be scammers and we can defend against them but putting out a fake safety net is what I take issue with
So glad someone is exposing this eBay fraud, it is widespread. I had something very similar happen to me. Unfortunately, my CC company was not as kind and I ended up out the money and no product, really wish I had used another brand of card. Lesson learned: on eBay it is buyer beware and eBay will not help a buyer in almost any circumstance.
I only can say “thank you” for your patience, curiosity and drive. I recently went through a situation like this but… I lost the fight. My point is if most of us would do what you just did (but we don’t) this freaking companies would have more respect for the customers. Freaking eBay! Freaking Ali express!
Perhaps when this vid goes public we can get enough hits to get eBay to do a policy change! Doubtful but hey, Nuetrik dropped the price of tools and is offering free 3d downloads of the tools, after I did a vid, It's not like it's not an obvious flaw to their policy
I had a similar situation years ago. The eBay automated dispute resolution process is designed to support fraudsters. eBay is only concerned about getting their cut and not whether any product is ever delivered. I don't buy from eBay much, but if I do it has to be a seller with thousands of sales and a 99% or better rating.
Yes and I probably should take that more cautious approach but also part of me wants to challenge things that are broken and push the limits a bit. Overly cautious is nowhere near as fun I was taking some risks and occasionally getting knocked down
You are here with me and just by commenting and watching the video you're elevating its impact The more people that see this and react the more probable this drop in a bucket could influence a policy change by eBay
You skipped the last requirement in the Ebay money back guarantee... Orders over $750 dollars require a proof of receipt signature which the scammer does not have and so Ebay should have refunded you for that reason alone...
That brings up the other loophole in eBay money back guarantee deceiving claim. That 750 appears to only apply to the sale price but this item had a significant shipping cost which doesn't count towards that 750 allowing the scammer to avoid the signature
I wish to achieve this level of calm ::) cool little speaker though, really interested in the (hopefully) upcoming review if it is still scheduled, cheers!
Yes I'm still working on it The little wedge is actually done but I need to work on the little miniature subwoofer that goes along with it and I've been busy with other projects but it will come
If the price is so discounted as to be an amazeballs deal, lock it in as a scam. Had a similar scam but luckily I poked holes in Ebay's terms of service and threatened to report their practice to our ACCC. The seller forgot to send a package to my very very small town I live in. Got my refund.
Agreed but that's not really the point. The issue is in my opinion that if there is clear fraud, and a clearly stated policy of money back guarantee, that siding with the fraud should not be legally allowed. It is the deception of the fraudulent claim of money back guarantee that I consider to be the issue. Also I've had good luck buying highly discounted items that have issues that the owners don't disclose which I'm fine with to some degree. I bought an amazing infrared fluke camera at a great price and when I got it The control board didn't work and you couldn't move the cursor and do anything. In the auction they stated that they didn't know how well it worked so they sold it fair and square. I opened it up plugged the ribbon in and now I have a wonderful fluke infrared camera.
F eBay. I quit selling when they said they were "streamlining" their payment processing. So instead of getting paid immediately when someone bought it now, it would now take a week. That's right, they went from bullet train to steam engine in their payment processing and called it "streamlining"... F'n clowns.
Yeah I was a little sketch on that but I figured like impulse 60 said that slowing down the payment process would help reduce online fraud by not paying fraudulent sellers until everything was confirmed. I support a safe for environment but it seems that the plan didn't work
I have always had good luck with eBay refunds. It is a tossup over who is worse about scammers, eBay or Amazon Marketplace. Amazon sellers will list stuff and non-returnable, and those are very hard to dispute. Make sure you check the return policy before you buy, it will be just a couple lines under the price. For eBay, it is best to make sure they are well rated and actually read the ratings to make sure they are not fake.
Agreed on all of that and I believe that's kind of sidestepping the actual issue which I think is important. My focus in doing this video even after I received a full refund from the credit card company was to highlight the deceptive claim by eBay of a money back guarantee, when in reality there is a loophole which allows them to not refund the money and still earn the sellers fees. Rather than putting the blame on the purchaser for not being cautious enough in a mine field of scammers, I believe our efforts maybe more beneficial by holding the company that facilitates the scammers to be accountable.
Yikes and same. I blame eBay for false advertising and they should be held accountable.and yes, I have been screwed by buyers as well. eBay should change its guarantee to Give it a shot, maybe you'll get lucky
Yeah I don't really want to keep one of those speakers but if I can get a good enough deal I'll buy it and test it and just resell it for similar money to what I bought it for. I just don't want to really be stuck with it and I'm not so interested that I'm willing to take a big loss
I just lost 200 USD buying Airpods in Amazon and USPS never delivered saying someone picked them up at the post office... What? It wasn't me!!! Thinking twice before buying on line again. Going back to the store and paying cash... The old school
Never ever ever leave money in the bank accounts that are associated with your ebay. Move the money immediately or one day a scam buyer will screw you and ebay will side with them.
If delivered to wrong address, it might be the shipping company's fault and not the seller. I ordered 3 items totalling $300 and the delivery man sent me a text saying my orders were delivered, but didn't send me a picture and drove off. I saw the delivery truck as he was leaving and ran outside and spotted my 3 packages 📦 delivered to my next door neighbor's door. I caught them in time before they were able to take them all in the house. Sometimes it is the individual delivery drivers that are at fault for lost or misdelivery to wrong location. I am not confident in the employees of this company and to avoid getting the same company and same delivery person, I shop local and pick up my merchandise from local stores. I had no way to report the driver, but if I do decide to order. I will make sure to way for delivery at the curb ( to make sure they don't make same mistakes again)!
As I show in the video, when I go to FedEx and track the package and input my address, FedEx says that my address was not the address that the shipper sent it to. Additionally when I contacted the seller and inform them there was sent to the wrong address they never responded again
I am glad your shipment issue was resolved and you got your refund back. Persistence and constantly getting on them and the credit card about the refund on the lost item worked in your favor. Glad you did not give up even when they gave you the run around!
OH MY GOSH!!! I LITERALLY WENT THROUGH THIS EXACT SCAM!! $600 gone for me. I had all the documents and everything. I even tracked down the address the package was supposedly delivered to. They of course had no idea about any package. So frustrating. I was in the process of disputing with my credit card company, but I left the country on a scheduled trip and had to let it go.
I had this happen. The seller changed the delivery address and I never received the item purchased. Same scam but eBay did refund. But buying online isn’t safe anymore. Better luck in the future man.
@@DaveRat I took screen shots of the change of address from Dhl’s shipping website and sent that to eBay. It took a couple weeks to convince them though. At first they denied the claim and then I had to appeal it and when I got to the second agent then that person approved the refund. but I don’t really trust online sales anymore. There are a lot of thieving rings on Amazon eBay and Facebook marketplace, they steal stuff from stores and wherever; and then they list it on those website and sell the stolen items.
eBay has gotten sketchy for sure. I bought some equipment through eBay and a week later the exact same add was posted again through a different seller. A month or so later the same. On a side note I did get to hear one of those speakers… They’re impressive for their size. Not my cup of tea but interesting.
Yeah I,d like to hear them. My take is that the value of the speakers Will not be the actual sound quality but rather the amount of sound for their size and the aesthetic look as a talking piece in an artistic way. I expect them to be sparkly bright clean and lots of low end but not necessarily what I want to listen to. Hopefully I'll find one at a reasonable price and test soon
Something similar happened to me over $75 never got the product. Never even shipped. Tried many times to get my money back. It took me a good year before I had to use ebay again to sell.
WOw! What a scam!!! And it's a shame that the creditcard company has to pay, instead of the seller/eBay... Glad you looked into this, Dave! :-) Thanks!
The credit card company actually forced eBay to pay them back! They have a lot more power than I do and based on the information I supplied eBay ended up having to pay
Dealing with this exact thing right now. I've been a reseller on eBay for years but recently their support has really gone down the tubes. My hubby (has his own account) purchased a drone that he never received from someone who was obviously a scam seller. She changed the address & out in a bogus tracking number and we never received the item. We have been back and forth with eBay trying to get a refund. But they are siding with the seller because they uploaded tracking and it says delivered.
I'm so sorry to hear that and I fully feel your frustration. eBay's lack of understanding and responses are absolutely absurd. I hope you paid with a credit card company. It may be worth it to reach out to the credit card company early and find out what info they're going to want from eBay. Also I highly recommend you screenshot everything. After the fact eBay deletes the sellers and the auctions and all kinds of info that you can't get back. I don't have a copy of the original auction because I didn't screenshot it and that was a bummer.
I’m full time Amazon and eBay. 18 years. It’s my only income. I aged early doing this crap. Worse than waiting tables. I think they should both be shut down. 18 years and I still don’t know if I have to offer free returns and shipping or not, at Amazon. Depends on the rep du jour. I wake up everyday wondering if my account is at risk of deactivation for something beyond my control while Jeff Besos vacations in the South of France. eBay is just a lying sack of dog poop. Professional liars.
I have compassion for your frustrations. And personally with my own companies work to return and align with high quality customer service and warranty adventures. And do my best to support other companies that do the same.
ebay was good about 20 years ago , great collector community, but now members prevented from talking to each other, sellers can't give buyers bad feedback (so often they just don't bother to pay) its a cesspit of junk now. so many sellers with multiple IDs all in China and don't speak a word of English but pretending to be in UK or USA etc.
Been on the opposite side where someone purchased my item with a digital download. They claimed it didn't have the digital download and refunded the item. Now I am out $300 and ebay won't do anything about it. These cases are tough but in your case it should have been obvious from the start.
Bummer. I realize there will be scammers but it is ebays responsibility to protect sellers and buyers on their platform Not to mention ebays deceptive money back claim
This was so obviously a scam right from the beginning. If you fall for this you deserve to be scammed or have a run around getting your money back. The saying 'if it sounds too good to be true it's probably a con' has been around for a very long time. Wise up people.
My issue is not with the scammer. The issue is the deceptive advertising by eBay saying money back guarantee. This false promise states that the buyer is protected when actually the reality is that eBay's policy is buyer beware. If eBay's policy and guarantee was "buyer beware because we're not going to help you", then we would be all good. It puzzles me why people are okay with deceptive advertising and make excuses of why that is okay to do That's insane to me. I own a company that manufactures audio equipment and our money back guarantee and warranty for life is something that we stand behind and it is extremely important to our credibility. But based on your perspective we should just say that and then not do it and everybody will be fine with it and that's okay right?
When I first saw this video in my subscriptions I thought it was a Jim Browning video! These practices are atrocious and it's crazy how long it took for you to get your money back. If you end up actually buying the Devialet speaker, please consider sending it to Erin's Audio Corner or to Audio Science Review. They have a Klippel Nearfield Scanner (100k$ measurement system) that will return the most accurate data for loudspeakers you can get (CEA-2034 compliant). Would love to see a detailed measurement report for this speaker!
Interesting and I will ponder that. What I find most exciting about the speaker is that it is a fairly high volume full range point source which is very uncommon. I'm not really as interested in what it's technical specs are as much as what I could use it for to demonstrate audio phenomenon
Stopped using eBay nearly 20 years ago. It's a cesspool of rip off artists more often than not (in my experience with any of the items I've been interested in). Stick with local marketplaces and reputable brokers!
I've had reasonably good results on eBay and found it to be useful in locating some items. I found this experience to be especially unsettling. I fully understand there hard dishonest scammers to be wary of, that is not the issue for me in this situation though. The issue is the deceptive promotion of money back guarantee by eBay with wording that provides a loophole such that they do not have to fulfill it but can still earn seller's fees. I created this video with a probably false and hopeless optimism of putting pressure on eBay to close that loophole And also to help other people understand how the scam works
@@DaveRat Certainly. I agree there is legitimate business occurring, but I personally decided not to spend my time with that level of risk because of a very similar experience where I was not protected with full evidence of the fraud. Luckily my value was less. I've had much better luck with other platforms that allow used or third party sellers that really enforce their policies (amazon for one). Of course you have to go where the product you're seeking is. I'm upset for you! With such clear evidence I don't see how they could deny, even after that second flag that removed their account.... That just baffles me. Have you gotten a rep on the phone yet? Sometimes that's what it really takes otherwise the emails just bounce around in the void causing all kinds of phase cancellation! 😂
Yeah I ended up getting a full refund from the credit card company that back charged eBay so all is done. I just wanted to share it to help others in their quest and hopefully put pressure on eBay too improve their enforcement
@@DaveRat well hopefully they read some of these comments and can see that your experience has been communicated to many, and that you're not the only one facing these problems. In my case I may be overly cautious but it's still costing them any potential business from me! As for those speakers. I think they're going to be extremely room dependent based on the complexity of the engineering. May sound good in a small room and drop LF off fast the larger it gets. Very Bose+esque, in that the complexity of the design seems like it would introduce variable dependent response and diminish transient response by over reliance on resonance or opposing force (think direct radiating reflex vs. opposing horn loaded bandpass). Interesting idea but I'd be curious to see how they perform at different volume spaces. It doesn't seem like there's any way to build significant pressure for larger space without more surface area as many open baffle designs rely on. I know this isn't exactly open, but the physical size and unique design seems like it would be quite limiting. I await your trusted review, and opinions! Keep on keeping on!
/Chuckle....And Ive been on Ebay for 20 Years with Perfect results and Zero issues...its in how much you know and how you play the game mate. That's not to say things havent occurred but done right one should Never lose out. /shrug Experience for all in life are diff eh.
I had the very same issue with a camera, apparently if the sender just sends anything to a wrong address and it arrives ebay will favor the seller! Ebay is no longer a place to buy high end items, cheap stuff maybe but expensive items too much risk!
Well I'd have to test to know for sure but I also know that extremely small high power amplifiers are readily available. The key aspect to know is that when 1100 w is claimed they are not claiming 1100 watts continuous but rather the ability to output 1,100 w over a short period of time it is compatible with music dynamics
@@DaveRatThanks it’s always good to get a reply from you, what bothers me is how long that power supply will deliver 1.1kw not long I suspect. But it would be interesting to get your hands on one and test.
Well, 1.1kw or 1100 watts is less than a hair style or toaster. And unlike audio where the 1100 w peaks only need to happen for short periods of time a hair dryer or toaster is actually continuous power and would need a much thicker cable in the speaker. A typical wall outlet in the US will supply 1.8kW to 2.4kW. And for 1.8 kilowatts You're the only need 16 gauge wire
I lost a lot of money to scammers on eBay. Why did I lose money? Because of eBay itself. Would not have been an issue except for eBay's intervention. A scammer's *best* friend.
Money laundering guarantee! The scam they pulled with me was similar except they intentionally sent broken equipment, handled the return over messages instead of an eBay return, waited out the 60 days then ghosted me. eBay fully washed their hands of it. The account is still up and doing LOTS of business. Also, I'm dying to work with your team! Early career A1/A2 in LA. Will be getting in touch with Admin@RS unless there's a better way
Hi Dave, thanks for the info. Just recently I was looking at some mixing desks on eBay and found an Allen Heath SQ6, a Behringer X32 and a Midas M32 all for around 250UK pounds each, a fraction of what they should sell for. I did notice all three sellers had 0 feedback but I did nearly order one, like you thinking I would be safe with the money back Ebay guarentee. The listings did disappear before I ordered. I did wonder if a scam how it would work.
Yes you hit the nail on the head and that's exactly my biggest issue with this, the deceptive safety that eBay promotes with the guarantee that they don't follow through with.
Had almost the same experience with a pretty expensive camera, though the tracking was only to my zip code. The weight was also incorrect. Ultimately, eBay dragged their feet too long, and only after my credit card company refunded me did they tell me that it would have been resolved in my favor. But they really don’t like you going outside of their resolution center. I felt protected by the “money back guarantee” as well, and went against my better judgement. So, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Yes I've got good deals and crappy deals on eBay. Sometimes I take the risk. Once I bought a very expensive tester that was too good to be true and when I got it it was intermittent which made it somewhat useless and then I opened it and fixed it which made it wonderful. I was hoping this would be that kind of deal and the money back guarantee gave me a false sense of security.
I don’t buy anything through eBay anymore. I bought my Devialet speakers direct from the company, no third party is ever going to be able to onsell these. Tracked from manufacturer in France. I hope you are able to get one to review but even getting one 2nd hand is not easy.
So it was literally just your CC Company that stepped in huh, that's crazy. I can't believe Ebay is actually that scammy. So like, in reality for them to actually honour their money back guarantee, what would someone have to do I wonder lol?
The problem ebay has at the moment they have tried to automate everything. I am betting no human even looked at your case and the second you requested most likely went to some 3rd world help desk were they just followed the same rules as the computer did on the first one.
Yeah I haven't tried those yet. I can imagine that counterfeit products would be even harder to get money back then something more obvious like what happened to me
All I can say is WOW. I thought Ebay was a legit company. I have not had any negative issues but again Buyer Beware! So many scammers in the virtual world. Watch your 6....
Yeah I'm not as bummed about the scammers as I am about the false advertising of the money back guarantee from eBay. In my opinion I am trusting eBay to protect me from the scammers and eBay claims to protect me with a money back guarantee. That false advertising or deceptive advertising is where my real issue lies with this
I had a similar issue but fortunately I had paid with Paypal who took less than 24 hours to fully refund the money. From then on no purchase will be made if the seller does not accept Paypal.
Very cool . I had issues with PayPal in the past but that was when PayPal was part of eBay. The bigger issue to me is the deceptive advertising aspect. I can afford the money lost, what I want is a safe honest place to buy with confidence. Yeah, pipe dream. But I can still push for it
Did you try to reach out to fedex? I had similar issue and was able to get a letter from fedex stating that the tracking number was not delivered to the address listed on the order. After submitting that I got the refund. Also anything over 500, request it be shipped insured. The scammers wont do it, because the courier will investigate and Trace the package.
Great advice and thank you! I will definitely be more cautious And those are great suggestions. Additionally, part of me is shouting "why is this okay for eBay to be deceptive and offer false trust and confidence?" I fully understand and relate to the buyer beware scenario but in the bigger picture eBay's dishonest money-back guarantee claim is what took me down this rabbit hole
Yes having the charge back as a second line of defense proved wonderful The issue for me centered around the false advertising of the money back guarantee which to be honest, without that I would not have made the purchase but it gave me a false sense of security
I've had good experiences I used to buy and sell LGB trains and had much success with that. Also owning a sound company, it's almost necessary to seek out parts for older gear and such and use platforms like eBay to keep some of the vintage gear running.
It Happened to me ! I sent my money to that seller and my headphone cables never arrived!! Thanks Dave Rat! Take some time our and pet yourself because I can’t go out and pet you for you :)
This should have been obvious to eBay. No human customer service was needed. The system should have detected a 0-sales account versus a 24-year loyal account and immediately ruled in your favor. This is the problem with hiring woefully undertrained customer service staff who have no common sense or investigative skills: you burn out your loyal customers because your inept customer service organization can’t manage do its job properly. I’ve seen multiple companies let their customer service organization torch loyal, high-value customers without a thought.
Interesting and I didn't think about that angle. Feels like corporate oversight basically says to grab the eBay fees and resist refunds at all costs because it makes them more money in the long run
Great video man!! Extremely interesting. Seems like ebay went down the drain in past few years. I wanted to add something. Couldn't you find that house somehow and visited it and asked the folks what was in that package?
@DaveRat try Google street view. I just don't understand how they sent that package to the wrong address but ebay still literally tracked it and having your info still denied the refund
Yeah, I show it in the vid where eBay only requires it to be sent to the correct zip code but does not check the proper address. FedEx only shares the zip code sent to and won't share the address associated with the tracking #.
The video claims " eBay supports fraud" I give clear proof that it does. I am not complaining, just stating a fact. I own a company tha manufacturers audio products andt offers lifetime warranty. eBay states there is a money back guarantee of you do not receive your product. Should eBay or my company be held accountable for fulfilling our statements or claims or is it a buyer beware world where eBay and I do not need to honor our claims? eBay supports fraud, I support honesty and integrity, what do you support?
@@DaveRat I absolutely agree with you. However I also know what a cesspit eBay has become. I'm an eBay seller as well as a buyer and I will never buy from a seller with zero feedback. Several days ago I also cancelled a sale from a buyer with zero history. With no history the likelihood of the buyer pulling some non receipt scam is higher than your average eBayer, and the reverse for buying from an unproven seller. It's just what the world has become my man. People out to take advantage of others at any chance they can. It's a sad fact, unfortunately. Best wishes.
Yeah I ended up getting money back to the credit card company. But before that I wanted to try and follow and test the integrity of "eBay's money back guarantee " Integrity test fail
I'm 55 seconds into a video discussing scams and up come some specs. Dubious specs. Why? Glad you asked. 108dB SPL.... measured how? At what percent total harmonic distortion? Freq response of 14 to 27k...how much roll-off at the ends of the spectrum? 108 dB? 1100 watts RMS... well now, RMS implies they'll deliver forever, but I have a feeling that's some sort of instantaneous peak, just after they catch on fire. Let's see what happens. :-)
Well. no joy on how the advertised specs matched up with the product recieved, but I have one more tidbit. When I'm dealing with established vendors who have good reps, and I'm in a hurry, I look at dynamic range. It is NOT the be-all, end-all spec, but it tells me in one swoop how an item compares to others, and good numbers here...generally...indicate build quality, longevity, etc. YMMV.
ebay closed my account because a buyer claimed item was not as described and returned probably an empty box, to not my address. i never got it back, USPS couldn't find it.
Aaargh, so sorry and that sucks. Yes that kind of shi is why I posted this video. The only reason eBay hasn't changed their policies is there is not enough backlash
Stellar video! I work in the anti-crime space, and this is the perfect marriage of my favorite audio nerd and my bread and butter.
PSA: When in doubt - always always always file a dispute directly with your credit card company or bank.
They’ll operate as your ally and they have full scale refund processes completely outside of the merchant / site’s control.
Federal regulations protect you from being a fraud victim in various payment channels.
You handled this like a champ, Dave!
This is why many anti-fraud industry managers look for music / audio nerds as high potential job candidates. The attention to detail (big, small, and the blended view) is a 1:1 skill set between those career fields.
That comment just made my day thank you!
@@DaveRat thats why I suggested you to do this video public haha !.
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Good word. Thanks for the advice! I will remember this if I'm ever in this situation.
Yes, thank you for this! Sounds like a fun job. Thanks for doing what you do 👊🏽
This rant had the kindest tone ever! You must be the most patient person on the entire planet! Glad you got re-imbursed too!
Thank you Kelvin! And after many years of touring with major rock bands I have become a professional fireball handler!
How do I become a bigger Dave fan overtime? He keeps uploading videos of advocating for the small guy in life. Love the video Dave!
Thank you!!!
Hey Dave, this sucks. I had a similar situation getting an amazing deal on a Lectrosonics RF mic set. It was sent with USPS, and when it showed delivered, i went to the post office to ask why it wasn't delivered to me.. They pulled up a copy of the label and showed me it was addressed to a restaurant in the same city and zip code as me. I went to the restaurant and they gave me the package and showed me it was a box of crayons.
I then went thru the whole ebay dispute process and was denied a couple of times. I even called the seller out on sending a box of crayons and he still denied me a refund...
So at the suggestion of ebay, I returned the item, listing it as defective and mailed the box of crayons back to the fake return address the seller had one file... and since it showed as delivered, i got a refund.....
So if you run into this, as silly as it sounds, the move it to do a refund that the item is not as described and just send a box of rocks back to the seller. and you'll get your money back :)
Helpful and cool. Ha, the scam in reverse to undo the scam!
My rule is never buy anything on eBay where you cannot afford to lose the money. They tried the “third party is the actual seller” scam on me and I cancelled the order before they even pretended to ship it.
Guarantees protect eBay and their insurance carriers, not you.
Agreed
Thanks for tracking down the entire scam process by eBay! I lost $40 to the same scam a year ago and gave up after eBay and PayPal refused a refund. They never showed a picture but did provide a tracking number of an item shipped to my house that weighed 0.2 lbs when the item I ordered weighed ~ 16 lbs!
So sorry to hear that at least you didn't lose too much money. Thank you for hanging out!
I have never purchased anything from Ebay because of all the horror stories that I have heard. Sorry you took one for the team, I am glad your CC company had your back.
Yes and thank you!
Owning a sound company that started with nothing and gradually working our way up, we relied on purchasing anything we could at discounted prices in order to survive.
Before eBay there was a local paper called the Recycler and there were times one of us would be actually waiting at the 7-11 for the Thursday 6am delivery to hopefully find gear we needed for the show coming up on the weekend.
That and doing the Hollywood pawn shop rounds.
So trudging the for bargains and oddities in less than shiny places is a familiar adventure for me.
What tripped me up, I feel, was I felt tricked by eBay giving me a false sense of security on a purchase I would not have done or not for their promotion of the money back guarantee
Thanks Dave... I'm a big purchaser on Ebay for 10 years.... never a serious problem like you had... I only purchase inside the US 99percent of the time and only from sellers with a high rating.... I will be more cautious from now on! thanks for crawling through the mud for us Dave.
Yes, I overlooked the seller rating but this was not an out of country sale. The item was located in the US
Be aware that eBay removes negative ratings from fraudulent sellers. Was why i quit
Thank you for putting this up. I went through a similar problem with Amazon and it took nearly 3 months (over 12 hours on hold) and talked to 8 customer service supervisors and finally got results. Internet businesses are sketchy at best and shady at worst.
Agreed
I buy damaged ones and I saw that one pop up. I did report that listing as a scam to eBay. Truly sucks that you had to fight so hard to get this resolved.
Interesting and that's super cool. I've done that with other types of gear where I buy broken and fix and have a collection of parts.
Wow Dave. Thanks for the heads up and sorry for the scam!
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This same scam happened to my dad a while back, eBay was no help but PayPal came through. Glad it worked out for you in the end, Dave!
Glad to hear your dad got sorted and yes people are telling me PayPal is proactive that's good to hear and helpful
@@DaveRatYup -- I always pay with PayPal on eBay (or any site where there are random people selling, like Discogs). Much faster resolutions.
Corporations have too much power. They know nobody will sue them - and act accordingly, when in reality they're enabling criminal activity.
I am remiss to overly generalize. If you look at a corporation like Costco where they have a very robust return policy as well as they will refund you money if they sell the product you bought within 30 days at a lower price.
And then compare that to a company like eBay that tends to be a somewhat polluted feeding ground for scammers mixed in with a useful service allowing people to buy and sell directly rather than dump unwanted things in the landfills.
I know as a seller of random stuff on eBay and also having a store on Amazon for the SoundTools products that I design and manufacture, I can say from personal experience that Amazon has very strict policies for sellers and even minor mishaps or late shipments can have significant negative ramifications.
This is not to say that Amazon is not also riddled with issues and scammers but my experience has been that Amazon holds themselves to a higher level and tries to be more proactive whereas eBay tends to be less consistent and more reckless.
But that's just one person's experience and should be taken with a grain of salt.
I do believe that if everyone that has had a bad experience on eBay was to fight it until resolution, that the cost to eBay would be sufficient for eBay to impose some improved practices.
Or perhaps I'm just a confused optimist
@@DaveRat ... but I am generalizing, and not specifying "all online retail" exclusively. Having said that, Amazon as a Giant Corporation gets plenty of trans-human individual advantages the peasantry doesn't have, and mostly because they know you're not going to have resources to force them to redress issues.
I heard the Devialet Phantom in a slick little demo room they had set up at a train station in Montreal years ago. Made me think "if Bose was made by Genelec" sort of highs/mids, into a car stereo reflex low end. Which isn't to say they were bad, given their size. Nothing stood out as weird, memorable or special, which may be good .....
Their policy screwed me as a seller. I sold a graphics card that was still under factory warranty. The buyer told me he received it and damaged the card while trying to mine Ethereum with it which voids the factory warranty. He then asked for a refund , I explained to Ebay and showed the messages that the buyer admitted breaking the card but Ebay refunded him and are still chasing me for the money to this day
Yes it's unfortunate practices of supporting fraud need to be addressed
That is interesting, and good detective work. Obviously the scammers are aware of the details, I'm surprised they couldn't get the weight right, thankfully they screwed that up which helped your case. I'm even concerned selling on eBay, I used to a lot long ago, and while I haven't had much of an issue, all it takes is someone to claim I shipped a box of sand and there's nothing I can do about it.
Agreed and I think that highlights the fundamental issue which is that eBay has broken our trust by not being vigilant and supporting those of us that are honest and ethical
I have listened to a Devialet in a store, and for the price I was not surprised at all, disappointed, it sounded average, plus it’s in mono… maybe the acoustics were not at their advantage in the store, but I was expecting something else for a speaker this price…
Can’t wait to see your review
they're not bad in stereo, they're pretty good tbh, but only at background spl...once you crank them a bit the thd kicks in and some change in FR/compression stuff...a relative has a pair....basically like an upgraded homepod...definitely not worth it at all.
B&W Zeppelin FTW
Interesting, what I find most curious about them is they are the closest thing to a full range relatively high output point source of any speaker I've seen.
There are a lot of people that believe point sources are the answer to sound reproduction and if you've watched any of my videos on real sounding speakers you'll know that my take is that point sources are incapable of reproducing realistic sound.
But from a test perspective having a high volume point source is quite interesting
My take is that audiophile speakers are pretty much art that costs a lot of money and also makes sound.
B&W does make some beautiful art
I've been on eBay for over 20 years. One of the primary rules I follow is to never buy from no/low feedback sellers, or from sellers who might have higher feedback but a low % score (under 98.5% positive). This will protect you from the majority of dishonest sellers (though not all).
There are also dishonest buyers. I try to avoid these by only selling with fixed price listings that include a best offer, and then rejecting offers from buyers that look sketchy. Recently I've also decided to stop selling items that aren't of a high enough value to pay for tracked shipping (e.g. video games), since if a buyer decides to lie and say they never received the item, if you didn't send it tracked then ebay will always decide the 'item not received' dispute against you.
Agreed and I think that misses the primary issue that I have with eBay.
It's the deceptive advertising of money back guarantee that they don't fulfill that gives a false sense of security.
If they said buyer beware only buy from people with good status, then all good.
But eBay is promoting a general feeling that you're safe when you're not and then supporting the scam or fraud.
I know they'll be scammers and we can defend against them but putting out a fake safety net is what I take issue with
So glad someone is exposing this eBay fraud, it is widespread. I had something very similar happen to me. Unfortunately, my CC company was not as kind and I ended up out the money and no product, really wish I had used another brand of card. Lesson learned: on eBay it is buyer beware and eBay will not help a buyer in almost any circumstance.
Sorry to hear and agreed
I only can say “thank you” for your patience, curiosity and drive. I recently went through a situation like this but… I lost the fight. My point is if most of us would do what you just did (but we don’t) this freaking companies would have more respect for the customers. Freaking eBay! Freaking Ali express!
Sorry to hear and thank you!!!
Been here before unfortunately. Solid breakdown, Dave!
Perhaps when this vid goes public we can get enough hits to get eBay to do a policy change! Doubtful but hey, Nuetrik dropped the price of tools and is offering free 3d downloads of the tools, after I did a vid,
It's not like it's not an obvious flaw to their policy
Glad your credit card company made you whole. Keep up the great work Dave! love your channel ✌🏼
I had a similar situation years ago. The eBay automated dispute resolution process is designed to support fraudsters. eBay is only concerned about getting their cut and not whether any product is ever delivered. I don't buy from eBay much, but if I do it has to be a seller with thousands of sales and a 99% or better rating.
Yes and I probably should take that more cautious approach but also part of me wants to challenge things that are broken and push the limits a bit.
Overly cautious is nowhere near as fun I was taking some risks and occasionally getting knocked down
@@DaveRat if it didn't waste so much time, I'd be right there with you 😁
You are here with me and just by commenting and watching the video you're elevating its impact The more people that see this and react the more probable this drop in a bucket could influence a policy change by eBay
Wow, what a crazy ride man. Glad you got it resolved.
Yes and thank you!
You skipped the last requirement in the Ebay money back guarantee... Orders over $750 dollars require a proof of receipt signature which the scammer does not have and so Ebay should have refunded you for that reason alone...
That brings up the other loophole in eBay money back guarantee deceiving claim. That 750 appears to only apply to the sale price but this item had a significant shipping cost which doesn't count towards that 750 allowing the scammer to avoid the signature
I wish to achieve this level of calm ::) cool little speaker though, really interested in the (hopefully) upcoming review if it is still scheduled, cheers!
Yes I'm still working on it The little wedge is actually done but I need to work on the little miniature subwoofer that goes along with it and I've been busy with other projects but it will come
If the price is so discounted as to be an amazeballs deal, lock it in as a scam.
Had a similar scam but luckily I poked holes in Ebay's terms of service and threatened to report their practice to our ACCC. The seller forgot to send a package to my very very small town I live in. Got my refund.
Agreed but that's not really the point. The issue is in my opinion that if there is clear fraud, and a clearly stated policy of money back guarantee, that siding with the fraud should not be legally allowed.
It is the deception of the fraudulent claim of money back guarantee that I consider to be the issue.
Also I've had good luck buying highly discounted items that have issues that the owners don't disclose which I'm fine with to some degree.
I bought an amazing infrared fluke camera at a great price and when I got it The control board didn't work and you couldn't move the cursor and do anything. In the auction they stated that they didn't know how well it worked so they sold it fair and square.
I opened it up plugged the ribbon in and now I have a wonderful fluke infrared camera.
F eBay. I quit selling when they said they were "streamlining" their payment processing. So instead of getting paid immediately when someone bought it now, it would now take a week. That's right, they went from bullet train to steam engine in their payment processing and called it "streamlining"... F'n clowns.
I can understand that they withheld money to avoid scammers.
Yeah I was a little sketch on that but I figured like impulse 60 said that slowing down the payment process would help reduce online fraud by not paying fraudulent sellers until everything was confirmed.
I support a safe for environment but it seems that the plan didn't work
Almost identical experience with a FB purchase via PayPal. PayPal did not support the the buyer if a fraudulent ad. With a bait and switch tactic
That sucks, so sorry to hear
I have always had good luck with eBay refunds.
It is a tossup over who is worse about scammers, eBay or Amazon Marketplace. Amazon sellers will list stuff and non-returnable, and those are very hard to dispute. Make sure you check the return policy before you buy, it will be just a couple lines under the price.
For eBay, it is best to make sure they are well rated and actually read the ratings to make sure they are not fake.
Agreed on all of that and I believe that's kind of sidestepping the actual issue which I think is important.
My focus in doing this video even after I received a full refund from the credit card company was to highlight the deceptive claim by eBay of a money back guarantee, when in reality there is a loophole which allows them to not refund the money and still earn the sellers fees.
Rather than putting the blame on the purchaser for not being cautious enough in a mine field of scammers, I believe our efforts maybe more beneficial by holding the company that facilitates the scammers to be accountable.
This situation is definitely the exception to the rule. Buyers commit most of the fraud on eBay, not sellers.
My issue is with eBay deceptive statement of " money back guarantee" creating a false sense of security
@@DaveRat
Ya. Well, try being a seller and believing their "Seller Protection". Last year alone I lost nearly $11,000 to return fraud.
Yikes and same. I blame eBay for false advertising and they should be held accountable.and yes, I have been screwed by buyers as well.
eBay should change its guarantee to
Give it a shot, maybe you'll get lucky
To many chancers on eBay. Heard one of them in a shop sounded pretty decent, but not worth that sort of money.
Yeah I don't really want to keep one of those speakers but if I can get a good enough deal I'll buy it and test it and just resell it for similar money to what I bought it for. I just don't want to really be stuck with it and I'm not so interested that I'm willing to take a big loss
I just lost 200 USD buying Airpods in Amazon and USPS never delivered saying someone picked them up at the post office... What? It wasn't me!!! Thinking twice before buying on line again. Going back to the store and paying cash... The old school
Well that sucks
Never ever ever leave money in the bank accounts that are associated with your ebay. Move the money immediately or one day a scam buyer will screw you and ebay will side with them.
Wise
Give em hell, Dave!
Something to do and battling wrongness is my adventure!
Wow… so maybe this is why occasionally low value items (that we didn’t order) randomly show up to our house?
Most likely yes
If delivered to wrong address, it might be the shipping company's fault and not the seller.
I ordered 3 items totalling $300 and the delivery man sent me a text saying my orders were delivered, but didn't send me a picture and drove off.
I saw the delivery truck as he was leaving and ran outside and spotted my 3 packages 📦 delivered to my next door neighbor's door.
I caught them in time before they were able to take them all in the house.
Sometimes it is the individual delivery drivers that are at fault for lost or misdelivery to wrong location.
I am not confident in the employees of this company and to avoid getting the same company and same delivery person, I shop local and pick up my merchandise from local stores.
I had no way to report the driver, but if I do decide to order.
I will make sure to way for delivery at the curb ( to make sure they don't make same mistakes again)!
As I show in the video, when I go to FedEx and track the package and input my address, FedEx says that my address was not the address that the shipper sent it to. Additionally when I contacted the seller and inform them there was sent to the wrong address they never responded again
I am glad your shipment issue was resolved and you got your refund back.
Persistence and constantly getting on them and the credit card about the refund on the lost item worked in your favor.
Glad you did not give up even when they gave you the run around!
Wonderful and thank you!
That’s a TED talk right there
Honored
OH MY GOSH!!! I LITERALLY WENT THROUGH THIS EXACT SCAM!! $600 gone for me. I had all the documents and everything. I even tracked down the address the package was supposedly delivered to. They of course had no idea about any package.
So frustrating. I was in the process of disputing with my credit card company, but I left the country on a scheduled trip and had to let it go.
I hate that story and I'm so sorry. And yes if I was more busy at the time I would have had to let it go as well
Glad you got your money back. Incredible patience sir.
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Great job, Dave! Thanks for the video.
Thank you Frank!
I had this happen. The seller changed the delivery address and I never received the item purchased. Same scam but eBay did refund. But buying online isn’t safe anymore. Better luck in the future man.
Glad you faired better. I will never get those hours back but at least I gat story to share!
@@DaveRat hopefully it helps someone to not have the same experience.
@@DaveRat I took screen shots of the change of address from Dhl’s shipping website and sent that to eBay. It took a couple weeks to convince them though. At first they denied the claim and then I had to appeal it and when I got to the second agent then that person approved the refund. but I don’t really trust online sales anymore. There are a lot of thieving rings on Amazon eBay and Facebook marketplace, they steal stuff from stores and wherever; and then they list it on those website and sell the stolen items.
eBay has gotten sketchy for sure. I bought some equipment through eBay and a week later the exact same add was posted again through a different seller. A month or so later the same. On a side note I did get to hear one of those speakers… They’re impressive for their size. Not my cup of tea but interesting.
Yeah I,d like to hear them. My take is that the value of the speakers Will not be the actual sound quality but rather the amount of sound for their size and the aesthetic look as a talking piece in an artistic way.
I expect them to be sparkly bright clean and lots of low end but not necessarily what I want to listen to. Hopefully I'll find one at a reasonable price and test soon
the specs of that item are dubious at best ,just that makes me suspicious about their business practice,zero feedback is also a big warning
And this is why I need to get one and test it!
David, this video with this solution is really fantastic and has saved a lot of equipment around the world
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Reverb supports Scammers also by letting them on their platform, and then takes 0% responsibility...
Yeah I guess the real problem is that the public doesn't push back hard enough and hold the companys accountable
Something similar happened to me over $75 never got the product. Never even shipped. Tried many times to get my money back. It took me a good year before I had to use ebay again to sell.
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The same thing happened to me, that is why they are called Evil Bay!
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WOw! What a scam!!! And it's a shame that the creditcard company has to pay, instead of the seller/eBay... Glad you looked into this, Dave! :-) Thanks!
The credit card company actually forced eBay to pay them back! They have a lot more power than I do and based on the information I supplied eBay ended up having to pay
Dealing with this exact thing right now. I've been a reseller on eBay for years but recently their support has really gone down the tubes.
My hubby (has his own account) purchased a drone that he never received from someone who was obviously a scam seller. She changed the address & out in a bogus tracking number and we never received the item. We have been back and forth with eBay trying to get a refund. But they are siding with the seller because they uploaded tracking and it says delivered.
I'm so sorry to hear that and I fully feel your frustration. eBay's lack of understanding and responses are absolutely absurd. I hope you paid with a credit card company. It may be worth it to reach out to the credit card company early and find out what info they're going to want from eBay.
Also I highly recommend you screenshot everything. After the fact eBay deletes the sellers and the auctions and all kinds of info that you can't get back.
I don't have a copy of the original auction because I didn't screenshot it and that was a bummer.
@@DaveRat Thank you so much for the info. I'll do that now 👍
Good luck and keep me updated!
I’m full time Amazon and eBay. 18 years. It’s my only income. I aged early doing this crap. Worse than waiting tables. I think they should both be shut down. 18 years and I still don’t know if I have to offer free returns and shipping or not, at Amazon. Depends on the rep du jour. I wake up everyday wondering if my account is at risk of deactivation for something beyond my control while Jeff Besos vacations in the South of France. eBay is just a lying sack of dog poop. Professional liars.
I have compassion for your frustrations. And personally with my own companies work to return and align with high quality customer service and warranty adventures. And do my best to support other companies that do the same.
This happened to me with a DVD. The bogus delivery notice stated the weight of the package was 26 pounds. E-Bay refunded my money.
Yes that's what I expected to happen if the item was incorrect or not delivered.
Perhaps the craftiness of the scammer plays a role in this
ebay was good about 20 years ago , great collector community, but now members prevented from talking to each other, sellers can't give buyers bad feedback (so often they just don't bother to pay) its a cesspit of junk now. so many sellers with multiple IDs all in China and don't speak a word of English but pretending to be in UK or USA etc.
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Been on the opposite side where someone purchased my item with a digital download. They claimed it didn't have the digital download and refunded the item. Now I am out $300 and ebay won't do anything about it. These cases are tough but in your case it should have been obvious from the start.
Bummer. I realize there will be scammers but it is ebays responsibility to protect sellers and buyers on their platform
Not to mention ebays deceptive money back claim
damn you have the patience of a Yoda level sound guy.
by the way Matt from Morrow bay says hi lol
Thank you and hey hey Matt!
This was so obviously a scam right from the beginning. If you fall for this you deserve to be scammed or have a run around getting your money back. The saying 'if it sounds too good to be true it's probably a con' has been around for a very long time. Wise up people.
My issue is not with the scammer. The issue is the deceptive advertising by eBay saying money back guarantee. This false promise states that the buyer is protected when actually the reality is that eBay's policy is buyer beware.
If eBay's policy and guarantee was "buyer beware because we're not going to help you", then we would be all good.
It puzzles me why people are okay with deceptive advertising and make excuses of why that is okay to do That's insane to me.
I own a company that manufactures audio equipment and our money back guarantee and warranty for life is something that we stand behind and it is extremely important to our credibility.
But based on your perspective we should just say that and then not do it and everybody will be fine with it and that's okay right?
When I first saw this video in my subscriptions I thought it was a Jim Browning video! These practices are atrocious and it's crazy how long it took for you to get your money back.
If you end up actually buying the Devialet speaker, please consider sending it to Erin's Audio Corner or to Audio Science Review. They have a Klippel Nearfield Scanner (100k$ measurement system) that will return the most accurate data for loudspeakers you can get (CEA-2034 compliant). Would love to see a detailed measurement report for this speaker!
Interesting and I will ponder that.
What I find most exciting about the speaker is that it is a fairly high volume full range point source which is very uncommon.
I'm not really as interested in what it's technical specs are as much as what I could use it for to demonstrate audio phenomenon
I stopped using Ebay years ago because they are useless in stopping fraud.
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Stopped using eBay nearly 20 years ago. It's a cesspool of rip off artists more often than not (in my experience with any of the items I've been interested in).
Stick with local marketplaces and reputable brokers!
I've had reasonably good results on eBay and found it to be useful in locating some items. I found this experience to be especially unsettling.
I fully understand there hard dishonest scammers to be wary of, that is not the issue for me in this situation though.
The issue is the deceptive promotion of money back guarantee by eBay with wording that provides a loophole such that they do not have to fulfill it but can still earn seller's fees.
I created this video with a probably false and hopeless optimism of putting pressure on eBay to close that loophole
And also to help other people understand how the scam works
@@DaveRat Certainly. I agree there is legitimate business occurring, but I personally decided not to spend my time with that level of risk because of a very similar experience where I was not protected with full evidence of the fraud. Luckily my value was less.
I've had much better luck with other platforms that allow used or third party sellers that really enforce their policies (amazon for one).
Of course you have to go where the product you're seeking is.
I'm upset for you! With such clear evidence I don't see how they could deny, even after that second flag that removed their account.... That just baffles me.
Have you gotten a rep on the phone yet? Sometimes that's what it really takes otherwise the emails just bounce around in the void causing all kinds of phase cancellation! 😂
Yeah I ended up getting a full refund from the credit card company that back charged eBay so all is done.
I just wanted to share it to help others in their quest and hopefully put pressure on eBay too improve their enforcement
@@DaveRat well hopefully they read some of these comments and can see that your experience has been communicated to many, and that you're not the only one facing these problems.
In my case I may be overly cautious but it's still costing them any potential business from me!
As for those speakers. I think they're going to be extremely room dependent based on the complexity of the engineering. May sound good in a small room and drop LF off fast the larger it gets.
Very Bose+esque, in that the complexity of the design seems like it would introduce variable dependent response and diminish transient response by over reliance on resonance or opposing force (think direct radiating reflex vs. opposing horn loaded bandpass).
Interesting idea but I'd be curious to see how they perform at different volume spaces. It doesn't seem like there's any way to build significant pressure for larger space without more surface area as many open baffle designs rely on. I know this isn't exactly open, but the physical size and unique design seems like it would be quite limiting.
I await your trusted review, and opinions!
Keep on keeping on!
/Chuckle....And Ive been on Ebay for 20 Years with Perfect results and Zero issues...its in how much you know and how you play the game mate. That's not to say things havent occurred but done right one should Never lose out. /shrug
Experience for all in life are diff eh.
I had the very same issue with a camera, apparently if the sender just sends anything to a wrong address and it arrives ebay will favor the seller! Ebay is no longer a place to buy high end items, cheap stuff maybe but expensive items too much risk!
What's the most part I agree. Though dealing with sellers that have very high ratings seem to still be okay
I refuse to sell on EBay anymore after having to wait so long for payment on goods sold.
Yes, it has lost its luster
Got to ask who is the bigger liar Ebay for their guarantee or Devialet for 1100w rms
Well I'd have to test to know for sure but I also know that extremely small high power amplifiers are readily available.
The key aspect to know is that when 1100 w is claimed they are not claiming 1100 watts continuous but rather the ability to output 1,100 w over a short period of time it is compatible with music dynamics
@@DaveRatThanks it’s always good to get a reply from you, what bothers me is how long that power supply will deliver 1.1kw not long I suspect. But it would be interesting to get your hands on one and test.
Well, 1.1kw or 1100 watts is less than a hair style or toaster.
And unlike audio where the 1100 w peaks only need to happen for short periods of time a hair dryer or toaster is actually continuous power and would need a much thicker cable in the speaker.
A typical wall outlet in the US will supply 1.8kW to 2.4kW.
And for 1.8 kilowatts You're the only need 16 gauge wire
I lost a lot of money to scammers on eBay. Why did I lose money? Because of eBay itself. Would not have been an issue except for eBay's intervention. A scammer's *best* friend.
Yes they have broken my trust
Money laundering guarantee! The scam they pulled with me was similar except they intentionally sent broken equipment, handled the return over messages instead of an eBay return, waited out the 60 days then ghosted me. eBay fully washed their hands of it. The account is still up and doing LOTS of business.
Also, I'm dying to work with your team! Early career A1/A2 in LA. Will be getting in touch with Admin@RS unless there's a better way
Damn that cost more than my car, which I live in when not in the hospital. Wow!
Crazy how expensive those blue tooth speakers are!
I’ve been screwed by eBay as a buyer and a seller.
Bummer to hear and the more people that push back by either not using them or even better forcing refunds, maybe can help clean things up a bit
Try upscale audio, you could ride out there and hear it.
I bought one! Found a refurbished from Devialet for $2600. It will be here soon and will test
Hi Dave, thanks for the info. Just recently I was looking at some mixing desks on eBay and found an Allen Heath SQ6, a Behringer X32 and a Midas M32 all for around 250UK pounds each, a fraction of what they should sell for. I did notice all three sellers had 0 feedback but I did nearly order one, like you thinking I would be safe with the money back Ebay guarentee. The listings did disappear before I ordered. I did wonder if a scam how it would work.
Yes you hit the nail on the head and that's exactly my biggest issue with this, the deceptive safety that eBay promotes with the guarantee that they don't follow through with.
It’s my dream to be that levelheaded
Honored!!
Back in the day I bought two of their amps. The 800 watt expert ones.
Very cool, looking forward to checking it out
Had almost the same experience with a pretty expensive camera, though the tracking was only to my zip code. The weight was also incorrect. Ultimately, eBay dragged their feet too long, and only after my credit card company refunded me did they tell me that it would have been resolved in my favor. But they really don’t like you going outside of their resolution center.
I felt protected by the “money back guarantee” as well, and went against my better judgement.
So, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Yes I've got good deals and crappy deals on eBay. Sometimes I take the risk.
Once I bought a very expensive tester that was too good to be true and when I got it it was intermittent which made it somewhat useless and then I opened it and fixed it which made it wonderful.
I was hoping this would be that kind of deal and the money back guarantee gave me a false sense of security.
Maybe do this video public so we can share the shitty Ebay policies. Wgat a bummer, no refound for the time and energy lost
Yeah I think I'll put it up today thank you
Sorry, Dave
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I don’t buy anything through eBay anymore.
I bought my Devialet speakers direct from the company, no third party is ever going to be able to onsell these.
Tracked from manufacturer in France.
I hope you are able to get one to review but even getting one 2nd hand is not easy.
I found the Devialet Web site has refurbished phantom Gold 108 for $2600 and it's en-route to me now!
@@DaveRat Nice! I hope you can enjoy them. I love mine which are 7 years old now, Silver on white "tree stands".
@bondibois will let ya know. Fun to test
Great Video Dave!
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So glad it only cost me getting scammed a down puffer jacket several sizes too small (that mum loves, thankfully) to give up on ebay.
I would have been okay with a cool point source speaker a couple sizes too small
@@DaveRat I mean..... me too?
Mum wouldnt have go that one XD
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So it was literally just your CC Company that stepped in huh, that's crazy. I can't believe Ebay is actually that scammy. So like, in reality for them to actually honour their money back guarantee, what would someone have to do I wonder lol?
You really hit the nail on the head. It's the deceptive false sense of security of the money back guarantee which is the big issue
The problem ebay has at the moment they have tried to automate everything. I am betting no human even looked at your case and the second you requested most likely went to some 3rd world help desk were they just followed the same rules as the computer did on the first one.
Agreed
I thought this was going to be about all the fake Shure and Sennhieser mics on Ebay
Yeah I haven't tried those yet. I can imagine that counterfeit products would be even harder to get money back then something more obvious like what happened to me
Same kind of thing happened to me with a purchase because it said delivered.
So sorry, bummer
All I can say is WOW. I thought Ebay was a legit company. I have not had any negative issues but again Buyer Beware! So many scammers in the virtual world. Watch your 6....
Yeah I'm not as bummed about the scammers as I am about the false advertising of the money back guarantee from eBay. In my opinion I am trusting eBay to protect me from the scammers and eBay claims to protect me with a money back guarantee.
That false advertising or deceptive advertising is where my real issue lies with this
I had a similar issue but fortunately I had paid with Paypal who took less than 24 hours to fully refund the money. From then on no purchase will be made if the seller does not accept Paypal.
Very cool . I had issues with PayPal in the past but that was when PayPal was part of eBay.
The bigger issue to me is the deceptive advertising aspect.
I can afford the money lost, what I want is a safe honest place to buy with confidence.
Yeah, pipe dream. But I can still push for it
Did you try to reach out to fedex? I had similar issue and was able to get a letter from fedex stating that the tracking number was not delivered to the address listed on the order. After submitting that I got the refund. Also anything over 500, request it be shipped insured. The scammers wont do it, because the courier will investigate and Trace the package.
Great advice and thank you!
I will definitely be more cautious And those are great suggestions.
Additionally, part of me is shouting "why is this okay for eBay to be deceptive and offer false trust and confidence?"
I fully understand and relate to the buyer beware scenario but in the bigger picture eBay's dishonest money-back guarantee claim is what took me down this rabbit hole
I've gone through this about four times with ebay. I've always been refunded.
Interesting, any idea of what could have gone wrong in my situation?
Damn Dave. This is very bad. Lucky you got refund
Yeah and hopefully when I put this public perhaps it'll inspire some changes to their policy doubtful but hopeful
ah yes but we will be looking into your case for you
Appreciate your effort in educating others
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6:48 THE WHOLE VID I WAS SCREAMING CHARGEBACK!!!!!!!!! CALL THE BANK, CHARGEBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO YESSSSSSSSSSSSS GET EM
8:11 LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yes having the charge back as a second line of defense proved wonderful
The issue for me centered around the false advertising of the money back guarantee which to be honest, without that I would not have made the purchase but it gave me a false sense of security
I’ve never trusted a letter signed, best regards
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You skipped over the fact it says a signature is required on items 750$ or more.. so….
I think the amount is slightly higher as the purchase I made did not trigger the signature requirement
I would never use eBay for anything
I've had good experiences I used to buy and sell LGB trains and had much success with that. Also owning a sound company, it's almost necessary to seek out parts for older gear and such and use platforms like eBay to keep some of the vintage gear running.
It Happened to me ! I sent my money to that seller and my headphone cables never arrived!! Thanks Dave Rat! Take some time our and pet yourself because I can’t go out and pet you for you :)
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Great video! Didn't know eBay pulled that kind of crap on folks! 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
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This should have been obvious to eBay. No human customer service was needed. The system should have detected a 0-sales account versus a 24-year loyal account and immediately ruled in your favor. This is the problem with hiring woefully undertrained customer service staff who have no common sense or investigative skills: you burn out your loyal customers because your inept customer service organization can’t manage do its job properly. I’ve seen multiple companies let their customer service organization torch loyal, high-value customers without a thought.
Interesting and I didn't think about that angle.
Feels like corporate oversight basically says to grab the eBay fees and resist refunds at all costs because it makes them more money in the long run
Great video man!! Extremely interesting. Seems like ebay went down the drain in past few years. I wanted to add something. Couldn't you find that house somehow and visited it and asked the folks what was in that package?
I thought about that but it would take a bunch of driving around, though I do keep an eye out for it!
@DaveRat try Google street view. I just don't understand how they sent that package to the wrong address but ebay still literally tracked it and having your info still denied the refund
Yeah, I show it in the vid where eBay only requires it to be sent to the correct zip code but does not check the proper address.
FedEx only shares the zip code sent to and won't share the address associated with the tracking #.
Awesome Dave!
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You bought an $800 item from an eBay seller with ZERO history or feedback???
The video claims " eBay supports fraud" I give clear proof that it does. I am not complaining, just stating a fact.
I own a company tha manufacturers audio products andt offers lifetime warranty.
eBay states there is a money back guarantee of you do not receive your product.
Should eBay or my company be held accountable for fulfilling our statements or claims or is it a buyer beware world where eBay and I do not need to honor our claims?
eBay supports fraud, I support honesty and integrity, what do you support?
@@DaveRat I absolutely agree with you. However I also know what a cesspit eBay has become. I'm an eBay seller as well as a buyer and I will never buy from a seller with zero feedback. Several days ago I also cancelled a sale from a buyer with zero history.
With no history the likelihood of the buyer pulling some non receipt scam is higher than your average eBayer, and the reverse for buying from an unproven seller.
It's just what the world has become my man. People out to take advantage of others at any chance they can. It's a sad fact, unfortunately.
Best wishes.
And that's the reason that I posted the video and hopefully more people push back. Cool cool
This is why I always just do a paypal dispute
Yeah I ended up getting money back to the credit card company. But before that I wanted to try and follow and test the integrity of "eBay's money back guarantee "
Integrity test fail
Love you Dave!
Rocking!!!👍👍👍
Yea I had the same problem with ebay back in January. It caused me to close my account on ebay.
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I'm 55 seconds into a video discussing scams and up come some specs.
Dubious specs. Why?
Glad you asked. 108dB SPL.... measured how? At what percent total harmonic distortion?
Freq response of 14 to 27k...how much roll-off at the ends of the spectrum? 108 dB?
1100 watts RMS... well now, RMS implies they'll deliver forever, but I have a feeling that's some sort of instantaneous peak, just after they catch on fire.
Let's see what happens.
:-)
Well. no joy on how the advertised specs matched up with the product recieved, but I have one more tidbit. When I'm dealing with established vendors who have good reps, and I'm in a hurry, I look at dynamic range. It is NOT the be-all, end-all spec, but it tells me in one swoop how an item compares to others, and good numbers here...generally...indicate build quality, longevity, etc.
YMMV.
I have one coming and will test it soon!
ebay closed my account because a buyer claimed item was not as described and returned probably an empty box, to not my address. i never got it back, USPS couldn't find it.
Aaargh, so sorry and that sucks. Yes that kind of shi is why I posted this video.
The only reason eBay hasn't changed their policies is there is not enough backlash
@@DaveRat i'm trying to find a new place to live, you can't believe how many scammers and phishing is on Craigslist and Facebook, it's out of control.