Shorter Snare Wires Solve Problems | Season Four, Episode 14
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- What do you know about snare wires and sizing? It seems pretty simple that most would go with 14” wires when outfitting a 14” snare drum but the specs of those wires vary about as much as they do for a 5A drumstick from various companies (quite a bit!). What if an alternative set of wires produced a wider range of tensions without choking out the drum or suffering from the same degree of sympathetic resonance?
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Cymbals:
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Hosted by: Cody Rahn
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“This is one of those things that’s not supposed to work…😂😂😂” man I love your channel. No BS and great approach while you’ve also considered all perspectives while laying facts. Thank you
The reason you don't have bigger numbers of views is because you provide good, no bullshit, real-life information that isn't focussed on selling sizzle instead of steak.
Unfortunately that's definitely part of it. People are drawn to sensationalism. We have to play the game a bit with things like our titles and covers but we try not to go overboard and never want to mislead. Of course, people need to like/comment/share the videos- that's the number one way for our viewers to help increase the visibility of the channel. Cheers!
i have a few 14s that have 13 wires on them, and a 15 with 14 wires on it.
i did this because the wires that came with them were too close to the edges of the shell, so i'm probably not getting the same response as you got in this video, but i can tell you after 20+ years of playing them this way, that it you're absolutely right, you don't lose a lot with the smaller sets of wires.
I have used 13" wires on a 14" snare before. I also showed that to one of my students who is still running 13" wires on a 14" snare. It's a neat trick, thanks for giving it some attention. We could use some more experimentation in a world of synthetic sound
I work at a venue and have been thinking about keeping some extra 13" wires for that reason.
Well I've been playing drums for 45 years and it has NEVER occurred to me to do this! I'm definitely going out and buying some 13" wires now! Absolutely love all your videos!
i already bought up the nations supply, sorry....
I have a 13” snare that I could never get the wires to engage satisfactorily (it either sounded sloppy or choked) so I put 12” wires on it, now it sounds great. I agree that you can add a lot more tension & the drum doesn’t choke out, it was very surprising. I never thought to pass on the knowledge though 🙄 Well done guys.
you should do an episode on adding top-head snares using those little mechanisms that put a half set of wires on the mechanism usually used for a internal dampener. we normally think of these in the context of cheap kids drumsets or mini-snares, but they can sound very good when used inside a professional snare at the same time as the normal bottom-head wires.
I never thought of that before, now I'm curious
yes i like that idea and have been looking for some kids drum with that type of wires , may just convert a muffler with wires and try it that way
LP sells the mechanism and wires for their micro snare separately… I’ve added it to a 14 - it’s a cool effect.
@@mattdeluca99 my only real complaint with the LP mech is that you can't really adjust the tension with which the wires press against the head. that being said the LP one takes up less vertical space so it'll work in really shallow shells like pancake and piccolo snares
@@famitory agreed!
Cody you are looking so happy and healthy man I love to see it
Something I’d recommend trying is a marching kevlar snare side head on the bottom. I started doing it after I busted a snare side head and stole one off my marching snare before a show. There’s arguments to the possibility of jacking up a bearing edge, but I’ve been using those kevlar bottoms for the better part of a decade with no issues. The added mass and sustain really seem to thicken up the snare in both lower and higher tunings on the batter. I typically keep the snare side head a little looser than I would a regular snare side head.
I’m gonna try some 13” wires on it next because of this video! Thanks for all the fun ideas to try!
Wanna try this now
So I have the following problem: I own three Sonor snares which were setup by their previous owner with Puresound 14“ 16 strand wires. Now I came across some used original Sonor snares wires, slapped them on one of the snares and it sounded waaaay better. They feel and sound more refined/delicate in the top end frequencies. The puresounds, and this is only on my Sonor snares, feel and sound a bit dull, clanky and rattlely and less sizzleing than the Sonor wires. And I think the problem is that Sonor shells are all a little bit undersized (that’s how they build them on purpose) and since Puresound wires are longer than Sonor wires, it causes them to behave in unwanted ways. To me it almost sounds like every time you hit the drum and Puresound wires vibrate 10 times, the Sonor wires vibrate 20 times in the same amount of time. The Puresound wires extend almost to the edge of the shell whereas the Sonor wires leave roughly a 1 cm gap from their end to the edge of the shell.
Since Sonor wires are horribly expensive (more than double the price of Puresound) I will first try a set of 13“ Puresound wires and see if that helps.
Thanks for the idea!!
this is possibly revolutionary.
I have been playing for years but always struggled with the fine points of tuning. This channel is a fantastic resource on this subject. I will be spending a lot of time here. Thanks for the great content!
I just put a PureSound 13 inch, 16 strand wire on a 1958 WFL 14 inch wood snare. The drum was giving me all kinds of trouble. This was like magic. The drum now has an incredible sound. It also has deep beds cut in as well (your video on beds was an eye opener) so I added an Evans Snare Side 500 and a Evans G1 Coated. Thick fat, responsive sound. Tuned up very quickly. Thanks for this great advice.
O wao! Putting 13" snare wires on a 14" snare for much greater dynamic range..... absolutely that is what's happening to my first snare this week! Playing small venue acoustic sets in residential areas, so good sensitivity at very low volumes..... yes!!!!
At last, a video I´ve been looking forward to watch. I remember a past comment to which Cody answered me back about the 13" snare wire on a 14" drum.
That sounds fresh!! Thanks for sharing
I really like the 13" wires on the 14' snare". Depending what snare you have, sometimes the 14" wires are a bit to long even though they are supposedly the correct length. Nice!
Excellent experiment to demonstrate exactly what's going on with the snare wires. It's often so effective, when evaluating a variable, to throw something far out of the "normal" range, to tell what is going on. This is super obvious in this example, as opposed to tiny differences, as you noted in the video. Just a beautiful and functional observation.
HEY ALGORITHM!! MAKE THESE GUYS BLOW UP!
wow, thats something interesting man! thank you!
12:39 Some love for this awesome channel! Great to see this channel grow since the early days! ❤️💛💚💙💜
I put 10" wires on a 13" piccolo out of convenience and left it that way because it sounds just fine.
Cool vid and this is some good food for thought. I’m gonna try shorter wires on one of my drums. Also, Cody played some cool grooves here! Especially @ 5:54. Aight, I feel you!
Definitely going to try that. Thx
I found this not only interesting but reassuring. I hadn't previously paid too much attention to snare wires. But on buying an inexpressive Chinese made bop kit in birch, I found that the snare wires were poorly made, two of the outside wires were slack when the other were correctly tensioned. I bought a 13" set for a 14" drum because I thought there should be clearance between the snare plates and the shell beds. It sounded great, but I put that down to a superior make of wires. I was told that this was incorrect, it was a 14" snare wire for a 14" drum. Bought a 14" set, fitted it and it was too long, fouling the shell on the end of either one or the other plates, |I couldn't make it fit. it is actually slightly longer then the OEM snare wire by about 3/16" . I also fitted a 12" set to a 13" piccolo and THAT sounds fantastic - and again, its a rather inexpensive Chinese made birch drum. So your experiment is definitely valid. I'm gonna file down the corners on both plates of the 14" snare wire, to get clearance from the bed, but I'm still thinking I should replace it with the 13" which I still have. Thanks for your efforts on this guys, I'm in violent agreement with you!!
i bought a older Gretsch snare and it had 13 inch wires and i was disappointed at first but it sounded fine , until i went to change the head and found that it was out of round it is metal so i should be able to bend it back in shape , great videos keep them coming !!
I love it! I never even thought of doing this, but I can hear the change. I am going to try it out today. I have done some experimentation with different snare wires, and I think there is an incredibly wide range of diversity just within the different types of wires. This adds another dimension.
Great video, no one ever talks about trying this. I think the 13’s sound better IMO. Will definitely try it
I found that Cody's method of equally measuring the snare side head from the head to the top of the rim makes the biggest difference. I use 14-inch Canopus Vintage Dry wires, but regardless of wires, I get snare wire sound with soft hits near the edge AND a fully breathable sound with hard centered hits. Depending on my top head tuning (and a well lubricated snare wire adjuster), I only have to tighten up the wires until it physical stops, as in finger tightening tom lugs. Cody's bottom head tuning technique has a much greater and healthier impact on the sound than any wire type, brand, or length. I swear by it. That's my comment today. Still, this video is continued to push boundaries. I love it! Keep up the good work! Thank you always, Cody!
Man, this is beautiful. So glad it’s working so well for you! And I agree with your sentiments about the overall impact, it was a profound thing to discover and really changed my perspective too. Cheers!! -Cody
@@SoundsLikeADrum Now that I think about it, there are three other benefits to the snare side head leveling technique. I used to have the snare side head pitched to 395Hz (just under the max 400Hz recommended by Tunebot) to get a crisp sound. Now I'm around 365-370Hz average. So the 3 benefits to leveling are:
1. Not having to choke the bottom head. It can breath with tone. The crispness comes from the wires laying completely flush from end to end.
2. Sympethetic buzz is reduced greatly because the flush wires are being dampened equally across the head. No need to choke the wires as many would do to get rid of buzzing. Even next to the bass amp, it's very minimal. And it's not a factor in how I tune my toms.
3. It gets rid of the "boww" sound in both the drum itself and the wires. The wires act as natural dampener to unwanted overtones, yet lets my brass shell resonate tone. I have a tight batter head and still get crisp snare response at the edges because nothing has to be super tight on the bottom. The wires and bottom head are also free to work together well during heavy backbeats. The dynamic range of my drum is maximized. My sticks are the only thing that will activate the wires. Period. The entire drum is balanced tonally thanks to leveling. I only use half a Moongel on top.
Cheers!
I'll give 13 on 14 drum a go. I love to experiment. Thanks!!
It makes me wonder about those times I played a snare (not mine - one provided by the venue or the studio) that had a great dynamic sound… next time I’ll have to turn it over and look. 😁
I just got a Well's custom snare made of steam-bent Cherry wood from a consignment shop. We checked it out & I love it. It was used by one person. Someone taped the wires to the bottom head before I got it; I can tell from the sticky residue when using a drum dial. Now I like the Deep Vintage batter head, so I'm only replacing the reso & wires. Well, it's a 14" snare, & I only have 1 new spare of snare wires -- the 13" Puresound Equalizers. Now I'm not so worried about the mismatch. I'll try to fit them on. :) Thanks.
I had a set of 13" 36 strand snare wires on a 14 inch drum for a year or more.. I honestly had no idea they were "the wrong size" until I went to replace my bottom head. so I got new 14 wires and didn't like them as much. I detune my batter head a lot and tune up my Reso for sensitivity and love the wires tight. with the 13'' wires I could get the sound I prefer and with the 14's it was simply choked out. I've since done this for my 13'' drum, it now has 12'' wires
I recently changed out the snare wires on a '58 Super Classic snare. I'm sure you know the snare wires, on one side, extend beyond the snare bed and bearing edge and attach to the strainer with a screw. The wires it came with were not in the best shape ever and I happened to have another set of vintage Ludwig wires on-hand that had a place for a screw to fit and attach the wires to the SuperClassic strainer. Just like the original wires. However, the replacement Ludwig wires I had were between half an inch to an inch shorter than the original. I was afraid it might sound odd or too far off, but surprisingly they sound amazing and are very sensitive. It's a little strange to see the wires extend beyond the bearing edge on 1 side, then the other side has a few inches before even reaching the bearing edge. Great video!
Great video as always, Cody. Maybe you should do a follow-up on this video and show the differences between different strand sizes. See how a 13" snare wire with 42, 20, and even wires missing from the center. Could make for some interesting results.
Thanks for watching! Comparisons of multiple options like that are on reserve for a future comparison series in a new format. Still a ways off though, as we don’t have the financial support to make it happen. Cheers! -Ben
That Ludwig sounds amazing!
Very helpful for old Pearl free floating snares with marching type strainer. Can be difficult & pricey, limited options, finding replacement snare wires. However, this vid shows not only possible solution but maybe benefits as well trying shorter wire. Thank you & Beautiful playing Cody 🙂
Cool trick with the 13" wires. Gotta give this a try.
thank you so much for posting this. mitch was one of my main influences and one of the reasons I started playing the drums. I really enjoy his style and musicianship. I will go find the website. thanks again!
thanks for the idea! I'm gonna try some 12" Puresound Blaster on my 13x6" Supralite. It should be great for blast beats = )
any update on this? how did it go?
Great demo & explanation. Keep on drumming!
Love every little idea u guys explore
I just stumbled across your video I found it interesting and informative about the difference with using shorter snare wires. This is something I will experiment with. Must say very cool thanks for sharing!
Well, you've actually read my mind, i was thinking that a shorter wires could help with snares that are too thick (like 20 ply or stave shells) and for drums that doesn't have snare beds, the only bad thing on this video is that you didn't took any photograph of how it looks from the downside. Excellent job
Another awesome video
..........Years ago I made a mega wide stringed type snare using the wires from two snares and some brass strips . It was a lot of soldering and effort but not the answer to more snare sound on that particular drum I was working on . Oh well , you live and learn - I was only a youth then .
When I saw the title of this video I first thought of this 14" Keplinger snare that has an off-center snare throw & uses short wires.
Hey, great Episode, like always. I will give a shot to this. Keep up the Good work! Greetz
I need to try this on my main snare drum, I also have a 13 I'm having trouble with the wires. Great suggestion!
My 14" snare drum has 16" snares. Bridges to keep from choking the head. Genius! 1948 Radio King.
Bloody brilliant! Such an obvious tweak but totally overlooked. I am curious if this might also help with the dreaded secondary resonance from other toms activating the snares. Definitely going to try this out. Stuff like this is why I really enjoy your content!
interesting idea of using 13 inch snare wires but you should show the setup of how the 13 inch wires are attached to the snare
They’re mounted the same way as 14” wires. Nothing special.
This is brilliant. Going to definitely try this.
In 1965 my dad bought me a used drum set, they are 1948 - 1952 WFL. In about 1967 I replaced the wires on the Super Classic snare drum. Being a kid, and well, snares are snares, right? I ran down to Manny's in NYC and (accidentally) bought 13" snares. They sounded great, so I left them on...they are still on to this day. I've had more than a couple of sound guys remark on how good that drum sounds! This channel just showed up in my feed and the title caught my attention. Really like your demeanor, and getting right to the point. Subbed and liked.
I need to try that!
Thank you . Learned a.new trick I will try it. Thank you for explanation as always .
Great idea .
I'm going to give that a go.
Thanks Cody 🤘
Great as always!
You sound great man!
Personally I’ve been using smaller wires for a few years because I found the outside of the bottom head would ring abit more throughout certain tonal situations. Nice for a timbale effect to punch through certain asymmetric bass phrases.
This channel is great, I appreciate the info.
I think bringing in another drummer would be a big benefit. You'd hear the drums in front of the kit, or behind... You'd be able to focus on the mechanics of drums more.
Great video. I’ve been thinking about doing this for awhile. Looking forward to trying it
I’m going to try this on my stave snares. They seem to run a bit smaller in diameter than ply drums.
Love
great video guys!
Great knowledge once again, thanks guys 👏🏼
the pursound super30 wires are slightly shorter, and i use them on a couple of my snares. i'd noticed early on that they're also a bit shorter than other 14" wires, and didn't know that it was a variable that affected the drum that way. this was a super neat episode!
Super interesting!
Another great video brilliant channel!
Sounds like a drum to me!
Do they make 12" wires to put on my 13" snare?? Haha. I love that little fire cracker of a snare. 13" diameter, 4" depth. It's a little beast.
They sure do!
I’ve tried short wires, cut down to fewer wires, set wires in staggered directions. There’s a lot of stuff you can do if you’re not afraid of duct tape and cutting wires. I’ve even tried using steel guitar strings.
Hi Cody,
Thanks for everything you’re doing with this channel. I’m learning a lot from your experience. I’ve never tried swapping out shorter snare wires, but what would happen if you used a 13” 30 or 12 strand set?
Thanks.
Cody,how does putting 13" wires on a 14 " snare affect the snare buzz on a 10 or 12 inch tom.Any difference??just curious.
Good question🤔
Very curious to know as well. I hate sympathetic snare buzz, and with 14" wires on a 14" drum, tightening the wires reduces the extra buzz, but it also quickly chokes the drum, and I'm always struggling with the compromise between good drum tone and reduced buzz - pick between drum that sounds good but buzzes like crazy, or a drum that sounds bad but doesn't buzz. But if I can crank 13" wires and it reduces buzz in the same way, without choking the drum, you've given me drum tone gold. Please let us know!!
I've done this, idk fellas, i played with the tuning and was able to get the buzz out.
@@steveskiba8373 You mean you played around with tuning on a 14 with 14 wires and got rid of buzz? Or you used 13 wires on a 14 and played around with tuning to reduce buzz? It would certainly seem that being able to tension the 13 wires tighter without resulting in choking would reduce buzz. One way to find out for sure I guess...
@@davidfrancis5514 yes, i used 13's on a 14. It's actually a cool sound
This is rad, thanks for all the great info you guys put out. I’m definitely going to try this with my 15” snare, curious how my 42 strand 14” wires will make that sucker sound!
Hi,
very interesting stuff! Thank you!
I have yet to play my DIY 16x5.5 snare thru and thru, but first impressions are good. And I couldn't find any 16" snares so I put 15" on it.
Overall it felt like nothing can be tightened too much, not the heads nor the wires. So +1 to your observation. :)
BR, M
And yet another super informative, super smart vid from SLAD. Cody: in your experience, have you found that, overall, 13" wires on a 14" snare drum limit sympathetic buzz for jazz tuned kits?
I'm wondering why you didn't show us what the 13's look like? They sound really good, and I'm going to have to give it a try. Also wondering what might be a good all around number of strands to use, even when using the shorter snare wire length. Thanks and Blessings!
Awesome!!!
Check out Bob gatzen's 'broken opportunity' video... The guys a an absolute wizard on drum tech tips cheers!
damn never thought about this! Great idear
I picked up what I believe to be a 20s-30s Ludwig snare, can't figure out what model it is, and it actually had snares that were a lot longer than the head. like the metal plates that hold the snare wires in place wasn't even touching the head at all, and it sounds awesome, pretty interesting.
id love to actually see a video if you guys can on identifying what model snare drum are. mostly vintage ludwigs.
..........The snare for my main snare drum doesn't anchor with string . It is a set length with eyes on both ends which sit in a mechanism that lifts and lowers both ends at the same time . Tension adjustment is similar to the stringed type . The snare drum was old when I got it , over thirty years ago . I haven't a clue what make it is - no logo - but sounds pretty good .
Just got a Tama Starclassic maple. I'd like to try this for tonal and dynamic change.
Now you have to do the opposite and put 14" wires on a 13" snare.
Also, I'm in a few different drummer groups on Facebook and Reddit and I link to your page regularly to the extent that I should probably just save the URL to a note in my phone at this point. I will gladly keep promoting the work you do.
Haha, probably gonna skip out on that one… 😂 Thanks so much for helping spread the word! We appreciate it.
I prefer snare wires that go beyond the shell, i.e. Radio King, Ludwig Supersensitive, Pearl Free Floating Snare, etc. It resolves these issues and adds sensitivity.
Carter mclean sticks? Nice
One can say that very tightly tensioned snares “choke“ the drum, but there’s another way of looking at it. When we make the snares super tight, we actually start to hear playing details and shell resonance in a different way. Here’s a great example-Roy Haynes, one of the greatest drummers of all time, usually tweaks up his snares REALLY tight. The result: his slick rudimentary approach and crisp press rolls really cut through the music. The effect would be completely different even with slightly looser snares. Find a recording called “Out of the Afternoon” to know what I’m talking about. If you don’t experiment with the full range of snare tension possibilities, the “choke” is on you….sorry, couldn’t resist…
It’s “choke” not “joke” lol
@@johnboyc5 whoops…a little late-night sleep dep there, I think my comment makes a little more sense now…
As a Vistalite player, I'd like to see how you would tackle recording them to get the Primus Brown Album sound where they got them sounding so plastic like!! I got close but something's missing in my mojo and I just need that pinch of spice to unlock the secret!!
How about even smaller snarewires? Maybe a 10” snarewire on a 14” snare?
Also, do think it’s possible that the change in cloth-strap/plastic-strap/cable/string could have an effect on the tension of the smaller snare-wire on a larger drum?
I mistakenly bought a set of 13" wires because it was about time for me to update the wires a while back now (thanks COVID for basically destroying time...what day is it again?) I had on my snare at the time. Of course, I ended up getting another set of 14s because, until watching this video, I didn't really know how to go about it, and although I was actually leaving toward what you all talked about, I had a feeling I was doing something wrong so I scrapped the idea and put a set of 14s on as I mentioned instead. I still have that set of 13s though, so now watching this it's got me thinking of trying to use the 13s. Actually, while typing this, I'm curious to hear what'll happen if I put said 13s on my main snare (that's tuned lower) rather than my aux snare that's up in almost high tensioned piccolo range (even though it's a 14x5.5). I'll just have to experiment then I suppose. Thanks fellas! :)
Is your bass drum beater off-center? Or is that just the camera angle? If it is off-center, why is that?
Hey there! It is a little off of center, you’re right - I’m more concerned with the overall feel of the pedal than I am about the strike location on the kick (I don’t find there to be a dramatic difference between center and 1-2” off), so on this drum having the beater extended where I like it for feel puts it a bit off of center 👍🏻 -Cody
I have heard that you can use shorter snare wires on a drum that has no snarebeds.
Anybody have experiences with this? I am converting a tom to a snaredrum, but would like to not have to cut snarebeds.
This *may* help to mitigate some of the issues you can experience with a drum that lacks snare beds. Your best bet really is to have someone cut beds in the drum though.
i can't believe you didn't show one picture of the bottom of the snare, where wires sit i tuned in to see if a 15 inch snare wire would cover a 14 inch snare drum,
A 15” set of wires will not fit a 14” drum. Even some 14” wires won’t fit a 14” drum depending on actual shell dimensions.
Ok, off to buy shorter wires
Where can I get a 42 strand for a 10” snare drum?! They’re nearly impossible to find online. Theres plenty standard strands out there. I’m doing a custom build & it’s so frustrating not finding what I’m looking for!!
Great video- thank you. please take care of your left shoulder...
Thanks for watching! Shoulder is doing fine but thanks for your concern.
Do you guys ever run into trouble if the standard 14” is so long it almost touches the edge? Also I noticed sometimes the middle of the wires near the center of the drum are laying nice and flush and they lift up a touch near the edge near the strainer and butt plate. Do you think I should aim to get them flush across the whole drum when engaged. I’d assume so. It mainly just a small gap near the very edge
Now I wonder what happens with even smaller, for example 12" wires on a 14" drum.
Beautiful sounding hi hats. What model and size? Great video as always. Many thanks
Thanks- all gear is detailed in the video descriptions. These are prototype 15" 'Fat hats' by Zildjian. We've heard rumors that they'll be making these available soon under the Concept Shop line.
I'm curious why you didn't turn the drum over to show the wires, and how they were positioned.
Wasn’t really different/unique- they’re centered as wires should be. If you check our Instagram you’ll see photos of the bottom though.