Carvera - The Perfect Desktop CNC Mill?
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2023
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I am so disappointed that you would push this overpriced POS. This thing is no different than those $300 CNC machines on AliExpress with an expensive looking enclosure, sold for 10x as much. You are basically paying $1600 for that enclosure and getting a $300 cnc.
Whar happened to all the china videos ?
really nice cnc congrats on your work we know that its gonna change all the things you create in the future
CNC FTW!
@@excitedbox5705 🤣🤣
I like the idea of including a documented project, with parts, to get yourself familiar with the machine.
Yeaa... It'll show you what CAN be done but not how... CNCing on machines of this... "Caliber" is parts knowledge and parts gut feeling. You need some general knowledge about the available operations you can do, which tools to use for the material, and which settings to use for them to neither wear down like no ones business ( feeding too slow ) or breaking ( feeding too fast ).
And since these machines usually aren't as rigid as one would may want you'll also need a good portion of the Gut Feeling, listening to the sound it makes and maybe get a feel for vibrations. If you have a good running Setup then your Endmill will remain reasonably warm for you to be able to touch it shortly after it came to a stop as most of the heat will have been carried away with the chips it cut away leaving the tool "cold".
The marketing team for this product deserve huge props just based on the people they have sent one too.
The problem with the USB-C is the missing 5.1kOhm CC pin resistors. Classic mistake, first Raspberry Pi 4 board revision also did this wrong :D
Ah - I was wondering why I have to use a USB-C to USB-A cable to an adapter back to USB-C:)
Good catch, Tobias!
Hello, I am Josh from Makera. First Thank you very much, Scotty, for reviewing the Carvera and giving us your honest feedback. And really looking forward to your future projects, which we know you have already started.
We want to be here to talk a little bit about the Carvera machine. Yes, you can buy a CNC for several hundred bucks, but for most people, you can barely get very good milling results and the operation process is usually tedious, espicially tool changing and probing, even with some machines with a similar price range, many people still can't get used to it after a long time and let the machines do what they need.
That's why we designed and made the Carvera: letting the CNC as easy to use as the 3D printer, we still have a long way to go but we think the Carvera is the start, the ATC(Auto tool changing and Auto probing) are the 2 key functions that can release your pain when operating CNC.
Dust collection/laser module/4th axis module/Remote control/App based controller are all things that we want to further expand your ability or make it much easy-to-use.
The enclosure/all metal frame(weight more than 50KG/110lb)/high precision linear motion system/all closed loop servo system are the ways to keep the machine more precise, quiet, clean and robust.
The Carvera is not cheap, but we are not comparing it to cheap CNC kits, not even the similar price range machines. We are comparing to $10K+ Roloand/LPKF for making clean and usable PCBs and other precise parts.
If you are really interested in the Carvera, we would suggest coming to our facebook or discord user groups, and see what people are saying about it.
Hey Josh, the machine seems pretty great. Interested to see how it can grow. Could you guys try and create a professional comparison video between your machine and a Wegstr machine? They seem to be very high quality for PCBs and would be the gold standard to beat IMO as they're about in your price range. Their videos are beautiful too. The PCB here seemed a bit rough in comparison (Although he mentioned his poor solder masking). Would be cool to see you beat them someday anyway. Also is there any room for future price reductions? A full starter Tormach CNC that can make things out of more than just Aluminum starts around 6k which isn't that much more if you're already spending this kind of money, although not necessarily made to make PCBs.
@@ablasttv Yes, the Wegstr machine is good, their videos are great, and I am one of their fans too. But I haven't used their device so I can't say much. But based on the limited product review you can find online, their machine has similar questions like others, you can't easily get fine results on your own without a lot of effort in fine-tuning, and the process is tedious. That's the main pain point Carvera wants to solve, with ATC/Auto leveling and other smart features, we empower the user to get good results with ease.
BTW: we are introducing the rolling method for solder mask application, it's not the most beautiful way, but it works just fine and is much easier and controllable than other methods.
I love the tool change feature, I hope you also do a much bigger version, like 1 x 1 metre.
Seems interesting, I like that they included materials to create your first projects to learn the functionality. It does seem the dust collection and ventilation is a problem.
The dust collection looked almost non-existent. But it could be partially resolved by just moving the mount down
I was one of the first backers and have this machine. The issue with dust collection is mainly just the weak vacuum power. There is a bypass that allows you to connect your own vacuum if you want. You aren't limited to the weak integrated vacuum motor.
So stoked that you’re getting back to it. As a 37 year old who’s life is kindof falling apart, seeing you push through a serious brain injury is really inspiring. Love your content and tenacity.
It gets better friend. My life was falling apart in my mid 20s. Lost so many years to depression. Now I’m mid 30s and things are looking up :)
Titans Of CNC use these all the time!
Good to see your health is better now😄. ⚡❤️❤️⚡
Wow, the possibilities with a machine like that are really exciting.
When I was in college 20 years ago, we had a laser engraver but it was huge, with an argon bottle attached to it. This thing is cool.
Wow, it's an amazing Santa Claus gift! Great to see a post! Happy 2023!!!
Strange Parts unboxing; my new favorite thing.
Awesome! I just got a CNC a couple months ago and started learning... my goal is to build my own CNC... I'm about half way done. :)
Lasers burn the substrate - obviously. BUT what are the gases/particles given off????
Anything other than clean air going into your lungs is not ideal - excellent filtration or extraction is needed.
And this is for everything that puts anything into the air - welding, routing, laser of wood, metal plastic.
A simple fan + HEPA filter for the room would at minimum be a good (minimal) investment.
Love your work
Yeah, if I start using the laser a bunch, I'll probably hook up some sort of exhaust/filter via the external dust collection port built in to the machine.
Nice to see you back :)
nice piece of kit
Could you post what your feed rate and cutting depths are with your 1/4" bits? I'm really curious to know what you get.
I purchased a different machine a couple months ago and replaced the spindle that came with it with a Dewalt 611 Router and that really helped improve feed rate. That said, I'm still really new to CNC and found that if I kept the cutting depth to less than 1mm with a feed rate of under 250, I could still manage mirror finished without chatter. That said, I noticed that the bit life on my end mills were reduced if I went to fast so I end up cutting at a feed rate of 100 and my end mills last a ton longer. lol
May be worth it to get some quick change/choke down tools so they all have a 1/4 shank but the 1/8in tools are only 8th inch on the cutting end. Really helps workflow
14:53 that filter looks identical to those on robotic vacuum cleaners from Roborock. Replacement filters are readily available at online shops.
This is so awesome Scottie!! The elephant in the room is.... Im seeing some future projects in the making, Round Iphone chassis with round screen?! The possibilities are endless!
Wow, it's an amazing Santa Claus gift!
As someone who owns a Fiber Laser, Co2 Laser, 2 Large CNCs and a Liquid cooled mill, This machine looks pretty cool but doesn't seem to do any one thing very well. It's definitely a jack of all trades but a master of none. I'd maybe give it a year or two and a couple versions before buying in. I would love to trade my large water cooled mill in for something more user friendly that takes up way less space. Most of the projects I do are pretty small scale so something this size would be great. Sadly I don't think its there for me yet. If this machine performed really well, I would say the price tag would be acceptable but from what I am seeing, it's not really that well performing for the cost.
Nice project, Scotty!
Interesting. I have had a Sherline CNC mill for 20 years.
The Sherline is actualy a mill, not a plotter with a spindle instead of a pen.
I routinely do steel components. Lots of brass.
I do plaques 12" X 8" from 1/8 brass.
In the past, I'm retired now, I manufactured clock and insturment components.
I could set the mill up, hit start and it would flawlesly finish a component while I did another job.
I called it my obbedient aprentice.
Kent
cool machine & great vid
Nice little multi use machine, especially for PCB's. But the price is enormous.
Cool, may I know which IC you used in the example project in the video?
that background bench drill press with crosstable? Make and model? Looks like exactly something i need
I’d like to see a purpose built variant of this machine that is intended specifically for PCB milling included with laser for PCB marking. Machines that are made for general purpose tend to make compromises, also a purpose built, for PCB milling, could be built with a lower height.
Might suggest loading your own profile jigs into the cad software, it typically has a project function with it. On larger scale systems they'll use something like: Accuform Green Laser LED projector. While the one I found on Grainger is 1200.00. You might be able to find one for around $200.
what would happen if you put the acrylic in a tumbler to make it mat? would that work and would it look cool?
I wonder if you could use MasterCAM to generate programs and G-code. You'd need to create a POST for the machine but after that the sky is the limit. Can you cut mild steel if you feed slowly or do you not have the rigidity/power?
Ive been watching these units and this was a great review. Very cool hardware
Did you check the goggles they provided to see if they really protect your eyes from the laser?
I hope you have checked the effectiveness of those laser glasses somehow? Or that clear cover? Otherwise this looks like a decent machine, let's hope the software gets better.
I don't have a way to officially test the laser goggles, but they seemed pretty solid. The brightness of the laser light on the board was very significantly reduced with them on, to the point I was quite surprised how bright it was when I briefly took them off to check something. I don't really have any concerns about it. The clear cover, on the other hand, doesn't do much for blocking the laser light as far as I can tell.
@@strangerparts But you must understand that dark glasses might not block any of the wavelengths of the laser which can cause eye damage, they might essentially be transparent to the laser. Just be careful! I would check the wavelength of the laser and buy glasses which specifically block those wavelengths, you can't be too careful with your eyesight. Ask the manufacturer for more info?
Love that device ohhh, the things I could do with it.
Very good!
How will this machine differ from the newer Cervera Air model?
1200 bucks for the x carve without the router seems to be to be an absurd price to me. I already have the tools just need the rest of it but would love a CNC system. 5K that's nuts pricing for what this is.
Wonder if it has an option for cooking liquid to cut steel
The crazy thing is they have had cnc machines with the exact same design for decades usually for schools and about double the size but same exact frame
Looks really nice. Which is your small hand saw? Do you have a link to purchase? Thanks!
Not sure - it came with the Carvera.
if there's one thing i can recommend it is picking up a few rlly high quality end mills from a brand like kennametal when they are this small they are pretty cheap even when getting the best of the best
its weird i was "unsubscribed" to your channel. I was 100% a subscriber since you first arrived in China.
Looks similar to the discontinued Carvey from Inventables, and on par (or maybe even improved) with the Nomad from Carbide 3D. Both machines are small desktop CNCs with a full enclosure, and both are/were available for
Yes, it looks VERY similar to a Carvey
Same scam as the carvey. They take a $300 cnc add an expensive looking enclosure and mark the price up 10x. You are basically paying $1600 for the enclosure and getting ripped off. Even the 3020 cnc models on Aliexpress are better than this thing. They are underpowerd to the point of being an absolute joke. You need at least 500W to cut aluminum and 1kw to cut steel.
Where are the 3020's that have an ATC and laser integrated? And for what it's worth, the 200W spindle seems to be doing ok on aluminum, though it's not as fast as I'd like. You're right though - steel is probably out of the question.
2:42 It's pretty much the deciding factor if your part will become a projectile or not haha
Definitely need a bristle dust shoe, Ive found recommended feed and plunge rates are extremely conservative.
This is exactly the same as the Inventables Carvey with a few extra bows. The Carvey is cable of milling aluminum too. The spindle will burn out quick tho!!! 😂
16:15 does the machine not support work cordanates? G54-G60?
And added to the wishlist :)
Love those GX-12 connectors. Only gripe is the cable-to-cable versions, while they exist, are a pain to find.
Think that's a gx-16 :p So basically the same but bigger :D
I think these little things could use 3/16" bits. I have a 1/8" and 1/4" collets for my 3018 which came with a 2.5W laser, 1/8" is delicate, 1/4" is pushing the standard motor. Nice jigs. I might have to copy those. The big cost is in that tool changer which is great for PCB work. Real PCB mills are much more expensive, $40,000+
nice machine
What T handle set did you purchase?
This is literally double the price it should be. The only people using these are the ones that got them for free to review….
The smart makers just make their own for a fraction of the cost.
I'm working on my own no budget desktop cnc but if you value your time and you want a tool not a project then this is dirt cheap. And I haven't seen any cheap and decent tool changing systems for desktop cncs, diy or not. And building something like this would cost one or two k for just parts since it has linear rails, ballscrews, servo motor, wireless probe, laser and more. It wouldn't be hard to build something more rigid or powerful cheaper but matching the functionality and polish for the price they offer seems very hard.
@@samandoria You bring up some good points but $4k+ is A LOT for a 200w spindle and no rigidity - no matter how many gimmicks they throw at it. If someone's not into diy, there's plenty of cnc mills/routers on aliexpress for that much with 10x the performance.
@@hzmeister9596 what makes you say the rigidity is so bad? To me it seems it should be way better than any similar size router I've seen on Ali. They also always seem to be made of aluminium or even sheet metal and not of a more sturdy construction. If you have a model/search term that I've missed I would love to look it up. I would hope this would have a more rigid alloy too considering the price. Anyway you'd be surprised at what you can achieve with even just a 70w motor and this level of rigidity. Pocketnc is also 200w and 1500 usd more(but 5axis). Having watched a lot of videos on the nomad desktop cnc I'm amazed what people can create and use it for working within its limitations.
youre awesome.. something about your vibe.
@13:00 That would be perfect for laser engraving part/revision numbers on your own PCBs.
Exactly! I think they show it on their website or kickstarter being used as a replacement for silkscreen on a PCB, which I think is a great idea. Just need a CAM toolchain that supports it...
Looks like you can machine an ar lower with this😊
That's a nice screwdriver you got there
All jokes aside, this is pretty amazing. I've always wanted to get into CNC but the machines thus far have seemed pretty daunting/intimidating.
*Edit*
The filter for the vacuum looks identical to the one in the Wyze Robot Vacuum.
I wondered if it was an LTT one myself.
Can it do double curved surfaces?
id love to see something like this with a price around $1500 dont want any of the other stuff other than being able to mill aluminum with it but would love to see something around that price range that could do it but so far the closest ive found is getting a benchtop mill an learning how to do all the work manually or converting it to cnc but id like to get a router to do it cause aluminum would be the most id do with it but acrylic an wood stuff would be most of it but at the same time it has to be able to do aluminum or its not gaining me anything i dont already have.
Is it possible to machine 316 ss with this thing?
How does the machine deal with toxic fumes from laser engraving?
Well enough to use it in an apartment?
As far as I can tell, there's no solution for the fumes. My shop got kinda stinky doing the wood engraving example, and a bit of smoke accumulated on the inside of the cover. If I was doing a lot of laser work, I'd either hook up some sort of proper fume extraction via the port for a supplementary shopvac (to replace the built-in dust collector) which looks pretty doable, or I'd buy a dedicated laser cutter/engraver.
Not bad for $5K! How much were the customs charges for this unit? Curious as to how deep will it go with the 1/4” milling bits in Aluminum and setting it for 1/8 “ depth passes if this is not too much. Waiting for another follow up!
Cool toy.
Please make another video when you have a complete workflow, to go from an idea in your head to a finished part. I have been doing CAD using OpenSCAD for about four years now, but that's been either for parts to be 3D printed, or for producing visualizations of what I can manually build out of wood and plastics. I'm only now starting to make use of my 3018 CNC "mill", still using OpenSCAD for producing the drawings, then transferring them to FreeCAD for generating gcode, then Universal Gcode Sender to operate and feed the machine. This was NOT a simple process to learn, so I cringed a little when you said something to the effect that you don't have a complete toolchain to design circuit boards from scratch, having been led by the hand through a pre-designed project. For that, by the way, take a look at KiCad for the design and FlatCAM for turning it into gcode.
Isn't the extraction hose a standard washing machine drain hose? lol
When are we going to get a new video... I thought you got people helping you now... we want more. Lol. Love your content over the years... lol. Keep them coming.
He was filming S6 of Jet Lag in Japan
huge magic mouse there 😄
I would deeply suggest to build your own CNC machine from steel if you want to process aluminum parts.
On my short you can see one i build(desktop 140Kg).
How much is it ?
is it available in EU ?
At that absurd price it is anything but perfect! I built my own for 1/3 what that POS costs!
Really appreciate you telling us when a manufacturer sends you something for free to review, but wondering, do you consider it a review then? Or a product showcase?
Eh - I'm not a reviewer in general. This is part of why this isn't on the main channel. The reality is, not many people who do call themselves a reviewer are able to regularly purchase $4k machines to test out. The economics just don't really work like that. So if you see a review for something like this, chances are they were given it. That being said, I don't really get hung up on labeling whether this is a "review" or a "product showcase". I accepted this mill without any promises that I'd do anything. I made a video because I thought it was a cool thing, and tried to be honest as I could about what my experience on thoughts on it are. I only found out right before we were going to publish the video that they had started an affiliate program, and who am I to turn down a bit of money that helps with buying tools and materials?
@@strangerparts Whatever someone wants to call it, it felt completely honest and unbiased. We saw the machine run, warts and all, and you gave us a rundown on what you'd like to see them improve on in your conclusions. That's incredibly valuable for someone who might be in the market for something like this, so I know I appreciate it!
I emitted an authentic LOL when you stated the price. I've got less than $5k into a ~refurbished Fadal VMC40 and tooling. It's a big machine but can also do a lot more. I was expecting $3k or $2499 as the price for this device.
You're comparing the price of a new machine that's ready to go to a probably very old and worn used one you somehow barely even payed the scrap metal price for?
@@samandoria note I said refurbished. Yes, is probably older than you, but still more capable than a $5k desktop machine. Money is still money, and capabilities are what they are. I spent $4k on a desktop machine 20 years ago, my Fadal is a better machine for cheaper. I've got $3500 into my machine, new screws and bearings.
@@eformance I'm not saying it's a bad deal or a bad machine and I would love to have that too. But it's such an apple's and oranges comparison. This is a new machine with support made for a home or office environment. Just because you get more horsepowers and can transport more buying a used truck for the same price as a new smart car doesn't make the smart car bad value.
@@samandoria either way it's about value, I think this thing is priced rather high for the capabilities.
Agreed, you can actually buy DMG Moris for less than this price, albeit, they need work yes, but they will destroy the capabilities of this machine, and ANY brand new haas too, I even got a video on my youtube channel of my DMG I have less than £3,000 in total, transport too. Yes it was fairly local, and a good deal, but it did not work, and machined graphite and loads of awful shit, but as you'd expect it needed massive work, really massive, but i was prepared to do so, and she is still running like a dream.
For example toolchanger did not work, x axis was fucked, oil unit, PLC unit, Screen, Spindle Cooler, screen, ect ect.
This carvera machine needs to be sub 3k for it to be worth it,
Cool video!... Surfboards?!!! 🥴 😉
What type of bit do you use for the solder mask removal ?
It’s some sort of spring loaded deal, presumably to control pressure so you don’t cut the copper. All it says on it is “uv removal tool” though
I see a custom part. Thank you for your answer.
Cool
The price is oddly close to some 5 axis mills though.
Name?
Will it do 17-4 steel and grade 5 titanium?
Doubtful. A higher capacity spindle, more rigid construction would be needed. I have a FoxAlien vasto CNC router/mill, I use it for milling aluminum, while it does the job, you can see the machining straining , especially when thicker stock is used. All this even when the machine has ball screws, large double linear carriage and rails
10:35 how do you like the LTT screwdriver?
I like it a lot! In face, just used it last night to remove a dozen screws on the back of this thing to make a quick tweak to a potentiometer that is supposed to fix the spindle errors I've been seeing (they discovered the fix after they shipped mine, but before they shipped all of the actual customer units). The screwdriver was _perfect_ for that task.
It seems a lovely machine, but pricey. I too would be super excited to get a free one!
Which CAM Programm did you use? Seems like there aren’t much for mac.. not a fan of fusion.
I've been using the CAM built in to Fusion 360
Fusion 360 is probably best, although I know of a few people who use FreeCAD as well.
These seems like a solid build for a small soft material CNC, however it suffers from the same problem as Bantum tools: at $4k, why not just spend the extra 2 grand a buy a full on tormach? I think for these desktop CNCs to be a good value they're going to have to come in under $2k.
i got a desktop cnc for 4k since its kinda hard to carry a tormach into my Apartment on the 3rd floor 🤷♂️also i only have single phase power
@@Basement_CNC which one did you get?
@@Basement_CNC I think the smallest tormach can run off 110 - either way I just can't get over the value difference. For $2k more you get a full fledged CNC machine with a real build volume that you can even cut steel on, vs $4k for a machine that's going to struggle with aluminum and has minimal build volume. Is love a small "desktop" machine but I think it should cost around $1500.
@@lephtovermeet I think this is great value for what it is but it's not the best option for most people and a huge ammount of money. What I can't figure out is why none of these desktop machines have steel or even cast iron frames. At the price the shipping cost difference must be negligible and I don't belive it would push the weight over the top to make it impossible for one person to manage a machine of this size.
I'm considering getting a tormach as well. I think they're for different use cases though. I'm not sure I'd want to try doing prototype PCBs on a tormach, for instance. Also, you're going to spend a lot more than $2k more on a tormach if you want to match the bells and whistles like an ATC, enclosure, dust removal, etc. Even on a 440, those add-ons really add up.
It didn't cut through that 1st PCB properly because it wasn't sitting flat and was rocking as it was machining it
Nice machine, but yeah the dust collection seems a bit underwhelming.
Maybe a mod for an external shop vac would be a nice addition :)
I guess I didn't mention it, but it already has a port for that - just need to buy or 3d print an adapter for my shopvac hose...
@@strangerparts I don't think you released the dust collection skirt when milling, it's supposed to fall down onto the part to make a better seal for the vacuum... I will say it's still not perfect though.
YeH, it’s a little sticky though…
The discount link has stopped working
It's nice but for $5,000 I'd be tempted to buy second hand. As for the extraction, get something external and make sure the cabinet can breathe, no point trying to suck it out while fighting a vacuum. Also, way too much shank was showing on the engraving bit, shorter is better. Apart from all that it's quite impressive and vid was well presented, you hit most of the problems that anyone new to this will face which is always good, nothing worse than new kit not performing as you'd expect.
The Tabs thst hold the Metall in Placebo should be thinner i think
Yeah, I think you're right...
please compare it to the snapmaker 2.0, as I am 'milling' over a purchase like this :p
Take my Money Now!
I think the only problem is for 5k I want the ability to make small aluminum parts and this though looking like an excellent package seems very undersized for 4 or 5k usd.
No notification so I'm late to this one!
Does it mean you have to return it after your review?
No - I get to keep it.
How much is it
3/16 endmill might be a little better option if you think the 1/4 is little bit too much
Yeah - The 1/4" is doing pretty well. Particularly on plastics like delrin and nylon. It's a bit much for aluminum, but for rough passes it's ok I think. Just wondering if I want to get more bits with a 1/4" shaft so I don't have to switch collets so much.
@@strangerparts One trick I do on my desktop CNC mill (FoxAlien WM3020) is to have a set of collets with each collet fitted to an individual nut. This saves the effort of snapping the collets in and out of a single collet nut when I want to change tooling from, say, 1/8" to 4mm to 6mm to 1/4".
Ah - these collets have an integrated nut, so that’s not an issue.
Are they using an washing machine drain hose?
So this is like $4k? You could buy an Xtool plus a CNC tool for half of that. But maybe I don't know the market yet.
you know what would be a fun project? a DIY of improving its vaccum!
Of course. Of course, everybody who ever bought a cheap 3D printer knows, your first few projects will be add-ons for the printer that make it actually usable. But for $5k? It really should be flawless.
Way too expensive at 4k.. but it's pretty cool!